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sense_n call_v church_n visible_a 1,949 5 9.0907 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A38090 Antapologia, or, A full answer to the Apologeticall narration of Mr. Goodwin, Mr. Nye, Mr. Sympson, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Bridge, members of the Assembly of Divines wherein is handled many of the controversies of these times, viz. ... : humbly also submitted to the honourable Houses of Parliament / by Thomas Edwards ... Edwards, Thomas, 1599-1647. 1644 (1644) Wing E223; ESTC R1672 272,405 322

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shall_v have_v lay_v down_o particular_o as_o wherein_o and_o how_o far_o you_o agree_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n so_o also_o wherein_o you_o depart_v from_o they_o namely_o you_o shall_v have_v show_v in_o what_o you_o practise_v more_o than_o they_o do_v and_o wherein_o you_o practise_v short_a of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o thing_n you_o practise_v with_o they_o yet_o how_o you_o differ_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o they_o but_o to_o return_v to_o that_o of_o censure_n reform_a church_n practice_v beside_o admonition_n and_o before_o they_o come_v to_o excommunication_n that_o which_o be_v call_v by_o divine_n abstentio_fw-la à_fw-la sacracaena_fw-la but_o you_o do_v not_o so_o but_o conceal_v this_o but_o brethren_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o practice_v this_o especial_o consider_v how_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n the_o church_n be_v to_o receive_v the_o lord_n supper_n every_o lord_n day_n now_o suppose_v some_o member_n commit_v a_o great_a sin_n on_o the_o saturday_n which_o though_o come_n it_o be_v know_v to_o the_o minister_n or_o elder_n and_o some_o of_o the_o people_n either_o there_o may_v be_v no_o time_n to_o call_v the_o church_n to_o admonish_v the_o party_n or_o if_o there_o be_v for_o admonition_n yet_o not_o time_n sufficient_a for_o the_o party_n to_o testify_v repentance_n and_o yet_o the_o person_n may_v not_o be_v judge_v obstinate_a and_o impenitent_a as_o to_o be_v excommunicate_v but_o the_o person_n offend_v will_v come_v now_o to_o the_o lord_n table_n in_o the_o interim_n what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n and_o further_o the_o reform_a church_n enjoin_v the_o censure_n of_o open_a confession_n of_o sin_n and_o practice_v deposition_n of_o officer_n from_o their_o place_n which_o may_v just_o arise_v upon_o some_o case_n and_o yet_o not_o think_v it_o fit_a to_o proceed_v unto_o excommunication_n as_o yourselves_o practise_v in_o m._n ward_n case_n never_o proceed_v to_o give_v he_o up_o to_o satan_n but_o how_o lame_a and_o defective_a be_v this_o your_o narration_n about_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n only_o relate_v two_o thing_n you_o practise_v in_o common_a with_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o as_o conceal_v other_o thing_n you_o practise_v not_o with_o they_o so_o whole_o pass_v over_o in_o silence_n here_o all_o your_o different_a way_n of_o practise_v from_o all_o church_n in_o the_o way_n of_o ordination_n in_o the_o way_n of_o constitute_a church_n and_o admission_n into_o they_o and_o in_o the_o way_n of_o govern_v by_o the_o vote_n and_o suffrage_n of_o the_o whole_a body_n in_o the_o way_n of_o celebration_n the_o lord_n supper_n receive_v it_o at_o night_n etc._n etc._n in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n with_o many_o other_o particular_n which_o whether_o it_o be_v fair_o do_v i_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n who_o be_v by_o this_o much_o deceive_v think_v upon_o the_o read_n of_o this_o narration_n that_o you_o have_v agree_v in_o all_o thing_n of_o worship_n officer_n censure_n with_o the_o reform_a church_n but_o to_o return_v to_o that_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n which_o you_o insist_v upon_o lay_v down_o your_o judgement_n about_o the_o subject_n of_o that_o censure_n as_o for_o your_o blessing_n god_n you_o never_o exercise_v it_o there_o may_v be_v but_o little_a ground_n for_o such_o a_o blessing_n but_o cause_n rather_o to_o be_v humble_v for_o not_o use_v it_o seasonable_o i_o judge_v have_v you_o practise_v it_o some_o revile_n evil_a speaking_n between_o many_o member_n of_o your_o church_n with_o some_o other_o offence_n may_v have_v be_v prevent_v but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o great_a cause_n to_o set_v out_o yourselves_o by_o the_o non-exercise_n of_o excommunication_n if_o what_o you_o hold_v for_o the_o matter_n of_o it_o be_v consider_v