Selected quad for the lemma: spirit_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
spirit_n	father_n	name_n	son_n	14,571	5	5.9519	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B09776	The Anabaptists meribah: or, VVaters of strife. Being a reply to a late insulting pamphlet, written by Thomas Lamb, merchant, intitulled, Truth prevailing against the fiercest opposition; or, An answer to Mr. John Goodwins Water-dipping, no firm footing for church-communion. Wherein the impertinency of M. Lamb's answer, and the validity of M. Goodwin's Water-dipping, &c. are manifested by I. Price a member of the Church of Christ, whereof the said Mr. Goodwin is pastor.	Price, J., fl. 1656.	1656 (1656)	Wing P3332A; ESTC R182056	87,699	107

with teaching by name in the commission of Christ and the same presence of Christ promised ioyntly to Baptism as teaching to the end of the world and serving the Grand Interest of Remission of Sins and Salvation in some sense and commanded by Christ to be done upon discipled persons and that with huge solemnity in the Name of the Father Son and Spirit and that too amongst the last words he spake on earth SECT XXVI THat Baptism with VVater is one of Christs commands Reply is our belief as well as yours But what you mean in these words and joyn'd with teaching by name in the commission of Christ I do not wel understand If you understand the particle and distributively thus That Christ commanded or appointed his Disciples to Teach as wel as to Baptise your Yea in that sense is our Amen But if you mean and understand the Particle and conjunctively as I think you do in this sense as if Baptism and Teaching must be companions and go together then it is denyed For if there must be teaching whereever there is baptizing because they are joyned together in the commission then it will follow that there must be baptizing whereever there is this teaching upon the same ground because in the Commission baptizing is as well joyn'd with teaching as teaching with baptizing if you say Teaching must precede baptizing Obj. because it is put before it in the Commission SECT XXVII J Answer Answ first That the Prelocation of the word teaching in the Commission before baptizing is no more an argument that teaching must precede baptizing in time than the prelocation of the word Iacob before Esau in Rom. the 9th 13. doth argue that Iacob was the elder brother no more then because we have Iacob also mentioned before Abraham in the 7th of Micah 20. that therefore Abraham was born after Iacob Yea Mark 1.4 We have baptizing mentioned before teaching or preaching Iohn did baptize in the wilderness and preach the Baptism of Repentance c. SECT XXVIII 2. THe Commission you see is concerning Nations Mat. 28.19 The word Nations doth include children Go ye therefore and teach all Nations haptizing them it is not go teach every person Baptizing them It is not denyed but Nations must be taught before Nations be baptized and families must be taught before families be baptized that is those that are capable in both must be taught and more than taught before they be baptized But this doth no more argue that every individuall person must be taught yea and must understand and receive that teaching before they be baptized than it did follow that because the Nation of Israel was to be taught and instructed in the wayes of God under the Law before circumcision that therefore none of their children must be circumcised untill they were first actually taught and instructed Genesis 17. and the ten first verses you will find that God first instructed Abraham in the Doctrine of his Covenant and afterward imposed upon him Circumcision which was a seal of the righteousness of faith or of the Covenant of Justification by Faith The Nation of the Jews were Gods taught people before circumcised and this is most apparent that the Proselytes of the Gentiles were first instructed before they became Jews This did not argue that their children must not or might not be circumcised before they were likewise actually instructed You know they were to be circumcised by the express command of God You have replyed to your self in mentioning the word of God they had the express command of God for their circumcision Object shew us the like for baptism and we shall give all up unto you SECT XXIX IF God gave his express commands to circumcise the children of taught Parents Answ or of Parents instructed in the Mysteries of the Doctrine of circumcision before those children were capable of any such teachings or of understanding the same then it will follow that there was a time when children even Infants at eight dayes old were capable subjects of such Ordinances of God and of Christ for they were his Ordinances which were very mysterious and spirituall Children in Gods acceptation capable of circumcision and the Doctrine thereof under the Law why not alike capable of baptism and the doctrine thereof under the Gospel and which they could not understand untill they came to years of discretion and that God did thereby instruct their Parents in the extent of his grace through the Mediation of Christ or the Messiah unto them and their children except they themselves did afterwards reject and refuse the same which was matter of great comfort to them If children were thus capable under the Law except you can find that they are expresly or by infallible consequence from the Scriptures excluded under the Gospel by what authority dare you exclude them Are