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world_n catholic_a church_n visible_a 2,933 5 9.1820 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01336 An ansvver of a true Christian to the proude challenge of a counterset Catholike. By VVilliam Fulke Doctor in diuinitie; Two treatises written against the papistes. Part 1 Fulke, William, 1538-1589.; Albin de Valsergues, Jean d', d. 1566. Notable discourse. 1577 (1577) STC 11459; ESTC S122230 76,157 126

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martyribus_fw-la sed_fw-la
say_v he_o can_v err_v where_o he_o can_v not_o err_v than_o this_o proposition_n be_v false_a the_o pope_n can_v not_o err_v so_o one_o proposition_n shall_v be_v both_o true_a and_o false_a which_o be_v impossible_a likewise_o if_o he_o hold_v that_o hold_v that_o the_o council_n can_v not_o err_v and_o the_o council_n itself_o confess_v it_o that_o it_o may_v err_v gentle_a master_n n._n reconcile_v i_o these_o together_o which_o concern_v a_o case_n that_o have_v be_v in_o practice_n and_o still_o be_v in_o the_o papistry_n and_o may_v here_o trouble_v a_o man_n conscience_n that_o will_v believe_v your_o church_n and_o if_o he_o have_v any_o wit_n restrain_v he_o for_o ever_o come_v into_o your_o church_n if_o you_o can_v not_o untie_v this_o knot_n nor_o wind_v yourself_o out_o of_o this_o maze_n unless_o you_o will_v be_v still_o obstinate_a it_o be_v wisdom_n for_o you_o to_o recant_v the_o 18._o article_n have_v but_o one_o demand_n i_o demand_n whether_o they_o be_v ever_o 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sententijs_fw-la esse_fw-la contrarium_fw-la that_o be_v we_o believe_v that_o what_o so_o ever_o the_o apostle_n have_v teach_v we_o according_a to_o the_o foresay_a rule_n be_v sufficient_a in_o so_o much_o that_o in_o no_o wise_a we_o think_v that_o to_o be_v catholic_a which_o shall_v appear_v to_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o sentence_n before_o determine_v by_o this_o you_o may_v see_v that_o chrysostome_n think_v it_o not_o sufficient_a to_o have_v the_o name_n of_o catholic_a for_o he_o judge_v nothing_o to_o be_v catholic_a in_o deed_n that_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o rule_n ground_v in_o the_o write_n of_o the_o apostle_n wherefore_o how_o so_o ever_o you_o boast_v of_o the_o honourable_a name_n of_o catholic_a except_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o your_o opinion_n agree_v with_o the_o scripture_n they_o be_v not_o catholic_a in_o deed_n by_o chrysostom_n judgement_n s._n augustine_n also_o in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr genese_n ad_fw-la literam_fw-la imperfecto_fw-la cap._n 1._o 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of_o god_n his_o word_n neither_o yet_o be_v disperse_v over_o all_o the_o world_n but_o contain_v in_o a_o corner_n of_o europa_n be_v not_o by_o s._n augustine_n rule_n the_o catholic_a church_n furthermore_o s._n augustine_n contra_fw-la epistolam_fw-la fundamenti_fw-la cap._n 4._o against_o the_o manichee_n plain_o declare_v how_o far_o forth_o not_o only_o the_o name_n of_o catholic_a but_o also_o how_o far_o universal_o consent_n succession_n antiquity_n be_v to_o be_v allow_v ut_fw-la ergo_fw-la hanc_fw-la omittam_fw-la sapientiam_fw-la etc_n etc_n therefore_o to_o omit_v this_o wisdom_n which_o you_o do_v believe_v to_o be_v in_o the_o catholic_a church_n there_o be_v many_o other_o thing_n which_o may_v hold_v i_o most_o righteous_o in_o her_o bosom_n the_o consent_n of_o people_n and_o nation_n hold_v i_o the_o authority_n begin_v with_o miracle_n nourish_v with_o hope_n increase_v with_o charity_n confirm_v by_o antiquity_n do_v hold_v i_o the_o succession_n of_o priest_n from_o the_o very_a seat_n of_o peter_n the_o apostle_n unto_o who_o our_o lord_n after_o his_o resurrection_n commit_v his_o sheep_n to_o be_v feed_v even_o unto_o this_o present_a bishopric_n do_v hold_v i_o last_o of_o all_o that_o very_a name_n of_o catholic_a do_v hold_v i_o which_o name_n not_o without_o a_o cause_n this_o church_n alone_o have_v so_o obtain_v