Selected quad for the lemma: state_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
state_n church_n power_n society_n 1,162 5 9.1993 5 false
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A55926 A third letter concerning toleration in defense of The argument of the letter concerning toleration, briefly consider'd and answer'd. Proast, Jonas. 1691 (1691) Wing P3539; ESTC R26905 76,552 84

There are 2 snippets containing the selected quad. | View original text

government_n yield_v and_o according_o i_o say_v they_o be_v institute_v for_o the_o attain_n of_o all_o the_o benefit_n which_o civil_a society_n or_o political_a government_n can_v yield_v and_o this_o i_o take_v to_o be_v so_o plain_a a_o truth_n that_o i_o think_v it_o no_o great_a boldness_n to_o usher_v it_o in_o with_o a_o doubtless_o and_o i_o confess_v i_o be_o still_o so_o much_o of_o the_o same_o mind_n that_o i_o can_v hardly_o believe_v that_o any_o man_n who_o have_v not_o a_o very_a urgent_a occasion_n will_v make_v any_o question_n of_o it_o for_o if_o what_o have_v hitherto_o be_v universal_o acknowledge_v be_v true_a viz._n that_o no_o power_n be_v give_v in_o vain_a but_o to_o be_v use_v upon_o occasion_n i_o think_v a_o very_a little_a logic_n may_v serve_v a_o man_n to_o draw_v this_o conclusion_n from_o it_o that_o all_o society_n be_v institute_v for_o the_o attain_v all_o the_o good_a or_o all_o the_o benefit_n they_o be_v enable_v to_o attain_v because_o if_o you_o except_o any_o of_o those_o benefit_n you_o will_v be_v oblige_v to_o admit_v that_o the_o power_n of_o attain_v they_o be_v give_v in_o vain_a nor_o will_v it_o follow_v from_o hence_o that_o all_o society_n be_v institute_v for_o one_o and_o the_o same_o end_n as_o you_o imagine_v it_o will_v unless_o you_o suppose_v all_o society_n enable_v by_o the_o power_n they_o be_v endue_v with_o to_o attain_v the_o same_o end_n which_o i_o believe_v no_o man_n hitherto_o do_v ever_o affirm_v and_o therefore_o notwithstanding_o this_o position_n there_o may_v be_v still_o as_o great_a a_o difference_n as_o you_o please_v between_o church_n and_o state_n a_o commonwealth_n and_o a_o army_n or_o between_o a_o family_n and_o the_o east-india_n company_n which_o several_a society_n as_o they_o be_v institute_v for_o different_a end_n so_o be_v they_o likewise_o furnish_v with_o different_a power_n proportionate_a to_o their_o respective_a ends._n 52._o to_o your_o next_o paragraph_n after_o what_o have_v already_o be_v say_v i_o think_v it_o may_v suffice_v to_o say_v as_o follow_v though_o perhaps_o the_o peripatetic_a philosophy_n may_v not_o be_v true_a and_o perhaps_o it_o be_v no_o great_a matter_n if_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o the_o true_a religion_n be_v undoubted_o true_a and_o though_o perhaps_o a_o great_a many_o have_v not_o time_n nor_o part_n to_o study_v that_o philosophy_n and_o perhaps_o it_o may_v be_v no_o great_a matter_n neither_o if_o they_o have_v not_o yet_o all_o that_o have_v the_o true_a religion_n due_o tender_v they_o have_v time_n and_o all_o but_o idiotes_n and_o madman_n have_v part_n likewise_o to_o study_v it_o as_o much_o as_o it_o be_v necessary_a for_o they_o to_o study_v it_o and_o though_o perhaps_o a_o great_a many_o who_o have_v study_v that_o philosophy_n cannot_v be_v convince_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o which_o perhaps_o be_v no_o great_a wonder_n yet_o no_o man_n ever_o study_v the_o true_a religion_n with_o such_o care_n and_o diligence_n as_o he_o may_v and_o ought_v to_o use_v and_o with_o a_o honest_a mind_n but_o he_o be_v convince_v of_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o and_o that_o those_o who_o can_v otherwise_o