we_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v not_o always_o easy_a to_o determine_v in_o particular_a occasion_n whether_o this_o or_o that_o doctrine_n be_v such_o because_o it_o may_v be_v doubtful_a whether_o it_o be_v against_o any_o scripture_n or_o divine_a tradition_n or_o definition_n of_o the_o church_n and_o much_o more_o whether_o the_o person_n be_v a_o heretic_n which_o require_v certain_a condition_n as_o capacity_n pertinacy_n sufficient_a proposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v not_o always_o so_o easy_o explicate_v and_o discern_v and_o for_o these_o respect_n s._n augustine_n in_o the_o place_n cite_v 102._o cite_v pag._n 102._o by_o you_o have_v good_a reason_n to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v hard_o to_o know_v what_o make_v a_o heretic_n but_o it_o be_v strange_a that_o you_o shall_v hold_v it_o to_o be_v so_o hard_a a_o matter_n to_o give_v a_o general_a definition_n of_o heresy_n or_o heretic_n since_o in_o this_o very_a section_n you_o dispatch_v it_o quick_o say_v he_o be_v just_o 98._o just_o pag._n 98._o esteem_v a_o heretic_n who_o yield_v not_o to_o scripture_n sufficient_o propound_v or_o as_o you_o say_v else_o where_o it_o be_v fundamental_a 250._o fundamental_a pag._n 250._o to_o a_o christian_n faith_n and_o necessary_a for_o his_o salvation_n that_o he_o believe_v all_o reveal_v truth_n of_o god_n whereof_o he_o may_v be_v convince_v that_o they_o be_v from_o god_n nay_o if_o you_o will_v speak_v with_o coherence_n to_o your_o own_o ground_n it_o be_v easy_a for_o you_o to_o define_v in_o all_o particular_a case_n what_o be_v damnable_a heresy_n for_o you_o i_o say_v who_o measure_n all_o heresy_n by_o opposition_n to_o scripture_n and_o further_o affirm_v that_o scripture_n be_v clear_a in_o all_o fundamental_a point_n for_o by_o this_o mean_v it_o will_v be_v easy_a for_o you_o to_o discern_v what_o error_n oppose_v those_o fundamental_a truth_n which_o be_v clear_o contain_v in_o scripture_n 4._o in_o your_o discourse_n concern_v the_o controversy_n between_o pope_n stephen_n and_o s._n cyprian_n you_o show_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o passion_n against_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o you_o impugn_v out_o of_o a_o epistle_n of_o firmilianus_n who_o at_o that_o time_n be_v a_o party_n against_o the_o pope_n and_o who_o in_o particular_a do_v afterward_o recant_v together_o with_o the_o other_o bishop_n who_o once_o join_v with_o s._n cyprian_n as_o we_o have_v already_o show_v out_o of_o s._n hierome_n &_o may_v be_v also_o see_v in_o a_o epistle_n of_o dionysius_n alexandrinus_n apud_fw-la eusch_n hist._n l._n 6._o c._n 7._o wherein_o firmilianus_n in_o particular_a be_v name_v &_o therefore_o you_o be_v inexcusable_a who_o say_v they_o persist_v in_o their_o opinion_n whereas_o the_o proceed_n of_o s._n stephen_n be_v necessary_a to_o prevent_v a_o pernicious_a error_n of_o rebaptise_v of_o such_o as_o have_v be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n which_o afterward_o be_v condemn_v by_o the_o whole_a church_n and_o as_o for_o s._n cyprian_n mild_a proceed_n which_o you_o so_o much_o commend_v out_o of_o your_o ill_a will_n to_o s._n stephen_n because_o he_o be_v pope_n s._n augustine_n say_v the_o thing_n which_o 25._o which_o de_fw-fr bapt._n cont_n donat._n lib._n 5._o cap._n 25._o cyprian_n in_o anger_n have_v spread_v against_o stephen_n i_o will_v not_o suffer_v to_o pass_v under_o my_o pen._n wherefore_o you_o can_v not_o have_v pick_v out_o a_o example_n more_o in_o favour_n of_o pope_n than_o this_o and_o you_o must_v give_v we_o leave_v not_o to_o credit_v what_o you_o say_v that_o both_o