you may call it exile because you did flie out of your owne Country though none persecuted you to shun persecution before it came as foreseeing possibility of danger yet you can in no sence be called poore Exiles for you were rich Exiles who in Holland enjoyed many conveniences and such abundance as to be able some of you to spend 200 or 300. lb. per annum and to doe other expensive acts which for present I forbeare to name And I can produce letters of many conveniencies which you enjoyed there Letters before quoted by me of M. Archers speake so much Poore exiles are such who have no certaine dwelling-place maintenance friends but how they can be called poore Exiles that enioy wives children friends full and liberall maintenance annually liberty of callings with all pleasures and delights as much or rather more then in their owne countrey I see not Suppose some merchants and tradesmen who could not so well nor so much to their advantage follow their callings and drive their trade in their owne countrey should for their better advantage and accomodatons in these kinds goe with their families into another Countrey can these be called Exiles Suppose a Minister who disliking some things here in the present Government to be established or wanting a liberall maintenance or fearing the warre should goe over to Roterdam Hambrough to preach to the company of Merchants there where he shall have better meanes can this Minister be stiled a poore exile Now I leave you and the Readers to make application As for those words Gods bringing you backe againe in these revolutions of the times into your owne land I know God permitted it and ordered it but I well know Satan hastened and furthered it for the dividing of the godly party here and for the obstructing the worke of Reformation and hindering the setling the government of the Church that so in the meane time he might increase his kingdome and bring in a floud of all errours and licentiousnesse upon us and Brethren let me speake sadly to you not out of passion but out of long and serious deliberation it had been good for you and for us that you had continued exiles still and that neither you five nor they of New-England had heard of the revolution of our times and Gods visiting us in mercie till the Church and government had been setled I am confident that things had not then been at that passe now as they are As for that Parenthesis the powring forth of manifold prayers and teares for the prosperitie of the Kingdome in a strange Land I will not gaine-say it onely let me mind you of two passages in your Apologie Our selves had no hopes of ever so much as visiting our own land again in peace and safety to our persons and the other when we had least dependencie on this kingdome or so much as hopes ever to abide therin in peace Now take away faith hope endeavors will much cease this I judge should much hinder your praiers and teares for the prosperitie of the land for my part I had much hope of the kingdom when things were at worst and I exprest it both in preaching and conference to many and some can witnesse what I have said to them of the Arch-bishop of Canterbury and the rest of that faction and of the revolution of the times God was pleased so to support my spirit that I expected and waited as men doe for the light of the morning when that every day God would arise and doe some great worke and change the times and seasons As for your finding the judgement of many of your godly learned brethren in the Ministerie that desired a generall Reformation to differ from yours in some things that was no marvell I wonder you could expect it otherwise being but a few young men of yesterday and going a way by your selves so different from all Reformed Churches But I must tell you you found not onely the judgement of many godly Ministers that desired a generall Reformation but the judgement of them all who were in publike imployment and of any great account to differ from yours not onely in some things but even in your whole Church way how ever that since by your presence and your politick way of working and the strong streame of popular applause running that way some few Ministers uncertaine heady inconstant wanton-witted men are since come off to your way but as for your confidence and open profession that in the things wherein you differed from many of your godly brethren that you professedly judge the Calvinian reformed Churches of the first Reformation from out of Poperie to stand in need of a further Reformation themselves I answer they may doe so and I know no Church yet so perfect but may stand in need of some further Reformation and the Commissioners of the Church of Scotland grant you so much pag. 7. That they are most willing to heare and learne from the word of God what needeth further to be reformed in the Church of Scotland Now whether your Churches and those of new England be so perfect though not of the first Reformation as to stand in no need of a further Reformation in government I much doubt especially considering that letter lately come from New-England written by M. Parker as also a nother Letter from M. Wilson of Boston and a terrible Lette from a reverend godly Minister there whose name I have been entreated to conceale least it might much prejudice him there but for answer I must tell you I doe professedly judge that in your sence in the things excepted against by you the Reformed Churches particularly that of Scotland need not a further Reformation namely to come to your principles of Democracie Independencie Libertinisme and to keepe all those and their children from admission into the visible Church whom you keepe out and to condemne as unlawfull all set formes of prayer composed by Synods and Assemblies though never so holy and heavenly for matter