be_v bring_v to_o do_v this_o shall_v be_v a_o little_a disturb_v and_o disease_v to_o bring_v they_o to_o it_o i_o take_v to_o be_v the_o interest_n not_o only_o of_o those_o particular_a person_n who_o by_o this_o mean_n may_v be_v bring_v into_o the_o way_n of_o salvation_n but_o of_o the_o commonwealth_n likewise_o upon_o these_o two_o account_n 1._o because_o the_o true_a religion_n which_o this_o method_n propagate_v make_v good_a man_n and_o good_a man_n be_v always_o the_o best_a subject_n or_o member_n of_o a_o commonwealth_n not_o only_o as_o they_o do_v more_o sincere_o and_o zealous_o promote_v the_o public_a good_a than_o other_o man_n but_o likewise_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o favour_n of_o god_n which_o they_o often_o procure_v to_o the_o society_n of_o which_o they_o be_v member_n and_o 2._o because_o this_o care_n in_o any_o commonwealth_n of_o god_n honour_n and_o man_n salvation_n entitle_v it_o to_o his_o special_a protection_n and_o blessing_n so_o that_o where_o this_o method_n be_v use_v it_o prove_v both_o a_o spiritual_a and_o a_o civil_a benefit_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n you_o say_v i_o speak_v very_o improper_o 53._o or_o rather_o very_o mistaken_o if_o i_o call_v such_o benefit_n as_o may_v any_o way_n i._n e._n indirect_o and_o at_o a_o distance_n or_o by_o accident_n be_v attain_v by_o civil_a or_o any_o other_o society_n the_o end_n for_o which_o it_o be_v institute_v whereas_o indeed_o the_o mistake_n lie_v on_o your_o side_n which_o i_o must_v now_o again_o put_v you_o in_o mind_n of_o in_o think_v that_o by_o indirect_o and_o at_o a_o distance_n i_o mean_v by_o accident_n in_o your_o sense_n which_o i_o no_o where_o give_v you_o any_o occasion_n to_o think_v and_o therefore_o i_o can_v easy_o admit_v that_o nothing_o can_v in_o reason_n be_v reckon_v among_o the_o end_n of_o any_o society_n but_o what_o may_v in_o reason_n be_v suppose_v to_o be_v design_v by_o those_o who_o enter_v into_o it_o though_o i_o see_v no_o reason_n why_o the_o author_n or_o institutor_n of_o any_o society_n especial_o of_o civil_a society_n may_v not_o be_v suppose_v to_o design_n more_o than_o those_o usual_o do_v who_o enter_v in●o_o it_o but_o what_o follow_v from_o this_o why_o you_o say_v no_o body_n can_v in_o reason_n suppose_v that_o any_o one_o enter_v into_o civil_a society_n for_o the_o procure_n secure_v or_o advance_v the_o salvation_n of_o his_o soul_n when_o he_o for_o that_o end_n need_v not_o the_o force_n of_o civil_a society_n so_o that_o it_o seem_v the_o reason_n why_o the_o procure_n secure_v or_o advance_v the_o salvation_n of_o soul_n must_v not_o be_v reckon_v among_o the_o end_n of_o civil_a society_n be_v because_o there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o the_o force_n of_o civil_a society_n for_o that_o end_n the_o contrary_a whereof_o have_v i_o suppose_v already_o be●n_o sufficient_o make_v good_a but_o whereas_o i_o say_v 1●_n doubtless_o commonwealth_n be_v institute_v for_o the_o attain_n of_o all_o the_o benefit_n which_o political_a government_n can_v yield_v 53._o and_o therefore_o etc._n etc._n upon_o the_o same_o ground_n say_v you_o thus_o i_o reason_n doubtless_o church_n be_v institute_v for_o the_o attain_n of_o all_o the_o benefit_n which_o ecclesiastical_a government_n can_v yield_v and_o therefore_o if_o the_o temporal_a and_o secular_a interest_n of_o man_n may_v any_o way_n be_v procure_v or_o advance_v by_o ecclesiastical_a polity_n the_o procure_n and_o advance_v those_o interest_n must_v in_o all_o reason_n be_v reckon_v among_o the_o end_n of_o religious_a society_n and_o so_o consequent_o fall_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o