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truth_n age_n church_n time_n 2,142 5 3.6322 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A33979 A supplement to a little book entituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconforming ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their ministerial acts in publick solemn prayer, ordinarily, by the prescribed forms of others : wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his book called, Libertas ecclesiastica, and Mr. Pelling in a book called, The good old way, have said to prove the ancient use of forms of prayers by ministers : and it is proved, that neither of the two aforementioned authors have said anything that proveth the general use, or imposition of such forms of prayer in any considerable part of the church, till Pope Gregories time, which was six hundred years after Christ, nor in any church since the reformation, except that of England, and (which is uncertain) some in Saxony. Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.; Pelling, Edward, d. 1718. Good old way. 1680 (1680) Wing C5343; ESTC R18940 53,644 120

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the_o most_o orthodox_n people_n and_o it_o will_v be_v inquire_v in_o england_n at_o this_o day_n whether_o there_o be_v more_o socinian_o pelagian_n and_o papist_n among_o those_o that_o adore_v the_o liturgy_n or_o among_o those_o who_o have_v no_o kindness_n for_o that_o or_o any_o other_o let_v but_o the_o understand_a reader_n judge_v of_o all_o the_o rest_n he_o say_v by_o the_o truth_n of_o this_o in_o the_o next_o place_n he_o say_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o liturgy_n be_v in_o use_n in_o st._n basils_n and_o st._n chrysostom_n time_n general_o who_o be_v about_o 380_o year_n after_o christ_n and_o why_o can_v this_o be_v deny_v because_o he_o say_v liturgy_n be_v extant_a under_o their_o name_n this_o learned_a argument_n will_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v also_o liturgy_n in_o st._n mark_n st._n peter_n st._n james_n and_o st._n andrews_n time_n for_o there_o be_v liturgy_n out_o also_o under_o their_o name_n yet_o this_o be_v all_o this_o author_n have_v to_o say_v why_o no_o body_n shall_v deny_v what_o he_o say_v as_o if_o there_o be_v not_o 100_o book_n extant_a under_o the_o name_n of_o the_o ancient_n which_o not_o only_o rivet_v and_o cocus_n among_o the_o protestant_n but_o possevine_v sixtus_n senensis_n erasmus_n and_o bellarmine_n among_o the_o papist_n have_v deny_v to_o be_v they_o man_n all_o as_o learned_a as_o our_o author_n i_o have_v before_o show_v that_o the_o liturgy_n go_v under_o their_o name_n can_v not_o be_v they_o the_o noble_a and_o learned_a lord_n of_o mornay_n who_o our_o author_n sometime_o speak_v high_o of_o l._n 1._o de_fw-la missa_fw-la cap._n 6._o say_v liturgy_n be_v omnes_fw-la falsi_fw-la postulo_fw-la i_o charge_v all_o these_o liturgy_n as_o false_a in_o both_o of_o they_o as_o be_v say_v before_o be_v the_o hymn_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d which_o come_v 200_o year_n after_o into_o the_o church_n in_o both_z confessor_n be_v mention_v who_o name_n be_v not_o know_v of_o many_o year_n after_o in_o both_z the_o virgin_n mary_n be_v call_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d a_o term_n not_o admit_v in_o common_a use_n till_o after_o the_o council_n at_o ephesus_n 436._o in_o both_o of_o they_o there_o be_v incense_v many_o other_o reason_n the_o reader_n may_v find_v in_o morney_n in_o the_o chapter_n before_o quote_v etc._n etc._n but_o faith_n our_o author_n though_o we_o do_v not_o think_v that_o these_o be_v the_o very_a same_o which_o they_o use_v because_o late_a age_n have_v deface_v they_o and_o foist_v many_o heterogeneous_a thing_n into_o they_o yet_o it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o imagine_v that_o st._n basil_n and_o st._n chrysostome_n do_v not_o compile_v any_o or_o that_o nothing_o of_o these_o be_v of_o their_o compose_n and_o what_o if_o they_o do_v compile_v some_o do_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o they_o require_v all_o minister_n in_o their_o diocese_n to_o use_v they_o but_o the_o truth_n be_v this_o be_v a_o ridiculous_a argument_n to_o prove_v they_o compile_v any_o because_o some_o go_v under_o their_o name_n and_o a_o ridiculous_a answer_n to_o man_n prove_v the_o forgery_n of_o those_o pretend_a liturgy_n from_o the_o use_n of_o term_n not_o know_v in_o their_o age_n of_o rite_n mention_v in_o they_o which_o confess_o come_v not_o in_o of_o hundred_o of_o year_n after_o they_o be_v dead_a and_o of_o prayer_n find_v in_o they_o for_o a_o pope_n and_o a_o emperor_n that_o live_v 500_o year_n after_o they_o be_v dead_a i_o say_v it_o will_v appear_v to_o answer_v all_o this_o a_o most_o silly_a and_o ridiculous_a trifle_n to_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v true_a some_o thing_n be_v foist_v in_o since_o but_o it_o be_v manifest_a they_o make_v liturgy_n and_o some_o part_n of_o those_o liturgy_n how_o be_v it_o manifest_v good_a reader_n