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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A01730 A plaine declaration that our Brownists be full Donatists by comparing them together from point to point out of the writings of Augustine. Also a replie to Master Greenwood touching read prayer, wherein his grosse ignorance is detected, which labouring to purge himselfe from former absurdities, doth plunge himselfe deeper into the mire. By George Gyffard minister of Gods word in Maldon. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1590 (1590) STC 11862; ESTC S118453 101,969 166

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against_o all_o sin_n judge_v &_o repute_v they_o as_o christian_n brethren_n which_o it_o may_v be_v be_v not_o his_o fall_n be_v not_o great_a although_o he_o be_v over_o favourable_a for_o through_o humility_n he_o be_v below_o whereas_o on_o the_o other_o part_n such_o as_o condemn_v with_o uncharitable_a rigour_n they_o be_v lift_v up_o with_o swell_a and_o so_o their_o fall_n be_v deep_a this_o be_v my_o meaning_n in_o that_o i_o say_v i_o have_v rather_o answer_v to_o god_n for_o mercy_n than_o for_o rigour_n now_o as_o i_o eschew_v it_o in_o myself_o so_o will_v i_o be_v loath_a see_v rigour_n abound_v among_o many_o to_o give_v any_o occasion_n to_o nourish_v the_o same_o by_o my_o writing_n if_o i_o sin_v in_o this_o yet_o i_o trust_v it_o be_v so_o as_o no_o godly_a charitable_a man_n &_o well_o advise_v will_v make_v a_o outcry_n against_o i_o for_o it_o if_o i_o shake_v hand_n with_o sin_n let_v i_o be_v conden_v for_o it_o otherwise_o i_o crave_v that_o i_o may_v follow_v the_o rule_n of_o the_o apostle_n but_o now_o it_o will_v be_v say_v by_o the_o three_o sort_n which_o find_v fault_n with_o my_o book_n that_o i_o have_v break_v this_o rule_n towards_o the_o brownist_n as_o also_o that_o rule_n of_o s._n paul_n who_o will_v to_o instruct_v with_o patience_n such_o as_o be_v contrary_a mind_a because_o i_o charge_n they_o not_o only_o with_o foul_a schism_n but_o also_o with_o heresy_n and_o for_o which_o i_o take_v it_o that_o obstinacy_n if_o it_o be_v find_v in_o they_o will_v make_v they_o heretic_n they_o differ_v not_o from_o we_o say_v some_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o do_v over_o shoot_v themselves_o &_o that_o on_o the_o right_a hand_n for_o answer_v unto_o these_o first_o touch_v the_o rule_n of_o paul_n i_o know_v he_o himself_o do_v practice_v they_o and_o he_o that_o give_v these_o rule_n so_o far_o as_o we_o be_v come_v let_v we_o proceed_v by_o one_o rule_n etc._n etc._n and_o instruct_v with_o patience_n etc._n etc._n say_v also_o beware_v of_o dog_n beware_v of_o evil_a workman_n beware_v of_o the_o concision_n philip._n 3._o why_o do_v s._n paul_n this_o but_o move_v with_o the_o danger_n which_o the_o church_n be_v in_o by_o they_o man_n have_v not_o now_o the_o consideration_n what_o it_o be_v to_o condemn_v the_o whole_a worship_n &_o the_o ministry_n as_o antichristian_a and_o so_o utterlie_o to_o take_v away_o the_o credit_n and_o power_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o preach_v god_n word_n will_v they_o esteem_v it_o to_o be_v less_o than_o that_o which_o the_o false_a apostle_n do_v again_o i_o see_v man_n be_v ignorant_a what_o the_o power_n of_o donatisme_n be_v how_o it_o prevail_v and_o spread_v not_o only_o among_o the_o common_a sort_n but_o have_v hundreth_n of_o preacher_n to_o publish_v and_o set_v it_o forth_o neither_o do_v man_n know_v the_o foulness_n of_o donatisme_n nor_o the_o point_n of_o it_o and_o that_o make_v they_o offend_v that_o i_o term_v the_o brownist_n donatist_n &_o hold_v it_o as_o a_o schism_n and_o heresy_n cresconius_n the_o donatist_n write_v against_o augustine_n do_v reprehend_v he_o for_o call_v they_o heretic_n because_o they_o hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n as_o he_o say_v and_o if_o they_o offend_v