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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A18078 A replye to an ansvvere made of M. Doctor VVhitgifte Against the admonition to the Parliament. By T.C. Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603. 1573 (1573) STC 4712; ESTC S120563 333,686 231

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of_o certain_a that_o have_v be_v kill_v thereby_o you_o may_v as_o well_o bring_v in_o a_o prayer_n that_o man_n may_v not_o have_v fall_n from_o their_o horse_n may_v not_o fall_v into_o the_o hand_n of_o robber_n may_v not_o fall_v into_o water_n and_o a_o number_n such_o more_o sudden_a death_n wherewith_o a_o great_a number_n be_v take_v away_o then_z by_o thunder_n or_o lightning_n and_o such_o like_a and_o so_o there_o shall_v be_v never_o any_o end_n of_o beg_v these_o earthly_a commodity_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o form_n of_o prayer_n appoint_a by_o our_o saviour_n christ_n and_o whereas_o you_o allege_v the_o petition_n of_o the_o lord_n prayer_n deliver_v we_o from_o evil_a to_o prove_v this_o prayer_n against_o thunder_n etc_n etc_n beside_o that_o all_o the_o commodity_n and_o discommodity_n of_o this_o life_n be_v pray_v for_o and_o pray_v against_o in_o that_o petition_n whereby_o we_o desire_v our_o daily_a bread_n it_o be_v very_o strange_a to_o apply_v that_o to_o the_o thunder_n that_z be_v understand_v of_o the_o devil_n as_o the_o article_n apo_fw-es thou_fw-mi ponerou_fw-fr do_v declare_v and_o that_o it_o be_v a_o marvelous_a conclusion_n that_o for_o so_o much_o as_o we_o ought_v daily_o and_o ordinary_o and_o public_o desire_v to_o be_v deliver_v from_o the_o devil_n ergo_fw-la we_o ought_v daily_o and_o ordinary_o and_o public_o desire_v to_o be_v deliver_v from_o thunder_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o correct_v magnificat_fw-la and_o a_o other_o thing_n to_o show_v the_o abuse_n of_o it_o and_o therefore_o i_o see_v no_o cause_n why_o you_o shall_v use_v this_o allusion_n between_o magnificat_fw-la &_o significat_fw-la unless_o it_o be_v for_o that_o you_o purpose_v to_o set_v out_o all_o your_o learning_n in_o this_o book_n will_v not_o so_o much_o as_o forget_v a_o old_a rot_a proverb_n which_o trot_v amongst_o the_o monk_n in_o their_o cloister_n of_o who_o i_o may_v just_o say_v which_o tully_n say_v in_o a_o neither_o 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of_o weight_n what_o form_n of_o prayer_n we_o use_v so_o that_o the_o prayer_n be_v good_a it_o must_v be_v understand_v that_o as_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a to_o preach_v the_o same_o doctrine_n which_o our_o saviour_n christ_n &_o his_o apostle_n have_v preach_v unless_o the_o same_o form_n of_o doctrine_n and_o of_o teach_v be_v likewise_o keep_v so_o be_v it_o not_o enough_o that_o the_o matter_n of_o our_o prayer_n be_v such_o as_o be_v in_o the_o word_n of_o god_n unless_o that_o the_o form_n also_o be_v agreeable_a unto_o the_o form_n of_o prayer_n in_o the_o scripture_n now_o we_o have_v no_o such_o form_n in_o the_o scripture_n as_o that_o we_o shall_v pray_v in_o two_o or_o three_o line_n and_o they_o after_o have_v read_v a_o while_n some_o other_o thing_n come_v and_o pray_v as_o much_o more_o and_o so_o to_o the_o twenty_o and_o xxx_o time_n with_o pause_n between_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v come_v to_o a_o prince_n and_o keep_v such_o order_n in_o make_v his_o petition_n unto_o he_o that_o have_v very_o many_o thing_n to_o demand_v after_o he_o have_v demand_v one_o thing_n he_o will_v stay_v a_o long_a time_n and_o then_o demand_v a_o other_o and_o so_o the_o third_o the_o prince_n may_v well_o think_v that_o either_o he_o come_v to_o ask_v before_o he_o know_v what_o he_o have_v need_n of_o or_o that_o he_o have_v forget_v some_o piece_n of_o his_o suit_n or_o that_o he_o be_v distract_v in_o his_o understanding_n or_o some_o other_o such_o like_a cause_n of_o the_o disorder_n of_o his_o supplication_n and_o therefore_o