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scripture_n church_n ground_n pillar_n 2,625 5 10.3132 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A72176 A dialogue bewteene a papist and Protestant applied to the capacity of the vnlearned. Made by G. Gifford, preacher in the towne of Maldon. Seene and allowed according to the order appointed. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1599 (1599) STC 11849.5; ESTC S125231 92,498 190

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the_o people_n pa._n the_o high_a priest_n and_o other_o priest_n and_o levite_n which_o god_n appoint_v to_o have_v that_o office_n pro._n do_v the_o high_a priest_n which_o succeed_v aaron_n depart_v away_o from_o the_o truth_n and_o seduce_v the_o people_n at_o any_o time_n and_o likewise_o the_o other_o priest_n and_o levite_n pa._n what_o though_o they_o do_v they_o cruc_fw-fr ify_v christ_n yet_o it_o follow_v not_o that_o the_o pope_n &_o his_o clergy_n can_v err_v because_o christ_n promise_v to_o be_v with_o they_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n pro._n i_o will_v come_v to_o that_o promise_n afterward_o but_o tell_v i_o how_o do_v the_o church_n in_o the_o mean_a time_n when_o the_o high_a priest_n and_o ruler_n teach_v contrary_a to_o the_o truth_n what_o be_v they_o to_o lean_v unto_o now_o where_o be_v the_o church_n pa._n it_o be_v in_o christ_n and_o those_o which_o believe_v in_o he_o these_o be_v the_o church_n and_o he_o that_o join_v himself_o to_o these_o do_v right_a and_o have_v the_o true_a faith_n pro._n the_o high_a priest_n and_o ruler_n in_o the_o church_n can_v fetch_v their_o authority_n and_o succession_n from_o aaron_n which_o be_v many_o hundred_o year_n when_o christ_n teach_v against_o these_o and_o they_o against_o he_o allege_v that_o they_o be_v moses_n desciple_n 21._o mat._n 21._o they_o do_v know_v god_n speak_v to_o moses_n as_o for_o he_o they_o do_v not_o know_v whence_o he_o be_v 9_o john_n 9_o they_o be_v the_o church_n and_o have_v authority_n they_o demand_v of_o he_o by_o what_o authority_n he_o do_v those_o thing_n and_o who_o give_v he_o that_o authority_n they_o say_v he_o seduce_v the_o people_n and_o none_o follow_v he_o but_o the_o common_a people_n which_o know_v not_o the_o law_n 15._o mat._n 15._o which_o be_v accurse_v they_o accuse_v he_o that_o he_o break_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o elder_n he_o break_v the_o sabbath_n and_o such_o like_a how_o do_v the_o people_n know_v who_o have_v the_o truth_n he_o or_o they_o pa._n they_o may_v know_v by_o the_o miracle_n which_o he_o wrought_v when_o he_o cast_v forth_o devil_n and_o heal_v disease_n pro._n they_o say_v he_o do_v it_o by_o the_o power_n of_o beelzebub_n the_o prince_n of_o the_o devil_n 10._o john_n 10._o and_o so_o blind_v themselves_o and_o all_o other_o who_o god_n do_v not_o teach_v by_o his_o holy_a spirit_n and_o therefore_o he_o say_v unto_o they_o 8._o john_n 8._o why_o do_v not_o you_o hear_v my_o voice_n because_o you_o be_v not_o of_o my_o sheep_n also_o in_o another_o place_n those_o that_o be_v of_o god_n hear_v the_o word_n of_o god_n you_o therefore_o hear_v they_o not_o because_o you_o be_v not_o of_o god_n and_o whereas_o you_o speak_v of_o miracle_n which_o he_o wrought_v 10._o john_n 10._o how_o do_v the_o people_n know_v that_o john_n baptist_n be_v of_o god_n see_v he_o wrought_v no_o miracle_n there_o can_v be_v nothing_o more_o plain_a than_o this_o that_o the_o people_n do_v not_o stay_v their_o faith_n upon_o the_o succession_n of_o the_o priest_n nor_o upon_o