churchman_n jurisdiction_n well_o sir_n i_o admit_v the_o consequence_n and_o do_v free_o own_v the_o procure_n and_o advance_v the_o temporal_a and_o secular_a interest_n of_o man_n to_o be_v one_o of_o the_o end_n a_o inferior_a or_o secundary_a end_n of_o religious_a society_n etc._n etc._n and_o what_o do_v you_o conclude_v from_o thence_o why_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n you_o say_v have_v open_o make_v its_o advantage_n of_o secular_a interest_n to_o be_v procure_v or_o advance_v indirect_o and_o at_o a_o distance_n and_o in_o ordine_fw-la ad_fw-la spiritualia_fw-la all_o ●hich_v way_n if_o i_o mistake_v not_o english_a be_v comprehend_v under_o your_o any_o way_n but_o i_o do_v not_o remember_v that_o any_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n have_v hitherto_o direct_o profess_v it_o but_o there_o be_v a_o time_n for_o all_o thing_n so_o that_o it_o seem_v what_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v open_o make_v its_o advantage_n of_o i_o be_o endeavour_v to_o bring_v it_o in_o at_o a_o backdoor_n to_o the_o reform_a church_n for_o that_o i_o take_v to_o be_v the_o thing_n you_o will_v insinuate_v by_o these_o word_n but_o what_o be_v it_o i_o beseech_v you_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v open_o make_v its_o advantage_n of_o for_o i_o confess_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o you_o mean_v by_o secular_a interest_n to_o be_v procure_v or_o advance_v indirect_o and_o at_o a_o distance_n and_o in_o ordine_fw-la ad_fw-la spiritualia_fw-la that_o some_o of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n have_v make_v their_o advantage_n of_o a_o power_n they_o claim_v to_o dispose_v of_o all_o secular_a matter_n as_o they_o think_v fit_a even_o to_o the_o depose_n of_o king_n and_o emperor_n and_o the_o bestow_v their_o dominion_n on_o whosoever_o they_o please_v and_o that_o they_o claim_v this_o power_n as_o belong_v to_o they_o at_o least_o as_o bellarmine_n mince_v the_o matter_n not_o direct_o and_o immediate_o i._n e._n not_o for_o the_o procure_n or_o advance_v man_n secular_a
you_o seem_v here_o to_o do_v that_o i_o be_o for_o punish_v dissenter_n whether_o they_o consider_v or_o no_o you_o be_v in_o a_o great_a mistake_n for_o the_o dissenter_n which_o be_v your_o word_n and_o not_o i_o who_o i_o be_o for_o punish_v be_v only_o such_o as_o reject_v the_o true_a religion_n propose_v to_o they_o with_o reason_n and_o argument_n sufficient_a to_o convince_v they_o of_o the_o truth_n of_o it_o who_o therefore_o can_v never_o be_v suppose_v to_o consider_v those_o reason_n and_o argument_n as_o they_o ought_v whilst_o they_o persist_v in_o reject_v that_o religion_n or_o in_o your_o language_n while_o they_o continue_v dissenter_n for_o if_o they_o do_v so_o consider_v they_o they_o will_v not_o continue_v dissenters_o 13._o 2._o you_o say_v to_o punish_v man_n out_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o national_a church_n to_o make_v they_o consider_v be_v unjust_a they_o be_v punish_v because_o out_o of_o the_o national_a church_n and_o they_o be_v out_o of_o the_o national_a church_n because_o they_o be_v not_o yet_o convince_v their_o stand_v out_o therefore_o in_o this_o state_n while_o they_o be_v not_o convince_v not_o satisfy_v in_o their_o mind_n be_v no_o fault_n and_o therefore_o can_v just_o be_v punish_v to_o which_o i_o answer_v where_o the_o national_a church_n be_v the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n to_o which_o all_o man_n ought_v to_o join_v themselves_o and_o sufficient_a evidence_n be_v offer_v to_o convince_v man_n that_o it_o be_v so_o there_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n