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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
truth_n	age_n	church_n	time_n	2,142	5	3.6322	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33979	A supplement to a little book entituled, A reasonable account why some pious nonconforming ministers cannot judg it lawful for them to perform their ministerial acts in publick solemn prayer, ordinarily, by the prescribed forms of others : wherein is examined whatsoever Mr. Falconer in his book called, Libertas ecclesiastica, and Mr. Pelling in a book called, The good old way, have said to prove the ancient use of forms of prayers by ministers : and it is proved, that neither of the two aforementioned authors have said anything that proveth the general use, or imposition of such forms of prayer in any considerable part of the church, till Pope Gregories time, which was six hundred years after Christ, nor in any church since the reformation, except that of England, and (which is uncertain) some in Saxony.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.; Pelling, Edward, d. 1718. Good old way.	1680 (1680)	Wing C5343; ESTC R18940	53,644	120

be used and of our opposing our judgment against the concurrent judgment and practice of the Church of Christ in so many several Ages and Nations and against the determination of God himself under the Old Testament and our blessed Saviour under the New These words are not the words of Truth and Soberness nor do they savour of that spirit of Truth and Love which we always had thought did dwell in our Brother For if he means that the Ministers and Christians of all ages have thought it lawful and expedient to draw up forms of Prayer that by them the weaker might be taught to pray nay that those Ministers or People who have not attained that gift may use them still coveting and labouring for that gift until they have attained it none will deny it But all this is nothing to the purpose I know no Nonconformist will deny it but say Let them be in the Church and for that use still The Nonconformists in their Debates upon his Majesties Commission would never have tendred some Emendations of our Liturgy to the Bishops much less a new Liturgy or form if they had been of this mind But if our Reverend Brother means that they have been in the Church required to be used by all the Ministers in their publick Ministration in all ages or in those ages before the Corruptions Idolatry and Superstition of the Papists crept in there is not the least proof made either by our Reverend Brother or any else that we could ever see of a word of truth in the assertion § 17. Let us now take a view of the State of the Church from the year 500 to the year 1500 and see whether the Church was then in such a State that we may conclude all lawful that was during that time admitted in practice All Protestants will deny it especially from the year 700. But let us examine a little In the 5th Century they had got Images into Churches at Constantīnople The Image of the Manger which Chrysostome complains of and of the Virgin Mary saith Nicephorus they had got Altars also Augustine Chrysostome and Salvian often mention them they had also got in Candles using holy Water in Baptism they had also got in Vnction and the custom of giving the Lords Supper to children after Baptism together with the wearing of a white garment after that Sacrament They in many places mingled water with the wine in the Supper Exorcisms were also crept in as Augustin tells us lib. 20. de Civ Dei Lent also crept in in this age as we learn from Augustine Cyril Chrysostome and Maximus Nicephorus tells us also of abundance of Reliques now in fashion Monks and Monasteries began in this age to be very thick The Doctrine of the Church was miserably invaded by Pelagius They began in this age to put only single persons into Ministry in the Latin Church as we may learn from the Council of Toledo from Augustine and Leo. They had now also brought in many new orders of Ministers Acolecthi Exorcists Subdeacons c. From the year 500 to the year 600 we shall yet find a stranger face of the Church the Doctrines of Freewill Justification by works Prayers to the dead Satisfactions for sin Purgatory c. were in this age preached In this age came in the Dedications and Consecrations of Churches the Consecration of Wells for Baptism the Oyl and Chrysm the Consecrations of Altars Cups Corporals the Mass offerings for the dead the seven Letanies Rogations the seven Canonical hours In short almost the whole fardel of the Popish Superstitions It is no great charge to any conscientious man to say he differs in some things from the Ruling part of the Church 5 or 600 years after Christ and that he judgeth it both inexpedient and unlawful for him to do what they did in 40 particulars We must now take our leave of the Romish Synagouge from whose practices at this time all Protestants in the world differ in a multitude of things both as to Doctrine Worship and Discipline we must go seek for the true Church the next 1000 years in the Valleys of Piedmont in France in the Provinces of Languedec Provence and Dauphiny amongst the Albigenses the poor people of Lions and the Waldenses indeed