him part of his substance and kept parte vnto him selfe when as the substance of the Father is indiuisible c. Goe your wayes now and perswade vs that your church can not interprete any sentence of the scripture falsely when the Laterane Councell which is your represented church hath thus both falsefied and falsely interpreted this scripture Perswade men that they may safely leane to the interpretation of your church when among a thousand and three hundred Prelates gathered canonically in a Councell not one was founde that coulde espie such grosse abusing of the worde of God but let it passe in a Canon vnder the name of the whole Councell Perswade men that in all controuersies condemning of errors they must be ruled by the determination of your Church When the Fathers of the Laterane Councell can not confute the error of Ioachim Abbot concerning the Diuinitie of Christ but by falsefying and false interpreting of scripture These few examples of an infinite numbre I haue set forth because they are sufficient both to satisfie your chalenge and to perswade the simple that the church of Rome may falsely interprete the scripture which you woulde beare them in hande were impossible 3 Or induce any error among the people THe true and onely church of God is so guided by God his spirite and directed by his worde that she can not induce any damnable error to continue Yet as it is declared before she hath no such priuilege graunted but that she may be deceiued in some thinges for her knowledge is vnperfect and her prophecying is vnperfect 1. Cor. 13. And it is true that S. Augustine sayeth euen the whole church is taught to saye Forgeue vs our trespasses And if generall Councells be the church represented as you Papistes doe teache S. Augustine plainely affirmeth that they may erre De Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. Quis autem nesciat sanctam scripturam Canonicam tam veteris quam noui Testamenti c. And who knoweth not that the holy Canonicall scripture as well of the olde as of the newe Testament is conteined within her certeine boundes and that it is so preferred before all later writinges of byshops that of it no man may in any wise doubt or dispute whether it be true or whether it be right what so euer is knowen to be written therin and that the writings of bishops which haue bene written or are now in writinge maye be reprehended if they haue gonne astraie any thing from the trueth both by the saying that is perhaps more wise of any man that is more skilfull in that matter and by the more graue authoritie and wisedom of other better learned bishops and also by Councells and that euen those Councells which are gathered in euery region or prouince ought to geue place without all doubt to the authoritie of the generall Councells which are gathered out of all the Christian worlde and that euen the very generall Councells may often be amended the former by the later when as by any triall of thinges that is opened which before was shut and that is knowen which before was hidden without any swelling of wicked pride without any stubbernesse of arrogance without any contention of peuishe enuie with holy Humility with Catholike peace with Christian charity Thus farre S. Augustine which cleerely affirmeth that generall Councells may often erre which maye often be amended but that the authority of God his worde is to be preferred before the writings of all Doctors and Decrees of all Councells and that it onely can not erre The Councell of Carthage the 3. ca. 23. determined that all prayers at the altar shoulde be directed onely to the Father and not to the Sonne or the holy Ghost whether this be an error to define that it is vnlawfull to pray to God the Sonne and God the holy Ghost let euery man iudge But you will except that this was a prouinciall Synode and not a generall Councell But I aunswere you it hath the authoritie of a generall Councell because it was confirmed in the sixt generall Councell holden at Constantinople in Trullo And as for the Popish church that it maye erre what neede we better proofe than the prayer which it maketh after the ending of euery generall Councell Precamur scilicet vt ignorantiae parcas errori indulgeas that is we praye truely that thou wouldest spare our ignorance pardō our error And againe Et quia conscientia remordente tabescimus ne aut ignorantia nos traxerit in errorem aut praeceps forsitan voluntas impulerit a Iustitia declinare ob hoc te poscimus te rogamus vt si quid offensionis in hac Concilij celebritate attraximus condonare remissibile facere digneris that is And because we are greued with remorce of conscience lest either ignorance haue drawen vs into error or perhaps rash will hath driuen vs to decline from Iustice therefore we praye thee we beseech thee that if we haue drawen vnto vs any offence in the celebration of this Councell thou wouldest vouche safe to pardon and to make it remissible c. If it be impossible for the generall Councell to erre what neede they pray to God to pardon their error and when their owne conscience condemneth them and compelleth them to confesse and that before God that they may erre what impudence is it in any man to contend that they can not erre Furthermore the second Councell of Nice determined that Angels and soules of men had bodies were visible and circumscriptible and therefore might be painted and this it affirmeth to be the iudgement of the Catholike church Con. Nice 2. Actione 5. If this be not to induce an error to make men beleue that Angells and spirites haue bodies visible and circumscriptible there was neuer anye error sence the worlde beganne Finally when they say the Pope can not erre they acknowledge that such generall Councells as condemned Popes for heretikes did erre as the sixt generall Councell of Constantinople in Trullo which condemned and accursed Pope Honorius for an heretike Actione 13. Euen as Pope Leo the 2. did also as appeareth in his epistle to the Emperour Constantine Also the Councell of Constance did erre which condemned Pope Iohn the 23. for denying the immortality of the soule and the resurrection of the body Session 11. which Councell Pope Iohn him selfe affirmed to be most holy and that it coulde not erre Session 12. And the Councell of Basile did erre which deposed Pope Eugenius the 4. Session 34. the same Councell being confirmed by Pope Nicolas the 5. Session 43. If you say these two last Councells did not erre in condemning and deposing these Popes Then the great generall and OEcumenicall Councell of Ferraria and Florence did erre in disallowing the determination of these Councells Thus it is manifest that the Romish church which they them selues confesse to be represented in a generall Councell may erre which hath so often
