Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	authority_n	church_n	err_v	2,923	5	9.8588	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A87231	The Quakers quaking: or, the foundation of their deceit shaken, by scripture, reason, their own mouthes at several conferences. By all which will appear, that their quaking, ministery, doctrine, and lives, is a meer deceit, and themselves proved to be the great impostors of these latter times: / by Jeremiah Ives.	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1656 (1656)	Wing I1103; Thomason E883_3; ESTC R207296	36,620	64

14 15. And Luke calls Theophilus Luk. 1.3 Most Noble Theophilus And Christ himself bids his Disciples Not to covet the uppermost rooms at feasts lest a MORE HONORABLE person come in and then they be bid sit lower Luke 14.8 By all this you may see that though we must not respect persons in Judgement or do any thing for a rich man because he is rich without respect had to the equity of the cause or give flattering Titles to men to whom it is not due as to call one Master and say I am his Servant when I owe him no service yet this doth not hinder but a man may and ought to acknowledge himself a Servant when he is really and truly so And though it be flattery to give Titles that are not due yet it is a duty to give them where and when they are due Seventhly they are not Infallible as they pretend This I prove because if one propose a question to one of them he shall give one answer propose the same to another he shall give another answer quite contrary to the former and so if you shall go on to a fourth or fifth not one of five nay I dare say not one of ten shall give the same answer with the first and yet sometimes these men do make the harmony that is among them an argument that they are infallible when no Trumpet that sounds forth any thing of Religion to the world gives a more uncertain sound then theirs And truly I know nothing wherein they were ever so well agreed as they were office at their Meetings in Kent wherein they all agreed to meet together many times and said nothings Truly if this dumb spirit had alwayes been among them it had been happy for many thousand souls in this Nation who are now miserably deluded with their fair words Eighthly I shall further prove in opposition to another Errour of theirs That Christ had and yet hath another Body besides his Church And my first Argument is this viz. If Christ had a Body that was broken for his Church then he had a Body besides the Church But he had a Body that was broken for his Church Ergo. The major is unquestionable or else Christ gave the Church to be broken for the Church if he had no Body besides the Church which is absurd The minor is proved from Matth. 26.26 Luke 22.19 where Christ saith of his Body that it was broken for them By this you may see these men either cannot or will not distinguish between the Body of Christ which is glorified in the Heavens and the Church of Christ which is his Mystical Body upon Earth and who if they continue faithful shall have their vile bodies made like unto his glorious body according to that of the Apostle Phil. 3.21 Thus Reader thou hast an account of a sew of those many vain Errours that are profest by this generation of men who go up and down to subvert whole houses and congregations and to pervert the right and straight wayes of the Lord. But I hope the Lord will put a stop to these mens careers that they may proceed no further that their folly may be made manifest unto all that every one may take heed that he be not led away wit the errour of the wicked and fall from his own stedfastness I shall now proceed to shew the Reader that these conceits though they are newly risen among us yet they were such wherewith the Churches of Christ have been pester'd even in the Primitive Times and that not onely in the dayes of the Apostles but in the Ages following wherein men did rise up and say They were sent of God and afterwards grew into such Blasphemous Opinions as these men are now fallen into some saying They are the Eternal Judges of the World others saying The Day of Judgement is past Others saying They have Divine Revelations others saying They are Christs and That they are the Way the Truth and the Life c. And that these men do agree with most of the Hereticks both Ancient and Modern I shall mention some few among the rest As first they have affinity with Hymeneus and Philetus who said That the Resurrection was past already 1 Tim. 2.18 in that they as I have already shewn say The Day of Judgement is past already Secondly they have affinity with the Gnostici which said They knew all things See Epiphan Haeres 26. So say these men and thereupon one of them namely Farnworth being asked If he knew what two men spake one to another being apart from them he answered That though he did know yet he was not bound to answer the question because saith he it is an unbeliever that asketh it Again they agree with the fore-cited Hereticks inasmuch as they taught That Christ did not take flesh really but in a figure so say these for one of them being asked this question answers That Christ was but a figure See Sauls Errand to Damascus pag. 54. Thirdly they have affinity with the Manichees whose