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truth_n believe_v church_n err_v 1,967 5 9.6697 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18933 The conuerted Iew or Certaine dialogues betweene Micheas a learned Iew and others, touching diuers points of religion, controuerted betweene the Catholicks and Protestants. Written by M. Iohn Clare a Catholicke priest, of the Society of Iesus. Dedicated to the two Vniuersities of Oxford and Cambridge ... Clare, John, 1577-1628.; Anderton, Lawrence, attributed name.; Anderton, Roger, d. 1640?, attributed name. 1630 (1630) STC 5351; ESTC S122560 323,604 470

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ghost_n to_o illuminate_v the_o world_n with_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o gospel_n and_o to_o dissipate_v the_o cloud_n of_o the_o former_a romish_a error_n and_o i_o be_o assure_v michaeas_n you_o will_v acknowledge_v luther_n for_o a_o perfect_a protestant_n in_o all_o point_n and_o consequent_o that_o the_o protestant_a church_n be_v in_o luther_n &_o his_o follower_n most_o conspicuous_a and_o visible_a michaeas_n i_o know_v most_o of_o our_o new_a ghospeller_n travail_v with_o you_o m._n d._n on_o this_o child_n to_o wit_n that_o luther_n do_v erect_v a_o perfect_a form_n of_o protestancy_n by_o the_o which_o we_o may_v learn_v that_o affection_n be_v not_o only_o blind_v but_o also_o deaf_a so_o loathe_v you_o protestant_n be_v either_o to_o see_v or_o hear_v any_o thing_n against_o luther_n herein_o nevertheless_o i_o here_o aver_v it_o be_v impossible_a to_o justify_v luther_n for_o a_o true_a protestant_n i_o know_v also_o that_o himself_o thus_o vaunt_v argentinenses_n christum_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la primò_fw-la vulgatum_fw-la audemus_fw-la gloriari_fw-la where_o we_o may_v see_v it_o be_v a_o accustom_a blemish_n of_o most_o innovatour_n to_o become_v their_o own_o parasite_n neuseru_n strange_a luther_n not_o a_o protestant_n do_v the_o sun_n shine_v be_v the_o fire_n hot_a do_v the_o sea_n ebb_n and_o flow_v as_o certain_a as_o any_o of_o these_o so_o certain_a luther_n be_v a_o perfect_a and_o true_a protestant_n he_o be_v the_o sun_n that_o do_v dispel_v in_o those_o day_n the_o mist_n of_o antichristian_a darkness_n from_o his_o preach_n and_o write_n a_o ●ier_n of_o christian_a zeal_n be_v enkindle_v in_o thousand_o of_o man_n soul_n for_o the_o embrace_v of_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n and_o never_o do_v the_o torrent_n and_o inundation_n of_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n suffer_v a_o great_a reflux_n a_o great_a reflux_n and_o ebb_n then_o in_o his_o life_n time_n michaeas_n rhetorical_o amplify_v neuserus_fw-la but_o it_o be_v the_o 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then_o and_o still_o now_o teach_v by_o the_o say_a church_n second_o in_o that_o luther_n after_o his_o departure_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v maintain_v diverse_a gross_a error_n or_o rather_o heresy_n or_o rather_o blasphemy_n and_o for_o such_o at_o this_o day_n condemn_v both_o by_o catholic_n and_o protestant_n so_o evident_a it_o will_v appear_v that_o luther_n be_v too_o weak_a a_o bulk_n to_o give_v nurrishment_n to_o all_o those_o different_a plant_n which_o now_o do_v stile_n themselves_o protestant_n and_o first_o touch_v several_a catholic_a point_n ever_o believe_v &_o defend_v by_o luther_n even_o to_o his_o