mostly in the Valleys of Piedmont where we shall find them coopt up in the time of Innocent the Third after St. Dominick had fired him to engage Simon Montford with the French Kings leave to destroy some hundred thousands of them those that escaped went to their Brethren in the Valleys of Piedmont some of them possibly got into Bohemia amongst the Taborites Piccards c. Nor could I ever meet with any that could give me account of any Liturgies they used or which were imposed on them or by them nor do I remember that the Piccards when they came to Luther about 1520 or the Deputies of those of Piedmont when they came to advise with Oecolampadius 1530 though they gave him an account of their Faith Rites and Order yet ever mentioned any thing of Liturgy yet these two bodies of people are the only visible Church we can give any account of retaining any Degrees of Purity in Doctrine Worship or Discipline for a thousand years which is double the time that the Church kept any degrees of Purity after Christ We will freely grant that after the year 600 the Mass-book was Canonically imposed by Pope Gregory and within 200 years more by Charles the Great and except in the Valleys of Piedmont and in Bohemia the Priests generally both used that and after 1200 made their Maker worshipped Images prayed for the Dead and prayed to Saints said their Service in Latin But I hope it is no prejudice to any Protestant that he owns no relation to the Church that did so for a thousand years together and doth so still And now our Reverend Brother sees what his concurrent testimony of the Church in all ages comes to till the year 1520 or thereabouts for ten of those fifteen ages we hope our Reverend Brother agreeth with them no better than we and if he will leave Rome and follow the Woman into the Wilderness where God hid her for 1260 days he will find no Liturgy she carried with her or commanded all her Ministers there to use If our Brother will resolve to abide with the Red Dragon that hath seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns after he hath with his tail drawn down the third part of the Stars of Heaven we mean no more than keep his eye only upon the stately company at Rome that after the year 600 call'd themselves falsly the true Church the only Catholick Church we cannnot help it We believe that all along God had his number of hidden ones within the challenged Jurisdiction of that Church but for the visible governing part of them we leave them soon after Gregory's time believing them far more like a Synagogue of Satan than a

is granted but whereas our Author saith That we may as well conclude from our Act of Vniformity as from these Councils that they gave the first original to forms of Prayer because they are thereby established We answer If in England we had not had the use of forms of Prayer established by the Canon-law in times of Popery and by Acts of Parliament in the time of Edw. 6. and Q. Elizabeth under favour we think we might have concluded that the Act of Vniformity 1662 had given the first original to such an imposition or use And till our Author which he hath not yet done can bring us any Canon of ancient date that commands such an universal use of forms of Prayer in any considerable part of the Church we hope we may conclude that this was the original of such commands or usage and this was in the fifth Century when the truths in matter of Doctrine as well as Rites were in a great measure corrupred as I may possibly shew hereafter But for this Council too It is true there was a Council held at Mela 402 years after Christ in the time of Pope Innocent the first if we may believe Caranza Chytraeus and others it was held when Arcadius and Honorius were Emperours That Province was as to the Ministry unmeasurably tainted with Pelagianism their eight first Canons are against his Doctrine it will not be amiss to give the Reader the sum of those Canons from whence he may judg That it was reasonable that until the Church could be purged of that leaven considering the great corruption of the Ministers such a restriction should be put upon the Ministers of that Province as to their publick prayers Can. 1. It pleased all the Bishops met together in this Synod to ordain what things were defined in this Synod That whosoever shall say that the first man Adam was made mortal so as whether he sinned or no he should die not because of the merit of sin but from a necessity of nature Let him be Anathema Can. 2. It also pleased them That if any shall deny that young Infants are to be baptized or shall say that they are baptized for the remission of sins but they draw no such original sin from Adam which should be washed away in the laver of Baptism from whence it followeth that in them the form of Baptism for the remission of sin is not tru ' but false Let him be Anathema Because what the Apostle saith can be no otherwise understood than as the Church hath always understood it Rom. 5. By one man sin entred into the world and death by sin and so death passed over all men because all had sinned For by reason of this rule of faith little ones who have actually committed no sin are therefore truly baptized for the remission of sins that the