stephen_n and_o cyprian_n err_v in_o some_o sense_n for_o stephen_n only_o affirm_v that_o baptism_n be_v not_o invalide_v precise_o because_o it_o be_v give_v by_o heretic_n as_o s._n cyprian_n affirm_v it_o to_o be_v but_o yet_o if_o the_o heretic_n err_v either_o in_o the_o matter_n or_o form_n of_o baptism_n stephen_n never_o affirm_v such_o baptism_n to_o be_v valid_a which_o have_v be_v more_o than_o he_o grant_v even_o to_o the_o baptism_n of_o catholic_n 5._o your_o argument_n to_o prove_v that_o 112._o that_o pag._n 112._o concern_v our_o great_a safety_n we_o dispute_v against_o you_o as_o the_o donatist_n do_v against_o catholic_n i_o have_v answer_v 7._o answer_v cap._n 7._o num_fw-la 7._o in_o the_o first_o part._n you_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v that_o we_o be_v like_o the_o donatist_n who_o wash_v church_n wall_n and_o vestment_n of_o catholic_n break_v their_o chalice_n scrape_v their_o altar_n etc._n etc._n but_o i_o pray_v you_o consider_v whether_o chalice_n vestment_n pall_v or_o corporal_n and_o altar_n do_v express_v the_o protestant_a church_n of_o england_n scotland_n geneva_n holland_n etc._n etc._n or_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n 6._o you_o spend_v diverse_a page_n in_o propound_v argument_n for_o the_o opinion_n of_o m._n hooker_n and_o m._n morton_n that_o whersoever_o a_o company_n of_o man_n 113._o man_n pag._n 113._o do_v joint_o profess_v the_o substance_n of_o christian_a religion_n which_o be_v faith_n in_o jesus_n christ_n the_o son_n of_o god_n and_o saviour_n of_o the_o world_n with_o submission_n to_o his_o doctrine_n in_o mind_n and_o will_n there_o be_v a_o church_n wherein_o salvation_n may_v be_v have_v notwithstanding_o any_o corruption_n in_o ludgment_n or_o practice_n yea_o although_o it_o be_v of_o that_o nature_n that_o it_o seem_v to_o fight_v with_o the_o very_a foundation_n and_o so_o heinous_a as_o that_o in_o respect_n thereof_o the_o people_n stain_v with_o this_o corruption_n be_v worthy_a to_o be_v abhor_v of_o all_o man_n and_o unworthy_a to_o be_v call_v the_o church_n of_o god_n but_o because_o these_o and_o such_o monstruous_a assertion_n proceed_v from_o other_o error_n which_o i_o have_v already_o both_o clear_o and_o at_o large_a confute_v to_o wit_n the_o fallibility_n of_o the_o church_n the_o distinction_n of_o point_n fundamental_a and_o not_o fundamental_a etc._n etc._n i_o refer_v you_o to_o those_o place_n and_o here_o only_o observe_v into_o what_o precipice_n they_o fall_v who_o deny_v the_o universal_a infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n and_o it_o be_v strange_a that_o you_o yourself_o do_v not_o see_v the_o manifest_a contradiction_n involue_v in_o this_o wicked_a doctrine_n for_o how_o can_v it_o be_v a_o church_n wherein_o salvation_n may_v be_v have_v and_o yet_o be_v unworthy_a to_o be_v call_v the_o church_n of_o god_n how_o can_v that_o man_n have_v faith_n in_o jesus_n christ_n with_o submission_n to_o his_o doctrine_n in_o mind_n and_o will_n who_o be_v suppose_v to_o join_v with_o his_o belief_n in_o jesus_n christ_n other_o error_n sufficient_o propound_v to_o be_v repugnant_a against_o god_n word_n or_o revelation_n can_v submission_n in_o mind_n or_o will_n or_o observation_n of_o his_o commandment_n stand_v with_o actual_a voluntary_a error_n against_o his_o word_n be_v it_o not_o a_o prime_a commandment_n to_o believe_v god_n word_n do_v not_o yourself_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v infidelity_n to_o deny_v whatsoever_o be_v reveal_v in_o scripture_n how_o then_o can_v a_o church_n be_v say_v to_o have_v mean_n for_o salvation_n and_o life_n wherein_o be_v want_v faith_n