and frame And as to that that it may without prejudice to them or the imputation of Schisme in you be thought that comming new out of Poperie they might not be fully perfect the first day I answer they never thought so neither were they so fully perfect in Church government the first day but the reformed Churches particularly the French-Churches had many Synods Assemblies and Colloquies where points of government and order have been further debated cleared and Canons added and in the Church of Scotland after doctrine was established they were exercised in conferences and Assemblies about matters of Discipline and Government which is the perfection spoken of here by you above twenty yeares Besides considering that the Reformed Churches both in France Scotland and Holland have heretofore been troubled with the maine of your principles and have heard all the Arguments and reasons for them and against their owne way and that both of old
with his being deceived for a time in the businesse of M Wheelwright and Mistris Hutchinson and some of those opinions about Sanctification evidencing Justification and to some other manuscripts and printed things about the Church-way where there are many things of wit and fancie more then of deep judgement The third part of your praise rises so high as 't is hardly to be paralel'd The sinceritie of them of New-England in their way restisi'd before all the world and will be to all generations to come by the greatest undertaking but that of our father Abraham out of his owne Country and his seed after him a transplanting themselves many thousand miles distance and that by sea into a wildernesse c. Certainly some Independents then must write their Chronicle or else their sincerity will not be so testified to all the world neither will they be so famous to all succeeding generations It is well that in this high praise of them who went to New-England there was some exception and that Abraham their father was excepted how ever in the instance you presently give of their undertaking you secretly preferre the men of New-England before Abraham for Abraham went by land and not by sea and not many thousand miles distance nor into a wildernesse But I am not satisfied in the truth of this undertaking for New-England but am of the mind there both have been and are greater undertakings besides Abraham and his seed after him namely that of Moses and Aaron carrying the people out of Egypt and leading them through the wildernesse to Canaan of Nehemiah and Zerubbabel in building of the Temple besides the present undertaking of the Parliament for Reformation in Church-government and worship against the Papists Prelates and Malignants which you had seen when you writ this Apologie was farre greater and is testified before the world and will be to all generations to come farre beyond that of New-England 'T is strange to me you should thus forget your selves to make the undertaking of New-England to be the greatest that ever was in the world but that of Abrahams But thus partiall we see good men are apt to be for their own party and even starke blind in their own cause And as I am no whit satisfied in this third particular of your praise of New-England so nor in the truth of the thing that you affirme they went to New-England for namely meerely to worship God more purely whether to allure them there could be no other invitement For that which was first held out and most spoken of in the beginning of that Plantation in New-England was the hopes of converting the poore Indians There were some Ministers of note and others who dealt first in that businesse and were prime actors in it that propounded that and really intended it as Mr White of Dorchester Mr Humphreys and I am forgetfull if I have not read some things printed to that purpose As for the worshipping God more purely if your words could bare that sense or you understood them of being freed of the Ceremonies and of Episcopall government that was some part of the designe and ayme though not meerely that but if by worshipping God more purely be meant the worshipping God in the Church-way and the Church-government pleaded for in this Apology it was not in the thoughts of them who were the first movers in it or of the Ministers who were sent over in the beginning as is apparent by a Letter of Mr Cottons sent to Mr Skelton a Minister upon his falling into the Church-way after he came over wherein Mr Cotton writes to him that he went from England of another judgement and tells him how this came about namely from them of New-Plymouth who were Mr Robinsons people and further unto many who went over to New-England after the first and second yeare there were other invitements then meerely worshipping God more purely some of them concluding peremptorily this Kingdome would be destroyed and there would be a hiding place as also the great commendations of the Countrey and Land for subsistence many being low in their estates here led many into a fooles paradâ—…ce who finding all things so contrary to the high reports given out and their expectations have had leisure enough to repent since And some of you who to my knowledge intended for New-England yet when you came to understand better what a hard Countrey it was would not be of the number of them whose sincerity should be testified before all the world and unto all generations to come by going to New-England to worship God more purely when to allure you thither there was no other invitement And now after all this large narration of your falling off from the dark part and of your inquiring into the light part and the story of your impartial looking upon the word of Christ and of your consulting with reformed Churches and looking upon the old Non-conformists and observing the Separatists together with