wherein_o i_o suppose_v you_o differ_v from_o all_o orthodox_n reform_a church_n and_o do_v open_a a_o wide_a gap_n to_o much_o licentiousness_n both_o in_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n what_o do_v you_o judge_v be_v it_o not_o to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n for_o no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n then_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n etc._n etc._n what_o if_o man_n practise_v polygamy_n profane_v the_o lord_n day_n by_o use_v it_o as_o they_o do_v any_o other_o day_n what_o if_o they_o do_v hold_v and_o according_o will_v have_v practise_v community_n of_o good_n among_o believer_n what_o if_o they_o maintain_v that_o christian_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v magistrate_n all_o which_o be_v not_o condemn_v in_o all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n especial_o if_o some_o church_n may_v be_v take_v for_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o believe_v by_o your_o manner_n of_o expression_n you_o include_v such_o neither_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n but_o rather_o be_v practise_v upon_o new_a light_n and_o as_o new_a truth_n and_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o explain_v your_o meaning_n what_o you_o mean_v by_o all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o the_o common_a receive_v practice_n of_o christianity_n and_o what_o by_o the_o principle_n of_o christianity_n universal_o acknowledge_v in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n whether_o by_o church_n you_o understand_v the_o church_n only_o of_o your_o own_o communion_n and_o way_n or_o the_o church_n which_o be_v common_o call_v the_o reform_a or_o else_o all_o church_n whatsoever_o that_o be_v so_o call_v as_o beside_o your_o own_o and_o the_o reform_a the_o church_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n antinomian_o and_o such_o like_a and_o i_o have_v reason_n to_o propound_v this_o question_n your_o word_n be_v so_o doubtful_a now_o if_o your_o word_n and_o phrase_n be_v take_v in_o the_o first_o sense_n of_o your_o church_n only_o that_o those_o sin_n and_o no_o other_o be_v to_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n then_o great_a sin_n and_o error_n according_a to_o the_o scripture_n and_o judge_v so_o by_o orthodox_n church_n may_v escape_v excommunication_n and_o on_o the_o contrary_a many_o matter_n which_o according_a to_o scripture_n be_v neither_o sin_n nor_o error_n but_o only_o your_o church_n hold_v they_o so_o may_v have_v that_o dreadful_a sentenee_n pass_v upon_o they_o but_o if_o you_o mean_v it_o in_o the_o large_a sense_n for_o all_o kind_n of_o church_n and_o for_o the_o receive_v principle_n and_o practice_n of_o christianity_n profess_v and_o acknowledge_v in_o all_o the_o church_n then_o more_o sin_n and_o error_n so_o judge_v by_o the_o word_n by_o most_o church_n and_o by_o your_o own_o church_n too_o will_v not_o be_v acknowledge_v for_o such_o in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n and_o so_o shall_v escape_v that_o censure_n but_o if_o you_o shall_v say_v you_o mean_v only_o the_o reformed-churche_n common_o so_o call_v and_o the_o common_a receive_v practice_n profess_v by_o they_o it_o can_v be_v so_o understand_v as_o be_v evident_a by_o your_o own_o expression_n in_o this_o passage_n about_o excommunication_n so_o that_o here_o be_v strange_a unsafe_a rule_n to_o go_v by_o in_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o i_o judge_v it_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o new_a light_n and_o now_o truth_n of_o these_o time_n never_o yet_o give_v by_o any_o learned_a classical_a author_n how_o much_o better_o be_v it_o for_o church_n to_o make_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n such_o sin_n and_o error_n which_o the_o scripture_n have_v make_v so_o and_o those_o sin_n to_o be_v agree_v upon_o by_o common_a consent_n in_o assembly_n and_o synod_n so_o draw_v up_o for_o all_o to_o know_v they_o but_o if_o it_o be_v object_v that_o this_o may_v hinder_v further_a light_n and_o a_o after_o discovery_n i_o answer_v when_o any_o thing_n more_o shall_v come_v to_o be_v find_v out_o this_o need_n be_v no_o hindrance_n unto_o any_o light_n but_o by_o the_o public_a government_n and_o common_a consent_n upon_o good_a ground_n may_v be_v add_v but_o this_o your_o judgement_n about_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n i_o fear_v be_v calculate_v for_o the_o meridian_n of_o pretend_a liberty_n of_o conscience_n now_o this_o position_n of_o hold_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n to_o be_v only_o such_o sin_n and_o error_n as_o be_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n and_o the_o common_a receive_v practice_n of_o christianity_n profess_v in_o all_o church_n and_o no_o other_o to_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o it_o tend_v much_o to_o the_o tolerate_n of_o sect_n and_o heresy_n which_o in_o this_o impure_a age_n be_v by_o many_o man_n and_o by_o too_o many_o of_o the_o church_n way_n so_o studious_o promote_v against_o the_o nature_n of_o reformation_n and_o true_a zeal_n but_o if_o one_o of_o the_o great_a end_n of_o excommunication_n be_v to_o preserve_v other_o from_o