last_o day_n these_o follow_v may_v serve_v as_o instance_n 1._o first_o he_o ever_o maintain_v the_o real_a presence_n in_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n of_o the_o eucharist_n as_o the_o world_n know_v and_o his_o follower_n for_o their_o peculiar_a defence_n of_o this_o doctrine_n be_v style_v lutheran_n by_o swinglin_n calvin_n &_o their_o party_n impugn_v the_o foresay_a doctrine_n 2._o luther_n also_o defend_v prayer_n to_o saint_n of_o which_o point_n he_o thus_o write_v spalatinun_v de_fw-fr intercessione_n divorum_fw-la cum_fw-la tota_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la christiana_n sentio_fw-la &_o iudico_fw-la sanctos_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la honorandos_fw-la esse_fw-la atque_fw-la invocandos_fw-la 3._o he_o also_o teach_v the_o doctrine_n of_o evangelicall_a counsel_n to_o wit_n that_o a_o man_n may_v do_v more_o than_o he_o be_v command_v as_o appear_v out_o of_o his_o book_n de_fw-la 30._o assertionibus_fw-la 4._o the_o doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n he_o teach_v of_o which_o see_v tom_n 〈◊〉_d echio_n wittenberg_n in_o resolut_a de_fw-fr indulgentijs_fw-la and_o answerable_o to_o this_o ground_n he_o be_v confess_v by_o vrbanus_n regius_n cultu●_fw-la a_o protestant_a to_o defend_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a 5._o luther_n further_o teach_v and_o approve_v the_o use_n of_o image_n as_o beza_n prefat_n witness_v 6._o the_o indifferency_n of_o communion_n under_o one_o or_o both_o kind_n contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o protestant_n who_o place_n a_o necessity_n in_o both_o be_v allow_v by_o luther_n in_o these_o word_n quamuis_fw-la bohemos_n pulcrum_fw-la sit_fw-la etc._n etc._n although_o it_o be_v very_o seemly_a to_o use_v both_o the_o species_n or_o form_n in_o the_o bless_a eucharist_n &_o though_o christ_n command_v nothing_o herein_o as_o necessary_a yet_o it_o be_v better_a to_o follow_v peace_n etc._n etc._n then_o to_o contend_v about_o the_o form_n 7._o touch_v the_o make_n of_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n upon_o our_o forehead_n johannes_n crevelius_n a_o lutheran_n thus_o witness_v cum_fw-la imus_fw-la cubitum_fw-la ●ive_a surgimus_fw-la electo_fw-la cruse_n nos_fw-la iuxta_fw-la lutheri_fw-la 118._o &_o aliorum_fw-la piorum●●_n institutionem_fw-la signamus_fw-la when_o we_o go_v to_o bed_n or_o rise_v from_o thence_o we_o do_v sign_n ourselves_o with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n 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choosen_n ad_fw-la quem_fw-la &_o suos_fw-la posteros_fw-la spectant_fw-la totus_fw-la orbis_fw-la to_o who_o care_n and_o his_o successor_n the_o whole_a world_n shall_v belong_v and_o thus_o far_o gentlemen_n touch_v some_o taste_n to_o show_v that_o luther_n even_o after_o his_o forsake_v of_o the_o catholic_a and_o roman_a church_n do_v nevertheless_o still_o retain_v and_o believe_v diverse_a catholic_a doctrine_n and_o consequent_o be_v no_o no_o entire_a and_o perfect_a protestant_n d._n reynolds_n i_o confess_v indeed_o that_o luther_n as_o appear_v by_o his_o own_o write_n do_v not_o reveal_v to_o the_o new_a world_n as_o i_o may_v term_v it_o all_o the_o euangelical_n truth_n the_o full_a discovery_n of_o some_o part_n thereof_o be_v reserve_v for_o our_o late_a day_n and_o though_o his_o own_o religion_n be_v not_o through_o want_n of_o belief_n of_o some_o