the examples of New-England you plainely come in the close of this Section to declare that for which all this was written namely to possesse the Reader of your freedome and un-ingagement notwithstanding all this to take that way or every thing in each way that was truth whereas you would insinuate that other men who differ from you were not so free nor un-engaged But how likely this is and how un-ingaged and free you were I desire the Reader to remember what presumption if not proofes I have already brought to proove the contrary As for those two Parenthesis brought in of the way of New-England namely those improved to a better Edition and greater refinement by all the fore-montioned helps and that all which we looke upon as reformed Churches To the first of these I say 1. It is a high confidence and presumption to judge the wayes and practises of a few in New-England to be better and more refined then of all the reformed Churches in Christendome 2. What ever the Edition and refinement of New-England is they made little use of all the forementioned helps named by you to attaine unto it few of them consulted with reverence the reformed Churches c. But the maine ground of their improvement to this new Edition and great refinement as you terme it was their consultation with them of New-Plymouth as appeares both by Mr Cottons Letter and by other relations To the second I can judge no other reason of inserting it here nor of calling the way of New-England in that first Parenthesis a better Edition and greater refinement then of any of the reformed Churches but onely that we may understand in what sense you took that part of the Covenant to be brought to agreement with the best reformed Churches that you meant and accounted New-England the best reformed Churches and so satisfie your consciences in taking that branch of the Covenant whereas we looke upon the reformed Churches those of France Scotland Holland c. who are
should have laid downe particularly as wherein and how farre you agreed with the Reformed Churches so also wherein you departed from them namely you should have shewed in what you practised more then they doe and wherein you practise short of them and in the things you practised with them yet how you differ'd in the manner of them but to returne to that of censures Reformed Churches practise besides admonition and before they come to excommunication that which is called by Divines Abstentio à sacracaena but you doe not so but conceale this but brethren why should you not practise this especially considering how according to your principles the Church is to receive the Lords Supper every Lords day Now suppose some members commit a great sinne on the Saturday which though comming it be known to the Ministers or Elders and some of the people either there may be no time to call the Church to admonish the parties or if there be for admonition yet not time sufficient for the parties to testifie Repentance and yet the persons may not be judged obstinate and impenitent as to be excommunicated but the persons offending will come now to the Lords table in the interim what will you doe in this case And further the Reformed Churches enjoyne the censure of open confession of sinnes and practise deposition of officers from their places which may justly arise upon some cases and yet not thinke it fit to proceed unto excommunication as your selves practised in M. Wards case never proceeding to give him up to Satan but how lame and defective is this your Narration about the governement of the Church onely relating two things you practised in common with the Reformed Churches and as concealing other things you practised not with them so wholly passing over in silence here all your different way of practising from all Churches in the way of ordination in the way of constituting Churches and admission into them and in the way of governing by the votes and suffrages of the whole bodie in the way of celebration the Lords Supper receiving it at night c. in the Sacrament of Baptisme with many other particulars which whether it be fairly done I appeale to the Reader who is by this much deceived thinking upon the reading of this Narration that you had agreed in all things of Worship Officers Censures with the Reformed Churches But to returne to that censure of Excommunication which you insist upon laying downe your judgement about the subject of that censure As for your blessing God you never exercised it There may be but little ground for such a blessing but cause rather to be humbled for not using it seasonably I judge had you practised it some revilings evill speakings between many members of your Churches with some other offences might have been prevented But there is no such great cause to set out your selves by the non-exercise of Excommunication if what you hold for the matter of it be considered wherein I suppose you differ from all Orthodox Reformed Churches and doe open a wide gappe to much licentiousnesse both in doctrine and practise What doe you judge Is it not to be put in Execution for no other kind of sinnes then may evidently be presumed to be perpetrated against the parties knowne light c. What if men practise Polygamie prophane the Lords day by using it as they doe any other daie what if they doe hold and accordingly will have practised communitie of goods amongst beleevers what if they maintaine that Christians ought not to be Magistrates all which are not condemned in all the Churches of Christ especially if some Churches may be taken for Churches of Christ and we have reason to beleeve by your manner of expressions you include such neither are perpetrated against the parties knowne light but rather are practised upon new light and as new truthes and let me intreate you in your Replie to explain