and not all integralls into the definition for suppose the Officers of a Church be taken away by death 〈◊〉 it yet I hope he will not say that in the vacancy the Church ceaseth to be Officers are not simply for the being but the well being of a Church See how he adulterates his quotation in two or three Articles of this Chapter 1. He saith his Author assumes Answ to q. p. 10. we hold there is no visible Church but a particular But his Author saith no visible Church properly so called but a particular so W. R. leaves out the middle words just as in Mat. 4.6 whereby the sense is exceedingly altered sith a Church improperly so called is yet a church 2. He saith we currently hold this but his Author speaks modestly in these words we know not any c. Ans to 32. q. pag. 9. Ans to 9. Pos 66. 3. He saith we hold there is no universall visible Church in any sense but his Author saith only we know no such visible Catholike Church wherein the seales are to be dispensed Ans to 9. Pos 66. A man with halfe an eye may discerne this is not square dealing Answer to CHAP. III. THis Chapter is spent in laying downe what qualifications the Churches of New-England require in persons of age that are admitted Members He tells us to name but the heads in briefe That they must be reall Saints sincere Beleevers men of meeke and humble spiritâ— and sincere ends and that the Church in admitting of them doth make exact triall 1. by letters of recommendation 2. or testimony of Members 3. experience of their conversation 4. by examination of their knowledge and the worke of grace first in private then in publique 5. that they be such which he saith is much desired as can cleave together in opinion and affection 6. that they cohabite as neere as may be for the better mutuall watchfulnesse 7. that they be such as know what belong to Church Covenant approve it and seeke â—â— I pray W. R. speake now as a Christian and as a man of God â— there any thing in all this you have said that you can blame in our practise 1. for desiring to have all our members if it might be of such a spirituall stampe and character as this and 2. for endeavouring by tryall what lies in us to find out such as say that they are Jewes and are not but doe lye 3. and having discovered such for keeping them from polluting the holy seales and other Ordinances of God to his dishonour and their own ruine 4. or if we as far as our light and line reaches for wee have no spirit of infallability Find them sound in the faith for receiving encouraging comforting them what hurt is in all this I tell you W. R. if your selfe and some others did take more exact pains in the tryall of your people and fitting them for the enjoyment of Church-Priviledges it would never repent you Now although these particulars recited doe justifie us and our proceedings yet marke his dealing first in his Articles then in the Margent of his chapter He tells the world Art 2. That we require in persons to be admitted not only to be common buâ— choyce Christians â—ns It by châ—yâ— he meâ—nâ—s eminent Christians it 's very false for we accept Christians of the lowest forme and never reject any for want of parts or eminency of grace iâ— we can discerne in them an heart smitten with sense of sin and need of Christ joyned with a blamelesse conversation though very weake in knowledge and faith c. we dare not refuse but embosome them in the Lord. And hâ—mselfe when he will speake the naked truth confesseth as much Art 8 tells us what great indulgence we use in the admitting members Let the Reader take notice that upon perusall of his Authors quoted he shâ—ll not find any one sentence or word tending to justifie his saying herâ—in Hee would make men beleeve in Article the second that wee hold if any be admitted that is not a reall Saint he is false matter of the visible Church â—nswer This he boldly affirmes but not one word of proofe nor truth We hold no such thing for a visible Saint may be true matter of a visible Church when admitted a member upon his profession of godlines and taking the Covenant as Achan Iudas Ananias Saphira were all true matter of the visible though not of the invisible Church else they had never beene admitted into the Churches And that our Churches in New-Eng hold so vid. 1. 2. Ans to 32 9. 50. Discourse of the Covenant pag 5. Hence now what will become of all his long Margent to Article 12. where hee keepes a great stirre in confuting us by foure tedious arguments of an error we never held but it 's one of his owne framing So all his labour therein is lost and some dishonour gained he said in his preface he would bring proofe for every materiall thing not proved before yet he breakes his word because he had a minde to have it true that it might reflect upon us He reports That every one that is admitted is brought before the whole Church though never so many to make their Declarations in publike wonders in his margent that we should be so harsh in our dealing as not to betrust the Elders and some private men with their examinations Art 6. He is againe besides the truth Answer for in the Churches where we have lived many yeares we have seene such a tender respect had to the weaker sex who are usually more fearefull bashfull that we commit their triall to the Elders some few others in private who upon their testimony are admitted into the Church without any more adoe And so shew more indulgence to them then W. R. doth to us As for that question in his margent Why may not the Officers be trusted with their examinations c. Ans So they are frequently according to your wish In the same Article he saith That in the publique their Declarations must be to the conviction and satisfaction of all before they can be admitted It 's not so for though some few be unsatisfied Answer they use to submit to the rest and sit downe in their votes unlesse their reasons be such as may convince the Church For his Quotations cited to prove both these last mentioned good Reader doe us the favour but to search Answer to 32 quest pag. 23. 24. and Answ to 9 quest 62. 70. and you shall finde them to justifie him so farre as not to afford him any one word or so much as a shew and countenance All I say to W. R. is this How can this stand with simplicity and truth He would make men beleeve Art 8. that SOMETIMES we goe contrary to our former rigour by using great indulgence in our admitting members as if we were not consistent to our selves and principles through
AN ANSWER TO W. R. HIS NARRATION of the Opinions and Practises of the Churches lately erected in Nevv-England Vindicating those Godly and Orthodoxall Churches from more then an hundred imputations fathered on them and their Church way by the said W. R. in his Booke Wherein is plainely proved 1. That the grounds of his Narration are sandie and insufficient 2. That the maner of his handling it unloving and irregular 3. That the matter of it ful of grosse mistakes divers contradictions 4. That the quotations extremely wrested and out of measure abused 5. That his Marginall notes impertinent and injurious By THOMAS WELDE Pastour of the Church of Roxborough in NEVV-ENGLAND Jude 10. They speake evill of things they know not Prov. 18.17 He that is first in his owne case seemeth just but his neighbour commeth after and searcheth him This is Licensed and Entered according to Order LONDON Printed by Tho Paine for H. Overton and are to be sold at his shop entring into Popes-Head Alley out of Lumbard-Streete 1644. THE EPISTLE TO THE REDAER THere was a law in Israell Deut. 22.18 19 that if any man did bring an ill name upon a Virgin of Israell the matter was to come before the Elders and hee was to bee chastised and amerced an hundred shekells of silver There is one W. R. if thou knowest the man that hath brought many ill reports not upon one Virgin but all the Virgin-Churches of New-England When thou seest him do so much as bring him forth to Answer this law Tell him wee purpose to try an Action with him and have satisfaction from him And if hee saith hee hath not raised these reports himselfe but had them from others Then tell him again from