Selected quad for the lemma: saint_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
saint_n	intercession_n	mediator_n	redemption_n	1,722	5	9.9845	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A61552	The doctrines and practices of the Church of Rome truly represented in answer to a book intituled, A papist misrepresented, and represented, &c.	Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699.	1686 (1686)	Wing S5590; ESTC R21928	99,480	174

clear_a state_v this_o controversy_n these_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v premise_v 1._o we_o do_v not_o charge_v they_o that_o they_o make_v god_n of_o dead_a man_n i._n e._n that_o they_o believe_v the_o saint_n to_o be_v independent_a deity_n for_o this_o our_o author_n confess_v be_v a_o ●ost_o damnable_a idolatry_n 2._o we_o do_v not_o say_v that_o the_o state_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n with_o respect_n to_o the_o worship_n of_o dead_a man_n be_v as_o bad_a as_o heathenism_n for_o we_o acknowledge_v the_o true_a saint_n and_o martyr_n to_o have_v be_v not_o only_o good_a and_o virtuous_a but_o extraordinary_a person_n in_o great_a favour_n with_o god_n and_o high_o deserve_v our_o esteem_n and_o reverence_n as_o well_o as_o imitation_n whereas_o the_o heathen_a deify_v man_n be_v vile_a and_o wicked_a man_n and_o deserve_v not_o the_o common_a esteem_n of_o mankind_n according_a to_o the_o account_n themselves_o give_v of_o they_o and_o we_o own_o the_o common_a doctrine_n and_o advantage_n of_o christianity_n to_o be_v preserve_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 3._o we_o do_v not_o deny_v that_o they_o do_v allow_v some_o external_a act_n of_o worship_n to_o be_v so_o proper_a to_o god_n alone_o that_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v give_v to_o none_o else_o beside_o he_o and_o this_o they_o call_v latria_n and_o we_o shall_v never_o dispute_v with_o they_o about_o the_o proper_a signification_n of_o a_o word_n when_o the_o sense_n be_v agree_v unless_o they_o draw_v inference_n from_o it_o which_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v allow_v to_o this_o latria_n they_o refer_v not_o only_a sacrifice_n but_o all_o that_o relate_v to_o it_o as_o temple_n altar_n and_o priest_n so_o that_o by_o their_o own_o confession_n to_o make_v these_o immediate_o and_o proper_o to_o the_o honour_n of_o any_o saint_n be_v to_o make_v a_o god_n of_o that_o saint_n and_o to_o commit_v idolatry_n 4._o they_o confess_v that_o to_o pray_v to_o saint_n to_o bestow_v spiritual_a or_o temporal_a gift_n upon_o we_o be_v to_o give_v to_o they_o the_o worship_n proper_a to_o god_n who_o be_v the_o only_a giver_n of_o all_o good_a thing_n for_o else_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v why_o they_o shall_v take_v so_o much_o pain_n to_o let_v we_o know_v that_o whatever_o the_o form_n of_o their_o prayer_n and_o hymn_n be_v yet_o the_o intention_n and_o spirit_n of_o the_o church_n be_v only_o to_o desire_v they_o to_o pray_v for_o we_o and_o to_o obtain_v thing_n for_o we_o by_o their_o intercession_n with_o god_n but_o two_o thing_n can_v be_v deny_v by_o they_o 1._o that_o they_o do_v use_v solemn_a invocation_n of_o saint_n in_o place_n of_o divine_a worship_n at_o the_o same_o time_n they_o make_v their_o address_n to_o god_n himself_o withal_o the_o circumstance_n of_o external_n adoration_n with_o bend_a knee_n and_o eye_n lift_v up_o to_o heaven_n and_o that_o this_o practice_n be_v according_a to_o the_o council_n trent_n which_o not_o only_o decree_v a_o humble_a invocation_n of_o they_o but_o declare_v it_o to_o be_v impiety_n 25._o to_o condemn_v mental_a and_o vocal_a supplication_n