Selected quad for the lemma: scripture_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
scripture_n	aaron_n	act_n	lord_n	18	3	2.8388	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85314	Separation examined: or, a treatise vvherein the grounds for separation from the ministry and churches of England are weighed, and found too light. The practise proved to be not onely unwarrantable, but likewise so hurtful to the churches, that church-reformation cannot with any comfort go forward, so long as such separation is tolerated. Also an humble request presented to the congregational divines, that since the differences between them and the classical-divines are very small they would please to strike in with the classical-divines in carrying on the worke of reformation, before the inundation of these corrupt opinions, have destroyed both ordinances and religion. / By Gi. Firmin minister to the church in Shalford in essex.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.	1652 (1652)	Wing F964; Thomason E656_12; ESTC R206624	107,263	123

that_o though_o there_o be_v officer_n in_o a_o church_n yet_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v which_o i_o be_o sure_a those_o divine_n who_o be_v for_o the_o people_n power_n in_o ordination_n will_v never_o admit_v be_v cross_a to_o their_o own_o principle_n and_o scripture_n 4_o we_o find_v in_o the_o eleven_o verse_n that_o after_o that_o be_v do_v aaron_n do_v wave_v these_o levite_n before_o the_o lord_n so_o that_o they_o be_v not_o complete_a till_o aaron_n have_v do_v his_o act_n whence_o i_o remember_v learned_a master_n cotton_n in_o his_o discourse_n with_o i_o say_v the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o do_v but_o answer_v to_o the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o aaron_n wave_v of_o they_o do_v answer_v to_o our_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o clause_n only_o i_o remember_v but_o he_o have_v a_o large_a answer_n which_o i_o take_v from_o he_o in_o discourse_n by_o which_o i_o remember_v he_o do_v enervate_a this_o objection_n but_o i_o lose_v his_o note_n with_o all_o my_o other_o help_n in_o my_o shipwreck_n these_o man_n call_v for_o precept_n and_o example_n give_v you_o we_o one_o for_o this_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o you_o put_v we_o to_o that_o also_o we_o must_v give_v you_o they_o out_o of_o the_o new_a testament_n yea_o iwould_v go_v further_o and_o desire_v they_o to_o give_v i_o one_o examplein_n the_o first_o six_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n that_o ever_o the_o people_n do_v ordain_v their_o minister_n now_o this_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o we_o can_v find_v no_o foot-step_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o scripture_n nor_o in_o the_o age_n next_o and_o yet_o that_o we_o shall_v make_v it_o so_o frequent_a that_o they_o must_v ordain_v most_o frequent_o for_o if_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v independent_a as_o now_o such_o a_o church_n where_o i_o be_o in_o a_o small_a village_n where_o the_o maintenance_n will_v not_o keep_v one_o minister_n and_o therefore_o to_o be_v sure_o we_o can_v have_v more_o minister_n then_o if_o the_o minister_n remove_v or_o die_v if_o there_o come_v a_o new_a minister_n the_o people_n must_v ever_o ordain_v thus_o it_o must_v be_v in_o most_o place_n in_o england_n few_o will_v be_v except_v 2_o justin_n mart._n apol_n 2_o and_o if_o every_o new_a election_n must_v have_v a_o new_a ordination_n than_o it_o must_v always_o be_v in_o the_o people_n power_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n there_o be_v church_n in_o city_n and_o village_n but_o that_o the_o christian_n in_o village_n do_v ordain_v their_o officer_n i_o will_v glad_o see_v that_o prove_v ordination_n in_o those_o time_n be_v carry_v by_o a_o continue_a succession_n the_o apostle_n ordain_v some_o minister_n those_o ordain_o other_o so_o downward_o but_o never_o by_o the_o people_n learned_a dr._n 6_o ●ell_o enter_fw-mi to_o 2._o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s_o 6_o ames_n seem_v to_o answer_v this_o for_o whereas_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v in_o novo_fw-la testamento_fw-la ubicunque_fw-la mentio_fw-la fit_a manunm_fw-la impositionis_fw-la semper_fw-la ea_fw-la apostolis_n caeterisque_fw-la episcapis_fw-la nunquàm_fw-la vero_fw-la plebi_fw-la tribuitur_fw-la the_o doctor_n answer_v to_o this_o in_o historiâ_fw-la novi_fw-la testamenti_fw-la exempla_fw-la babemus_fw-la constitutionis_fw-la ministerii_fw-la &_o ejusdem_fw-la etiam_fw-la conservationis_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la