your meaning what you meane by all the Churches of Christ and by the common received practises of Christianitie and what by the principles of Christianitie universally acknowledged in all the rest of the Churches whether by Churches you understand the Churches onely of your owne communion and waie or the Churches which are commonly called the Reformed Or else all Churches whatsoever that are so called as besides your owne and the Reformed the Churches of the Anabaptists Antinomians and such like And I have reason to propound this question your words being so doubtfull Now if your words and phrases be taken in the first sence of your Churches only that those sinnes and no other are to be the subject of Excommunication then great sins and errours according to the Scripture and judged so by Orthodox Churches may escape Excommunication and on the contrarie many matters which according to Scripture are neither sinnes nor errours but only your Churches hold them so may have that dreadfull sentenee passe upon them but if you meane it in the largest sence for all kind of Churches and for the received principles and practises of Christianitie professed and acknowledged in all the Churches then more sinnes and errours so judged by the word by most Churches and by your owne Churches too will not be acknowledged for such in all the rest of the Churches and so shall escape that censure But if you should say you meane onely the Reformed-churches commonly so called and the common received practises professed by them it cannot be so understood as is evident by your own expressions in this passage about Excommunication So that here are strange unsafe rules to goe by in the censure of Excommunication and I judge it is a part of the new light and now truths of these times never yet given by any learned Classicall Authour How much better were it for Churches to make the subject of Excommunication such sins and errours which the Scripture hath made so and those sinnes to be agreed upon by common consent in Assemblies and Synods so drawne up for all to know them But if it be objected that this may hinder further light and an after discoverie I answer when any thing more shall come to be found out this need be no hinderance unto any light but by the publike Government and common consent upon good grounds may be added But this your judgement about the censure of Excommunication I feare is calculated for the Meridian of pretended liberty of conscience Now this position of holding the subject of Excommunication to be onely such sins and errours as are against the parties knowne light and the common received practises of Christianity professed in all Churches and no other to be the subject of it tends much to the tolerating of Sects and Heresies which in this impure age is by many men and by too many of the Church way so studiously promoted against the nature of Reformation and true zeale But if one of the great ends of Excommunication be to preserve others from
infallibly and necessarily a particular Church to exceed the limits of one particular Congregation yet they never intended it as against the reformed Churches Now you know the saying Authoris aliud agentis parva est authâ—…ritas But shew us where ever the old non-conformists as against the reformed Churches held so It will appeare by Gerson Bucerus and by the practise of the reformed Churches in Geneva and Holland for which Mr Robinson so objects against them in his Apologie that though they were against the government of Bishops and Diocesan Churches that is of a head Church over many Congregations united to it yet not of a particular Church of such a City consisting of many particular Congregations And as for that you take for granted by all that there should be severall Elders in every Congregation it is denied you For some Divines as Danaeus and Cartwright as I remember hold it not necessary for every small Congregation in villages but for Cities and more populous places to which the lesser villages being conjoyned have the benefit and support of all the Elders and Ministers in the exercising of government As for that you say Others of them calling the combination of Churches Ecclesiae ortae but particular Congregations Ecclesiae primae as wherein firstly the power and priviledge of a Church is to be exercised that others was Mr Parker who in his Politia Ecclesiastica gives us this distinction and was the first who brought it up as ever I read of who differing from Mr Baynes and other non-conformists and most Divines of the reformed Churches in the subject of the power of the keyes giving it to the body of the Church agreeing therein too much with you no wonder he called particular Congregations Ecclesiae primae But as he was mistaken in the first receptacle and subject of the power of the keyes so he might be in his distinction of Ecclesiae primae and ortae For the first Churches namely that of Ierusalem Rome Ephesus with others were not particular Congregations but Churches consisting of many Congregations severall meeting places some preaching in one place and others in other places but governed by the Elders in common which City Churches were the first Churches still first planted by the Apostles and particular Congregations in villages were Ecclesiae ortae the City Churches in this sence being the mothers and the particular Congregations rather the daughters the full proofe and demonstration whereof I referre to a tractate I intend about the nature of the visible Church But by what I have answered upon this head the Reader may observe there is not all granted which you tooke for granted from the Reformed Churches and the Non-conformists and what is yeelded slowes from another spring and is upon another ground writing against Diocesan Bishops quite another