Selected quad for the lemma: truth_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	believe_v	faith_n	reason_n	7,423	5	5.8303	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A45835	Vindiciæ veritatis, or, An impartial account of two several disputations the one being on the 12th. and the other on the 26th of February, 1671. between Mr. Danson a non-conformist minister, and Mr. Ives, upon this question, (viz) whether the doctrine of the possibility of some true believers final apostacy, be true, or no? Published to prevent false reports. Together with an appendix; in which the said question is more fully resolved in the affirmative, and the absurd[i]t[i]es of the negative opinion detected from the pens of divers of the patrons of it. By a lover of truth and peace.; Contention for truth	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1672 (1672)	Wing I1106A; ESTC R218068	84,282	219

manner_n that_o any_o believer_n be_v hear_v when_o he_o pray_v for_o his_o enemy_n because_o there_o be_v in_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o prayer_n there_o be_v a_o submission_n to_o the_o will_n of_o god_n as_o to_o those_o thing_n which_o the_o particular_a decree_n and_o council_n of_o god_n do_v not_o appear_v about_o mr._n ives_n do_v he_o know_v whether_o these_o people_n will_v believe_v or_o not_o believe_v when_o he_o pray_v for_o they_o mr._n danson_n there_o be_v some_o thing_n that_o christ_n be_v ignorant_a of_o as_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n because_o christ_n faith_n he_o do_v not_o know_v it_o mr._n ives_n but_o the_o question_n be_v still_o where_o it_o be_v at_o first_o for_o i_o say_v and_o grant_v unto_o you_o that_o whatsoever_o christ_n pray_v for_o absolute_o he_o be_v hear_v in_o and_o whatsoever_o he_o pray_v for_o upon_o condition_n there_o be_v also_o a_o true_a sense_n in_o which_o it_o may_v be_v say_v he_o be_v beard_n in_o all_o such_o prayer_n because_o he_o do_v not_o pray_v for_o the_o pardon_n of_o his_o enemy_n but_o upon_o condition_n of_o their_o repentance_n now_o if_o they_o have_v repent_v and_o have_v not_o be_v pardon_v than_o christ_n be_v not_o hear_v in_o this_o prayer_n but_o if_o they_o remain_v in_o impenitency_n and_o be_v never_o pardon_v he_o be_v nevertheless_o hear_v in_o this_o prayer_n and_o now_o you_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o what_o he_o pray_v for_o in_o this_o prayer_n for_o his_o disciple_n perseverance_n he_o pray_v for_o absolute_o and_o not_o conditional_o or_o else_o you_o do_v not_o argue_v of_o my_o distinction_n mr._n danson_n why_o so_o mr._n ives_n i_o will_v show_v you_o why_o if_o christ_n pray_v for_o some_o thing_n that_o be_v not_o effect_v upon_o the_o person_n non-performance_n on_o their_o part_n and_o yet_o in_o this_o he_o may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v hear_v than_o the_o prayer_n you_o mention_v must_v be_v of_o this_o kind_n or_o absolute_a and_o if_o it_o be_v absolute_a show_v it_o mr._n danson_n if_o christ_n be_v hear_v always_o in_o what_o he_o pray_v for_o than_o this_o be_v a_o absolute_a prayer_n mr._n ives_n and_o must_v he_o not_o when_o he_o pray_v for_o the_o conversion_n of_o other_o and_o the_o forgiveness_n of_o other_o and_o when_o he_o pray_v that_o the_o world_n may_v believe_v be_v he_o not_o hear_v then_o and_o do_v not_o christ_n in_o the_o same_o prayer_n john_n 17_o pray_v that_o all_o that_o believe_v may_v be_v one_o as_o the_o father_n and_o he_o be_v one_o now_o if_o this_o prayer_n be_v absolute_a how_o come_v it_o to_o pass_v that_o there_o be_v so_o many_o sad_a division_n among_o christian_n ●●id_v not_o christ_n pray_v that_o all_o true_a believer_n may_v be_v keep_v from_o the_o evil_n of_o the_o world_n how_o come_v it_o to_o pass_v that_o many_o of_o they_o fall_v into_o many_o worldly_a pollution_n if_o these_o prayer_n be_v absolute_o hear_v and_o the_o thing_n effect_v how_o can_v there_o be_v either_o such_o fowl_n pollution_n or_o such_o great_a division_n among_o true_a believer_n all_o which_o plain_o show_v that_o christ_n