restaurationis_fw-la ejus_fw-la aut_fw-la reformationis_fw-la post_fw-la generalem_fw-la apostasiam_fw-la omne_fw-la igitur_fw-la quae_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la plebem_fw-la fidelem_fw-la in_fw-la tali_fw-la casu_fw-la non_fw-la representantur_fw-la ibi_fw-la certis_fw-la exemplis_fw-la however_o these_o word_n seem_v to_o carry_v it_o as_o if_o the_o doctor_n do_v hold_v that_o the_o people_n have_v this_o power_n in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n yet_o i_o question_v whether_o the_o doctor_n will_v look_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o england_n now_o under_o such_o a_o notion_n neither_o will_v he_o deny_v the_o ordination_n of_o our_o minister_n to_o be_v valid_a for_o substance_n but_o yet_o hear_v one_o may_v cast_v in_o something_o in_o time_n of_o reformation_n it_o may_v be_v he_o say_v 1_o to_o reform_v the_o minister_n be_v to_o form_n it_o now_o as_o it_o be_v first_o form_v but_o the_o ministry_n be_v not_o at_o first_o form_v by_o the_o people_n ergo_fw-la the_o ministry_n can_v be_v now_o reform_v by_o the_o people_n i_o think_v the_o major_n will_v not_o be_v deny_v for_o the_o minor_a let_v any_o prove_v that_o according_a to_o this_o some_o will_v say_v we_o must_v have_v apostle_n they_o form_v the_o minister_n first_o we_o speak_v of_o ordination_n i_o say_v non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la unless_o you_o can_v prove_v the_o apostle_n ordain_v only_o quâ_fw-la apostle_n if_o so_o i_o know_v not_o how_o those_o minister_n who_o the_o apostle_n do_v ordain_v can_v ordain_v other_o but_o to_o be_v sure_a they_o do_v 2_o i_o desire_n a_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o hold_v out_o this_o that_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n 3_o i_o doubt_v we_o shall_v rare_o find_v such_o time_n when_o there_o be_v a_o society_n of_o godly_a christian_n to_o ordain_v but_o there_o be_v some_o minister_n also_o ordinary_o there_o be_v minister_n who_o teach_v this_o people_n 4_o it_o will_v be_v a_o question_n whether_o the_o apostasy_n have_v be_v such_o as_o to_o require_v this_o for_o if_o baptism_n be_v not_o repeat_v but_o be_v think_v valid_a though_o administer_v by_o a_o romish_a minister_n because_o he_o be_v set_v apart_o to_o the_o work_n and_o keep_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o ordinance_n why_o may_v not_o the_o ordination_n administer_v by_o those_o minister_n hold_v as_o well_o 2_o a_o second_o ground_n that_o make_v i_o doubt_n be_v this_o it_o seem_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o christ_n shall_v appoint_v extraordinary_a officer_n and_o make_v that_o a_o part_n of_o their_o work_n which_o the_o people_n themselves_o may_v do_v paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o ordain_v but_o what_o need_v that_o the_o people_n may_v well_o say_v what_o need_n paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o do_v that_o which_o we_o can_v do_v ourselves_o frustra_fw-la fit_a per_fw-la plura_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o apostle_n never_o need_v but_o to_o preach_v and_o convert_v the_o people_n to_o the_o faith_n when_o they_o have_v do_v so_o they_o shall_v have_v say_v we_o have_v now_o do_v our_o work_n bring_v you_o to_o be_v believer_n you_o may_v now_o elect_v a_o officer_n and_o ordain_v he_o yourselves_o the_o power_n be_v you_o only_o here_o will_v have_v be_v some_o trouble_n about_o baptise_v since_o than_o i_o find_v that_o this_o be_v part_n of_o their_o office_n than_o i_o can_v believe_v this_o be_v the_o people_n work_n paul_n may_v easy_o have_v leave_v we_o a_o precedent_n in_o some_o society_n of_o christian_n that_o will_v have_v quiet_v all_o our_o dispute_n more_o may_v be_v say_v and_o be_v say_v by_o other_o but_o i_o see_v our_o new_a england_n divine_v do_v almost_o yield_v it_o by_o give_v power_n to_o some_o minister_n to_o ordain_v in_o other_o congregation_n since_o nothing_o can_v be_v draw_v from_o scripture_n by_o precept_n or_o example_n to_o prove_v this_o hence_o some_o will_v draw_v it_o out_o by_o argument_n those_o who_o can_v do_v the_o great_a may_v do_v the_o less_o the_o people_n can_v do_v the_o great_a viz._n elect_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v as_o free_o deny_v as_o it_o be_v affirm_v election_n be_v not_o the_o great_a scripture-light_n be_v judge_n that_o be_v the_o design_n i_o doubt_v of_o make_v ordination_n but_o a_o adjunct_n for_o so_o indeed_o it_o will_v easy_o be_v grant_v if_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n and_o this_o only_o be_v a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n may_v well_o