observe_v what_o possibility_n of_o proof_n there_o be_v that_o these_o man_n make_v no_o such_o liturgy_n if_o this_o will_v not_o it_o lie_v upon_o they_o to_o prove_v they_o do_v make_v some_o they_o produce_v copy_n divers_a copy_n we_o peruse_v they_o and_o find_v 1._o that_o no_o two_o of_o they_o agree_v each_o with_o other_o 2._o that_o the_o doctrine_n in_o the_o copy_n be_v contrary_a to_o the_o doctrine_n of_o those_o time_n 3._o that_o there_o be_v in_o they_o prayer_n for_o man_n that_o live_v 500_o year_n after_o they_o be_v dead_a 4._o that_o there_o be_v in_o they_o many_o rite_n and_o mode_n of_o worship_n not_o know_v of_o hundred_o of_o year_n after_o they_o be_v both_o dead_a but_o yet_o say_v our_o author_n '_o it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o think_v these_o father_n do_v not_o make_v liturgy_n or_o that_o nothing_o of_o these_o be_v of_o their_o compose_n yea_o it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o assert_v any_o thing_n in_o they_o be_v of_o their_o compose_n for_o what_o be_v there_o to_o prove_v it_o those_o part_n which_o the_o papist_n and_o some_o protestant_n say_v be_v foist_v in_o come_v to_o we_o upon_o the_o same_o tradition_n that_o the_o other_o part_n do_v what_o one_o thing_n be_v there_o in_o any_o of_o these_o liturgy_n which_o none_o but_o basil_n or_o chrysostome_n can_v be_v the_o author_n of_o if_o other_o may_v be_v the_o author_n and_o that_o 500_o year_n after_o how_o do_v it_o appear_v that_o basil_n or_o chrysostome_n must_v we_o be_v sure_o they_o be_v no_o author_n of_o a_o great_a part_n what_o but_o a_o foolish_a fancy_n can_v make_v we_o believe_v they_o be_v the_o author_n of_o any_o part_n of_o they_o but_o the_o truth_n be_v this_o be_v the_o papist_n answer_n my_o lord_n of_o morney_n quote_v espenceus_n de_fw-fr missa_fw-la privata_fw-la p._n 220._o it_o be_v say_v the_o jesuit_n leo_n thuscus_n that_o write_v the_o scholion_n of_o the_o priest_n communicate_v alone_o he_o live_v in_o the_o year_n 1170_o and_o be_v secretary_n to_o emanuel_n the_o great_a emperor_n and_o interpreter_n to_o trithemius_n do_v not_o he_o make_v the_o whole_a liturgy_n and_o have_v respect_n rather_o to_o his_o own_o time_n than_o chrysostom_n which_o say_v he_o i_o mind_v you_o of_o not_o that_o i_o think_v that_o missal_n unworthy_a of_o chrysostome_n or_o the_o greek_a church_n or_o do_v otherwise_o suspect_v it_o but_o think_v it_o begin_v and_o compose_v by_o a_o most_o holy_a man_n and_o enlarge_v by_o put_v in_o many_o thing_n according_a to_o the_o variety_n of_o time_n as_o much_o may_v be_v say_v for_o the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o alcoran_n in_o which_o be_v many_o thing_n of_o primitive_a truth_n though_o mahomet_n have_v put_v in_o a_o world_n of_o foolery_n and_o wickedness_n and_o doubtless_o the_o whole_a be_v of_o no_o primitive_a authority_n though_o there_o be_v much_o primitive_a truth_n in_o it_o from_o hence_o our_o author_n rise_v high_a to_o tell_v we_o of_o st._n james_n and_o st._n mark_v liturgy_n and_o clement_n constitution_n for_o the_o two_o first_o i_o have_v say_v enough_o before_o for_o clement_n choose_v reader_n whether_o thou_o will_v believe_v the_o d._n of_o somerset_n chaplain_n or_o eusebius_n and_o hierome_n who_o live_v above_o 400_o year_n after_o christ_n and_o know_v of_o no_o such_o book_n as_o clement_n constitution_n see_v eusebius_n l._n 3._o cap._n 32._o see_v also_o what_o morney_n say_v of_o this_o l._n 1._o de_fw-la missa_fw-la p._n 46._o cap._n 2._o he_o that_o will_v believe_v all_o in_o bibliotheca_fw-la patrum_fw-la have_v more_o faith_n than_o i_o have_v or_o any_o protestant_n can_v have_v but_o he_o will_v at_o last_o come_v to_o authentic_a testimony_n that_o will_v satisfy_v any_o indifferent_a man_n p._n 56._o if_o compare_v with_o the_o liturgy_n that_o be_v with_o the_o forgery_n aforementioned_a that_o such_o and_o such_o form_n be_v use_v by_o christian_n in_o the_o first_o age_n and_o so_o that_o in_o all_o probability_n they_o be_v direct_v by_o the_o apostle_n or_o apostolical_a man_n use_v be_v not_o enough_o if_o he_o can_v prove_v it_o they_o must_v be_v universal_o use_v or_o require_v to_o be_v universal_o use_v but_o let_v we_o hear_v what_o proof_n he_o have_v cyprian_n speak_v of_o solemn_a office_n solemnibus_fw-la adimpletis_fw-la that_o must_v be_v understand_v of_o customary_a form_n of_o prayer_n and_o why_o because_o he_o elsewhere_o have_v sursum_fw-la corda_fw-la lift_v up_o your_o heart_n we_o lift_v they_o to_o the_o lord_n in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v they_o pray_v for_o several_a thing_n continual_o and_o earnest_o and_o these_o he_o say_v no_o doubt_n be_v charitable_a form_n use_v in_o morning_n and_o evening-service_n origen_n say_v they_o use_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d appoint_a prayer_n origen_n quote_v a_o form_n of_o three_o line_n questionless_a this_o be_v in_o the_o alexandirian_a liturgy_n tertullian_n mention_n dominica_n solemnia_fw-la and_o tell_v we_o of_o four_o part_n of_o it_o