them that were baptized by you we maye likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments because you doe not rebaptize them that are baptized of vs nor marrie againe those that are married in our Church wheras you compt mariage to be a sacrament so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church than your accepting of our doinges doth allow our Church And as touching the sacrament of Baptisme because you reteyne the Institution in baptizing in the name of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost and in asmuch as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister but of God we receiue it as of other heretikes which likewise reteine the Institution Wherefore there is no cause why you shoulde thinke we allow yours to be the true Church thereby So that there is good cause why you shoulde recant The 14. article hath 5. demandes 1 Also I demande what furniture or commodity in seruing God the Christianity of any age or any part of Christendome had euer by your Congregations THe seruice of God hath small neede of furniture in outwarde thinges for God being a spirite is not worshipped with outward pompe but with spirituall and inwarde reuerence And as for other furniture that is necessary was decreed to the Church by the Emperour Constantine and his successors that were of our Church before the reuelatiō of Antichrist Notwithstāding the Church was in better case before such furniture was graunted than it was since Therefore it is a small reason to chalenge the Church of Christ by outwarde furniture 2 VVhat Churches did you builde for your assemblies and seruice OVr assemblies were kept in secret places long time after Christes Ascension in most cuntries that were subiect to the Romane empire Wherefore the building of materiall churches proueth nothing at all the builders to be members of the mystical Church that is the body of Christ Howbeit in such realmes and cuntries where the faith of Christ was receiued by publike authoritie as in this lande of Brytaine there were churches builded as our Chronicles declare And when Constantinus had geuen peace to the Church he also builded Oratories and great Synagoges called Basilicas for our assemblies and seruice 3 VVhat Bishoprickes for the gouernment of the Church did you finde AS the church continued longe without materiall churches so also without large possessions for the lyuing of bishops yet in Brytish Church our histories make mention that the possessions and places of the Pagane Flamines and Archiflamines were conuerted to the vse of Ecclesiastical bishops and archbishops so soon as Lucius the king receiued the faith Also the same histories do testifie that when Augustine came into Britayn there were still 7. bishops and one archbishop among the Britaines And in the Romane Empier Constantinus and other Christian Emperors appointed great possessions for the mainteyning of the ministers of the Church 4 VVhat Vniuersities Schooles or Colledges did you euer erect THe Church of God hath alwayes had schooles or Vniuersities for the mainteinance of godly learning For the first Colledges of monkes in solitary places were nothing els but Colledges of studentes that were after as occasion serued taken to serue in the Church as appereth by Chrysostome in his booke De Sacerdotio where he sheweth that Basilius who was a Monke with him was taken by violence and made a minister of the church as he him selfe was afterwarde Also in the bishops house was a colledge of studentes and our histories testifie that at Bangor in Wales was a great Vniuersitie of learned men Also of late dayes you may heare that diuerse Vniuersities Scholes and Colleges are erected by Protestants in Germanie and other contries that haue receiued the gospel As at Wittemberge Geneua Zuriche Conigsperge in Prussia c. 5 Name one Church not builded in all fashions as well for the making of the chancells the forme of the aultars the vse of the chalices the signification of the vestiments as also for the speciall intent of the builders thereof Name one of them in the whole Church of Christ either erected for your Faith Church seruice or not prepared in all sorts for catholike practises Proue vnto me that any of all those thinges were euer prouided for any other seruice and Religion then ours or that they be monuments of any other Fayth and Church then the common Catholike and I recant HEre are many wordes to litle purpose What if it were graunted that all churches that now remaine were builded by Papistes and for popish vses what had you wonne thereby The same chalenge might the Idolaters haue made to the Apostles Shew vs a temple in all the worlde that was not builded by Idolaters and to mainteyne Idolatrie Certeinly they could shew none when the Temple of Ierusalem was destroyed But for all your bragges we are able to shewe that such Churches as were builded by true Christians were not builded to such ende as yours are for they were all builded in the honour of God and the most of yours in the honour of