how_o much_o more_o convenient_a be_v it_o that_z according_a to_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n first_o the_o minister_n with_o a_o humble_a and_o general_a confession_n of_o fault_n shall_v desire_v the_o assistance_n of_o the_o lord_n for_o the_o fruitful_a handle_n and_o receive_v of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o then_o after_o that_o we_o have_v hear_v the_o lord_n speak_v unto_o we_o in_o his_o word_n by_o his_o minister_n the_o church_n shall_v likewise_o speak_v unto_o the_o lord_n and_o present_a all_o those_o petition_n and_o suit_n at_o once_o both_o for_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o for_o the_o prince_n and_o all_o other_o estate_n which_o shall_v be_v think_v needful_a and_o if_o any_o will_v say_v that_o there_o be_v short_a prayer_n find_v in_o the_o act_n it_o may_v be_v answer_v that_o s._n luke_n do_v not_o express_v the_o whole_a prayer_n at_o large_a but_o only_a set_v down_o the_o sum_n of_o they_o and_o their_o chief_a point_n and_o further_o it_o may_v be_v answer_v that_o always_o those_o prayer_n be_v continue_v together_o and_o not_o cut_v off_o and_o shred_v into_o diverse_a small_a piece_n an_o other_o fault_n be_v that_z all_o the_o people_n be_v appoint_v in_o diverse_a place_n to_o say_v after_o the_o minister_n whereby_o not_o only_o the_o time_n be_v unprofitable_o waste_a &_o a_o confuse_a voice_n of_o the_o people_n one_o speak_v after_o a_o other_o cause_v but_o a_o opinion_n breed_v in_o their_o head_n that_o those_o only_o be_v their_o prayer_n which_o they_o say_v and_o pronounce_v with_o their_o own_o mouth_n which_o cause_v they_o to_o geve_v the_o les_fw-fr heed_n to_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o prayer_n which_o they_o rehearse_v not_o after_o the_o minister_n which_o notwithstanding_o be_v as_o well_o their_o prayer_n as_o those_o which_o they_o pronounce_v after_o the_o minister_n otherwise_o then_o the_o order_n which_o be_v leave_v unto_o the_o church_n of_o god_n do_v bear_v for_o god_n have_v ordain_v the_o minister_n to_o this_o end_n that_o as_o in_o public_a meeting_n he_o only_o be_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o lord_n from_o he_o to_o the_o people_n even_o so_o he_o ought_v to_o be_v only_o the_o mouth_n of_o the_o people_n from_o they_o unto_o the_o lord_n and_o that_o all_o the_o people_n shall_v attend_v to_o that_o which_o be_v say_v by_o the_o minister_n and_o in_o the_o end_n both_o declare_v their_o consent_n to_o that_o which_o be_v say_v and_o there_o hope_v that_o it_o shall_v so_o be_v and_o come_v to_o pass_v which_o be_v pray_v by_o the_o word_n amen_o as_o s._n paul_n declare_v in_o the_o epistle_n to_o christianis_fw-la the_o corinthian_n and_o justine_n martyr_n show_v to_o have_v be_v the_o custom_n of_o the_o church_n in_o his_o time_n although_o these_o blot_n in_o the_o common_a prayer_n be_v such_o as_o may_v easy_o enough_o appear_v unto_o any_o which_o be_v not_o wed_v to_o a_o prejudicate_a opinion_n and_o that_o there_o be_v no_o great_a difficulty_n in_o this_o matter_n yet_o i_o know_v that_o this_o treatise_n of_o prayer_n will_v be_v subject_a to_o many_o reprehension_n and_o that_o there_o will_v not_o be_v want_v some_o probable_a colour_n also_o whereby_o
of_o the_o learned_a do_v thereby_o declare_v that_o it_o be_v not_o sufficient_a that_o he_o be_v well_o instruct_v in_o the_o mystery_n of_o salvation_n but_o that_o he_o have_v also_o the_o gift_n of_o utterance_n afterward_o m._n doctor_n ask_v whether_o s._n paul_n do_v not_o preach_v to_o the_o roman_n when_o he_o write_v unto_o they_o no_o forsooth_o he_o write_v to_o the_o roman_n be_v no_o more_o preach_v then_o s._n paul_n hand_n or_o his_o pen_n which_o be_v his_o instrument_n to_o write_v with_o be_v his_o tongue_n or_o his_o light_v or_o any_o other_o part_n which_o be_v his_o instrument_n to_o speak_v with_o and_o s._n paul_n himself_o 15._o write_v to_o the_o roman_n put_v a_o difference_n between_o his_o write_n &_o his_o