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scripture_n authority_n church_n err_v 2,923 5 9.8588 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A87231 The Quakers quaking: or, the foundation of their deceit shaken, by scripture, reason, their own mouthes at several conferences. By all which will appear, that their quaking, ministery, doctrine, and lives, is a meer deceit, and themselves proved to be the great impostors of these latter times: / by Jeremiah Ives. Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674. 1656 (1656) Wing I1103; Thomason E883_3; ESTC R207296 36,620 64

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14_o 15._o and_o luke_n call_v theophilus_n luk._n 1.3_o most_o noble_a theophilus_n and_o christ_n himself_o bid_v his_o disciple_n not_o to_o covet_v the_o uppermost_a room_n at_o feast_n lest_o a_o more_o honourable_a person_n come_v in_o and_o then_o they_o be_v bid_v sit_v low_o luke_n 14.8_o by_o all_o this_o you_o may_v see_v that_o though_o we_o must_v not_o respect_v person_n in_o judgement_n or_o do_v any_o thing_n for_o a_o rich_a man_n because_o he_o be_v rich_a without_o respect_n have_v to_o the_o equity_n of_o the_o cause_n or_o give_v flatter_a title_n to_o man_n to_o who_o it_o be_v not_o due_a as_o to_o call_v one_o master_n and_o say_v i_o be_o his_o servant_n when_o i_o owe_v he_o no_o service_n yet_o this_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o a_o man_n may_v and_o aught_o to_o acknowledge_v himself_o a_o servant_n when_o he_o be_v real_o and_o true_o so_o and_o though_o it_o be_v flattery_n to_o give_v title_n that_o be_v not_o due_a yet_o it_o be_v a_o duty_n to_o give_v 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some_o in_o it_o but_o our_o lord_n christ_n though_o he_o do_v mighty_a work_n in_o corazin_n and_o bethsaida_n he_o say_v they_o repent_v not_o which_o very_a argument_n of_o you_o be_v so_o far_o from_o prove_v you_o be_v send_v of_o god_n immediate_o that_o it_o rather_o prove_v the_o contrary_a for_o who_o have_v make_v more_o proselyte_n than_o the_o roman_a priest_n and_o monk_n have_v as_o for_o instance_n austin_n the_o monk_n who_o be_v send_v to_o the_o saxon_n by_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n convert_v 10000_o in_o a_o few_o day_n see_v speed_v chronicle_n pag._n 291_o sect._n 8._o and_o who_o be_v there_o that_o be_v acquaint_v with_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o spaniard_n in_o the_o west-indies_n but_o can_v tell_v that_o thousand_o be_v daily_o reduce_v from_o heathenism_n to_o sober_a and_o upright_a life_n by_o the_o roman_a ministry_n and_o yet_o this_o draw_v of_o multitude_n be_v a_o argument_n that_o quaker_n be_v send_v of_o god_n but_o must_v not_o be_v urge_v by_o other_o though_o they_o be_v able_a to_o say_v more_o at_o this_o turn_n than_o all_o the_o quaker_n in_o england_n by_o this_o you_o may_v see_v that_o the_o quaker_n be_v shake_v and_o will_v glad_o make_v every_o straw_n a_o staff_n to_o lean_v upon_o but_o last_o if_o it_o be_v as_o they_o say_v that_o very_a man_n have_v a_o light_n within_o he_o that_o will_v turn_v he_o if_o he_o do_v follow_v it_o to_o what_o purpose_n do_v they_o preach_v one_o to_o another_o so_o that_o they_o have_v no_o cause_n to_o impute_v the_o convert_n of_o man_n to_o their_o ministry_n for_o they_o may_v convert_v without_o it_o the_o last_o argument_n to_o which_o i_o say_v little_a then_o by_o reason_n