question_v till_o our_o separatist_n rise_v up_o who_o be_v not_o comparable_a to_o they_o in_o part_n or_o holiness_n 2_o i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o make_v of_o those_o minister_n who_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 33_o cyp._n epis_n 33_o they_o be_v ordain_v in_o cyprian_n time_n by_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n and_o by_o hieroms_n time_n the_o bishop_n have_v ingross_v that_o power_n into_o their_o own_o hand_n as_o appear_v by_o that_o speech_n of_o he_o except_v ordination_n evagr._fw-la epist_n ad_fw-la evagr._fw-la what_o do_v a_o bishop_n that_o a_o presbyter_n do_v not_o so_o that_o by_o this_o time_n it_o shall_v seem_v that_o the_o presbyter_n be_v turn_v out_o and_o the_o bishop_n only_o ordain_v it_o be_v possible_a this_o may_v be_v but_o in_o some_o church_n for_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n order_v that_o no_o bishop_n shall_v ordain_v without_o the_o council_n of_o his_o clergy_n can._n 22._o can._n 3._o now_o what_o be_v these_o no_o 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4._o which_o place_n will_v seem_v to_o favour_v it_o and_o other_o there_o be_v who_o they_o quote_v see_v greg._n de_fw-fr val._n to_o 4._o d._n 9_o q._n 5._o also_o for_o the_o shave_n of_o the_o head_n of_o their_o minister_n this_o we_o find_v indeed_o in_o august_n time_n ep._n 26._o &_o ep._n 147._o and_o this_o calvin_n himself_o do_v not_o deny_v to_o have_v be_v use_v then_o and_o give_v the_o reason_n why_o it_o be_v use_v which_o greg._n de_fw-fr val._n scorn_v and_o give_v other_o reason_n to._n 4._o d._n 9_o q._n 5._o p._n 3._o if_o the_o decret_a epistle_n of_o anicetus_n be_v of_o any_o authority_n we_o shall_v find_v it_o in_o his_o day_n long_o before_o augustin_n and_o i_o wonder_v that_o greg._n val._n do_v not_o quote_v he_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v be_v they_o be_v so_o prone_a to_o ceremony_n in_o other_o ordinance_n that_o something_o be_v add_v to_o this_o also_o 27._o just_a l._n 4._o c._n 19_o sect_n 27._o and_o i_o marvel_v that_o in_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n where_o they_o set_v down_o their_o rite_n in_o ordination_n of_o other_o officer_n and_o some_o very_a ridiculous_a that_o the_o ordination_n of_o presbyter_n shall_v be_v the_o most_o pure_a but_o still_o with_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o presbyter_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n now_o in_o hand_n 3_o a_o bishop_n if_o you_o consider_v he_o mere_o as_o a_o bishop_n be_v but_o a_o minister_n and_o set_v apart_o to_o do_v the_o work_n of_o a_o minister_n the_o same_o which_o all_o other_o minister_n may_v do_v bishop_n do_v pray_v prithee_o baptise_v administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n ordain_v suspend_v excommunicate_a and_o these_o thing_n other_o minister_n do_v and_o may_v do_v that_o he_o do_v lift_v up_o himself_o above_o other_o minister_n that_o be_v his_o error_n that_o he_o will_v take_v upon_o he_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n this_o be_v his_o error_n but_o as_o the_o addition_n of_o a_o human_a invention_n do_v not_o 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bishopric_n by_o regallfavour_n his_o lordship_n be_v no_o ingredient_n into_o ordination_n 4_o the_o law_n of_o this_o realm_n do_v account_v nothing_o divine_a in_o a_o bishop_n but_o his_o be_v a_o presbyter_n 85._o lond._n vind_z 125._o dr._n seam_n answ_n to_o diat_v p._n 85._o and_o therefore_o the_o parliament_n in_o their_o ordinance_n for_o ordination_n tell_v we_o that_o they_o do_v ordain_v as_o presbyter_n not_o as_o bishop_n much_o less_o as_o lord_n bishop_n yea_o i_o have_v hear_v a_o reverend_a minister_n now_o pastor_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n in_o essex_n say_v that_o when_o the_o bishop_n ordain_v he_o he_o tell_v he_o i_o do_v ordain_v you_o as_o i_o be_o a_o presbyter_n 5_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v ready_a to_o acknowledge_v those_o defect_n and_o corruption_n which_o do_v cleave_v to_o their_o enter_v into_o the_o ministry_n by_o the_o bishop_n hear_v their_o own_o word_n 124._o london_n vindica_fw-la p._n 124._o we_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o the_o way_n of_o minister_n enter_v into_o the_o ministry_n by_o the_o bishop_n have_v many_o defect_n in_o it_o for_o which_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v humble_v but_o we_o add_v that_o notwithstanding_o all_o the_o accidental_a corruption_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o substantial_o and_o essential_o corrupt_v they_o acknowledge_v then_o the_o error_n and_o desire_v to_o be_v humble_v for_o it_o what_o more_o will_v you_o have_v god_n will_v accept_v of_o this_o i_o doubt_v not_o and_z why_o not_o you_o how_o to_o mend_v dr._n seaman_n divinity_n i_o know_v not_o where_o you_o have_v also_o the_o error_n acknowledge_v implicit_o for_o it_o be_v in_o answer_n to_o this_o objection_n then_o give_v his_o judgement_n in_o the_o case_n when_o sin_n cleave_v to_o the_o manner_n of_o call_v 85._o answer_v to_o diat_v p._n 85._o through_o the_o general_a error_n or_o corruption_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n who_o be_v concern_v in_o it_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v nototherwise_o to_o be_v invalidate_v here_o below_o then_o by_o doctrinal_a censure_n and_o repentance_n and_o not_o by_o iteration_n repentance_n through_o christ_n blood_n do_v take_v away_o corruption_n out_o of_o god_n fight_n and_o will_v it_o not_o when_o they_o be_v so_o ingenuous_a out_o of_o your_o sight_n 6_o there_o be_v a_o maxim_n take_v up_o among_o the_o independent_o according_o many_o may_v true_o bear_v the_o name_n yea_o they_o own_v it_o and_o practice_v according_o yea_o and_o other_o and_o it_o go_v for_o as_o good_a divinity_n as_o any_o the_o gospel_n have_v viz._n that_o error_n in_o nonfundamentals_a must_v be_v bear_v withal_o in_o church_n we_o must_v labour_v indeed_o to_o convince_v people_n of_o such_o but_o if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v so_o convince_v we_o must_v not_o
separation_n examine_v or_o a_o treatise_n wherein_o the_o ground_n for_o separation_n from_o the_o ministry_n and_o church_n of_o england_n be_v weigh_v and_o find_v too_o light_a the_o practice_n prove_v to_o be_v not_o only_o unwarrantable_a but_o likewise_o so_o hurtful_a to_o the_o church_n that_o church-reformation_n can_v with_o any_o comfort_n go_v forward_o so_o long_o as_o such_o separation_n be_v tolerate_v also_o a_o humble_a request_n present_v to_o the_o congregational_a divine_n that_o since_o the_o difference_n between_o they_o and_o the_o classical-divines_a be_v very_o small_a they_o will_v please_v to_o strike_v in_o with_o the_o classical-divines_a in_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n of_o reformation_n before_o the_o inundation_n of_o these_o corrupt_a opinion_n have_v destroy_v both_o ordinance_n and_o religion_n by_o gi._n firmin_n minister_n to_o the_o church_n in_o shalford_n in_o essex_n 1_o cor._n 1.10_o now_o i_o beseech_v you_o brethren_z by_o the_o name_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n that_o you_o all_o speak_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o schism_n among_o you_o judicabit_fw-la autem_fw-la &_o eosqui_fw-la schismata_fw-la operantur_fw-la qui_fw-la sunt_fw-la immanes_a non_fw-la habentes_fw-la dei_fw-la dilectionem_fw-la suamque_fw-la utilitatem_fw-la potius_fw-la considerantes_fw-la quà m_fw-la unitatem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la propter_fw-la modicas_fw-la &_o quaslibet_fw-la causas_fw-la magnum_fw-la &_o gloriosum_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la conscindunt_fw-la &_o dividunt_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 4._o c._n 62._o cavenda_fw-la sunt_fw-la autem_fw-la fratres_fw-la dilectissimi_fw-la non_fw-la solum_fw-la quae_fw-la sunt_fw-la aperta_fw-la &_o manifesta_fw-la sed_fw-la &_o astutae_fw-la fraudis_fw-la subtilitate_fw-la fallentia_fw-la etc._n etc._n haeteses_fw-la invenit_fw-la &_o schismata_fw-la quibus_fw-la subverteret_fw-la fidem_fw-la veritatem_fw-la corrumperet_fw-la scinderet_fw-la unitatem_fw-la cypr._n de_fw-fr unit_fw-la eccles_n london_n print_v by_o r._n i._n for_o stephen_n bowtell_n at_o the_o bible_n in_o popes-head-alley_n 1652._o the_o content_n there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n pag._n 1_o there_o be_v a_o true_a gospel-ministry_n in_o england_n pag._n 4._o the_o ground_n of_o separation_n must_v be_v either_o in_o the_o ministry_n worship_n congregation_n or_o place_n of_o meeting_n p._n 12_o the_o ordination_n of_o the_o minister_n by_o bishop_n can_v be_v no_o ground_n for_o separation_n p._n 22_o there_o can_v be_v no_o ground_n in_o the_o worship_n be_v sing_v of_o psalm_n be_v here_o touch_v p._n 32_o there_o can_v be_v no_o ground_n in_o the_o congregation_n though_o many_o wicked_a person_n be_v there_o nor_o in_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n p._n 39_o the_o proposal_n of_o the_o separatist_n what_o they_o will_v have_v be_v set_v down_o and_o answer_v return_v as_o 1_o they_o will_v have_v minister_n lay_v down_o their_o former_a call_n and_o join_v with_o they_o than_o they_o it_o may_v be_v will_v elect_v they_o and_o ordain_v they_o where_o this_o question_n be_v handle_v p._n 46_o quest_n whether_o election_n only_o give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o minister_n and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n p._n 50_o whether_o the_o people_n have_v power_n to_o ordain_v p._n 70_o whether_o the_o fraternity_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n brief_o touch_v p._n 73_o 2_o they_o will_v have_v a_o explicit_a covenant_n which_o they_o call_v the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n p._n 81_o 3_o no_o church-member_n but_o visible_a saint_n p._n 82_o 4_o power_n in_o admission_n and_o excommunication_n p._n 83_o 5_o liberty_n to_o prophesy_v p._n 84_o 6_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n p._n 88_o how_o it_o appear_v that_o church-reformation_n can_v with_o comfort_v proceed_v so_o long_o as_o the_o separation_n be_v tolerate_v p._n 91_o the_o separatist_n be_v no_o such-friend_n to_o the_o civil_a power_n as_o be_v pretend_v p._n 94_o the_o question_n propound_v to_o the_o separatist_n in_o reference_n to_o their_o separation_n p._n 97_o the_o agreement_n and_o difference_n with_o and_o between_o the_o classical_a and_o congregationall_a divine_n be_v review_v their_o agreement_n find_v to_o be_v many_o their_o difference_n very_o few_o p._n 100_o whence_o a_o humble_a request_n be_v present_v to_o the_o congregationall_a divine_n speedy_o to_o join_v with_o the_o classical_a divine_n back_v with_o seven_o reason_n p._n 108_o to_o the_o reverend_a the_o minister_n of_o london_n the_o author_n of_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n print_v 1650._o father_n and_o brethren_n the_o goodness_n of_o god_n manifest_v of_o old_a to_o england_n in_o cause_v the_o sun_n of_o his_o gospel_n to_o rise_v early_o upon_o this_o nation_n and_o to_o find_v such_o entertainment_n in_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o supreme_a power_n that_o it_o be_v the_o first_o nation_n that_o ever_o receive_v the_o gospel_n with_o the_o countenance_n of_o public_a authority_n have_v the_o first_o christian_a king_n that_o ever_o be_v be_v know_v to_o the_o whole_a christian_a world_n his_o goodness_n in_o these_o latter_a day_n since_o he_o take_v from_o our_o neck_n the_o anti-christian_n yoke_n have_v be_v also_o wonderful_a honour_v the_o