us that cannot satisfie for we have learned from divine and humane lawes that if any bee taken reporting of slaunders as wee shall abundantly shew hee hath do◠his Narrative he may be charged as the raiser of ◠〈◊〉 hee can cleare himselfe by bringing such Authors into light as will owne them Dut. 17.6 2 Cor. 13.1 1 Tim. 5.19 But if he will not or cannot wee must lay them at his owne doore It s for all the severall reports in his booke brought against us and our wayes we expect the rule of Moses and the Apo-stle Paul that in the mouth of two or three witnesses and not under every matter should be established to produce Barrow Browne Robinson c. for Authors for they were dead before New-England Churches were borne or H. W. T. P. and I know not what private letters lying by him in his study for wee know not their voyce nor let him say it was told me as he often doth for wee protest against such testimony nor I was informedso c. for sama est mendax and prejudice hardly speakes well of any Tell him wee will goe to aged Paul hee was a good Divine to bee our Vmpire to determine what witnesse we must have in a case of accusation and to his verdict wee will stand which is set downe plainely 1 Tim. 5.19 Three things more let me say to the reader and I have done 1. Wonder not this Answer staid so long for it had certainly taken his narrative by the heele but that some speciall providence whose distracted lines intercepted the truth is I thought it should neede no other Answer then it selfe untill I perceived some ill effects of it 2 But why doe I undertake this worke Answer 1. I am one of the nearest kinsmen to those Churches of any other man in these parts and therefore I take my selfe bound to the name of my Brethren in a righteous way and not let it die through my neglect 2. Few or none are here have had more experience of New-England Church courses then my selfe through many yeares continuance with them and to whom I am returning when God makes way and am therefore able to speake on certainty and with conscience where W. R. departs from the truth in his relations 3. I have beene pressed by word of mouth and sundry letters to doe it therefore if I should hold my peace when I am called to speake and see so many innocent Churches suffer I should not lift up my face to God nor my Brethren there God knowes my spirit how exceeding loath I was to controvert with a Brother though but a defendant and to uncover his nakednesse but when God calls I am bound with Moses when he saw the Ebrew did wrong to his Brother to say why smitest thou thy fellow Exod. 2.13 3. Touching the answer it selfe some things I would say 1 I thinke it not meete to answer all I could nor to every particular especially in his Marginall extravagances that would be too tedious For our principall passages being answered unto the rest will fall of themselves 2. Nor to answer any thing in his booke so oft as hee repeates it for divers things are fetched over by him some three some foure severall times what his reasons are himselfe can best give account 3. Neither is it possible for me to answer the sayings of his private letters lying by him such a ground of Church stories as I never heard of because I know neither who they are nor what their owne words are or if I did were it materiall 4. Thou seest I have a three fold worke to answer 1. his Articles 2 his quotations 3 his Margent All which I have indeavored faithfully as in Gods presence to doe what oversight or infirmity hath passed my penne therein I crave thy pardon for we are weake men and God knowes too apt to forget our selves in greater things then these 5. What I here write is onely from my selfe if any weakenesse appeare impute it not I pray thee to the case in hand or our Churches iudgements there but to my owne frailty rather 6. Nor is it my scope to discusse the points of Discipline that worke is in abler hands but I looke upon his booke as an historicall narration and accordingly I frame my answer 7. Though he brings not the words of any of his Authors cited which had been fairer and might have kept him in closer bonds yet I have done it for him especially in the last sixe or eight Chapters that you may iudge whether hee hath dealt fairely with them or no. 8. When I recite W. R. his words in his narration you will see I have dealt candidly with him either mentioning his very words or so many of them as containe their full strength whereto my answer tends 9. When at any time in my answer I say such an Article or such a clause is untrue or is false I am not willing to impute the falsity thereof to the Authors knowledge I would iudge otherwise of him then so but to the thing it selfe asserted which may be done through his misinformation or mistake I will say no more but commit thy spirit to the wise guidance of the Father of lights who
collected out of Scripture and set down in writing 2. Yet we see no Grounds to impose such a Platforme upon Churches but leave them to their libertie therein because we know not that Christ ever enjoyned it and therefore we desire W. R. not to stumble at our Churches much lesse take upon him so masterly to controll us because we have it not To the Marginalls of Art 2. He wonders how we so soone fell into such an exact forme of Discipline Objection 1 without a Platforme We answer him yea he tells us himselfe Answ we had it from that patterne of wholsome words written in the Scriptures Gods good spirit opening our eyes to see it And some others also laying aside prejudice and humbly setting themselves to waite on God for light may come to see an exacter forme of Discipline then it may be hither to they have done But why doe no other Churches in the world saith he besides your Objection 2 selves see this way but all oppose it Blessed be God it is not so many thousands doe see and follow it Answ so far are they from opposing it And even England is comming neerer it by many steps of late then before He that hath brought them from Episcopacy Imposed Formes and Popish Ceremonies c. can carry them on further 2. Most of such as doe not walke in but oppose our way are they that either have not heard our grounds or else have not impartially weighed them and hence have received a prejudice against our practise 3. To reveale light being a free act of the father of light he may choose what truths he will manifest and when and to whom and in what measure he will dispence them as Christ saith Mat. 25.11 Father I thanke thee thou hast revealed these things so it is Father because thy good will is so Objection 3 But we tie our selves to a president why not rather to a platforme Answ 1. Let him consider well if this be not a reproach injuriously cast upon us whose indeavour is and hath beene as in the sight of God not to follow mens or Churches president further then wee see them following Christ for though at first a president may be looked at as a directorie into the right way yet the practise may be grounded on the truth it selfe discerned and not upon the president according to Iohn 4.42 They were first led to Christ by the woman yet after beleeved on him for his owne sake and the truth they discerned to be in him Ob. All our Churches saith he in New-England their members doe clearely see the shining light of Discipline by a cleare evidence of the way revealed to them and yet doâ— tiâ— themselves to a president Ans Is not here a contradiction for if we all have full cleare shining light ☞ then wee neede no spectacles of a president or if wee tie our selves to a president it 's because wee conceive wee have not full and cleare light of our owne Objection 4 But we have had divisions amongst us Ans 1. Those divisions were not caused by our Church Discipline but by certaine vile opinions brought to us from England which I feare is your own case this day and yet no blame you will say 2. Through rich mercy they are long since subdued by the light and power of his truth O that you could say the same of all the loose opinions here if the will of God were so for which wee sigh daily to heaven on your behalfe and dare not reproach you with it 3. When these