i_o be_v interrupt_v with_o their_o women-preacher_n be_v this_o viz._n that_o it_o do_v appear_v they_o be_v immediate_o send_v of_o god_n because_o they_o do_v not_o give_v respect_n to_o person_n i_o answer_v first_o then_o all_z the_o quaker_n both_o man_n and_o woman_n be_v send_v of_o god_n 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many_o other_o that_o i_o can_v name_v but_o let_v i_o trouble_v you_o with_o the_o recital_n of_o one_o story_n concern_v austin_n the_o monk_n and_o upon_o the_o read_n of_o it_o you_o will_v think_v if_o james_n say_v true_a that_o austin_n be_v a_o man_n send_v immediate_o of_o god_n austin_n 561_o year_n after_o christ_n in_o the_o time_n of_o ethelbert_n king_n of_o kent_n be_v send_v by_o pope_n gregory_n to_o convert_v the_o saxon_n who_o some_o time_n after_o call_v a_o synod_n unto_o which_o resort_v seven_o british_a bishop_n and_o other_o learned_a man_n say_v beda_n in_o this_o history_n book_n 2._o chap._n 2._o these_o man_n now_o ready_a to_o go_v to_o the_o synod_n come_v first_o to_o a_o certain_a holy_a wise_a man_n to_o ask_v his_o counsel_n which_o some_o think_v be_v bishop_n of_o york_n whether_o they_o ought_v at_o augustine_n preach_v and_o exhortation_n to_o leave_v their_o tradition_n austin_n be_v come_v a_o stranger_n among_o they_o the_o good_a man_n answer_v if_o he_o be_v a_o man_n of_o god_n follow_v he_o but_o say_v they_o how_o shall_v we_o know_v that_o he_o answer_v christ_n say_v he_o say_v that_o we_o shall_v learn_v of_o he_o for_o he_o be_v humble_a and_o meek_a of_o heart_n if_o therefore_o say_v this_o good_a man_n this_o austin_n be_v mild_a and_o bumble_a it_o be_v like_a he_o be_v of_o god_n but_o if_o he_o be_v proud_a no_o proud_a man_n be_v of_o god_n then_o the_o bishop_n inquire_v how_o they_o may_v know_v that_o the_o man_n answer_v provide_v say_v he_o that_o he_o and_o his_o company_n come_v first_o to_o the_o place_n of_o meet_v and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o that_o when_o you_o approach_v near_o he_o he_o arise_v and_o salute_v you_o then_o think_v he_o to_o be_v the_o servant_n of_o christ_n but_o if_o he_o do_v not_o vouchsafe_v to_o rise_v at_o your_o presence_n let_v he_o be_v despise_v they_o hereupon_o take_v the_o old_a man_n counsel_n and_o when_o they_o come_v in_o austin_n the_o monk_n sit_v very_o still_o in_o his_o chair_n and_o stir_v not_o hereupon_o they_o judge_v he_o a_o proud_a man_n see_v speed_v chron._n pag._n 291._o i_o do_v urge_v this_o to_o show_v that_o if_o this_o be_v a_o argument_n a_o man_n be_v send_v of_o god_n immediate_o sure_o this_o man_n viz._n austin_n the_o monk_n be_v so_o send_v of_o god_n and_o so_o be_v all_o the_o pope_n at_o this_o day_n that_o will_v not_o reverence_v any_o monarch_n under_o heaven_n so_o that_o these_o argument_n be_v so_o slender_a that_o if_o christ_n and_o his_o apostle_n have_v have_v no_o better_o they_o have_v never_o make_v any_o proselyte_n to_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n to_o this_o day_n how_o great_o soever_o you_o brag_v of_o your_o convert_v i_o now_o come_v to_o their_o next_o error_n error_n 4_o error_n and_o that_o be_v that_o every_o man_n have_v a_o light_n within_o that_o will_v teach_v a_o man_n to_o worship_n god_n right_o this_o be_v so_o common_a a_o principle_n of_o they_o that_o to_o go_v about_o to_o prove_v it_o be_v but_o to_o hold_v a_o candle_n to_o the_o sun_n therefore_o take_v