to_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n 2._o that_o they_o do_v own_o make_v the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n to_o be_v their_o mediator_n of_o intercession_n but_o not_o of_o redemption_n although_o christ_n be_v our_o mediator_n in_o both_o sense_n and_o upon_o these_o two_o point_n this_o controversy_n depend_v let_v we_o now_o see_v what_o our_o representer_n say_v to_o they_o 1._o his_o church_n teach_v he_o indeed_o and_o he_o believe_v that_o it_o be_v good_a and_o profitable_a to_o desire_v the_o intercession_n of_o the_o saint_n reign_v with_o christ_n in_o heaven_n but_o that_o they_o be_v either_o 4._o god_n or_o his_o redeemer_n he_o be_v no_o where_o teach_v but_o detest_v all_o such_o doctrine_n there_o be_v two_o way_n of_o desire_v the_o intercession_n of_o other_o for_o we_o 1._o by_o way_n of_o friendly_a request_n as_o a_o act_n of_o mutual_a charity_n and_o so_o no_o doubt_n we_o may_v desire_v other_o here_o on_o earth_n to_o pray_v for_o we_o 2._o by_o way_n of_o humble_a supplication_n with_o all_o the_o external_a act_n of_o adoration_n and_o we_o can_v think_v s._n peter_n or_o s._n paul_n who_o refuse_v any_o thing_n like_o adoration_n from_o man_n will_v have_v be_v please_v to_o have_v see_v man_n fall_v down_o upon_o their_o knee_n before_o they_o and_o in_o the_o same_o posture_n of_o devotion_n in_o which_o they_o be_v pray_v to_o almighty_a god_n to_o put_v their_o name_n into_o the_o middle_n of_o their_o litany_n and_o so_o pray_v they_o then_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o but_o how_o be_v we_o sure_a that_o their_o church_n teach_v no_o more_o than_o this_o i_o have_v read_v over_o and_o over_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o the_o roman_a catechism_n about_o it_o and_o i_o can_v find_v no_o such_o limitation_n of_o their_o sense_n there_o where_o if_o if_o any_o where_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v find_v the_o council_n of_o trent_n mention_n both_o the_o prayer_n and_o the_o help_n and_o assistance_n of_o the_o saint_n which_o they_o be_v to_o fly_v to_o if_o this_o help_n and_o assistance_n be_v no_o more_o than_o their_o prayer_n why_o be_v it_o mention_v as_o distinct_a why_o be_v their_o reign_v together_o with_o christ_n in_o heaven_n speak_v of_o but_o to_o let_v we_o understand_v they_o have_v a_o power_n to_o help_n and_o assist_v for_o what_o be_v their_o reign_v to_o their_o pray_v for_o we_o but_o i_o have_v a_o further_a argument_n to_o prove_v the_o council_n mean_v more_o viz._n the_o council_n know_v the_o common_a practice_n and_o form_n of_o invocation_n then_o use_v and_o allow_v and_o the_o general_a opinion_n that_o the_o saint_n have_v power_n to_o help_n and_o assist_v those_o who_o pray_v to_o they_o if_o the_o council_n do_v not_o approve_v this_o why_o do_v it_o insert_v the_o very_a word_n upon_o which_o that_o practice_n be_v ground_v they_o likewise_o very_o well_o know_v the_o complaint_n which_o have_v be_v make_v of_o these_o thing_n and_o some_o of_o their_o own_o communion_n cry_v shame_n upon_o some_o of_o their_o hymn_n wicclius_fw-la abusuum_fw-la say_v one_o of_o they_o salve_fw-la regina_fw-la etc._n etc._n be_v full_a of_o downright_a impiety_n and_o horrible_a superstition_n and_o that_o other_o be_v whole_o inexcusable_a lud._n vives_n have_v say_v 27._o he_o find_v little_a difference_n in_o the_o people_n opinion_n of_o their_o saint_n in_o many_o thing_n from_o what_o the_o heathen_n have_v of_o their_o go_n these_o thing_n be_v know_v and_o it_o be_v in_o their_o power_n to_o have_v redress_v they_o by_o declare_v what_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o council_n be_v and_o that_o whatever_o