Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	church_n	true_a	visible_a	8,046	5	9.4741	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85314	Separation examined: or, a treatise vvherein the grounds for separation from the ministry and churches of England are weighed, and found too light. The practise proved to be not onely unwarrantable, but likewise so hurtful to the churches, that church-reformation cannot with any comfort go forward, so long as such separation is tolerated. Also an humble request presented to the congregational divines, that since the differences between them and the classical-divines are very small they would please to strike in with the classical-divines in carrying on the worke of reformation, before the inundation of these corrupt opinions, have destroyed both ordinances and religion. / By Gi. Firmin minister to the church in Shalford in essex.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1652 (1652)	Wing F964; Thomason E656_12; ESTC R206624	107,263	123

adversary_n that_o trouble_v our_o reformation_n i_o think_v to_o have_v take_v occasion_n here_o to_o clear_v myself_o from_o what_o mr._n edward_n have_v write_v concern_v i_o but_o the_o man_n be_v dead_a i_o rather_o let_v it_o alone_o for_o sin_n i_o thank_v god_n he_o have_v charge_v i_o with_o none_o i_o know_v if_o ever_o the_o lord_n bring_v such_o a_o unworthy_a wretch_n as_o i_o be_o to_o heaven_n i_o shall_v not_o bear_v mr._n edward_n a_o grudge_n for_o what_o unkindness_n he_o have_v offer_v to_o i_o here_o but_o whereas_o mr._n edward_n have_v brand_v i_o for_o a_o independent_a some_o of_o miserable_a colchester_n have_v tell_v i_o that_o i_o have_v alter_v my_o principle_n but_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n why_o the_o one_o shall_v charge_v i_o to_o be_v a_o independent_a nor_o the_o other_o for_o depart_v from_o my_o principle_n for_o i_o never_o declare_v any_o thing_n in_o public_a but_o only_o once_o which_o be_v concern_v the_o matter_n and_o form_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n for_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n never_o trouble_v i_o but_o how_o to_o have_v the_o people_n reform_v and_o scandalous_a person_n debar_v from_o the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n and_o person_n bring_v into_o a_o posture_n fit_a for_o discipline_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o independency_n once_o also_o i_o express_v this_o that_o i_o conceive_v a_o church_n organise_v and_o walk_v regular_o may_v execute_v all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n within_o itself_o i_o never_o express_v any_o thing_n more_o there_o concern_v church-work_n but_o do_v labour_n to_o keep_v alive_a the_o old_a truth_n which_o i_o find_v my_o heart_n have_v more_o need_n of_o then_o to_o preach_v about_o church-government_n in_o such_o a_o town_n as_o that_o be_v but_o if_o you_o say_v though_o i_o do_v not_o express_v it_o open_o yet_o i_o be_v a_o independent_a in_o my_o judgement_n but_o how_o can_v man_n charge_v i_o with_o that_o whi●c_a neither_o in_o public_a nor_o private_a they_o ever_o hear_v i_o express_v but_o then_o to_o deal_v plain_o i_o shall_v set_v down_o what_o manner_n of_o independent_a than_o i_o be_v and_o then_o you_o shall_v see_v how_o much_o i_o be_o alter_v in_o these_o point_v i_o do_v join_v with_o the_o congregational-man_n first_o i_o think_v none_o but_o visible_a saint_n to_o be_v fit_a matter_n for_o a_o church_n second_o church_n so_o the_o belgic_a church_n i_o think_v a_o promise_n from_o the_o people_n to_o subject_v themselves_o to_o church-discipline_n be_v of_o very_o great_a concernment_n to_o carry_v on_o discipline_n with_o strength_n and_o comfort_n as_o likewise_o to_o subject_v themselves_o