A REPLYE TO AN answere made of M. Doctor VVhitegifre AGAINSTE THE ADMONITION to the Parliament By T. C. ISAIE 61. ver 1. For Syons sake I will not holde my tonge and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes therof breake forthe as the lighte and the saluation thereof be as a burning lampâ— Ver. 6. 7. Ye that are the Lordes remembrancers keepe not silence and geue hym no rest vntill he repayre and set vp Ierusalem the prayse of the world The Printer to the Reader SOme perhaps will maruel at the newe impression of thys boke and so muche the more will they wonder because they shall see that with great confidence boldnes notwythstanding our most gracious Princes late published proclamation procured rather by the Byshops then willingly sought for by her maiestie whose mildnes is such that she were easyer led to yelde to the proclamation of the highest then drawne to proclaime any thing against hym were it not for the subtil perswasions and wicked dealings of thys horned generation as by their false doctrine and cruell practises is to bee seene and by the speciall motion of Gods spirite and hys protection it hath bene both attempted and ended But cease to muse good christian reader whosoeuer thou art and learne to know that no lawes were they neuer so hard and seuere can put out the force of Gods spirite in hys children nor any cruelty though it stretched it selfe so far as to sheding of bloud from which kynde of dealing the Byshops are not cleare as the Prysons in London the Gatehouse at Westminster c. can witnesse the Lord for geue them and vs our sinnes can discharge the sayntes and seruauntes of the Lord from going forwarde in that which is good For the profite therefore of the godly and their instruction haue we hazarded our selues and as it were cast our selues into suche daungers and troubles as shal be layed vpon vs if we come into the haÌ„ds of the persecuting Bishops From the which pray the Lord if it be hys will to delyuer vs if not yet that it woulde please hym to geue vs both patience to beare what so euer he shall geue them power and lyberty to lay vpon vs and constancy also to contynue in hys truth and the profession thereof vnto our lyues end Farewell in the Lord and prayse God for thys worke I. S. Faultes escaped Page 2. line 14. for arme read army pa. 60. line 30. for thys spirite read hys spirite Page 39. line 41. for when read whom pa. 39. line 47. for against them read agaynst hym Page 26. line 37. for appose read oppose pa. 23. line 31. for ioipon read loipon and for proegoron read proegoros pa. 10. li. 41. for kairoutiche read kairou tyche pa. 69. for dioceris diocesis Page 9. line 16. put a comma at speache and a full poynt at vse Page 106. line 12. for to breake read doe breake Page 118. line 31. in the ende therof adde whych thyng also M. Doctor graunteth Page 127. line 6. for I beleue read I wil beleue page 127. line 8. For the apostles read For the false Apostles page 129. line 51. for and more in the read and more to in the. Page 130. line 41. for sole meditation read sole mediation page 137. line 49. for and that it is read and it is page 138. line 4. for ingenium read ingenuum page 138. line 14. for necessary read necessarily page 141. line 15. for there is greater read there is a greater Page 142. line 32. for and other read an other page 144. line 7. for herevpon read herevnto Page 144. line 51. for celebrating in one kinde read celebrating it in one kinde Page 146. line 18. for the other vsed in the other vsed only in pa. 160. li. 23. for tute read true Page 163. line 43. for there were many read there were very many page 174. line 3. for Ambose read Ambrose page 188. line 29. for in England or in Ireland read and in England Page 189. line 8. for vicarse read vicares page 1â—8 in the margent for Concil Valense reade Concil Vasense page 201. in the margent adde to that of August lib. 2. de consolatione mortuorum cap. 5. page 207. line 42. read for catexochen read cathexochen Page 205. line 21. for possessed read dysposesssed Page 210. line 46. and other thyngs and do other thyngs pa. 214. li. 15. for iabon read labon Page 215. line 20. for or so much deceyued of read or so much as deceiued A short Table of the princypall poyntes entreated of in thys boke made according to the order of the Alphabet A  M. Doctors Anacletus counterfait 92. M. Doctors Anicetus counterfait 92. There are now no Apostles 63. The churche was established in the Apostles tymes 51. Apostles appoynted no archbyshoppes but byshoppes 92. Corruptions entred into the church immediatly after the times of the apostles 96. Apparell of the mynisters 71. c. Apparell of mourners is either hypocriticall or els daungerous to prouoke excessiue sorrow 201. Archbyshops archdeacons names vnlawfull 82. c. Archbyshops names are not so auncient as they be supposed 88. c. Archbyshops and archdeacons offyces vnlawfull 83. c. Archbishops offices as they were in times past haue now no place with vs and of the small prerogatiue which they had then aboue other byshops 122. c. Archbyshops not spoken of by Cyprian nor bishops such as oures is but of S. Paules bishops 98. c. Archdeacons in times past how much they differed from oures now 96. Arguments of authority negatiuely or affirmatiuely out of the