form_n be_v use_v no_o more_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v by_o they_o but_o pray_v to_o they_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o beside_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n in_o the_o very_a same_o session_n take_v care_n about_o reform_v the_o missal_n and_o breviary_n why_o be_v no_o care_n take_v to_o reform_v these_o prayer_n and_o hymn_n which_o they_o say_v be_v not_o to_o be_v construe_v by_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n but_o by_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v time_n enough_o take_v for_o do_v it_o for_o the_o reform_a missal_n be_v not_o publish_v till_o six_o year_n after_o the_o council_n nor_o the_o breviary_n till_o four_o in_o all_o that_o time_n the_o prayer_n and_o hymn_n may_v easy_o have_v be_v alter_v to_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n if_o that_o be_v true_o so_o but_o instead_o of_o that_o a_o very_a late_a french_a writer_n cry_v out_o of_o the_o necessity_n of_o reform_v the_o breviaries_n as_o to_o these_o thing_n wherein_o he_o 165._o confess_v many_o hymn_n be_v still_o remain_v wherein_o those_o thing_n be_v ask_v of_o saint_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v ask_v of_o god_n alone_o as_o be_v deliver_v from_o the_o chain_n of_o our_o sin_n be_v preserve_v from_o spiritual_a malady_n and_o hell_n fire_n be_v inflame_v with_o charity_n and_o make_v fit_a for_o heaven_n in_o good_a conscience_n say_v he_o be_v not_o this_o join_v the_o saint_n with_o god_n himself_o to_o ask_v those_o thing_n of_o they_o which_o god_n alone_o can_v give_v and_o whatever_o man_n talk_v of_o the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n he_o confess_v the_o very_a form_n and_o natural_a sense_n of_o the_o word_n do_v raise_v another_o idea_n in_o man_n mind_n which_o ought_v to_o be_v prevent_v but_o do_v not_o the_o roman_a catechism_n explain_v this_o to_o be_v the_o sense_n of_o the_o church_n i_o have_v examine_v that_o too_o with_o all_o the_o care_n i_o can_v about_o this_o matter_n and_o i_o can_v find_v any_o necessity_n from_o thence_o of_o put_v this_o sense_n upon_o they_o i_o

grant_v in_o one_o place_n where_o it_o explain_v the_o difference_n of_o the_o invocation_n of_o god_n and_o saint_n it_o say_v we_o be_v to_o pray_v to_o god_n as_o the_o giver_n and_o to_o 3._o saint_n that_o they_o will_v obtain_v thing_n of_o god_n for_o we_o and_o than_o it_o add_v the_o form_n differ_v that_o to_o god_n be_v miserere_fw-la nobis_fw-la and_o audi_fw-la nos_fw-la that_o to_o saint_n be_v ora_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la very_o well_o and_o be_v there_o then_o no_o other_o form_n own_a or_o allow_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o saint_n beside_o this_o hold_v a_o little_a say_v the_o catechism_n for_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o make_v use_n of_o another_o form_n and_o that_o be_v we_o may_v pray_v to_o saint_n too_o ut_fw-la nostri_fw-la misereantur_fw-la and_o how_o do_v this_o now_o differ_v from_o that_o to_o god_n but_o only_o in_o number_n but_o it_o add_v that_o the_o saint_n be_v very_o pitiful_a then_o sure_o we_o be_v encourage_v to_o pray_v to_o they_o for_o help_n and_o pity_n yes_o say_v the_o catechism_n we_o may_v pray_v to_o they_o that_o be_v move_v with_o pity_n towards_o we_o they_o will_v help_v we_o with_o their_o favour_n and_o intercession_n with_o god_n but_o yet_o this_o do_v not_o clear_a the_o matter_n for_o elsewhere_o the_o roman_a catechism_n attribute_n more_o to_o saint_n than_o mere_a intercession_n and_o we_o may_v pray_v to_o they_o for_o what_o be_v in_o their_o power_n for_o where_o it_o