it_o can_v be_v but_o as_o in_o a_o schism_n augustine_n repli_v that_o schisma_fw-la inveteratum_fw-la est_fw-la haeresis_fw-la inveterate_a schism_n be_v heresy_n and_o show_v that_o some_o thing_n they_o hold_v be_v heretical_a the_o church_n have_v condemn_v it_o not_o only_o as_o a_o schism_n but_o also_o as_o a_o heresy_n i_o have_v out_o of_o large_a discourse_n of_o the_o controversy_n between_o the_o church_n and_o the_o donatist_n draw_v forth_o brief_o all_o the_o chief_a head_n of_o donatisme_n and_o how_o they_o do_v stand_v to_o maintain_v they_o and_o with_o what_o scripture_n i_o compare_v the_o brownist_n and_o they_o together_o in_o all_o point_n general_o hold_v and_o will_v stand_v to_o justify_v that_o they_o be_v full_a donatist_n even_o in_o the_o rank_a donatisme_n if_o i_o have_v not_o set_v down_o the_o donatisme_n aright_o and_o if_o the_o brownisme_n be_v not_o the_o same_o let_v i_o have_v the_o shame_n for_o ever_o that_o i_o have_v give_v they_o the_o title_n and_o can_v not_o justify_v that_o they_o be_v worthy_a of_o it_o let_v the_o brownist_n choose_v which_o part_n they_o will_v either_o to_o affirm_v that_o the_o donatist_n have_v the_o truth_n or_o else_o to_o clear_v themselves_o from_o donatisme_n i_o will_v join_v with_o they_o or_o rather_o against_o they_o in_o either_o and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n i_o do_v exhort_v all_o other_o to_o be_v sober_a mind_a and_o discreet_a and_o not_o to_o thrust_v the_o simple_a sort_n headlong_o into_o it_o by_o exclaim_v that_o they_o be_v over_o hardly_o deal_v withal_o for_o what_o say_v some_o if_o these_o that_o be_v call_v brownist_n be_v godly_a man_n and_o but_o oversee_v in_o some_o matter_n we_o will_v choose_v to_o join_v with_o they_o rather_o than_o with_o the_o public_a assembly_n of_o our_o church_n these_o man_n be_v they_o in_o compassion_n of_o who_o i_o write_v now_o the_o chief_a head_n in_o which_o i_o compare_v they_o be_v these_o the_o donatist_n do_v false_o accuse_v and_o condemn_v the_o church_n and_o all_o the_o minister_n to_o be_v utterlie_o pollute_v and_o all_o their_o worship_n and_o separate_v themselves_o without_o all_o order_n of_o discipline_n so_o have_v the_o brownist_n do_v the_o donatist_n take_v begin_n by_o occasion_n of_o one_o man_n who_o they_o hold_v to_o be_v no_o minister_n of_o christ_n but_o after_o they_o make_v their_o defence_n that_o all_o be_v pollute_v and_o all_o the_o minister_n the_o generation_n of_o traitor_n judass_n and_o persecutor_n of_o the_o just_a that_o the_o church_n in_o the_o begin_n after_o the_o time_n of_o persecution_n be_v not_o well_o order_v by_o separation_n of_o the_o faithful_a from_o the_o wicked_a for_o because_o there_o be_v many_o both_o minister_n and_o people_n which_o in_o time_n of_o persecution_n to_o save_v their_o life_n have_v deny_v the_o faith_n &_o sacrifice_v to_o idol_n and_o deliver_v the_o holy_a scripture_n to_o the_o persecutor_n and_o when_o constantine_n give_v peace_n be_v become_v christian_a return_v and_o be_v not_o cast_v forth_o hereupon_o the_o donatist_n say_v all_o be_v utterlie_o pollute_v &_o that_o because_o some_o such_o do_v ordain_v minister_n at_o least_o as_o they_o report_v they_o accuse_v all_o the_o minister_n to_o be_v the_o son_n of_o traitor_n which_o ordain_v they_o and_o so_o be_v no_o minister_n of_o christ_n have_v no_o true_a prayer_n nor_o sacrament_n the_o brownist_n affirm_v that_o all_o our_o assembly_n which_o open_o commit_v idolatry_n be_v at_o the_o sound_n of_o a_o trumpet_n at_o the_o coronation_n of_o the_o queen_n call_v to_o be_v church_n that_o the_o bad_a be_v not_o separate_v from_o the_o good_a that_o our_o ordainer_n be_v idolater_n &_o that_o we_o be_v their_o child_n no_o minister_n of_o christ_n but_o baal_n priest_n &_o persecutor_n &_o so_o have_v no_o word_n of_o god_n nor_o no_o sacrament_n nor_o true_a church_n all_o be_v pollute_v