the_o first_o ground_n of_o salvation_n the_o father_n sometime_o call_v the_o donatist_n brethren_n by_o reason_n of_o their_o true_a baptism_n not_o for_o their_o possibility_n to_o be_v save_v according_a as_o s._n augustine_n say_v to_o they_o the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n 48._o christ_n epist_n 48._o do_v not_o make_v thou_o a_o heretic_n but_o thy_o wicked_a disagreement_n and_o optatus_n say_v you_o can_v 4â—_n can_v lib._n 4â—_n but_o be_v our_o brethren_n who_o the_o same_o mother_n the_o church_n have_v beget_v in_o the_o same_o bowel_n of_o sacrament_n who_o god_n our_o father_n have_v in_o the_o same_o manner_n receive_v as_o adopt_a child_n namely_o on_o his_o behalf_n and_o for_o as_o much_o as_o concern_v the_o virtue_n of_o baptism_n the_o conclusion_n of_o your_o discourse_n may_v well_o beseem_v the_o doctrine_n for_o which_o you_o bring_v it_o a_o learned_a man_n 122._o man_n pag._n 122._o ancient_o be_v make_v a_o bishop_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n although_o he_o do_v profess_o doubt_v of_o the_o last_o resurrection_n of_o our_o body_n you_o may_v have_v add_v that_o he_o will_v not_o believe_v that_o the_o world_n shall_v ever_o have_v a_o end_n and_o further_o absolute_o refuse_v to_o be_v baptize_v and_o that_o he_o will_v not_o as_o the_o history_n recount_v live_v a_o single_a life_n as_o other_o priest_n but_o that_o he_o will_v live_v with_o a_o wife_n for_o synesius_n who_o be_v the_o man_n you_o mean_v public_o protest_v all_o these_o thing_n and_o you_o be_v wise_a enough_o to_o take_v only_o what_o may_v seem_v to_o serve_v your_o turn_n as_o this_o concern_v the_o single_a life_n of_o priest_n do_v not_o because_o it_o show_v that_o in_o those_o
ancient_a time_n priest_n can_v not_o live_v with_o wife_n and_o now_o i_o ask_v whether_o in_o good_a earnest_n you_o believe_v that_o one_o may_v be_v make_v a_o bishop_n who_o will_v not_o believe_v the_o resurrection_n nor_o will_v be_v baptize_v or_o whether_o he_o may_v be_v baptize_v against_o his_o will_n the_o answer_n therefore_o may_v be_v see_v in_o baronius_n who_o spond_n who_o anno_fw-la 410._o n._n 6._o spond_n demonstrate_v out_o of_o the_o epistle_n of_o synesius_n himself_o that_o he_o do_v these_o thing_n not_o to_o be_v make_v a_o bishop_n wish_v as_o he_o affirm_v rather_o to_o die_v then_o to_o endure_v so_o great_a a_o burden_n wherein_o say_v baronius_n he_o seem_v only_o to_o have_v do_v in_o word_n that_o which_o s._n ambrose_n pretend_v in_o deed_n which_o be_v to_o be_v esteem_v incontinent_a and_o unmerciful_a so_o to_o hinder_v his_o be_v make_v bishop_n but_o these_o extraordinary_a proceed_n may_v be_v admire_v but_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v imitate_v to_o say_v that_o the_o ten_o tribe_n notwithstanding_o their_o idolatry_n remain_v still_o a_o true_a church_n can_v but_o make_v any_o christian_a soul_n tremble_v to_o consider_v to_o what_o damnable_a absurdity_n and_o impiety_n they_o fall_v who_o leave_v the_o roman_a church_n you_o falfify_v magallanus_n 3.11_o magallanus_n in_o tit._n 3.11_o as_o if_o he_o with_o m._n hooker_n affirm_v that_o if_o a_o infidel_n 117._o infidel_n pag._n 117._o shall_v pursue_v to_o death_n a_o heretic_n only_o for_o christian_a profession_n sake_n the_o honour_n of_o martyrdom_n can_v not_o be_v deny_v to_o he_o which_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o word_n and_o meaning_n of_o magallanus_n for_o he_o express_o teach_v that_o they_o do_v not_o participate_v of_o the_o grace_n of_o the_o church_n but_o be_v dead_a part_n and_o consequent_o not_o capable_a of_o salvation_n only_o he_o say_v that_o they_o may_v