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A61552 The doctrines and practices of the Church of Rome truly represented in answer to a book intituled, A papist misrepresented, and represented, &c. Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699. 1686 (1686) Wing S5590; ESTC R21928 99,480 174

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clear stating this Controversy these things are to be premised 1. We do not charge them that they make Gods of dead Men i. e. that they believe the Saints to be Independent Deities For this our Author confesses were a ●ost damnable Idolatry 2. We do not say that the State of the Church of Rome with respect to the Worship of dead Men is as bad as Heathenism For we acknowledg the true Saints and Martyrs to have been not only Good and Vertuous but extraordinary Persons in great Favour with God and highly deserving our Esteem and Reverence as well as Imitation whereas the Heathen Deified Men were vile and wicked Men and deserved not the common Esteem of Mankind according to the Accounts themselves give of them And we own the common Doctrine and Advantages of Christianity to be preserved in the Church of Rome 3. We do not deny that they do allow some external Acts of Worship to be so proper to God alone that they ought to be given to none else besides him And this they call Latria and we shall never dispute with them about the proper signification of a Word when the Sense is agreed unless they draw Inferences from it which ought not to be allowed To this Latria they refer not only Sacrifice but all that relates to it as Temples Altars and Priests so that by their own Confession to make these immediately and properly to the Honour of any Saint is to make a God of that Saint and to commit Idolatry 4. They confess that to pray to Saints to bestow Spiritual or Temporal Gifts upon us were to give to them the Worship proper to God who is the only Giver of all good things For else I do not understand why they should take so much pains to let us know that whatever the Forms of their Prayers and Hymns are yet the Intention and Spirit of the Church is only to desire them to pray for us and to obtain things for us by their Intercession with God But two things cannot be denied by them 1. That they do use solemn Invocation of Saints in Places of Divine Worship at the same time they make their Addresses to God himself withal the Circumstances of External Adoration with bended Knees and Eyes lifted up to Heaven and that this Practice is according to the Council Trent which not only decrees a humble Invocation of them but declares it to be impiety to condemn mental and vocal Supplication to the Saints in Heaven 2. That they do own making the Saints in Heaven to be their Mediators of Intercession but not of Redemption although Christ be our Mediator in both senses And upon these two Points this Controversy depends Let us now see what our Representer saith to them 1. His Church teaches him indeed and he believes that it is good and profitable to desire the Intercession of the Saints reigning with Christ in Heaven but that they are either Gods or his Redeemers he is no where taught but detests all such Doctrine There are two Ways of desiring the Intercession of others for us 1. By way of Friendly Request as an Act of mutual Charity and so no doubt we may desire others here on Earth to pray for us 2. By way of humble Supplication with all the external Acts of Adoration and we cannot think S. Peter or S. Paul who refused any thing like Adoration from Men would have been pleased to have seen Men fall down upon their Knees before them and in the same posture of Devotion in which they were praying to Almighty God to put their Names into the middle of their Litanies and so pray them then to pray for them But how are we sure that their Church teaches no more than this I have read over and over the Council of Trent and the Roman Catechism about it and I can find no such limitation of their sense there where if if any where it ought to be found The Council of Trent mentions both the Prayers and the Help and Assistance of the Saints which they are to fly to If this Help and Assistance be no more than their Prayers why is it mentioned as distinct Why is their reigning together with Christ in Heaven spoken of but to let us understand they have a Power to Help and Assist For what is their Reigning to their Praying for us But I have a further Argument to prove the Council meant more viz. the Council knew the common Practices and Forms of Invocation then used and allowed and the general Opinion that the Saints had power to Help and Assist those who prayed to them If the Council did not approve this why did it insert the very words upon which that Practice was grounded They likewise very well knew the Complaints which had been made of these things and some of their own Communion cried shame upon some of their Hymns Wicclius saith one of them Salve Regina c. is full of downright Impiety and horrible Superstition and that others are wholly inexcusable Lud. Vives had said He found little difference in the Peoples Opinion of their Saints in many things from what the Heathens had of their Gods These things were known and it was in their Power to have redressed them by declaring what the sense of the Council was and that whatever Forms were used no more was to be understood by them but praying to them to pray for them Besides the Council of Trent in the very same Session took care about Reforming the Missal and Breviary why was no care taken to Reform these Prayers and Hymns which they say are not to be construed by the Sense of the Words but by the Sense of the Church There was time enough taken for doing it for the Reformed Missal was not published till six Years after the Council nor the Breviary till four In all that time the Prayers and Hymns might easily have been altered to the Sense of the Church if that were truly so But instead of that a very late French Writer cries out of the necessity of Reforming the Breviaries as to these things wherein he confesses Many Hymns are still remaining wherein those things are asked of Saints which ought to be asked of God alone as being delivered from the Chains of our Sins being preserved from spiritual Maladies and Hell Fire being inflamed with Charity and made fit for Heaven In good Conscience saith he is not this joining the Saints with God himself to ask those things of them which God alone can give And whatever Men talk of the Sense of the Church he confesses the very Forms and natural Sense of the Words do raise another Idea in Mens Minds which ought to be prevented But doth not the Roman Catechism explain this to be the sense of the Church I have examined that too with all the care I could about this Matter And I cannot find any Necessity from thence of putting this Sense upon them I