preach_a when_o although_o he_o write_v unto_o they_o yet_o he_o excuse_v himself_o that_o he_o can_v not_o come_v to_o preach_v unto_o they_o say_n that_o he_o be_v ready_a as_o much_o as_o lay_v in_o he_o to_o preach_v unto_o they_o but_o say_v he_o be_v not_o the_o read_n of_o deuteronomie_n preach_v no_o more_o than_o the_o read_n of_o erodus_n here_o be_v good_a proof_n it_o be_v general_o deny_v that_o read_n be_v preach_v and_o master_n doctoure_n without_o any_o proof_n take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o the_o read_n of_o deuteronomie_n be_v preach_v all_o man_n see_v how_o pitiful_a reason_n these_o be_v and_o in_o the._n 162._o page_n he_o allege_v that_o in_o the_o act_n s_o luke_n seem_v to_o mean_v by_o read_v preach_v but_o what_o deal_n 21._o be_v this_o upon_o a_o seem_a and_o conjecture_v to_o set_v down_o so_o certain_o and_o undoubted_o that_o read_n be_v preach_v &_o then_o there_o be_v no_o one_o letter_n nor_o syllable_n that_o uphold_v any_o such_o conjecture_n for_o s._n james_n say_v that_o moses_n mean_v the_o law_n red_a every_o saboth_n through_o out_o every_o town_n in_o the_o synagogue_n be_v also_o preach_v or_o have_v those_o that_o preach_v it_o set_v forth_o the_o order_n which_o be_v use_v in_o all_o the_o church_n amongst_o the_o people_n of_o god_n that_o always_o when_o they_o meet_v upon_o the_o saboth_n day_n they_o have_v the_o scripture_n first_o read_v and_o then_o preach_v of_o and_o expound_v which_o be_v that_o the_o author_n of_o the_o admonition_n do_v desire_v and_o therefore_o complain_v for_o that_o after_o read_v follow_v no_o preach_v which_o any_o indifferent_a man_n may_v easy_o understand_v by_o that_o that_o they_o say_v in_o the_o old_a time_n the_o word_n be_v preach_v now_o it_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v sufficient_a if_o it_o be_v red_a but_o master_n doctor_n hear_v with_o his_o left_a ear_n and_o read_v with_o his_o left_a eye_n as_z though_o his_o right_a eye_n be_v pull_v out_o or_o his_o right_a care_n cut_v of_o for_o otherwise_o the_o other_o word_n which_o they_o have_v touch_v this_o matter_n may_v easy_o have_v be_v expound_v by_o the_o argument_n &_o matter_n which_o they_o handle_v of_o minister_a of_o the_o sacrament_n in_o private_a place_n &_o by_o woman_n i_o have_v speak_v before_o there_o remain_v therefore_o only_o in_o this_o section_n to_o speak_v of_o the_o deacon_n that_o they_o ought_v not_o to_o minister_v the_o sacrament_n which_o although_o i_o have_v do_v partly_o before_o &_o partly_o afterward_o will_v do_v when_o i_o shall_v show_v that_o it_o appertain_v not_o to_o they_o to_o minister_v the_o word_n and_o therefore_o not_o the_o sacrament_n be_v thing_n the_o mynistery_n whereof_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v sever_v yet_o i_o will_v in_o a_o word_n answer_v those_o argument_n that_o m._n doctor_n bring_v for_o to_o prove_v that_o they_o may_v minister_v the_o sacrament_n whereof_o the_o first_o be_v that_z philip_n in_o the._n 8._o of_o the_o act_n baptise_v there_o be_v great_a doubt_n amongst_o writer_n which_o philip_n that_o be_v that_o s._n luke_n mention_v in_o 21._o the_o eight_o chapter_n of_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n but_o i_o grant_v he_o to_o be_v you_o philip_n that_o be_v the_o deacon_n &_o answer_n that_o he_o be_v no_o deacon_n then_o for_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n whereof_o he_o be_v deacon_n be_v scatter_a he_o can_v be_v no_o more_o deacon_n of_o it_o or_o distribute_v the_o money_n that_o be_v collect_v for_o the_o poor_a of_o the_o church_n and_o further_o i_o answer_v that_o he_o be_v afterward_o a_o evangelist_n and_o therefore_o preach_v not_o by_o virtue_n of_o his_o deaconshyppe_n who_o calling_n be_v not_o to_o preach_v but_o by_o that_o he_o be_v a_o evangelist_n who_o office_n put_v upon_o he_o a_o necessity_n of_o preach_v after_o you_o say_v that_o deacon_n be_v not_o permit_v with_o we_o to_o celebrate_v the_o lord_n supper_n and_o why_o then_o shall_v