ordain_v yea_o and_o in_o a_o church_n where_o there_o be_v officer_n to_o ordain_v i_o know_v not_o why_o they_o who_o give_v the_o essence_n may_v not_o give_v the_o adjunct_n why_o shall_v a_o adjunct_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o officer_n only_o in_o that_o church_n when_o the_o essence_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o 10._o mr._n n._n w._n omnis_fw-la quaestio_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la aliud_fw-la quod_fw-la quaeritur_fw-la babebit_fw-la resolutionem_fw-la nec_fw-la ambiguitas_fw-la per_fw-la ambiguitatem_fw-la sed_fw-la ex_fw-la elaris_fw-la manifestis_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 2._o c._n 10._o further_o than_o as_o member_n they_o join_v with_o the_o people_n for_o so_o it_o seem_v the_o officer_n elect_v as_o member_n and_o if_o you_o do_v elect_v only_o as_o member_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o also_o ordain_v as_o member_n for_o election_n be_v the_o great_a this_o the_o less_o the_o other_o argument_n be_v the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n ergo_fw-la but_o this_o be_v not_o easy_o yield_v it_o be_v a_o

maintain_v any_o officer_n i_o wish_v there_o be_v not_o too_o strong_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o covetousness_n and_o ambition_n reign_v too_o much_o among_o this_o kind_n of_o separatist_n yet_o because_o the_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n will_v be_v of_o great_a consequence_n to_o the_o follow_a discourse_n as_o be_v the_o groundwork_n of_o it_o i_o will_v therefore_o produce_v one_o argument_n to_o prove_v it_o and_o if_o i_o can_v prove_v that_o than_o it_o will_v necessary_o follow_v there_o be_v a_o true_a visible_a church_n on_o the_o earth_n which_o as_o i_o say_v i_o think_v no_o christian_a dare_v deny_v but_o what_o da●es_v not_o the_o vile_a heart_n of_o man_n think_v say_v or_o do_v if_o god_n give_v it_o up_o to_o its_o own_o blindness_n and_o wickedness_n master_n burrough_n make_v mention_n of_o schusselburgius_fw-la 236._o iren._n pag._n 236._o who_o collect_v the_o sect_n opinion_n and_o way_n of_o man_n soon_o after_o luther_n say_v there_o be_v not_o any_o one_o strange_a opinion_n among_o we_o now_o but_o you_o shall_v find_v it_o among_o they_o in_o terminis_fw-la only_a i_o remember_v not_o that_o one_o that_o have_v take_v some_o who_o though_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o scripture_n yet_o think_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n on_o the_o earth_n many_o be_v the_o error_n that_o be_v confute_v condemn_v in_o the_o first_o synod_n in_o new_a england_n which_o error_n i_o find_v here_o in_o england_n but_o there_o be_v not_o this_o error_n among_o they_o all_o to_o my_o remembrance_n it_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v say_v of_o africa_n that_o every_o year_n it_o produce_v a_o new_a monster_n but_o now_o it_o must_v be_v say_v of_o england_n that_o it_o have_v produce_v such_o a_o spiritual_a monster_n as_o no_o nation_n that_o own_v the_o scripture_n ever_o do_v before_o the_o lord_n save_o we_o from_o our_o own_o heart_n but_o i_o will_v now_o prove_v the_o thesis_n as_o i_o say_v before_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n where_o there_o be_v many_o society_n of_o visible_a saint_n and_o true_a minister_n consent_v together_o to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n but_o in_o england_n there_o be_v many_o society_n of_o visible_a saint_n and_o true_a minister_n consent_v together_o to_o worship_n god_n in_o his_o holy_a ordinance_n ergo_fw-la in_o england_n there_o be_v many_o true_a visible_a church_n the_o major_n be_v so_o plain_a that_o none_o who_o know_v what_o a_o visible_a church_n be_v and_o what_o the_o church_n in_o the_o gospel_n be_v but_o must_v needs_o yield_v it_o here_o be_v the_o essential_a cause_n of_o a_o church_n ergo_fw-la here_o be_v a_o church_n first_o here_o be_v the_o material_a cause_n visible_a saint_n the_o minister_n also_o as_o visible_a saint_n help_v make_v up_o the_o matter_n but_o as_o they_o be_v minister_n they_o make_v the_o church_n organical_a which_o be_v more_o 2_o here_o be_v the_o formal_a cause_n their_o consent_n to_o worship_n god_n etc._n etc._n he_o that_o yield_v the_o essential_a cause_n and_o yet_o deny_v the_o effect_n have_v lose_v his_o reason_n a_o church_n be_v any_o company_n of_o saint_n in_o body_n to_o set_v up_o what_o ordinance_n of_o god_n they_o know_v this_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o here_o god_n dwell_v 8.1_o in_o hos_n 8.1_o say_v mr._n burrough_n he_o speak_v of_o a_o church_n as_o it_o be_v a_o homogeneal_a