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reason_n answer_n answer_v objection_n 2,644 5 9.4165 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A49134 Vox cleri, or, The sense of the clergy concerning the making of alterations in the established liturgy with remarks on the discourse concerning the Ecclesiastical Commission and several letters for alterations : to which is added an historical account of the whole proceedings of the present convocation. Long, Thomas, 1621-1707. 1690 (1690) Wing L2986; ESTC R1029 58,819 80

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be_v cast_v off_o at_o once_o he_o tell_v we_o p._n 14._o of_o many_o alteration_n former_o make_v and_o will_v fain_o know_v a_o reason_n why_o we_o shall_v not_o make_v more_o i_o answ_n because_o there_o be_v not_o such_o reason_n as_o be_v to_o reform_v the_o liturgy_n in_o the_o reign_n of_o edw._n 6._o when_o there_o be_v crisme_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o such_o other_o thing_n which_o calvin_n call_v tolerabiles_fw-la ineptias_fw-la and_o q._n elizabeth_n keep_v in_o some_o thing_n to_o bring_v in_o the_o papist_n and_o it_o have_v good_a effect_n but_o we_o be_v so_o well_o accommodate_v to_o truth_n piety_n and_o devotion_n there_o need_v no_o other_o alteration_n unless_o better_a reason_n can_v be_v show_v it_o be_v confess_o the_o best_a in_o the_o christian_a world_n but_o moreover_o what_o good_a effect_n have_v follow_v the_o six_o hundred_o alteration_n in_o 1661._o who_o desire_v they_o at_o our_o hand_n and_o their_o not_o desire_v they_o argue_v they_o 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thorough_a reformation_n shall_v be_v make_v as_o the_o scot_n once_o procure_v and_o have_v again_o design_v and_o therefore_o i_o dare_v not_o trust_v the_o promise_n of_o this_o single_a person_n whoever_o he_o be_v for_o i_o fear_v he_o have_v not_o be_v as_o faithful_a to_o his_o former_a solemn_a engagement_n as_o he_o ought_v that_o upon_o our_o alteration_n we_o shall_v find_v all_o the_o good_a success_n that_o can_v be_v desire_v because_o as_o he_o say_v there_o be_v appearance_n at_o present_a to_o the_o contrary_a and_o they_o of_o such_o a_o aspect_n as_o will_v much_o abate_v the_o credit_n which_o he_o expect_v shall_v be_v give_v to_o his_o promise_n we_o have_v once_o very_o great_a promise_n from_o such_o a_o sort_n of_o man_n what_o a_o glorious_a king_n they_o will_v make_v of_o king_n charles_n the_o first_o and_o they_o do_v it_o but_o it_o be_v by_o martyrdom_n and_o a_o godly_a reformation_n be_v promise_v in_o the_o church_n but_o it_o prove_v a_o thorough_a 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offering_n of_o the_o lord_n yet_o honour_v his_o son_n more_o than_o god_n yet_o notwithstanding_o this_o he_o charge_v the_o church_n as_o be_v too_o obstinate_a and_o obstruct_v the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o salvation_n of_o so_o many_o soul_n as_o if_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o salvation_n of_o soul_n be_v not_o more_o probable_o to_o be_v promote_v in_o the_o church_n than_o out_o of_o it_o and_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n more_o likely_a to_o be_v procure_v by_o a_o restrain_v of_o those_o that_o separate_v from_o it_o rather_o than_o by_o comply_v with_o they_o as_o he_o advise_v he_o tell_v we_o indeed_o that_o we_o be_v physician_n send_v to_o heal_v those_o that_o be_v sick_a and_o infirm_a and_o when_o they_o refuse_v a_o wholesome_a medicine_n aught_o to_o think_v of_o something_o agreeable_a to_o his_o humour_n and_o palate_n but_o if_o the_o sick_a man_n become_v peevish_a as_o he_o say_v and_o nothing_o will_v please_v he_o but_o what_o the_o physician_n know_v will_v endanger_v his_o life_n the_o physician_n ought_v not_o in_o compliance_n with_o his_o humour_n to_o hazard_v his_o life_n