the_o antiquity_n of_o tradition_n in_o the_o church_n ordain_v by_o the_o father_n nor_o upon_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o clergy_n or_o any_o outward_a thing_n for_o than_o they_o shall_v have_v refuse_v christ_n 6._o john_n 6._o but_o they_o be_v give_v unto_o he_o of_o his_o father_n and_o teach_v by_o he_o and_o therefore_o hear_v his_o voice_n and_o believe_v in_o he_o bless_a be_v thou_o simon_n 10._o john_n 10._o flesh_n and_o blood_n reveal_v not_o this_o unto_o thou_o 16._o mat._n 16._o but_o my_o father_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n even_o after_o this_o manner_n do_v the_o romish_a pharisy_n deal_v now_o against_o the_o gospel_n &_o the_o true_a believer_n we_o be_v the_o church_n we_o be_v the_o successor_n of_o peter_n you_o must_v be_v judge_v by_o we_o your_o doctrine_n be_v new_a you_o break_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o elder_n you_o be_v seducer_n and_o heretic_n but_o when_o you_o have_v say_v all_o that_o you_o can_v we_o stand_v still_o upon_o the_o rock_n of_o god_n truth_n which_o flesh_n and_o blood_n have_v not_o reveal_v unto_o we_o but_o the_o father_n by_o his_o spirit_n pa._n here_o be_v much_o a_o do_v and_o yet_o nothing_o to_o the_o purpose_n you_o make_v a_o comparison_n between_o our_o church_n and_o the_o church_n before_o christ_n and_o because_o the_o people_n than_o do_v not_o stay_v upon_o the_o ruler_n of_o the_o church_n therefore_o they_o must_v not_o now_o how_o follow_v this_o do_v you_o not_o know_v that_o there_o be_v great_a difference_n christ_n make_v promise_v that_o he_o will_v be_v with_o our_o church_n unto_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n 28._o matth._n 28._o and_o therefore_o it_o can_v not_o err_v now_o because_o the_o church_n can_v err_v all_o those_o must_v needs_o be_v heretic_n which_o depart_v from_o it_o pro._n there_o be_v great_a difference_n between_o our_o church_n say_v you_o and_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n be_v the_o great_a difference_n in_o this_o that_o you_o be_v the_o great_a pharisy_n no_o say_v you_o our_o church_n can_v not_o err_v because_o christ_n have_v promise_v to_o be_v with_o it_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o word_n i_o marvel_v much_o in_o what_o scripture_n a_o man_n shall_v find_v that_o same_o promise_n where_o christ_n say_v i_o will_v be_v with_o my_o holy_a vicar_n the_o pope_n to_o the_o world_n end_n and_o he_o shall_v never_o err_v i_o suppose_v a_o man_n shall_v find_v it_o either_o in_o legenda_fw-la aurea_fw-la or_o in_o some_o such_o canonical_a scripture_n i_o know_v you_o will_v say_v it_o be_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o christ_n do_v promise_v his_o apostle_n that_o he_o will_v send_v they_o the_o comforter_n 16._o john_n 16._o and_o that_o he_o will_v be_v with_o they_o unto_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n you_o reason_v thus_o christ_n promise_v to_o be_v with_o the_o church_n therefore_o with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n your_o conclusion_n be_v very_o nimble_a and_o come_v skip_v in_o before_o it_o be_v call_v but_o it_o must_v be_v send_v away_o like_o a_o skipiacke_n and_o be_v teach_v better_a manner_n be_v there_o also_o as_o you_o say_v so_o great_a difference_n that_o the_o church_n before_o christ_n have_v no_o such_o promise_n be_v the_o true_a church_n ever_o without_o the_o spirit_n of_o god_n have_v they_o not_o promise_v that_o way_n what_o say_v god_n by_o the_o prophet_n .132_o psal_n .132_o or_o what_o mean_v this_o