body_n but_o i_o go_v further_o the_o separatist_n indeed_o will_v catch_v hold_n of_o his_o definition_n as_o cyprian_n say_v the_o schismatic_n in_o his_o time_n do_v of_o that_o text_n in_o matth._n 18.20_o to_o which_o eh_n answer_v very_o well_o de_fw-fr unita_fw-la eccles_n and_o hence_o they_o will_v conclude_v we_o be_v saint_n in_o body_n ergo_fw-la we_o be_v true_a church_n but_o i_o pray_v be_v there_o not_o visible_a saint_n also_o in_o the_o church_n from_o which_o you_o irregular_o as_o i_o shall_v prove_v after_o do_v separate_v be_v they_o not_o as_o good_a as_o yourselves_o do_v not_o you_o attain_v to_o that_o visibility_n of_o saint-ship_n which_o you_o have_v while_o you_o be_v in_o those_o church_n do_v you_o set_v up_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n so_o far_o as_o you_o know_v or_o may_v know_v if_o error_n do_v not_o hinder_v as_o they_o do_v from_o who_o you_o have_v separate_v nay_o you_o can_v do_v it_o for_o you_o neither_o have_v man_n fit_a for_o office_n nor_o will_v you_o endure_v to_o come_v under_o officer_n and_o therefore_o if_o you_o look_v into_o the_o nine_o verse_n of_o the_o same_o chapter_n tertul._n faciunt_fw-la fave_n vespae_fw-la faciunt_fw-la ecclesias_fw-la marciovitae_n tertul._n you_o shall_v find_v mr._n burrough_n say_v that_o those_o who_o love_n to_o live_v without_o ordinance_n from_o under_o the_o government_n of_o christ_n be_v those_o that_o love_n to_o live_v in_o the_o wilderness_n his_o word_n may_v be_v apply_v to_o many_o of_o these_o separatist_n who_o call_v for_o separation_n from_o the_o word_n as_o well_o as_o to_o those_o who_o be_v in_o the_o world_n but_o to_o my_o argument_n all_o the_o quarrel_n will_v be_v about_o the_o minister_n 102._o the_o presbyterian_o speak_v the_o same_o language_n if_o the_o word_n in_o body_n please_v you_o the_o correlatum_fw-la of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n be_v a_o people_n embody_v in_o a_o church_n or_o a_o spiritual_a corporation_n gillesp_n aar_n rod._n 191._o iren._n p._n 102._o and_o the_o consent_v together_o etc._n etc._n as_o for_o mr._n burrough_n phrase_n there_o be_v in_o body_n this_o they_o like_v well_o but_o so_o be_v not_o those_o visible_a saint_n i_o mention_v say_v they_o but_o to_o take_v away_o that_o cavil_v and_o so_o to_o return_v to_o the_o minister_n you_o may_v know_v what_o mr._n b._n mean_n by_o be_v in_o body_n by_o show_v what_o make_v a_o church_n covenant_n say_v he_o i_o know_v nothing_o more_o be_v require_v but_o to_o manifest_v their_o assent_n to_o join_v with_o that_o body_n to_o set_v up_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n so_o far_o as_o they_o know_v and_o do_v not_o those_o visible_a saint_n actual_o manifest_v their_o assent_n by_o their_o continual_a attendance_n upon_o their_o officer_n in_o all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n and_o maintain_v their_o officer_n to_o that_o intent_n that_o they_o may_v have_v the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n set_v up_o among_o they_o shall_v the_o want_n of_o a_o adjunct_n null_n the_o church_n when_o as_o they_o do_v the_o very_a thing_n which_o they_o shall_v express_v put_v case_n you_o express_v your_o assent_n and_o do_v not_o the_o thing_n which_o you_o express_v your_o assent_n unto_o be_v you_o therefore_o a_o church_n because_o of_o your_o express_v your_o assent_n what_o then_o be_v those_o who_o do_v the_o thing_n though_o they_o do_v not_o express_v their_o assent_n in_o word_n but_o in_o act_n this_o be_v good_a and_o sufficient_a to_o prove_v the_o essence_n though_o both_o expression_n and_o do_v be_v better_a but_o of_o this_o more_o after_o but_o the_o minister_n be_v those_o who_o spoil_v all_o there_o be_v those_o who_o can_v deny_v there_o be_v ordinance_n but_o there_o be_v none_o to_o administer_v they_o and_o this_o be_v the_o reason_n which_o one_o of_o the_o chief_a member_n of_o a_o church_n in_o london_n who_o do_v use_v to_o prophesy_v as_o they_o call_v it_o in_o the_o absence_n or_o weariness_n of_o the_o pastor_n give_v to_o a_o honest_a man_n who_o be_v trouble_v because_o he_o fall_v off_o from_o the_o church_n and_o exercise_v his_o gift_n and_o turn_v seeker_n i_o name_v not_o the_o man_n nor_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v too_o true_a now_o suppose_v i_o can_v not_o prove_v the_o minister_n to_o be_v true_a minister_n yet_o those_o visible_a saint_n which_o i_o name_v before_o and_o those_o who_o you_o call_v presbyterian_o do_v meet_v together_o confer_v pray_v and_o fast_o together_o 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he_o can_v see_v more_o holy_a and_o able_a than_o