pray_v for_o these_o effect_n upon_o their_o use_n of_o such_o mean_n as_o that_o they_o may_v thereby_o obtain_v both_o unity_n and_o purity_n in_o like_a manner_n he_o pray_v for_o their_o perseverance_n in_o grace_n upon_o the_o condition_n of_o their_o use_n of_o mean_n as_o pray_v watch_v etc._n etc._n but_o there_o be_v no_o absolute_a prayer_n for_o such_o perseverance_n as_o you_o fancy_n mr._n danson_n he_o be_v not_o hear_v in_o that_o prayer_n as_o a_o private_a person_n mr._n ives_n show_v that_o distinction_n in_o the_o bible_n where_o do_v the_o scripture_n say_v he_o pray_v for_o some_o thing_n as_o a_o public_a person_n absolute_o and_o every_o thing_n come_v to_o pass_v as_o he_o pray_v for_o in_o that_o capacity_n and_o at_o other_o time_n that_o he_o pray_v as_o a_o private_a person_n and_o he_o be_v then_o hear_v only_o in_o some_o thing_n mr._n danson_n i_o have_v show_v you_o luke_n 23._o father_n forgive_v they_o etc._n etc._n mr._n ives_n suppose_v that_o prayer_n be_v not_o answer_v according_a to_o your_o way_n of_o explication_n as_o to_o their_o be_v actual_o pardon_v yet_o than_o it_o make_v against_o you_o since_o you_o give_v that_o reason_n why_o true_a believer_n can_v not_o fall_v away_o because_o the_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n say_v himself_o father_n i_o thank_v thou_o thou_o have_v hear_v i_o always_o and_o that_o he_o be_v hear_v in_o all_o he_o pray_v for_o and_o thence_o you_o infer_v they_o can_v not_o fall_v away_o that_o be_v true_a believer_n because_o christ_n pray_v for_o their_o perseverance_n and_o be_v hear_v in_o all_o he_o pray_v for_o but_o be_v there_o not_o the_o same_o reason_n to_o conclude_v that_o all_o christ_n crucifter_n shall_v be_v forgive_v and_o that_o the_o world_n shall_v all_o believe_v in_o he_o because_o christ_n pray_v for_o these_o thing_n if_o it_o shall_v be_v say_v christ_n pray_v for_o the_o world_n and_o his_o enemy_n as_o a_o private_a person_n and_o so_o it_o may_v not_o come_v to_o pass_v why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v say_v he_o pray_v for_o the_o perseverance_n of_o all_o believer_n as_o a_o private_a person_n and_o so_o some_o may_v fall_v away_o not_o with_o stand_v but_o if_o it_o be_v say_v he_o pray_v for_o believer_n absolute_o and_o without_o condition_n why_o may_v it_o not_o be_v say_v he_o pray_v so_o for_o the_o world_n and_o his_o enemy_n mr._n danson_n so_o that_o if_o you_o suppose_v in_o the_o one_o place_n he_o be_v not_o hear_v and_o in_o other_o place_n he_o be_v than_o you_o must_v admit_v of_o that_o distinction_n of_o his_o pray_n as_o a_o public_a and_o a_o private_a person_n mr._n ives_n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n for_o when_o christ_n pray_v that_o they_o may_v be_v convert_v he_o pray_v as_o be_v do_v for_o other_o thing_n according_a to_o the_o rule_n he_o have_v prescribe_v now_o you_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v hear_v as_o to_o this_o point_n of_o perseverance_n because_o he_o be_v hear_v in_o all_o he_o pray_v for_o now_o i_o confess_v some_o thing_n he_o be_v not_o hear_v in_o in_o the_o sense_n explain_v as_o to_o the_o come_v to_o pass_v of_o they_o and_o i_o have_v tell_v you_o why_o because_o the_o prayer_n be_v conditional_a when_o christ_n here_o pray_v for_o all_o that_o shall_v believe_v than_o he_o pray_v that_o the_o world_n may_v believe_v that_o the_o father_n have_v send_v he_o be_v that_o prayer_n absolute_a and_o be_v it_o hear_v do_v the_o world_n believe_v pray_v speak_v sir_n mr._n danson_n indefinite_o they_o do_v mr._n ives_n do_v not_o christ_n pray_v that_o more_o may_v believe_v then_o in_o time_n do_v believe_v or_o then_o be_v give_v he_o out_o of_o the_o world_n mr._n danson_n ay_o by_o a_o common_a faith_n such_o as_o they_o may_v fall_v from_o mr._n ives_n be_v this_o common_a faith_n true_a or_o false_a mr._n danson_n it_o be_v true_a in_o its_o kind_n as_o truth_n stand_v in_o opposition_n to_o counterfeit_v mr._n ives_n mr._n danson_n say_v that_o this_o faith_n that_o christ_n pray_v for_o that_o the_o