filth contracted by Generation may be cleansed away by Regeneration Can. 3. It also pleased them c. That if any one say that the Grace of God by which we are justified by Jesus Christ our Lord was only of force for remission of sins which are committed and not also for our assistance against future commissions he should be Anathema Can. 4. If any one shall say That the grace of God through Jesus Christ doth no further help us against sinning than as it revealeth to us and openeth our understanding to understand the commandments of God that we may know what to desire and to avoid and that it is no effect of grace to enable us to love and to do what we know we ought to do let him be Anathema For whereas the Apostle saith Knowledg puffeth up Charity edifieth It is impious to believe that there is a word of the grace of God for that which puffeth up and none for that which edifieth both being the gift of God both to know what we ought to do and to love to do it that through the edifying of love our knowledg may ●…t puff us up As it is written concerning God That he teacheth man knowledg so it is also written Love is from God Can. 5. It also pleased them to Decree That if any shall say that we are therefore justified by Grace that we may more easily by Grace fulfil what we are commanded to do by the power of our own will although if grace were not given though it would not be easie yet it would be possible to fulfil the commands of God let him be Anathema For our Lord speaketh concerning obedience to Gods commandments when he saith Without me you can do nothing He doth not say Without me you cannot without difficulty do any thing Can. 6. It also pleased them c. That whereas St. John saith If we say we have no sin we deceive our selves and the truth is not in us whosoever shall say this is the sense That out of humility we ought to say we have no sin Let him be Anathema For it followeth and is added by the Apostle But if we confess our sins he is just and righteous to forgive them and to purge us from all iniquity From whence it is plain that the Apostle speaks not of speaking in humility but speaking in truth For the Apostle might have said If we say we have no sin we extol our selves and there is no humility in us But he saying We deceive our selves and there is no truth in us he plaine●● sheweth that he who saith he hath no sin did not speak truth but what was false Can. 7. It also pleased them c. That whosoever should say that the Saints in the Lords-Prayer praying Forgive us our sins do not speak it for them for it is not for them necessary but for other sinners in the congregation and therefore the several Saints do not say Forgive me my sins but forgive us our sins that the righteous man might be understood not to put up that petition so much for himself as for others Let him be Anathema For St. James was holy and righteous when he said In many things we offend all Why doth he say all but that his sentence might agree with that in the Psalm Enter not into judgment with thy servant O Lord because in thy sight shall no flesh be justified And that in Solomon's Prayer There is none that liveth and sinneth not And that in Job He sealeth up the head of all men that every man might know his infirmity Vpon which holy and righteous Daniel speaking in his Prayer in the Plural Number saith We have sinned we have done wickedly c. What he speaketh there he speaketh both truly and humbly and that none might think as some now do that he did not speak of his own but of his peoples sins he afterwards saith When I pray'd and confessed my sins and the sins of my people unto the Lord our God He would not say our sins but my sins and the sins of my people as a Prophet foreseeing there would be some arise

the most orthodox people and it would be enquired in England at this day whether there be more Socinians Pelagians and Papists amongst those that adore the Liturgy or amongst those who have no kindness for that or any other Let but the understanding Reader judg of all the rest he saith by the truth of this In the next place he saith it cannot be denied but Liturgies were in use in St. Basils and St. Chrysostomes time generally who were about 380 years after Christ and why cannot this be denied because he saith Liturgies are extant under their names This learned argument will prove that there were also Liturgies in St. Marks St. Peters St. James and St. Andrews time for there are Liturgies out also under their names yet this is all this Author hath to say why no body should deny what he saith as if there were not 100 books extant under the names of the Ancients which not only Rivet and Cocus amongst the Protestants but Possevine Sixtus Senensis Erasmus and Bellarmine amongst the Papists have denied to be theirs men all as learned as our Author I have before shewed that the Liturgies going under their names could not be theirs The noble and learned Lord of Mornay whom our Author sometimes speaks highly of l. 1. de missa cap. 6. saith Liturgies has omnes falsi postulo I charge all these Liturgies as false In both of them as was said before is the hymn 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which came 200 years after into the Church in