himself_o and_o hence_o he_o fear_v himself_o and_o conceive_v such_o man_n be_v so_o holy_a and_o near_a to_o god_n i_o fear_v he_o may_v reveal_v that_o to_o they_o which_o he_o conceal_v from_o i_o now_o then_o if_o you_o can_v bring_v we_o man_n who_o express_v all_o these_o and_o walk_v true_o by_o these_o rule_n you_o shall_v not_o need_v to_o go_v to_o the_o state_n to_o get_v a_o act_n for_o toleration_n of_o tender_a conscience_n for_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o church_n will_v be_v very_o tender_a of_o such_o god_n seldom_o leave_v these_o to_o drink_v in_o any_o vile_a error_n if_o for_o a_o time_n they_o be_v mislead_v he_o will_v discover_v his_o mind_n to_o they_o ere_o long_o i_o be_o assure_v but_o alas_o how_o far_o be_v our_o people_n from_o these_o thing_n i_o do_v not_o rehearse_v they_o over_o again_o but_o either_o let_v these_o be_v disprove_v to_o be_v no_o rule_n to_o judge_v by_o or_o if_o they_o be_v there_o be_v not_o ten_o as_o i_o say_v of_o such_o scarce_o to_o be_v find_v in_o england_n who_o separate_v from_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n and_o have_v betake_v themselves_o to_o their_o private_a house_n yea_o if_o we_o go_v to_o our_o congregationall_a church_n and_o examine_v these_o who_o plead_v for_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n we_o shall_v hardly_o find_v these_o rule_n observe_v the_o sum_n be_v you_o see_v if_o indeed_o you_o be_v right_o conscientious_a man_n and_o lead_v by_o a_o pure_a conscience_n in_o the_o point_n wherein_o you_o differ_v you_o shall_v have_v that_o liberty_n that_o christ_n will_v have_v allow_v you_o and_o none_o will_v domineer_v over_o your_o conscience_n i_o know_v of_o nothing_o more_o can_v be_v allege_v but_o i_o think_v i_o have_v take_v in_o all_o that_o be_v bring_v against_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n it_o may_v be_v some_o will_v be_v apt_a to_o cast_v in_o this_o that_o the_o minister_n be_v no_o friend_n to_o the_o state_n ergo_fw-la etc._n etc._n i_o shall_v not_o stay_v to_o give_v any_o answer_n to_o this_o more_o than_o thus_o 1_o the_o separatist_n be_v before_o this_o government_n be_v erect_v to_o be_v sure_o the_o leaven_n of_o all_o be_v lay_v if_o not_o all_o actual_o separate_v 2_o where_o there_o be_v minister_n who_o be_v friend_n to_o the_o state_n it_o be_v all_o one_o for_o they_o separate_v for_o all_o that_o 3_o matter_n of_o state_n differ_v from_o the_o church_n matter_n and_o they_o be_v also_o very_o intricate_a and_o dark_a especial_o as_o some_o conceive_v the_o covenant_n and_o protestation_n have_v be_v take_v before_o therefore_o in_o intricate_a thing_n more_o time_n shall_v have_v be_v give_v till_o you_o have_v see_v god_n tie_v a_o knot_n upon_o thing_n 4_o i_o know_v that_o many_o minister_n have_v not_o hang_v off_o so_o from_o the_o state_n but_o that_o they_o see_v such_o separatist_n to_o be_v wink_v at_o they_o think_v too_o much_o obj._n but_o you_o will_v say_v grant_v all_o this_o that_o their_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a why_o can_v you_o go_v on_o in_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n set_v up_o discipline_n etc._n etc._n and_o let_v these_o alone_a how_o do_v these_o hinder_v your_o work_n from_o go_v on_o comfortable_o ans_fw-fr if_o their_o ground_n be_v insufficient_a schism_n schism_n be_v esteem_v a_o great_a evil_n in_o the_o apostle_n time_n those_o little_a matter_n in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n not_o comparable_a to_o we_o how_o do_v the_o apostle_n speak_v against_o they_o so_o in_o the_o age_n after_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o august_n contra_fw-la permeni_n etc._n etc._n irenae_n say_v nulla_fw-la ab_fw-la eye_n tanta_fw-la fieri_fw-la potest_fw-la correptio_fw-la quanta_fw-la est_fw-la schismitis_fw-la pernicies_fw-la l._n 4._o c._n 26._o so_o our_o divine_n of_o late_a against_o the_o papist_n to_o prove_v they_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o schism_n have_v labour_v strong_o but_o out_v do_v but_o fancy_n ground_n and_o make_v a_o tush_o at_o schism_n then_o why_o do_v they_o not_o come_v back_o again_o to_o the_o church_n from_o which_o they_o have_v depart_v but_o before_o i_o give_v the_o answer_n let_v these_o thing_n be_v observe_v 1_o few_o of_o these_o who_o have_v any_o true_a good_a in_o they_o but_o must_v and_o have_v acknowledge_v they_o have_v receive_v it_o from_o the_o minister_n yea_o in_o those_o time_n when_o there_o be_v much_o more_o corruption_n in_o the_o church_n then_o now_o 2_o since_o they_o have_v leave_v their_o minister_n they_o have_v get_v nothing_o many_o lose_v