with_o the_o open_a sin_n commit_v thus_o both_o make_v the_o holy_a thing_n of_o the_o lord_n which_o indeed_o be_v unchangeable_a or_o else_o we_o can_v have_v no_o comfort_n as_o namely_o the_o word_n of_o god_n the_o prayer_n the_o sacrament_n &_o the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n to_o be_v pollute_v &_o destroy_v by_o the_o wickedness_n of_o man_n the_o donatist_n hold_v that_o prince_n be_v not_o to_o compel_v unto_o religion_n &_o so_o cry_v out_o of_o persecution_n &_o glory_v of_o their_o suffering_n &_o multitude_n of_o martyr_n and_o what_o do_v the_o brownist_n these_o thing_n with_o the_o rest_n will_v better_o appear_v in_o the_o several_a comparison_n as_o they_o follow_v in_o my_o book_n i_o now_o entreat_v the_o reader_n not_o to_o judge_v of_o any_o one_o thing_n until_o he_o have_v read_v the_o whole_a i_o also_o desire_v that_o the_o say_n of_o the_o ancient_a writer_n which_o i_o allege_v may_v be_v well_o weigh_v for_o proof_n of_o that_o for_o which_o i_o cite_v they_o if_o any_o shall_v say_v what_o shall_v we_o ground_n upon_o man_n i_o answer_v i_o allege_v they_o but_o to_o show_v what_o the_o controversy_n be_v &_o how_o it_o be_v dispute_v on_o both_o side_n &_o for_o this_o they_o be_v sufficient_a witness_n believe_v their_o reason_n as_o you_o find_v they_o be_v confirm_v by_o the_o holy_a scripture_n i_o have_v set_v down_o the_o latin_a lest_o any_o shall_v think_v i_o have_v not_o deal_v plain_o and_o touch_v the_o last_o part_n of_o this_o my_o book_n which_o be_v a_o answer_n to_o master_n greenwood_n
the_o head_n and_o the_o member_n they_o put_v the_o father_n and_o the_o child_n for_o the_o stock_n and_o the_o branch_n they_o put_v the_o tree_n and_o the_o bough_n which_o be_v all_o one_o and_o from_o the_o root_n as_o it_o be_v from_o the_o fountain_n and_o head_n they_o derive_v the_o life_n the_o power_n and_o the_o image_n etc._n etc._n thus_o they_o agree_v then_o that_o the_o one_o part_n say_v those_o which_o ordain_v you_o be_v such_o as_o sacrifice_v to_o idol_n and_o traitor_n very_a judass_n you_o be_v their_o child_n and_o like_o they_o the_o other_o part_n say_v those_o that_o ordain_v you_o be_v the_o creature_n of_o antichrist_n you_o receive_v the_o very_a life_n and_o power_n of_o your_o ministry_n from_o they_o you_o be_v their_o child_n and_o so_o the_o child_n of_o the_o pope_n now_o let_v we_o see_v the_o answer_n which_o augustine_n make_v which_o be_v this_o in_o his_o omnibus_fw-la verbis_fw-la tuis_fw-la creatorem_fw-la meum_fw-la caput_fw-la meum_fw-la non_fw-la fecisti_fw-la nisi_fw-la traditorem_fw-la quem_fw-la quidem_fw-la accusare_fw-la tantùm_fw-la non_fw-la convincere_fw-la potuisti_fw-la ego_fw-la autem_fw-la nec_fw-la eius_fw-la innocentiam_fw-la mihi_fw-la creatricem_fw-la vel_fw-la fontem_fw-la caputúe_fw-la constituo_fw-la sed_fw-la tu_fw-la ad_fw-la illud_fw-la redis_fw-la in_o quo_fw-la petilianus_n erravit_fw-la cum_fw-la cuiusque_fw-la in_o sanctificatione_n baptismatis_fw-la christu●_n sit_v orig●_n caputque_fw-la nascentis_fw-la &_o nos_fw-la vis_fw-la venire_fw-la in_o maledictum_fw-la de_fw-la quo_fw-la scriptum_fw-la est_fw-la maledictus_fw-la omnis_fw-la qui_fw-la spem_fw-la svam_fw-la ponit_fw-la in_o homine_fw-la that_o be_v to_o say_v in_o all_o these_o thy_o word_n thou_o have_v make_v my_o ordainer_n my_o head_n none_o other_o than_o a_o traitor_n who_o thou_o can_v only_o accuse_v but_o not_o convince_v but_o i_o do_v not_o hold_v his_o innocence_n to_o be_v that_o which_o have_v ordain_v i_o a_o minister_n or_o to_o be_v fountain_n or_o head_n but_o thou_o do_v return_v to_o that_o in_o which_o petilian_n err_v when_o as_o christ_n in_o the_o sanctification_n of_o baptism_n be_v the_o original_n and_o the_o head_n of_o every_o one_o that_o be_v bear_v again_o and_o will_v have_v we_o come_v into_o the_o curse_n of_o which_o it_o be_v write_v curse_v be_v every_o one_o that_o put_v