this_o for_o grant_v that_o they_o thus_o teach_v as_o i_o hope_v i_o may_v without_o wrong_n to_o they_o i_o shall_v now_o show_v that_o this_o be_v false_a doctrine_n and_o be_v teach_v to_o no_o other_o end_n i_o fear_v then_o to_o thrust_v out_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n 1._o for_o first_o what_o need_n be_v there_o of_o scripture_n to_o declare_v the_o mind_n of_o god_n if_o it_o may_v be_v know_v without_o it_o every_o whit_n as_o well_o but_o now_o the_o scripture_n say_v that_o what_o be_v write_v afore-time_o be_v write_v for_o our_o learning_n rom._n 15.4_o and_o john_n 20.31_o but_o these_o thing_n be_v write_v that_o you_o may_v believe_v 1_o cor._n 10.11_o these_o thing_n be_v write_v for_o our_o admonition_n upon_o who_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n be_v come_v 2._o i_o demand_v whether_o by_o the_o light_n which_o be_v in_o the_o whole_a world_n or_o in_o every_o one_o that_o come_v into_o it_o all_o man_n may_v come_v to_o know_v a_o virgin_n have_v a_o son_n without_o any_o other_o external_a mean_n 3._o i_o demand_v whether_o the_o light_n in_o every_o man_n without_o the_o scripture_n can_v bring_v every_o man_n to_o know_v christ_n die_v and_o rise_v again_o in_o three_o day_n 4._o i_o demand_v what_o favour_v it_o be_v to_o the_o people_n of_o israel_n to_o have_v the_o write_a law_n of_o god_n in_o such_o a_o manner_n as_o it_o be_v say_v of_o they_o he_o have_v not_o deal_v so_o with_o any_o nation_n if_o all_o nation_n by_o the_o light_n within_o they_o may_v have_v with_o the_o like_a facility_n understand_v to_o serve_v and_o worship_n god_n as_o well_o without_o they_o 5._o whether_o all_o man_n by_o the_o light_n within_o they_o before_o the_o come_n of_o christ_n can_v ever_o have_v understand_v that_o he_o shall_v be_v bear_v in_o bethlehem_n as_o it_o be_v write_v 6._o whether_o the_o name_n of_o jesus_n christ_n may_v be_v know_v to_o all_o the_o world_n by_o the_o light_n within_o they_o without_o scripture_n or_o tradition_n 7._o i_o demand_v if_o the_o light_n within_o can_v inform_v all_o man_n into_o the_o divine_a worship_n and_o service_n of_o god_n without_o the_o scripture_n whether_o it_o may_v not_o do_v it_o without_o your_o book_n if_o so_o 8._o whether_o or_o no_o you_o that_o will_v not_o be_v prodigal_a of_o your_o apparel_n and_o who_o will_v not_o lay_v out_o money_n upon_o needless_a thing_n be_v not_o at_o this_o turn_n very_o prodigal_a to_o buy_v candle_n to_o light_v they_o to_o the_o sun_n my_o meaning_n be_v to_o
world_n in_o general_n but_o more_o especial_o out_o of_o love_n to_o my_o brethren_n who_o foot_n many_o of_o they_o be_v take_v in_o this_o snare_n not_o know_v that_o they_o be_v for_o their_o life_n and_o if_o god_n shall_v bless_v these_o line_n either_o to_o the_o prevention_n of_o the_o fall_n of_o they_o who_o through_o grace_n yet_o stand_v or_o to_o the_o restore_n of_o those_o that_o be_v fall_v or_o if_o otherwise_o i_o have_v mistake_v any_o thing_n god_n will_v bring_v this_o good_a of_o my_o mistake_n if_o in_o case_n any_o be_v find_v as_o to_o raise_v up_o and_o provoke_v some_o one_o or_o other_o to_o make_v my_o mistake_n manifest_a if_o by_o these_o line_n i_o obtain_v any_o of_o these_o end_n which_o i_o do_v not_o much_o question_n then_o sure_o i_o be_o that_o i_o have_v not_o run_v in_o vain_a but_o shall_v give_v god_n the_o glory_n while_o i_o be_o able_a to_o subscribe_v myself_o