Ring-leader Manes call'd himself The Comforter and said He was Christ Euseb lib. 7. cap. 30. So do some of their Teachers saying They are the Way Truth and Life Fourthly they have affinity with the great Heretick Seleucus who denied the Humanity of Christ to be in Heaven and Water-baptism He lived in the time of Theodosius Magnus See August lib. de Haeres Both which Errours are maintained by the Quakers though they are repugnant to holy Scriptures Fifthly they have affinity with the Papists in the great Master-veins of Popery As 1. the Papists do introduce all their vain conceits by this Maxime That the Church cannot Erre and from thence it is that the Quakers do usher in all their Dreams viz. That they are perfect and cannot erre 2. The Papists do make the writings of their General Councels of equal Authority with holy Scripture So do the Quakers make their pernicious Pamphlets And at this they exceed the Papists for the Papist will not say That none of their Priests have erred neither will they say That the Writings of any particular man except the Pope is Infallible but these Quakers say That their Writings are of equal Authority with hely Scriptures although they are the private conceptions of either particular men or womens brains 3. They agree with the Papist Priests in that they would make the outside of their conversations an argument to demonstrate the truth of their Apostolical sending In like manner as I have formerly said James Nayler and Boroughs and divers others of their false Apostles being asked How they could prove they were sent of God answered That their lives did make it manifest because they denied themselves in point of Apparel c. By this it appears that the Quakers are compounded with most of the grossest Errours that the Church of old were incumbred withall Sixthly and lastly they do in many of their fore-mentioned Errours agree with their lorefathers

THE QUAKERS QVAKING OR The Foundation of their Deceit shaken BY SCRIPTURE REASON Their own MOUTHES at several Conferences By all which will appear That their QUAKING MINISTERY DOCTRINE and LIVES is a meer Deceit And themselves proved to be the great Impostors of these Latter Times By JEREMIAH IVES Matth. 24. ● 5. And Jesus answered and said unto them Take heed that no man deceive you For many shall come in my Name saying I am Christ and shall deceive many Rom. 16.18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ but their own belly and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple Prov. 14.15 The simple believeth every word but the wise man looketh well to his goings Job 6.25 How forcible are right words but what do your arguings reprove 1 Tim. 1.7 That desire to be Teachers of the Law understanding neither what they say nor whereof they affirm London Printed by J Cottrel for R. Moon at the Seven Stars in S. Pauls Church-yard 1656. To the Churches of the Lord Jesus Christ that are called to be faithful and that are baptized into his Name and meet together in his fear to stand for that faith that was once delivered to the Saints BRETHREN I Know none to whom these ensuing lines will be more welcome then to you because you are the men about whom Satan hath laid his closest siege and levied his greatest force I therefore thought it my duty to send to you some relief and if Possible to raise the siege that hath for a long time been laid against you by the great and subtile Adversaries to your Faith and Order which the Lord help you to continue in that so you may be terrible as an Army with banners and that you may so be it shall be my daily request to the Lord on your behalf that love and unity may increase among you that you may all minde one thing that so the Adversary may have no occasion given him to spoil you of your joy and rejoycing in the confidence that you have in Christ Jesus For when you shall divide and separate one from another and have bitter envyings among your selves rendings and tearings of the Body of Christ upon offences given or taken by some particular person or for some particular Opinion doth not this if I may use the phrase make the daughters of the Uncircumcised rejoyce and say How are the Mighty fallen even you that were once valiant for the Truth will they not say What are you become like us Therefore for the Lords sake let the bond of love and holiness be kept inviolable by you all that so you may be preserved from falling into the gulfs of Apostacy that many in these latter times have fallen into And that you may so be kept let me intreat you to keep high and honorable thoughts of the Scriptures let none of the words of our dear Lord Jesus slip out of your minde have a care of sucking in such Principles that will impair the Credit and Authority of Gods Words as That the Scriptures are not the Word of God and That the Light within you is of equal or better Authority and That it doth teach us how to Worship God without the Scriptures And prize the Ordinances of God and remember what a blessed thing it is for Christians to meet often together and to think often upon Gods laws and be frequent in the observance of them in a time when men say What profit is it that we have kept his Ordinances knowing that your labour shall not be in vain in the