world_n may_v have_v be_v a_o common_a faith_n and_o true_a in_o its_o kind_n in_o opposition_n to_o hypocrisy_n and_o such_o a_o faith_n they_o may_v fall_v from_o i_o say_v no_o more_o that_o it_o be_v true_a faith_n in_o opposition_n to_o feign_a or_o counterfeit_a faith_n now_o this_o be_v all_o that_o i_o have_v to_o do_v to_o prove_v that_o man_n may_v fall_v from_o such_o a_o faith_n as_o be_v opposite_a to_o a_o counterfeit_n or_o feign_a faith_n and_o this_o mr._n danson_n confess_v they_o may_v fall_v from_o though_o he_o have_v all_o this_o while_n dispute_v against_o it_o mr._n danson_n that_o be_v not_o the_o question_n mr._n ives_n it_o be_v for_o by_o a_o true_a faith_n we_o explain_v before_o to_o be_v such_o a_o faith_n as_o be_v true_a in_o opposition_n to_o a_o hypocritical_a or_o seem_a faith_n thus_o end_v the_o last_o dispute_n in_o which_o it_o be_v observable_a that_o mr._n ●ves_v be_v much_o interrupt_v not_o only_o by_o two_o and_o sometime_o three_o at_o once_o of_o the_o minister_n that_o be_v of_o mr._n danson_n perswafion_n but_o the_o multitude_n that_o stand_v that_o way_n affect_v be_v very_o rude_a and_o uncivil_a beyond_o what_o be_v here_o take_v notice_n of_o and_o it_o be_v observable_a that_o mr._n danson_n never_o open_v his_o mouth_n to_o pray_v they_o to_o be_v quiet_a all_o the_o time_n though_o mr._n ives_n take_v much_o pain_n to_o persuade_v they_o once_o and_o again_o yet_o still_o they_o be_v the_o more_o tumultuous_a but_o on_o the_o other_o hand_n the_o people_n that_o be_v

long_o upon_o mr._n danson_n i_o do_v not_o mr._n ives_n sir_n you_o tell_v i_o that_o paul_n may_v labour_v to_o prevent_v his_o be_v a_o reprobate_n or_o castaway_n that_o be_v as_o you_o at_o last_o interpret_v the_o word_n a_o man_n that_o may_v not_o be_v approve_v that_o be_v to_o say_v in_o the_o judgement_n of_o christian_a charity_n than_o sir_n i_o tell_v you_o he_o labour_v to_o prevent_v nothing_o but_o what_o may_v come_v to_o pass_v and_o then_o i_o ask_v which_o of_o these_o sense_n be_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o the_o text_n and_o you_o answer_v the_o latter_a and_o then_o i_o tell_v you_o you_o have_v spend_v half_o a_o hour_n and_o more_o to_o no_o purpose_n about_o the_o former_a sense_n if_o the_o latter_a which_o be_v contrary_a to_o it_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n mr._n danson_n you_o tell_v part_n of_o the_o truth_n but_o not_o the_o whole_a truth_n i_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o take_v the_o word_n as_o our_o translation_n render_v they_o and_o according_a to_o the_o vulgar_a account_n of_o the_o exposition_n we_o affirm_v the_o thing_n but_o then_o we_o also_o affirm_v that_o there_o be_v no_o absurdity_n in_o it_o that_o paul_n shall_v use_v caution_n to_o prevent_v that_o which_o he_o know_v be_v impossible_a to_o come_v to_o pass_v and_o i_o also_o tell_v you_o that_o the_o word_n be_v capable_a of_o another_o sense_n i_o choose_v rather_o to_o stick_v to_o the_o last_o mr._n ives_n you_o tell_v i_o that_o the_o last_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n but_o come_v sir_n do_v any_o thing_n that_o will_v conclude_v the_o question_n if_o you_o will_v not_o i_o shall_v not_o answer_v you_o mr._n danson_n i_o will_v prove_v that_o it_o be_v not_o needless_a to_o give_v caution_n nor_o to_o make_v use_n of_o caution_n to_o prevent_v that_o which_o yet_o notwithstanding_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v or_o to_o come_v to_o pass_v mr._n ives_n that_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o question_n you_o be_v to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o if_o you_o will_v not_o conclude_v that_o in_o your_o syllogism_n i_o will_v not_o dispute_v for_o i_o be_o now_o to_o dispute_v this_o question_n with_o you_o whether_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o i_o say_v some_o may_v you_o say_v none_o can_v do_v you_o not_o mr._n danson_n yes_o mr._n ives_n prove_v it_o then_o mr._n danson_n if_o some_o true_a believer_n may_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n