divisions did FALL it was whiles our discipline STOOD which shewes that our Discipline bred them not but destroyed them rather Objection 5 To the Margent on Article 3. If an imposed platforme by imperious power be unlawfull in others why doe wee so rigorrously presse others to our president Answ To impose a thing and that by an imperious power which may possibly be erroneous in it self or without evidence to others consciences on whom it is pressed cannot bee lawfull but for us to make the perfect word our patterne then carefully informe others therein and after iâ—formation leade them by it is certainly much differing from the other and farre from a slavish invitation by our selves or rigâ—â—â— pressing of a president upon others both which here he imputes very unjustly to us As God hath kept us hitherto from such imperious rigour so I hope by his grace he will ever doe But wee forbeare giving of our priviledges to such as conform not to our Objection 6 way 1. If it were our way and not Christs Ans it were our great sinne and in part the same with the Prelates of late but to forbeare giving priviledges to such as submit not to the rules of participation is no rigouâ— but such a thing as Christ himselfe would doe if in our places 2. It is no more then all other societies in the world doe who first require conformity before they permit to any the injoyment of their liberties 3. Doe wee any more herein then the Reverend Assembly themselves at this day who would not willingly admit unto Church-imployments and priviledges any of a contrary judgement in point of Discipline And yet I hope you will not say that either these or those exercise rigour But wee will not own such as sister Churches that differ from us though Objection 7 but in some things in Church Discipline Doe not the Churches of England differ from us not onely in some things but in many as W. R. Ans ☜ himselfe saith and yet wee owne them as sister Churches witnesse his owne quoted Authors Discourse of Covenant p. 36. at large Mr. Cottons printed letter All which affirme in effect and some in words that we blesse the wombes that bare us and the paps that gave us suck We intreate W. R. in the spirit of meekenesse to cleare himself from a slaunder in such a generall accusation of his brethren Yet we more rigidly impose our patterne then any Churches ever did Objection 8 How great an aspersion this is I leave others to judge Answ and the Lord himselfe to convince him of Why hath there ever beene so much as any attempt amongst us to suspend excommunicate ☜ deprive banish imprison any for dissenting from us in matters of discipline as of late in England for non-conformity Or to raise a bloody war for Bishops a Service booke as against our Brethren in Scotland or to slander falsifie Authors render many godly Churches odious to the world as W. R. himselfe hath done in this booke meerely for difference from him in point of Church Government We have indeed Civilly Ecclesiastically censured divers there amongst us but it was for obstinacy in weighty points in Religion sedition in the state scandalous practises as also manifest contempt of the Churches of Christ there but not any for inconformity in Church Discipline Answer to CHAP. II. HE saith Art 1. 2. That
whereas the truth is we neither hold so nor practise so but bring as few matters as possible into the Assembly rather labouring to take all things up in private and then make as short work in publique when they must needs come there as may be Now what will become of that long Marginall wherein so ungroundly he makes invectives against us and our popular government as he is pleased injuriously to terme it for making store of worke in our congregations in hearing debating examining all matters till all be satisfied which will take up saith he not an hower or two in a weeke nor in every day of the weeke nor scarce all the whole weeke time will suffice to finish businesse in that kind that may fall out and tire Ministers and People and breake the Sabbath by keeping Courts thereon c. And so goes on at random to speake evill of things he knowes not whereas many of our Churches are oft for many dayes together and weekes and moneths also free from such heapes of matters as he dreames of and oftentimes from any at all But this is his dealing first he makes an Article of his own for words matter manner with divers universalls in it expresly contrary to the truth and without one word of authority for it and then drawes his own collections from it with course language and bitter invectives In Art 11. he deales exceeding ill at least in 6. particulars in this one Article 1. He represents us to the world as a people unsetâ—ed and strangely divided amongst our selves in the way of voting Some saith he affirme that the major part carries matters others that unlesse all doe agree nothing proceeds some that things are not carryed by voyces at all but by truth and according to God 1. Let the Reader note well Answer that our Narrator undertakes to relate the Opinions and practises generally held by the Churches in New-England as in the title pag. 1. And that the Churches in New-England walke in one way And yet here he brings 3 relations crossing each other of our practises in a very materiall point of Discipline How can the Churches practise one way and yet goe 3. contrary wayes at once and how can he truly relate such things as are generally held by all the Churches and yet tells us how they hold and practise 3. severall things at the same time For I confesse if he had undertaken to declare the practises of some particular men only and not of Churches or of some Churches not of the Churches of New-England in generall Or if all those Churches were not of one and the same way but he professeth they are and that without any materiall difference then his taske were easier to show how they walke in 3. severall waies at once But now I leave him to untie the knot and save his credit 2. Here he pretends to bring Authors to prove that the Churches in New-England ☞ who walke in one and the same way doe walke in 3. severall waies Doe his Authors speake true how then doe we walke in one and the same way without any materiall difference as he said when he would make his advantage by it doe they speake false why then doth he bring such for the ground of his Narrative that so abuse him and us or else doth he mistake their words or falsifie them that is worst of all In either of which we must needs innocently suffer Here you see his speech verified in his Postscript pag. 50. That whether the reports he brings be true or false it 's nothing to him 3. Now we will scan his Authors quoted to see whether the blame lies on them or himselfe the first pretended proofe is Ans to 32. q. pag. 60. 61. 62. That the whole body must agree else nothing can be done Whereas this Author saith no such thing but the contrary rather that is That if the whole body accord not at first but the minor part disagreeth there are other means partly within themâ—â—lves and partly by calling in helpâ— from other Churches to bring matters to an issue This plainly sheweth that some things may be done when all agree not The 2. proofe is for this That some things are not carryed by voâ—â—es at all but by truth and right according to God And cites Ans to 32. q 58 60. who saith to this effâ—ct that the word is the only rule whereby all Churâ—h votes are carryed and that matters are not to be carryed only that is farre enough from not a all by multitudâ—s of voices For though the word of truth we all grant be the only rule of Church proceedings yet the means of all transactions in our Church must be the lively voices of the Saints c. Thus his proofs failing who must be the father of this untruth cast upon New-England you may well judge ☞ 4. Note yet further whereas he quotes Ans to 32. q. 61. to prove that unlesse all agree nothing can be done Yet from the same Author and selfe-same page in the end of this same 11. Art he concludes that though some diâ—agree yâ—t matters may bâ— ended and the rest proceed That as he often speakes contrary to