truth_n perfect_o good_a yet_o i_o be_o assure_v it_o be_v not_o by_o his_o pesitive_o mantayn_v of_o any_o one_o 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serve_v only_o to_o blear_v for_o the_o time_n the_o impenetrate_a and_o weak_a eye_n of_o the_o ignorant_a do_v in_o the_o closure_n of_o all_o both_o by_o certain_a necessary_a inference_n as_o also_o in_o plain_n and_o express_v term_n grant_v the_o point_n here_o controvert_v to_o wit_n that_o the_o protestant_a church_n have_v for_o many_o age_n together_o be_v whole_o invisible_a and_o not_o know_v to_o any_o one_o man_n live_v or_o rather_o that_o during_o such_o say_a age_n it_o have_v be_v utter_o overthrow_v destroy_v and_o as_o it_o be_v annihilate_v and_o no_o such_o church_n in_o be_v the_o proof_n of_o which_o point_n shall_v be_v the_o subject_n of_o this_o passage_n this_o point_n than_o be_v prove_v two_o way_n and_o both_o from_o the_o penn_n of_o the_o protestant_n first_o from_o their_o acknowledge_a want_n of_o succession_n of_o pastor_n and_o of_o their_o like_a defect_n of_o send_v by_o ordinary_a call_v second_o from_o their_o manifest_a &_o open_a complaint_n 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it_o since_o even_o logic_n instruct_v we_o that_o non_fw-la eutis_fw-la ●●n_fw-la est_fw-la accidens_fw-la that_o the_o protestant_a church_n for_o many_o age_n have_v want_v all_o personal_a succession_n and_o ordinary_a call_v be_v overevident_a see_v beside_o that_o which_o have_v be_v say_v of_o this_o point_n already_o we_o find_v diverse_a learned_a protestant_n to_o confess_v no_o less_o for_o thus_o do_v sadellius_fw-la write_n diverse_a 319._o protestant_n affirm_v that_o the_o minister_n with_o they_o be_v destitute_a of_o lawful_a call_v as_o not_o have_v a_o continual_a visible_a succession_n from_o the_o apostle_n time_n which_o they_o do_v attribute_v only_o to_o the_o papist_n and_o hence_o it_o be_v that_o many_o protestant_n confess_v that_o they_o be_v force_v to_o fly_v 23._o to_o extraordinary_n call_v which_o be_v immediate_o from_o god_n without_o any_o help_n of_o man_n thus_o for_o example_n calvin_n say_v quia_fw-la papae_fw-la tyrannide_fw-la etc._n etc._n because_o through_o the_o tyranny_n of_o the_o pope_n true_a succession_n of_o ordination_n be_v break_v off_o therefore_o we_o stand_v need_n of_o a_o new_a course_n herein_o and_o this_o function_n or_o call_v be_v altogether_o extraorinary_a thus_o calvin_n and_o d._n fulke_n 2._o in_o like_a manner_n say_v the_o protestant_n that_o first_o preach_v in_o these_o day_n have_v extraordinary_a call_v with_o who_o agree_v d._n parkins_n say_v the_o call_n of_o w●cklefe_v hus_n luther_n oecolampadius_n peter_n martyr_n etc._n etc._n be_v extraordinary_a thus_o we_o see_v that_o the_o protestant_n confess_v the_o want_n of_o 916._o personal_a succession_n in_o their_o church_n as_o also_o the_o want_n of_o ordinary_a vocation_n and_o fly_v therefore_o to_o extraordinory_n vocation_n do_v even_o by_o such_o their_o confession_n acknowledge_v withal_o the_o inuisibility_n of_o their_o church_n in_o those_o time_n and_o a_o interruption_n next_o before_o of_o all_o personal_a succession_n 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his_o visible_a church_n from_o open_a assembly_n to_o the_o heart_n of_o particular_a godly_a man_n etc._n etc._n during_o the_o space_n of_o twelve_o hundred_o and_o sixty_o year_n the_o true_a church_n abide_v