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A87820 A moderate answer vnto Dr. Bastvvicks book; called Independency not Gods ordinance. Wherein is declared the manner how some churches in this city were gathered, and upon what tearmes their members were admitted; that so both the Dr. and the reader may judge, how near some beleevers who walk together in the fellowship of the gospell, do come in their practice to these apostolicall rules which are propounded by the Dr. as Gods method in gethering churches and admitting members. / By Hanserd Knollys. Printed and published according to order. Imprimatur, Ja: Cranford. Knollys, Hanserd, 1599?-1691. 1645 (1645) Wing K717; Thomason E293_5; ESTC R200159 15,353 23

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be open Enemies and persecuters of the church and then they are justly to bee suspected saith the Dr. page 102. untill they have given publike Evidence by witnesse to the Ministers of their true Conversion and there produceth a plaine instance to prove this page 102. Acts. 9.26,27,28 And when Saul was come to Ierusalem 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 tentabat jungi he assayed to joyne himselfe to the Disciples but they were all afraid of him and beleeved not that hee was a Disciple c. Now this liberty have all the disciples in the like case because Ierusalem the Mother church is the pattern of all other the Daughter Churches as the Doctor confesseth yea affirmeth page 97. And saith all men acknowledge That the Mother Church must give an example of government to all the Daughter churches And this is also by the Doctor acknowledged page 102. to be a part of the power of the Keyes to open and shut the doores of the Church that is to admit such as are for their Faith Knowledge and Repentance sufficiently qualified and fitted to be made members and to refuse such as are not fit to be recived into the fellowship of the church either for their Ignorance or other sins and offences c. Now then when it doth evidently appear That the Disciples or Brethren not to say Sisters though they are Disciples also of the Church in Jerusalem in her most flourishing condition had this libertie to declare their feares and the ground thereof against Paul who was at that time a Beleever a Baptized person a Preacher or minister of the Gospell so that although hee came and assayed to be joyned to the Disciples and be admitted a member among them that he might have fellowship with them in the worship and ordinances of the Gospell Yet was thereby hindered from admittance untill Barnabas witnessed his condition and conversation to the Apostle and then he was with them coming in going out at Jerusalem How can the Doctor make good that ' The Presbyters alone without the consent of Brethren may admit members and cast out members and that the Brethren or the congregation hath nothing to doe to hinder any such thing page 102.106 For further proof hereof ' The Doctor urgeth Act. 8.35 to 40. The example of the Eunuch to whom Philip being sent preached Jesus and Baptisme in his Name and it is related That when they came to a certaine water the Eunuch said unto him See here is Water What doth hinder me to be Baptized And Philip said If thou beleevest with all thy heart thou mayest 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 licet And he answered and said I beleeve that Jesus Christ is the Son of God And he commanded the Charet to stand still And they went downe both into the water both Philip and the Eunuch and he Baptized him Here we set saith the Doctor that PHILIP admits him into the number of beleevers and makes him a member of the Church But the Doctor saith this was without consulting with the Congregation by his owne authority and upon the Eunuch his own testimonie pag. 106. I answer that PHILIP had a speciall command from God for what he did herein and so had Ananias Act. 9.15 touching Saul which is the next Instance which the Doctor brings in this same 106. pag. And albeit the Doctor affirme ' That ANANIAS did not say to SAUL I will consult with the Church to see whither they will admit thee to be a member for thou hast greatly wasted the Church and made havock of the Saints and therefore I will have their approbation and consent and thou shalt give in evidences of thy true Conversion c. And so be received and admitted ' But without all this ado saith the Dr. pag. 107. he baptized Paul and admitteth him into the number of Beleevers and makes him a Member of the Church Yet if the Reader look back into the 102. page of his Book The Dr. there makes an exception from the power which he a little before had affirmed the Presbyters have to admit Members by vertue of Christ his commission upon the profession of their faith and repentance and receiving baptisme without any further Testimony ' Unlesse saith the Dr. they had been formerly known to be open enemies and persecutors of the Church and then they were justly to be suspected till they had given publike evidence by witnesse of their true conversion And gives an instance in Paul who for a time the Disciples