a_o gentle_a restraint_n be_v more_o absolute_o necessary_a in_o such_o case_n than_o a_o foolish_a pity_n nor_o can_v it_o be_v call_v unreasonable_a severity_n for_o in_o such_o case_n non_fw-la persequitur_fw-la medice_fw-la aegrum_fw-la sed_fw-la aeger_fw-la medicum_fw-la say_v st._n augustine_n object_n 7._o if_o we_o make_v those_o alteration_n how_o shall_v we_o answer_v the_o papist_n who_o will_v upbraid_v we_o with_o it_o to_o this_o he_o answer_v as_o well_o as_o we_o do_v in_o the_o first_o of_o q._n elizabeth_n reply_n not_o so_o well_o for_o she_o alter_v some_o thing_n that_o be_v superstitious_a and_o yet_o keep_v up_o such_o a_o decency_n as_o draw_v in_o many_o papist_n to_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n as_o my_o lord_n cook_n observe_v 2._o he_o say_v we_o may_v alter_v now_o as_o well_o as_o in_o 1662._o and_o likely_a no_o better_o for_o then_o notwithstanding_o the_o six_o hundred_o alteration_n the_o dissenter_n be_v dissenter_n still_o 3._o we_o may_v answer_v the_o papist_n he_o say_v by_o plead_v their_o alteration_n at_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n whereas_o that_o council_n be_v so_o far_o from_o comply_v with_o the_o then_o dissenter_n that_o they_o make_v more_o severe_a canon_n and_o enjoin_v they_o under_o their_o anathemas_n when_o we_o only_o desire_v to_o preserve_v our_o own_o constitution_n which_o our_o author_n say_v be_v both_o reasonable_a and_o religious_a object_n 8._o we_o shall_v by_o these_o alteration_n dissatisfie_v our_o own_o people_n answ_n i_o believe_v there_o be_v more_o noise_n than_o truth_n or_o reason_n in_o this_o objection_n there_o may_v be_v say_v he_o some_o few_o ignorant_a or_o weak_a people_n that_o be_v zealous_o affect_v to_o these_o matter_n but_o the_o apostle_n account_v they_o to_o be_v the_o strong_a and_o better_o instruct_v christian_n who_o understand_v their_o christian_a liberty_n as_o to_o thing_n indifferent_a and_o be_v ready_a to_o submit_v to_o their_o governor_n in_o such_o thing_n for_o the_o peace_n of_o the_o church_n and_o condemn_v those_o that_o be_v contentious_a against_o the_o use_n of_o they_o the_o people_n ought_v not_o to_o prescribe_v to_o the_o church_n in_o such_o thing_n but_o the_o church_n to_o they_o nor_o be_v it_o a_o sinful_a supposition_n in_o they_o that_o do_v obey_v for_o they_o do_v not_o obey_v as_o to_o divine_a institution_n but_o as_o to_o the_o constitution_n of_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o we_o do_v not_o fear_v that_o they_o will_v desert_v we_o if_o we_o keep_v our_o ground_n thus_o far_o say_v our_o author_n i_o have_v show_v what_o necessity_n be_v upon_o we_o to_o consent_v to_o the_o alteration_n that_o will_v be_v propose_v in_o this_o present_a convocation_n a_o strange_a kind_n of_o necessity_n to_o consent_v to_o what_o we_o never_o know_v be_v it_o right_n or_o wrong_n a_o great_a noise_n be_v make_v of_o consent_v to_o certain_a homily_n that_o shall_v be_v set_v forth_o by_o authority_n of_o church_n and_o state_n but_o here_o we_o must_v necessary_o consent_v to_o what_o will_v be_v propose_v by_o some_o few_o man_n who_o by_o this_o man_n authority_n may_v impose_v what_o they_o will_v upon_o we_o but_o of_o this_o he_o seem_v to_o be_v ashamed_a and_o therefore_o proceed_v to_o another_o reason_n for_o this_o necessity_n from_o the_o promise_n make_v by_o the_o bishop_n to_o k._n james_n which_o if_o not_o perform_v we_o must_v expect_v the_o general_a clamour_n of_o the_o people_n against_o we_o as_o a_o base_a and_o false_a sort_n of_o man_n who_o can_v promise_v in_o time_n of_o adversity_n and_o forget_v all_o when_o that_o be_v over_o and_o so_o become_v the_o reproach_n of_o every_o man._n answ_n we_o be_v little_o oblige_v to_o this_o author_n for_o his_o misrepresentation_n of_o we_o and_o of_o our_o promise_n which_o be_v