creatures for wheras you haue one Church in the honour of Christ you haue neare a thousand in the honour of Sainctes For Basilius magnus in his 141. epistle proueth the holy Ghost to be God because he hath a Temple For Omne Templum Dei Templum est Euery temple is the temple of god Also Didymus in his booke De spiritu sancto which S. Ieronym translateth vseth the same reason and to the same purpose S. Augustine in the same matter is very plentifull as in his booke De vera Religione cap. 55 speaking of the Sainctes he sayth Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute nec eis templa construimus c. Wherfore we honour them with loue and not with seruice neither doe we build temples vnto them for they wil not be so honored of vs because they know that we our selues when we are good are the temples of the highest In this saying beside his iudgement for building of temples note that he will not haue Sainctes to be honored with seruice which he calleth seruitus and is the same that dulia is contrary to the Papistes which will worship them with seruice called dulia or seruitus Also in his 174 epistle to Pascentius he sayth the holy Ghost could not haue our bodies to be tēples except he were God And in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium cap. 56. he sayth howe should he not be God which hath a temple Also in the 8. booke cap. 27. De ciuitate Dei. Nec tamen nos ijsdem martyribus templa c. he sayeth Christians builde no temples vnto Martyrs which were to make them gods And in the 22 booke cap. 10. De ciuitate Dei. Nos autem Martyribus nostris non templa sicut dijs sed memorias sicut hominibus mortuis quorum apud Deum viuunt spiritus fabricamus Nec ibi erigimus altaria in quibus sacrificemus martyribus sed
saying he coulde erre where he can not erre then this proposition is false the Pope can not erre so one proposition shal be both true and false which is impossible Likewise if he holde that hilde that the councell can not erre and the councell it selfe confesseth it that it may erre Gentle maister N. reconcile me these together which concerne a case that hath bene in practise and still is in the Papistrie and maye here trouble a mans conscience that woulde beleue your church and if he haue any wit restraine him for euer comming into your church If you can not vntie this knot nor winde your selfe out of this maze vnlesse you will be still obstinate it were wisedome for you to recant The 18. article hath but one demande I demande whether they were euer of the true Catholike church which either tooke to them selues newe names of religion according to the calling of any secte maister or liked not so well the name of Catholike or Christian as of their seuerall teachers as to be called of Arius Arians or of Caluine Caluinistes or of Luther Lutheranes or Protestants c. if any man therefore can proue vnto me that men which haue chosen to themselues to declare their diuersitie of faith from the common knowen Catholike church such newe names shoulde be of the Catholike church I recant I Aunswere that they which can not be content with the name of Christians but chose vnto them selues newe names after the calling of their secte maisters as Arrians Pelagians Franciscanes Dominicanes Benedictines Gilbertines Augustinians Scotistes Thomistes Albertistes c. are none of the Catholike church But the true Christians which desier most of all to be so called and compting it a most honorable name without chosing any other name be of the Catholike church although in reproch they be called of you Caluinistes and Lutherans As for the name of Protestants came first of them that made protestatiō against the decree of Spires in Germanie and from that time hath bene attributed to the professors of the Gospell which name they doe not so much delight in as you doe in the name of Papistes Therefore if nothing els do let you but the name there is no cause why you shoulde not recant The 19. article hath but one demande Againe if these which by the common calling and iudgement of Christian people be named and commonly taken for heretikes haue not in all ages proued them selues in the ende to be heretikes in deede notwithstanding their craking of Gods worde and therefore that the Protestants being so taken and called proue not so in deede I recant THose that by true Christians haue bene called and counted for heretikes haue proued so in deede and therefore the Papistes being called and counted heretikes of true Christians without doubt are heretikes in deede But it hath not bene alwayes true that they which of the people commonly called Christians were called and taken for heretikes proued so in deede For the true Christians of the Arrian people that were called Christian people were called and taken for heretikes and in reproch were called Homousians and Athanasians yet they proued and were in deede true Christians and no heretikes So the true Christians at this day being of the Papistes which after a sorte are named Christians called heretikes and in reproch Protestants and Caluinistes in that their faith agreeth with the worde of God proue them selues in deede to be true Christians no heretikes Therefore you haue bound your selfe to recant The 20. article hath 3. demandes 1 Likewise if any man can proue vnto me that either those be not true Christians which by the consent of nations and by olde prescription of so manye yeares as be sith their conuersion be and euer hath bene called Catholikes YOu your selues will not accompt the Grecians for true Christians and yet by consent of nations and prescription of as many yeares as you can prescribe they be and euer haue bene called Catholikes if you say they are not called by you I aunswere no more are you so called by thē And sence the time that you departed from them as great a portion of the worlde and as many nations haue called them Catholikes as you are able to