they not as capable of the Doctrine of Baptism as the children of the Jews were of circumcision Were not there as deep Mysteries in the Ordinance of Circumcision as there are in the Ordinance of Baptism Did God did Christ command circumcision to children under the Law and hath God hath Christ forbidden or prohibited Baptism unto children under the Gospel If so shew us where and we have no more to say And whereas you say shew us an express command for the Baptizing of children the text is at hand Mat. 28.19 Go ye therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son Gods express command for baptizing of children and of the Holy Ghost Are not Nations made up of men women and children 'T is true children are not nam'd in the Commission neither are men or women named if children must be excluded because not named why do you not exclude men and women upon the same reason and whom then will you baptize If you say those that are actually capable of teaching and no more I answer then you obey not the extent of the Commission which is not to baptize the capable part in your sense of Nations but all Nations If the Jews consisting of men women and children were a taught Nation in Scripture Language and in Gods acceptation why may not a Nation of the Gentiles consisting of men women and children be likewise a taught Nation and the men women and children thereof receive all the characters and signs of Gods gracious acceptation of them all as well as the Jews did If by the word Nation in Scripture when applyed to the Jews the men women and children of the Jews are intended as you know they are and as will appear by the Texts in the Margin * Deut. 4.34 Deut. 32.28 2 Sam. 7.23 1 Chron. 17.21 Psal 83.4 Psal 147.20 Isa 1.4 Luke 7.5 c. Act. 8.28 Gal. 3.14 Eph. 3.6 why then by the word nation when applyed to the Gentiles shall we not understand the men women and children also And whereas the Text saith Go teach all nations I

in the Name of the Father Son and Spirit and that too amongst the last words he spake on Earth I Shall only offer this that those words in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost do not imply the huge solemnity of the administration to speak in your uncouth expression but a consecrating them unto the service of God discovered now unto them more clearly than formerly to be the Father Son and Holy Ghost it makes not one hair of the head of your Opinion about baptizing of persons at age c. white or black And whereas you add with an Emphasis viz. and that too amongst the last words he 1. Christ spake on earth it is so impertinently brought in by you to your purpose that these first words shall be the last words that I shall speak unto them and therefore shall proceed to your third Consideration which you give out thus 3. I find Mr. Lamb in the second Epistle that he Christ intended not the reiteration of it baptism by the same person and that therefore there ought to be all due care of practising it without corruption SECT XXXIV WE have digged in the same field of the Scriptures with you Reply Rebaptization condemned by Mr. Lamb himselfe and have found the same treasures with your self touching what you say in this consideration Only give us a like liberty with your self to add an Use of Reproof or of Correction to yours of Instruction viz. that seeing Christ intended not the Reiteration of baptism that therefore those are here to be reproved for their extream boldness and presumption that shall press persons already consecrated unto the service of the Father Son and Holy Ghost at the Waters of their baptism in the time of their infancie and that upon terms little lower than upon their salvation to a Reiteration of their baptism contrary to the intention of Iesus Christ Your fourth consideration runneth thus 4. Mr. Lamb. I found the design of Christ in the Ordinance it selfe be exceeding rich and spirituall namely amongst many other ends c. SECT XXXV THE Ordinance of baptism is indeed Reply exceeding rich and spirituall but I fear while you seek out the spiritualness and richness thereof administred unto such persons only and after such a manner as you plead for instead of finding these you lose the richness and spiritualness of the baptism you have received in your infancie which however it is or hath been unto you yet that Ordinance administred unto others in their infancie and duly improved in their riper years hath been as a cloud dropping fatness upon their souls and as the Tree of Life yeilding various fruits every month yea every moment of rich and pleasant tasts unto their spiritual palate You proceed in this fourth consideration to shew us wherein consists those rich and Spirituall designes of Christ As 1. Mr. Lamb. To oblige the Disciples unto Christ that as circumcision bound men to keep the law of Moses so doth baptism to keep the law of Christ. Therefore the Spirit borroweth the word baptism which respecteth Christ to express the obligation of the Jews to the law of Moses 1 Cor. 10.2 and were all baptised unto Moses SECT XXXVI HErein I confess that in my judgement you speak after Reply Mr. Lamb by consequents grants that children doe capable subjects of baptism notwithstanding theio infancie or according unto the Oracles of God and the analogy of faith For if circumcision bound men that is those that were partakers of it who were children in their infancie as well as men of riper years if I say circumcision bound the subjects thereof who were children as well as men