both Confessors are mentioned whose names were not known of many years after in both the Virgin Mary is called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a term not admitted in common use till after the Council at Ephesus 436. In both of them there is Incensing Many other reasons the Reader may find in Morney in the Chapter before quoted c. But faith our Author Though we do not think that these are the very same which they used because later ages have defaced them and foisted many heterogeneous things into them yet 't is Ridiculous to imagine that St. Basil and St. Chrysostome did not compile any or that nothing of these was of their composing And what if they did compile some doth it therefore follow that they required all Ministers in their Diocesses to use them But the truth is this is a ridiculous argument to prove they compiled any because some go under their names and a ridiculous answer to men proving the forgery of those pretended Liturgies from the use of terms not known in their Ages of rites mentioned in them which confessedly came not in of hundreds of years after they were dead and of Prayers found in them for a Pope and an Emperor that lived 500 years after they were dead I say it will appear to answer all this a most silly and ridiculous trifling to tell us It is true some things are foisted in since but 't is manifest they made Liturgies and some parts of those Liturgies How is it manifest Good Reader observe what possibility of proof there is that these men made no such Liturgies if this will not it lyes upon them to prove they did make some They produce Copies divers Copies we peruse them and find 1. That no two of them agree each with other 2. That the Doctrine in the Copies is contrary to the Doctrine of those times 3. That there is in them Prayers for men that lived 500 years after they were dead 4. That there are in them many rites and modes of worship not known of hundreds of years after they were both dead But yet saith our Author ' t is Ridiculous to think these Fathers did not make Liturgies or that nothing of these was of their composing yea 't is ridiculous to assert any thing in them was of their composing for what is there to prove it Those parts which the Papists and some Protestants say are foisted in come to us upon the same Tradition that the other parts do What one thing is there in any of these Liturgies which none but Basil or Chrysostome could be the Author of If others might be the Authors and that 500 years after how doth it appear that Basil or Chrysostome must we are sure they were no Authors of a great part what but a foolish fancy can make us believe they were the Authors of any part of them But the truth is this is the Papists answer My Lord of Morney quotes Espenceus de missa privata p. 220. It was saith the Jesuit Leo Thuscus that wrote the Scholion of the Priests communicating alone he lived in the year 1170 and was Secretary to Emanuel the Great Emperour and Interpreter to Trithemius Did not he make the whole Liturgy and had respect rather to his own times than Chrysostomes Which saith he I mind you of not that I think that Missal unworthy of Chrysostome or the Greek Church or do otherwise suspect it but think it began and composed by a most holy man and enlarged by putting in many things according to the variety of times As much might be said for the Antiquity of the Alcoran in which are many things of Primitive truth though Mahomet hath put in a world of fooleries and wickedness and doubtless the whole is of no Primitive authority though there be much Primitive truth in it From hence our Author rises higher to tell us of St. James and St. Marks Liturgies and Clements Constitutions for the two first I have said enough before For Clement chuse Reader whether thou wilt believe the D. of Somersets Chaplain or Eusebius and Hierome who lived above 400 years after Christ and knew of no such book as Clements Constitutions see Eusebius l. 3. cap. 32. See also what Morney saith of this l. 1. de missa p. 46. cap. 2. He that will believe all in Bibliotheca patrum hath more faith than I have or any Protestant can have But he will at last come to authentick Testimonies that will satisfie any indifferent man p. 56. if compared with the Liturgies that is with the forgeries aforementioned that such and such forms were used by Christians in the first ages and so that in all probability they were directed by the Apostles or Apostolical men Vsed is not enough if he could prove it they must be universally used or required to be universally used But let us hear what proof he hath Cyprian speaks of solemn Offices solemnibus adimpletis that must be understood of customary forms of Prayer and why because he elsewhere hath sursum corda Lift up your hearts We lift them to the Lord. In another place he saith they prayed for several things continually and earnestly and these he saith no doubt were charitable forms used in Morning and Evening-Service Origen saith they used 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 appointed Prayers Origen quotes a form of three lines Questionless this was in the Alexandirian Liturgy Tertullian mentions Dominica solemnia and tells us of four parts of it