latent_fw-la and_o invisible_a with_o who_o touch_v the_o continuance_n of_o this_o inuisibility_n agree_v m._n 〈◊〉_d brocard_n a_o english_a protestant_n but_o m._n napper_n be_v not_o content_a with_o the_o latency_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n for_o the_o former_a time_n only_o but_o involu_v more_o age_n therein_o thus_o aver●ing_v during_o 12._o even_o the_o second_o and_o three_o age_n mean_v after_o christ_n the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n and_o light_n of_o the_o gospel_n be_v obscure_v by_o the_o roman_a antichrist_n himself_o but_o sebastianus_n francus_n a_o most_o remarkable_a protestant_n overstripe_v hearein_o all_o his_o former_a brethren_n not_o doubt_v to_o comprehend_v within_o the_o say_a inuisibility_n all_o the_o age_n since_o the_o apostle_n thus_o 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yet_o extant_a that_o such_o eminent_a protestant_n shall_v confess_v
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objection_n
they_o may_v safe_o adjoine_v themselves_o d._n field_n conspire_v with_o all_o the_o former_a protestant_n thus_o say_v 19_o the_o person_n of_o they_o of_o who_o the_o church_n consist_v be_v visible_a their_o profession_n know_v even_o to_o the_o profane_a and_o wich_v of_o the_o world_n and_o in_o this_o sort_n the_o church_n can_v be_v invisible_a thus_o this_o doctor_n prevent_v the_o answer_n of_o those_o who_o say_v the_o church_n be_v visible_a but_o to_o the_o elect_a only_o the_o say_v d._n field_n thus_o reprehend_v cardinal_n bellarmine_n touch_v this_o point_n say_v 21._o it_o be_v true_a that_o bellarmine_n labour_v in_o vain_a in_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v and_o always_o have_v be_v a_o visible_a church_n and_o that_o not_o consist_v of_o some_o few_o scatter_a christian_n without_o order_n of_o ministry_n or_o use_n of_o sacrament_n for_o all_o this_o we_o do_v most_o willing_o yield_v unto_o how_o soever_o perhaps_o some_o few_o have_v be_v otherwise_o of_o 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to_o the_o formery_n mention_v prophece_n of_o god_n sacred_a word_n and_o other_o passage_n thereof_o to_o the_o grave_a authority_n of_o the_o primative_a father_n and_o final_o to_o all_o force_n of_o reason_n itself_o d._n reynolds_n we_o see_v michaeas_n you_o be_v very_o conversant_a in_o our_o own_o writer_n and_o now_o i_o hope_v this_o first_o point_n be_v perfect_v whereupon_o the_o force_n of_o the_o future_a discourse_n be_v to_o rely_v and_o though_o they_o be_v some_o difficulty_n to_o cry_v down_o a_o error_n or_o false_a opinion_n in_o doctrine_n once_o advance_v nevertheless_o i_o trust_v no_o learned_a judicious_a man_n peruse_v the_o former_a authority_n at_o large_a will_v ever_o dream_v of_o a_o invisible_a church_n be_v in_o itself_o a_o mere_a intentional_a notion_n and_o have_v no_o subsistence_n or_o be_v michaeas_n m._n doctor_n you_o say_v true_o but_o now_o see_v it_o be_v in_o this_o next_o place_n proper_o incumbent_a upon_o you_o and_o these_o two_o 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not_o hold_v pertinacious_o any_o