himselfâ— so he can make his Author doe the same if he list and can as ships use to doe at sea saile contrary waies with the same winde 5. And yet which is worse then the other he would seeme to hide and cloake this deaâ—ing of his and lay the fault upon our variablenesse and say sometimes they grant c. as if we were like the wind sâ—metimes one way and somâ—timâ—s another yet all is from the same Author in the same page at the same time And often you will find this word sometime to be brought in throughout the booke in the same sense as here to make the world beleeve that our judgements and practises are variable and to defend him selfe from a blow in case he be questioned 6. If a lesser number saith he dissent from the greater neither can give satisfaction to them or will receive it from them and è contra but still persist in dissenting then the major part after due forbearance and calling in the counsell of neighbouring Churches admonish and censure them This he saith in the Margent is harsh dealing and uncharitable and foolish yea destructive and spares no words that might lay loade upon us Yea but it may be his grounds for proofe are sound and so he may be the more bold to blame us but he cites onely Answer to 32. q. 58. 61. whose words are If it appeares that such â—s dissent from the maior part be factiously or partially carried and after the rest have laboured to convince them by the rule yet still they continuâ— obstinate they are admonished c. Now speak W. R. is this faire dealing first to pretend proofes ☜ leave out the most materiall words and secondly blame us for harshnesse when there is no
termes contradictory and how the Churches of New-England for they are still the subject of this discourse can binde all their members to bee setled and yet allow some to bee transient I know not Hee must grant either a contradiction in his owne words or prove one in our practise 2. He affirmes we say That whosoever is not a member of such a Church as is before described i. e. A New-England Church is for the time without the visible Church of Christ and quotes Ans to 32 q. pag. 11. That Author is abused for hee saith not Answer that non-members of such a Church as you described i. e. of a N. E. Church are without the visible Church â—ns to 32. q. 38. but that if men be not members of some particular Church or other they may in some respect be said to bee without the power and priviledges of the visible Church as the Answ to 9. pos p. 62. to which this Author points makes it evident Now W. R. I hope knowes we hold there are other particular congregations both in England and else where besides our owne that are true Churches of Christ of any of which if they be members it is sufficient to make them within the visible Church of Christ Yet see how against our expressed judgements plaine words and the minde of his Authors hee would make us odious by laying such a grosse tenent to our charge 3. That whosoever doe not become setled members of our Churches are accounted despisers c. yea wicked and prophane â—nswer Hee againe rowles the same unhappy stone he did once before cap. 3. art 12. but you will say sure his proofes are strong which make him bold to assert this now the second time Therefore I intreate the Reader but to review his proofs which I will relate verbatim Ans to 9. Pos 62. is one of them he brings which saith thus We maintaine communion with all godly persons though they be not in Church fellowship with us and Idem p. 69. To be without Church fellowship is the case of some beleevers and Ans to 32. q. 11. is another of his quoted Authors whose words are these Some Christians that are not without Christ yet are not within any particular Church ☞ These are the Authors and pages he brings to prove the cleane contrary i. e. that we account all non-members wicked and prophane men and yet they directly say Some such are godly persons beleevers Christ c. Yea he hath an expression as he layes it downe exceeding grosse which is this That whosoever doth not become a setled member if possibly he can sinneth And marke what followeth whether he can or no he is accounted prophane and wicked He would make us up for the most absurd men that ever lived that whether mâ—n can possibly for so his word is inioy Church fellowship or no he is counted a prophane man But the blemish will and must needs fall upon himselfe To Marg. of 1. Art hee propounds 5 questions concerning transient members 1. Q. If it be very inconvenient and discommodious to ioyne at present may they not delay a while He answereth we say no but the place to which he points Ans to 32. 〈◊〉 quest p. 38. saith not so but thus A man is alwaies bound to join himselfe to some Church or other if possibly he can Now doth not W. R. know there is a pâ—ssibility of convenience which the Answer must needs meane for it 's a constant and allowed course in New-England for more to forbeare joyning to any Church for a time after they come thither meerly to avoyd discommodious inconveniencies which over hasty joyning sometimes puts men upon 2. Quest Why doe we not give the same liberty to all to be transient Mâ—mbers as we doe to some Ans Because all are not so free to abide with this or that Church where they joyne at present as others are by reason of some strong desires and pre-ingagements of joyning with some other congregation which at present they cannot remove unto or else the other as yet not entred into Church-fellowship and so unfit to receive them at present 3. Quest How doth this agree with the tenour of the Covenant that limits no timâ— Ans There may be and is such a clause put into the Covenant of a transient member viz. during their abode with that congregation Quest 4. How doth this agree with the sense of the Covenant that binds them to aske counsell of the Church in case of removeall Ans I know not what informations he hath received I should know our practise as well as W. R. after my 10. yeers experience having beene present at very many Church-gatherings but I never heard or heard of such a clause put into any Covenant and yet three times in his booke he mentionâ— this Let him learne hereafter 1. to be slow in beleeving informations 2 slower to print them to the world 3. ready to retract them if nor done already He saith Art 5 That if the examiners conceive a man not fit to enter into Church fellowâ—â—â—p thâ—â— he is there staid without any further proceedings He should hâ—ve added only for the present else he leaves the Reader to conceive that such a person is staid from Church fellowship for ever which himsâ—â—â—e knowes to be untrue as appeares by his own words in the 7. Art w â—re he saith that such a Person is staid only for a time whiles all things are cl ared To his Margent Art 7. That if the party be a Woman or weake who is to be admitted then their examination are taken more privately Answer Is not this contradictory to what he said Chap. 3 Art 6. ☜ That the declaration of their knowledge and grace must be made in publique before all the Church though never so many Now to presse all to make their declaration before the whole Assembly yet to accept of some weaker ones doing of it more privatly which indeed is the truth are a contradiction Here he makes two objections Objection 1 How shall the Church know the fitnesse of such i. e. as are examined in private Answ By the testimony of such godly men whom they betrust with their triall who though they have not absolute power to determine yet making such report to the Church as they accept the Church proceede to admit them â—bject Why is this favour shewen to some not to others is not this to be partiall contrary to 1 Tim. 5.21 Answ Partiality is to respect the Person not the cause here the cause is respected not the Person or the Person for the cause Some being more weake and fearfull we rather tender as Jacob would not overdrive the feabler sort of Ewes and lambes lest they should miscarry Art 9. He reports That infants of parents that are no members are accounted to be without the visible Church and in the same estate with the Children of Turkes and Heathens c.