conditional_a if_o the_o parliament_n and_o convocation_n shall_v agree_v and_o be_v the_o bishop_n in_o more_o prosperity_n now_o than_o when_o they_o make_v those_o promise_n be_v they_o in_o a_o condition_n to_o perform_v they_o now_o if_o they_o be_v never_o so_o willing_a this_o be_v the_o same_o as_o if_o one_o man_n shall_v extort_v a_o promise_n from_o another_o in_o duris_fw-la and_o then_o so_o bound_v he_o up_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v impossible_a for_o he_o to_o perform_v what_o he_o promise_v the_o reproach_n of_o non-performance_n will_v lay_v on_o some_o other_o and_o not_o on_o he_o let_v the_o bishop_n be_v put_v in_o statu_fw-la quo_fw-la and_o then_o see_v what_o they_o will_v do_v but_o this_o objection_n our_o author_n sufficient_o answer_v when_o he_o say_v there_o be_v no_o assurance_n that_o any_o one_o of_o the_o dissenter_n will_v come_v over_o to_o we_o on_o our_o concession_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o proceed_v on_o this_o project_n for_o as_o for_o his_o confidence_n that_o many_o will_v come_v in_o he_o must_v know_v the_o mind_n of_o those_o many_o better_a than_o they_o themselves_o do_v if_o he_o be_v assure_v of_o it_o for_o the_o leader_n of_o that_o multitude_n who_o be_v guide_v by_o they_o have_v declare_v the_o contrary_n and_o it_o be_v the_o interest_n of_o their_o minister_n who_o have_v a_o more_o plentiful_a income_n by_o their_o conventicle_n as_o well_o as_o great_a respect_n and_o a_o large_a power_n than_o they_o 〈◊〉_d hope_v for_o in_o a_o church_n benefice_n will_v never_o be_v such_o self-denying_a person_n as_o to_o renounce_v all_o these_o interest_n and_o be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n to_o the_o loss_n of_o they_o but_o the_o people_n say_v our_o author_n will_v forsake_v they_o and_o come_v into_o we_o if_o these_o alteration_n be_v make_v ans_fw-fr on_o the_o contrary_a it_o be_v more_o probable_a that_o when_o we_o make_v alteration_n without_o their_o desire_n the_o minister_n will_v tell_v they_o we_o be_v ashamed_a of_o our_o corrupt_a worship_n and_o have_v alter_v it_o in_o some_o lesser_a but_o have_v retain_v the_o great_a matter_n to_o which_o they_o can_v yield_v there_o be_v yet_o many_o sinful_a condition_n in_o our_o conformity_n and_o as_o the_o people_n be_v already_o in_o this_o belief_n so_o they_o will_v from_o our_o voluntary_a alteration_n confirm_v they_o in_o it_o and_o gain_v more_o on_o their_o credulity_n and_o from_o hence_o the_o minister_n will_v not_o be_v leave_v without_o excuse_n as_o long_o as_o they_o pretend_v any_o one_o sinful_a term_n for_o a_o communion_n with_o we_o be_v retain_v and_o that_o pretence_n be_v like_a to_o hold_v as_o long_o as_o it_o be_v their_o interest_n to_o suggest_v it_o and_o so_o long_o after_o all_o that_o we_o can_v grant_v we_o shall_v still_o be_v vex_v with_o their_o clamour_n but_o 2_o it_o be_v say_v we_o shall_v by_o our_o alteration_n give_v satisfaction_n to_o the_o nation_n who_o expect_v it_o the_o main_a body_n whereof_o he_o say_v stand_v indifferent_o affect_v to_o they_o and_o we_o and_o think_v the_o thing_n stand_v upon_o to_o be_v but_o trifle_a matter_n how_o the_o nation_n will_v brook_v such_o a_o accusation_n as_o if_o like_a gallio_n they_o care_v not_o for_o the_o solemnity_n of_o divine_a worship_n and_o be_v laodicean_n neither_o hot_a nor_o cold_a for_o that_o which_o be_v establish_v by_o law_n and_o have_v be_v so_o long_o approve_v by_o their_o practice_n let_v they_o show_v and_o it_o be_v a_o shame_n if_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v as_o zealous_a for_o the_o establish_v worship_n as_o the_o dissenter_n be_v for_o that_o which_o have_v be_v so_o often_o condemn_v though_o now_o it_o be_v tolerate_v but_o there_o be_v yet_o another_o necessity_n for_o alteration_n because_o if_o we_o do_v it_o