to_o all_o other_o ordinance_n as_o become_v christian_n three_o though_o i_o do_v own_o the_o church_n of_o england_n for_o true_a church_n yet_o because_o for_o want_v of_o catechise_v and_o discipline_n they_o be_v overgrow_v with_o ignorance_n and_o profaneness_n i_o do_v desire_v the_o gross_o ignorant_a and_o profane_a to_o stay_v a_o while_n before_o i_o give_v it_o heir_n child_n the_o seal_n of_o baptism_n that_o have_v get_v knowledge_n and_o conversation_n free_v from_o scandal_n the_o ordinance_n may_v be_v administer_v with_o more_o comfort_n four_o i_o think_v that_o if_o church_n be_v now_o constitute_v the_o officer_n shall_v not_o receive_v any_o into_o church-fellowship_n against_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n give_v sufficient_a proof_n against_o they_o five_o i_o think_v the_o officer_n ought_v not_o excommunicate_v any_o person_n if_o the_o people_n do_v not_o consent_v to_o they_o not_o that_o a_o church_n must_v be_v obstruct_v if_o two_o or_o three_o have_v a_o mind_n to_o be_v cross_a six_o i_o think_v a_o particular_a church_n organise_v to_o be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n and_o according_a as_o mr._n cotton_n hold_v it_o out_o but_o this_o i_o do_v not_o express_v public_o seven_o i_o do_v somewhat_o question_n whether_o the_o officer_n of_o one_o church_n have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v in_o another_o church_n but_o in_o these_o point_v i_o be_v no_o independent_a first_o i_o can_v not_o be_v clear_a that_o the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n second_o neither_o that_o the_o fraternity_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v formal_o three_o that_o a_o minister_n shall_v preach_v only_o as_o a_o gift_a broth_n ere_fw-we out_o of_o his_o own_o place_n four_o i_o can_v not_o consent_v to_o have_v the_o godly_a people_n take_v away_o from_o a_o godly_a presbyterian_a into_o a_o independent_a church_n five_o i_o can_v not_o approve_v that_o independent_a church_n shall_v refuse_v to_o communicate_v with_o presbyterial_a church_n though_o there_o be_v good_a store_n of_o visible_a saint_n for_o want_v of_o a_o explicit_a covenant_n by_o this_o time_n i_o hope_v i_o shall_v be_v no_o rank_n independent_a but_o where_o be_v then_o my_o thang_n of_o my_o principle_n let_v these_o man_n prove_v it_o for_o i_o be_o the_o same_o still_o only_o since_o i_o read_v mr._n hudson_n i_o do_v somewhat_o waver_v about_o the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o key_n and_o this_o be_v all_o my_o change_n that_o my_o mind_n may_v be_v clear_v against_o who_o i_o write_v i_o observe_v separatist_n be_v not_o all_o of_o a_o size_n some_o separate_a from_o minister_n &_o church_n and_o get_v into_o their_o private_a house_n own_o no_o officer_n but_o please_v themselves_o with_o their_o own_o gift_n and_o opinion_n these_o be_v the_o person_n who_o i_o chief_o aim_v at_o as_o such_o that_o so_o trouble_v we_o that_o no_o church-discipline_n can_v hold_v so_o long_o as_o they_o stand_v other_o live_v in_o place_n where_o there_o be_v visible_a and_o real_a saint_n the_o ministry_n godly_a and_o able_a yea_o it_o may_v be_v call_v to_o the_o place_n by_o these_o person_n but_o because_o they_o can_v have_v all_o they_o will_v pick_v a_o quarrel_n with_o the_o ordination_n of_o their_o minister_n etc._n etc._n they_o choose_v some_o other_o minister_n in_o some_o other_o town_n and_o so_o depart_v from_o the_o prebyterial_a to_o a_o congregational_a church_n continue_v still_o in_o the_o same_o parish_n it_o be_v well_o these_o man_n hold_v up_o ordinance_n and_o officer_n yet_o the_o ground_n of_o their_o practice_n the_o ensue_a discourse_n will_v try_v i_o be_o sure_a peace_n and_o unity_n among_o church_n can_v