among_o so_o many_o heresy_n that_o whereas_o all_o heretic_n will_v be_v call_v catholic_n yet_o when_o a_o stranger_n shall_v ask_v where_o man_n meet_v at_o the_o catholic_a church_n none_o of_o the_o heretic_n dare_v show_v he_o either_o their_o principal_a temple_n or_o house_n all_o this_o you_o will_v say_v make_v exceed_v much_o for_o we_o yea_o but_o hear_v that_o which_o follow_v apud_fw-la vos_fw-la autem_fw-la ubi_fw-la nihil_fw-la horum_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la i_o invitet_fw-la ac_fw-la teneat_fw-la sola_fw-la personat_fw-la veritatis_fw-la pollicitatio_fw-la quae_fw-la quidem_fw-la si_fw-la tam_fw-la 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congregation_n which_o they_o can_v
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the_o gift_n of_o prophecy_n the_o gift_n of_o heal_n etc_n etc_n but_o there_o be_v other_o prerogative_n of_o god_n his_o spirit_n that_o be_v necessary_a for_o the_o salvation_n of_o god_n his_o elect_a as_o the_o gift_n of_o understanding_n the_o gift_n of_o faith_n the_o spirit_n of_o adoption_n etc_n etc_n and_o these_o the_o spouse_n of_o christ_n have_v never_o want_v wherefore_o if_o you_o will_v be_v partaker_n of_o those_o benefit_n which_o be_v receive_v in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n you_o must_v forsake_v your_o romish_a religion_n and_o recant_v the_o 25._o article_n have_v 2._o demand_n 1_o show_v i_o that_o the_o church_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o christian_a man_n stay_n in_o all_o trouble_n and_o tempest_n of_o doctrine_n may_v become_v so_o hide_v or_o so_o close_a that_o no_o man_n can_v find_v she_o the_o reader_n must_v not_o be_v offend_v with_o i_o for_o any_o tedious_a repetition_n of_o my_o answer_n see_v you_o geve_v the_o occasion_n by_o propound_v your_o demand_n so_o often_o this_o demand_n have_v a_o false_a principle_n that_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o be_v a_o christian_a man_n only_a stay_n in_o all_o trouble_n and_o tempest_n of_o doctrine_n for_o when_o soever_o any_o such_o tempest_n do_v arise_v there_o be_v as_o great_a question_n and_o doubt_n of_o the_o church_n as_o there_o be_v controversy_n of_o the_o doctrine_n for_o as_o every_o heretic_n challenge_v unto_o himself_o the_o truth_n of_o opinion_n so_o also_o do_v he_o challenge_v the_o possession_n of_o the_o church_n so_o that_o the_o church_n be_v always_o in_o as_o great_a question_n as_o the_o doctrine_n and_o then_o be_v it_o to_o be_v seek_v out_o and_o try_v only_o by_o the_o scripture_n as_o we_o have_v declare_v at_o large_a in_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o 4._o article_n 2._o demand_n second_o whereas_o you_o demand_n whether_o she_o can_v be_v so_o hide_v or_o close_o that_o no_o man_n can_v find_v she_o because_o i_o have_v answer_v to_o this_o 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credere_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la and_o credere_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la be_v all_o one_o in_o signification_n in_o deed_n if_o the_o word_n be_v credo_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la catholicae_fw-la in_o the_o dative_a case_n this_o interpretation_n may_v take_v place_n but_o when_o it_o be_v in_o the_o accusative_a case_n credo_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la catholicam_fw-la a_o boy_n that_o will_v construe_v it_o otherwise_o than_o thus_o i_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a church_n be_v worthy_a to_o have_v a_o dozen_n stripe_n for_o his_o labour_n moreover_o this_o common_a distinction_n of_o credere_fw-la in_o deum_fw-la that_o be_v to_o put_v our_o trust_n in_o god_n credere_fw-la deum_fw-la that_o be_v to_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o god_n and_o credere_fw-la deo_fw-la that_o be_v to_o geve_v credit_n to_o god_n that_o he_o speak_v the_o truth_n plain_o overthrow_v this_o foolish_a and_o false_a interpretation_n for_o we_o say_v not_o credo_fw-la in_o ecclesiam_fw-la that_o be_v i_o put_v my_o whole_a trust_n