feared Acts 9.26.27 till they had better information and proof that he now preached the faith that he had once persecuted and had suffered for it pag. 102. To rehearse all the Scriptures alledged to prove this method of God and practise of the Apostles were needlesse But passing by such as are not so plain and clear for the proof thereof and also omitting what the Doctor hath said touching the Brethren in comparing their practise with the Apostles Because the Dr. is mistaken in stateing the Question and also in his Queries as before I mentioned in the 14 page of this my answer and the Reader may see pag. 98 99. and 100. of the Doctors Book I shall give the Reader the result of all that the Dr. hath written from pag. 100. to the end of his Book touching Gods method and the Apostles practice in gathering of Churches and admitting Members viz. ' First That Christ having given a Commission to his Apostles to teach all Nations and baptize them Matth. 28.19.20 Mark 16 15 16. the Apostles practised accordingly Acts 2.37.38 Acts and so did Philip Acts and Ananias Acts 9.10.18 Secondly That the condition or tearmes which they were to propound unto all Nations and people upon which they were to be admitted into the Church were Faith Repentance and Baptisme Mark 16.15,16 For the commission was delivered to the Apostles that they should admit whosoever beleeved and would be baptized and they that beleeved not and would not be baptized were not to be admitted pag. 102. and pag. 104. The Apostles saith the Dr. propounded no other condition or tearmes for making all and every one Members of the Church but Repentance and Baptisme Acts 2.37.38 Thirdly that the Apostles and all succeeding Ministers of the Gospell should admit whosoever beleeved and were baptized to be Members of the Church and teach them to observe no other things but what Christ commanded them and for which they had his Word and warrant pag. 101. and 102. Matth. 28.19.20 And this saith the Dr. the Apostles did practice without requiring them to take a private covenant or enter into the Church by way of a particular covenant pag. 105. Acts 2.37.38 This being the summe and result of that method and practice which the Dr. conceives should be done in gathering Churches and admitting Members which the Scriptures will warrant and Christ Jesus approve of as his fathers will I shall now take liberty to declare what I know by mine own experience to be the practice of some Churches of God in this City That so both the Dr. and the Reader may judge how near the Saints who walk together in the Fellowship of the Gospell do come in their practice to these Apostolicall rules and practice propounded by the Dr. as Gods method in gathering Churches and admitting Members I say that I know by mine own experience having walked with them That they were thus gathered viz. Some godly and learned men of approved guifts and abilities for the Ministerie being driven out of the Countries where they lived by the persecution of the Prelates came to sojourn in this great City and preached the Word of God both publikely and from house to house and daily in the Temples and in every house they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ and some of them have dwelt in their own hired houses and received all that came in unto them preaching the Kingdome of God and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ Matth. Mark 16.15 Act. 8.4 ●ap 1● 19 20.21.22 Act. 10.20.21 Act. 5.42 Act. Acts 17.1.2,3,4,5 Acts 17.5.11,12 Acts 2.38.40,41,42 And when many sinners were converted by their preaching of the Gospell some of them that beleeved consorted with them and of professors a great many and of the chief women not a few And the condition which those Preachers both publikely and privately propounded to the people unto whom they Preached upon which they were to be admitted into the Church was Faith Repentance and Baptisme and none other And whosoever poor as well as rich bond as well as free servants as well as Masters did make a profession of their Faith in Christ Jesus and would be baptized with water into the Name of the Father Sonne and Holy Spirit were admitted Members of the Church but such as did nor beleeve and would not be baptized they would not admit into Church-communion Act. 16.30,31,32,33 Acts,39 Acts 8.12 Acts 18.8 This hath been the practice of some Churches of God in this City without urging or making any particular covenant with Members upon admittance which I desire may be examined by the Scriptures cited in the Margent and then compared with the Doctors three conclusions from the same Scriptures whereby it may appear to the judicious Reader how near the Churches some of them come to the practice of the Apostles rule and practice of the primitive Churches both in gathering and admitting Members And my humble request to the Doctor is That he will use all meanes that the method of God and practice of the Apostles in gathering of Churches and admitting Members may be conscionably practised by his Brethren of both sides according to the revealed Word and Will of the Father FJNJS