to keep the Law of Moses why should not baptism bind them to keep the Law of Christ For if circumcision taken or received by children at eight dayes old did binde these children when they came to years of discretion to keep the Law of Moses what tolerable shadow or shew of reason can be given why that Baptism administred now unto children should not also bind them all the after-dayes of their lives to keep the Law of Christ I very much honour and approve of your Orthodoxism in this point at this turn You proceed Further the design of Christ is to affect the heart by the will of God seen in the Ordinance of Baptism Mr. Lamb. as well as heard in the word preached c. SECT XXXVII TO grant you this also in a due and qualified sense were but to grant you out of the aboundance of our own apprehensions in the truth thereof These holy designs of Christ in baptism Reply are as effectually brought about and his heavenly hand hath found out his enterprize herein by baptism administred unto Infants as by the administration of it unto others at age Your four first considerations premised you advance to the fifth This being the plain design of Christ in the ordinance Mr. Lamb. I considered Infants-Sprinckling which ordinarily goeth for baptism and found the great designe of Christ in a manner frustrate by it because there is no Sign or figure of any such thing as death burial and resurrection and consequently not that Sermon of the Gospel which Christ intended to make by it as is most evident by Scriptures which palpably discovereth it to be a humane invention SECT XXXVIII IT seems you took Infant-sprinckling called baptism Reply into your consideration as the Iews did Christ when they looked upon him as the Carpenters Son or as a Root out of a dry ground having no form or comeliness and beauty that it should be desired Mat. 13.55 And hence it is that it is despised and rejected and not esteemed by you Well however to us that believe our Infant-baptism to be by Gods appointment it is precious but unto those that be disobedient unto Gods will therein it is a Stone of stumbling and a Rock of offence I believe it hath been of a higher esteem with you There were some that grew miserably defective both in their opinion of and respects unto the Apostle Paul who once could be willing to pull out their eyes for him which argued themselves but not the Apostle to decline in godliness The true Reason why infant-baptism doth no more good unto some men The truth is as Christ could do no great miracle among those that did not believe even so your misbelief of the mind of God in your Infant-baptism hath hindred the rich and spirituall effects thereof upon your heart and soul But you say You found the great design of Christ frustrate by it viz. by sprinckling of Infants SECT XXXIX IT is not one of the least of mercies purchased by Iesus Christ Reply that there is an attonement made for the ignorances of his people The froward in heart finde no good certain I am if there be tares in that field of Infant-baptism that God sowed wheat there and it

conceive it was to instruct them to inform the world that now the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles also as to the Jews and that the blessing of Abraham is now come upon the Gontiles through Iesus Christ being rejected by the Jews and that the Gentiles should be fellow-heirs and of the fame body and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospell The words Iews nation under the Law were comprehensive importing the men women and children The words Gentiles and nations under the Gospel cannot with the least shew of reason be restrictive importing only men and women with the exclusion of children The salvation sent by God to the Jews the blessing of Abraham that was upon the Jews the Covenant whereof the Jews were heirs was such a salvation such a blessing such a covenant as was assured signed and sealed unto the children of the Jews The children therefore of those Gentiles that accept of this salvation this blessing this covenant which the Jews rejected being in no place of Scripture cut off God forbid that we should dare to cut them off though it seems you dare Consider as it is a cursed thing to add unto the word of God so it is no less a cursed thing to take any thing from the same Christ saith plainly go teach all nations baptizing them viz. all taught nation you say go teach all nations baptizing only such of every nation as are actually taught and instructed In Scripture acceptation men women and children made up the taught nation of the Jews in your sense and meaning only the men and women must be the taught nation of the Gentiles and children excluded The Scripture makes the Covenant of Grace and the figns thereof to belong to the men women and children of the Jews and in the application thereof unto the Gentiles makes use of the same comprehensive Expressions to them as were used to the Jews viz. Gentiles Nation But you will take upon you to cut off more than a third part thereof without any commission or authority from God or from Iesus Christ for your instruction or voucher It is a sin of an equall demerit to pul down Gods posts and set ours up by his as it is to set up by Gods posts any posts of our own Again whereas you adde in this Consideration Mr Lamb. That the same presence of Christ is promised ioyntly to Baptisme as to Teaching to the end of the world SECT XXX I Reply That if by the same presence of Christ you mean the same Reply in respect