they_o be_v suffer_v to_o minister_v baptism_n as_o if_o the_o one_o sacrament_n be_v not_o as_o precious_a as_o the_o other_o this_o be_v a_o miserable_a rend_v a_o sunder_o of_o those_o thing_n which_o god_n have_v join_v together_o not_o only_a to_o separate_v the_o mynistery_n of_o the_o sacrament_n from_o the_o word_n but_o also_o the_o mynistery_n of_o one_o sacrament_n from_o a_o other_o and_o what_o reason_n be_v there_o that_z it_o shall_v be_v grant_v unto_o one_o that_o can_v not_o preach_v be_v as_o they_o call_v he_o a_o minister_n to_o minister_v both_o the_o sacrament_n when_o as_o the_o same_o be_v not_o permit_v unto_o a_o deacon_n as_o they_o call_v he_o which_o be_v able_a to_o preach_v i_o do_v not_o speak_v it_o for_o that_o i_o will_v have_v those_o which_o be_v deacon_n in_o deed_n that_o be_v which_o have_v charge_n to_o provide_v for_o the_o poor_a of_o some_o one_o congregation_n either_o preach_v or_o minister_v the_o sacrament_n but_o i_o say_v that_o it_o be_v against_o all_o reason_n to_o permit_v the_o mynistery_n of_o the_o sacrament_n to_o those_o which_o can_v not_o preach_v &_o to_o deny_v it_o to_o those_o which_o be_v able_a to_o preach_v in_o the._n 118._o page_n unto_o the_o example_n of_o philip_n he_o add_v s._n stephen_n which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o deacon_n which_o he_o affirm_v to_o have_v preach_v but_o i_o deny_v it_o for_o all_o that_o long_a oration_n which_o he_o have_v in_o the_o 7._o of_o the_o act_n be_v no_o sermon_n but_o a_o defence_n of_o himself_o against_o those_o accusation_n which_o be_v lay_v against_o he_o as_o m._n beza_n do_v very_o learned_o &_o substantial_o prove_v in_o his_o annotation_n upon_o those_o place_n of_o s._n stephen_n disputation_n &_o defence_n now_o to_o defend_v himself_o be_v accuse_v be_v lawful_a not_o for_o the_o deacon_n only_o but_o for_o any_o other_o christian_n &_o we_o read_v nothing_o that_o stephen_n do_v there_o either_o touch_v the_o defence_n of_o his_o cause_n or_o the_o sharp_a rebuke_v of_o the_o obstinate_a pharisee_n and_o priest_n but_o that_o the_o holy_a martyr_n of_o god_n which_o be_v no_o deacon_n nor_o mynisters_n have_v do_v with_o we_o when_o they_o have_v be_v convent_v before_o their_o persecutor_n and_o where_o as_o he_o say_v that_o philip_n baptise_a i_o have_v show_v before_o by_o what_o authority_n he_o do_v it_o that_z be_v not_o in_o that_o he_o be_v a_o deacon_n but_o for_o that_o he_o be_v a_o evangelist_n he_o add_v further_a out_o of_o justin_n martyr_n that_o the_o deacon_n do_v distribute_v the_o bread_n &_o the_o wine_n in_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o supper_n tully_n say_v in_o a_o certain_a place_n that_o it_o be_v as_o great_a a_o point_n of_o wisdom_n in_o a_o advocate_n or_o pleader_n of_o cause_n to_o hold_a back_n and_o to_o keep_v close_o that_o which_o be_v hurtful_a to_o his_o cause_n as_o it_o be_v to_o speak_v that_o which_o be_v profitable_a m._n doctor_n observe_v none_o of_o these_o point_n for_o besides_o that_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o bring_v for_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o service_n book_n be_v such_o as_z they_o have_v before_o appear_v in_o seek_v to_o defend_v it_o he_o manifest_o oppugn_v it_o for_o before_o he_o say_v that_o the_o book_n of_o service_n do_v not_o permit_v deacon_n to_o minister_n the_o supper_n of_o the_o lord_n and_o that_o by_o way_n of_o allow_v of_o the_o book_n and_o here_o he_o prove_v that_o the_o deacon_n do_v minister_v the_o sacrament_n of_o the_o supper_n and_o that_o also_o as_o a_o thing_n which_o he_o do_v alow_o of_o but_o to_o let_v that_o pass_v i_o beseech_v thou_o good_a reader_n mark_v what_o a_o minister_a of_o the_o supper_n this_o be_v which_o justin_n make_v mention_n of_o &_o note_n with_o what_o conscience_n m._n doctor_n handle_v this_o cause_n justin_n say_v that_o after_o the_o scripture_n be_v red_a and_o preach_v of_o and_o prayer_n make_v bread_n and_o wine_n &_o water_n be_v bring_v forth_o