minister_n of_o his_o gospel_n with_o such_o holiness_n learning_n ministerial_a ability_n and_o success_n in_o their_o labour_n in_o convert_v many_o and_o set_v up_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n in_o this_o nation_n that_o he_o have_v not_o honour_v any_o nation_n more_o nay_o without_o pride_n it_o may_v be_v speak_v his_o free_a grace_n have_v not_o honour_v any_o nation_n so_o much_o in_o these_o respect_n as_o this_o english_a nation_n but_o now_o in_o our_o day_n the_o ministry_n which_o god_n have_v thus_o honour_v be_v as_o much_o dishonour_v and_o that_o by_o such_o who_o can_v but_o acknowledge_v their_o own_o mouth_n have_v speak_v it_o that_o what_o spiritual_a good_a they_o have_v receive_v it_o be_v wrought_v by_o the_o ministry_n and_o now_o we_o find_v scorn_v deride_v separate_v from_o the_o ministry_n and_o many_o not_o so_o much_o as_o step_v over_o their_o threshold_n to_o hear_v they_o who_o be_v the_o first_o instrument_n of_o their_o good_a if_o they_o have_v any_o as_o some_o we_o hope_v have_v and_o yet_o the_o minister_n be_v the_o same_o they_o be_v before_o yea_o some_o repent_v that_o ever_o they_o bestow_v so_o much_o pain_n and_o time_n to_o follow_v the_o minister_n as_o one_o that_o live_v but_o four_o or_o five_o mile_n from_o dedham_n have_v say_v he_o repent_v that_o he_o follow_v that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n mr._n rogers_n so_o much_o to_o hear_v his_o preach_n while_o i_o observe_v these_o thing_n and_o consider_v into_o what_o a_o sad_a condition_n we_o be_v fall_v and_o read_v over_o your_o vindication_n in_o which_o i_o see_v a_o holy_a meek_a and_o true_a christian_a spirit_n breathe_v call_v upon_o the_o congregationall_a man_n to_o join_v with_o you_o certain_o i_o think_v that_o book_n deserve_v a_o courteous_a christian_a answer_n from_o the_o able_a of_o our_o congregationall_a man_n what_o they_o have_v do_v towards_o it_o i_o know_v not_o be_v little_o acquaint_v with_o affair_n abroad_o be_v lock_v up_o in_o much_o sadness_n of_o spirit_n at_o home_n but_o i_o think_v with_o myself_o that_o be_v i_o be_v number_v among_o the_o independent_o though_o i_o be_o the_o weak_a and_o most_o worthy_a the_o holy_a lord_n shall_v turn_v i_o out_o of_o his_o holy_a work_n lay_v other_o thing_n together_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v in_o the_o epistle_n to_o the_o reader_n i_o resolve_v to_o improve_v the_o little_a talon_n the_o lord_n have_v give_v i_o in_o examine_v the_o ground_n of_o these_o practice_n and_o to_o stand_v up_o in_o the_o defence_n of_o such_o minister_n who_o i_o see_v be_v dear_a to_o christ_n and_o who_o in_o holiness_n learning_n and_o ability_n the_o lord_n have_v honour_v far_o before_o myself_o and_o now_o my_o father_n the_o quarrel_n be_v not_o only_o with_o you_o because_o you_o be_v presbyterial_a minister_n the_o quarrel_n be_v with_o the_o whole_a ministry_n for_o this_o spirit_n have_v infect_v even_o some_o in_o new_a england_n and_o i_o believe_v will_v cause_v more_o trouble_n there_o in_o those_o church_n than_o ever_o the_o bishop_n do_v though_o they_o threaten_v they_o much_o what_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o some_o and_o what_o be_v the_o fear_n of_o the_o worthy_a minister_n there_o i_o understand_v by_o letter_n i_o do_v not_o i_o dare_v not_o censure_v the_o congregationall_a church_n here_o some_o of_o the_o minister_n i_o know_v to_o be_v holy_a and_o reverend_a i_o wish_v i_o have_v such_o grace_n many_o member_n no_o doubt_n be_v real_o godly_a but_o have_v i_o not_o live_v in_o new_a england_n and_o see_v the_o church_n there_o by_o what_o i_o hear_v of_o divers_a and_o what_o i_o know_v by_o some_o church_n here_o
than_o i_o desire_v no_o more_o if_o they_o be_v so_o far_o minister_n as_o to_o administer_v baptism_n to_o you_o than_o they_o may_v well_o administer_v ordination_n to_o we_o renounce_v therefore_o the_o baptism_n you_o have_v by_o they_o so_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o can_v ordain_v and_o when_o you_o be_v regular_o re-baptised_n and_o can_v warrant_v your_o act_n and_o prove_v that_o you_o have_v the_o power_n to_o ordain_v than_o we_o will_v listen_v to_o you_o for_o my_o own_o ordination_n it_o be_v in_o the_o face_n of_o my_o people_n the_o day_n be_v spend_v in_o fast_v and_o prayer_n those_o who_o carry_v on_o the_o work_n be_v mr._n dan._n rogers_n mr._n martial_n mr._n ranew_o with_o other_o godly_a minister_n who_o join_v with_o they_o in_o the_o impose_v of_o hand_n the_o minister_n live_v about_o i_o i_o never_o see_v that_o ordinance_n carry_v on_o with_o more_o solemnity_n in_o my_o life_n the_o people_n show_v their_o election_n by_o suffrage_n hold_v up_o their_o hand_n all_o be_v do_v according_a to_o the_o pattern_n but_o yet_o i_o be_o a_o man_n as_o much_o scorn_v as_o other_o man_n who_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n i_o can_v submit_v to_o god_n in_o that_o scorn_n that_o these_o cast_n upon_o i_o for_o i_o deserve_v it_o at_o his_o hand_n only_a there_o be_v a_o foul_a error_n commit_v at_o my_o ordination_n and_o it_o be_v tell_v up_o and_o down_o by_o some_o of_o this_o kind_n against_o who_o i_o write_v and_o i_o pray_v what_o be_v it_o this_o the_o minister_n impose_v hand_n in_o my_o ordination_n this_o have_v be_v talk_v of_o as_o a_o strange_a thing_n but_o let_v i_o answer_v for_o the_o minister_n it_o be_v no_o error_n much_o less_o such_o a_o great_a one_o as_o you_o make_v it_o 1_o if_o private_a man_n carpenter_n and_o tailor_n may_v impose_v hand_n why_o may_v not_o minister_n but_o the_o former_a have_v do_v it_o ergo._n 2_o all_o the_o ordination_n that_o ever_o i_o see_v in_o new_a england_n be_v perform_v with_o imposition_n of_o hand_n i_o have_v see_v deacon_n ordain_v thus_o 3_o if_o you_o be_v wise_a than_o the_o elder_n in_o new_a england_n 74._o answ_n to_o the_o 32._o que_fw-la p._n 67._o survey_v of_o church_n dise_z p._n 2._o p._n 74._o and_o master_n hooker_n then_o overthrow_v they_o for_o they_o conceive_v it_o near_o to_o the_o institution_n 4_o if_o you_o observe_v the_o example_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n which_o be_v our_o guide_n in_o church_n affair_n we_o shall_v find_v ordination_n have_v be_v thus_o perform_v as_o act_n 6.6_o act._n 13.3_o 1_o tim._n 4.14_o 1_o tim._n 5.22_o heb._n 6.2_o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n which_o place_n by_o classical_a man_n congregationall_a man_n and_o separatist_n be_v interpret_v of_o ordination_n i_o do_v not_o here_o bring_v in_o the_o practice_n of_o church_n in_o former_a time_n because_o i_o intend_v not_o to_o handle_v the_o controversy_n whether_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v necessary_o require_v in_o ordination_n but_o bring_v you_o in_o as_o many_o example_n from_o scripture_n where_o there_o be_v minister_n ordain_v without_o imposition_n of_o hand_n as_o also_o the_o practice_n of_o other_o true_a church_n orthodox_n and_o sound_n who_o do_v ordain_v without_o etc._n etc._n or_o else_o be_v ashamed_a of_o your_o ignorance_n and_o charge_v not_o those_o man_n with_o error_n where_o none_o be_v but_o a_o true_a follow_v the_o pattern_n the_o substance_n and_o essence_n then_o of_o ordination_n be_v this_o that_o person_n qualify_v ministerial_o be_v set_v apart_o or_o separate_v for_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o person_n in_o office_n ordinary_o it_o must_v be_v thus_o what_o may_v be_v do_v extraordinary_o when_o no_o officer_n can_v be_v have_v be_v another_o case_n the_o minister_n in_o england_n have_v that_o ordinance_n for_o the_o substance_n and_o they_o have_v the_o election_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n it_o be_v hardly_o to_o be_v suppose_v that_o every_o individual_a person_n in_o a_o parish_n will_v consent_v to_o every_o godly_a minister_n but_o consent_v there_o be_v hence_o these_o two_o concur_v to_o the_o call_v which_o be_v the_o form_n of_o a_o minister_n many_o presbyterial_a minister_n be_v true_a minister_n i_o dare_v say_v more_o but_o i_o be_o sure_a now_o i_o save_v myself_o but_o i_o have_v not_o do_v with_o ordination_n yet_o i_o shall_v meet_v with_o it_o once_o again_o afterward_o let_v we_o now_o come_v and_o try_v the_o second_o ground_n for_o separation_n scil_n the_o worship_n of_o god_n the_o fault_n here_o must_v be_v reduce_v to_o one_o of_o these_o three_o head_n either_o 1_o because_o they_o can_v enjoy_v all_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n in_o these_o church_n or_o 2_o because_o the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n be_v mix_v with_o humane_a invention_n that_o they_o can_v partake_v of_o they_o without_o sin_n or_o 3_o because_o here_o be_v other_o ordinance_n set_v up_o in_o the_o church_n then_o ever_o christ_n do_v institute_v i_o can_v conceive_v any_o more_o for_o the_o first_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o that_o there_o be_v a_o defect_n of_o some_o ordinance_n be_v that_o a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n mr._n hooker_n say_v no._n if_o a_o father_n of_o a_o family_n want_v a_o rod_n in_o his_o house_n discip_n the_o preface_n to_o survey_v of_o church_n discip_n be_v it_o ergo_fw-la no_o family_n there_o may_v be_v some_o disorder_n in_o the_o house_n for_o want_v of_o good_a government_n yet_o a_o family_n divers_a divine_n of_o great_a note_n conceive_v by_o that_o text_n nehem._n 8.17_o 18._o that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n do_v omit_v the_o celebration_n of_o the_o feast_n of_o tabernacle_n almost_o the_o space_n of_o a_o thousand_o year_n the_o ark_n be_v absent_a from_o the_o tabernacle_n from_o the_o time_n of_o eli_n to_o the_o time_n of_o david_n 1_o sam._n 4.11_o compare_v with_o 2_o sam._n 6_o 17._o and_o it_o be_v a_o great_a fault_n the_o scribe_n reject_v the_o baptism_n of_o john_n but_o where_o do_v you_o find_v any_o separation_n all_o this_o while_n that_o the_o godly_a shall_v not_o join_v with_o that_o church_n and_o partake_v in_o what_o ordinance_n they_o have_v but_o this_o objection_n have_v no_o place_n in_o these_o church_n for_o prayer_n preach_v administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n yea_o discipline_n they_o have_v in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n they_o do_v suspend_v from_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o the_o bishop_n give_v the_o minister_n power_n but_o suspension_n be_v the_o lesser_a excommunication_n and_o now_o to_o be_v sure_a there_o be_v none_o want_v at_o least_o shall_v not_o be_v if_o the_o minister_n be_v not_o hinder_v in_o set_v up_o all_o the_o ordinance_n obj._n no_o say_v you_o the_o classical_a church_n have_v no_o explicit_a covenant_n for_o the_o form_n of_o they_o they_o will_v not_o admit_v it_o into_o their_o church_n therefore_o we_o separate_v i_o shall_v meet_v with_o this_o in_o another_o place_n only_o for_o the_o present_a disprove_v what_o mr._n hooker_n have_v say_v and_o the_o former_a example_n i_o have_v give_v you_o but_o yet_o you_o will_v have_v a_o hard_a piece_n of_o work_n to_o prove_v this_o to_o be_v a_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o your_o separation_n as_o afterward_o i_o hope_v i_o shall_v make_v good_a for_o the_o second_o humane_a mixture_n in_o ordinance_n this_o indeed_o be_v the_o ground_n of_o the_o old_a separatist_n yet_o in_o those_o day_n many_o holy_a and_o learned_a divine_n write_v against_o the_o separation_n but_o in_o these_o day_n that_o stumble_a block_n be_v remove_v and_o this_o let_v i_o say_v that_o if_o you_o read_v over_o all_o the_o church-story_n since_o there_o be_v a_o church_n upon_o the_o earth_n there_o can_v be_v find_v any_o example_n of_o such_o separatist_n as_o be_v now_o among_o we_o the_o old_a donatist_n have_v their_o minister_n yea_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o presbyter_n the_o separate_a church_n of_o late_a day_n have_v their_o minister_n and_o how_o strict_o do_v they_o maintain_v and_o practice_v all_o those_o ordinance_n which_o we_o laugh_v at_o as_o sing_v of_o psalm_n infant-baptism_n observation_n of_o the_o sabbath_n and_o such_o opinion_n as_o those_o learned_a and_o godly_a man_n mr._n ainsworth_n robinson_n johnson_n do_v abhor_v be_v swallow_v down_o among_o we_o so_o that_o these_o man_n can_v ground_v their_o practice_n from_o any_o example_n heretofore_o and_o as_o for_o the_o scripture_n if_o they_o can_v find_v any_o ground_n there_o i_o must_v confess_v i_o be_o altogether_o ignorant_a in_o the_o scripture_n suppose_v there_o shall_v be_v some_o human_a mixture_n though_o for_o my_o part_n i_o know_v of_o none_o be_v all_o the_o ordinance_n so_o pollute_v preach_v and_o prayer_n be_v keep_v pure_a in_o the_o episcopal_a day_n