grant in one place where it explains the difference of the Invocation of God and Saints it saith We are to pray to God as the Giver and to Saints that they would obtain things of God for us and then it adds the Forms differ that to God is Miserere Nobis and Audi Nos that to Saints is Ora pro Nobis Very well And is there then no other Form owned or allowed in the Church of Rome to Saints besides this Hold a little saith the Catechism for it is lawful to make use of another Form and that is we may pray to Saints too Ut nostri misereantur And how doth this now differ from that to God but only in Number But it adds that the Saints are very pittiful then surely we are encouraged to pray to them for help and pitty Yes saith the Catechism we may pray to them that being moved with pity towards us they would help us with their Favour and Intercession with God But yet this doth not clear the Matter for elsewhere the Roman Catechism attributes more to Saints than meer Intercession and we may pray to them for what is in their Power For where it undertakes to give an exact Account of the Reason of Invocation● of Saints and Angels it there parallels them with Magistrates under a King and saith they are God's Ministers in governing the Church Invocandi itaque sunt quod perpetuo Deum intuentur Patrocinium Salutis nostrae libentissime suscipiunt What is this Patrocinium falutis nostrae Is it only Praying and Intercession with God That cannot be for it instances presently in deliverances by Angels and Jacob 's praying to the Angel to bless him and not meerly to intercede for him But though this is spoken of Angels yet from hence it infers the Invocation of Saints too But what need we insist more on this since they do own the Ministry of Saints as well as Angels with respect to the Church and do Canonize Saints for particular Countries as lately S. Rosa for Peru. And where there is such a particular Protection supposed what incongruity is it to interpret the Form of their Prayers according to a Doctrine so received and allowed But of this more under the next Head 2. He confesses that we are all redeemed by the Blood of Christ alone and that he is our only Mediator of Redemption but as for Mediators of Intercession he doth not doubt but it is acceptable with God we should have many I would ask concerning this Distinction the Question which Christ asked concerning John's Baptism Is it from Heaven or of Man No doubt there may be such a Distinction of Mediators if God please to make them But who hath Authority to appoint Mediators with him besides himself Is it not usurping his Prerogative to appoint the great Officers of his Kingdom for him Would any Prince upon Earth allow this viz. when he hath absolutely declared his Pleasure that his own Son should present Petitions to him that others shall take upon them to set up Masters of Requests themselves Can any thing be plainer in the New Testament than that God hath appointed the Mediator of Redemption to be our Mediator of Intercession And that his Intercession is founded upon his Redemption As the High Priest's going into the Holy of Holies to intercede for the People was upon the Blood of the Sacrifice of Expiation which he carried in with him If there were no Revelation in this Matter there might be some reason for it But since the Revelation is so clear in it this Distinction looks just like the Socinians Distinction of a God by Nature and a God by Office which was framed on purpose to avoid the plain Texts of Scripture which called Christ God So doth this look as if it were intended to avoid that clear Text which saith There is but one Mediator between God and Man the Man Christ Jesus Which is pre●ently answered with this Distinction although there ●e not the least ground in that or any other Text for it Yes saith our Author Moses was such a Mediator for the Israelites Job for his three Friends Stephen for his Persecutors The Romans were desired by S. Paul to be his Mediator and the Corinthians and Ephesians so almost every sick Person desires the Congregation to be his Mediator that is to be remembred in their Prayers p. 4 5. But is there no difference between Men praying for one another and desiring others to pray for them here on Earth and an humble Invocation of the Saints in Heaven to be our Mediators of Intercession with God there There is a threefold disparity in the Case 1. Here upon Earth we converse with one another as Fellow-Creatures and there is no danger of our having an Opinion thereby that we are able to assist one another any other way than by our Prayers But the Case is very different as to the Saints in Heaven who by being addressed to there by such solemn Invocation may too easily be conceived to have the Power of bestowing such Blessings upon those who call upon them 2. Heaven is looked on by all Mankind who direct their Devotions thither as the particular Throne of God where he dwells and discovers himself after another manner than he doth upon the Earth And we are directed to pray to our Father in Heaven where he is represented as infinitely above all his Creatures and the great Concernment of Religion is to keep up the apprehension of this distance between him and them Now it is hardly possible to keep it up if in the Publick Offices of Religion in the solemnest postures of Devotion with Eyes lifted up to Heaven they do make Addresses both to God and to his Creatures 3. Men are sure when they pray to others on Earth to pray for them that they do no more than they can justify in point of Discretion when they speak or write to those that can understand what their desire is but no Man on Earth can be certain that the Saints in Heaven can do it For it is agreed they cannot do it without Revelation and no Man can be assured there is a Revelation and it is not reasonable to expect it for they pray to Saints to pray to God for them and they cannot tell what they pray for unless God to whom they are to prav reveal to them what it is they must pray to him for Is it not then the better the safer the wiser way to make our Prayers to him who we are sure is able to hear and help us and hath promised to grant what we ask in his Son's Name But there is no other Name either under Heaven or in Heaven whereby we can be saved or our Prayers accepted but His alone But our Author saith It is no part of his Faith how the Saints in Heaven know the Prayers and Necessities of such who address themselves to them p. 5. But how