in_o the_o church_n for_o that_o be_v blasphemy_n against_o god_n in_o who_o only_o we_o must_v believe_v neither_o do_v we_o say_v credo_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la that_o be_v i_o geve_v credit_n to_o the_o church_n as_o though_o she_o shall_v always_o speak_v the_o truth_n but_o we_o say_v and_o confess_v against_o all_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n credo_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la etc_n etc_n that_o be_v i_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v one_o holy_a catholic_a and_o apostolic_a church_n whereof_o i_o be_o a_o member_n etc_n etc_n final_o when_o the_o article_n follow_v be_v speak_v in_o one_o context_v and_o phrase_n it_o can_v not_o be_v choose_v but_o that_o they_o must_v have_v one_o kind_n of_o interpretation_n communionem_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la remissionem_fw-la peccatorum_fw-la carnis_fw-la resurrectionem_fw-la that_o be_v i_o believe_v the_o communion_n of_o saint_n the_o forgiveness_n of_o sin_n the_o resurrection_n of_o the_o body_n etc_n etc_n whereof_o the_o interpretation_n must_v needs_o be_v this_o i_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o communion_n of_o saint_n that_o there_o be_v forgiveness_n of_o sin_n etc_n etc_n even_o so_o i_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v a_o article_n of_o our_o creed_n necessary_a to_o be_v believe_v of_o every_o christian_a man_n but_o to_o believe_v all_o and_o every_o thing_n that_o the_o catholic_a church_n by_o common_a consent_n do_v maintain_v be_v no_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o therefore_o not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n 2_o and_o that_o be_v it_o which_o have_v in_o the_o face_n of_o all_o the_o world_n practise_v preach_v the_o conversion_n of_o nation_n to_o the_o obedience_n of_o the_o gospel_n that_o have_v always_o have_v the_o minister_a of_o sacrament_n the_o hear_n of_o matter_n in_o controversy_n power_n judiciary_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n the_o orderly_a succession_n of_o bishop_n uniformity_n in_o solemn_a ceremony_n unity_n in_o faith_n that_o have_v in_o herself_o all_o holy_a function_n of_o the_o spirit_n as_o work_v of_o miracle_n remission_n of_o sin_n the_o true_a sense_n and_o interpretation_n of_o god_n word_n that_o be_v bewtify_v by_o the_o diversity_n of_o state_n commend_v by_o christ_n in_o the_o gospel_n as_o with_o virgin_n with_o martyr_n with_o confessor_n and_o the_o rest_n because_o these_o colewort_n have_v be_v sodden_a twice_o or_o thrice_o already_o they_o be_v not_o worthy_a to_o be_v show_v in_o several_a disher_n but_o even_o as_o they_o be_v here_o mingle_v all_o together_o in_o a_o hochpotte_n of_o these_o note_n that_o you_o make_v proper_a to_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o it_o have_v be_v declare_v before_o some_o be_v not_o always_o necessary_a in_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o open_o preach_v in_o the_o face_n of_o the_o world_n open_a minister_a of_o sacrament_n and_o execution_n of_o discipline_n these_o be_v not_o to_o be_v require_v in_o a_o persecute_a church_n some_o
8._o demand_n 1_o let_v any_o protestant_n in_o the_o world_n prove_v unto_o i_o that_o their_o church_n can_v right_o be_v call_v catholic_a which_o be_v so_o particular_a that_o no_o man_n alive_a can_v name_v a_o place_n where_o any_o such_o church_n be_v why_o may_v not_o our_o church_n when_o it_o be_v most_o hide_v be_v as_o right_o call_v catholic_a as_o the_o church_n of_o the_o apostle_n when_o it_o be_v so_o particular_a that_o it_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o narrow_a bond_n of_o jury_n for_o it_o be_v not_o call_v catholic_a because_o it_o shall_v be_v every_o where_o for_o that_o it_o never_o be_v nor_o shall_v be_v but_o because_o that_o where_o so_o ever_o it_o be_v in_o part_n it_o be_v one_o body_n of_o christ_n the_o popish_a church_n be_v not_o in_o every_o part_n of_o the_o world_n for_o mahomet_n sect_n be_v in_o the_o great_a part_n