Lord. And those that God bath made your Elders and Overseers say unto them That they take heed to their Ministery left the Lord charge the Souls of them that shall be seduced upon their score and if God hath set such over you that do wake and watch for your souls have them in double honour have a care of slighting them that are your Watchmen left the Lord remove them from you into corners and you be left as a City forsaken for the wilde Beasts of the field and Boars of the forest to prey upon from which the Lord deliver you Oh therefore that you would every one in your places and callings watch and pray that you enter not into the temptations of these times especially these Quaking temptations that like the snares of the Fowlers are spread in all corners of the Nation and remember that you are for your lives that so you may escape the snare of the Devil into which many are led captive and are taken at his will and that you might be the better acquainted with his wyles I have presented you with a few of their snares that you might know how to escape them if they shall spread them before you And I doubt not but if you shall carefully observe and seriously examine the Truth of what is here proposed you will be throughly furnished to withstand these subtile Adversaries at every turn and preserve your selves from falling unto his heavenly Kingdom which shall be the Prayers of him who is willing to bow his knee for you all to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Jeremiah Ives To the Impartial READER of what Opinion soever READER I Shall desire no more savour from thee then to reade and judge whether what follows be not conclusive both from Scripture Reason and the mens own words again st whom I write as will appear by the several Conferences that I have had with them as also from their several Writings to which I shall refer thee if thou wilt take pains to search into them By which thou shalt see that this deceitful generation with whom I strive and whose deceit my pen hath been in travel to bring forth to the worlds view are such whose mouthes are full of great swelling and lying words saying They are immediately sent of God c. And when they are put to prove it can say no more then what others can say whom themselves cry down for Antichristian Nay there is many whom they daily cry down that can say more for their authority to Preach then themselves though they will not boast of their immediate sending and their mouthes are not onely stuft with such big-swelling words but their books also especially in the Title-pages of them as one calling his Book Love to the Loft another A Salutation to the seed of God another A discovery of the wisdome from beneath another The Power and Glory of God shining out of the North another The Royal Law and Covenant of God another News out of the North written from the mouth of God another The Vials of the Wrath of God pured upon the Seat of the Man of Sin another A Warning from the Lord to the Teacher and People another A true prophesie of the mighty Day of the Lord another A Trumpet from the Lord founded out of Sion another A VVhirlwind of the Lord gone forth

some in it But our Lord Christ though he did mighty work in Corazin and Bethsaida he saith they repented not Which very Argument of yours is so farre from proving you are sent of God immediately that it rather proves the contrary for who hath made more Proselytes then the Roman Priests and Monks have as for instance Austine the Monk who was sent to the Saxons by the Bishop of Rome converted 10000 in a few dayes See Speeds Chronicle pag. 291 Sect. 8. And who is there that is acquainted with the proceedings of the Spaniards in the West-Indies but can tell that thousands are daily reduced from Heathenism to sober and upright lives by the Roman Ministery and yet this drawing of multitudes is an Argument That Quakers are sent of God but must not be urged by others though they are able to say more at this turn then all the Quakers in England By this you may see that the Quakers are shaking and would gladly make every Straw a Staff to lean upon But lastly if it be as they say That very man hath a Light within him that would turn him if he do follow it to what purpose do they preach one to another So that they have no cause to impute the converting of men to their Ministery for they might convert without it The last Argument to which I said little then by reason I was interrupted with their Women-preachers was this viz. That it did appear they were immediately sent of God because they did not give respect to persons I answer first then All the Quakers both men and women are sent of God immediately to preach the Gospel for none of them give respect to persons But secondly is not this an abominable piece of wickedness for by the rule of contraries Paul was not sent of God for he did respect Festus and call'd him MOST NOBLE FESTUS Acts 24.3 and 26.25 Now all the people were not Most Noble for the Scripture saith Not many Noble are called by which it appears that some were more Noble then others and had that respect given to them that was not common to all But I shall say more to this anon My last answer to this Argument if I may so call it and James not judge me for a Lyer