How is it possible that both these parts should be true can New-England Churches count the same men at the same time to be true Christians and yet prophane and wicked See what a story this must needes be that is thus full of contradictions to it selfe and in no small and triviall things but in the greatest points of our Church Discipline He saith againe Art 4. 5. That we say that the Sacraments and some other Church Ordinances are to be administred and doe belong only to the members of the same Church and not to the members of any other Churches Hee speakes flatly contrary to this cap. 10. Art 1. in these words Answ We grant that severall Churches have a communion amongst themselves in some Church-ordinances as Sacraments how can both be true They hold and they hold not They do they do not speaking still of the Churches of New England generally without the least restraint or distinction yea as if hee had studied to make his contradiction full he expresly and in both parts of it mentioneth the Sacraments that wee deny communion in speciall in Sacraments and we grant a communion in speciall in the Sacraments and againe this communion saith he is neither betwixt Ministers nor members and this communion is both betwixt Ministers and members And both of them within a leafe one of the other in his booke W. R. himselfe must of necessity grant one of these three things either 1 a manifest contradiction by himselfe in a maine point in his story Or 2. that his Authors or intelligences have written or spoken contrary concerning our way And so a man would thinke hee hath little ground in conscience to build his Narration upon their testimony Or thirdly that hath abused them at his pleasure and warped their words to what sense he list all which are very ill in a Narrator Furthermore I here confidently avouch and shall make it good that those printed writers by him cited are all consistent to themselves in this point of administration of Sacraments to members of other Churches and not one of them crossing another or himself Therefore I must againe but with griefe of heart to lay such load on a brother lay this dealing upon him in the sight of all that have beene misled by his Narration Nay I will say more If I can not prove plainly that these Authors cited doe not only not justifie him but write point-blanck against him I will beare the blame vid. Ans 9. Pos 62. We doe not say they appropriate the seales only to members of our own Church excluding all other Churches of Christ and Cot. Cat. p. 7. The supper saith he is dispenced to the faithfull of the same body or recommended to them by a like body and Ans to 9. Pos 78. in these words The members of other Churches doe mutually communicate at each others Churches even as often as Gods providence leades them and they desire it Lastly if all this be not enough to open his abusing us the truth I will go further to shew you that he still cites the very same Author to prove both parts of this contradiction and this is no new thing but frequent with him For in cap. 9. Art 1. he cites Ans to 9. Pos 62. to prove we hold communion with other Churches and their members and also cap. 10. 1. he cites the same Author and page for one Churches communion with another in the Sacrament But herein Art 5. when hee would prove the contrary i. e. that we hold no communion with other Church members in the Sacrament he brings the selfe same Author and page for that end i. e. Ans to 9. Pos pag. 62 c. And thus he doth not with that mentioned one Author only but serves the rest in like manner as Ans to 32. q. Apol. R.M. to E.B. must all come in to avouch both parts of his contradiction the one in chap. 10. 1. for communion the other in Art 4. 5. of this 9. chap. against Communion And this he doth not this once onely but in other places in this booke as we have shewed and shall againe and yet these Authors give him no occasion thereto but speake all the selfe same thing plainely and constantly without any variation He saith Art 7. We hold that a man that is sui juris may not lawfully stand a member of such a Church in which he cannot enioy all Gods ordinances or where any corruption is suffered but if he be ioyned to it he must separate from it Answer The Narratour knowes in his owne conscience that this is not spoken by his cited Author of our Churches in New-England but of the Parish Churches in Old-England nor of all the Churches in Old-England but of such onely where a man either cannot enjoy some ordinances of God or else live there without sinfull conformity for this was written by his Author in the time of the Bishops reigne 2. He alters the Authors words and meaning and that grossely for hee saith we hold a man must not continue in such a Church where any corruption is suffered unreformed But his Author saith in such parish assemblies where a man shall and must himselfe conforme to those corruptions there his standing is unlawfull Ans to 32. q. 32. So hee leaves out the very nerves and strength of the place which is the ground of our both with drawing i. e. a necessity of sinning You find him againe strongly pleading for imposed formes of Prayer Leiturgies Art 8. with it's Marg. This is the fourth time he hath harped on this string 1. he was for Overtures 2. for a kinde of N. E. Primer in admissions of members 3. for booke prayers 4. now and that more fully then before for imposed prayers and set Leiturgies whither he will goe next I know not If God had not pittifully left him to himselfe in this Narration I am confident he would not have come thus farre as to have used such arguments as these that if we in New-England allow set formes of Psalmes and of blessings of the people and formes of Church-covenants and of Catechising c. Why not as well set formes of prayers imposed But to this having answered before I leave him to the Father of truth to shew him his error Answer to CHAP. X. ARt 1. he saith and that truely Wee grant that severall Churches have a communion amongst themselves whereby they doe and may partake with each other in the Sacraments Of the contradiction betweene this and and chap. 9. Art 4 5. Answ it is spoken to already Only here note 1 the fulnes of affirmation in this Art for our communion with other Churches in the Sacrament we have saith he a communion amongst our selves 2 in the Sacraments in speciall 3 with severall Churches 4 we do and may partake 5 each with other 6 mutually 7 and this both betwixt Ministers and people 8 we not only practise this but grant
it may be so And yet when he comes to speake of the other part of the contradiction i. e. that we have no communion in the Sacraments as if he studied to crosse himself he is as full in his deniall of it vid. cap. 9. Art 4 5. 2. Note how thicke his sayings and unsayings fall in Cap. 9. Art 1. ☜ He affirmes we hold Communion with other Churches and Church members and then presently in 4 5. Art of the very same chap. he expresly denies that we hold any such communion Then againe in the very next chap. the 10. Art 1. he saith as full as can be that we hold communion mutually with other Churches and by in chap. 12. 8. as fully and expressely denies againe that we hold any such thing The man being an able and judicious man in other things it is more remarkable he should be thus extreamely left to confound himselfe while he sought to confound our poore innocent Churches Let any carefully observe in all these things mentioned whether I have not dealt candidly with him or no. Art 2. He reports 1 That one Church may give power to another over any of her members for excommunication 2 That the Minister of one Church may convey power to the Ministers of another for the administration of the Sacraments Answer Neither of both which doe wee hold or practise The onely Author cited that we can come at is Cot. Cat. p. 7. whose words are these The Supper is dispenced by the Minister to the faithfull of the same Church or to such as are cōmended to them by a like body See if here be one tittle to bear him out Yet from these assertions which he saith we hold he flings rebukes upon us in his comments upon his owne Text. p. 37. whereas indeede wee might reprove his 1 misreporting 2 abusing his Author 3 reproving us without cause Without letters of recommendation from one Church and Minister to another it is unlawfull saith he Art 3. in any case to administer any Church ordinance to any Church member but their owne upon any pretence whatsoever 1. Here is neither truth nor proofe to be seene Answ 2. Letters of recommendation for publique participation are not sent from one Minister to another but from a Church to a Church 3. We hold it not unlawfull but doe often practise to receive other members to communion with us without letters especially if they bee knowne to any of our Church else such letters are desireable but hee saith We doe it not in any case upon any pretence whatsoever which is utterly false and without proofe He tells us That wee are so strait-laced that if a company of godly people should sit neere us where our power reacheth differing from us only in some points of Church-Government they should not onely not be owned as a sister Church but should be in danger of severe punishment by our Magistrate Ans 1 If you weigh well this accusation of us in all the particulars it is very harsh and sore and here is no proofe but H. W. who this should be I professe I cannot tell unlesse some malignant or back-friend amongst us there or whether such a thing were ever written in these words and sense I know not and if it be certainly so written and from a godly man yet it is but one single witnesse and I am forbidden and so are all others 1 Tim. 5.19 to receive an accusation against one Elder much more against all the Elders and Churches in New-England without two or three witnesses therefore we dare not beleeve it 2. To this very point in hand the Ans to 32. 