jeremiah_n ives_n postscript_n reader_n after_o i_o send_v my_o book_n to_o the_o press_n i_o have_v another_o conference_n with_o james_n nayler_n on_o the_o 22_o of_o june_n 1656._o at_o the_o bull_n and_o mouth_n near_o aldersgate_n which_o be_v as_o follow_v the_o people_n be_v meet_v and_o james_n nayler_n stand_v up_o to_o speak_v i_o do_v desire_v that_o james_n nayler_n will_v prove_v that_o which_o he_o have_v so_o often_o affert_v viz._n that_o every_o man_n in_o the_o world_n have_v the_o light_n within_o he_o speak_v of_o in_o john_n 1_o to_o this_o james_n nayler_n reply_v say_v that_o christ_n do_v inlighten_v every_o man_n that_o come_v into_o the_o world_n according_a to_o joh._n 1._o to_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o i_o do_v not_o oppose_v the_o say_n of_o that_o text_n but_o his_o say_n which_o be_v that_o every_o one_o in_o the_o world_n have_v the_o light_n within_o he_o speak_v of_o in_o that_o text._n to_o this_o james_n nayler_n reply_v say_v he_o will_v have_v i_o bring_v he_o a_o man_n in_o that_o place_n that_o will_v say_v the_o light_n of_o christ_n be_v not_o in_o he_o to_o this_o i_o do_v answer_v first_o that_o every_o man_n in_o the_o world_n be_v not_o in_o that_o place_n and_o therefore_o if_o every_o one_o in_o that_o place_n shall_v say_v this_o light_n be_v in_o they_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o therefore_o that_o light_n speak_v of_o joh._n 1._o be_v in_o every_o one_o in_o the_o world_n but_o second_o i_o tell_v he_o that_o if_o every_o one_o in_o that_o place_n will_v say_v they_o have_v this_o light_n in_o they_o it_o do_v 〈…〉_o as_o i_o fear_v many_o of_o this_o generation_n do_v i_o do_v therefore_o bid_v james_n nayler_n to_o give_v i_o a_o scripture_n to_o prove_v that_o every_o one_o have_v the_o light_n within_o they_o speak_v of_o joh._n 1._o he_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v prove_v already_o in_o every_o man_n conscience_n but_o say_v he_o it_o be_v not_o evidence_v for_o if_o it_o be_v there_o will_v need_v no_o teach_v to_o this_o i_o reply_v that_o if_o it_o be_v prove_v to_o every_o man_n conscience_n than_o it_o be_v evidence_v for_o proof_n and_o evidence_n to_o the_o conscience_n be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o which_o he_o deny_v i_o further_o tell_v he_o that_o the_o conscience_n may_v be_v misguide_v and_o therefore_o it_o do_v not_o follow_v that_o a_o thing_n be_v therefore_o true_a because_o a_o man_n in_o conscience_n think_v it_o so_o i_o therefore_o as_o before_o call_v for_o a_o plain_a text_n for_o proof_n of_o what_o he_o say_v he_o thereupon_o bring_v eph._n 5.13_o 2_o cor._n 4.6_o i_o tell_v he_o neither_o of_o these_o scripture_n do_v prove_v that_o every_o man_n in_o the_o world_n have_v the_o light_n within_o he_o speak_v of_o joh._n 1._o and_o therefore_o if_o he_o have_v any_o scripture_n that_o say_v it_o he_o will_v do_v well_o to_o produce_v it_o and_o if_o not_o to_o forbear_v preach_v any_o such_o thing_n that_o he_o can_v show_v no_o scripture_n for_o hereupon_o james_n assume_v a_o apostolical_a authority_n and_o say_v that_o 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the_o saviour_n of_o all_o man_n though_o all_o man_n shall_v not_o be_v save_v inasmuch_o as_o he_o have_v by_o his_o die_v for_o the_o world_n put_v all_o man_n into_o a_o salvable_a capacity_n in_o like_a manner_n he_o light_v every_o one_o that_o come_v into_o the_o