scripture good the vse of theÌ„ when they be drawne from men 25. B  QuestioÌ„s about Baptisme answered 172. c. QuestioÌ„s ministred to infaÌ„ts in Baptisme 169 Crossing in Baptisme wherof it rose 170. c Basile a poore Metropolitane 94. Byshops in tymes past most vnlike oure byshops now 106. c. General faults of the Boke of coÌ„mon prayer 131. Prescript forme of prayer at Burials inconuenient 200. Les lamenting the dead and les charges about Burials permitted vnto vs then to those vnder the law 200. c. Buryall sermons inconuenient 201. c. Buryall places where they were in the olde churches 69. C  Cathedral churches in times past those which are now greatly differ 204. Cathedral churches rightly called dens do hurt the good which they might do if they were conuerted into colledges or houses of study 205. â— â–ª Ceremonies must be tried by rules in the scripture and by which 27. Ceremonies making in the church belongeth vnto Ecclesiasticall persons 192. Difference betwene placing Ceremonies in the church which were not besâ—â—e tollerating those which are already placed 25. Chauncelers iurisdiction vnlawfull 188. c. Church hath not power to ordayne whether preaching or ministring of the sacramentes shal be priuate or publike 28. Church must not be framed vnto the common wealth but the
most effectuall and to geue as it were a sharper edge vnto the preaching of the word as also to be a wall to keepe it and make it contynue among vs I see there be sondry lettes which doe as it were with weapons stande vp to stoppe the passage and to hynder that it should not be setled amongst vs With the which albeit I wrastle hande to hande in thys booke yet for as much as we haue all dronke so deepe of the cuppe of vntruth that we do not only stumble at blockes which other men lay in our way but oftentymes we gather lettes vnto our selues in framyng a preiudice agaynst the truth I thought good to note shortly what those stumbling blockes are and although I can not remoue them yet to geue warning of them and to lende my hand to the weaker and simpler sort to helpe to ouerstride them The offences which are taken herein be eyther in respect of the cause or in respect of those which seeke to defend and promote the cause The cause is charged first with newnes and strangenes then as author of confusion and of disorder and last of all as enemy to princes magistrates and common wealthes For the first besides that it is no sufficient chalenge to say it is new strange there is no cause why it should be counted new which is confessed of those which mislyke it to haue bene for the most part vsed in the Apostles tymes nor why it should be esteemed straunge which is vsed now farre and neare of thys that side the sea and of no strangers but of those which are of the housholde of fayth And it shall more largely appeare in thys Booke that thys is no innouation but a renouation and the doctrine not new but renued no stranger but borne in Sion whereunto it being before vniustly banyshed ought now of ryght to bee restored And of confusion dysorder it is yet more vntruely accused For iustice may be as well accused for doing wrong as thys doctryne for bringing in disorder whose whole worke is to prouyde that nothing be done out of place out of time or otherwise then the condytion of euery mans calling will beare which putteth the people in subiection vnder their gouernoures the gouernoures in degree and order one vnder an other as the Elder vnderneath the Pastor and the Deacon vnderneath the Elder whych teacheth that a Particuler church shall giue place vnto a Prouinciall synode where many churches are and the Prouincial to a Nationall and likewyse that vnto the Generall if anye be and all vnto Christe and his worde When on the contrary parte those whych stand against thys doctrine are thereby compelled to bryng into the church great confusion and maruellous disorder whilest the pastors office is confounded wyth the deacons whilest women do minister the sacraments whych is lawful only for men whilest priuate men do that whych belongeth vnto publicke persons whilest publicke actions are done in priuate places whilest the church is shuffled wyth the common wealth whilest ciuill matters are handled by Ecclesiasticall persons and Ecclesiasticall by those whych be ciuill and to be short whilest no officer of the church keepeth his standing and one member doth take vpon it the office of an other Which things as they hazard the arme and destroy the body so they do presently hinder and will shortly if remeady be not prouided vtterly ouerthrowe the churche And therefore onles good order be in that whych was brought into the church by poperye and confusion in that whych was left vnto the church by the Apostles and that it be order that publike actions should be done in priuate places by priuate persons and by women that is appoynted to be done by men and confusion when the contrary is obserued and finally onles order haue an other definition or nature then hitherto hath bene read or heard of there is no cause why this doctrine which containeth the discipline and gouernment of the churche should be thus shamefully slaundered wyth confusion and disorder For the third poynt whych is that it is an enemy to magistrates and the common wealth if