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A01540 A iust defence of certaine passages in a former treatise concerning the nature and vse of lots, against such exceptions and oppositions as have beene made thereunto to Mr. I.B. Wherein the insufficiencie of his answers giuen to the arguments brought in defence of a lusorious lot is manifested; the imbecillitie of his arguments produced against the same further discouered; and the point it selfe in controuersie more fully cleared; by Thomas Gataker B. of D. and author of the former treatise. Gataker, Thomas, 1574-1654.; Balmford, James, b. 1556. Modest reply to certaine answeres, which Mr. Gataker B.D. in his treatise of the nature, & use of lotts, giveth to arguments in a dialogue concerning the unlawfulnes of games consisting in chance. 1623 (1623) STC 11666; ESTC S102920 190,437 294

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I presume Recreation to be lawfull in generall Dare M r. B. or any man denie it And yet I presume it not without proofe neither But you must remember that M r. B. here sighteth not with me or mine Argument but f with a man of straw of g Quomodo apud Romanos contra palum in terram desixum tanquam contra adversarium cum crate clava si●… tiro ●…es dimicabant ut quasi praesentem adversarium sic p●…lum omni impetu omni bellandi arte tentarent Veget. de re mil●…t l. 1. c. 11. l. 2. c. 23. his owne making In his Assumption this is presumed of Lotterie whereas I presume it of recreation not of it I. B. Againe in the introduction he saith The vse of Lots in game is not against Gods word but hath sufficient warrant from it which may imply this position That is against the word which hath not sufficient warrant from it But in the Proposition of the maine Argument his ground is Such things are lawfull which the word dot●… not forbid Foure of his confirmations and his Assumption are to that effect or rather defect and his Conclusion is answerable Is not this a fearefull shifting course of reasoning T. G. This then it seemeth is one point of that fearefull shifting that M r. B. chargeth me with Concerning which enough hath already beene said for this is no new exception And though the words be not thus generally propounded in my Proposition as M r. B. himselfe propoundeth it Yet there is no contradiction betweene these two since that g Omnia licent i. omnis omnium creaturarum rerum usus lege D●…i non prohibitu●… licitè si●…e peccato h●…beri p●…test Mor●…on in 1 Cor. 6 12. quarumvis creaturarū rerum usus lege mor●…li non prohibitus l●…e ●… siue peccato 〈◊〉 po●… s●… I de in 1 Cor. 10. 23. Whatsoeuer is not forbidden in Gods word is by the same word warranted What proofes he dreameth of shall hereafter appeare I. B. Touching the Proposition of his maine Argument I maruell why M r. G. auouching such subiect matter c. to be lawfull as are not forbidden limiteth this Assertion with these words of a thing lawfull in it selfe As if such a thing may warrant our retchlesnesse in and about the subiect matter c. As if God doth not according to the old saying loue Aduerbs An Oath is a thing lawfull in it selfe Are not we therefore to make conscience that the subiect matter c. be agreeable to the word of GOD T. G. I. B. Why I insert those words into mine Assertion may easily appeare to any that will not wilfully shut his eyes because my dispute is concerning Recreation a thing granted to be such and the Question onely about the subiect matter of it And so far are my words from implying any such matter as M r. B. here thence would inferre that I say in expresse termes that As well for the doing of euery act as for the doing of it in this or that manner there must be warrant had out of Gods word h Ista itaque sunt pali vulnera ut Iuvenal sat 6. But I maruell much more at this ground Such things are lawfull as the word doth not forbid I set it downe thus because the confirmations tend to make this good and so conclude All things not prohibited are permitted and therefore the subiect matter c. of a thing lawfull in it selfe I maruell I say because M r. G. confirmeth a thing or act it selfe to be lawfull in it selfe if it be in the word either commanded or permitted expresly or by iust consequence Which I acknowledge to be so cleare a truth that me thinks M r. G. cannot but in proportion of reason if he beleeue the word to be i Psal. 19. 7. perfect k 2 Tim. 3. 