shewe on your side Therfore either you must compte them true Christians or els you must graunt that they which haue ben long called Catholikes are not alwayes true Christians 2 Or that those can be any true members or children of the Catholike church which do mislike and mistrust so farre-forth these holy names as wel of Church as Catholike that they haue turned thē into Congregations and Gospellers and Protestants and such like HE is a foolish sophister that reasoneth from names to things as you doe most vainely and childishly we mislike the names of Church Catholike because we do sometimes vse these names Congregation and Gospellers or Protestantes and therefore be no true members of the Catholike church we neither mislike nor mistrust those names as you sclaunder vs neither doe we boast and trust onely in these names without the thinges them selues as you doe and as your forefathers the wicked Iewes crying the Temple of the Lorde the Temple of the Lorde the Temple of the Lorde when they had nothing lesse than the Temple of the Lord but rather a denne of theues So you crie the Catholike church the Catholike church the Catholike church when you haue nothing in deede but the synagoge of Sathan But because you make so much of these two names Church and Catholike let vs see what great mysteries are conteined in them This worde Church commeth of the Greeke worde Kyriaka in Latine Dominica in English the Lorde his house for so were they wonte in olde time to call their temples or oratories so that this worde church proprely signifieth a materiall temple and can not signifie the fellowship and communion of Christian people but by a figure Therefore if we other whiles vse this worde Congregation which can not denie but it is the English worde of this Greeke name Ecclesia that the Scripture vseth and signifieth without figure the same thing that this word Church doth by a figure you may be ashamed if you were not impudent to finde any fault with vs for so doinge Likewise this worde Catholike commeth of the Greeke worde and signifieth Vniuersall or ouer all which worde the common people doth not vnderstande Therefore we expounde it plainly and saye that the Catholike Church is the Congregation of Christ dispersed ouer all the worlde What reasonable man can reprehende this doinge and not rather your folly which thinke it inoughe if the people can prate like parates Catholike Catholike and vnderstande not what Catholike meaneth Thus as we doe not refuse these wordes Catholike and Church because they are commonly receiued so doe we interprete them by Vniuersall and Congregation because they are not else commonly vnderstanded 3 If therefore any thing can proue our
true Church better than the honorable name of Catholike or more condemne them to be out of Christes church thā that not only the Christiā worlde geueth it not to them but they in a name do refuse the same them selues then do I recant HEre you bewraye your selfe euidently and acknowledge that we doe not sclaunder you when we say you boast onely of the Catholike church For you declare plainely that you haue no better argument then the very name of the Catholike Church to proue that you be the Catholike Church if this be the best argument all the rest is litle worth For if the onely name of an honest man is enough to proue an honest man many a knaue may proue him selfe an honest man and if the very name of learning make a learned man many an asse may proue him selfe to be a learned man or if the name of a good Christian proue a man to be a good Christian euery hypocrite may proue him selfe a good Christian Likewise if you haue no greater argument that can more condemne vs then that we are not called the Catholike Church then can you no more condemne vs then Christ and his Apostles that were not onely not called the true Church but also were called heretikes deceiuers by the people of the Iewes which were as rightly called God his people as they that giue you the name of Catholike Church are called the Christian world It is well you haue nothing better to proue your Church then the honorable name of Catholike nor any thing more to condēne our Church then that we are not called Catholike and yet we haue as many nations and more then you haue that by publike authoritie call vs Catholikes and you heretikes although you most shamefully sclaunder vs that we doe refuse the name being offered vnto vs Seeing you boast so much of the name Catholike you shall heare what some of the old writers iudged thereof Chrysostome in an homelie that he writeth of Adam and Eue in the later ende hath these words after he hath tolde them that he hath no neede to repeate such depe questions as those men haue handled which haue fought against heretikes Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secūdum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt vt prorsus opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium that is we beleue that what so euer the Apostles haue taught vs according to the foresayd rules is sufficient in so much that in no wise we thinke that to be Catholike which shall appeare to be contrary to the sentences before determined By this you may see that Chrysostome thought it not sufficient to haue the name of Catholike for he iudged nothing to be Catholike in deede that was contrary to the rule groūded in the writings of the Apostles Wherfore how so euer you boast of the honorable name of Catholike except you can proue that your opinions agree with the Scripture they are not Catholike in deede by Chrysostomes iudgement S. Augustine also in his booke de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholike faith sayth This is an article thereof that we should beleue Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur ex eo quia vniuersaliter perfecta est in nullo claudicat per totum orbem diffusa est That he hath appoynted a mother