it be enough to accuse wythout proufe to say and shewe no reason innocency it selfe shall not be giltles Thys doctrine was in times past euen by their confession which wryte against it a friend vnto princes and magistrates when princes and magistrates were enemies vnto it and can it nowe be an enemy vnto princes and magistrates whych are frendes vnto it It helped and vpholded the common wealths whych were gouerned by tyrantes and can it hinder those whych are gouerned by godly princes And in what is it an ennemy to princes and magistrates Note the variance set downe the enemitie If the question be whether princes and magistrates be necessary in the church it holdeth that the vse of them is more then of the sunne wythout the whych the world cā not stand I fit be of their honor it holdeth that wyth humble subnussion of minde the outward also of the body yea the body it selfe and all that it hath if nede so require are to be yelded for the defence of the prince and for that seruice for the whych the prince will vse them vnto for the glory of God and maintenance of the common wealth If it be asked of the obedience due vnto the prince and vnto the magistrate it answeareth that all obedience in the Lord is to be rendred and if it come to passe that any other be asked it so refuseth that it disobayeth not in preferring obedience to the great God before that whych is to be geuen to mortall man It so resisteth that it submitteth the body and goodes of those that professe it to abide that whych God will haue them suffer in that case And if it be shewed that this is necessary for the church it can not be but profitable for the common wealth nay the profit of it may easly appeare for that by the censures and discipline of the church as they are in thys booke described men are kept back from committing of great disorders of stealing adultry murder c. whilest the smallest faultes of lying and vncomely iesting of harde and cholericke speaches whych the magistrate doth not commonly punishe be corrected And vndoubtedly seeing that the church common wealth do embrace and kisse one an other and seeing they be like vnto Hypocrates twinnes whych were sicke togither and well togither laughed togither and weeped togither and alwayes like affected it can not be but that the breaches of the common wealth haue proceeded from the hurtes of the church and the wants of the one from the lackes of the other Neyther is it to be hoped for that the common wealth shall flourishe vntill the church be reformed And it is also certaine that as the church shall euery day more and more decay vntill it be made eauen wyth the ground onles the walles be builded and the ruines
of certen that haue bene killed thereby you mighte as well bryng in a prayer that men may not haue falles frō their horses may not fal into the hands of robbers may not fall into waters and a number such more sodaine deathes wherwith a greater number are taken away then by thundrings or lightnings and such like and so there should be neuer any end of begging these earthly cōmodityes whych is contrary to the forme of prayer appoynted by our sauioure Christe And wheras you alledge the petition of the Lords prayer deliuer vs from euill to proue this prayer against Thunder c. besides that all the commodities and discommodities of thys life are prayed for and prayed against in that petition whereby we desire oure daily breade it is very straunge to apply that to the thunder that is vnderstanded of the deuill as the article apo tou ponerou dothe declare And that it is a maruellous cōclusion that for so much as we ought daily and ordinarily and publikely desire to be deliuered from the Deuill Ergo we oughte daily and ordinarily and publikely desire to be deliuered from thunder It is one thing to correct Magnificat and an other thing to shew the abuse of it And therfore I see no cause why you should vse this allusion betwene Magnificat significat vnles it be for that you purposing to set out all your learning in thys boke wold not so much as forget an old rotten prouerb whych trotted amongst the monkes in their cloisters of whome I may iustly say whych Tullie sayd in a nother thyng Nec quicquam ingenium potest monasterium that is the cloister coulde neuer bring forthe any witty thing for heere although there be Rythmus yet it is sine ratione As these are diuers things more then ought to be conueniently so wante there some things in the prayers There are prayers set forthe to be sayde in the common calamities and vniuersal scourges of the realme as plague famine c. and in dede so it ought to be by the word of God ioyned wyth a publike fast commaūded not only when we are in any calamity but also when any the churches round about vs or in any countrey receiue any generall plague or greeuous chastisement at the Lordes hand But as suche prayers are needefull whereby we beg release from our distresses so there ought to be as necessary prayers of thāks geuing whē we haue receiued those things at the Lords hand whych we asked in our prayers And thus much touching the matter of the prayers eyther not altogither sound or else too much or too little Concerning the fourme there is also to be misliked A great cause wherof is the folowing of the forme vsed in Popery against whych