controversie but otherwise even when Non-conformists have come to write against the separation and upon the nature of a visible Church as Mr Ball a they hold the contrary And for learned men of other Churches even when they writ against Episcopacie yet they were farre from holding that a particular visible Church was only a particular Congregation as Gersom Bucerus in his answer to D â— Downham A particular Church is any companie of beleevers conjoyned in the observation of holy ordinances and united to one Presbyterie keeping their meetings in one or more places For the number of Parishes in which they meet is a thing accidentall being nothing at all to the essence of a particular Church And even the Non-conformists you speake of as it appeares by the wary expressions your selves use of them namely infallibly and necessarily doe even give the cause For that is as you imply the Non-conformists in their answers could not denie but probably the number of beleevers were so numerous as to exceed the limits of one particular Congregation in those first timâ—…s though not infallibly and rationally though not necessarily Now in points of externall order and government which depend upon the story and circumstances of time and place how many things are there practised but of presumption though not of certainty and though they cannot be infallibly and necessarily proved so as to stop all mouthes and all that the wit of man can possibly finde out yet if the things asserted can be but probably proved upon better reasons then the contrary we may encline to that as to the safer part How many practises and tenents have you in your Church-way that cannot be infallibly and necessarily proved but stronger answers may be and are given to the reasons you bring for them then any the Non-conformists could give to that instance of the Church of Ierusalem and yet you hold to your principles for all that and it is a rule hath been pleaded by some of you that in things of that nature where the Scripture is not expresse but holds them out most probably though not infallibly and necessarily yet we ought to encline to that As for Mr Baynes answer though directed against Diocesan Bishops and Diocesan Churches to that instance of the Church of Ierusalem it is no whit satisfactorie nor concluding to any man who is of another judgement as the Reader may reade in the 15. and 16. page of the Dioces Tryall To the 3d particular under the first head namely what you allow and grant about a Church and the Government that you could not but imagine that the first Churches planted by the Apostles were ordinarily of no more in one Citie at the first then might make up one entire Congregation ruled by their owne Elders that also preached to them and that you could not but judge it a safe and an allowed way to retaine the government of your severall Congregations for matter of discipline within themselves to be exercised by their owne Elders c. In way of answer I must first complaine of your old fault the slippery and uncertaine expressions used in the relation of what you owne and allow about a Church in those phrases the first Churches ordinarily and at first I demand the reason of you why you put in ordinarily and at first was it not because you fore-saw the Church of Ierusalem and some few others recorded in the New Testament though not in the first Chapter of the Acts and at the beginning yet would at last by the 8. of the Acts and Acts 21. amount to more then could meet in one Congregation and therefore you exprest it so Is this faire dealing or what other reason can you give for using such doubtfull expressions the question is not betweene you and us whether all the Churches and most of the Churches or whether at first and in the beginning of them they consisted of no more in one City then to make up one Congregation but whether the Scriptures in the Acts of the Apostles and Epistles be it first or last sooner or later gives any patterne or example of
true Churches namely your seeing that if you had accounted our Churches no true Churches that by the same reason the Churches abroad in Scotland Holland c. yet for their mixture must in like manner be judged no Churches also I answer 't is no concluding Argument M. Robinson who was quick-sighted and lived in Holland long and seeing their mixture yet acknowledges those Churches true but denies ours to be true upon other grounds besides the mixture and 't is evident your reason is insufficient for if your description of a visible Church were only upon difference in the point of mixture and your grounds of separation only upon mixt communion then your Reason had some weight in it but you know your exceptions were many against our Churches which lay not against the Reformed Churches but it is strange to me if you were so good at consequences that you saw and could not but see when there was no necessitie of seeing you could not see the necessarie consequences of your principles about a Church and Ministerie nay not see even your contradictions For let a man but take your owne Positions and Assertions concerning a true visible Church and the true calling of Ministers and lay together your quarrelling with us and leaving us upon those grounds because we have no such Churches and Ministers and yeâ—… to affirme that multitudes of our Parochiall Churches are true Churches And certainly however you who are Schollars might be such good Logicians to make such distinctions to salve all as you conceited yet your people could not but they from your principles and positions about Church Ministerie Worship and Government have judged us no true Churches nor true Ministers but have wondred at this sincere profession of yours before God and the world concerning our Churches and Ministers saying they understood you