with_o this_o logical_a affection_n of_o a_o adjunct_n and_o the_o other_o with_o the_o affection_n of_o a_o formal_a cause_n i_o shall_v put_v most_o upon_o that_o where_o the_o scripture_n be_v plain_a and_o full_a which_o i_o be_o sure_a in_o any_o man_n esteem_n that_o observe_v those_o text_n with_o a_o impartial_a eye_n be_v ordination_n whether_o ordination_n according_a to_o scripture-light_n be_v not_o as_o essential_a to_o a_o minister_n as_o election_n vis_fw-la vind._n chu_o cath._n vis_fw-la let_v any_o one_o judge_n i_o think_v mr._n hudson_n speak_v christianly_o i_o prefer_v one_o divine_a testimony_n before_o ten_o argument_n and_o one_o good_a argument_n before_o ten_o humane_a testimony_n but_o thus_o by_o clothing_n these_o scripture_n with_o these_o logical_a affection_n we_o have_v cry_v up_o election_n and_o cry_v down_o ordination_n sectary_n take_v advantage_n of_o this_o and_o hence_o come_v in_o our_o disorder_n ordination_n be_v a_o divine_a institution_n 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essential_a than_o i_o do_v ordination_n reverend_a mr._n hooker_n indeed_o say_v ordination_n be_v but_o the_o approbation_n of_o a_o person_n constitute_v in_o his_o office_n but_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v ordination_n do_v most_o respect_n that_o inward_a or_o arcanam_fw-la vocationem_fw-la as_o zanchy_a call_v it_o which_o god_n give_v a_o man_n into_o the_o ministry_n fit_v and_o qualify_a of_o a_o man_n first_o for_o the_o work_n which_o none_o else_o can_v do_v and_o give_v he_o a_o earnest_a desire_n to_o the_o work_n god_n do_v there_o as_o it_o be_v separate_v he_o inward_o and_o now_o he_o do_v it_o outward_o in_o ordination_n the_o particular_a congregation_n do_v but_o give_v he_o a_o call_v by_o their_o election_n and_o subjection_n to_o he_o to_o exercise_v this_o power_n among_o they_o pro_fw-la hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la that_o which_o move_v i_o to_o think_v so_o be_v first_o church_n may_v not_o choose_v who_o they_o listen_v as_o do_v our_o sectary_n but_o person_n qualify_v by_o god_n second_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o full_a and_o clear_a for_o ordination_n over_o it_o be_v for_o election_n though_o i_o deny_v not_o but_o election_n may_v well_o be_v prove_v three_o because_o a_o man_n may_v in_o some_o case_n be_v ordain_v to_o the_o ministry_n when_o no_o election_n of_o the_o people_n do_v precede_v as_o i_o shall_v give_v instance_n afterward_o 2._o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n do_v give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n then_o may_v a_o man_n elect_v execute_v all_o official_a power_n without_o ordination_n and_o that_o common_o but_o no_o man_n may_v execute_v official_a power_n and_o that_o common_o without_o ordination_n ergo_fw-la election_n do_v not_o give_v the_o essentials_n by_o the_o essential_o here_o he_o mean_v the_o formal_a cause_n for_o as_o for_o the_o material_a cause_n they_o can_v give_v that_o and_o we_o have_v but_o two_o cause_n that_o do_v dare_v essentiam_fw-la though_o all_o four_o do_v dare_v esse_fw-la the_o consequence_n be_v clear_a that_o they_o may_v execute_v etc._n etc._n without_o ordination_n for_o forma_fw-la that_fw-mi operari_fw-la but_o election_n give_v the_o form_n say_v these_o reverend_a man_n and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n effect_n do_v not_o depend_v upon_o adjunct_n for_o operation_n the_o form_n give_v that_o the_o minor_a that_o they_o must_v not_o do_v so_o first_o it_o be_v cross_v to_o scripture_n precedent_n if_o it_o be_v but_o a_o deacon_n 9_o survey_v part_n 3._o pag._n 9_o say_v mr._n hooker_n yet_o we_o see_v he_o be_v ordain_v second_o it_o be_v cross_a to_o your_o own_o practice_n it_o be_v frequent_a in_o new_a england_n to_o have_v a_o man_n elect_v and_o preach_v half_a a_o year_n a_o whole_a year_n yea_o i_o know_v one_o elect_v and_o preach_v two_o year_n to_o his_o people_n and_o they_o maintain_v he_o all_o that_o while_n and_o yet_o all_o that_o time_n he_o never_o administer_v a_o sacrament_n to_o his_o people_n but_o he_o and_o they_o when_o they_o will_v partake_v of_o the_o lord_n supper_n go_v ten_o mile_n to_o the_o church_n out_o of_o which_o they_o issue_v to_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n but_o this_o be_v very_o hard_a and_o needless_a if_o he_o have_v the_o form_n give_v he_o in_o election_n 2._o that_o which_o do_v next_o invest_v a_o man_n with_o official_a power_n so_o as_o now_o he_o may_v perform_v official_a act_n and_o before_o which_o he_o can_v not_o do_v so_o that_o do_v give_v essence_n and_o consequent_o be_v not_o a_o mere_a adjunct_n but_o ordination_n do_v next_o invest_v a_o minister_n with_o official_a power_n so_o as_o now_o he_o may_v perfome_v official_a act_n which_o before_o he_o can_v not_o do_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v clear_a by_o the_o scripture_n example_n second_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o your_o own_o practice_n for_o those_o who_o for_o two_o year_n and_o more_o stand_v only_o by_o election_n but_o that_o while_o dispense_v no_o 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will_v willing_o have_v they_o ordain_v within_o one_o month_n after_o they_o have_v choose_v they_o they_o be_v so_o well_o satisfy_v in_o the_o person_n who_o they_o have_v choose_v four_o it_o be_v something_o that_o solemnity_n the_o scripture_n express_v that_o be_v in_o the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n prayer_n and_o fast_v and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n we_o read_v of_o no_o such_o solemnity_n in_o election_n though_o people_n ought_v to_o pray_v before_o they_o do_v choose_v so_o it_o be_v in_o new_a england_n this_o act_n be_v very_o solemn_a when_o notice_n be_v give_v of_o the_o ordination_n of_o a_o officer_n to_o the_o several_a church_n as_o before_o any_o ordination_n all_o the_o church_n adjacent_a have_v notice_n give_v it_o run_v in_o that_o form_n there_o be_v a_o ordination_n to_o be_v this_o week_n at_o such_o a_o church_n etc._n etc._n for_o the_o election_n of_o the_o person_n we_o know_v it_o long_o before_o who_o they_o have_v choose_v and_o though_o the_o people_n do_v by_o their_o suffrage_n declare_v their_o election_n in_o this_o day_n of_o humiliation_n yet_o they_o declare_v no_o more_o than_o the_o country_n know_v before_o and_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o say_v he_o be_v not_o elect_v before_o now_o when_o first_o they_o choose_v he_o to_o go_v with_o they_o or_o come_v to_o they_o and_o there_o continue_v a_o year_n or_o two_o preach_v &_o they_o contribute_v to_o his_o maintenance_n the_o same_o i_o may_v say_v in_o regard_n of_o myself_o i_o have_v as_o full_a a_o election_n of_o my_o people_n at_o my_o first_o come_n as_o be_v declare_v at_o my_o ordination_n and_o it_o be_v above_o two_o year_n before_o i_o can_v get_v my_o ordination_n in_o the_o place_n where_o i_o be_v elect_v through_o the_o trouble_n of_o the_o time_n but_o all_o that_o while_o i_o do_v not_o conceive_v myself_o invest_v with_o
official_a power_n till_o i_o be_v also_o ordain_v the_o scripture_n then_o express_v such_o solemnity_n in_o this_o act_n and_o not_o in_o the_o other_o make_v i_o think_v this_o be_v not_o such_o a_o slight_a adjunct_n and_o the_o other_o only_o essential_a five_o i_o observe_v two_o text_n which_o make_v i_o think_v ordination_n be_v not_o a_o adjunct_n 2_o tim._n 2._o and_o the_o thing_n which_o thou_o have_v hear_v of_o i_o among_o many_o witness_n the_o same_o commit_v thou_o to_o faithful_a man_n who_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o teach_v other_o also_o and_o that_o text_n 1_o tim._n 5.22_o lay_v hand_n sudden_o upon_o no_o man_n neither_o be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n etc._n etc._n timothy_n be_v a_o church-officer_n here_o be_v a_o charge_n give_v to_o he_o to_o take_v heed_n who_o come_v into_o the_o ministry_n yea_o he_o may_v be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n if_o he_o have_v not_o a_o special_a care_n who_o he_o admit_v into_o the_o ministry_n nam_fw-la si_fw-la quem_fw-la cito_fw-la ordinaveris_fw-la qui_fw-la indignus_fw-la sit_fw-la etc._n communicare_fw-la cum_fw-la dicit_fw-la peccatis_fw-la qui_fw-la non_fw-la probatus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la ordinatus_fw-la hieron_n in_o loc._n v._o zanch._n in_o 4_o praec_fw-la p._n 784._o etc._n etc._n communicabis_fw-la peccatis_fw-la alienis_fw-la dum_fw-la ille_fw-la malè_fw-la docebit_fw-la aut_fw-la vivet_fw-la say_v gerhard_n in_o loc._n he_o quote_v also_o leo_n papa_n ep._n 87._o ad_fw-la africanos_n episc_n quid_fw-la est_fw-la citò_fw-la manus_fw-la imponere_fw-la nisi_fw-la ante_fw-la aetatem_fw-la maturitatis_fw-la antè_fw-la tempus_fw-la examinis_fw-la ante_fw-la meritum_fw-la laboris_fw-la antè_fw-la experientiam_fw-la disciplinae_fw-la sacerdotalem_fw-la honorem_fw-la tribuere_fw-la non_fw-la probatis_fw-la calvin_n also_o on_o the_o last_o word_n keep_v thyself_o pure_a ac_fw-la si_fw-la dixisset_fw-la si_fw-la quid_fw-la perperam_fw-la fiat_fw-la ab_fw-la aliis_fw-la vide_fw-la ne_fw-la ulla_fw-la ex_fw-la consensu_fw-la vel_fw-la approbatione_fw-la contagio_fw-la ad_fw-la te_fw-la perveniat_fw-la he_o refer_v it_o to_o timothy_n join_v with_o other_o in_o ordain_v unworthy_a person_n now_o these_o text_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o the_o people_n but_o minister_n officer_n as_o be_v timothy_n which_o make_v i_o think_v that_o what_o the_o minister_n do_v in_o examine_v try_v ordain_v be_v more_o than_o the_o people_n election_n where_o do_v we_o find_v such_o thing_n speak_v to_o the_o people_n where_o the_o great_a blame_n lie_v for_o unworthy_a man_n come_v into_o the_o ministry_n sure_o there_o must_v lie_v the_o great_a power_n of_o admit_v man_n into_o the_o ministry_n else_o the_o blame_n be_v not_o just_a but_o we_o see_v the_o blame_n be_v here_o lay_v upon_o the_o minister_n ☞_o ☞_o paul_n no_o where_n write_v to_o the_o people_n to_o commit_v the_o thing_n they_o have_v hear_v etc._n etc._n nor_o do_v he_o bid_v they_o not_o lay_v on_o hand_n sudden_o etc._n etc._n he_o bid_v they_o indeed_o look_v out_o man_n for_o deacon_n but_o that_o do_v not_o answer_v these_o text_n but_o if_o the_o great_a stroke_n the_o formal_a cause_n lie_v in_o the_o popular_a election_n the_o minister_n may_v well_o say_v we_o do_v but_o ordain_v we_o give_v but_o a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n do_v the_o main_a act_n they_o give_v the_o