the_o savour_n once_o they_o have_v and_o some_o their_o comfort_n that_o be_v true_a and_o some_o of_o these_o i_o know_v have_v come_v home_o again_o general_o they_o run_v out_o of_o one_o error_n into_o another_o that_o be_v their_o thrive_a 3_o i_o never_o hear_v of_o one_o true_a convert_n that_o be_v ever_o bring_v home_o to_o god_n among_o they_o all_o indeed_o the_o principle_n they_o maintain_v will_v not_o stand_v with_o sound_a conversion_n for_o no_o law_n must_v be_v to_o awaken_v man_n and_o show_v they_o their_o vile_a condition_n natural_o work_n of_o faith_n be_v easy_a teach_v no_o duty_n but_o all_o christ_n as_o if_o man_n can_v true_o teach_v christ_n and_o no_o duty_n these_o thing_n speak_v enough_o against_o they_o but_o i_o answer_v further_o if_o the_o classical_a and_o congregationall_a man_n will_v but_o join_v together_o as_o they_o may_v if_o they_o will_v and_o set_v upon_o that_o work_n they_o may_v do_v something_o notwithstanding_o these_o person_n but_o yet_o they_o can_v comfortable_o hold_v so_o long_o as_o these_o be_v tolerate_v quest_n why_o what_o harm_n have_v these_o do_v or_o will_v they_o do_v ans_fw-fr i_o shall_v tell_v you_o under_o several_a particular_n 1_o they_o have_v much_o weaken_v the_o hand_n of_o the_o ministry_n in_o the_o work_n they_o be_v once_o the_o joy_n of_o their_o minister_n their_o crown_n and_o have_v they_o hold_v close_o to_o they_o still_o hold_v up_o their_o old_a principle_n and_o walk_v reverent_o they_o have_v very_o much_o comfort_v their_o heart_n and_o strengthen_v their_o hand_n now_o they_o come_v to_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n they_o can_v in_o time_n of_o persecution_n when_o ceremony_n and_o such_o trash_n abound_v cleave_v to_o they_o and_o to_o those_o who_o be_v silence_v they_o be_v a_o comfort_n but_o now_o those_o who_o shall_v have_v join_v with_o their_o minister_n and_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n with_o joint_a prayer_n they_o be_v go_v cyprian_n compare_v the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n 11.30_o de_fw-fr unitâ_fw-la eccles_n 1_o king_n 11.30_o to_o christ_n garment_n which_o have_v no_o seam_n nor_o be_v divide_v schism_n he_o compare_v to_o the_o garment_n which_o abijah_n rend_v in_o twelve_o piece_n that_o be_v not_o good_a for_o salomon_n house_n how_o do_v it_o weaken_v the_o nation_n thus_o have_v these_o rending_n weaken_v our_o church_n exceed_o vis_fw-fr unita_fw-la fortior_fw-la 2_o they_o be_v now_o turn_v the_o great_a persecutor_n the_o minister_n have_v for_o tongue_n persecution_n it_o be_v wheel_v about_o and_o reside_v in_o this_o generation_n puritan_n precisian_n be_v the_o old_a term_n but_o now_o the_o term_n be_v baals-priest_n anti-christians_a priest_n and_o blackcoat_n be_v the_o sober_a term_n beside_o other_o jeer_n and_o scoff_n nay_o yet_o worse_o many_o of_o these_o will_v have_v the_o minister_n utter_o root_v up_o we_o hear_v of_o a_o petition_n draw_v up_o by_o some_o of_o they_o to_o be_v present_v to_o the_o house_n for_o that_o end_n they_o have_v threaten_v we_o what_o they_o will_v do_v and_o i_o doubt_v not_o if_o the_o state_n will_v give_v they_o their_o will_n this_o shall_v be_v their_o first_o vote_n down_o with_o the_o ministry_n so_o that_o all_o the_o old_a persecutor_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o these_o they_o will_v have_v some_o down_o but_o honour_v the_o call_n these_o will_v cut_v down_o all_o 3_o they_o be_v the_o nursery_n of_o all_o error_n and_o heresy_n where_o be_v there_o one_o society_n that_o be_v not_o taint_v who_o can_v tell_v how_o gross_a they_o be_v tho_o we_o know_v many_o gross_a enough_o for_o they_o meet_v in_o private_a house_n who_o can_v tell_v what_o they_o vent_v there_o but_o if_o they_o get_v into_o pulpit_n than_o they_o will_v vent_v something_o and_o thence_o we_o may_v guess_v of_o the_o rest_n some_o of_o they_o have_v speak_v a_o against_o the_o scripture_n yet_o some_o again_o will_v have_v the_o apocrypha_fw-la to_o be_v canonical_a as_o a_o company_n of_o anabaptist_n spend_v the_o afternoon_n of_o a_o lord_n day_n to_o prove_v the_o apocrypha_fw-la to_o be_v so_o the_o london_n minister_n have_v set_v down_o some_o bad_a enough_o in_o their_o