his_o trust_n in_o man_n thus_o far_o augustine_n who_o answer_n have_v two_o part_n the_o first_o be_v that_o the_o donatist_n do_v accuse_v but_o can_v not_o prove_v that_o the_o ordainer_n be_v such_o as_o in_o time_n of_o persecution_n have_v yield_v to_o sacrifice_v to_o idol_n or_o deliver_v the_o holy_a book_n to_o the_o fire_n the_o other_o part_n be_v that_o whether_o he_o that_o ordain_v he_o be_v a_o godly_a man_n or_o a_o wicked_a man_n the_o matter_n be_v all_o one_o touch_v his_o ordination_n and_o ministry_n the_o ordination_n not_o be_v man_n the_o innocence_n of_o man_n can_v be_v the_o ordainer_n it_o can_v be_v the_o head_n or_o fountain_n neither_o can_v it_o make_v his_o ordination_n the_o better_a then_o likewise_o the_o wickedness_n of_o the_o man_n that_o ordain_v can_v be_v the_o root_n nor_o the_o fountain_n nor_o the_o head_n the_o man_n which_o ordain_v be_v not_o the_o father_n of_o the_o ministry_n because_o it_o be_v not_o they_o which_o they_o deliver_v but_o christ_n that_o this_o be_v augustine_n meaning_n it_o be_v clear_v by_o that_o he_o tell_v cresconius_n he_o return_v to_o that_o in_o which_o petilian_n err_v petilian_n deny_v that_o it_o be_v baptism_n that_o have_v be_v minister_v by_o a_o ungodlie_a man_n render_v this_o reason_n that_o every_o thing_n must_v have_v a_o original_a and_o a_o head_n or_o else_o it_o be_v nothing_o augustine_n repli_v that_o christ_n only_o be_v the_o original_n and_o the_o head_n of_o he_o that_o be_v baptize_v and_o that_o the_o baptism_n be_v christ_n and_o not_o they_o that_o do_v deliver_v it_o the_o goodness_n of_o the_o minister_n make_v it_o not_o one_o jot_n the_o better_a nor_o the_o wickedness_n of_o the_o minister_n any_o whit_n the_o worse_o add_v moreover_o that_o such_o as_o take_v the_o baptism_n minister_v by_o a_o godly_a man_n to_o be_v better_o in_o itself_o than_o that_o which_o be_v minister_v by_o a_o naughty_a man_n fall_v into_o the_o curse_n of_o which_o it_o be_v write_v curse_a be_v every_o one_o that_o put_v his_o trust_n in_o man_n he_o that_o hang_v the_o matter_n which_o be_v christ_n upon_o man_n put_v his_o trust_n in_o man_n the_o same_o answer_n that_o he_o have_v make_v to_o those_o his_o donatist_n of_o aphrica_fw-la do_v we_o make_v unto_o our_o donatist_n of_o england_n first_o they_o accuse_v in_o most_o bitter_a and_o heinous_a manner_n but_o shall_v never_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v their_o accusation_n for_o there_o be_v no_o ministry_n in_o england_n ordain_v by_o the_o pope_n or_o for_o the_o pope_n the_o ministry_n of_o publish_v the_o gospel_n and_o deliver_v the_o sacrament_n be_v not_o the_o device_n of_o man_n but_o christ_n ordinance_n and_o therefore_o we_o receive_v it_o not_o as_o they_o that_o deliver_v it_o neither_o do_v their_o godliness_n or_o ungodliness_n make_v it_o better_o or_o worse_o unto_o us._n the_o ministry_n be_v not_o utterlie_o destroy_v in_o the_o popery_n for_o there_o remain_v the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n howsoever_o the_o catabaptist_n deny_v the_o same_o how_o much_o be_v the_o ministry_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v acknowledge_v when_o it_o be_v only_o to_o that_o end_n for_o which_o he_o ordain_v it_o though_o the_o man_n that_o ordain_v shall_v be_v most_o ungodlie_a this_o thing_n will_v more_o full_o appear_v when_o we_o come_v to_o handle_v the_o agreement_n of_o the_o brownist_n with_o the_o donatist_n in_o that_o rank_n donatisme_n affirm_v it_o to_o be_v no_o sacrament_n which_o be_v minister_v by_o a_o open_a wicked_a man_n thus_o much_o may_v suffice_v to_o show_v that_o in_o deny_v the_o ministry_n to_o be_v christ_n they_o hold_v the_o same_o ground_n and_o argument_n and_o receive_v the_o self_n same_o answer_n and_o for_o their_o rail_a term_n as_o generation_n of_o traitor_n seducer_n false_a prophet_n judass_n persecutor_n and_o such_o like_a i_o