i_o have_v choose_v zion_n here_o will_v i_o rest_v here_o shall_v be_v my_o habitation_n for_o ever_o 49._o isay_n 49._o and_o likewise_o when_o the_o prophet_n isay_n say_v but_o zion_n say_v god_n have_v forsake_v i_o and_o the_o lord_n have_v forget_v i_o what_o do_v the_o lord_n answer_v can_v a_o mother_n forget_v her_o child_n &_o not_o pity_v the_o son_n of_o her_o womb_n though_o these_o shall_v forget_v yet_o will_v not_o i_o forget_v thou_o behold_v i_o have_v grave_v thou_o upon_o my_o hand_n and_o thy_o wall_n be_v ever_o in_o my_o sight_n be_v these_o no_o such_o promise_n as_o you_o have_v you_o see_v for_o all_o these_o the_o builder_n refuse_v the_o stone_n 118._o psal_n 118._o which_o be_v make_v the_o chief_a corner_n stone_n the_o ruler_n in_o the_o church_n and_o such_o as_o succeed_v the_o holy_a priest_n of_o god_n fall_v away_o nevertheless_o god_n preserve_v his_o church_n so_o the_o pope_n his_o cardinal_n his_o bishop_n and_o priest_n become_v &_o be_v very_a hell_n hound_n &_o yet_o god_n do_v preserve_v his_o little_a flock_n they_o shall_v be_v in_o a_o most_o miserable_a case_n if_o they_o have_v none_o other_o guide_n but_o that_o horn_a beast_n of_o rome_n the_o church_n that_o be_v the_o elect_a can_v err_v to_o destruction_n but_o the_o pope_n be_v a_o captain_n of_o heretic_n pa._n this_o be_v your_o spiteful_a spirit_n by_o which_o you_o do_v blaspheme_v but_o the_o holy_a father_n be_v never_o the_o worse_o for_o your_o rail_n it_o be_v all_o the_o reason_n you_o have_v against_o he_o pro._n as_o great_a rail_n and_o blasphemy_n as_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v call_v the_o devil_n a_o dragon_n for_o saint_n john_n do_v call_v the_o pope_n therion_n which_o be_v a_o fierce_a and_o savage_a beast_n but_o let_v we_o come_v to_o the_o matter_n again_o when_o you_o charge_v we_o with_o new_a doctrine_n and_o make_v the_o cause_n to_o be_v this_o that_o we_o depart_v from_o that_o doctrine_n which_o your_o church_n have_v believe_v now_o certain_a hundred_o year_n against_o which_o we_o allege_v the_o eternal_a word_n of_o god_n than_o you_o shift_v we_o off_o with_o this_o that_o we_o can_v understand_v the_o word_n unless_o we_o receive_v the_o
meaning_n thereof_o from_o your_o church_n and_o although_o we_o have_v the_o most_o clear_a testimony_n of_o the_o scripture_n against_o you_o yet_o you_o set_v light_a thereby_o and_o all_o because_o your_o church_n can_v err_v and_o you_o expound_v they_o otherwise_o therefore_o there_o be_v by_o your_o doctrine_n no_o rule_n leave_v for_o a_o man_n to_o build_v his_o faith_n upon_o but_o the_o exposition_n of_o the_o governor_n in_o the_o church_n answer_v i_o direct_o unto_o this_o be_v there_o not_o false_a prophet_n in_o old_a time_n among_o the_o people_n of_o the_o jew_n pa._n the_o scripture_n do_v show_v that_o there_o be_v sometime_o a_o great_a number_n at_o once_o and_o the_o church_n of_o god_n do_v ever_o condemn_v they_o pro._n but_o tell_v i_o how_o do_v the_o people_n know_v who_o be_v the_o true_a prophet_n and_o who_o be_v the_o false_a the_o one_o side_n come_v and_o they_o say_v thus_o say_v the_o lord_n no_o say_v the_o other_o side_n that_o be_v false_a thus_o say_v the_o lord_n quite_o contrary_a to_o the_o other_o and_o not_o only_o at_o some_o time_n a_o multitude_n of_o false_a prophet_n against_o one_o true_a servant_n of_o god_n but_o also_o the_o high_a priest_n and_o other_o priest_n and_o governor_n in_o the_o church_n take_v part_n with_o they_o against_o the_o true_a prophet_n where_o be_v then_o your_o golden_a