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like_o rose_n after_o a_o long_a cold_a or_o tempest_n bloom_a forth_o through_o the_o heat_n of_o the_o sun_n with_o refe●erence_n of_o which_o professor_n ochinus_n may_v just_o apply_v to_o himself_o the_o word_n of_o aenias_n 〈…〉_z quorum_fw-la pars_fw-la magna_fw-la fui_fw-la michaeas_n concern_v the_o professor_n of_o protestancy_n here_o in_o england_n since_o queen_n elizabeth_n come_v to_o the_o crown_n i_o easy_o grant_v they_o have_v be_v most_o visible_a as_o i_o gather_v out_o of_o your_o english_a chronicle_n and_o thus_o i_o free_o confess_v that_o protestancy_n have_v continue_v in_o england_n some_o threescore_o and_o seven_o year_n but_o where_o you_o say_v that_o protestancy_n i_o mean_v as_o it_o comprehend_v all_o the_o article_n teach_v at_o this_o day_n for_o protestancy_n and_o which_o necessary_o concur_v to_o the_o make_n of_o a_o perfect_a &_o complete_a protestant_n be_v full_o teach_v and_o believe_v in_o k._n edward_n his_o day_n i_o absolute_o deny_v ochinus_n will_v you_o deny_v michaeas_n so_o manifest_a a_o verity_n whereas_o myself_o be_v not_o only_o a_o eyewitnesse_n in_o those_o time_n but_o if_o i_o may_v speak_v in_o modesty_n a_o great_a cause_n thereof_o what_o will_v you_o not_o deny_v if_o you_o deny_v such_o illustrious_a truth_n and_o what_o hope_n can_v we_o have_v of_o your_o better_n by_o this_o our_o disputation_n michaeas_n good_a ochinus_n bear_v i_o not_o down_o with_o astreame_a of_o vaunt_a word_n the_o refuse_n of_o speech_n but_o if_o you_o can_v with_o force_n of_o argument_n i_o peremptory_o deny_v the_o former_a point_n and_o for_o justify_v this_o my_o denial_n i_o will_v recurre_v to_o the_o communion_n book_n set_v out_o in_o k._n edward_n time_n with_o the_o approbation_n and_o allowance_n as_o d._n dove_n a_o protestant_n affirm_v of_o peter_n martyr_n your_o cooperatour_n which_o book_n we_o must_v presume_v in_o all_o reason_n be_v make_v according_a to_o the_o public_a faith_n of_o the_o king_n and_o the_o realm_n establish_v in_o those_o time_n and_o the_o rather_o consider_v that_o the_o say_a communion_n book_n for_o it_o great_a authority_n be_v warrant_v in_o the_o king_n time_n by_o act_n of_o parliament_n now_o this_o communion_n book_n or_o public_a lyturgy_n of_o the_o faith_n of_o england_n in_o those_o day_n be_v print_v in_o folio_n by_o edward_n whit-church_n anno_fw-la 1549._o pertake_v in_o many_o point_n with_o our_o roman_a religion_n for_o it_o make_v special_a defence_n for_o ceremony_n 156._o and_o prescribe_v that_o the_o eucharist_n shall_v be_v consecrate_v with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n it_o command_v 132._o consecration_n of_o the_o water_n of_o baptism_n with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n it_o allow_v of_o chrism_n 132._o as_o also_o of_o the_o child_n anoint_v 128._o and_o exorcism_n in_o that_o book_n mention_n be_v make_v of_o prayer_n 116._o for_o the_o dead_a and_o intercession_n and_o 117._o offer_v up_o of_o our_o prayer_n by_o angel_n it_o deffend_v baptism_n give_v by_o layperson_n 1●9_n in_o time_n of_o necessity_n and_o the_o grace_n ibidem_fw-la of_o that_o sacrament_n as_o also_o confirmation_n 132._o of_o child_n and_o strength_n give_v they_o thereby_o it_o mention_v according_a to_o the_o custom_n use_v in_o time_n at_o mass_n at_o this_o very_a day_n the_o priest_n turn_v sometime_o to_o the_o altar_n 115._o and_o sometime_o to_o the_o people_n 117._o it_o ordain_v that_o answerable_o yet_o to_o our_o catholic_a custom_n 4._o alleluya_n shall_v be_v say_v from_o easter_n to_o trinity_n sunday_n it_o prescribe_v the_o priest_n blessing_n of_o the_o 139._o bride_n &_o brydegroome_n