is That if their not sitting up and giving civil respect be an argument that these are sent of God then Austin the Monk was sent of God and many others that I could name but let me trouble you with the recital of one story concerning Austin the Monk and upon the reading of it you will think if James saith true that Austin was a man sent immediately of God Austin 561 yeares after Christ in the time of Ethelbert King of Kent was sent by Pope Gregory to convert the Saxons who some time after call a Synod unto which resorted seven British Bishops and other learned men saith Beda in this History Book 2. Chap. 2. These men now ready to go to the Synod came first to a certain holy wise man to ask his counsel which some think was bishop of York Whether they ought at Austins Preaching and Exhortation to leave their Traditions Austin being come a stranger among them The good man answered If he be a man of God follow him but said they how shall we know that He answered Christ saith he said That we should learn of him for he was humble and meek of heart If therefore saith this good man this Austin be milde and bumble it is like he is of God but if he be proud no proud man is of God Then the Bishops inquired how they might know that The man answereth Provide saith he that he and his company come first to the place of Meeting and if it be so that when you approach near him he arise and salute you then think him to be the Servant of Christ but if he do not vouchsafe to rise at your presence let him be despised They hereupon took the old mans counsel and when they came in Austin the Monk sate very still in his Chair and stirred not hereupon they judged him a proud man See Speeds Chron. pag. 291. I do urge this to shew That if this be an argument a man is sent of God immediately surely this man viz. Austin the Monk was so sent of God and so are all the Popes at this day that will not reverence any Monarch under Heaven so that these Arguments are so slender that if Christ and his Apostles had had no better they had never made any Proselytes to the Kingdom of Heaven to this day how greatly soever you brag of your Converts I now come to their next Error 4 Error and that is That every man hath a Light within that will teach a man to Worship God rightly This is so common a principle of theirs that to go about to prove it were but to hold a candle to the Sun therefore taking this for granted that they thus teach as I hope I may without wrong to them I shall now shew That this is false Doctrine and is taught to no other end I fear then to thrust out the Authority of the holy Scriptures 1. For first what need is there of Scripture to declare the Minde of God if it may be known without it every whit as well But now the Scripture saith that what was writ afore-time was writ for our Learning Rom. 15.4 and John 20.31 But these things were writ that you might believe 1 Cor. 10.11 These things were written for our admonition upon whom the ends of the world are come 2. I demand Whether by the Light which is in the whole world or in every one that comes into it all men may come to know a Virgin had a Son without any other external means 3. I demand Whether the Light in every man without the Scriptures can bring every man to know Christ dyed and rose again in three dayes 4. I demand What favour it was to the people of Israel to have the written Law of God in such a manner as it is said of them He had not dealt so with any Nation if all Nations by the Light within them might have with the like facility understood to serve and worship God as well without them 5. Whether all men by the Light within them before the coming of Christ could ever have understood that he should be born in Bethlehem as it was written 6. Whether the Name of Jesus Christ may be knowne to all the World by the Light within them without Scripture or Traditions 7. I demand if the Light within can inform all men into the Divine Worship and Service of God without the Scriptures Whether it may not do it without your Books If so 8. Whether or no you that will not be prodigal of your Apparel and who will not lay out money upon needless things are not at this turn very prodigal to buy candles to light them to the Sun My meaning is to

world in general but more especially out of love to my Brethren whose feet many of them are taken in this Snare not knowing that they are for their lives And if God shall bless these Lines either to the prevention of the falling of them who through grace yet stand or to the restoring of those that are fallen or if otherwise I have mistaken any thing God will bring this good of my mistake if in case any be found as to raise up and provoke some one or other to make my mistake manifest If by these Lines I obtain any of these ends which I do not much question then sure I am that I have not run in vain but shall give God the glory while I am able to subscribe my self Jeremiah Ives POSTSCRIPT READER AFter I sent my book to the Press I had another Conference with James Nayler on the 22 of June 1656. at the Bull and Mouth neer Aldersgate which was as followeth The people being met and James Nayler standing up to speak I did desire that James Nayler would prove that which he had so often afferted viz. That