rule_n which_o you_o will_v have_v the_o common_a sort_n to_o measure_v their_o faith_n by_o i_o believe_v as_o the_o church_n believe_v i_o can_v judge_v i_o must_v not_o meddle_v with_o the_o meaning_n of_o the_o scripture_n pa._n prove_v this_o which_o you_o have_v say_v it_o be_v a_o easy_a matter_n to_o affirm_v and_o you_o be_v ready_a to_o do_v that_o but_o your_o proof_n come_v slow_o can_v you_o show_v that_o the_o high_a priest_n and_o governor_n in_o the_o temple_n do_v join_v with_o the_o false_a prophet_n against_o the_o true_a prophet_n pro._n they_o come_v a_o little_a fast_o than_o you_o will_v glad_o have_v they_o or_o else_o you_o will_v not_o be_v so_o calm_a if_o there_o be_v but_o a_o little_a matter_n of_o colour_n against_o we_o for_o want_v of_o proof_n you_o will_v set_v up_o your_o bristle_n by_o and_o by_o and_o you_o will_v crow_v but_o when_o the_o matter_n bring_v out_o do_v choke_v you_o than_o you_o say_v there_o be_v nothing_o bring_v you_o bid_v i_o prove_v that_o when_o there_o be_v false_a prophet_n and_o that_o sundry_a against_o one_o they_o have_v the_o priest_n and_o ruler_n of_o the_o church_n on_o their_o side_n read_v jeremias_n the_o prophet_n you_o shall_v find_v the_o false_a prophet_n against_o he_o and_o the_o priest_n also_o and_o even_o as_o you_o say_v against_o luther_n and_o other_o which_o embrace_v the_o holy_a gospel_n they_o be_v heretic_n the_o pope_n can_v err_v so_o say_v they_o for_o themselves_o against_o jeremias_n 18._o jere._n 18._o come_v let_v we_o imagine_v some_o devise_n against_o he_o for_o the_o law_n shall_v not_o perish_v from_o the_o priest_n nor_o the_o counsel_n from_o the_o wise_a nor_o the_o word_n from_o the_o prophet_n be_v the_o godly_a people_n now_o which_o forsake_v the_o priest_n 1._o jere._n 1._o prince_n and_o prophet_n and_o give_v ear_n to_o jeremias_n apostat_n do_v not_o the_o lord_n tell_v he_o at_o the_o first_o when_o he_o send_v he_o that_o he_o shall_v have_v the_o people_n the_o priest_n and_o prince_n against_o he_o also_o you_o may_v see_v it_o very_o full_o and_o plain_o express_v 20._o jere._n 20._o that_o pashur_n the_o priest_n which_o be_v appoint_v chief_a in_o the_o house_n of_o god_n do_v smite_v jeremias_n and_o put_v he_o in_o the_o stock_n when_o he_o hear_v he_o prophesy_v here_o be_v a_o right_a pope_n &_o a_o stout_a bishop_n that_o dare_v set_v god_n prophet_n in_o the_o stock_n this_o thing_n be_v set_v forth_o in_o sundry_a place_n of_o the_o prophet_n how_o the_o priest_n &_o the_o false_a prophet_n be_v link_v together_o against_o the_o true_a messenger_n of_o the_o lord_n for_o you_o may_v see_v how_o the_o priest_n and_o prophet_n and_o people_n lie_v hold_v on_o jeremias_n 26._o jere._n 26._o and_o will_v have_v put_v he_o to_o death_n for_o the_o priest_n &_o prophet_n accuse_v jeremias_n before_o the_o prince_n that_o he_o be_v worthy_a of_o death_n 22._o eze._n 22._o the_o prophet_n ezechiel_n also_o complain_v grievous_o of_o the_o priest_n and_o the_o prophet_n also_o long_o before_o the_o time_n of_o jeremias_n &_o ezechiel_n the_o lord_n complain_v of_o the_o priest_n and_o prophet_n for_o their_o wickedness_n for_o thus_o he_o say_v by_o mica_n 3_o mica_n 3_o the_o prince_n judge_v for_o bribe_n the_o priest_n teach_v for_o reward_n and_o the_o prophet_n do_v prophesy_v for_o money_n behold_v also_o what_o god_n complain_v against_o the_o priest_n and_o prophet_n even_o in_o the_o day_n of_o the_o most_o godly_a king_n josia_n as_o you_o may_v read_v in_o the_o prophet_n sophanie_fw-fr 3._o sopha_n 3._o likewise_o where_o the_o