world_n inasmuch_o as_o he_o use_v mean_n for_o the_o bring_v the_o world_n to_o the_o light_n though_o all_o have_v not_o this_o light_n within_o they_o again_o i_o tell_v james_n nayler_n that_o this_o light_n in_o joh._n 1._o be_v christ_n who_o be_v the_o light_n of_o the_o world_n and_o if_o every_o one_o have_v this_o light_n in_o they_o than_o every_o one_o have_v christ_n in_o they_o but_o i_o tell_v he_o that_o can_v not_o be_v because_o we_o read_v eph._n 2._o of_o some_o that_o be_v without_o christ_n i_o further_o tell_v he_o that_o the_o scripture_n tell_v we_o of_o some_o that_o have_v no_o light_n in_o they_o joh._n 11.10_o isa_n 8.20_o he_o answer_v that_o possible_o god_n have_v put_v out_o their_o light_n because_o they_o do_v not_o walk_v according_a to_o it_o to_o this_o i_o do_v reply_v that_o then_o he_o do_v contradict_v himself_o for_o if_o some_o have_v no_o light_n in_o they_o because_o god_n have_v put_v it_o out_o how_o can_v he_o say_v every_o one_o have_v this_o light_n in_o he_o but_o further_a the_o text_n in_o joh._n 11._o say_v that_o if_o a_o man_n walk_v in_o the_o dark_a he_o stumble_v because_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o he_o now_o i_o tell_v james_n nayler_n that_o those_o that_o he_o say_v he_o turn_v from_o darkness_n be_v such_o as_o walk_v in_o darkness_n by_o their_o own_o confession_n and_o if_o so_o then_o whether_o it_o be_v not_o better_a to_o say_v with_o the_o text_n there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o he_o then_o to_o say_v contrary_a to_o the_o text_n with_o the_o quaker_n that_o when_o man_n walk_v in_o darkness_n the_o light_n of_o christ_n be_v in_o they_o hereupon_o james_n nayler_n ask_v if_o the_o heathen_a have_v not_o a_o light_n i_o tell_v he_o first_o that_o they_o may_v have_v a_o light_n among_o they_o that_o they_o may_v not_o receive_v within_o they_o and_o second_o that_o though_o they_o have_v a_o light_n in_o they_o yet_o this_o do_v not_o prove_v that_o the_o light_n which_o they_o have_v be_v the_o light_n speak_v of_o joh._n 1._o which_o light_n be_v christ_n jesus_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o affirm_v i_o therefore_o do_v entreat_v he_o to_o reconcile_v their_o doctrine_n with_o joh._n 11.10_o their_o doctrine_n be_v that_o every_o one_o have_v the_o light_n of_o christ_n within_o he_o john_n say_v if_o a_o man_n walk_v in_o the_o dark_a he_o stumble_v because_o there_o be_v no_o light_n in_o he_o to_o this_o james_n nayler_n reply_v that_o there_o be_v two_o seed_n in_o man_n and_o there_o be_v a_o old_a man_n and_o a_o new_a man_n and_o a_o man_n bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n and_o a_o man_n bear_v after_o the_o spirit_n so_o that_o say_v he_o he_o that_o be_v the_o old_a man_n and_o bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n he_o have_v no_o light_n in_o he_o i_o than_o ask_v he_o how_o every_o one_o that_o come_v into_o the_o world_n have_v the_o light_n of_o christ_n in_o he_o if_o he_o that_o be_v bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n have_v not_o the_o light_n within_o he_o for_o as_o i_o then_o tell_v he_o no_o man_n come_v into_o the_o world_n but_o he_o be_v bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n he_o answer_v that_o i_o speak_v like_o a_o sot_n in_o say_v that_o very_a man_n that_o come_v into_o the_o world_n be_v bear_v after_o the_o flesh_n for_o say_v he_o christ_n be_v not_o bear_v after_o