Church which is called Catholike of this because it is vniuersally perfect halteth in nothing and is dispersed ouer all the worlde S. Augustine here is not content that the Church be onely called Catholike but sheweth when it is that which it is called and therefore the popish Church not being vniuersally perfect as most Papists will confesse that many thinges in their church haue neede of reformation halting in many thinges from the truth of God his worde neither yet being dispersed ouer all the world but conteyned in a corner of Europa is not by S. Augustines rule the Catholike Church Furthermore S. Augustine cōtra Epistolam Fundamēti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainely declareth how farre forth not onely the name of Catholike but also how farre vniuersally consent succession antiquitie are to be allowed Vt ergo hanc omittam sapientiam c. Therefore to omitte this wisedom which you do beleue to be in the Catholike Church there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosome The cōsent of people and nations holdeth me the authoritie begun with miracles nourished with hope encreased with charitie confirmed by antiquitie doth hold me The succession of Priestes from the very seate of Peter the Apostle vnto whom our Lord after his resurrection committed his sheepe to be fedde euen vnto this present bishopricke doth hold me Last of all that very name of Catholike doth hold me which name not without a cause this Church alone hath so obteyned among so many heresies that wheras all heretiks would be called Catholikes yet when a stranger shall aske where men meete at the Catholike Church none of the heretikes dare shew him either their principall temple or house All this you will say maketh exceeding much for vs yea but heare that which followeth Apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit proponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in Catholica teneor that is But among you where there is none of these thinges that may prouoke or holde me there soundeth the onely promise of truth which if it be shewed so manifest that it can not come in doubt is to be preferred before all those thinges by which I am holden in a Catholike Church By this you may plainly see that though consent antiquitie succession and the name of Catholike be good confirmation when they are ioyned with the truth yet when a truth is seuered from them it is more to be regarded then they all it is truth that maketh Catholike to be estemed and not Catholike that giueth authoritie to truth Wherefore seeing it were better to proue your Church to be Catholike then to boast that it is so called to disproue our Church so to be then to say it is not so called The best way for you is to recant The 21. article conteyneth but one demande 1 Moreouer I aske of the Protestants whether in that time in which they holde the true church to haue bene hidden or lost the people that learned this article of their Creede I beleue the Catholike church was bounde to goe from that church which they sawe and taught them both the article and all other thinges touching their faith and by which they were Christened and receyned all other sacraments and commodities of saluation whether they were bounde I say to beleue this vnknowen and close Congregation which they coulde
wheras you say that the popish church practiseth all holy functions that Christ left for the saluation of his Church it is most false for first you doe not preach remission of sinnes in the bloode of Christ onely for either you preach not all or else you preach remission of sinnes in any thing rather then the onely merites of Christ as in mens owne merites workes of supererogation pardons masses beggarly ceremonies as holy water auriculer confession c. Secondly you minister not the Sacraments purely according to Christ his institution but either corrupt and defile them with mans traditiōs as you do Baptisme or else cleane chaūge the vse of them as in the Lordes Supper which you make a Sacrifice an idoll a Priestes breakfast and defraude the people of the one halfe of the sacrament as though you were wiser then he that instituted it in both kindes Thirdly discipline you haue conuerted into tyranny and couetousnes reteyning nothing but the name of it alone Wherefore seeing you exercise no holy function after Christ his institution but cleane contrary to the same and doe obstinately defend the filthy whore of babylon against the cleare light of the Gospell the true spouse of Christ ye shall be damned except you recant The 23. article conteyneth 2. demandes 1 Againe shew me any Church or imagin if you can by good reason a church of Christ in which there is no gathering together for preaching no spirite of prophesying no rodde of correction no order of ministring nor any spirituall functiō that can be named proue me that there should be a true Church for a thousand yeares together and lacked all these thinges YOu would faine haue a great nombre of Articles and therefore you bring in one matter often times in diuers phrase of words that it might seeme a new matter when it hath bene vttered twise or thrise before as this Article is conteined before in the 5.8 and 9. Articles where you shall finde it more largely aunswered But let vs see what this strange demande requireth we must shew him a church or els imagine by good reason a church of Christ without preaching ministring and discipline for a thousand yeares together Although we will not graunt that it hath so longe continued without these exercises yet because you geue vs leaue to imagine we can imagine that it may as well continue without publike preaching ministring and discipline for a thousand yeares as it did for three hundred yeares before Constantine But you will say there was preaching ministring and correcting though it were not knowen to the tyrantes and persecutors so say I vnto you for