need_v not_o mention_v the_o comparison_n of_o our_o man_n with_o they_o see_v they_o do_v in_o this_o as_o in_o one_o of_o the_o chief_a vein_n of_o their_o eloquence_n apparent_o excel_v their_o base_a disciple_n can_v cry_v out_o antichrist_n baal_n priest_n false_a prophet_n seducer_n and_o what_o not_o but_o it_o will_v be_v say_v that_o in_o the_o matter_n of_o discipline_n the_o donatist_n and_o brownist_n be_v unlike_a i_o grant_v the_o donatist_n that_o ever_o i_o have_v read_v do_v take_v no_o exception_n that_o way_n that_o be_v not_o alone_o in_o question_n but_o whether_o there_o be_v any_o fault_n so_o that_o exception_n may_v betake_v and_o for_o this_o man_n be_v to_o consider_v that_o 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make_v which_o he_o term_v sacrilegious_a treachery_n or_o else_o condemn_v he_o not_o only_o with_o the_o church_n of_o geneva_n which_o he_o teach_v but_o also_o all_o other_o church_n that_o embrace_v his_o writing_n and_o acknowledge_v he_o for_o a_o noble_a instrument_n of_o god_n furthermore_o let_v the_o brownist_n show_v any_o one_o assembly_n at_o this_o day_n in_o the_o world_n in_o which_o there_o be_v not_o open_a sinner_n admit_v to_o the_o lord_n table_n and_o which_o sin_n in_o great_a sin_n as_o either_o in_o pride_n self_n love_n ambition_n covetousness_n idleness_n hatred_n envy_n contention_n backbiting_a lie_v and_o in_o such_o like_a they_o say_v all_o be_v pollute_v and_o fall_v away_o from_o the_o covenant_n where_o any_o that_o open_o sin_v be_v admit_v to_o the_o holy_a communion_n how_o can_v they_o say_v then_o that_o they_o do_v not_o condemn_v all_o church_n under_o heaven_n final_o when_o in_o their_o writing_n they_o affirm_v that_o prescript_n form_n 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sin_n therefore_o they_o that_o use_v it_o be_v no_o church_n have_v you_o say_v no_o more_o but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o heinous_a sin_n have_v you_o forget_v all_o your_o former_a say_n of_o idolatry_n bondage_n break_a christian_a liberty_n most_o detestable_a stand_v under_o god_n wrath_n i_o hold_v he_o no_o anabaptist_n nor_o donatist_n which_o from_o such_o speech_n conclude_v no_o true_a church_n for_o i_o never_o hear_v that_o the_o true_a church_n do_v stand_v under_o god_n wrath_n the_o next_o word_n be_v sore_o abaddon_n be_v the_o father_n of_o such_o prophet_n say_v master_n greenewood_n because_o i_o say_v the_o brownist_n maintain_v such_o a_o freedom_n as_o that_o will_v have_v nothing_o impose_v by_o commandment_n i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o whether_o you_o be_v one_o of_o those_o which_o set_v out_o the_o brief_a sum_n of_o the_o profession_n and_o when_o i_o have_v write_v against_o it_o i_o will_v know_v if_o you_o be_v one_o that_o make_v the_o defence_n or_o 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rule_n which_o be_v variable_a as_o i_o have_v before_o show_v for_o circumstance_n of_o time_n place_n person_n sit_v kneeling_z etc._n etc._n he_o say_v there_o can_v be_v no_o particular_a law_n make_v without_o break_v the_o law_n of_o god_n as_o though_o the_o church_n be_v not_o to_o see_v what_o in_o these_o be_v fit_a and_o convenient_a upon_o every_o occasion_n and_o time_n and_o for_o that_o time_n to_o establish_v the_o same_o but_o every_o man_n to_o do_v as_o he_o shall_v like_v or_o shall_v take_v the_o general_a rule_n of_o order_n and_o decency_n for_o man_n will_v not_o agree_v this_o be_v from_o rule_n of_o order_n to_o draw_v confusion_n now_o this_o great_a divine_n say_v i_o have_v make_v a_o fair_a hand_n in_o affirm_v leiturgy_n to_o be_v but_o a_o matter_n of_o order_n or_o conveniency_n for_o edification_n see_v as_o he_o say_v it_o be_v all_o the_o worship_n we_o have_v this_o come_v from_o he_o that_o have_v the_o beauty_n of_o zion_n as_o he_o boast_v 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