to_o be_v out_o of_o the_o national_a church_n because_o it_o be_v a_o fault_n not_o to_o be_v convince_v that_o the_o national_a church_n be_v that_o true_a church_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o since_o there_o man_n not_o be_v so_o convince_v can_v only_o be_v impute_v to_o their_o not_o consider_v as_o they_o ought_v the_o evidence_n which_o be_v offer_v to_o convince_v they_o it_o can_v be_v unjust_a to_o punish_v they_o to_o make_v they_o so_o to_o consider_v it_o what_o justice_n it_o will_v be_v for_o the_o magistrate_n to_o punish_v i_o for_o not_o be_v a_o cartesian_a 13._o it_o will_v be_v time_n enough_o to_o consider_v when_o you_o have_v prove_v it_o to_o be_v ●s_n necessary_a for_o man_n to_o be_v cartesian_o as_o it_o be_v to_o be_v christian_n or_o member_n of_o god_n church_n 3._o you_o say_v 13._o whatever_o indirect_a efficacy_n there_o be_v in_o force_n apply_v your_o way_n it_o make_v against_o you_o force_v use_v by_o the_o magistrate_n to_o bring_v man_n to_o consider_v those_o reason_n and_o argument_n which_o be_v proper_a and_o sufficient_a to_o convince_v they_o but_o which_o without_o be_v force_v they_o will_v not_o consider_v may_v say_v you_o be_v serviceable_a indirect_o and_o at_o a_o distance_n to_o make_v man_n embrace_v the_o truth_n which_o must_v save_v they_o and_o thus_o say_v i_o it_o may_v be_v serviceable_a to_o bring_v man_n to_o receive_v and_o embrace_v falsehood_n which_o will_v destroy_v they_o how_o sir_n may_v force_v use_v by_o the_o magistrate_n to_o bring_v man_n to_o consider_v those_o reason_n and_o argument_n which_o be_v proper_a and_o sufficient_a to_o convince_v they_o be_v serviceable_a to_o bring_v man_n to_o embrace_v falsehood_n such_o falsehood_n as_o will_v destroy_v they_o it_o ●eems_v then_o there_o be_v reason_n and_o argument_n which_o be_v proper_a and_o sufficient_a to_o convince_v man_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o falsehood_n which_o will_v destroy_v they_o which_o be_v certain_o a_o very_a extraordinary_a discovery_n though_o such_o as_o no_o man_n can_v have_v any_o reason_n to_o thank_v you_o for_o that_o god_n in_o his_o just_a judgement_n will_v send_v such_o as_o receive_v not_o the_o love_n of_o the_o truth_n that_o they_o may_v be_v save_v but_o reject_v it_o for_o the_o pleasure_n they_o have_v in_o unrighteousness_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d strong_a delusion_n i._n e._n such_o reason_n and_o argument_n as_o will_v prevail_v wi●h_a man_n so_o dispose_v to_o believe_v a_o lie_n that_o they_o may_v be_v damn_v this_o i_o confess_v the_o scripture_n plain_o teach_v we_o 12._o but_o that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o reason_n or_o argument_n as_o be_v proper_a and_o sufficient_a to_o convince_v or_o satisfy_v any_o but_o such_o resolute_a and_o obdurate_a sinner_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o such_o falsehood_n as_o will_v destroy_v they_o be_v a_o position_n which_o i_o ●n●sure_v the_o scripture_n do_v not_o teach_v we_o and_o which_o when_o you_o have_v better_o consider_v it_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o undertake_v to_o maintain_v and_o yet_o if_o it_o be_v not_o maintainable_a what_o you_o say_v here_o be_v to_o no_o purpose_n for_o if_o there_o be_v no_o such_o reason_n and_o argument_n as_o he●e_v we_o speak_v of_o it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o talk_v of_o the_o magistrate_n be_v use_v force_n to_o make_v man_n consider_v they_o but_o however_o let_v it_o be_v suppose_v if_o you_o plea●e_v that_o there_o be_v such_o reason_n and_o argument_n as_o be_v proper_a and_o sufficient_a to_o convince_v man_n of_o the_o