essence_n the_o essence_n be_v give_v we_o must_v give_v the_o adjunct_n so_o that_o there_o will_v be_v no_o blame_n leave_v for_o the_o minister_n 6_o it_o shall_v seem_v by_o a_o passage_n of_o doct._n 12._o bellar._n enter_v to._n 2_o l_o 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 12._o ames_n that_o ordination_n be_v more_o than_o a_o adjunct_n bellarmine_n have_v say_v vocatio_fw-la seu_fw-la missio_fw-la ministrorum_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la populum_fw-la pertinet_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la episcopos_fw-la etc._n etc._n doct._n ames_n in_o his_o second_o answer_n have_v these_o word_n absurdè_fw-la ad_fw-la modum_fw-la distinguitur_fw-la vocatio_fw-la ministri_fw-la ab_fw-la ejus_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o electione_n tanquam_fw-la pars_fw-la distincta_fw-la neque_fw-la in_o scripture_n neque_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la patribus_fw-la alia_fw-la vocatio_fw-la ordinaria_fw-la memoratur_fw-la quam_fw-la illa_fw-la quae_fw-la exurgit_fw-la quasi_fw-la totum_fw-la ex_fw-la electione_n &_o ordinatione_n what_o totum_fw-la the_o doctor_n mean_v be_v plain_a by_o his_o word_n exurgit_fw-la ex_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o electione_n he_o mean_v totum_fw-la integrale_fw-la so_o than_o ordination_n and_o election_n be_v member_n of_o this_o integrum_fw-la but_o all_o the_o member_n do_v give_v essence_n to_o the_o integrum_fw-la for_o membra_fw-la sunt_fw-la symbola_fw-la causarum_fw-la essentialium_fw-la if_o so_o then_o ordination_n can_v be_v a_o adjunct_n in_o respect_n of_o a_o ministerial_a call_n for_o no_o adjunct_n give_v essence_n but_o follow_v the_o essence_n suppose_v the_o subject_a complete_a in_o its_o essence_n before_o if_o then_o ordination_n do_v give_v essence_n as_o well_o as_o election_n this_o notion_n may_v hold_v else_o we_o shall_v have_v a_o integrum_fw-la consist_v but_o of_o two_o part_n and_o but_o one_o part_n give_v the_o essence_n which_o can_v be_v this_o notion_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v to_o consist_v as_o a_o totum_fw-la ex_fw-la electione_n &_o ordinatione_n be_v much_o near_o the_o rule_n then_o to_o have_v election_n alone_o to_o give_v the_o essence_n and_o ordination_n to_o be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n to_o this_o agree_v mr._n jacob_n a_o man_n well_o know_a there_o be_v two_o essential_a part_n of_o call_v to_o the_o ministry_n election_n ordination_n 64_o dr._n seaman_n quote_v he_o ans_fw-fr to_o diat_v p._n 64_o so_o the_o call_v be_v a_o totum_fw-la as_o for_o the_o objection_n make_v against_o this_o if_o ordination_n be_v essential_a what_o then_o shall_v become_v of_o our_o minister_n who_o ordination_n be_v not_o legitimate_a this_o i_o have_v speak_v to_o before_o and_o so_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o case_n a_o church_n be_v so_o cast_v by_o providence_n that_o they_o can_v get_v no_o officer_n to_o ordain_v they_o a_o officer_n for_o those_o who_o be_v of_o this_o opinion_n deny_v the_o people_n power_n to_o ordain_v it_n be_v easy_o yield_v by_o our_o divine_n that_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n which_o ordinary_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v do_v see_v rutherford_n due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n p._n 187._o gillespie_n miscel_n p._n 34._o etc._n etc._n for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v then_o the_o church_n fast_v and_o pray_v for_o such_o a_o one_o who_o be_v elect_v may_v do_v that_o which_o be_v equivalent_a to_o ordination_n though_o it_o be_v not_o ordination_n formalitèr_fw-la the_o strong_a argument_n wherewith_o reverend_a master_n hooker_n prove_v that_o election_n give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n be_v this_o one_o relate_v give_v the_o essential_a constitute_a cause_n to_o another_o but_o pastor_n and_o people_n be_v relate_v ergo_fw-la the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o it_o viz._n that_o ordination_n make_v he_o a_o minister_n before_o and_o election_n do_v but_o appropriate_v he_o this_o mr._n hooker_n deny_v to_o be_v any_o answer_n because_o it_o suppose_v ordination_n to_o antecede_v election_n which_o be_v quite_o cross_a to_o the_o scripture_n pattern_n act._n 6.3.6_o but_o with_o favour_n i_o shall_v humble_o propound_v this_o question_n language_n this_o be_v not_o a_o bare_a supposition_n for_o one_o of_o the_o young_a scholar_n do_v now_o preach_v to_o the_o indian_n in_o their_o language_n whether_o ordination_n may_v in_o no_o case_n precede_v election_n as_o now_o in_o this_o case_n suppose_v one_o of_o the_o scholar_n in_o the_o college_n or_o suppose_v four_o or_o more_o have_v learn_v the_o indian_a language_n and_o upon_o examination_n they_o be_v find_v to_o be_v ministerial_o qualify_v suppose_v now_o the_o presbytery_n shall_v solemn_o set_v apart_o these_o young_a man_n to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o send_v they_o forth_o to_o preach_v among_o the_o indian_n though_o the_o indian_n have_v not_o elect_v they_o here_o indeed_o will_v the_o essential_o of_o a_o officer_n be_v give_v without_o election_n i_o pray_v what_o breach_n of_o rule_n will_v here_o be_v if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o example_n mention_v act._n 6._o &_o act._n 14._o show_v their_o election_n go_v first_o it_o be_v true_a indeed_o where_o there_o be_v church_n but_o here_o be_v none_o beside_o act._n 13.3_o when_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v send_v out_o to_o preach_v among_o the_o gentile_n they_o be_v ordain_v it_o though_o some_o deny_v ordination_n here_o to_o be_v mean_v yet_o many_o learned_a man_n affirm_v it_o when_o no_o election_n do_v precede_v it_o be_v true_a they_o be_v extraordinary_a officer_n but_o what_o then_o though_o this_o do_v not_o make_v those_o young_a man_n extraordinary_a officer_n as_o be_v the_o apostle_n to_o have_v power_n in_o all_o church_n yet_o i_o see_v not_o any_o breach_n of_o rule_n in_o separate_v they_o to_o this_o work_n if_o it_o
that_o though_o there_o be_v officer_n in_o a_o church_n yet_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v which_o i_o be_o sure_a those_o divine_n who_o be_v for_o the_o people_n power_n in_o ordination_n will_v never_o admit_v be_v cross_a to_o their_o own_o principle_n and_o scripture_n 4_o we_o find_v in_o the_o eleven_o verse_n that_o after_o that_o be_v do_v aaron_n do_v wave_v these_o levite_n before_o the_o lord_n so_o that_o they_o be_v not_o complete_a till_o aaron_n have_v do_v his_o act_n whence_o i_o remember_v learned_a master_n cotton_n in_o his_o discourse_n with_o i_o say_v the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d there_o do_v but_o answer_v to_o the_o people_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o the_o new_a testament_n and_o aaron_n wave_v of_o they_o do_v answer_v to_o our_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d this_o clause_n only_o i_o remember_v but_o he_o have_v a_o large_a answer_n which_o i_o take_v from_o he_o in_o discourse_n by_o which_o i_o remember_v he_o do_v enervate_a this_o objection_n but_o i_o lose_v his_o note_n with_o all_o my_o other_o help_n in_o my_o shipwreck_n these_o man_n call_v for_o precept_n and_o example_n give_v you_o we_o one_o for_o this_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n for_o you_o put_v we_o to_o that_o also_o we_o must_v give_v you_o they_o out_o of_o the_o new_a testament_n yea_o iwould_v go_v further_o and_o desire_v they_o to_o give_v i_o one_o examplein_n the_o first_o six_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n that_o ever_o the_o people_n do_v ordain_v their_o minister_n now_o this_o be_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o we_o can_v find_v no_o foot-step_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o scripture_n nor_o in_o the_o age_n next_o and_o yet_o that_o we_o shall_v make_v it_o so_o frequent_a that_o they_o must_v ordain_v most_o frequent_o for_o if_o every_o particular_a church_n be_v independent_a as_o now_o such_o a_o church_n where_o i_o be_o in_o a_o small_a village_n where_o the_o maintenance_n will_v not_o keep_v one_o minister_n and_o therefore_o to_o be_v sure_o we_o can_v have_v more_o minister_n then_o if_o the_o minister_n remove_v or_o die_v if_o there_o come_v a_o new_a minister_n the_o people_n must_v ever_o ordain_v thus_o it_o must_v be_v in_o most_o place_n in_o england_n few_o will_v be_v except_v 2_o justin_n mart._n apol_n 2_o and_o if_o every_o new_a election_n must_v have_v a_o new_a ordination_n than_o it_o must_v always_o be_v in_o the_o people_n power_n in_o the_o primitive_a time_n there_o be_v church_n in_o city_n and_o village_n but_o that_o the_o christian_n in_o village_n do_v ordain_v their_o officer_n i_o will_v glad_o see_v that_o prove_v ordination_n in_o those_o time_n be_v carry_v by_o a_o continue_a succession_n the_o apostle_n ordain_v some_o minister_n those_o ordain_o other_o so_o downward_o but_o never_o by_o the_o people_n learned_a dr._n 6_o â—ell_o enter_fw-mi to_o 2._o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s_o 6_o ames_n seem_v to_o answer_v this_o for_o whereas_o bellarmine_n have_v say_v in_o novo_fw-la testamento_fw-la ubicunque_fw-la mentio_fw-la fit_a manunm_fw-la impositionis_fw-la semper_fw-la ea_fw-la apostolis_n caeterisque_fw-la episcapis_fw-la nunquà m_fw-la vero_fw-la plebi_fw-la tribuitur_fw-la the_o doctor_n answer_v to_o this_o in_o historiâ_fw-la novi_fw-la testamenti_fw-la exempla_fw-la babemus_fw-la constitutionis_fw-la ministerii_fw-la &_o ejusdem_fw-la etiam_fw-la conservationis_fw-la sed_fw-la non_fw-la restaurationis_fw-la ejus_fw-la aut_fw-la reformationis_fw-la post_fw-la generalem_fw-la apostasiam_fw-la omne_fw-la igitur_fw-la quae_fw-la pertinent_a ad_fw-la plebem_fw-la fidelem_fw-la in_fw-la tali_fw-la casu_fw-la non_fw-la representantur_fw-la ibi_fw-la certis_fw-la exemplis_fw-la however_o these_o word_n seem_v to_o carry_v it_o as_o if_o the_o doctor_n do_v hold_v that_o the_o people_n have_v this_o power_n in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n yet_o i_o question_v whether_o the_o doctor_n will_v look_v upon_o the_o church_n of_o england_n now_o under_o such_o a_o notion_n neither_o will_v he_o deny_v the_o ordination_n of_o our_o minister_n to_o be_v valid_a for_o substance_n but_o yet_o hear_v one_o may_v cast_v in_o something_o in_o time_n of_o reformation_n it_o may_v be_v he_o say_v 1_o to_o reform_v the_o minister_n be_v to_o form_n it_o now_o as_o it_o be_v first_o form_v but_o the_o ministry_n be_v not_o at_o first_o form_v by_o the_o people_n ergo_fw-la the_o ministry_n can_v be_v now_o reform_v by_o the_o people_n i_o think_v the_o major_n will_v not_o be_v deny_v for_o the_o minor_a let_v any_o prove_v that_o according_a to_o this_o some_o will_v say_v we_o must_v have_v apostle_n they_o form_v the_o minister_n first_o we_o speak_v of_o ordination_n i_o say_v non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la unless_o you_o can_v prove_v the_o apostle_n ordain_v only_o quâ_fw-la apostle_n if_o so_o i_o know_v not_o how_o those_o minister_n who_o the_o apostle_n do_v ordain_v can_v ordain_v other_o but_o to_o be_v sure_a they_o do_v 2_o i_o desire_n a_o text_n of_o scripture_n that_o hold_v out_o this_o that_o the_o people_n may_v ordain_v in_o a_o general_a apostasy_n 3_o i_o doubt_v we_o shall_v rare_o find_v such_o time_n when_o there_o be_v a_o society_n of_o godly_a christian_n to_o ordain_v but_o there_o be_v some_o minister_n also_o ordinary_o there_o be_v minister_n who_o teach_v this_o people_n 4_o it_o will_v be_v a_o question_n