possible_o stand_v with_o this_o practice_n it_o be_v very_o sad_a that_o we_o shall_v not_o yield_v a_o little_a where_o we_o may_v nay_o where_o we_o ought_v for_o peace_n with_o our_o brethren_n who_o we_o can_v but_o judge_v holy_a and_o sincere_a if_o there_o shall_v sometime_o fall_v out_o a_o quotation_n somewhat_o sharp_a yet_o i_o pray_v do_v not_o think_v that_o i_o apply_v it_o to_o all_o separatist_n but_o to_o some_o among_o they_o who_o may_v deserve_v it_o what_o success_n my_o poor_a endeavour_n shall_v find_v i_o know_v not_o i_o look_v for_o little_a good_a they_o shall_v do_v among_o the_o separatist_n who_o with_o a_o imperious_a scorn_n neglect_v to_o listen_v to_o or_o read_v any_o thing_n which_o tend_v to_o overthrow_v their_o practice_n and_o though_o they_o be_v so_o confute_v as_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o answer_v a_o word_n yet_o they_o scorn_v to_o acknowledge_v their_o error_n and_o return_v to_o the_o congregation_n from_o which_o they_o have_v separate_v which_o to_o i_o be_v a_o clear_a demonstration_n that_o however_o these_o man_n pretend_v conscience_n yet_o it_o be_v no_o such_o thing_n for_o be_v these_o man_n lead_v by_o a_o pure_a conscience_n consider_v how_o they_o separate_v from_o holy_a man_n such_o also_o as_o have_v be_v instrument_n of_o their_o soul_n good_a consider_v also_o how_o they_o weaken_v their_o hand_n grieve_v their_o spirit_n they_o will_v hear_v read_v pray_v take_v any_o course_n that_o they_o may_v be_v sure_a to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o truth_n 13.36_o act._n 13.36_o but_o i_o leave_v the_o success_n to_o god_n my_o desire_n be_v to_o serve_v my_o generation_n and_o there_o i_o rest_n separation_n examine_v i_o will_v not_o trouble_v myself_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v a_o visible_a church_n upon_o the_o earth_n or_o true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n i_o think_v there_o be_v none_o that_o own_o the_o scripture_n who_o will_v deny_v the_o former_a though_o there_o be_v some_o who_o deny_v the_o latter_a unless_o i_o mean_v the_o congregationall_a church_n which_o they_o will_v acknowledge_v to_o be_v church_n but_o none_o else_o yet_o many_o of_o those_o who_o i_o write_v against_o do_v not_o own_v they_o for_o though_o they_o have_v opportunity_n and_o may_v join_v with_o such_o church_n yet_o they_o refuse_v to_o do_v so_o be_v unwilling_a i_o perceive_v to_o come_v under_o or_o

let_v i_o examine_v what_o you_o say_v at_o present_a you_o will_v covenant_v together_o suppose_v yourselves_o to_o be_v saint_n first_o say_v you_o so_o be_v you_o saint_n by_o call_v how_o come_v you_o to_o be_v so_o what_o do_v god_n call_v you_o immediate_o no_o you_o must_v say_v many_o if_o not_o all_o of_o you_o who_o have_v any_o truth_n of_o grace_n by_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o word_n what_o by_o those_o minister_n from_o who_o you_o separate_v as_o no_o minister_n because_o of_o their_o ordination_n have_v the_o lord_n so_o far_o own_v his_o despise_a member_n as_o to_o make_v they_o the_o instrument_n to_o bring_v you_o to_o be_v visible_a saint_n fit_a to_o imbody_n or_o covenant_n &_o c_o and_o be_v these_o now_o no_o minister_n be_v you_o the_o effect_n of_o their_o ministerial_a labour_n and_o they_o no_o minister_n sure_o in_o this_o one_o thing_n you_o have_v overthrow_v yourselves_o but_o than_o you_o say_v you_o will_v ordain_v he_o this_o i_o will_v consider_v in_o its_o own_o place_n then_o he_o shall_v baptize_v but_o since_o he_o do_v renounce_v his_o own_o baptism_n also_o who_o shall_v baptize_v he_o first_o you_o must_v have_v a_o minister_n to_o do_v that_o to_o be_v sure_a he_o can_v do_v it_o himself_o nor_o none_o of_o you_o for_o you_o