holy_a ghost_n show_v the_o cause_n of_o the_o great_a destruction_n which_o come_v upon_o jerusalem_n 36_o 2._o chro._n 36_o he_o say_v that_o all_o the_o chief_a priest_n and_o people_n commit_v many_o transgression_n according_a to_o all_o the_o abomination_n of_o the_o heathen_a and_o defile_v the_o house_n of_o god_n which_o he_o have_v sanctify_v in_o jerusalem_n &_o how_o god_n send_v unto_o they_o his_o prophet_n but_o they_o will_v not_o hear_v they_o see_v then_o if_o the_o wickedness_n of_o the_o priest_n draw_v the_o lord_n out_o of_o his_o temple_n unto_o which_o he_o have_v make_v so_o glorious_a promise_n and_o which_o he_o have_v choose_v to_o be_v the_o place_n where_o he_o will_v be_v worship_v shall_v we_o now_o tie_v he_o to_o that_o chair_n from_o which_o there_o have_v come_v the_o most_o horrible_a villainy_n against_o god_n almost_o that_o ever_o be_v commit_v in_o the_o world_n shall_v we_o say_v that_o the_o most_o pure_a &_o most_o holy_a god_n have_v fasten_v himself_o to_o the_o mother_n of_o whoredom_n and_o abomination_n pa._n you_o take_v great_a pain_n to_o small_a profit_n for_o a_o man_n may_v in_o a_o word_n overthrow_v all_o that_o you_o have_v build_v you_o have_v show_v how_o the_o priest_n and_o governor_n in_o the_o temple_n do_v corrupt_v their_o way_n and_o join_v with_o the_o false_a prophet_n against_o the_o true_a messenger_n of_o the_o lord_n you_o gather_v out_o of_o this_o that_o there_o be_v no_o rule_n leave_v in_o the_o church_n for_o the_o people_n to_o try_v the_o worship_n and_o service_n of_o god_n by_o but_o this_o conclusion_n of_o you_o do_v not_o follow_v because_o the_o corruption_n of_o manner_n and_o withstand_v the_o true_a prophet_n do_v not_o hinder_v but_o that_o they_o remain_v still_o the_o church_n and_o the_o worship_n appoint_v in_o the_o temple_n be_v not_o to_o be_v despise_v for_o if_o any_o do_v forsake_v it_o they_o be_v indeed_o apostat_n for_o when_o they_o be_v even_o at_o the_o 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most_o corrupt_a either_o in_o manner_n or_o withstand_v the_o true_a prophet_n yet_o they_o remain_v still_o the_o church_n and_o the_o service_n and_o worship_n in_o the_o temple_n be_v not_o to_o be_v despise_v if_o any_o do_v they_o be_v apostat_n this_o you_o confirm_v by_o such_o as_o christ_n have_v cleanse_v he_o send_v to_o offer_v to_o the_o priest_n &_o then_o by_o a_o perpetual_a rule_n which_o christ_n give_v dic_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la tel_fw-fr the_o church_n hereupon_o you_o conclude_v again_o that_o we_o be_v heretic_n because_o we_o have_v forsake_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n where_o you_o tell_v we_o that_o the_o abuse_n shall_v not_o drive_v we_o to_o do_v so_o we_o must_v not_o forsake_v our_o mother_n for_o some_o deformity_n and_o want_v of_o beauty_n i_o will_v answer_v you_o that_o this_o argument_n may_v easy_o be_v deny_v when_o you_o say_v those_o which_o do_v forsake_v the_o worship_n in_o the_o temple_n be_v apostat_n therefore_o those_o which_o forsake_v 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than_o your_o popish_a decree_n your_o bald_a and_o doltish_a shift_n to_o drive_v we_o only_o to_o your_o exposition_n of_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o worth_a a_o straw_n god_n holy_a spirit_n have_v bestow_v great_a gift_n upon_o his_o church_n in_o these_o last_o day_n proceed_v with_o your_o matter_n pa._n nay_o you_o shall_v not_o so_o sly_o convey_v your_o self_n you_o make_v small_a account_n of_o the_o