whether_o the_o apostasy_n have_v be_v such_o as_o to_o require_v this_o for_o if_o baptism_n be_v not_o repeat_v but_o be_v think_v valid_a though_o administer_v by_o a_o romish_a minister_n because_o he_o be_v set_v apart_o to_o the_o work_n and_o keep_v the_o essence_n of_o the_o ordinance_n why_o may_v not_o the_o ordination_n administer_v by_o those_o minister_n hold_v as_o well_o 2_o a_o second_o ground_n that_o make_v i_o doubt_n be_v this_o it_o seem_v strange_a to_o i_o that_o christ_n shall_v appoint_v extraordinary_a officer_n and_o make_v that_o a_o part_n of_o their_o work_n which_o the_o people_n themselves_o may_v do_v paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o ordain_v but_o what_o need_v that_o the_o people_n may_v well_o say_v what_o need_n paul_n leave_v titus_n to_o do_v that_o which_o we_o can_v do_v ourselves_o frustra_fw-la fit_a per_fw-la plura_fw-la etc._n etc._n the_o apostle_n never_o need_v but_o to_o preach_v and_o convert_v the_o people_n to_o the_o faith_n when_o they_o have_v do_v so_o they_o shall_v have_v say_v we_o have_v now_o do_v our_o work_n bring_v you_o to_o be_v believer_n you_o may_v now_o elect_v a_o officer_n and_o ordain_v he_o yourselves_o the_o power_n be_v you_o only_o here_o will_v have_v be_v some_o trouble_n about_o baptise_v since_o than_o i_o find_v that_o this_o be_v part_n of_o their_o office_n than_o i_o can_v believe_v this_o be_v the_o people_n work_n paul_n may_v easy_o have_v leave_v we_o a_o precedent_n in_o some_o society_n of_o christian_n that_o will_v have_v quiet_v all_o our_o dispute_n more_o may_v be_v say_v and_o be_v say_v by_o other_o but_o i_o see_v our_o new_a england_n divine_v do_v almost_o yield_v it_o by_o give_v power_n to_o some_o minister_n to_o ordain_v in_o other_o congregation_n since_o nothing_o can_v be_v draw_v from_o scripture_n by_o precept_n or_o example_n to_o prove_v this_o hence_o some_o will_v draw_v it_o out_o by_o argument_n those_o who_o can_v do_v the_o great_a may_v do_v the_o less_o the_o people_n can_v do_v the_o great_a viz._n elect_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v as_o free_o deny_v as_o it_o be_v affirm_v election_n be_v not_o the_o great_a scripture-light_n be_v judge_n that_o be_v the_o design_n i_o doubt_v of_o make_v ordination_n but_o a_o adjunct_n for_o so_o indeed_o it_o will_v easy_o be_v grant_v if_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n and_o this_o only_o be_v a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n may_v well_o ordain_v yea_o and_o in_o a_o church_n where_o there_o be_v officer_n to_o ordain_v i_o know_v not_o why_o they_o who_o give_v the_o essence_n may_v not_o give_v the_o adjunct_n why_o shall_v a_o adjunct_n be_v proper_a to_o the_o officer_n only_o in_o that_o church_n when_o the_o essence_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o they_o 10._o mr._n n._n w._n omnis_fw-la quaestio_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la aliud_fw-la quod_fw-la quaeritur_fw-la babebit_fw-la resolutionem_fw-la nec_fw-la ambiguitas_fw-la per_fw-la ambiguitatem_fw-la sed_fw-la ex_fw-la elaris_fw-la manifestis_fw-la etc._n etc._n irenae_n l._n 2._o c._n 10._o further_o than_o as_o member_n they_o join_v with_o the_o people_n for_o so_o it_o seem_v the_o officer_n elect_v as_o member_n and_o if_o you_o do_v elect_v only_o as_o member_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o also_o ordain_v as_o member_n for_o election_n be_v the_o great_a this_o the_o less_o the_o other_o argument_n be_v the_o people_n be_v the_o first_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n ergo_fw-la but_o this_o be_v not_o easy_o yield_v it_o be_v a_o
must_v not_o go_v to_o they_o but_o similia_fw-la ad_fw-la pompam_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la pugnam_fw-la the_o analogy_n between_o a_o commonwealth_n and_o the_o church_n will_v not_o hold_v as_o i_o may_v touch_v afterward_o but_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a according_a to_o that_o practice_n that_o seven_o make_v a_o church_n they_o may_v admit_v five_o or_o six_o whole_a church_n and_o a_o pastor_n choose_v by_o none_o of_o they_o may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n to_o they_o all_o at_o one_o time_n but_o do_v we_o find_v whole_a corporation_n go_v to_o the_o mayor_n of_o another_o corporation_n for_o justice_n mr._n philip_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n in_o water-town_n while_o mr._n wilson_n pastor_n of_o the_o church_n of_o boston_n be_v here_o in_o england_n go_v to_o boston_n and_o administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o that_o church_n i_o be_v not_o then_o in_o the_o country_n but_o i_o hear_v of_o it_o soon_o after_o when_o i_o go_v over_o with_o mr._n wilson_n i_o know_v no_o sin_n in_o that_o act_n i_o think_v to_o have_v give_v some_o instance_n how_o frequent_a this_o be_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 196_o vind._n cath._n à _fw-la 192_o ad_fw-la 196_o for_o one_o minister_n to_o act_v official_o beyond_o the_o people_n who_o elect_v he_o but_o mr._n hudson_n a_o man_n far_o more_o able_a have_v set_v down_o those_o example_n which_o i_o will_v have_v give_v and_o many_o more_o to_o who_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n yea_o it_o be_v ordinary_a for_o the_o member_n of_o one_o church_n to_o dwell_v one_o or_o two_o year_n nay_o six_o or_o seven_o year_n in_o another_o town_n and_o to_o partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n there_o as_o frequent_o as_o any_o of_o the_o member_n of_o that_o church_n indeed_o of_o late_a the_o elder_n have_v not_o like_v this_o to_o have_v they_o live_v so_o remote_a from_o the_o inspection_n of_o their_o own_o officer_n and_o therefore_o have_v require_v such_o to_o join_v with_o the_o church_n where_o they_o dwell_v this_o be_v good_a and_o orderly_a the_o letter_n also_o of_o recommendation_n which_o the_o church_n make_v for_o the_o member_n when_o they_o come_v over_o hither_o require_v of_o the_o church_n here_o what_o communion_n counsel_n or_o comfort_n they_o shall_v need_v promise_v the_o performance_n of_o the_o like_a debt_n to_o other_o etc._n etc._n 2._o also_o i_o see_v if_o a_o man_n be_v excommunicate_v out_o of_o one_o church_n he_o stand_v excommunicate_v out_o of_o they_o all_o but_o if_o a_o man_n be_v disfranchise_v in_o one_o corporation_n another_o corporation_n may_v receive_v he_o and_o give_v he_o his_o freedom_n if_o they_o please_v this_o show_v there_o be_v something_o more_o in_o a_o church_n then_o in_o a_o commonwealth_n 3._o i_o see_v they_o preach_v frequent_o in_o other_o church_n but_o that_o it_o shall_v be_v only_o as_o gift_a brethren_n this_o be_v so_o harsh_a to_o conceive_v i_o pray_v what_o act_n do_v the_o mayor_n of_o one_o corporation_n do_v in_o another_o corporation_n like_o this_o that_o carry_v authority_n in_o it_o and_o that_o here_o we_o must_v distinguish_v of_o the_o mayor_n if_o he_o do_v this_o at_o home_n he_o do_v it_o as_o a_o mayor_n authoritative_o but_o in_o this_o corporation_n he_o do_v it_o as_o a_o private_a man_n further_o they_o be_v minister_n or_o pastor_n only_o to_o those_o who_o elect_v and_o the_o fraternity_n only_o elect_v where_o there_o be_v no_o officer_n but_o there_o be_v divers_a in_o the_o several_a town_n who_o be_v not_o join_v to_o the_o church_n so_o they_o do_v not_o elect_v than_o it_o seem_v they_o preach_v as_o pastor_n only_o to_o those_o who_o elect_v but_o to_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o town_n as_o gift_a man_n consequent_o when_o god_n bless_v their_o labour_n to_o the_o conversion_n of_o any_o of_o those_o they_o convert_v they_o instrumental_o not_o as_o minister_n of_o christ_n ordain_v separate_v to_o that_o work_n but_o only_o as_o gift_a man_n yea_o they_o never_o convert_v any_o as_o minister_n unless_o some_o of_o those_o who_o elect_v they_o be_v close_a hypocrite_n and_o so_o they_o convert_v they_o but_o ordinary_o those_o who_o choose_v be_v repute_v godly_a already_o and_o they_o be_v minister_n only_o to_o they_o hence_o rise_v that_o vile_a notion_n that_o some_o here_o have_v take_v up_o that_o pastor_n shall_v preach_v only_o to_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o saint_n not_o to_o other_o 4._o i_o have_v hear_v since_o i_o come_v away_o that_o when_o people_n have_v choose_v a_o officer_n and_o have_v no_o officer_n to_o ordain_v he_o that_o the_o minister_n of_o other_o congregation_n have_v do_v it_o and_o the_o confession_n of_o church-discipline_n by_o the_o synod_n of_o new_a england_n as_o also_o mr._n hooker_n 59_o survey_v part_n 2._o pag._n 59_o allow_v as_o much_o 5._o if_o one_o congregation_n shall_v prove_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a and_o heretical_a then_o though_o they_o do_v not_o formal_o excommunicate_v such_o a_o congregation_n yet_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o country_n will_v proceed_v to_o the_o non-communion_n of_o such_o a_o church_n and_o for_o all_o the_o church_n to_o express_v so_o much_o to_o such_o a_o church_n we_o do_v all_o renounce_v communion_n with_o you_o etc._n etc._n this_o amount_n to_o a_o censure_n and_o be_v equivalent_a to_o excommunication_n contain_v in_o it_o all_o the_o effect_n that_o appear_v in_o excommunication_n and_o so_o i_o shall_v reckon_v myself_o as_o much_o excommunicate_v mr._n burrough_n say_v they_o may_v by_o a_o solemn_a act_n in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n 43._o iren._n 43._o refuse_v any_o communion_n with_o they_o till_o they_o repent_v they_o may_v declare_v in_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n that_o these_o err_a church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v receive_v into_o fellowship_n with_o any_o church_n of_o christ_n nor_o to_o have_v communion_n one_o with_o another_o in_o the_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n all_o this_o solemn_o in_o christ_n name_n only_o some_o may_v be_v will_v say_v if_o this_o be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o christ_n bring_v out_o the_o text_n to_o prove_v this_o and_o then_o we_o shall_v see_v if_o those_o text_n will_v not_o bear_v it_o out_o that_o the_o church_n unite_v thus_o in_o this_o censure_n have_v not_o some_o authority_n over_o that_o particular_a church_n if_o you_o go_v to_o the_o old_a polity_n the_o synedrion_n have_v power_n over_o particular_a congregation_n if_o to_o light_v of_o nature_n that_o will_v carry_v it_o so_o that_o we_o must_v have_v text_n to_o decide_v this_o question_n for_o my_o part_n i_o must_v leave_v this_o to_o better_a head_n lay_v all_o together_o the_o church_n seem_v to_o pactise_v as_o if_o there_o be_v such_o a_o church_n some_o thing_n there_o be_v which_o a_o little_a trouble_n i_o in_o this_o notion_n that_o make_v i_o not_o come_v off_o so_o roundly_o in_o receive_v it_o i_o question_v not_o the_o church-catholicke-visible_a but_o i_o mean_v that_o it_o be_v one_o organical_a body_n but_o as_o he_o say_v veritas_fw-la est_fw-la temporis_fw-la filia_fw-la so_o i_o believe_v time_n will_v cleave_v out_o this_o but_o so_o much_o i_o see_v as_o command_v i_o to_o lean_a to_o that_o side_n i_o be_v think_v how_o dangerous_a this_o may_v prove_v if_o the_o major_a part_n of_o the_o catholick-visible-church_n shall_v decline_v grow_v superstitious_a etc._n etc._n other_o church_n yet_o remain_v pure_a if_o they_o do_v not_o subject_a to_o the_o major_a part_n what_o then_o but_o i_o see_v inconvenience_n also_o on_o the_o other_o side_n if_o a_o congregation_n be_v so_o entire_a that_o they_o can_v elect_v ordain_v and_o be_v exempt_v from_o all_o power_n than_o arian_n photinian_o and_o all_o manner_n of_o heretic_n may_v elect_v ordain_v etc._n etc._n who_o shall_v deny_v they_o and_o beside_o suppose_v the_o major_a part_n of_o congregationall_a church_n shall_v decline_v they_o will_v proceed_v to_o non-communion_n of_o other_o particular_a church_n more_o pure_a and_o this_o be_v in_o a_o manner_n all_o one_o further_o if_o so_o then_o if_o a_o minister_n be_v remove_v from_o one_o congregation_n to_o another_o or_o if_o his_o people_n shall_v die_v he_o now_o be_v but_o a_o private_a person_n and_o may_v nor_o baptise_v etc._n etc._n hence_o also_o he_o must_v have_v another_o ordination_n when_o elect_v and_o as_o oft_o as_o he_o be_v elect_v it_o i_o have_v not_o hear_v any_o there_o but_o here_o allege_v it_o i_o confess_v i_o be_o not_o clear_a in_o the_o practice_n i_o have_v search_v to_o find_v what_o scripturall_a ground_n there_o be_v for_o it_o but_o i_o find_v none_o that_o these_o reverend_n elder_n express_v some_o have_v allege_v in_o conference_n that_o act._n 13.3_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v ordain_v before_o and_o now_o they_o be_v ordain_v again_o but_o i_o find_v mr._n