with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n it_o allow_v the_o priest_n absolution_n of_o the_o sick_a penitent_a with_o these_o particular_a word_n by_o 14●_n the_o authority_n commit_v unto_o i_o i_o absolute_a thou_o of_o all_o thy_o sin_n it_o mention_v a_o special_a confession_n 142._o of_o the_o sick_a penitent_n and_o last_o it_o command_v the_o 14●_n anoint_v of_o the_o sick_a person_n which_o we_o catholic_n call_v the_o sacrament_n of_o extreme_a unction_n so_o little_a reason_n ocbinus_n you_o see_v you_o have_v to_o affirm_v that_o the_o protestancy_n of_o the_o present_a church_n of_o england_n be_v the_o same_o which_o be_v mantain_v and_o public_o establish_v by_o king_n edward_n ochinus_n indeed_o i_o grant_v the_o communion_n book_n be_v then_o make_v by_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o parliament_n but_o i_o instruct_v those_o with_o who_o i_o converse_v to_o reject_v those_o superstition_n their_o confirm_a d._n reynolds_n well_o let_v that_o pass_v it_o avail_v not_o much_o whether_o protestancy_n be_v here_o in_o england_n at_o those_o day_n or_o no_o since_o it_o be_v certain_a it_o be_v then_o most_o full_o dilate_v in_o many_o other_o country_n by_o the_o late_a afore_o raise_v up_o of_o luther_n who_o be_v miraculous_o send_v by_o the_o holy_a
after_o i_o have_v finish_v my_o discourse_n your_o morning_n and_o more_o retire_v thought_n will_v at_o lest_o in_o the_o secret_n of_o your_o own_o judgement_n geve_v a_o other_o censure_n hereof_o and_o i_o will_v begin_v in_o deliver_v the_o position_n &_o doctrine_n which_o the_o most_o accomplish_a protestant_n for_o literature_n have_v leave_v of_o this_o argument_n in_o their_o book_n and_o write_n and_o first_o do_v we_o not_o find_v luther_n even_o to_o deny_v all_o secular_a principality_n as_o most_o unlawful_a now_o in_o these_o christian_a day_n for_o thus_o he_o write_v among_o german_n christian_a man_n none_o be_v superior_a save_o one_o and_o only_a christ_n as_o also_o more_o full_o among_o supra_fw-la christian_n no_o man_n can_v or_o aught_o to_o be_v a_o magistrate_n but_o eich_n one_o be_v to_o other_o equal_o subject_a and_o further_o in_o contempt_n of_o all_o magistrate_n touch_v matter_n of_o religion_n he_o thus_o discourse_v as_o christ_n 327._o can_v suffer_v himself_o to_o be_v tie_v and_o bind_v by_o law_n etc._n etc._n so_o ought_v not_o the_o conscience_n of_o a_o christian_n to_o suffer_v they_o and_o more_o if_o the_o 261._o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v contend_v that_o his_o commandment_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n then_o as_o it_o be_v say_v of_o the_o tradition_n of_o the_o papist_n the_o contrary_a be_v to_o be_v do_v thus_o we_o find_v that_o luther_n be_v not_o afraid_a not_o only_o to_o impugn_v all_o magistracy_n and_o domination_n in_o certain_a case_n but_o he_o be_v also_o not_o ashamed_a to_o dogmatise_v and_o teach_v in_o his_o write_n that_o there_o neither_o be_v nor_o aught_o to_o be_v any_o true_a sovereignty_n or_o prince_n at_o all_o now_o in_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n to_o which_o prince_n partly_o their_o eminency_n grace_v with_o pomp_n and_o state_n but_o chief_o a_o innate_a &_o imbred_a obedience_n to_o power_n and_o majesty_n god_n and_o nature_n make_v that_o now_o good_a which_o law_n of_o man_n do_v first_o ordain_v induce_v man_n to_o exhibit_v all_o due_a reverence_n and_o veneration_n in_o compare_n