undertake_v to_o give_v a_o exact_a account_n of_o the_o autem_fw-la reason_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o angel_n it_o there_o parallel_v they_o with_o magistrate_n under_o a_o king_n and_o say_v they_o be_v god_n minister_n in_o govern_v the_o church_n invocandi_fw-la itaque_fw-la sunt_fw-la quod_fw-la &_o perpetuo_fw-la deum_fw-la intuentur_fw-la &_o patrocinium_fw-la salutis_fw-la nostrae_fw-la libentissime_fw-la suscipiunt_fw-la what_o be_v this_o patrocinium_fw-la falutis_fw-la nostrae_fw-la be_v it_o only_o pray_v and_o intercession_n with_o god_n that_o can_v be_v for_o it_o instance_n present_o in_o deliverance_n by_o angel_n and_o jacob_n be_v pray_v to_o the_o angel_n to_o bless_v he_o and_o not_o mere_o to_o intercede_v for_o he_o but_o though_o this_o be_v speak_v of_o angel_n yet_o from_o hence_o it_o infer_v the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n too_o but_o what_o need_v we_o insist_v more_o on_o this_o since_o they_o do_v own_o the_o ministry_n of_o saint_n as_o well_o as_o angel_n with_o respect_n to_o the_o church_n and_o do_v canonize_v saint_n for_o particular_a country_n as_o late_o s._n rosa_n for_o peru._n and_o where_o there_o be_v such_o a_o particular_a protection_n suppose_v what_o incongruity_n be_v it_o to_o interpret_v the_o form_n of_o their_o prayer_n according_a to_o a_o doctrine_n so_o receive_v and_o allow_v but_o of_o this_o more_o under_o the_o next_o head_n 2._o he_o confess_v that_o we_o be_v all_o redeem_v by_o the_o blood_n of_o christ_n alone_o and_o that_o he_o be_v our_o only_a mediator_n of_o redemption_n but_o as_o for_o mediator_n of_o intercession_n he_o do_v not_o doubt_n but_o it_o be_v acceptable_a with_o god_n we_o shall_v have_v many_o i_o will_v ask_v concern_v this_o distinction_n the_o question_n which_o christ_n ask_v concern_v john_n baptism_n be_v it_o from_o heaven_n or_o of_o man_n no_o doubt_n there_o may_v be_v such_o a_o distinction_n of_o mediator_n if_o god_n please_v to_o make_v they_o but_o who_o have_v authority_n to_o appoint_v mediator_n with_o he_o beside_o himself_o be_v it_o not_o usurp_v his_o prerogative_n to_o appoint_v the_o great_a officer_n of_o his_o kingdom_n for_o he_o will_v any_o prince_n upon_o earth_n allow_v this_o viz._n when_o he_o have_v absolute_o declare_v his_o pleasure_n that_o his_o own_o son_n shall_v present_v petition_n to_o he_o that_o other_o shall_v take_v upon_o they_o to_o set_v up_o master_n of_o request_n themselves_o can_v any_o thing_n be_v plain_a in_o the_o new_a testament_n than_o that_o god_n have_v appoint_v the_o mediator_n of_o redemption_n to_o be_v our_o mediator_n of_o intercession_n 1._o and_o that_o his_o intercession_n be_v found_v upon_o his_o redemption_n as_o the_o high_a priest_n go_v into_o the_o holy_a of_o holies_n to_o intercede_v for_o the_o people_n be_v upon_o the_o blood_n of_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o expiation_n which_o he_o carry_v in_o with_o he_o if_o there_o be_v no_o revelation_n in_o this_o matter_n there_o may_v be_v some_o reason_n for_o it_o but_o since_o the_o revelation_n be_v so_o clear_a in_o it_o this_o distinction_n look_v just_a like_o the_o socinian_o distinction_n of_o a_o god_n by_o nature_n and_o a_o god_n by_o office_n which_o be_v frame_v on_o purpose_n to_o avoid_v the_o plain_a text_n of_o scripture_n which_o call_v christ_n god_n so_o do_v this_o look_n as_o if_o it_o be_v intend_v to_o avoid_v that_o clear_a text_n which_o say_v there_o be_v but_o one_o mediator_n between_o 5._o god_n and_o man_n the_o man_n christ_n jesus_n which_o be_v present_o answer_v with_o this_o distinction_n although_o there_o ●e_v not_o the_o least_o ground_n in_o that_o