hooker_n say_v 25._o to._n 4._o l._n 4._o c._n 24._o s_o 25._o here_o be_v no_o ordination_n to_o office_n at_o all_o survey_v part_n 2._o pag._n 83._o then_o i_o perceive_v this_o will_v not_o warrant_v it_o i_o find_v learned_a chamier_n also_o of_o that_o opinion_n he_o say_v loc._n so_o our_o english_a annotation_n and_o calv._n in_o loc._n there_o be_v not_o proper_o any_o ordination_n into_o a_o new_a ecclesiastical_a office_n but_o confirmatio_fw-la missionis_fw-la ad_fw-la gentes_fw-la ad_fw-la quas_fw-la nondum_fw-la erant_fw-la ex_fw-la professò_fw-la missi_fw-la the_o author_n of_o the_o diatribe_n say_v they_o be_v minister_n before_o act._n 12._o ult_n but_o i_o doubt_v that_o place_n will_v not_o prove_v it_o for_o their_o fulfil_n of_o their_o ministry_n or_o charge_n there_o may_v refer_v to_o c._n 11.29_o 30._o the_o carry_v of_o the_o relief_n to_o the_o saint_n at_o jerusalem_n which_o they_o may_v do_v though_o no_o apostle_n here_o than_o we_o be_v in_o the_o dark_a what_o to_o judge_v of_o the_o text_n if_o we_o rest_v only_o upon_o man_n opinion_n there_o be_v many_o who_o be_v for_o the_o contrary_a opinion_n that_o here_o be_v ordination_n as_o i_o have_v name_v before_o and_o i_o think_v those_o who_o chamier_n quote_v in_o the_o twenty_o section_n of_o the_o former_a chapter_n conceive_v so_o say_v he_o act._n 13._o imponuntur_fw-la manus_fw-la paulo_n &_o barnabae_n mittendis_fw-la ad_fw-la evangelii_n praedicationem_fw-la in_o gentes_fw-la quid_fw-la hoc_fw-la est_fw-la chrysostomus_n theophylactus_n oecumenius_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d ad_fw-la apostolatum_fw-la i_o think_v when_o i_o see_v here_o be_v the_o same_o act_n do_v which_o be_v do_v at_o another_o ordination_n and_o there_o be_v no_o ordination_n before_o nor_o after_o where_o any_o more_o act_n be_v do_v why_o this_o shall_v not_o be_v understand_v for_o ordination_n i_o know_v not_o a_o man_n to_o be_v separate_v to_o the_o work_n whereunto_o god_n call_v he_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n therefore_o to_o have_v prayer_n fast_v and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n this_o be_v do_v at_o other_o ordination_n when_o other_o be_v separate_v though_o not_o to_o be_v apostle_n as_o these_o be_v i_o dare_v not_o say_v that_o these_o be_v not_o apostle_n before_o now_o because_o i_o see_v so_o many_o divine_n be_v of_o that_o opinion_n for_o barnabas_n we_o find_v he_o make_v mention_n of_o act._n 4.36_o a_o levite_n and_o a_o man_n of_o excellent_a gift_n no_o doubt_n as_o it_o appear_v in_o chap._n 11._o but_o to_o say_v he_o be_v a_o apostle_n before_o i_o do_v not_o see_v it_o make_v so_o clear_a act._n 13.1_o there_o be_v prophet_n and_o teacher_n as_o barnabas_n so_o that_o barnabas_n be_v one_o of_o they_o but_o as_o yet_o not_o a_o apostle_n for_o we_o know_v these_o be_v distinguish_v apostle_n prophet_n etc._n etc._n though_o i_o dare_v not_o gainsay_v it_o but_o impute_v it_o rather_o to_o my_o ignorance_n for_o paul_n there_o seem_v to_o be_v more_o say_v for_o he_o act._n 9_o for_o those_o that_o say_v ananias_n his_o imposition_n of_o hand_n upon_o paul_n be_v to_o separate_v he_o to_o the_o work_n of_o his_o apostleship_n for_o that_o be_v one_o end_n of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n i_o dare_v not_o oppose_v divine_n in_o this_o 24_o pareus_n upon_o gal._n 1.1_o when_o paul_n say_v he_o be_v a_o apostle_n not_o by_o man_n think_v he_o point_v to_o this_o act._n 9_o but_o so_o he_o be_v not_o though_o here_o he_o be_v first_o call_v to_o that_o office_n for_o his_o call_n be_v immediate_a as_o chamier_n note_v to._n 4._o l._n 4._o c._n 24_o the_o 12._o vers_fw-la say_v he_o see_v one_o in_o a_o vision_n put_v his_o hand_n upon_o he_o that_o he_o may_v receive_v his_o sight_n and_o ananias_n say_v vers_fw-la 17._o the_o lord_n have_v send_v i_o that_o thou_o may_v receive_v thy_o sight_n and_o be_v fill_v with_o the_o holy_a ghost_n now_o if_o that_o necessary_o imply_v that_o ergo_fw-la now_o he_o be_v ordain_v to_o his_o apostleship_n i_o will_v not_o oppose_v though_o it_o be_v possible_a that_o may_v be_v though_o he_o be_v not_o yet_o a_o apostle_n and_o this_o be_v somewhat_o different_a from_o other_o that_o first_o ananias_n alone_o second_o in_o a_o private_a house_n the_o question_n be_v who_o be_v with_o paul_n in_o the_o house_n 3._o before_o he_o be_v baptize_v shall_v be_v ordain_v thus_o to_o be_v a_o apostle_n though_o i_o can_v oppose_v much_o for_o if_o christ_n will_v have_v it_o it_o be_v orderly_o enough_o but_o if_o they_o be_v man_n extraordinary_o qualify_v and_o not_o set_v apart_o to_o the_o office_n of_o their_o apostleship_n than_o this_o place_n of_o act._n 13.3_o may_v be_v interpret_v of_o their_o ordination_n to_o the_o office_n of_o their_o apostleship_n but_o suppose_v they_o be_v apostle_n yet_o will_v this_o text_n be_v sufficient_a proof_n to_o maintain_v that_o minister_n must_v be_v new_o ordain_v if_o they_o remove_v from_o one_o particular_a congregation_n to_o another_o i_o be_o sure_a there_o may_v be_v sufficient_a ground_n give_v why_o they_o may_v remove_v if_o indeed_o the_o case_n be_v now_o as_o than_o it_o be_v with_o the_o gentile_n act._n 11.19_o the_o scatter_a disciple_n preach_v to_o the_o jew_n only_o but_o the_o g_z entile_n have_v none_o send_v among_o they_o before_o in_o this_o manner_n as_o those_o be_v send_v though_o peter_n have_v be_v with_o cornelius_n to_o be_v apostle_n of_o the_o gentile_n we_o may_v allow_v a_o second_o ordination_n in_o antiquity_n we_o do_v not_o find_v a_o second_o ordination_n make_v mention_v of_o something_o we_o find_v to_o the_o contrary_a as_o in_o that_o tract_n of_o cyprian_a which_o though_o it_o may_v be_v prove_v not_o to_o be_v cyprian_n own_o yet_o no_o doubt_n the_o author_n may_v be_v as_o ancient_a as_o cyprian_a write_v in_o his_o time_n as_o pamelius_n observe_v neither_o do_v goulartius_n oppose_v he_o in_o it_o pedum_fw-la de_fw-fr ablutione_n pedum_fw-la nemo_fw-la sacros_fw-la ordines_fw-la semel_fw-la datos_fw-la iterum_fw-la renovat_fw-la etc._n etc._n in_o the_o 67._o can._n apost_n thus_o si_fw-mi quis_fw-la episcopus_fw-la aut_fw-la presbyter_n aut_fw-la diaconus_fw-la secundam_fw-la ab_fw-la aliquo_fw-la ordinationem_fw-la susceperit_fw-la deponiter_fw-la tà m_fw-la ipse_fw-la quam_fw-la qui_fw-la ipsum_fw-la ordinavit_fw-la nisi_fw-la forte_fw-fr constet_fw-la ordinationem_fw-la eum_fw-la babere_fw-la ab_fw-la haereticis_fw-la etc._n etc._n augustine_n speak_v of_o baptism_n and_o ordination_n say_v 13._o contra_fw-la permian_n l._n 2._o c._n 13._o utrumque_fw-la enim_fw-la sacramentum_fw-la est_fw-la &_o quadam_fw-la consecratione_fw-la utrumque_fw-la homini_fw-la datur_fw-la illud_fw-la cum_fw-la baptizatur_fw-la istud_fw-la cum_fw-la ordinatur_fw-la ideoque_fw-la in_o catholicâ_fw-la utrumque_fw-la non_fw-la licet_fw-la iterari_fw-la to_o the_o same_o purpose_n he_o speak_v in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr bono_fw-mi conjugali_fw-la contra_fw-la jovin_n c._n 24._o from_o which_o place_n i_o gather_v it_o be_v not_o their_o manner_n to_o iterate_v ordination_n indeed_o scripture_n and_o strong_a argument_n be_v more_o than_o humane_a testimony_n but_o that_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o say_v ordination_n be_v but_o the_o approbation_n of_o a_o person_n constitute_v in_o his_o office_n unless_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v that_o ordination_n be_v no_o more_o which_o will_v easy_o be_v deny_v for_o our_o modern_a divine_n i_o do_v not_o know_v any_o that_o maintain_v this_o iteration_n of_o ordination_n in_o case_n a_o man_n remove_v from_o the_o place_n where_o he_o be_v first_o ordain_v the_o second_o argument_n which_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n use_v to_o prove_v that_o election_n give_v the_o essential_o etc._n etc._n be_v this_o it_o be_v lawful_a for_o the_o people_n to_o reject_v a_o pastor_n upon_o just_a cause_n and_o put_v he_o out_o of_o his_o office_n ergo_fw-la it_o be_v in_o their_o power_n to_o call_v he_o outward_o and_o put_v he_o into_o his_o office_n by_o this_o rejection_n he_o mean_v excommunication_n for_o so_o he_o say_v afterward_o this_o rejection_n cut_v he_o off_o from_o be_v a_o member_n etc._n etc._n so_o consequent_o it_o must_v needs_o make_v he_o cease_v from_o be_v a_o officer_n for_o that_o phrase_n of_o put_v he_o into_o his_o office_n if_o it_o be_v take_v secundum_fw-la quid_fw-la and_o as_o to_o their_o officer_n it_o have_v not_o be_v oppose_v but_o if_o take_v absolute_o that_o their_o election_n make_v he_o a_o minister_n as_o mr._n hooker_n do_v that_o be_v it_o which_o be_v deny_v as_o for_o the_o antecedent_n whether_o people_n have_v power_n to_o reject_v or_o if_o you_o mean_v excommunication_n as_o it_o seem_v that_o be_v mean_v that_o be_v another_o question_n if_o there_o be_v officer_n and_o the_o people_n consent_n with_o they_o to_o cast_v out_o a_o officer_n pertinacious_o scandalous_a and_o heretical_a none_o doubt_v of_o that_o but_o for_o