many_o country_n be_v idolater_n and_o the_o most_o part_n of_o they_o that_o profess_v the_o name_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o in_o the_o fellowship_n of_o the_o popish_a church_n and_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o no_o man_n alive_a can_v name_v the_o place_n where_o it_o be_v you_o make_v a_o impudent_a lie_n for_o although_o it_o be_v unknown_a to_o the_o papist_n and_o enemy_n thereof_o yet_o be_v it_o know_v to_o the_o true_a member_n thereof_o it_o be_v in_o italy_n when_o marsilius_n of_o milan_n preach_v in_o france_n when_o waldo_n preach_v at_o lion_n and_o there_o about_o in_o england_n when_o wickliff_n teach_v in_o bohemia_n when_o john_n hus_n and_o jeronyme_n of_o prague_n do_v flourish_v 2_o or_o that_o it_o may_v be_v call_v holy_a which_o never_o have_v baptism_n or_o other_o sacrament_n to_o sanctify_v any_o of_o her_o follower_n withal_o it_o have_v the_o spirit_n of_o god_n to_o sanctify_v the_o true_a member_n of_o it_o and_o it_o have_v sacrament_n to_o testify_v the_o same_o also_o do_v not_o the_o bohemian_n baptise_v be_v not_o pauperes_fw-la de_fw-la lugduno_n baptize_v etc_n etc_n but_o if_o you_o count_v their_o baptism_n no_o baptism_n why_o do_v you_o not_o rebaptize_v in_o queen_n mary_n time_n all_o those_o that_o be_v baptize_v by_o our_o church_n in_o king_n edward_n time_n 3_o or_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v one_o which_o as_o soon_o as_o it_o grow_v up_o in_o the_o world_n be_v divide_v into_o so_o many_o sundry_a sect_n none_o of_o we_o will_v grant_v you_o that_o our_o church_n begin_v first_o to_o grow_v when_o it_o be_v last_o bring_v to_o light_n and_o knowledge_n of_o the_o world_n for_o it_o have_v continue_v even_o since_o christ_n but_o if_o there_o arise_v or_o be_v renew_v many_o heresy_n with_o it_o that_o be_v no_o new_a matter_n but_o a_o old_a practice_n of_o the_o devil_n for_o as_o soon_o as_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n begin_v to_o grow_v up_o after_o his_o ascension_n even_o in_o the_o apostle_n time_n there_o be_v many_o sect_n and_o heresy_n as_o the_o jew_n that_o maintain_v the_o law_n they_o that_o deny_v the_o resurrection_n among_o the_o corinthian_n hymenaeus_n and_o philetus_n simon_n magus_n cerinthus_n ebion_n martion_n basilides_n valentinus_n carpocrates_n etc_n etc_n so_o that_o there_o be_v many_o more_o heresy_n at_o the_o first_o preach_v of_o the_o gospel_n in_o and_o immediate_o after_o the_o apostle_n time_n then_o at_o the_o last_o restore_n of_o the_o public_a preach_v thereof_o unto_o the_o world_n in_o our_o day_n and_o yet_o the_o apostolic_a church_n be_v one_o church_n and_o so_o be_v we_o at_o this_o day_n one_o and_o the_o same_o 4_o or_o that_o it_o may_v be_v call_v apostolic_a which_o can_v never_o count_v by_o orderly_a sucession_n from_o any_o apostle_n or_o apostolic_a man._n you_o be_v never_o able_a to_o answer_v the_o argument_n that_o be_v bring_v to_o prove_v that_o peter_n be_v never_o bishop_n at_o rome_n and_o then_o where_o be_v all_o your_o brag_n of_o apostolic_a sea_n and_o succession_n etc_n etc_n but_o be_v it_o that_o peter_n be_v there_o except_o you_o prove_v succession_n of_o doctrine_n and_o faith_n as_o well_o as_o succession_n of_o man_n your_o succession_n be_v not_o worth_a a_o straw_n and_o our_o church_n which_o hold_v all_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o none_o other_o but_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n shall_v be_v true_o call_v and_o find_v the_o apostolic_a church_n when_o your_o with_o all_o her_o succession_n of_o antichristes_n whore_n whoremonger_n heretic_n sodomite_n blasphemer_n conjurer_n etc_n etc_n be_v apostatical_a rather_o than_o apostolical_a 5_o or_o the_o secret_a base_a contemptible_a deface_v and_o disorder_a congregation_n be_v ever_o of_o that_o majesty_n that_o it_o may_v require_v the_o obedience_n of_o all_o nation_n how_o base_a and_o contemptible_a soever_o it_o be_v in_o the_o eye_n of_o the_o wicked_a despiser_n of_o it_o yet_o do_v it_o not_o only_o require_v but_o