be_v private_a person_n to_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n before_o you_o be_v baptize_v be_v contrary_a to_o scripture_n rule_v there_o be_v a_o report_n when_o i_o be_v in_o new_a england_n that_o a_o carpenter_n re-baptised_n mr._n williams_n 269._o in_o just_o mar._n time_n none_o receive_v the_o supper_n but_o such_o as_o be_v first_o baptize_v apol._n 2._o ius_n divi._n apend_v p._n 269._o and_o then_o he_o do_v rebaptise_a the_o rest_n i_o do_v not_o stand_v to_o defend_v the_o thing_n whether_o it_o be_v true_a or_o no_o but_o it_o be_v like_a enough_o to_o be_v true_a and_o suitable_a to_o the_o other_o opinion_n and_o practice_n of_o that_o wild_a generation_n where_o be_v we_o now_o five_o that_o be_v very_o observable_a which_o the_o london_n minister_n have_v add_v in_o the_o defence_n of_o their_o ordination_n that_o in_o this_o church_n of_o england_n the_o corruption_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n will_v have_v introduce_v about_o ordination_n of_o minister_n and_o other_o ecclesiastical_a affair_n be_v withstand_v and_o oppose_v by_o the_o king_n of_o england_n nor_o do_v we_o read_v of_o any_o minister_n that_o be_v ordain_v by_o any_o agent_n send_v from_o rome_n but_o only_o some_o idle_a ceremony_n of_o confirmation_n or_o they_o that_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o pall_n and_o the_o ring_n bring_v thence_o into_o england_n thus_o far_o the_o london_n minister_n in_o the_o margin_n they_o have_v set_v down_o the_o author_n that_o prove_v it_o six_o there_o may_v be_v another_o answer_n give_v by_o some_o who_o be_v good_a historian_n which_o i_o confess_v i_o be_o not_o want_v both_o time_n and_o such_o book_n so_o far_o as_o i_o can_v go_v i_o will_n that_o the_o church_n in_o england_n be_v at_o first_o right_o gather_v and_o constitute_v it_o be_v not_o to_o be_v doubt_v edition_n mart._n 1._o vol._n p._n 237_o last_o edition_n the_o instrument_n of_o gather_v be_v apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o mr._n fox_n neither_o be_v it_o to_o be_v doubt_v but_o they_o do_v ordain_v officer_n in_o the_o church_n for_o we_o read_v of_o minister_n and_o bishop_n the_o land_n fall_v to_o the_o possession_n of_o the_o saxon_n about_o the_o year_n 568._o 147._o p._n 147._o the_o story_n say_v by_o they_o all_o the_o clergy_n and_o the_o christian_a minister_n of_o the_o britain_n be_v then_o utter_o drive_v out_o in_o so_o much_o that_o the_o archbishop_n of_o london_n and_o york_n go_v into_o wales_n thus_o long_o then_o it_o seem_v the_o minister_n of_o england_n have_v no_o ordination_n from_o rome_n 149._o p._n 149._o this_o appear_v also_o by_o austin_n who_o come_v into_o england_n in_o the_o year_n five_o hundred_o ninety_o eight_o he_o about_o the_o year_n six_o hundred_o 153._o p._n 153._o assemble_v the_o bishop_n and_o doctor_n of_o britain_n so_o that_o still_o here_o be_v minister_n but_o where_o their_o abode_n be_v the_o story_n set_v not_o down_o but_o suppose_v to_o be_v towards_o wales_n and_o charge_v they_o to_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o the_o englishman_n and_o also_o that_o they_o shall_v among_o themselves_o reform_v certain_a rite_n in_o their_o church_n so_o that_o still_o here_o be_v minister_n and_o church_n special_o for_o keep_v of_o eastertide_n baptise_v after_o the_o manner_n of_o rome_n etc._n etc._n to_o which_o the_o scot_n and_o britain_n will_v not_o agree_v this_o show_v they_o do_v not_o depend_v upon_o rome_n afterward_o there_o be_v another_o synod_n gather_v where_o seven_o bishop_n of_o britain_n be_v present_a and_o though_o we_o find_v a_o great_a battle_n fight_v present_o after_o where_o the_o britain_n be_v overcome_v yet_o the_o story_n do_v not_o mention_v that_o the_o