9. p. 82 83. speakes fully and fairely which W. R. well knowing for it was written to himselfe amongst others deales not candidly to conceale that Answer of a printed booke from known Authors of credit in New-England because it is faire and loving for what other ground could hee have and bring in the Answer of H.W. a man we know not which is harsh and distastfull how can the concealing of that and relating of this seeme ingenuous or friendly to us or the truth Answer to CHAP. XI HE makes report of a groundlesse course as he calles it in the Church at Cambridge in New-England where saith he the people use to meet together privately each one to hold forth the work of grace in his or her soule from the first conversion to that day so that their Pastour might know their growth in grace And saith also that as some report the end of this meeting was to cast out by excommunication non-proficients Ans With what face can any godly man call such meetings of the Saints for such an holy end as to try their growth in grace a groundlesse meeting and so cast dirt upon it for he makes proofe of no other end besides that 2. Did these godly people ever cast any out of the Church there meerely for non-proficiency 3. He hath still forgotten that rule in 1 Tim. 3.19 that requires two or three witnesses to bee brought forth c. who yet proceeds upon I know not what relations to beleeve and report yea and print to the view of the world what in his opinion may detract from a Reverend Elder and a godly Church also No marvell he calls his Book a poore pamphlet truly it is so indeed if all things we have discovered in it be well weighed and it will appeare yet poorer before we have done to any candid reader It is our humble suit to heaven that God will discover to himselfe the weakenes and error of his dealings herein for the humbling of his spirit Answer to CHAP. XII A Short Answer might serve to this long Chapter for most of it as also of the two next is but a repetition of things spoken once or twice some of them thrice before and answered to already He said in the beginning of his preface he wanted not work◠but it seemes now towards the end of his booke he is more at leasure and so hee thinkes his reader is also else why he should so double treble the very same things totidem verbis I know not unlesse happily to make a deeper impression of his owne mistakes in his reader In Art 1. he tells us that after a Church is gathered it is often some yeares before she addresseth her selfe to the calling of Officers Whereas it is our usuall and constant course as hath beene said not to gather any Church untill they have one amongst themselves Ans fit for a Minister whom with all speede they call into Office and account themselves a lame and imperfect body till that be effected In his Marg. on that Art he saith hee is told to his comfort that many that were counted good Ministers in Old-England are there layed aside because they aime at men of speciall parts 1. We desire proofe for this aspersion unjustly cast on us Answ or else we shall still father it upon himselfe as
wall let him take heed least by a divine hand they rebound back For the three instances in the Magent I looke upon them as so many slaunders for which by rule hee is to give us an account for whereas by Pauls rule 1 Tim. 5.19 he is to produce two or three witnesses for one accusation yet he makes three severall accusations and that of three Churches without any one witnesse therefore till the true father appeares we must still lay the brat at his doore Answer to CHAP. XIII TO 1 Art Of private men prophecying c. It is answered before for this is his fifth time of repeating it even to loathing It is high time to have done with it now But the oftner he hath said his lesson the worse he hath learned it for there is scarce one right word in this Art either consonant to the truth or his Authors quoted for it as I shall make it appeare by comparing his article with the Authors words ☞ â—t Cat. p. 6. â—lles them â—ophets his 1 Author is Ans to 32. q. p. 77. 78. first W. R. saith this prophecying is done by meere private men His Authour tells us men haply indued with a gift of Prophecy 2 Hee saith they preach for confutation as if they must bee polemicall men able to wade through controversies But not one word of that in the Author 3 He saith they expound and apply the word with all authority but no word sounding that way in the Author these words with all authority being properly applyed by Paul to the offâ—câ—rs not to the Prophets Tit. 2.15 4 He saith this Prophecying is ordinary the Author saith they are not called to Prophecying ordinarily if by ordinary he meanes frequently and usually but sparingly and seldome frequently when the Officers arâ— sicke or absent c. His other Author cited is Mr. Cot. Cat. p. 6. and as in the other quotations he added diverse particulars of his own which the Author never mentioned So in this as corruptly he leaves out many materiall things which would have given light to the point in hand To instance such saith Mr Cot. as prophecy must 1 be allowed for Prophets 2 not prophecy till the Elders have done 3 not unlesse the time permit 4 and then also they must be first called thereunto by the Elders But W. R. hath not one word of all these that so much serve to cleare our practise Grant a Narratour but this liberty to adde alter and abstract as hee please and when he please and then what kind of Narration doe you thinke will he make had I time to anotomize all his Articles as I have done this and compare his proofes I should make him appeare more fully but I give onely a touch for brevity 2. He would heere cast a blur by saying there is a booke printed called a Sermon preached at Plymouth by a comber of wooll But I intreat the Reader to put him to his proofes for he produceth no other grounds but I am certified so he might scandalize all the Churches in the world 3. He comes in with some of them tells us that Prophecying is seldome used that so he might cast a blot on us as if we were at variance amongst our selves which course he often takes and that some of us are for frequent others for seldome Prophecying and yet do but marke the man it is not Authors and Authors he quotes to prove this as one would thinke hee should but only one and the same Author which he quoted before and which is more this Author not one haires breadth varying in his speech He saith in this Marg. 1 that some of our people have their farmes so farre from the Assembly that they cannot possibly come every Sabbath day hardly any to the word 2 that the people of late growe more violent in claiming their pretended liberty of prophecying 3 deserting and contemning their owne Ministers and Churches because they are not suffered to injoy it I should know New-England as well as I. P. or M. B. or any of his informers Answer but I solemnely here professe and with a safe conscience avouch it that I know no truth in any of all these particulars asserted but rather the contrary unlesse haply in those of the Island or such as adheare to theÌ„ who he knowes well â—re not of us whose waies and spirits are as grievous to our Churches as to himselfe why should he impute their practises to us more then the opinions of the Antinomians and Familists here in London to the godly Ministers and people of the city I will lay this as all other calumnious aspersions ungroundedly cast upon our Churches upon his back as the raiser of them untill he produceth two or three witnesses before us that will avouch them according to Pauls rule 1 Tim 5.19 To Art 2. After their Preaching saith he they take upon them to blesse the people III. as the Ministers doe I desire his grounds and proofes for here hee brings none Answer nor in any other place that I can finde but the contrary hee well knowes i. e. that Answer to 32. q. 38. whom he hath often quoted expresly saith that blessing the people in the name of the Lord is an act proper to our Officers which no member may presume to doe To Art 3. We have saith he a course before our dismission i. e. of the Assembly to give leave to any publikely to propound their doubts make their objections and to argue pro and con and in his Marg. makes a grievous and bitter outcry against us for so doing and adds also that it is an abrupt course at first dash openly to implead the Minister of error before all the people and that it is scandalous and reproachfull it argues not so much civility piety charity nor prudence c. Answer â—de 9. 1. If a better then himself durst not reproach one worse then our selves though he had ground enough to have done it I hope then W. R. dare not without any ground at alâ— bring these sore accusations against so many Churches But what his proofes are you shall see Mr. Cot. Cat. p. 6. whose words are these It may bee lawfull for any except women to aske questions at the month of the Prophets 1 Mr. Cot. speakes onely of asking questions of the Prophets i. e. such members as prophecy he adds of the Ministers also 2. Mr. Cot. seemes to speake of the matter then delivered only for he mentions no other He adds matters formerly delivered also 3 Mr. Cot. excepts women He saith leave is given to any without exception 4 Mr. Cot. speakes soberly it may be lawfull hee speakes peremptorily wee have a course c. 5 Mr. Cot. allowes only to aske questions but he adds a bedroule of his owne to make us odious they may saith he obiect argue pro and con about any matter c. yea they doe abruptly at the first dash openly implead the Minister