of reality and truth that is that there is a true and reall presence of Christ promised unto Baptism as there is in Teaching we are Partners with you in the same meaning But if by the same presence of Christ your meaning be the same every way and no otherwaies that is there is one and the self same and no other operating presence of Christ in the Administration of Baptism as there in Teaching or Preaching the Gospel then it is denyed There is a reall but a different presence of Christ in the Baptisme of Infants from that in preaching the word There is a manifold presence of Christ or operation of his Holy Spirit in the preaching of the Gospel which is not at all in the Ministration of Baptism There is nothing symbolicall or otherwaies in baptism preaching Jesus Christ to be the Son of the Virgin Mary that he was betrayed by Judas one of his Disciples that he was the Son of David that he suffered death upon the Cross c. which is to be known by teaching the Gospell and a sutable presence of Christ doth accompany such Doctrines c. But yon insinuate as I conceive such a thing as this in saying there is the same presence of Christ promised unto the Ordinance of Baptism as is promised to that of teaching to the end of the world viz. That there is such a kind of the presence of Christ in teaching which none are capable to understand but persons at years of discretion having personally an actuall capacity of understanding receiving and believing the same and that the self same presence of Christ there is in Baptism whereof children are not capable I mean so to understand and that therefore as teaching belongs not unto Infants because they cannot understand nor enjoy the presence of Christ in that Ordinance even so Baptism be longs not to children because they cannot understand the same neither can they enjoy the presence of Christ therein If this is your meaning I answer SECT XXXI FIrst In what sense children are capable of the Doctrine of baptism that no such presence of Christ is promised unto or doth accompany baptism otherwaies then was promised unto or did accompany the Ordinance of circumcision under the Law The presence of Christ necessary to make the Ordinance of baptism profitable is such a prefence as shall first teach the subjects of Baptism to speak in your Language the Doctrine of dying unto sin rising up and living unto God the Doctrine of mortification of sanctification And secondly such a presence of Christ as shall duly affect their minds with sutable affections and heavenly dispositions under in and by such a vision Such a presence of Christ as this was as necessarie for the usefull improvement of the Ordinance of circumcision of old namely such a presence of Christ as should first teach and instruct the subjects thereof according to their capacities in the Doctrine of the circumcision of the heart the cutting off of the superfluity of naughtiness the circumcision made without hands And thirdly Such a presence of Christ as should duly affect their minds with holy and heavenly sutable affections And the children were not capable of such a presence of Christ yet you know they were by Gods will and pleasure to partake of that Ordinance notwithstanding Surely God did not command the Ordinance of circumcision under the Law but he did vouchsafe his presence unto those upon whom he did enjoyn it Even so as great and effectuall a presence of Christ is promised and performed unto children baptized under the Gospel as was performed unto children circumcised under the Law 2. The presence of Christ promised and made good unto persons that are found under those Ordinances which God hath appointed may not be so much for the present benefit and sensible accommodation of all the true subjects of such an Ordinance as for the immediate benefit of the standers by and persons that are Witnesses thereof And the benefit of Christs presence when it was first administred unto them may not influence it self at least in a sensible manner untill they come to years of discretion As the presence of God blessing the Seeds-man in the act of soweing is not sensibly found untill the Harvest You know the presence of Christ in the administration of circumcision did not appear in the children of the Jews in a spirituall benefit

which you say he hath after used of such splashy Reply shallow watry thin and barren argumentation either pro or con than the writing of seven such boo●s as this is which we now implead You speak much of your findings but if you have found any such place in all his writings namely where he hath denyed that true proper and natural consequences from granted premises in the Scripture are not to be admitted as the truths of God I believe you may rejoyce in it and eat the morsells thereof your self alone having no partner with you therein in any part of the world whereof the Sun in the firmament is Overseer But this is onely to give Mr. Goodwin a running-rap but you could not reach him You procee 8. Mr. Lamb. I found the unregenerate world naturally falling in with childrens baptism which is a shrewd sign is a de●ice of her own the world loveth her own c. SECT XLVIII YOU finde the unregenerate world no more naturally falling in with childrens baptism Reply then you found it naturally falling in with the profession of Christ For they are baptized and do baptize their children in no other name nor into the profession of any other Saviour then Jesus Christ And is not this a shrewd argument that this Doctrine