be_v call_v member_n of_o the_o church_n because_o the_o church_n can_v judge_v and_o punish_v they_o it_o be_v impossible_a that_o any_o catholic_a author_n shall_v teach_v that_o a_o heretic_n remain_v a_o heretic_n that_o be_v actual_o and_o voluntary_o deny_v a_o reveal_v truth_n sufficient_o propound_v for_o such_o can_v be_v a_o martyr_n but_o such_o as_o you_o be_v may_v affirm_v what_o you_o please_v the_o word_n of_o saluianus_n â—_o saluianus_n de_fw-fr gnbern_n lib._n â—_o which_o you_o cite_v and_o say_v that_o they_o be_v very_o remarkable_a do_v only_o signify_v by_o way_n of_o doubt_n whether_o some_o of_o the_o heretic_n of_o who_o he_o speak_v and_o who_o in_o simplicity_n follow_v their_o teacher_n as_o he_o express_o say_v may_v not_o be_v excuse_v by_o ignorance_n and_o since_o you_o affirm_v that_o he_o speak_v of_o arian_n i_o will_v know_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o think_v arianisme_n to_o be_v a_o damnable_a heresy_n unless_o accidental_o ignorance_n excuse_v some_o particular_a person_n 7._o you_o say_v that_o 131._o that_o pag._n 131._o the_o error_n of_o the_o donatist_n concern_v the_o invalidity_n of_o the_o baptism_n give_v by_o heretic_n and_o of_o the_o novatians_n that_o the_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o absolve_v some_o grievous_a sinner_n be_v not_o in_o themselves_o heretical_a etc._n etc._n neither_o be_v it_o in_o the_o church_n intention_n or_o in_o her_o power_n to_o make_v they_o such_o by_o her_o declaration_n if_o these_o error_n neither_o in_o themselves_o nor_o by_o the_o declaration_n of_o the_o church_n be_v heretical_a i_o pray_v you_o how_o be_v they_o heretical_a may_v a_o man_n in_o these_o time_n hold_v they_o without_o note_n of_o heresy_n so_o you_o must_v say_v unless_o you_o grant_v the_o definition_n of_o god_n church_n to_o be_v infallible_a for_o s._n augustine_n profess_v that_o this_o point_n concern_v rebaptisation_n can_v be_v determine_v out_o of_o scripture_n alone_o as_o have_v be_v say_v before_o or_o if_o you_o say_v this_o error_n may_v be_v confute_v out_o of_o scripture_n than_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o it_o be_v in_o itself_o heretical_a which_o you_o deny_v but_o no_o wonder_n if_o by_o deny_v the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n you_o be_v bring_v to_o such_o strait_n i_o go_v on_o now_o to_o the_o next_o chap._n v._n in_o this_o section_n you_o handle_v three_o point_n first_o that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a only_o in_o fundamental_a point_n second_o that_o the_o general_n counsel_n and_o three_o that_o the_o pope_n may_v err_v in_o point_n fundamental_a concern_v the_o first_o i_o have_v speak_v in_o the_o first_o part_n the_o second_o and_o three_o be_v particular_a dispute_n from_o which_o you_o ought_v to_o have_v abstain_v if_o you_o have_v mean_v to_o have_v touch_v indeed_o the_o point_n of_o our_o controversy_n but_o since_o you_o will_v needs_o fill_v you_o book_n with_o such_o particular_n i_o must_v also_o go_v out_o of_o the_o way_n to_o answer_v your_o objection_n 2._o if_o i_o take_v pleasure_n as_o you_o do_v to_o fill_v my_o margin_n with_o quotation_n of_o author_n i_o can_v easy_o show_v how_o you_o mistake_v and_o wrong_v our_o schoolman_n as_o if_o they_o hold_v that_o something_o which_o in_o itself_o be_v not_o infinite_a but_o real_o distinct_a from_o the_o divine_a authority_n be_v the_o chief_a motive_n of_o faith_n the_o first_o and_o further_a principle_n into_o which_o it_o resolve_v whereas_o their_o difference_n be_v only_o in_o explicate_v under_o what_o precise_a and_o formal_a consideration_n god_n be_v