I haue before spoken For whilest that seruice was set in many poynts as a paterne of this it cometh to pas that in stead of suche prayers as the primitiue churches haue vsed those that be reformed now vse we haue diuers short cuts shreddings whych may be better called wishes then prayers And that no man thinke that thys is some idle fancie that it is no matter of weight what forme of prayer we vse so that the prayers be good it must be vnderstanded that as it is not sufficient to preach the same doctrine whych our sauior Christ hys apostles haue preached vnles the same forme of doctrine and of teaching be likewise kept so is it not enough that the matter of our prayer be such as is in the word of God vnles that the forme also be agreeable vnto the formes of prayers in the scripture Now we haue no such formes in the scripture as that we shuld pray in .ij. or .iij. lines and thē after hauing red a while some other thing come and pray as much more and so to the .xx. and .xxx. time wyth pauses betweene If a man shoulde come to a Prince and keepe suche order in making hys petitions vnto hym that hauing very many things to demaund after he had demaunded one thing he would stay a long time and then demaunde an other and so the thirde the prince myght well thinke that eyther he came to aske before he knew what he had nede of or that he had forgotten some pece of hys sute or that he were distracted in hys vnderstanding or some other such like cause of the disorder of his supplication And therfore how much more conuenient were it that according to the manner of the reformed churches first the minister wyth an hūble and general confession of faults shuld desire the assistance of the Lord for the frutefull handling and receiuing of the word of God and then after that we haue heard the Lord speake vnto vs in hys worde by hys minister the church should likewise speake vnto the Lord and present all those petitions and sutes at once bothe for the whole churche and for the Prince and all other estates whych shall be thought needefull And if any will say that there are short prayers found in the Actes it may be answeared that S. Luke doth not expres the whole prayers at large but only set downe the summes of them and their cheefe poyntes And further it may be answeared that alwayes those praiers were continued together and not cut off and shred into diuers small peeces An other fault is that all the people are appoynted in diuers places to saye after the minister wherby not only the time is vnprofitably wasted a confused voyce of the people one speaking after an other caused but an opinion bredde in their heads that those only be their prayers whych they say and pronounce with their owne mouthes whych causeth them to geue the les heede to the rest of the prayers whych they reherse not after the minister whych notwithstanding are as well their prayers as those whych they pronounce after the minister otherwise then the order whych is left vnto the church of God dothe beare For God hath ordained the minister to thys ende that as in publike meetings he only is the mouthe of the Lorde from hym to the people euen so he ought to be only the mouthe of the people from them vnto the Lorde and that all the people shoulde attende to that whych is sayde by the minister and in the ende bothe declare their consent to that whych is sayde and there hope that it shall so be and come to pas whych is prayed by the worde Amen as S. Paule declareth in the Epistle to the Corinthians And Iustine Martyr sheweth to haue bene the custome of the churches in hys time Although these blots in the Common prayer be such as may easely enough appeare vnto any whych is not wedded to a preiudicate opinion and that there is no great difficultye in thys matter yet I knowe that thys treatise of prayer will be subiect to many reprehensions and that there will not be wanting some probable coloures also wherby
of the learned doth thereby declare that it is not suffycient that he be well instructed in the mystery of saluation but that he haue also the gift of vtterance Afterwarde M. Doctor asketh whether S. Paule dyd not preache to the Romaines when he wrote vnto them No forsooth hys wryting to the Romaines was no more preaching then S. Paules hand or hys penne which were hys instrumentes to wryte with were hys tongue or hys lyghtes or any other partes which were hys instrumentes to speake with And S. Paule hym selfe wryting to the Romaines putteth a difference betwene hys wryting hys preaching when although he wrote vnto them yet he excuseth hym selfe that he could not come to preach vnto them saying that he was ready as much as lay in hym to preach vnto them But sayeth he was not the reading of Deuteronomie preaching No more then the reading of Erodus Heere be good proufes It is generally denyed that reading is preaching and Mayster Doctoure without any proufe taketh it for graunted that the reading of Deuteronomie is preaching All men see how pityfull reasons these be And in the. 162. page he alledgeth that in the Actes S. Luke seemeth to meane by reading preaching But what dealing is thys vpon a seeming and coniecture to set down so certenly and vndoubtedly that reading is preaching then there is no one letter nor sillable that vpholdeth any