every man in the world had the Light within him spoken of in John 1. To this James Nayler replyed saying That Christ did inlighten every man that came into the world according to Joh. 1. To this I answered That I did not oppose the saying of that Text but his saying which was That every one in the world had the Light within him Spoke of in that Text. To this James Nayler replies saying He would have me bring him a man in that place that would say the Light of Christ was not in him To this I did answer First that every man in the world was not in that place and therefore if every one in that place should say This Light was in them it did not follow that therefore that Light spoken of Joh. 1. was in every one in the world But secondly I told him That if every one in that place would say they had this Light in them it did 〈…〉 as I fear many of this generation do I did therefore bid James Nayler to give me a Scripture to prove that every one had the Light within them spoken of Joh. 1. He answers That it was proved already in every mans Conscience but saith he it is not evidenced for if it were there would need no Teaching To this I replyed that if it were proved to every mans conscience then it was EVIDENCED for proof and evidence to the conscience was one and the same which he denied I further told him That the conscience might be misguided and therefore it did not follow that a thing is therefore true because a man in conscience thinks it so I therefore as before call'd for a plain Text for proof of what he said He thereupon brings Eph. 5.13 2 Cor. 4.6 I told him Neither of these Scriptures did prove That every man in the world had the Light within him spoken of Joh. 1. and therefore if he had any Scripture that said it he would do well to produce it and if not to forbear preaching any such thing that he could shew no Scripture for Hereupon James assumes an Apostolical Authority and saith That though there were no Scripture that said what he said yet it might be true for saith he the Apostles said many things that THEY had no Scripture for To this I replyed That he was no Apostle and therefore as before call'd for a proof of this notion that they preach in most places where they come viz. That everyone hath this Light within him He hereupon demanded How Christ was the Light that lighteth every one that comes into the world if this Light was not in every one To this I did answer as formerly That God and Christ were usually said in Scripture-dialect to do things for the world when they did use a means sufficient for the doing of it and so Christ is said to take away the sin of the world and to be the Saviour of the world and the Saviour of ALL men though all men shall not be saved inasmuch as he hath by his dying for the world put all men into a salvable capacity In like manner he lighteth every one that comes into the world inasmuch as he useth means for the bringing the world to the Light though all have not this Light WITHIN them Again I told James Nayler That this Light in Joh. 1. was Christ who is the Light of the world and if every one had this Light in them then every one had Christ in them But I told him that could not be because we reade Eph. 2. of some that were WITHOUT Christ I further told him That the Scriptures told us of some that had NO Light in them Joh. 11.10 Isa 8.20 He answered That possibly God had put out their Light because they did not walk according to it To this I did reply That then he did contradict himself for if some had no Light in them because God had put it out How could he say EVERY ONE HATH this Light IN him But further the Text in Joh. 11. saith that If A MAN walks in the dark he stumbles BECAUSE there is NO Light IN him Now I told James Nayler That those that he sayes he turns from darkness are such as WALK in darkness by their own confession and if so then whether it be not better to say with the Texts There is no light in him then to say contrary to the Text with the Quakers that when men walk in darkness The light of Christ is in them Hereupon James Nayler asked If the heathen had not a Light I told him first that they might have a light among them that they might not receive within them And secondly that though they had a Light in them yet this did not prove that the Light which they had was the Light spoken of Joh. 1. which Light is Christ Jesus which is the thing they affirm I therefore did intreat him to reconcile their Doctrine with Joh. 11.10 Their Doctrine is that Every one hath the Light of Christ within him John saith If a man walk in the dark he stumbleth because there is NO Light IN him To this James Nayler replyed that there were two seeds in man and there was an old man and a new man and a man born after the flesh and a man born after the Spirit so that saith he he that is the old man and born after the flesh he hath no Light in him I then asked him How every one that comes into the world hath the light of Christ in him if he that is born after the flesh have not the Light within him for as I then told him no man comes into the world but he is born after the flesh He answers that I spake like a Sot in saying that very man that came into the world was born after the flesh for saith he Christ was not born after