the_o people_n be_v but_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n to_o reject_v i.e._n excommunicate_v a_o ossicer_n will_v cost_v more_o to_o prove_v have_v reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v alive_a and_o see_v what_o work_v church-member_n make_v here_o in_o england_n in_o very_a many_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v have_v cause_v he_o to_o bethink_v himself_o again_o of_o the_o people_n power_n something_o we_o hear_v of_o be_v do_v in_o a_o church_n not_o far_o from_o the_o place_n where_o he_o live_v it_o can_v be_v keep_v close_o the_o light_n of_o that_o fire_n shine_v into_o england_n for_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o such_o a_o officer_n when_o there_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n to_o join_v with_o they_o to_o excommunicate_v he_o this_o be_v not_o deny_v for_o by_o their_o subjection_n to_o he_o they_o make_v he_o their_o officer_n that_o be_v some_o part_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n again_o but_o for_o excommunication_n mr._n cotton_n say_v it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n in_o the_o church_n 16_o key_n p._n 16_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n mr._n burrough_n say_v 51._o iren._n 51._o if_o the_o church_n be_v without_o officer_n they_o can_v do_v that_o which_o belong_v to_o officer_n to_o do_v they_o have_v no_o sacrament_n among_o they_o neither_o can_v they_o have_v any_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o only_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o withdraw_v from_o such_o as_o walk_v disorderly_a for_o their_o own_o preservation_n so_o then_o here_o be_v a_o way_n for_o the_o people_n to_o preserve_v themselves_o though_o they_o can_v excommunicate_v and_o those_o text_n which_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n bring_v matth._n 7.15_o and_o phil._n 3.2_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o church_n as_o a_o homogencal_a body_n to_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v their_o officer_n though_o they_o may_v prove_v withdraw_v as_o also_o rom._n 16.17_o may_v prove_v it_o for_o the_o reason_n of_o his_o consequence_n that_o staple_n rule_n ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la instituere_fw-la destituere_fw-la this_o maxim_n be_v turn_v every_o way_n sometime_o to_o prove_v the_o people_n may_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n because_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la the_o people_n in_o election_n put_v forth_o no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o they_o may_v put_v forth_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o excommunication_n that_o there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o election_n doctor_n ames_n acknowledge_v ovas_n rationales_fw-la possunt_fw-la eligere_fw-la sibi_fw-la pastorem_fw-la sicut_fw-la sponsa_fw-la eligit_fw-la sibisponsum_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la jurisdictionem_fw-la aut_fw-la gubernationem_fw-la sed_fw-la potius_fw-la per_fw-la subjectionem_fw-la in_o the_o answer_n before_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o and_o elsewhere_o now_o what_o argue_v be_v this_o 13._o bellar._n enter_fw-mi to_o 2_o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 19_o ib._n s._n 13._o to_o argue_v from_o subjection_n to_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v no_o authority_n in_o election_n for_o electio_fw-la non_fw-la cogit_fw-la yet_o there_o be_v more_o power_n see_v in_o civil_a election_n than_o church-election_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v afterward_o but_o in_o excommunication_n authority_n appear_v that_o also_o be_v deny_v that_o the_o people_n do_v instituere_fw-la in_o constitute_v chruche_n and_o ordinary_o what_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n be_v no_o ordinary_a rule_n here_o the_o maxim_n be_v turn_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o may_v jnstituere_fw-la because_o they_o can_v destituere_fw-la but_o that_o will_v be_v deny_v unless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o sense_n before_o mention_v i._n e._n in_o what_o manner_n and_o how_o far_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la i.e._n by_o a_o subjection_n to_o be_v their_o officer_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o he_o and_o not_o own_v he_o to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v more_o quest_n but_o suppose_v this_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o fraternity_n can_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n but_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n they_o may_v you_o say_v and_o so_o he_o cease_v to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o what_o be_v he_o now_o a_o officer_n to_o other_o church_n a._n if_o the_o withdraw_a their_o subjection_n and_o reject_v be_v irregular_a then_o though_o they_o make_v he_o not_o their_o officer_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la which_o he_o be_v still_o the_o jure_fw-la yet_o his_o relation_n to_o the_o church-catholick_n visible_a do_v still_o hold_v and_o another_o church_n give_v he_o a_o call_v he_o have_v then_o power_n actu_fw-la secundâ—_n to_o administer_v the_o ordinance_n there_o for_o instance_n the_o separatist_n cast_v off_o he_o who_o before_o they_o choose_v for_o their_o officer_n suppose_v now_o unless_o he_o will_v renounce_v his_o ordination_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n do_v he_o therefore_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n how_o bufie_v some_o congregationall_a church_n be_v in_o withdraw_a from_o their_o officer_n it_o be_v too_o manifest_a and_o many_o go_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n some_o turn_v seeker_n andif_a all_o the_o member_n do_v thus_o do_v they_o now_o cease_v to_o be_v minister_n 2_o but_o if_o the_o withdraw_a be_v regular_a the_o cause_n just_a try_v etc._n etc._n then_o that_o which_o be_v sufficient_a ground_n for_o their_o withdraw_a from_o he_o be_v just_a cause_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v excommunicate_v be_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a or_o heretical_a as_o mr._n hooker_n suppose_v if_o then_o the_o case_n of_o a_o church_n be_v so_o as_o they_o be_v cast_v by_o providence_n into_o some_o remote_a place_n where_o be_v no_o church_n beside_o to_o combine_v with_o then_o as_o their_o election_n of_o he_o etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v before_o may_v supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n so_o this_o withdraw_a in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v be_v analogum_fw-la to_o excommunication_n but_o say_v our_o divine_n if_o that_o church_n be_v in_o combination_n with_o other_o church_n as_o now_o under_o a_o classis_fw-la than_o the_o people_n shall_v not_o need_v to_o stay_v there_o in_o their_o withdraw_a but_o the_o case_n be_v judge_v and_o try_v by_o the_o classis_fw-la they_o as_o they_o ordain_v he_o when_o the_o people_n elect_v he_o the_o people_n consent_v do_v excommunicate_v he_o then_o as_o a_o man_n cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n visible_a so_o he_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o officer_n to_o this_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o minister_n to_o the_o church-catholicke_a visible_a for_o the_o other_o argument_n 78_o burro_fw-la iren_n p._n 50_o nort._n resp_n ad_fw-la apoll._n p._n 76_o 78_o the_o people_n convey_v of_o power_n to_o a_o officer_n i_o know_v of_o no_o power_n the_o people_n convey_v only_o a_o designation_n of_o such_o a_o person_n to_o officiate_v in_o this_o or_o that_o society_n but_o their_o power_n they_o receive_v from_o christ_n immediate_o as_o our_o congregationall_a man_n affirm_v and_o hence_o they_o act_v in_o his_o name_n not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n 5_o the_o last_o answer_n i_o will_v give_v to_o this_o proposal_n be_v this_o if_o you_o conceive_v this_o to_o be_v the_o only_a way_n of_o reformation_n than_o you_o must_v give_v the_o minister_n strong_a proof_n that_o you_o may_v ordain_v the_o minister_n will_v as_o much_o question_n your_o power_n to_o ordain_v as_o you_o question_v the_o bishop_n power_n so_o that_o we_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v this_o because_o you_o be_v so_o punctual_a you_o say_v for_o reform_v by_o the_o word_n but_o of_o this_o practice_n i_o much_o doubt_n 1_o my_o ground_n be_v because_o i_o find_v not_o one_o jota_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n obj._n though_o you_o do_v not_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n yet_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n there_o be_v numb_a 8.10_o a._n that_o place_n be_v the_o only_a resuge_n but_o 1_o it_o be_v common_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v no_o fair_a argue_v to_o go_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o one_o thing_n we_o will_v have_v and_o when_o another_o come_v to_o the_o same_o polity_n for_o a_o argument_n for_o their_o turn_n now_o to_o debar_v they_o and_o tell_v they_o this_o be_v the_o old_a polity_n either_o leave_n out_o the_o jewish_a polity_n altogether_o or_o else_o give_v other_o leave_v to_o fetch_v argument_n from_o thence_o as_o well_o as_o yourselves_o 2_o if_o you_o will_v go_v to_o that_o polity_n why_o may_v i_o not_o as_o well_o prove_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v ordain_v as_o well_o as_o moses_n do_v aaron_n levit._n 8._o 3_o but_o in_o that_o church_n at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v officer_n aaron_z and_o his_o son_n thence_o if_o that_o be_v a_o rule_n it_o must_v follow_v
proceed_v whether_o the_o people_n obey_v or_o not_o it_o be_v therefore_o their_o revenge_n by_o way_n of_o censure_n in_o discipline_n which_o they_o have_v in_o readiness_n when_o the_o obedience_n of_o the_o church_n be_v fulfil_v in_o discern_v and_o approve_v the_o equity_n of_o the_o censure_n which_o the_o apostle_n or_o elder_n have_v declare_v to_o they_o from_o the_o word_n that_o phrase_n discern_v and_o approve_v of_o the_o equity_n needs_o a_o little_a more_o clear_v but_o i_o leave_v they_o however_o this_o reverend_n divine_a seem_v to_o refer_v that_o obedience_n unto_o the_o will_n of_o christ_n by_o the_o word_n go_v before_o his_o exposition_n yet_o that_o hinder_v not_o but_o it_o may_v in_o some_o sense_n be_v apply_v to_o their_o officer_n who_o also_o obey_v christ_n for_o that_o phrase_n be_v not_o strange_a to_o have_v people_n obey_v their_o officer_n heb._n 13.17_o o_o bey_z your_o ruler_n there_o may_v be_v some_o thing_n in_o it_o not_o only_o obey_v your_o teacher_n but_o ruler_n when_o they_o rule_v as_o when_o they_o preach_v mr._n norton_n express_v 67._o resp_n ad_fw-la apol._n p._n 67._o as_o i_o conceive_v how_o the_o brethren_n act_v with_o the_o eldership_n for_o so_o i_o remember_v it_o be_v in_o his_o table_n which_o i_o have_v &_o have_v some_o thought_n to_o have_v print_v they_o but_o in_o that_o great_a fire_n when_o colchester_n be_v besiege_v have_v lend_v they_o to_o a_o friend_n they_o be_v burn_v as_o i_o hear_v part_n judicii_fw-la in_o rebus_fw-la jurisdictionis_fw-la quales_fw-la sunt_fw-la fratrum_fw-la examinatio_fw-la dijudicatio_fw-la &_o sententiatio_fw-la causae_fw-la per_fw-la modum_fw-la obedientiae_fw-la presbyterio_n debitae_fw-la 2_o cor._n 10.16_o &_o cap._n 2.9_o mr._n gillespie_n also_o beside_o his_o own_o opinion_n give_v reason_n etc._n aar_n rod_n p._n 289_o etc._n etc._n and_o allege_v divers_a divine_n who_o interpret_v this_o place_n of_o church_n censure_n &_o these_o word_n when_o your_o obedience_n be_v fulfil_v give_v he_o one_o ground_n for_o his_o interpretation_n for_o as_o estius_n and_o novarinus_n explain_v the_o apostle_n reason_n it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o excommunicate_v all_o such_o as_o be_v worthy_a of_o excommunication_n when_o there_o be_v a_o general_a renitency_n in_o the_o church_n but_o still_o we_o observe_v the_o people_n act_v obediential_o to_o their_o officer_n that_o they_o do_v not_o at_o that_o time_n be_v their_o fault_n beside_o if_o excommunication_n be_v the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v where_o ruler_n be_v not_o as_o say_v mr._n cotton_n and_o if_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n can_v express_v no_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n but_o only_o withdraw_v as_o say_v master_n burrough_n than_o the_o people_n have_v ruler_n be_v not_o now_o make_v ruler_n nor_o have_v the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v indeed_o jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o ruler_n to_o who_o 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the_o church_n of_o the_o jew_n before_o the_o captivity_n say_v how_o many_o year_n boldness_n alsle_n chron._n p._n 2153._o goodw._n mo._n ar._n l._n 1._o c._n 10._o chemnitius_n in_o 10._o joh._n take_v thief_n there_o to_o be_v the_o pharisee_n for_o their_o order_n be_v not_o institute_v by_o god_n nor_o bring_v in_o by_o the_o prophet_n but_o only_o a_o humane_a invention_n