truth_n of_o falsehood_n which_o will_v destroy_v they_o and_o that_o force_v apply_v by_o the_o magistrate_n to_o make_v man_n consider_v the●_n may_v be_v serviceable_a to_o bring_v man_n to_o receive_v and_o embrace_v such_o falsehood_n what_o will_v you_o conclude_v from_o thence_o may_v it_o not_o be_v tr●e_o nevertheless_o that_o force_v use_v by_o the_o magistrate_n to_o bring_v man_n to_o consider_v those_o reason_n and_o argument_n which_o be_v proper_a and_o sufficient_a to_o convince_v they_o but_o which_o without_o be_v force_v they_o will_v not_o consider_v may_v be_v serviceable_a indirect_o and_o at_o a_o distance_n to_o bring_v man_n to_o embrace_v the_o truth_n which_o must_v save_v they_o which_o be_v all_o that_o i_o be_o here_o concern_v to_o make_v good_a but_o not_o content_a to_o say_v that_o force_v my_o way_n apply_v i.e._n to_o bring_v man_n to_o embrace_v the_o truth_n which_o must_v save_v they_o may_v be_v serviceable_a to_o bring_v man_n to_o embrace_v falsehood_n which_o will_v destroy_v they_o and_o so_o be_v proper_a to_o do_v as_o much_o harm_n as_o good_a which_o seem_v strange_a enough_o you_o add_v to_o encreate_v the_o wonder_n that_o in_o my_o indirect_a way_n 14._o it_o be_v much_o more_o proper_a and_o likely_a to_o make_v man_n receive_v and_o embrace_v error_n than_o the_o truth_n and_o that_o 1._o because_o man_n out_o of_o the_o right_a way_n be_v as_o apt_a and_o you_o think_v you_o may_v say_v apt_a to_o use_v force_n than_o other_o which_o be_v doubtless_o a_o irrefragable_a demonstration_n that_o force_v use_v by_o the_o magistrate_n to_o bring_v man_n to_o receive_v and_o embrace_v the_o truth_n which_o ●ust_z save_v they_o be_v much_o more_o proper_a and_o likely_a to_o make_v man_n receive_v error_n than_o the_o truth_n but_o sir_n i_o beseech_v you_o how_o come_v we_o to_o talk_v here_o of_o what_o man_n out_o of_o the_o right_a way_n be_v apt_a to_o do_v to_o bring_v other_o into_o their_o i_o e._n a_o wrong_a way_n where_o we_o be_v only_o inquire_v what_o may_v be_v do_v to_o bring_v man_n to_o the_o right_a way_n for_o that_o i_o must_v put_v you_o in_o mind_n be_v our_o question_n viz._n whether_o the_o magistrate_n have_v any_o right_a to_o use_v force_n to_o bring_v man_n to_o the_o true_a religion_n now_o whereas_o our_o author_n say_v that_o penalty_n 8._o or_o force_n be_v absolute_o impertinent_a in_o this_o case_n because_o it_o be_v not_o proper_a to_o convince_v the_o mind_n to_o which_o i_o answer_v 5._o that_o though_o force_v be_v not_o proper_a to_o convince_v the_o mind_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o absolute_o impertinent_a in_o this_o case_n because_o it_o may_v however_o do_v some_o service_n towards_o the_o bring_n man_n to_o embrace_v the_o truth_n which_o must_v save_v they_o by_o bring_v ●hem_n to_o consider_v those_o reason_n and_o argument_n which_o be_v proper_a to_o convince_v the_o mind_n and_o which_o without_o be_v force_v they_o will_v not_o consider_v here_o you_o tell_v i_o no_o but_o it_o be_v much_o more_o proper_a and_o likely_a to_o make_v man_n receive_v and_o embrace_v error_n than_o truth_n because_o ●en_o out_o of_o the_o right_a way_n be_v as_o apt_a and_o perhaps_o apt_a to_o use_v force_n than_o other_o which_o be_v as_o good_a a_o proof_n i_o believe_v as_o the_o thing_n will_v admit_v for_o otherwise_o i_o suppose_v you_o will_v have_v give_v we_o a_o better_a as_o to_o what_o you_o say_v here_o 14_o on_o the_o by_o of_o the_o mildness_n and_o gentleness_n of_o the_o gospel_n which_o be_v apt_a to_o use_v prayer_n and_o entreaty_n then_o force_v to_o gain_v a_o hear_n i_o shall_v only_o demand_v of_o you_o whether_o the_o mildness_n and_o gentleness_n of_o