then_o we_o may_v suppose_v that_o some_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o but_o no_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n ergo_fw-la no_o true_a believer_n can_v mr._n ives_n this_o be_v a_o false_a syllogism_n for_o mr._n danson_n say_v if_o some_o may_v fall_v than_o some_o have_v but_o none_o have_v ergo_fw-la none_n can_v and_o though_o the_o minor_a proposition_n may_v be_v detect_v if_o the_o conclusion_n bid_v be_v right_o infer_v from_o the_o premise_n yet_o however_o the_o consequence_n of_o the_o major_n be_v false_a therefore_o i_o deny_v your_o major_n mr._n danson_n i_o argue_v upon_o your_o own_o ground_n mr._n ives_n i_o deny_v the_o major_a do_v you_o prove_v it_o if_o you_o can_v upon_o what_o ground_n you_o will_v so_o it_o be_v prove_v upon_o a_o good_a ground_n i_o pass_v not_o mr._n danson_n whatever_o be_v potential_a have_v be_v do_v mr._n ives_n that_o be_v false_a but_o prove_v your_o major_a proposition_n for_o that_o be_v the_o thing_n deny_v and_o you_o beg_v when_o you_o shall_v dig_v a_o thing_n may_v be_v possible_a to_o be_v do_v though_o no_o body_n have_v do_v it_o therefore_o throw_v up_o your_o argument_n and_o say_v you_o can_v prove_v it_o or_o else_o prove_v that_o whatever_o have_v not_o be_v do_v be_v impossible_a to_o be_v do_v mr._n danson_n i_o argue_v upon_o yourself_o mr._n ives_n if_o you_o beg_v of_o i_o i_o will_v give_v you_o nothing_o i_o say_v prove_v your_o major_a proposition_n if_o you_o can_v mr._n danson_n i_o say_v i_o can_v prove_v it_o here_o mr._n danson_n confess_v he_o can_v prove_v his_o argument_n mr._n ives_n he_o that_o will_v use_v a_o medium_n to_o prove_v a_o argument_n must_v prove_v his_o medium_n mr._n danson_n i_o will_v prove_v then_o by_o a_o new_a argument_n mr._n ives_n come_v then_o mr._n danson_n if_o some_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n they_o be_v either_o those_o in_o the_o 2_o pet._n 2.19.20_o or_o heb._n 6.6_o that_o be_v some_o of_o those_o example_n but_o they_o be_v no_o example_n of_o person_n fall_v away_o from_o grace_n ergo_fw-la no_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n mr._n ives_n i_o deny_v the_o whole_a argument_n for_o you_o do_v not_o conclude_v right_o you_o must_v conclude_v ergo._n then_o if_o none_o have_v fall_v none_o can_v fall_v mr._n danson_n they_o be_v your_o concession_n therefore_o that_o be_v a_o proof_n mr._n ives_n i_o desire_v this_o gentleman_n to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n and_o he_o have_v no_o way_n to_o prove_v it_o but_o say_v i_o confess_v it_o when_o all_o this_o while_n i_o have_v be_v dispute_v against_o it_o mr._n danson_n these_o be_v the_o instance_n you_o urge_v of_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o from_o grace_n mr._n ives_n prove_v your_o major_n i_o say_v mr._n danson_n i_o here_o prove_v it_o if_o that_o the_o character_n that_o be_v give_v in_o these_o text_n that_o do_v carry_v the_o great_a likely_a hood_n of_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o do_v not_o prove_v it_o then_o they_o can_v fall_v away_o but_o the_o first_o be_v true_a ergo._n mr._n ives_n sir_n i_o deny_v this_o argument_n for_o it_o do_v not_o conclude_v the_o major_a that_o be_v deny_v in_o the_o former_a argument_n either_o prove_v that_o or_o else_o go_v back_o to_o the_o question_n and_o prove_v by_o some_o other_o text_n of_o scripture_n or_o argument_n and_o so_o conclude_v ergo_fw-la it_o be_v possible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o mr._n danson_n i_o appeal_v to_o all_o person_n if_o a_o retortion_n of_o a_o argument_n be_v not_o according_a to_o all_o the_o law_n of_o disputation_n mr._n ives_n i_o confess_v it_o retortion_n be_v good_a when_o you_o be_v respondent_fw-la that_o be_v your_o business_n last_o time_n but_o now_o you_o be_v to_o give_v i_o a_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v impossible_a for_o any_o true_a believer_n to_o fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o i_o do_v the_o last_o time_n endeavour_v