that thousand veres there was gathering together for preaching ministring and correcting though the Pope and his persecuting Prelates coulde not alwayes see it nor come to the knowledge of it for if they had once intelligence of it they smarted for it as is knowen by the stories of the Waldenses Bohemians c. Furthermore continuall exercise of preaching ministring of sacramentes and executing of discipline are notes of a quiet and peaceable Congregation not of a dispersed persecuted and disquieted Church How often doth S. Cyprian cōplaine that the brethren could not be gathered togither for executing of discipline whereby it is certeyne that likewise they coulde not be gathered togither for other exercises Therefore the intermission of these exercises in a persecuted Church doth not proue the same to be no true Church But where so euer there be two or three gathered togither in the name of Christ there is he in the middest of them But whereas you require the spirite of prophesie except you meane the gift of interpreting the Scriptures the Church in the most quiet and flourishing state may want the spirite of shewing things to come as well as the giftes of tongues healing c. 2 And withall that there was an other vntrue Church which for those many dayes onely practised to the saluation of many all these offices and geue me a good reason why this Church that alwayes hath had these thinges should be a false Church and the other that wanted them to be a true Church and I recant WE vtterly denye that beside the true Church there was an vntrue church that practised those offices to the saluation of any man for once againe I tell you you haue neither the preaching of the word nor ministring of Sacraments nor execution of discipline according to the truth of God his institution but either altogither changed or else greatly corrupted And whereas you say that the popish church onely hath practised these offices I aske you againe whether the Greeke Church be a parte of your Church and whether the Papistes in England be a part of your Church The Grecians you will say are not but the English Papistes are Then haue I founde out by your owne iudgement the Church of the Grecians practising these offices being an vntrue church the church of the English Papistes not practising the same yet graunted of you to be a true Church Therfore you are bound to recant The 24. article conteyneth 10. demandes 1 Moreouer let any man shew how that Church can be the piller of truth which durst not for a thousand yeares clayme either preaching of Gods word or ministring of Sacramēts or shew her selfe against falshood or superstition AS the number of your articles doth draw to an ende so your matter is farre spent and therefore to make vppe your number you must repete one thing twise This demaund is conteined before in the 11. and 12. articles where also it is fully aunswered Notwithstanding seeing it commeth againe it shal be briefly aunswered in this place The Church is not called the piller of truth because it should stand alwayes in the sight of the world for then the defection which S. Paule speaketh of could not haue come neither should the Church flie into the wildernes as was declared to S. Iohn But it is called the piller of truth because that where so euer the Church is either visible or inuisible there is the truth So though the Church were hidde a certeyne time in the wildernes yet there was trueth with the Church You seeme to be a good Arithmetrician for no number soundeth in your mouth but a thousand Neuerthelesse how long so euer it was the piller of truth decayed not And as God gaue his spirite diuers times was bold to chalenge preaching and ministring of the Sacraments yea and so boldly that it cost many of the chalengers their liues As Berengarius Bruno Marsilus de Pandua Ioannes de Gaudano Ioannes VVickleffe VValdo Ioannes Hus Ieronymus de Praga c. Thus it is manifest that the Church hath diuers tymes chalenged her right and withstood falshood 2 Let any man shew that all giftes of the spirite and functions of the holy Ghost haue bene taken from her a thousand yeares togither and onely practised to the peoples vse by an aduouterous Church THere is no
the gift of prophesie the gift of healinges c. but there be other prerogatiues of God his spirit that are necessary for the saluation of God his elect as the gift of vnderstanding the gift of Faith the spirit of adoption c. and these the spouse of Christ hath neuer wanted Wherefore if you wil be partaker of those benefits which are receiued in the church of Christ you must forsake your Romish religion and recant The 25. article hath 2. demandes 1 Shew me that the Church which ought to be a Christian mans staye in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine might become so hidde or so close that no man coulde finde her THe reader must not be offended with me for any tedious repetition of mine aunsweres seeing you geue the occasion by propounding your demandes so often This demande hath a false principle that the church ought to be a Christian mans onely staie in all troubles and tempestes of doctrine for when soeuer any such tempestes doe arise there is as great question and doubt of the Church as there is controuersie of the doctrine for as euery heretike chalengeth vnto him selfe the trueth of opinions so also doth he chalenge the possession of the church so that the church is alwayes in as great question as the doctrine And then is it to be sought out and tried onely by the scriptures as we haue declared at large in the aunswere to the 4. Article 2. demande Secondly whereas you demande whether she coulde be so hidde or close that no man coulde finde her because I haue aunswered to this demande sower or fiue times already I will now aunswere in one worde Although she was hidden and close from the worlde yet was she knowen to them that were her children 2 Or so harteles that she coulde succour no man nor instruct any man in his doubt of conscience or distresse of Faith proue me that there maye be such a decay of Gods spirite trueth and Church and I recant THe Church hath neuer bene afraide to do her office towardes her children and true members in teaching exhorting comforting confirming c. neither hath the spirite of God failed to leade her into all trueth and Christ hath bene with her euer more and shal be to the worldes end But that the spirite of God truth and the Church of Christ shoulde departe from the greatest numbre of the worlde is proued by S. Paule 2. thess. 