of_o who_o even_o the_o great_a subject_n be_v to_o seem_v but_o private_a &_o obscure_a like_o the_o bright_a star_n which_o be_v darken_v in_o the_o presence_n of_o a_o fair_a light_n vice_n chancellor_n touch_v luther_n michaeas_n you_o must_v know_v that_o although_o we_o acknowledge_v he_o to_o have_v be_v a_o great_a instrument_n of_o god_n for_o the_o reveal_n in_o these_o late_a time_n the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n yet_o we_o grant_v that_o in_o some_o point_n he_o vary_a from_o the_o truth_n and_o particular_o in_o deny_v all_o magistracy_n and_o principality_n but_o all_o other_o chief_a professor_n of_o our_o religion_n concurrent_o teach_v with_o we_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o prince_n and_o all_o due_a obedience_n unto_o they_o michaeas_n m._n vicechancelour_n if_o luther_n by_o your_o own_o acknowledgement_n do_v err_v in_o this_o point_n how_o then_o can_v you_o rest_v assure_v that_o he_o do_v not_o err_v in_o other_o point_n of_o faith_n first_o by_o he_o broach_v and_o after_o entertain_v by_o you_o since_o he_o have_v no_o better_a warrant_n for_o teach_v the_o truth_n in_o the_o one_o then_o in_o the_o other_o and_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o a_o manifest_a error_n but_o in_o one_o point_n carry_v with_o it_o a_o possibility_n of_o err_v in_o any_o other_o point_n but_o to_o come_v to_o your_o answer_n i_o say_v the_o contrary_a thereto_o will_v present_o appear_v for_o be_v it_o not_o evident_a that_o swinglius_n a_o man_n of_o extraordinary_a note_n among_o you_o thus_o teach_v quando_fw-la 42._o perfide_fw-la &_o extra_fw-la regulam_fw-la christi_fw-la egerint_fw-la principes_fw-la possunt_fw-la depon●_n when_o prince_n do_v evil_a and_o contrary_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o christ_n they_o may_v be_v depose_v thus_o swinglius_n who_o there_o warrant_v this_o his_o doctrine_n from_o the_o example_n of_o saul_n who_o god_n depose_v although_o afore_o he_o design_v he_o king_n yea_o swinglius_n thus_o further_o proceed_v due_a illibatam_fw-la reverence_n it_o to_o be_v promise_v to_o caesar_n if_o so_o be_v permit_v to_o we_o our_o religion_n inviolable_a thus_o intimate_v that_o if_o the_o prince_n do_v not_o permit_v religion_n than_o no_o honour_n be_v to_o be_v give_v but_o resistance_n be_v to_o be_v make_v swinglius_n furthermore_o continue_v his_o former_a discourse_n in_o these_o very_a word_n romanum_fw-la ●b●●upra_fw-la imperium_fw-la ●m●_n qu●du●s_fw-la aliud_fw-la imperium_fw-la ubi_fw-la religionem_fw-la sinceram_fw-la opprimere_fw-la caperit_n etc._n etc._n if_o the_o roman_a emperor_n or_o any_o other_o prince_n or_o sovereign_n shall_v begin_v to_o oppress_v the_o sincere_a religion_n &_o nos_fw-la illud_fw-la negligentes_fw-la patim●_n etc._n etc._n and_o we_o negligent_o suffer_v the_o same_o we_o shall_v stand_v charge_v with_o contempt_n thereof_o as_o much_o as_o even_o the_o oppressor_n themselves_o a_o assertion_n so_o much_o displease_v to_o other_o more_o sober_a and_o quiet_a protestant_n that_o d._n bilson_n do_v rest_n much_o dista_v with_o those_o word_n of_o swinglius_n say_v in_o lieu_n of_o further_a answer_n to_o they_o as_o i_o muse_v 273._o at_o swi●glius_n his_o word_n so_o i_o like_v not_o his_o judgement_n vicechancelour_a mich_n 〈…〉_z you_o know_v well_o that_o swinglius_n and_o luther_n live_v both_o in_o one_o time_n together_o i_o mean_v then_o when_o