or_o any_o other_o text_n for_o it_o yes_o say_v our_o author_n moses_n be_v such_o a_o mediator_n for_o the_o israelite_n job_n for_o his_o three_o friend_n stephen_n for_o his_o persecutor_n the_o roman_n be_v desire_v by_o s._n paul_n to_o be_v his_o mediator_n and_o the_o corinthian_n and_o ephesian_n so_o almost_o every_o sick_a person_n desire_v the_o congregation_n to_o be_v his_o mediator_n that_o be_v to_o be_v remember_v in_o their_o prayer_n p._n 4_o 5._o but_o be_v there_o no_o difference_n between_o man_n pray_v for_o one_o another_o and_o desire_v other_o to_o pray_v for_o they_o here_o on_o earth_n and_o a_o humble_a invocation_n of_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n to_o be_v our_o mediator_n of_o intercession_n with_o god_n there_o there_o be_v a_o threefold_a disparity_n in_o the_o case_n 1._o here_o upon_o earth_n we_o converse_v with_o one_o another_o as_o fellow-creature_n and_o there_o be_v no_o danger_n of_o our_o have_v a_o opinion_n thereby_o that_o we_o be_v able_a to_o assist_v one_o another_o any_o other_o way_n than_o by_o our_o prayer_n but_o the_o case_n be_v very_o different_a as_o to_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n who_o by_o be_v address_v to_o there_o by_o such_o solemn_a invocation_n may_v too_o easy_o be_v conceive_v to_o have_v the_o power_n of_o bestow_v such_o blessing_n upon_o those_o who_o call_v upon_o they_o 2._o heaven_n be_v look_v on_o by_o all_o mankind_n who_o direct_v their_o devotion_n thither_o as_o the_o particular_a throne_n of_o god_n where_o he_o dwell_v and_o discover_v himself_o after_o another_o manner_n than_o he_o do_v upon_o the_o earth_n and_o we_o be_v direct_v to_o pray_v to_o our_o father_n in_o heaven_n where_o he_o be_v represent_v as_o infinite_o above_o all_o his_o creature_n and_o the_o great_a concernment_n of_o religion_n be_v to_o keep_v up_o the_o apprehension_n of_o this_o distance_n between_o he_o and_o they_o now_o it_o be_v hardly_o possible_a to_o keep_v it_o up_o if_o in_o the_o public_a office_n of_o religion_n in_o the_o solemne_v posture_n of_o devotion_n with_o eye_n lift_v up_o to_o heaven_n they_o do_v make_v address_n both_o to_o god_n and_o to_o his_o creature_n 3._o man_n be_v sure_a when_o they_o pray_v to_o other_o on_o earth_n to_o pray_v for_o they_o that_o they_o do_v no_o more_o than_o they_o can_v justify_v in_o point_n of_o discretion_n when_o they_o speak_v or_o write_v to_o those_o that_o can_v understand_v what_o their_o desire_n be_v but_o no_o man_n on_o earth_n can_v be_v certain_a that_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n can_v do_v it_o for_o it_o be_v agree_v they_o can_v do_v it_o without_o revelation_n and_o no_o man_n can_v be_v assure_v there_o be_v a_o revelation_n and_o it_o be_v not_o reasonable_a to_o expect_v it_o for_o they_o pray_v to_o saint_n to_o pray_v to_o god_n for_o they_o and_o they_o can_v tell_v what_o they_o pray_v for_o unless_o god_n to_o who_o they_o be_v to_o prav_fw-mi reveal_v to_o they_o what_o it_o be_v they_o must_v pray_v to_o he_o for_o be_v it_o not_o then_o the_o better_a the_o safe_a the_o wise_a way_n to_o make_v our_o prayer_n to_o he_o who_o we_o be_v sure_o be_v able_a to_o hear_v and_o help_v we_o and_o have_v promise_v to_o grant_v what_o we_o ask_v in_o his_o son_n name_n but_o there_o be_v no_o other_o name_n either_o under_o heaven_n or_o in_o heaven_n whereby_o we_o can_v be_v save_v or_o our_o prayer_n accept_v but_o his_o alone_a but_o our_o author_n say_v it_o be_v no_o part_n of_o his_o faith_n how_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n know_v the_o prayer_n and_o necessity_n of_o such_o who_o address_v themselves_o to_o they_o p._n 5._o but_o how_o