otherwise and they were much deceived if you held not otherwise at first though now you expresse your selves after this manner And I can hardly beleeve had you made alwaies and frequently such professions of our Churches and Ministers and of keeping communion with them as the Churches of Christ that ever so many had fallen off to your way But thus 't is in all the way of errours men by sits will expresse things as other men do who are Orthodox but yet in a sence of their own to avoid exceptions and that they may be thought to hold as others do therby the more to draw and work some men off to their way when yet in the common sense and understanding of the points they hold otherwise As the Socinians say they hold Christ God and call him so but in a sence of their own and yet denie it in the Orthodox sense So Pelagians and Arminians will extoll the grace of God and that a man can doe nothing without it and yet in that sence wherein the controversie is they set up free-will above the grace of God And so Antinomians will say they doe not denie the law of God and yet in the sense controverted are flat against it And so the Papists will say they hold and looke to be saved by Christ as well as any Protestant though it 's well knowne there is a great difference betweene them in the point of Justification So you and many of your way in a sense of your owne give us good words and say we have true Churches and true Ministerie and yet in the sense of the controversie you teach flat contrary as doth appeare both by printed Tractâ—…tes and by manuscripts and many practises As to that Profession in this Section That in the times when the Churches of England were most either actually overspread with defilements or in the greatest danger therof that we both did and would bold a communion with them as the Churches of Christ I answer what doe I heare words when I see deeds so contrary How can I beleeve this profession that ye would hold communion with the Churches of England as the Churches of Christ under their greatest defilements when as you have never held communion with any of them in the time of their greatest reformation and puritie In this three yeares last since your comming over wherein we have been so free from pollution in worship and since that in so many Churches in London there hath bin the totall laying aside of prescribed formes of prayer and that great care to keepe away both ignorant and prophane persons Which of you five have received the Lords Supper in any of these true Churches and bodies of Christ I never could learne that any of you five nor any of the members of your Churches have communicated with us I can tell you of the adding to your Church Assemblies great numbers since and of your receiving the Lords Supper at night in private houses and how some of you who have not Churches here in London goe to separated Churches to partake in the Lords Supper But Brethren why doe you deale thus and write thus to make men beleeve as if you held great communion with our Churches now who would have held it with them in such bad times I desire you to speake plaine English and not to speake after this manner as you doe too often in this Apologie and to interpret to us in your Reply to this Answer what you meane by both Did and Would hold communion with the Churches of England as the Churches of Christ I know no communion you did hold or doe with us now though so reformed And if you do and will what means that wall of partition between us your new constituted Churches As for thâ—…â—…aring of Sermons sometimes in our Churches and preachiâ—…g in our Congregations I doubt whether you hold that a keeping communion with our Churches and Ministers but rather preach as gifted men and heare ours as gifted men and how ever if M. Robinson and some of your way may be beleeved they hold hearing of the Word no Act of Communion nor no proper nor peculiar thing of the Church And that you are of the same judgement I have great reason both from your principles and practise to thinke so As for that reall testimonie besides your profession That some of us after we actually were in this way of communion baptized our children in Parishionall Congregations whereby you would inferre you held a communion with our Congations as the Churches of Christ I answer this is no reall testimony thereof because it cannot be understood but in the sense before opened of Churches and Ministery And besides if Mr Sympson were one of this Some who baptized his children in Parishionall Congregations 't is so inconsistent with what he writ in the Letter before quoted of the Church and baptisme that I know not how to reconcile these together And the truth is many of your practises are oft times so in-coherent with some of your principles of Church-fellowship as for instance Pastors are necessary Officers in your Churches and yet according
and vigour are sensibly increased the Lord be praised And besides these letters the thing it selfe speakes for whereas in England he was not able to preach nor had not hardly three times in three yeares after he came into Holland he was Pastor of the Church at Arnheim and preached constantly and had that strength to beget a sonne whereas he being married many yeares in England never had any child And not only from him but from others also there have been many letters sent to commend the places where you lost your fellow labourers to be so healthfull and pleasant as to resemble them to Bury in Suffolke and Hart ford As for that high praise of those two worthy Ministers as precious men as this earth beares any I thinke it becomes you not they being yours and of your way and cannot be interpreted by the understanding Reader but that you take occasion here as in all other places of your Apologeticall Narration to magnifie