interpretation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o agree_v with_o all_o the_o holy_a doctor_n and_o teacher_n even_o from_o the_o time_n of_o the_o apostle_n your_o exposition_n of_o the_o word_n begin_v of_o late_a in_o germany_n and_o therefore_o be_v not_o to_o be_v take_v for_o catholic_a pro._n see_v you_o must_v needs_o lie_v it_o be_v good_a to_o lie_v for_o somewhat_o all_o holy_a doctor_n and_o teacher_n from_o the_o apostle_n be_v on_o your_o side_n this_o all_o do_v signify_v none_o for_o the_o very_a truth_n be_v as_o every_o man_n that_o can_v read_v their_o 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they_o can_v we_o be_v fall_v from_o they_o as_o you_o say_v be_v so_o ready_a to_o do_v they_o all_o the_o homage_n we_o can_v our_o heart_n do_v witness_v that_o we_o do_v it_o in_o simplicity_n moreover_o all_o your_o matter_n be_v not_o worth_a a_o straw_n which_o you_o have_v bring_v out_o of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n you_o have_v show_v that_o in_o israel_n elias_n can_v see_v no_o church_n that_o in_o the_o temple_n the_o priest_n and_o false_a prophet_n do_v conspire_v against_o the_o true_a messenger_n of_o the_o lord_n this_o be_v somewhat_o if_o you_o can_v show_v it_o in_o our_o church_n unto_o which_o christ_n have_v make_v his_o promise_n never_o to_o forsake_v it_o but_o to_o give_v it_o his_o spirit_n
not_o give_v you_o over_o for_o as_o you_o have_v utter_v your_o slander_n against_o the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n so_o you_o must_v give_v i_o leave_v to_o lay_v open_a some_o of_o those_o abomination_n which_o you_o be_v just_o to_o be_v charge_v withal_o pa._n it_o be_v no_o matter_n what_o you_o say_v i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o i_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o defend_v our_o holy_a mother_n from_o all_o your_o spiteful_a accusation_n say_v the_o worst_a you_o can_v pro._n when_o i_o have_v say_v the_o worst_a that_o i_o can_v i_o shall_v yet_o come_v short_a of_o the_o matter_n for_o what_o tongue_n be_v able_a to_o express_v the_o full_a wickedness_n of_o babylon_n the_o mother_n of_o whoredom_n and_o abomination_n which_o do_v in_o pride_n lift_v up_o herself_o against_o god_n and_o his_o truth_n and_o make_v all_o nation_n drunken_a with_o the_o wine_n of_o her_o fornication_n pa._n i_o tell_v you_o this_o be_v but_o to_o rail_v and_o slander_n unless_o you_o be_v able_a to_o 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our_o soul_n what_o be_v your_o intent_n that_o you_o will_v not_o have_v the_o people_n know_v it_o pa._n i_o see_v there_o be_v nothing_o so_o honest_o do_v but_o evil_a man_n will_v suspect_v it_o as_o you_o compare_v our_o do_n with_o whore_n and_o thief_n because_o we_o allow_v not_o the_o people_n to_o read_v the_o scripture_n in_o a_o know_a tongue_n but_o i_o answer_v that_o you_o may_v keep_v your_o comparison_n to_o yourself_o for_o our_o wise_a ancestor_n do_v not_o take_v the_o scripture_n from_o the_o lie_v people_n of_o any_o evil_a intent_n but_o because_o the_o common_a people_n do_v abuse_v they_o and_o gather_v error_n out_o of_o they_o it_o be_v a_o very_a dangerous_a thing_n for_o unlearned_a man_n to_o meddle_v with_o or_o to_o read_v the_o scripture_n they_o be_v dark_a and_o hard_o to_o be_v understand_v every_o man_n can_v not_o gather_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o they_o you_o be_v fool_n and_o therefore_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o judge_v of_o the_o wisdom_n 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