2. and by the Reuelation of S. Iohn Apoc. 12. Therfore if the spirite of trueth did leade you you shoulde recant The 26. article conteyneth in effect but 3. demandes 1 Shew me againe whether any man of yeares may be saued except he beleue the Catholike Church THere is no man of what age or yeares soeuer he be that can be saued except he be a member of the Catholike church But how necessary it is to beleue the Catholike church it is very doubtfull as you demande and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require If you meane that it is necessary to beleue the Catholike church that is to say that God hath an holy vniuersall Congregation I graunt it is necessary to beleue But I vtterly deny that the Romish church is that holy Catholike church But if you meane as it seemeth and as the rest of the Papistes doe interprete that article I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what soeuer the church doth allow to be true I deny that it is necessary to saluation that a Christian man should so beleue the Catholike church both because the church may erre also because something may be commonly receiued of the church which is not materiall to saluation And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creede I beleue the Catholike church that is I beleue what so euer she doth set forth or maintaine to be true appeareth manifestly by the wordes them selues For who euer was so ignorant in the Latine tongue to thinke that Credere Ecclesiam and Credere Ecclesiae were all one in signification In deede if the wordes were Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae in the datiue case this interpretation might take place but when it is in the accusatiue case Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam A boy that woulde conster it otherwise than thus I beleue that there is a Catholike church were worthy to haue a doosen stripes for his labour Moreouer this common distinction of Credere in Deum that is to put our trust in god Credere Deum that is to beleue that there is a God and Credere Deo that is to geue credit to God that he speaketh the trueth plainely ouerthroweth this foolish and false interpretation For we say not Credo in Ecclesiam that is I put my whole trust in the Church for that were blasphemie against God in whome only we must beleue neither do we say Credo Ecclesiae that is I geue credit to the Church as though she shoulde alwaies speake the trueth But we saye and confesse against all heretikes and scismatikes Credo Ecclesiam c. that is I beleue that there is one Holy Catholike and Apostolike church whereof I am a member c. Finally when the articles following are spoken in one context and phrase it can not be chosen but that they must haue one kinde of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum Remissionem peccatorum Carnis resurrectionem that is I beleue the Communion of Sainctes the forgeuenesse of sinnes the Resurrection of the body c. whereof the interpretation must needes be this I beleue that there is a Communion of Sainctes that there is forgiuenesse of sinnes c. Euen so I beleue that there is a Catholike Church which is an article of our crede necessary to be beleued of euery Christian man but to beleue all and euery thing that the Catholike church by commō consent doth maintaine is no article of our Faith and therefore not necessary to saluation 2 And that is it which hath in the face of all the worlde practised preaching the conuersion of nations to the obedience of the Gospell that hath alwaies had the ministring of sacraments the hearing of matters in controuersie power Iudiciarie in Ecclesiasticall causes the orderly succession of Byshops vniformitie in solemne ceremonies vnity in faith that hath in her selfe all holy functions of the spirite as working of miracles remission of sinnes the true sence and interpretation of Gods word that is bewtified by the diuersitie of states commended by Christ in the Gospell as with Virgines with Martyrs with Confessors and the rest BEcause these colewortes haue bene sodden twise or thryse already they are not worthy to be shewed in seuerall disher but euen as they are here mingled all togither in an hochpotte Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholike Church as it hath bene declared before some are not alwaies necessary in the catholike church As open preaching in the face of the world open ministring of Sacraments and execution of discipline these are not to be required in a persecuted Church Some