though_o many_o article_n of_o the_o 〈◊〉_d be_v by_o they_o discover_v yet_o all_o be_v not_o discover_v but_o happy_o they_o may_v maintain_v some_o error_n the_o sun_n of_o christ_n gospel_n not_o as_o then_o arrive_v to_o it_o meridian_n and_o full_a ascent_n and_o indeed_o it_o be_v a_o kind_n of_o imperfection_n and_o as_o i_o may_v term_v it_o a_o sign_n of_o a_o over_o rigid_a nature_n to_o expect_v in_o the_o w●yters_n of_o those_o firster_n time_n no_o imperfection_n at_o all_o but_o now_o in_o these_o more_o late_a and_o refined_a day_n the_o professor_n of_o the_o gospel_n have_v whole_o explode_v the_o former_a doctrine_n of_o luther_n and_o swinglius_n herein_o for_o what_o man_n do_v more_o advance_v &_o defend_v the_o dignity_n and_o sovereignty_n of_o prince_n than_o we_o do_v in_o our_o sermon_n and_o other_o our_o private_a conference_n michaeas_n if_o you_o do_v so_o much_o magnify_v in_o your_o pulpit_n as_o you_o say_v you_o do_v the_o regallity_n of_o prince_n it_o be_v to_o the_o end_n that_o in_o the_o close_a i_o speak_v only_o but_o of_o some_o of_o you_o you_o may_v the_o better_a undermyne_n they_o all_o like_o the_o earth_n which_o for_o the_o time_n nurrish_v all_o creature_n yet_o final_o devour_v all_o creature_n but_o because_o you_o reply_v that_o the_o professor_n come_v after_o luther_n and_o swinglius_n can_v be_v blemish_v in_o their_o write_n with_o any_o spot_n of_o disloyalty_n therefore_o to_o follow_v you_o in_o your_o own_o method_n therein_o i_o will_v come_v by_o degree_n from_o luther_n and_o swinglius_n even_o to_o these_o our_o day_n and_o so_o descend_v in_o time_n i_o will_v ascend_v in_o weight_n and_o force_n of_o argument_n and_o now_o to_o come_v to_o calvin_n who_o next_o in_o time_n succeed_v swiglius_n and_o towards_o who_o most_o of_o you_o protestant_n do_v commit_v a_o kind_a of_o idolatry_n it_o be_v over_o evident_a that_o calvin_n thus_o write_v of_o prince_n and_o their_o authority_n earthly_a parere_fw-la prince_n do_v depr_fw-la 〈…〉_z themselves_o of_o authority_n when_o they_o erect_v themselves_o against_o god_n yea_o they_o be_v unworthy_a to_o be_v account_v in_o the_o number_n of_o man_n and_o we_o be_v rather_o to_o spit_v upon_o their_o f●ces_n then_o to_o obey_v they_o thus_o we_o see_v that_o calvin_n teach_v that_o prince_n command_v thing_n unlawful_a do_v utter_o depryve_v themselves_o of_o all_o authority_n and_o regality_n where_o with_o a_o fore_n they_o be_v inve_v with_o which_o former_a word_n of_o calvin_n d._n wilks_n no_o vulgar_a protestant_n do_v uppray_v the_o puritan_n in_o this_o sort_n they_o 60._o be_v your_o teacher_n who_o account_v those_o prince_n who_o be_v not_o resin_a by_o their_o spirit_n unworthy_a to_o be_v account_v among_o the_o number_n of_o man_n and_o therefore_o rather_o to_o be_v spit_v upon_o then_o obey_v they_o be_v your_o teacher_n who_o defend_v rebellion_n against_o prince_n of_o a_o different_a religion_n thus_o d._n wilk●_n to_o come_v next_o to_o beza_n he_o be_v so_o full_a and_o intemperate_a in_o overthrow_v the_o authority_n of_o prince_n as_o that_o he_o do_v purposely_o write_v a_o book_n of_o this_o very_a subject_n style_v it_o de_fw-fr 〈◊〉_d magistratuum_fw-la in_o sub●●tos_fw-la a_o book_n much_o dislyke_v by_o d._n bancroft_n the_o late_a arch_a bishop_n position_n of_o canterbury_n and_o d._n succl●ffe_n which_o doctor_n t●us_o censure_v thereof_o beza_n 75._o in_o his_o book_n of_o the_o