minister_n be_v all_o slay_v there_o now_o the_o thing_n i_o aim_v at_o be_v this_o that_o since_o there_o be_v so_o many_o minister_n and_o bishop_n in_o england_n who_o have_v their_o ordination_n by_o succesfion_n from_o those_o apostolical_a man_n and_o not_o from_o rome_n and_o we_o find_v so_o many_o when_o austin_n come_v why_o may_v we_o not_o suppose_v that_o these_o may_v again_o preach_v the_o gospel_n to_o the_o englishman_n though_o at_o first_o they_o be_v opposite_a when_o they_o have_v smart_v for_o their_o folly_n and_o why_o may_v we_o not_o suppose_v they_o may_v return_v into_o england_n again_o especial_o into_o those_o part_n near_o wales_n also_o those_o who_o be_v drive_v out_o as_o the_o story_n say_v they_o be_v suppose_v into_o some_o other_o part_n may_v not_o they_o return_v into_o england_n also_o must_v we_o take_v the_o word_n of_o the_o story_n all_o the_o clergy_n and_o christian_a minister_n be_v drive_v out_o strict_o so_o as_o none_o at_o all_o be_v leave_v though_o latent_fw-la &_o c_o those_o who_o be_v good_a historian_n may_v help_v here_o and_o it_o will_v be_v some_o answer_n to_o that_o objection_n of_o our_o ordination_n come_v from_o rome_n though_o unto_o i_o the_o objection_n be_v very_o feeble_a if_o this_o answer_n can_v be_v make_v out_o as_o for_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v right_o at_o first_o gather_v 111._o way_n of_o ch._n in_o n._n e._n ch._n 7._o p._n 111._o as_o above_o mention_v mr._n cotton_n yield_v it_o so_o as_o he_o say_v that_o all_o the_o work_n now_o be_v not_o to_o make_v they_o church_n which_o be_v none_o before_o but_o to_o reduce_v and_o restore_v they_o to_o their_o primitive_a institution_n etc._n etc._n to_o that_o part_n of_o the_o objection_n they_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o think_v of_o master_n bradford_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o those_o holy_a minister_n and_o martyr_n that_o be_v ordain_v by_o the_o bishop_n in_o those_o day_n cranmer_n ridley_n hooper_n &_o c_o be_v he_o a_o anti-christian_n minister_n and_o all_o those_o minister_n who_o be_v then_o ordain_v though_o now_o they_o be_v scarce_o get_v out_o of_o the_o popish_a ceremony_n etc._n etc._n the_o holy_a martyr_n than_o do_v never_o offer_v to_o separate_v from_o mr._n bradford_n and_o the_o rest_n nor_o call_v they_o antichristian_a minister_n i_o pray_v how_o many_o such_o bradford_n have_v you_o among_o you_o not_o all_o the_o separatist_n in_o england_n can_v afford_v such_o a_o one_o christ_n call_v he_o his_o faithful_a minister_n but_o you_o say_v mr._n bradford_n be_v none_o curse_v be_v that_o doctrine_n now_o if_o those_o minister_n be_v true_a minister_n though_o they_o have_v a_o episcopal_a ordination_n than_o so_o be_v we_o notwithstanding_o their_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n it_o be_v vain_a to_o say_v those_o bishop_n be_v godly_a man_n so_o be_v ot_fw-mi we_o for_o it_o be_v a_o bold_a assertion_n to_o say_v that_o none_o of_o the_o bishop_n since_o have_v be_v godly_a man_n no_o doubt_n there_o be_v divers_a in_o heaven_n and_o beside_o it_o be_v absurd_a to_o think_v that_o the_o truth_n and_o efficacy_n of_o a_o ordinance_n depend_v upon_o the_o truth_n of_o grace_n in_o he_o who_o do_v administer_v it_o as_o for_o ceremony_n if_o you_o search_v they_o be_v not_o clear_v then_o no_o more_o than_o our_o bishop_n be_v it_o be_v a_o silly_a shift_n to_o say_v they_o walk_v according_a to_o their_o light_n i_o hope_v there_o be_v the_o same_o rule_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o minister_n then_o that_o be_v now_o it_o be_v not_o their_o light_n which_o make_v they_o true_a minister_n but_o the_o rule_n but_o the_o truth_n of_o their_o ministry_n be_v never_o