such coniecture For S. Iames sayth that Moyses meaning the law red euery Saboth through out euery towne in the sinagogue was also preached or had those that preached it setting forth the order which was vsed in all the churches amongst the people of God that alwayes when they met vpon the Saboth dayes they had the scriptures first redde and then preached of and expounded which is that the authors of the Admonition doe desire and therefore complayne for that after reading followeth no preaching which any indifferent man may easely vnderstand by that that they say In the olde tyme the worde was preached now it is supposed to be sufficient if it be red But Mayster Doctor heareth with hys left eare and readeth with hys left eye as though hys right eye were pulled out or hys ryght care cut of For otherwyse the other wordes which they haue touching thys matter myght easely haue bene expoūded by the argumēt matter which they handle Of mynistring of the sacramentes in priuate places by women I haue spoken before there remayneth therefore only in thys section to speake of the deacons that they ought not to minister the sacramēt Which although I haue done partly before partly afterward will do when I shall shew that it appertayneth not to them to minister the worde and therefore not the sacramentes being things the mynistery whereof ought not to be seuered yet I will in a worde answere those arguments that M. Doctor bryngeth for to proue that they may mynister the sacramentes Whereof the fyrst is that Phillip in the. 8. of the Acts baptysed There is great doubt amongst wryters which Phillip that was that S. Luke mentioneth in the eyght chapter of the Acts of the Apostles But I graūt him to be y Phillip that was the deacon answeare that he was no deacon then For the church of Ierusalem whereof he was deacon being scattered he could be no more deacon of it or distribute the money that was collected for the poore of the church And further I answeare that he was afterwarde an Euangelist and therefore preached not by vertue of hys deaconshyppe whose calling is not to preache but by that he was an Euangelist whose office put vpon hym a necessitie of preaching After you say that deacons are not permitted with vs to celebrate the Lordes supper and why then shoulde they be suffered to mynister baptisme as if the one sacrament were not as precious as the other Thys is a myserable rending a sonder of those things which God hath ioyned together not only to seperate the mynistery of the sacramentes from the word but also the mynistery of one sacrament from an other And what reason is there that it should be graunted vnto one that can not preach being as they call hym a mynister to mynister both the sacramentes whē as the same is not permitted vnto a deacon as they call hym which is able to preach I doe not speake it for that I woulde haue those which be deacons in deede that is which haue charge to prouide for the poore of some one congregation eyther preach or mynister the sacraments but I say that it is agaynst all reason to permit the mynistery of the sacramentes to those which can not preach to deny it to those which are able to preach In the. 118. page vnto the example of Phillip he addeth S. Stephen which was one of the deacons which he affirmeth to haue preached But I deny it for all that long oration which he hath in the 7. of the Actes is no sermon but a defence of hym selfe agaynst those accusations which were layde agaynst hym as M. Beza doth very learnedly substancially proue in hys annotations vpon those places of S. Stephens disputations defence Now to defend hym selfe being accused is lawfull not for the deacons only but for any other christian we read nothing that Stephen dyd there eyther touching the defence of hys cause or the sharpe rebuking of the obstinate phariseys and priestes but that the holy Martyrs of God which were no deacons nor mynisters haue done with vs when they haue bene conuented before their persecutors And where as he sayth that Philip baptised I haue shewed before by what authoritie he dyd it that is not in that he was a deacon but for that he was an Euangelist He addeth further out of Iustin Martyr that the deacons dyd distribute the bread the wyne in the admynistration of the supper Tullie sayth in a certayne place that it is as great a poynt of wysedome in an aduocate or pleader of causes to holde backe and to keepe close that which is hurtfull to hys cause as it is to speake that which is profitable M. Doctor obserueth none of these poyntes for besydes that the thinges which he brought for the defence of the seruice booke are such as they haue before appeared in seeking to defende it he manyfestly oppugneth it For before he sayde that the booke of seruice doth not permit deacons to mynister the supper of the Lord and that by way of alowing of the booke and here he proueth that the deacons dyd mynister the sacrament of the supper and that also as a thing which he doth alow of But to let that passe I beseech thee good Reader marke what a mynistring of the supper thys is which Iustin maketh mention of note with what conscience M. Doctor handeleth this cause Iustin saith that after the scriptures are red and preached of and prayers made bread and wine water was brought forth