of error delivered before all the people So as it is a scandall to the people a reproach to the Minister c. all this is his own addition Then for the other cited Author Answer to 32 q. 78 he deales more grosely with him then the former who is in a manner point-blanck against him yet hee boldly gives him up for an Author his words are these we never knew any Minister that did call upon the people thus to doe i. e. to propound questions and such calling upon them is farre from us some thinke the people have a liberty to aske a question upon very urgent and weighty cause none iudge the ordinary practise of it necessary but if not meekely and wisely carried inconvenient if not utterly unlawfull and therefore such asking of questions is seldome used in any in most Churches neere True it is in the times of the opinions some were bold in this kinde but these men are long since gone the Synod and Sermons have reproved this disorder so that a man may now live from one end of the yeere to another in these congregations and not heare any man opening his mouth in such kind of questions These the Authors words ☞ Now good reader do us the favour to give righteous judgement whether these words cited by him make for him or against him where is 1 giving leave 2 a course of giving leave 3 to any 4 to obiect and urge pro and con and 6 which is horribly grosse to implead the Minister of error at the first dash and that openly before all the people c. Whereas his own cited Authors tells him the contrary 1 That it is done not often but seldome 2 Not many questions but a question 3 Not upon sleight but weighty and very urgent grounds 4 Not rashly and boldly but wisely and meekely 5 And this not perâ—mptorily concluded of by all but some only thinke they have a liberty 6 And not that it is now so much done but was for a time by the bold opinionist who are now chased away long agoe See what a vast gulfe betwixt the Author and W. R. Now for him to reade over distinctly all these expressions in this booke for that answer was written to himselfe from godly men in New-England yet to produce it as a proofe for his Art and the Marg. which in common sence is contrary to it I stand amazed at it and wonder with what face he could print it or having done it how he can let his book be kept from the fire thus long Yet further note our Narratour undertakes to relate only such Church-courses as are generally by the Churche in New-England practised as pag. 1. title How then can he with honesty bring in this asking of questions amongst such kind of generall Church courses of ours whereas his Author plainely saith this asking of questions is not Generally practised nor by all the Churches but sildome in any Church and in most Churches never at all and that one may live as he saith from one end of the yeere to another in our congregations and not here any man open his mouth in such kind of questions What will not W. R. boldly attempt against his brethren of the independent way and their Churches that cites these very words I have related to prove such Church courses in New-England as are generally practised amongst us Answer to CHAP. XIIII TO Marg. on the Title Some saith he grow shie of the word independent some utterly renounce it yet most owne it Answer If the word bee rightly taken as in Answer to 32. q. 46. it 's expounded for one Church that is not under the power of another or in subjection to a Presbyterie but as having received power from Christ to governe her selfe according to his lawes Then all accord to it But if the word Independent bee abusively taken as it is often with the vulgar for such a Society as are neither subject to Magistracy nor regard the counsel of other Churches but are a conceipted and selfe-sufficient people that stand onely on their owne leggs Then wee have cause to be shie of a word that may render us odious without cause To Marg. of 1 Art That wee have store of imperative Churches who may command yea compell both members and Ministers to act Ans Another slaunder without ground or proofe or truth which I leave here upon record God our consciences and our Brethren bearing us witnesse how tender our Churches are but to perswade men to act without light much more to command or compell both which very words though the thing required were lawfull are odious in the Churches of Christ most fitly becomming the Synagogues of Antichrist Hath hee a lycense to speake any thing To Art 2. We hold our Church power absolute and imperiall Answ All we use to speake of our Church-power is that it is ministeriall which is farre from absolute and imperiall words fitter for Emperours of this world then the Churches of the Saints I charge it on his conscience as in the sight of God either to make this appeare or else vindicate us as becomes an honest Christian to doe And for his two printed Authors cited for we cannot come at his private letters if there be any one word or shew of ground from them to maintaine his speech Let me beare the shame of it for I here avouch the contrary under my hand To Art 3. and Marg. That we deny all representation of Churches absent and all authoritative deputation of Messengers to act for them â—nsw 1. The Reader may well see it is his own saying not ours for he brings no proofe but from Barrow and Johnson who cannot well give in their testimony for our Church waies in New-England because they never came there yea were in their graves both or one long before ever wee had a beeing in New-England 2. There is no truth in it for we hold a Church may delegate some men and send them forth in their names and stead with authority to act for them in this or that particular businesse of trust as Act. 15.2 And yet he hath boldly now twise or thrise affirmed the same thing of us and brings no proofe at all for it and it is answered before cap. 2. Art 3. Marg. Yet some tells us saith he that Mr. P. and Mr. W. were sent hither by the Churches to negotiate for them c. Answ 1. Some tell us Sir you are a man of judgement and gravity able to instruct others You know you may not blemish your brethren and slâ—nder Churches upon such poore and weake grounds as it is reported I am informed some tell us And yet how oft in your booke have you used this course of dealing towards your bretbren and their Churches Some tell us indeede is warrant enough for people that have no other businesse to make three farthing bookes of and thereby fill the world with tales but oh farre be
it from any Reverend brother to blot his paper so unwarrantably 2. Though your ground of this report be weake yet it seemes your credence is strong for you make inferences from these premises against us And as your ground is bad so your end in relating of it is as bad i. e. to cast a blot upon our Churches as if their practises did crosse their principles 3. What will you say now W. R. if your informations prove false as indeede they doe for neither did their owne Churches nor all the Churches send Mr. P. and Mr. W. but the whole state of New-England or Generall Court with one consent upon some speciall imployments which cannot yet be all finished Now I have told you the truth let me give you a few Animadversions 1 Bestow to beleeve ought against your brethren hereafter 2 Slower to report it to others 3 But never print it without manifest grounds and a good call 4 If you have done otherwise be swift to recall it To Marg. of Art 4. wherein he disputes against us about our non-communion or withdrawing our selves from other Churches in case of obstinacy by two arguments 1. Because non-communion is in substance the very same with Synodicall excommunications Object 1 and by it he saith a man is cast out of the Church and given up to Satan as well as by excommunication If it be so W. R. 1 Why have you said so oft in opposition to our way that our Churches have no power over one another Ans when as our Churches have a power to withdraw by non-communion and that withdrawing say you is as much as your Synodicall excommunication 2 Why do you so sleight our Churches counsells admonitions to other churches as not being authoritative Whereas if they be not obeyed it seemes they can passe as sore a censure as all your Synodicall Authority For you can doe no more by it then excommunicate and so farre you say we can proceede 3. Why then doe you call us abusively Independants for by your saying it stands us in hand to depend as much upon other Churches for counsell and admonition as you