the_o people_n be_v but_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n to_o reject_v i.e._n excommunicate_v a_o ossicer_n will_v cost_v more_o to_o prove_v have_v reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v alive_a and_o see_v what_o work_v church-member_n make_v here_o in_o england_n in_o very_a many_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v have_v cause_v he_o to_o bethink_v himself_o again_o of_o the_o people_n power_n something_o we_o hear_v of_o be_v do_v in_o a_o church_n not_o far_o from_o the_o place_n where_o he_o live_v it_o can_v be_v keep_v close_o the_o light_n of_o that_o fire_n shine_v into_o england_n for_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o such_o a_o officer_n when_o there_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n to_o join_v with_o they_o to_o excommunicate_v he_o this_o be_v not_o deny_v for_o by_o their_o subjection_n to_o he_o they_o make_v he_o their_o officer_n that_o be_v some_o part_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n again_o but_o for_o excommunication_n mr._n cotton_n say_v it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n in_o the_o church_n 16_o key_n p._n 16_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n mr._n burrough_n say_v 51._o iren._n 51._o if_o the_o church_n be_v without_o officer_n they_o can_v do_v that_o which_o belong_v to_o officer_n to_o do_v they_o have_v no_o sacrament_n among_o they_o neither_o can_v they_o have_v any_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o only_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o withdraw_v from_o such_o as_o walk_v disorderly_a for_o their_o own_o preservation_n so_o then_o here_o be_v a_o way_n for_o the_o people_n to_o preserve_v themselves_o though_o they_o can_v excommunicate_v and_o those_o text_n which_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n bring_v matth._n 7.15_o and_o phil._n 3.2_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o church_n as_o a_o homogencal_a body_n to_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v their_o officer_n though_o they_o may_v prove_v withdraw_v as_o also_o rom._n 16.17_o may_v prove_v it_o for_o the_o reason_n of_o his_o consequence_n that_o staple_n rule_n ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la instituere_fw-la destituere_fw-la this_o maxim_n be_v turn_v every_o way_n sometime_o to_o prove_v the_o people_n may_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n because_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la the_o people_n in_o election_n put_v forth_o no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o they_o may_v put_v forth_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o excommunication_n that_o there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o election_n doctor_n ames_n acknowledge_v ovas_n rationales_fw-la possunt_fw-la eligere_fw-la sibi_fw-la pastorem_fw-la sicut_fw-la sponsa_fw-la eligit_fw-la sibisponsum_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la jurisdictionem_fw-la aut_fw-la gubernationem_fw-la sed_fw-la potius_fw-la per_fw-la subjectionem_fw-la in_o the_o answer_n before_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o and_o elsewhere_o now_o what_o argue_v be_v this_o 13._o bellar._n enter_fw-mi to_o 2_o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 19_o ib._n s._n 13._o to_o argue_v from_o subjection_n to_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v no_o authority_n in_o election_n for_o electio_fw-la non_fw-la cogit_fw-la yet_o there_o be_v more_o power_n see_v in_o civil_a election_n than_o church-election_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v afterward_o but_o in_o excommunication_n authority_n appear_v that_o also_o be_v deny_v that_o the_o people_n do_v instituere_fw-la in_o constitute_v chruche_n and_o ordinary_o what_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n be_v no_o ordinary_a rule_n here_o the_o maxim_n be_v turn_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o may_v jnstituere_fw-la because_o they_o can_v destituere_fw-la but_o that_o will_v be_v deny_v unless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o sense_n before_o mention_v i._n e._n in_o what_o manner_n and_o how_o far_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la i.e._n by_o a_o subjection_n to_o be_v their_o officer_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o he_o and_o not_o own_v he_o to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v more_o quest_n but_o suppose_v this_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o fraternity_n can_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n but_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n they_o may_v you_o say_v and_o so_o he_o cease_v to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o what_o be_v he_o now_o a_o officer_n to_o other_o church_n a._n if_o the_o withdraw_a their_o subjection_n and_o reject_v be_v irregular_a then_o though_o they_o make_v he_o not_o their_o officer_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la which_o he_o be_v still_o the_o jure_fw-la