as_o well_o as_o i_o can_v to_o give_v mr._n danson_n the_o best_a reason_n to_o prove_v that_o some_o true_a believer_n may_v fall_v away_o and_z mr._n danson_n be_v now_o to_o give_v i_o some_o scripture_n proof_n or_o argument_n that_o they_o can_v fall_v away_o it_o may_v be_v possible_o i_o do_v not_o urge_v all_o my_o argument_n and_o it_o may_v be_v a_o true_a doctrine_n though_o it_o be_v not_o true_a from_o those_o argument_n i_o do_v urge_v and_o i_o can_v urge_v all_o truth_n at_o once_o it_o may_v be_v true_a from_o other_o reason_n though_o not_o from_o they_o and_o we_o all_o know_v but_o in_o part_n and_o what_o if_o i_o err_v the_o last_o time_n be_v that_o any_o proof_n for_o you_o mr._n danson_n i_o retort_n your_o own_o argument_n mr._n ives_n you_o do_v not_o argue_v at_o all_o i_o deny_v your_o major_a proposition_n of_o the_o former_a syllogism_n and_o it_o be_v not_o prove_v neither_o have_v you_o conclude_v it_o now_o rather_o than_o lose_v time_n i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n of_o the_o major_a of_o your_o last_o argument_n which_o be_v that_o if_o any_o true_a believer_n have_v fall_v away_o total_o and_o final_o that_o it_o be_v true_a from_o those_o two_o text_n heb._n 6.2_o pet._n 2._o or_o else_o that_o it_o be_v impossible_a they_o can_v fall_v away_o mr._n danson_n i_o will_v prove_v your_o argument_n erroneous_a mr._n ives_n prove_v it_o or_o else_o prove_v your_o last_o consequence_n deny_v or_o go_v back_o to_o the_o consequence_n of_o the_o former_a argument_n which_o be_v not_o yet_o conclude_v which_o be_v this_o that_o if_o there_o be_v no_o example_n of_o any_o true_a believer_n fall_v away_o than_o none_o can_v fall_v away_o mr._n danson_n if_o there_o be_v any_o example_n of_o the_o fall_v away_o of_o true_a believer_n they_o be_v some_o of_o they_o that_o you_o allege_v mr._n ives_n that_o do_v not_o follow_v but_o i_o appeal_v to_o

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that_o after_o their_o hardness_n and_o impenitency_n of_o heart_n they_o treasure_v up_o to_o themselves_o wrath_n against_o the_o day_n of_o wrath_n etc._n etc._n in_o this_o sense_n be_v those_o scripture_n to_o be_v understand_v of_o god_n keep_v believer_n from_o fall_v and_o preserve_v they_o to_o the_o end_n and_o of_o his_o promise_n that_o they_o shall_v be_v keep_v from_o evil_a which_o whether_o it_o be_v of_o the_o evil_a of_o punishment_n or_o the_o evil_n of_o sin_n believer_n be_v never_o so_o keep_v but_o that_o they_o may_v and_o sometime_o do_v fall_v into_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o and_o therefore_o those_o text_n must_v be_v understand_v of_o god_n do_v those_o thing_n by_o his_o gracious_a vouchsafement_n of_o mean_n sufficient_a to_o keep_v believer_n from_o evil_a and_o from_o back_o slide_v and_o of_o do_v all_o that_o which_o be_v necessary_a on_o his_o part_n for_o their_o persevere_v and_o keep_v to_o the_o end_n and_o as_o concern_v those_o 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the_o evil_n of_o the_o world_n therefore_o christ_n prayer_n explain_v itself_o when_o he_o pray_v for_o believer_n sanctification_n john_n 17_o sanctify_v they_o through_o thy_o truth_n thy_o word_n be_v truth_n so_o that_o one_o may_v run_v and_o read_v that_o this_o prayer_n of_o christ_n concern_v the_o perseverance_n of_o true_a believer_n be_v upon_o condition_n of_o their_o use_n of_o mean_n which_o be_v no_o more_o absolute_a than_o his_o prayer_n either_o for_o their_o sanctity_n or_o unity_n and_o neither_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o more_o than_o any_o that_o god_n will_v so_o bless_v they_o in_o the_o use_n of_o such_o mean_n that_o thereby_o they_o may_v attain_v those_o bless_a end_n all_o which_o imply_v that_o it_o be_v possible_a for_o many_o thing_n never_o to_o come_v to_o pass_v that_o christ_n thus_o pray_v for_o and_o yet_o he_o be_v notwithstanding_o hear_v always_o in_o all_o thing_n the_o last_o ground_n of_o this_o persuasion_n that_o no_o true_a 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