of the Messiah the unregenerate world so naturally falleth in withall is a device of her own the world doth love her own Your 9th particular is summ'd up in this Mr. Lamb. infant-Baptism is unlawfull because baptism being the initiating Ordinance into the Church it letteth in a sort of Members which the New-Testament knoweth not namely such as cannot worship God inspirit God now seeking onely such to worship him The whole bedy must be fitly framed together and every part must effectually work And can these things be affirmed of children SECT XLIX First you affirm that baptism is the innitiating Ordinance into the Church I suppose you mean not the Church generall but dejure it is the initrating Ordinance into particular Churches If that be your meaning Baptism not proved to be the initiating Ordinance into Church-fellowship this then is such a conclusion as you can hardly make good no not by any ifs may-bee's and why-nots gatherable from any place or places in the Holy Scriptures that is to say that baptism did make any person ipsosacto a member of any particular Church But it is proveable that many and many were baptized of whom it is impossible to prove that by baptism or any other way they were ever immembred into any particular Church And it is a difficulty too hard for you or I or any other in the world to undertake namely to prove that all and every particular member of particular Churches were ever baptized at all 2. It is true Gad seeketh such and onely such now to worship him as can worship him in spirit and in truth Iohn 4.23 that is as I conceive according to the context Now the time of reformation approacheth God will be worshipped and obeyed neither in the Iudaicall rites consisting in external performances as some among you so much contend for nor according to the Samaritans false worship who worshipped their Idol Gods together with God 2 King 17.26 27 28 29. but in a pure spirituall manner extending to the very heart such as was typified by those shaddows and the Son of God comes now to draw all men unto this way of worship from the Iudaicall from the Samaritan way This text indeed with severall others renders men uncapable of Church-worship in an acceptable manner that content themselves only with outward forms and yet leading a vitious life But what is this to the exclusion of children As for them here is the grace of the Gospell that he accepteth of little children and would not have men forbidden as you do to bring them to Christ He accepteth according to what any person hath and not according to what he hath not 3. Again God was alwayes a spirit as well as now and he did alwayes seek for such to worship him as should worship him in spirit and in truth as well as now He alwaies loved-truth in the inward parts he alwayes required of all his Sons to give him their hearts in his worship he alwayes commanded the Jews to love the Lord their God with all their hearts and minds and soul and strength Did this under the Law any way hinder that children might not be admitted members of the Iewish Church because they could not perform inward heart-worship and spirituall service did God upon their circumcision accept of them as if they did perform all those spirituall services and heart-duties untill they came to an actuall and personall capacity actually and personally to perform the same And will he not now accept of children baptized as if they did actually and personally perform those services unto him which under the Gospell he requireth untill they likewise come to an actuall and personall capacity so to do And then wil he accept or reject them as they are found faithfull or unfaithfull in these things 4. Whereas you say that the New-Testament knoweth us such member of Churches as infants c. I answer that tho I will not say or deny that the New-Testament knoweth not any infant-members of Churches yet the New Testament knoweth and hath taught others also to know that children are due subjects of Baptism And that it never knew not taught any to know where ever they were or ought to be rejected and denyed the participation thereof Our controversie is not about infant-Church-member-ship but infant-baptism Your tenth Argument for your beliefe in the business of Baptism viz. against Infant-Baptisme and for your separation Mr. Lamb. c. is taken from your observation of the righteous hand of God who causeth the sharpest and most able Adversaries to you in this point to let fall such expressions as justifie what they go about to oppose and condemn as Mr. Richard Baxter saith the aged are 1. the most fully capable subiects 2. the most excellent subiects 3. the most eminent subiects 4. of whom Scripture fully speaketh 5. the greater part of the world when Baptism was instituted who were to be partakers of it But on the contrary for infant-baptism he Mr. Baxter acknowledgeth it so dark in the Scripture that the controversie is thereby become not onely hard but so hard c. SECT L. YOU needed indeed to have written this in Capitall Letters that every one that runs may read the profundity thereof Reply The aged are the most capable subjects of Baptisme Ergo Children are no subjects thereof The aged are the most eminent subjects Ergo Children are no subjects Mr. Lambs miserable inferences from Mr. Baxters words the Scripture speaketh fully of them Ergo not at all of Children The aged were the greater part of the world that did partake of Baptisme Ergo Children were no part of the world that did partake