yet_o his_o relation_n to_o the_o church-catholick_n visible_a do_v still_o hold_v and_o another_o church_n give_v he_o a_o call_v he_o have_v then_o power_n actu_fw-la secund●_n to_o administer_v the_o ordinance_n there_o for_o instance_n the_o separatist_n cast_v off_o he_o who_o before_o they_o choose_v for_o their_o officer_n suppose_v now_o unless_o he_o will_v renounce_v his_o ordination_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n do_v he_o therefore_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n how_o bufie_v some_o congregationall_a church_n be_v in_o withdraw_a from_o their_o officer_n it_o be_v too_o manifest_a and_o many_o go_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n some_o turn_v seeker_n andif_a all_o the_o member_n do_v thus_o do_v they_o now_o cease_v to_o be_v minister_n 2_o but_o if_o the_o withdraw_a be_v regular_a the_o cause_n just_a try_v etc._n etc._n then_o that_o which_o be_v sufficient_a ground_n for_o their_o withdraw_a from_o he_o be_v just_a cause_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v excommunicate_v be_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a or_o heretical_a as_o mr._n hooker_n suppose_v if_o then_o the_o case_n of_o a_o church_n be_v so_o as_o they_o be_v cast_v by_o providence_n into_o some_o remote_a place_n where_o be_v no_o church_n beside_o to_o combine_v with_o then_o as_o their_o election_n of_o he_o etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v before_o may_v supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n so_o this_o withdraw_a in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v be_v analogum_fw-la to_o excommunication_n but_o say_v our_o divine_n if_o that_o church_n be_v in_o combination_n with_o other_o church_n as_o now_o under_o a_o classis_fw-la than_o the_o people_n shall_v not_o need_v to_o stay_v there_o in_o their_o withdraw_a but_o the_o case_n be_v judge_v and_o try_v by_o the_o classis_fw-la they_o as_o they_o ordain_v he_o when_o the_o people_n elect_v he_o the_o people_n consent_v do_v excommunicate_v he_o then_o as_o a_o man_n cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n visible_a so_o he_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o officer_n to_o this_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o minister_n to_o the_o church-catholicke_a visible_a for_o the_o other_o argument_n 78_o burro_fw-la iren_n p._n 50_o nort._n resp_n ad_fw-la apoll._n p._n 76_o 78_o the_o people_n convey_v of_o power_n to_o a_o officer_n i_o know_v of_o no_o power_n the_o people_n convey_v only_o a_o designation_n of_o such_o a_o person_n to_o officiate_v in_o this_o or_o that_o society_n but_o their_o power_n they_o receive_v from_o christ_n immediate_o as_o our_o congregationall_a man_n affirm_v and_o hence_o they_o act_v in_o his_o name_n not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n 5_o the_o last_o answer_n i_o will_v give_v to_o this_o proposal_n be_v this_o if_o you_o conceive_v this_o to_o be_v the_o only_a way_n of_o reformation_n than_o you_o must_v give_v the_o minister_n strong_a proof_n that_o you_o may_v ordain_v the_o minister_n will_v as_o much_o question_n your_o power_n to_o ordain_v as_o you_o question_v the_o bishop_n power_n so_o that_o we_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v this_o because_o you_o be_v so_o punctual_a you_o say_v for_o reform_v by_o the_o word_n but_o of_o this_o practice_n i_o much_o doubt_n 1_o my_o ground_n be_v because_o i_o find_v not_o one_o jota_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n obj._n though_o you_o do_v not_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n yet_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n there_o be_v numb_a 8.10_o a._n that_o place_n be_v the_o only_a resuge_n but_o 1_o it_o be_v common_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v no_o fair_a argue_v to_o go_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o one_o thing_n we_o will_v have_v and_o when_o another_o come_v to_o the_o same_o polity_n for_o a_o argument_n for_o their_o turn_n now_o to_o debar_v they_o and_o tell_v they_o this_o be_v the_o old_a polity_n either_o leave_n out_o the_o jewish_a polity_n altogether_o or_o else_o give_v other_o leave_v to_o fetch_v argument_n from_o thence_o as_o well_o as_o yourselves_o 2_o if_o you_o will_v go_v to_o that_o polity_n why_o may_v i_o not_o as_o well_o prove_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v ordain_v as_o well_o as_o moses_n do_v aaron_n levit._n 8._o 3_o but_o in_o that_o church_n at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v officer_n aaron_z and_o his_o son_n thence_o if_o that_o be_v a_o rule_n it_o must_v follow_v