15 16 17. vnto euery good worke hold all things to be vnlawfull which are not lawfull one of these two waies and the rather because he peremptorily affirmeth p. 95. All particular morall actions be they neuer so indifferent to be either conformable or disconformable to Gods word and by particular actions he meaneth Actions clothed with circumstances pag. 94. O that M r. G. would hold to this doctrine Then should he thereby prouoke all who make conscience of their waies and l Iohn 3. 21. doe truth that is doe good works sincerely to come to the light that their deeds might be made manifest that they are wrought according to God On the contrary if he bring not disciples m Isai. 8. 20. to the Law and Testimonie by doctrine according to the word but writh from it by teaching that to be lawfull which is not forbidden as therein this light faileth so thereby he shall make men carelesse to seeke for their warrant and wilfull n Num. 15. 39. to seeke after their owne heart and eyes after which they goe a whoring T. G. Here is a long and sore accusation which might all well without any one word more be answered onely by pointing the finger to what formerly was said But because M r. B. so much presseth me I will intreat the Readers patience for a little further discussion of what is here obiected All I say here is this that Where the circumstances of Actions in themselues lawfull are not determined in the word all such are lawfull as are not in the same word forbidden or as are not against the generall rules of the said word of God otherwise And is it not strange that this Assertion should to M r. B. seeme so strange Or is this any writhing from the rule of Gods word Yea but I crosse my selfe else-where in it For I say else-where that such things are lawfull as are in Gods word either commanded or permitted either expresly or by iust consequence I say so indeed and what contradiction is there betweene these two For is not that by iust consequence permitted that is not prohibited Yea since we are come to these precise termes that is neither expresly nor by iust consequence prohibited For I am sure M r. B. will not denie that to be prohibited as well that is by iust consequence prohibited as that is prohibited in expresse termes Either M r. B. then must giue vs some medium between permission and non prohibition or else these two positions will haue very friendly agreement Yea but M r. G. himselfe may seeme to assigne some when he saith that in circumstances determined there is no permission though no prohibition be of any other I answer in a word that the very stinting of an action to those circumstances is a virtuall prohibition of all other not expressed albeit no exclusiue particle in the iniunction be adioyned For example when God bid Abraham o Gen. 22. 2. take Isaak and sacrifice him on an hill that he should shew him it was as effectuall a prohibition of sacrificing
r. B. were so chary of doing M r. G. wrong that to preuent or at least auoid the same hee added this Post-script c Nae tu inquit ille homo imprudens es qui culpam maluisti deprecari cùm posses praecavere Nam tu quod caver●… possis stultum est admittere Ter. Eunuch 4. 6. Seráque nimis praepostera oratio quae peractum castigat cui occurri potuerat Plin. ep 6. l. 6. why doth he wilfully wrong him in that very point wherein hee would seeme here to salue his credit Or what is this but d Facere est facilius quàm sanare vulnera Quintil. institut l. 5. c. 13. Hinc Medius ille 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plut. de adulat Cùm vulnus sanatum est manet cicatrix Sen. de ira l. 1. c. 16. first to wound a man and then clap on a fig-leafe that may in part couer rather than cure the gash that he hath giuen For the other Accusation I told M r. B. that if as Hierome said e Nolo in suspicione haereseos quenquam esse patientem Hieron adv error Ioan. Hieros in case of Heresie then of blasphemie much more a Christian man ought not to be I say not with him patient but at least silent hauing any good ground and opportunitie to cleare himselfe therein I signified therefore vnto him that if he would doe but as much for me as I had before done for him and I supposed in way of requitall I might haue required it to deliuer me his Discourse or a Copie of it I would vndertake within short time either to returne it with due answer or to make publike acknowledgment of mine error if I were thereby conuinced thereof Or if he would none of that as he would in no wise heare of it that he would yet informe me what those blasphemous assertions were that in my Booke I had broached and shew me which I as yet saw not wherein they were such That which in Charitie I held him bound vnto f Exod. 23. 