also_o subdue_v all_o nation_n to_o the_o obedience_n of_o the_o faith_n so_o many_o as_o be_v ever_o subdue_v in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o first_o christian_n emperor_n and_o before_o and_o sense_n when_o it_o be_v most_o deface_v by_o the_o tyranny_n of_o antichrist_n it_o be_v of_o such_o majesty_n that_o it_o both_o require_v and_o obtain_v the_o obedience_n of_o the_o realm_n of_o bohemia_n and_o in_o process_n of_o time_n have_v obtain_v the_o obedience_n of_o almost_o all_o the_o nation_n of_o europe_n if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n retain_v the_o like_a majesty_n why_o do_v it_o not_o now_o require_v the_o like_a obedience_n of_o all_o nation_n both_o christian_n and_o turk_n you_o will_v say_v it_o require_v but_o it_o can_v not_o obtain_v even_o so_o i_o answer_v of_o our_o church_n it_o have_v always_o be_v worthy_a to_o require_v but_o it_o have_v not_o please_v god_n that_o it_o shall_v always_o obtain_v 6_o or_o that_o it_o be_v ever_o able_a to_o gather_v general_a counsel_n the_o four_o best_a general_n counsel_n be_v gather_v by_o our_o church_n and_o the_o emperor_n that_o be_v defender_n of_o the_o same_o and_o not_o by_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n neither_o be_v they_o president_n in_o they_o as_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o other_o man_n be_v author_n of_o the_o canon_n or_o distinction_n as_o of_o the_o nicene_n alexander_n bishop_n of_o constantinople_n of_o the_o constantinopolitan_a nectarius_n bishop_n of_o the_o ephesine_n cyrillus_n bishop_n of_o alexandria_n of_o the_o chalcedonense_n anatolius_n of_o constantinople_n etc_n etc_n and_o in_o other_o general_a counsel_n where_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n be_v precedent_n i_o answer_v as_o john_n patriarch_v of_o antioch_n do_v in_o the_o council_n of_o basile_n his_o presidence_n be_v honoraria_fw-la ad_fw-la beneplacitum_fw-la concilij_fw-la eye_n data_fw-la non_fw-la authoritativa_fw-la nisi_fw-la ex_fw-la concessione_fw-la aut_fw-la permissione_n habente_fw-la vim_fw-la concessionis_fw-la aut_fw-la ex_fw-la tolerantia_fw-la that_o be_v for_o honour_n sake_n grant_v to_o they_o so_o long_o as_o it_o shall_v please_v the_o council_n and_o not_o of_o authority_n but_o either_o by_o grant_n or_o permission_n be_v of_o the_o force_n of_o a_o grant_n or_o else_o of_o sufferance_n and_o i_o conclude_v as_o he_o do_v the_o pope_n be_v never_o precedent_n either_o of_o honour_n or_o of_o authority_n but_o by_o the_o grant_n or_o permission_n of_o the_o council_n and_o how_o be_v the_o popish_a church_n able_a to_o gather_v general_a counsel_n at_o this_o day_n who_o will_v come_v at_o her_o call_n except_o a_o few_o spaniard_n and_o a_o jolly_a company_n of_o buckram_n bishop_n of_o italy_n general_a counsel_n of_o all_o the_o world_n can_v never_o be_v gather_v but_o either_o when_o there_o be_v a_o monarchy_n or_o else_o which_o be_v not_o to_o be_v look_v for_o that_o all_o the_o prince_n of_o the_o world_n will_v consent_v together_o 7_o or_o exercise_n discipline_n because_o this_o demand_n have_v be_v answer_v so_o often_o before_o i_o will_v say_v the_o less_o now_o the_o free_a course_n of_o discipline_n in_o time_n of_o persecution_n may_v be_v hinder_v as_o it_o be_v in_o s._n cyprian_n time_n when_o the_o member_n of_o the_o church_n be_v disperse_v but_o the_o power_n of_o discipline_n have_v always_o remain_v and_o when_o occasion_n serve_v be_v execute_v as_o the_o bohemian_n excommunicate_v the_o adamite_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n punish_v they_o by_o the_o sword_n 8_o or_o that_o these_o name_n proper_a by_o scripture_n and_o doctor_n of_o the_o true_a church_n can_v be_v ever_o challenge_v by_o any_o right_n to_o their_o say_a congregation_n as_o many_o of_o these_o name_n as_o be_v proper_a to_o the_o church_n by_o scripture_n or_o doctor_n agree_v with_o scripture_n have_v be_v always_o just_o challenge_v of_o right_a to_o pertain_v to_o our_o church_n and_o congregation_n i_o mean_v these_o 1_o corpus_fw