on a Presbyterie or Synod or they will give us up to Satan as well as a Synod 4. Why then doe not you accord with us in this point of Non-communion seeing in it your selves and we can comfortably close rather then strive with your brethren for Synodicall excommunication to which their judgements cannot yeeld seeing that is the same in effect with this This being attended to will end a great part of the difference Obj. But whiles we oppose Synodicall excommunication we establish it saith he by standing for non-communion it being the same in effect with the other ibid. Though W. R. thinkes they are both one I cannot For that is positive Ans this only negative That a sentence passed This not so That a cutting off from Churchdom at least for present a giving up to Satan c. This only a cessatioÌ„ of conferring Church priviledges c. By the one the Churches withdraw and call in that only which once they gave which is the right hand of fellowship by the other the Synod or Classis take away that which they never gave or had power to bestow which is the excommunicates membership in their own Church So that when we stand for the one as having no rule to carry us further we doe not establish the other This is his first argument against us about non-communion The second that it is more cruell and more dangerous then Synodall excommunication Ans Me thinks this seemes strange seeing it is a lighter and lesser punishment then the other by Non-communion A man is only let go into the world where Satans walkes are by Synods excom hee is given up and cast to Satan to terrifie and vexe him But his arguments for the cruelty and danger of Non-communion are these foure Reasons 1. Because by this whole Churches saith he may come to be cast out Ans So they may as well by a Synod excommunication for if a Synod hath power to cast out one member of other Churches then by the same reason 2. 6. 10. and so a whole Church as well and Churches too for where will you stop 2. By this saith he the Church deserted is left to it selfe in their error Ans Looke what meanes publique or private a Synod may use for any man or Churches regaining the very same meanes to the highest extent may the other Churches use likewise 3 This causeth endles rents Ans Shew in any point wherein or why more then the other 4 This saith he hinders not the infection of others but that by cutting off the rotten members the rest are kept sound Answ Doe not this crosse what he said before that by non-communion a man is cast out and delivered up to Satan yet here hee denies it Ob. Popular Governement is one cause of Schismes in New-England and quotes Mr. Parkers letter Answ Blessed be God that under that Governement of ours which you call or rather miscall Popular the very neck of Schisms and vile opinions brought to us from hence was broken When here amongst you where there is not such a Governement they walke bolt upright amongst you and crowe aloud You shall doe better to lay aside this objection till a Presbyterian Government have healed these sore breaches in these Churches here Answer to CHAP. XV. ARticle 1. saith We hold the Magistrate cannot lawfully compell men to enter into a Covenant with God Answ It appeares by his Margent he meanes a Nationall Covenant But you must take his owne words as for proofe he brings none and I beleeve hee cannot but Barr. and Rob. which never came there and the Apologie which as he saith lies by him As long as I lived there I never heard or knew the Churches held so But he must have leave to say any thing Marg. saith that many of us hold the Magistrate hath nothing to doe in matters of Religion Let him know and all others that all the Churches with us doe abhorre that vile opinion Some I beleeve Answ of Road-Island some others banished from us doe hold so but those are gone out from us and are not of us as it is said 1 John 2.19 If he had considered this distinction of the blessed Apostle hee durst not have said many of us hold so This must goe amongst other aspersions to be revoked of and recalled Art 2. That we hold that Christians may and ought to set up new Churchâ—s and practise in them all Gods ordinances and that 1 without the consent of a Christian State 2 yea against their commands 3 their peremptorie cammands ☜ 4 and against the established lawes of that State 5 yea and in the midst of and against the mindes of such Churches as we freely acknowledge the true Churches of God He reserved a strange Article for the last If I had not read it Ans I
could scarse have beleeved it possible hee should have written it no penne can expresse a greater latitude of opposition agaist Magistracy and lawes and Churches too then here he affirmes to be in us if you review the six parcells mentioned you will see it To all which I say 1 there is neither truth in it nor any proofe of all for any of these six except the first But God and men our consciences writings our professions and constant practises will rebuke testifie against this misreport For now you would in reason expect some proofes would you not for this accusation ☜ You shall heare his cited Author himselfe speake Answ to 32. q p. 35 36. which saith thus Observing the things commanded of God in a peaceable way yeelding due reverence to all in Authority I praying for them This observing Gods Ordinances cannot bee unlawfull for lacke of the command of man The scope of all his Author speakes is this That Christians may observe Gods Ordinances though they have no command from the Magistrate so to do now where is doing of this against his commands His peremptory command yea against his lawes and established lawes and not the lawes of an Heathen but a Christian State and not against a State only but against the mindes of all the Churches of God amongst us These are all his owne additions that so he might loade his brethren with contempt How durst he bring in all these words as his Authors and yet he knowes they all are his owne 2. As it is against truth and without ground â—o it is contrary to himselfe and his owne words Chap. 5. Art 2. and Art 4. where he expresseth that notice must bee and is given to the Magistrates and Churches before their joyning in Church fellowship Yet here in this Art he saith we hold 〈◊〉 and ought to doe it without their consents and against their minds how can thâ—se agree And whereas he quotes R. M. to prove that before Churches joynâ— they give notice thereof to the Magistrate and other Churches yet here he bring the same R. M to prove we may and doe joyne without their consent Let this also be noted that he speakes not only of our judgement what we hold we may and ought to doe in this case but of our practise also what we doe as appeares in last words of the Margent wee looke he should make that good also i. e. that in our practise wee doe thus oppose State and Churches in our joyning in Church fellowship 5. He againe crosseth himselfe for in this Art hee saith wee hold that Christians may ought to set up new Churches against the minds of other Churches and yet he in his Marg. saith that we deny them i. e. himselfe and some others any liberty to doe thus Ans He must prove either that we hold him and the rest no Christians or that we crosse our own rules and principles or else freely acknowledge a mistake in his word Thus having done with his Booke I should now come to the Postscript which I was fully purposed to have answered also But now seeing my booke farre beyond expectation swelling I should be loath to tire out the Reader besides I have touched upon many things therin already and the rest most of them being built upon his booke must of themselves fall with it and yet if it be requisite and worth the while I shall be ready to doe it when I see cause A Postscript to W. R. NOw I intreate you in the bowels of Christ and the spirit of meekenesse to review your own worke weigh my Answer without prejudice and consider well how many pretious Saints and godly Churches deare to Christ persecuted heretofore by Prelats loving to your selfe without their least stimulation of you in this kind you have in your Narration extremely wronged whether through over-much credulity incogitancie or otherwise I dispute not Sure I am it is done and so done that it is almost incredible as one would thinke but you should now at least see your error which if God shall open your eyes in whole or in part to doe as I humbly beseech him you may it will bee your honour â—xod 21. â—3 34. and no small argument of your selfe deniall to recall There was a law in Israel that he that digged a pit was not to leave it open but cover it else what ever dammage happened he was to make it good You are able to make application Solomon Austin c. never gained so much as by their retractations There are some sinnes God will not sense up the pardon of till satisfaction be made by the party Defamation is one of them It wil be no griefe of heart but much comfort to remember when you are about to leave this world that although through praecipitancy you did blemish your Brethren yet after consideration you did againe as readily wipe away the blot by a brotherly vindication as for as truth required which if â—â—â—ter conviction you shall for beare to do upon what pretence soever how will you be able to lye downe in your grave in peace FINIS