4. Deut. 22. 1. Nedum fratrem ipsum errantem despicias Tertull. ad Marc. l. 4. Quid enim tam malignum quàm nolle prodesse cùm possis Ibid. l. 1. seeing me to wander so fouly out of the way to lend mee his hand and helpe especially crauing the same so instantly for the bringing of me backe againe But other answer to this request of mine from M r. B. I could haue none but that he had put that terme of blasphemie now out of his Booke I replied againe hereunto that that was but a silly satisfaction hauing charged his Brother and fellow-Minister with blasphemie to more than a few to say that he had now put that word out of his Booke I might in his owne words haue told him had I then beene acquainted with them that I held he failed in Charitie in that not hauing had any conference with me either by speech or by writing though I be as he saith his neighbour Minister he offered to accuse me of Blasphemie by Name publikely in Print But I required him as he would answer one day for the neglect of such a duty to shew me mine error that I might not continue in so foule and dangerous an offence or to referre it to any one or more of our Reuerend Brethren of the Ministery about the City such as himselfe should make choise of whether that which I required of him were equall and reasonable and whether he in Charitie might refuse it But g Surdo cecini ut Ter. heaut 2. 1. vel vanis auribus ut Liv. hist. l. 40. I sung to a deafe man I could get from M r. B. no other answer but this that He would be iudged by none but by the whole Church of God And so wee parted Now since M r. B. will so haue it Let the whole Church of God iudge or so many at least to whose hands this Discourse shall come on whose side the breach of Charitie if any be hath beene And this is more by much than I would euer haue troubled my Reader withall had it not beene for M r. B s. Post-script THE SECOND PART M r. BALMFORDS Answer to M r GATAKERS Arguments for the lawfulnesse of a Lusorious Lot Together with M r. G s. Reply in defence of his owne Arguments which are word for word also here related THE former grounds laid concerning T. G. of Lots Cap. 4. Sect. 4. the Nature of Lots in generall the Reasons that induce me to allow Lots of this kinde as not euill in themselues among others are these This Tenent seemeth more fearefull than beseemeth I. B. Answer a learned man who after the turning ouer a wonderfull number of bookes to compile his Historicall and Theologicall Treatise of the Nature and Vse of Lots setteth downe his Iudgement Allowing lusorious Lots only as not euill in themselues whereas he affirmeth them to be lawfull in themselues p. 266. So that if these games be vsed with due obseruation of all his cautions why is he fearefull to allow them as good in themselues How then may a scrupulous man who remembreth not only his wicked wayes but his deeds Ezek. 36. 11. also that are not good build vpon such quagmirie grounds Againe Allowing these games onely as not euill in themselues doth not manifest that Loue of God which I doubt not is in M r. G s. heart For whereas God is glorified by good works and these games Matth. 5. 16. be too too common and accompanied with many crying sinnes whereby God is euery where and daily much dishonoured the Loue of God would haue Iohn 3. 21. constrained him if doing truth to haue brought these games to the light that thereby it might be made manifest that they are wrought according to God Lastly By this Tenent he sheweth not due Charitie to his Neighbour For now it is enough for Gamesters to plead A very learned man holdeth our Gaming to be not euill in it selfe Therefore they will not seeke further to know whether it be good in it selfe forgetting that it is written The Matth. 3. 10. Axe is put to the root of the trees therefore euery tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewen downe and cast into the fire Is not then hereby his neighbours spirituall danger occasioned 1. I might demand here why M r. B. dealeth T. G. Reply onely with my Tenent but taketh no notice at all of the a Of Lots chap. 2. Grounds fore-laid contrary to * In his Preface his owne assertion and my course with him who deale with and discusse as well his Ground●… as his Arguments But that I let passe 2. Requesting him b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Vlysses Homericus Neque cu●…m ij sumus quos vituperare nec inimici quidē possint nisi ut simul laudent Plin. ep 12. l. 3. to forbeare c Honorifica contumelia Hieron ad