and_o through_o their_o own_o boldness_n afterward_o when_o christ_n come_v be_v they_o clear_a what_o think_v you_o then_o of_o corrupt_a caiphas_n the_o high_a priest_n his_o corrupt_a enter_v into_o and_o his_o continuance_n in_o the_o place_n for_o one_o year_n so_o the_o pharisee_n a_o generation_n that_o god_n never_o institute_v their_o school_n begin_v some_o say_v two_o hundred_o and_o forty_o year_n some_o say_v more_o before_o christ_n and_o for_o their_o superstitious_a invention_n they_o be_v not_o barren_a in_o they_o but_o do_v christ_n so_o soon_o as_o he_o come_v to_o preach_v call_v away_o the_o people_n and_o bid_v they_o separate_v here_o be_v corrupt_a officer_n etc._n etc._n no_o we_o find_v no_o such_o word_n nay_o he_o bid_v then_o hear_v matth._n 23._o after_o christ_n i_o pray_v tell_v i_o how_o long_o do_v the_o church_n continue_v without_o superstitious_a mixture_n i_o doubt_v you_o will_v find_v the_o church_n have_v not_o be_v long_o free_a but_o we_o do_v not_o find_v separation_n present_o and_o null_v of_o minister_n as_o now_o man_n shall_v do_v well_o to_o give_v we_o a_o precept_n or_o example_n out_o of_o the_o word_n where_o ordinance_n have_v be_v dispense_v true_a for_o the_o substance_n though_o some_o humane_a mixture_n have_v be_v join_v to_o they_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v iterate_v if_o they_o can_v give_v we_o a_o direct_a precept_n or_o example_n show_v we_o it_o by_o a_o necessary_a consequence_n from_o scripture_n i_o wonder_v man_n shall_v be_v so_o forward_o to_o iterate_v baptism_n and_o ordination_n as_o these_o separatist_n call_v for_o without_o scripturall_a ground_n 9_o there_o be_v hundred_o of_o minister_n in_o england_n who_o be_v not_o ordain_v by_o bishop_n but_o you_o separate_v from_o those_o also_o they_o have_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n first_o then_o with_o fast_v and_o prayer_n solemnly_z set_z apart_z to_o the_o work_n by_o divers_a godly_a and_o learned_a divine_n who_o be_v against_o bishop_n yet_o these_o be_v also_o scorn_v by_o yourselves_o as_o much_o as_o the_o other_o but_o forsooth_o because_o they_o be_v ordain_v by_o bishop_n and_o have_v not_o renounce_v their_o ordination_n and_o take_v their_o ordination_n from_o you_o therefore_o that_o infection_n spread_v even_o to_o all_o generation_n out_o of_o what_o i_o have_v say_v i_o may_v pick_v up_o some_o answer_n to_o this_o but_o for_o trouble_v the_o reader_n and_o the_o truth_n be_v they_o be_v in_o some_o sense_n unreasonable_a man_n i_o deal_v with_o but_o this_o let_v i_o say_v it_o be_v strange_a that_o when_o 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be_v say_v what_o need_v of_o that_o ordination_n they_o may_v preach_v without_o it_o be_v true_a they_o may_v but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o comfortable_a as_o when_o man_n be_v set_v apart_o by_o a_o divine_a institution_n there_o be_v a_o authority_n more_o confer_v they_o may_v now_o baptize_v as_o they_o find_v success_n of_o their_o ministry_n which_o be_v the_o old_a way_n and_o shall_v not_o need_v be_v put_v to_o those_o trouble_n which_o now_o they_o be_v here_o suppose_v laborious_a mr._n eliot_n be_v not_o ordain_v who_o shall_v baptize_v the_o indian_n call_v home_o to_o christ_n by_o he_o the_o first_o preacher_n that_o come_v into_o england_n be_v ordain_v before_o elect_a here_o as_o suppose_v they_o shall_v convert_v divers_a indian_n forty_o or_o fifty_o mile_n from_o any_o plantation_n how_o shall_v these_o be_v baptize_v what_o shall_v they_o now_o elect_v and_o ordain_v these_o man_n shall_v unbaptised_a person_n ordain_v a_o officer_n where_o have_v we_o a_o rule_n for_o that_o then_o it_o seem_v all_o these_o must_v come_v to_o another_o church_n etc._n etc._n forty_o or_o fifty_o mile_n distant_a to_o a_o church_n also_o who_o language_n they_o understand_v not_o and_o there_o be_v baptize_v by_o a_o minister_n who_o they_o understand_v not_o nor_o he_o they_o here_o be_v many_o odd_a thing_n fall_v in_o cross_a to_o all_o scripture_n precedent_n but_o to_o have_v these_o ordain_v and_o send_v forth_o be_v not_o cross_v to_o the_o scripture_n precedent_n but_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v than_o ordination_n without_o election_n may_v give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n but_o further_a here_o you_o say_v election_n give_v the_o essential_o i_o beseech_v you_o what_o shall_v we_o do_v then_o with_o all_o those_o scripture_n where_o ordination_n be_v hold_v out_o so_o full_o shall_v we_o omit_v they_o if_o they_o contain_v but_o a_o adjunct_n no_o i_o be_o sure_a this_o gracious_a saint_n will_v not_o do_v so_o his_o heart_n be_v so_o awe_v with_o high_a thought_n of_o god_n and_o his_o word_n that_o he_o dare_v not_o omit_v such_o a_o divine_a institution_n as_o those_o scripture_n hold_v out_o be_v then_o those_o six_o or_o seven_o scripture_n allege_v for_o ordination_n as_o necessary_a to_o a_o minister_n call_v as_o those_o three_o which_o be_v bring_v for_o election_n if_o not_o i_o pray_v give_v a_o reason_n why_o some_o scripture_n shall_v be_v less_o set_v by_o than_o other_o in_o this_o nature_n divine_a authority_n we_o acknowledge_v in_o both_o but_o this_o be_v far_o from_o this_o reverend_a man_n thought_n for_o we_o see_v he_o prove_v church-discipline_n to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n from_o imposition_n of_o hand_n then_o if_o these_o scripture_n be_v equal_o as_o necessary_a to_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o minister_n that_o none_o must_v dare_v to_o omit_v they_o we_o do_v but_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o say_v that_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n etc._n etc._n in_o constitute_v church_n those_o who_o omit_v ordination_n go_v cross_n to_o those_o many_o text_n of_o scripture_n they_o follow_v not_o the_o pattern_n most_o some_o i_o know_v make_v little_a of_o election_n but_o i_o will_v give_v it_o the_o most_o and_o so_o sin_n against_o the_o second_o commandment_n as_o do_v they_o who_o go_v cross_v to_o the_o text_n for_o election_n and_o if_o election_n in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v serve_v without_o a_o formal_a ordination_n in_o the_o like_a case_n may_v ordination_n be_v without_o election_n and_o so_o we_o be_v even_o further_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o argument_n they_o be_v relate_v suppose_v i_o shall_v say_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n give_v a_o part_n of_o the_o essence_n to_o the_o officer_n for_o so_o we_o consider_v the_o call_n of_o a_o minister_n to_o be_v a_o totum_fw-la arise_v out_o of_o election_n and_o ordination_n as_o doctor_n ames_n it_o may_v be_v you_o will_v say_v relata_fw-la quà _fw-la sic_fw-la do_v not_o give_v a_o part_n of_o the_o essence_n but_o the_o whole_a here_o than_o will_v be_v our_o trouble_n whether_o we_o must_v bring_v scripture_n to_o logic_n or_o carry_v our_o logic_n to_o scripture_n why_o then_o do_v not_o minister_n act_v official_o upon_o bare_a election_n as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o it_o be_v answer_v their_o election_n give_v the_o essence_n as_o he_o be_v their_o minister_n but_o ordination_n give_v the_o essence_n as_o he_o be_v a_o minister_n 151._o mr._n hudson_n have_v speak_v close_o to_o this_o vind._n chur._n cathol_n visâ—â—_n p._n 138._o ad_fw-la 151._o for_o ordination_n do_v invest_v a_o minister_n with_o power_n to_o act_v beyond_o those_o who_o have_v call_v he_o give_v he_o a_o habitual_a power_n in_o actu_fw-la primo_fw-la to_o exercise_n and_o perform_v the_o act_n belong_v to_o his_o office_n elsewhere_o upon_o a_o call_n i_o know_v indeed_o our_o new_a england_n divine_v many_o i_o say_v not_o all_o as_o well_o as_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v of_o another_o opinion_n that_o a_o man_n be_v a_o officer_n only_o to_o his_o own_o particular_a congregation_n relatorum_fw-la mutuum_fw-la est_fw-la iter_fw-la but_o suppose_v i_o shall_v say_v a_o minister_n bear_v a_o habitual_a relation_n to_o the_o whole_a church-catholick_n visible_a which_o some_o of_o our_o divine_n do_v now_o i_o think_v strong_o prove_v for_o my_o part_n i_o can_v never_o swallow_v that_o notion_n that_o a_o pastor_n preach_v only_o as_o a_o pastor_n to_o those_o who_o elect_v he_o and_o to_o other_o church_n as_o a_o gift_a brother_n i_o dare_v bold_o affirm_v in_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o the_o pure_a age_n next_o they_o this_o notion_n be_v never_o hear_v as_o for_o this_o notion_n of_o a_o catholic_n visible_a church_n i_o have_v not_o so_o much_o busy_v my_o head_n about_o it_o till_o of_o late_a &_o in_o my_o weak_a judgement_n i_o think_v there_o be_v so_o much_o say_v for_o it_o by_o mr._n hudson_n especial_o and_o other_o that_o i_o suppose_v it_o will_v not_o easy_o be_v answer_v that_o which_o make_v i_o lean_a to_o this_o opinion_n be_v first_n the_o light_n which_o his_o scripture_n and_o argument_n bring_v along_o with_o they_o 2_o i_o do_v not_o see_v by_o this_o notion_n that_o the_o people_n be_v at_o all_o defraud_a of_o what_o be_v proper_o they_o they_o may_v elect_v officer_n they_o may_v have_v power_n to_o bring_v in_o testimony_n to_o exclude_v unworthy_a communicant_n yea_o or_o may_v object_v against_o any_o who_o shall_v be_v admit_v church-member_n if_o church_n be_v in_o their_o first_o constitute_v if_o they_o know_v good_a reason_n why_o they_o shall_v not_o be_v admit_v neither_o be_v they_o debar_v from_o consent_v with_o their_o officer_n in_o excommunication_n i_o say_v i_o do_v not_o see_v but_o these_o privilege_n may_v consist_v with_o this_o notion_n 3._o impression_n mr._n huds_n vind_z 160._o 161._o let_v particular_a church_n walk_v as_o they_o shall_v regular_o and_o they_o have_v as_o much_o liberty_n as_o they_o can_v desire_v if_o they_o walk_v irregular_o see_v mr._n cotton_v key_n 53.54_o the_o second_o impression_n i_o see_v this_o notion_n do_v not_o cross_v that_o position_n which_o i_o have_v hold_v out_o viz._n that_o a_o particular_a church_n organise_v and_o walk_v regular_o may_v execute_v all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n within_o itself_o i_o see_v not_o how_o a_o particular_a church_n in_o this_o case_n be_v at_o all_o hinder_v for_o such_o a_o church_n to_o walk_v irregular_o and_o to_o claim_v exemption_n from_o all_o other_o church-power_n let_v those_o that_o will_v be_v member_n of_o such_o church_n i_o desire_v not_o to_o be_v so_o but_o in_o such_o church_n where_o there_o may_v be_v mean_n to_o help_v a_o wicked_a heart_n 4._o in_o this_o notion_n i_o see_v a_o way_n how_o congregation_n that_o have_v no_o minister_n may_v have_v minister_n ordain_v successive_o by_o officer_n which_o i_o be_o sure_o be_v the_o old_a way_n yea_o and_o officer_n may_v be_v judge_v per_fw-la pares_fw-la and_o excommunicate_v i_o see_v it_o will_v bring_v in_o much_o order_n into_o church_n 5._o the_o practice_n i_o observe_v in_o new_a england_n that_o do_v imply_v such_o a_o notion_n as_o this_o do_v lead_v i_o much_o to_o it_o 1._o as_o that_o member_n of_o one_o church_n do_v so_o frequent_o partake_v of_o the_o sacrament_n both_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o baptism_n in_o other_o church_n one_o pastor_n it_o may_v be_v may_v administer_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n to_o the_o member_n of_o five_o or_o six_o church_n at_o one_o time_n i_o know_v it_o be_v often_o say_v that_o a_o mayor_n of_o one_o corporation_n may_v administer_v justice_n to_o the_o member_n of_o another_o corporation_n if_o they_o be_v under_o his_o jurisdiction_n but_o he_o