8. demandes 1 Let any Protestant in the worlde proue vnto me that their church coulde rightly be called Catholike which was so particular that no man aliue coulde name a place where any such church was WHy might not our Church when it was most hidden be as rightly called Catholike as the Church of the Apostles when it was so particular that it was cōteined in the narrow bondes of Iury for it is not called Catholike because it shoulde be euery where for that it neuer was nor shal be But because that where so euer it be in partes it is one body of Christ The Popish church is not in euery parte of the worlde For Mahomets sect is in the greatest parte Many cuntries are Idolaters and the most parte of them that professe the name of Christ are not in the felowship of the Popish church And whereas you saye that no man aliue coulde name the place where it was you make an impudent lye For although it were vnknowen to the Papistes and enemies thereof yet was it knowen to the true members therof It was in Italie whē Marsilius of Padua preached in France when VValdo preached at Lyons and there about In England when VVickliffe taught in Bohemia when Iohn Hus and Ieronyme of Prage did florishe 2 Or that it might be called holy which neuer had Baptisme or other sacramentes to sanctifie any of her followers withall IT had the spirite of God to sanctifie the true members of it and it had sacramentes to testifie the same Also did not the Bohemians baptise Were not pauperes de Lugduno baptised c. But if you count their Baptisme no Baptisme why did you not rebaptize in Queene Maries time all those that were baptized by our Church in King Edwards time 3 Or that it should be one which as soone as it grew vp in the world was diuided into so many sundry sectes NOne of vs will graunt you that our Church began first to grow when it was last brought to light and knowledge of the world for it hath continued euen since Christ But if there arose or were renewed many heresies with it that is no new matter but an olde practise of the deuill For as soone as the Church of Christ beganne to grow vp after his ascension euen in the Apostles time there were many sectes and heresies As the Iewes that mainteyned the lawe they that denyed the Resurrection among the Corinthians Hymenaeus and Philetus Simon Magus Cerinthus Ebion Marcion Basilides Valentinus Carpocrates c. So that there were many more heresies at the first preaching of the Gospell in and immediatly after the Apostles time then at the last restoring of the publike preaching therof vnto the worlde in our dayes And yet the Apostolike Church was one Church and so is ours at this day one and the same 4 Or that it might be called Apostolike which could neuer coūt by orderly sucession from any Apostle or Apostolike man. YOu are neuer able to answere the arguments that are brought to proue that Peter was neuer Bishoppe at Rome And then where is all your braggs of Apostolike sea and succession c. But be it that Peter was there except you proue succession of doctrine and faith as wel as succession of men your successiō is not worth a straw And our Church which holdeth all the doctrine of the Apostles and none other but the doctrine of the Apostles shall be truely called and founde the Apostolike Church when your with all her succession of Antichristes whore whoremongers heretikes Sodomites blasphemers coniurers c. shabe Apostaticall rather than Apostolicall 5 Or the secret base contemptible defaced and disordered Congregation was euer of that maiestie that it might require the obedience of all Nations HOw base and contemptible soeuer it be in the eyes of the wicked despisers of it yet did it not only require but also subdue all nations to the obedience of the Faith so many as were euer subdued in the dayes of the first Christian Emperors and before And sence when it was most defaced by the tyrannie of Antichrist it was of such maiestie that it both required and obteined the obedience of the realme of Bohemia and in processe of time hath obteined the obedience of almost all the nations of Europe If the churche of Rome reteine the like maiestie why doth it not now requier the like obedience of all nations both Christians and Turkes you will saye It requireth but it can not obteine Euen so I aunswere of our Church it hath alwayes bene worthy to requier but it hath not pleased God that it shoulde alwaies obteine 6 Or that it was euer able to gather generall Councels THe foure best generall Councells were gathered by our Church and the Emperors that were defenders of the same and not by the byshops of Rome Neither were they Presidentes in them as it is manifest that other men were Authors of the Canons or distinctions As of the Nicene Alexander Bishop of Constantinople of the Constantinopolitane Nectarius byshop of the Ephesine Cyrillus byshop of Alexandria of the Chalcedonense Anatolius of Constantinople c. and in other generall Councells where the bishop of Rome was president I aunswere as Iohn Patriarche of Antioche did in the Councell of Basile his presidence was Honoraria ad beneplacitum Concilij eis data non authoritatiua nisi ex concessione aut permissione habente vim concessionis aut ex tolerantia that is For honor sake graunted to them so long as it shoulde please the Councell and not of authority but either by graunt or permission being of the force of a graunt or els of sufferance And I conclude as he doth the Pope was neuer President either of honor or of authority but by the graunt or permission of the Councell And how is the Popish church able to gather general Councells at this daye who will come at her calling Except a few Spaniardes and a ioly company of buckram bishops of Italie generall Councells of all the worlde can neuer be gathered but either whē there is a Monarchie or els which is not to be looked for that all the Princes of the worlde will consent together 7 Or exercise Discipline BEcause this demande hath bene aunswered so often before I will saye the lesse nowe The free course of discipline in time of persecution may be hindred As it was in S. Cyprians time when the members of the Church be dispersed but the power of discipline hath alwayes remained and when occasion serued bene executed As the Bohemians excommunicated the Adamites and the ciuill Magistrates punished them by the sworde 8 Or that these names proper by scripture and Doctors of the true Church coulde be euer chalenged by any right to their saide Congregation AS many of these names as are proper to the Church by scripture or Doctors agreeing with scripture haue bene alwayes iustly chalenged of right to perteine to our Church and Congregation I meane these 1 Corpus