infallible_o and_o necessary_o a_o particular_a church_n to_o exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o one_o particular_a congregation_n yet_o they_o never_o intend_v it_o as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n now_o you_o know_v the_o say_n authoris_fw-la aliud_fw-la agentis_fw-la parva_fw-la est_fw-la auth●…ritas_fw-la but_o show_v we_o where_o ever_o the_o old_a non-conformists'_a as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n hold_v so_o it_o will_v appear_v by_o gerson_n bucerus_n and_o by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o geneva_n amplitudin●…_n and_o holland_n for_o which_o mr_n robinson_n so_o object_n against_o they_o in_o his_o apology_n that_o though_o they_o be_v against_o the_o government_n of_o bishop_n and_o diocesan_n church_n that_o be_v of_o a_o head_n church_n over_o many_o congregation_n unite_v to_o it_o yet_o not_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o such_o a_o city_n consist_v of_o many_o particular_a congregation_n and_o as_o for_o that_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v by_o all_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v several_a elder_n in_o every_o congregation_n it_o be_v deny_v you_o for_o some_o divine_n as_o danaeus_n and_o cartwright_n as_o i_o remember_v hold_v it_o not_o necessary_a for_o every_o small_a congregation_n in_o village_n but_o for_o city_n and_o more_o populous_a place_n to_o which_o the_o lesser_a village_n be_v conjoin_v have_v the_o benefit_n and_o support_v of_o all_o the_o elder_n and_o minister_n in_o the_o exercise_v of_o government_n as_o for_o that_o you_o say_v other_o of_o they_o call_v the_o combination_n of_o church_n ecclesiae_fw-la ortae_fw-la but_o particular_a congregation_n ecclesiae_fw-la primae_fw-la as_o wherein_o first_o the_o power_n and_o privilege_n of_o a_o church_n be_v to_o be_v exercise_v that_o other_o be_v ●…2_n mr_n parker_n who_o in_o his_o politia_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la give_v we_o this_o distinction_n and_o be_v the_o first_o who_o bring_v it_o up_o as_o ever_o i_o read_v of_o who_o differ_v 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poor_a exile_n be_v it_o not_o enough_o to_o have_v say_v when_o it_o please_v god_n to_o bring_v we_o back_o again_o into_o our_o own_o land_n but_o you_o must_v call_v yourselves_o god_n exile_n and_o poor_a exile_n i_o wonder_v you_o term_v not_o yourselves_o poor_a pilgrim_n but_o the_o reason_n why_o you_o name_v yourselves_o so_o here_o and_o in_o this_o apology_n take_v occasion_n so_o often_o to_o speak_v of_o exile_n and_o banishment_n may_v easy_o be_v guest_n at_o namely_o to_o commend_v your_o person_n and_o way_n the_o more_o to_o the_o people_n and_o for_o want_v of_o better_a to_o take_v they_o with_o such_o popular_a argument_n as_o suffer_v a_o grievous_a exile_n thus_o in_o many_o other_o passage_n of_o your_o apology_n you_o bring_v in_o and_o insert_v many_o such_o kind_n of_o phrase_n to_o work_v with_o the_o people_n the_o more_o but_o do_v insinuate_v many_o thing_n against_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n as_o of_o engagement_n public_a interest_n etc._n etc._n but_o let_v i_o a_o little_a examine_v whether_o you_o five_o can_v fit_o be_v style_v god_n poor_a exile_n i_o think_v to_o speak_v proper_o you_o neither_o be_v exile_n nor_o poor_a for_o you_o be_v not_o banish_v nor_o force_v out_o of_o your_o own_o laud_n neither_o by_o be_v bring_v into_o the_o high-commission_n court_n or_o by_o letter_n missive_n and_o attachment_n out_o against_o you_o as_o ever_o i_o hear_v but_o except_v m._n burroughes_n who_o flee_v in_o haste_n as_o be_v in_o danger_n for_o word_n speak_v you_o go_v at_o your_o own_o time_n over_o into_o holland_n with_o all_o convenience_n of_o your_o family_n and_o other_o company_n vocarent_fw-la among_o the_o greek_n fuga_fw-la be_v call_v exilium_fw-la and_o so_o you_o fly_v out_o of_o the_o kingdom_n in_o that_o sense_n may_v be_v call_v exile_n but_o how_o ever_o in_o some_o sense_n