and cry up your own party the more to make people to be in love with your way which had as precious men as this earth beares any but I judge it is too high and hyperbolicall for though I dearely loved the men and doe acknowledge they were precious and beleeve they are gone as that great Divine said in his sicknesse he was going where Luther and Zuinglius doe well agree yet I must needs correct that phrase as this earth beares any For I am of opinion that both in learning and piety they were inferiour to some not only in the earth which is wide and spatious containing Churches and Ministers more pretious then you know of but in this earth of England and Scotland and your Encomium of them if you remember what you writ before of some pretious men alive now in New-England as ever this Kingdome bred and granting that New-England is the earth doth amount to this that these two Ministers Mr Archer and Mr Harris were as pretious men as ever were in England which you must pardon me if I doubt it for I beleeve Whitakers Reynolds Baynes Greeneham Dod Brightman with many more were more pretious As for that other instance Your selves comming hardly off that service with your healths yea lives I have not heard of any great sicknesses any of you five had there excepting Mr Bridge who came hardly off with his health Some of you indeed had Agues there which you might have had in England in Suffolk or in Oxfordshire and for Mr Bridges sicknesse I judge it was as well occasioned and strengthened upon the unhappy differences and bitter divisions between him and Mr Simpson and Mr Ward and their Churches and the wicked reports raised upon him which discontented and troubled his spirit as by the distemper of the place or change of the aire and for others of you how fat and well liking you came backe into England and how all of you returned well clad and shining beyond most of us who lived alwaies in England many can witnesse and have spoken of it all which were no great signes either of the many other miseries the companions of your banishment nor of the comming off so hardly with your healths and lives When it pleased God to bring us his poore Exiles backe againe in these revolutions of the times as also of the condition of this Kingdome into our own Land the powring forth of manifold prayers and teares for the prosperitie whereof had been no small part of that publike worship we offered up to God in a strange Land we found the judgement of many of our godly learned bretheren in the Ministerie that desired a generall Reformation to differ from ours in some things wherein we doe professedly judge the Calvinian Reformed Churches of the first Reformation from out of Poperie to stand in need of a further Reformation themselves And it may without prejudice to them or the imputation of schisme in us from them be thought that they comming new out of Popery as well as England and the founders of that Reformation not having Apostolique infallibilitie might not be fully perfect the first day yea and it may hopefully be conceived that God in his secret yet wise and sacred dispensation had left England more unreformed as touching the outward forme both of worship and Church-government then the neighbour Churches were having yet powerfully continued a constant conflict and contention for a further Reformation for these foure score yeares during which time he had likewise in stead thereof blessed them with the spirituall light and that encreasing of the power of Religion in the practique part of it shining brighter and clearer then in the neighbour Churches as having in his infinite mercie on purpose reserved and provided some better thing for this Nation when it should come to be reformed that the other Churches might not be made perfect without it as the Apostle speaks Having Apologized for your selves and way in your principles opinions practises and carriage towards all sorts both before your exile and in your exile here in this section you come to Apologize for your selves and for what you have done since your comming back into England both before the Assemblie and since the Assemblie untill the time of putting forth this present Apologeticall Narration which beginning in this section is continued by you in the following sections to the 30th page But brethren why doe you in the beginning of this part of your Apologie give your selves that name of Gods poore Exiles was it not enough to have said when it pleased God to bring us backe againe into our owne Land but you must call your selves Gods Exiles and poore Exiles I wonder you tearmed not your selves poore pilgrims But the reason why you name your selves so here and in this Apologie take occasion so often to speake of exile and banishment may easily be guest at namely to commend your persons and way the more to the people and for want of better to take them with such popular arguments as suffering a grievous exile Thus in many other passages of your Apologie you bring in and insert many such kind of phrases to worke with the people the more but doe insinuate many things against the Presbyteriall way as of engagements publike interest c. But let me a little examine whether you five can fitly be stiled Gods poore Exiles I thinke to speake properly you neither were Exiles nor poore for you were not banished nor forced out of your owne Laud neither by being brought into the High-Commission Court or by Letters missive and Attachments out against you as ever I heard but excepting M. Burroughes who fled in haste as being in dangers for words spoken you went at your own times over into Holland with all conveniences of your Families and other companie Among the Greekes Fuga was called exilium and so you flying out of the kingdome in that sense may be cal'd exiles but how ever in some sense