the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n some_o assign_v the_o divinity_n itself_o other_o the_o authority_n of_o god_n command_v other_o which_o be_v the_o common_a opinion_n teach_v that_o it_o be_v resolve_v into_o the_o divine_a or_o prime_a verity_n and_o last_o even_o those_o who_o it_o seem_v you_o call_v unwise_a and_o unwarry_v writer_n against_o luther_n do_v not_o teach_v that_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o chief_a first_o and_o further_a principle_n into_o which_o faith_n resolve_v but_o at_o the_o most_o that_o her_o proposition_n be_v necessary_a to_o a_o act_n of_o divine_a faith_n either_o because_o they_o conceyve_v that_o matter_n of_o faith_n ought_v to_o concern_v the_o common_a good_a of_o religion_n and_o so_o require_v a_o public_a authority_n or_o propounder_n or_o else_o because_o they_o hold_v that_o her_o proposition_n in_o some_o sort_n enter_v into_o the_o formal_a object_n of_o faith_n in_o respect_n of_o we_o neither_o be_v the_o author_n of_o this_o opinion_n only_a writer_n against_o luther_n as_o you_o say_v but_o diverse_a other_o schoole-devines_a 3._o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o there_o be_v no_o question_n but_o that_o faith_n be_v supernatural_a in_o regard_n of_o the_o efsicient_a cause_n and_o of_o the_o object_n both_o which_o ought_v to_o be_v supernatural_a it_o seem_v you_o be_v willing_a to_o dissemble_v the_o doctrine_n of_o your_o great_a reformer_n zwinglius_fw-la who_o 159._o who_o tom._n 2._o exposit_n fidei_fw-la christianae_n fol._n 159._o out_o of_o his_o excessive_a charity_n place_v in_o heaven_n hercules_n theseus_n socrates_n aristides_n &c._n &c._n who_o have_v no_o supernatural_a faith_n nor_o belief_n of_o god_n as_o also_o the_o child_n of_o the_o heathen_n die_v without_o 540._o without_o tom._n 2._o fol._n 540._o baptism_n be_v not_o such_o charitable_a man_n very_o fit_a to_o reform_v the_o church_n 4._o you_o fall_v again_o upon_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n which_o point_n i_o have_v already_o answer_v &_o show_v in_o what_o sense_n all_o point_n of_o faith_n may_v be_v contain_v in_o scripture_n to_o wit_n in_o as_o much_o as_o the_o scripture_n do_v recommend_v to_o we_o the_o church_n and_o divine_a unwritten_a tradition_n neither_o can_v you_o allege_v any_o one_o catholic_a author_n ancient_a or_o modern_a who_o speak_v of_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n exclude_v tradition_n by_o which_o even_a scripture_n itself_o be_v deliver_v to_o us._n and_o as_o for_o s._n augustine_n and_o s._n basill_n who_o you_o allege_v for_o the_o sufficiency_n of_o scripture_n they_o be_v so_o clear_o for_o tradition_n that_o they_o have_v be_v tax_v by_o some_o protestant_n for_o that_o cause_n as_o likewise_o for_o the_o same_o reason_n some_o chief_a protestant_n have_v blame_v clemens_n alexandrinus_n origen_n epiphanius_n ambrose_n hierome_n maximus_n theophilus_n damascene_fw-la chrysostome_n tertullian_n cyprian_n leo_n eusebius_n and_o other_o as_o may_v be_v see_v in_o 22._o in_o tract_n 1._o sect._n 3_o subd_v 22._o brereley_o but_o though_o scripture_n alone_o do_v particular_o contain_v all_o point_n necessary_a to_o saluarion_n do_v it_o follow_v think_v you_o from_o thence_o that_o the_o church_n be_v not_o infallible_a may_v not_o both_o scripture_n and_o church_n be_v infallible_a in_o what_o they_o deliver_v do_v not_o yourself_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n be_v infallible_a for_o point_n fundamental_a and_o for_o
the_o church_n of_o their_o time_n for_o it_o seem_v you_o doubt_v whether_o indeed_o it_o be_v compose_v by_o the_o apostle_n themselves_o do_v understand_v the_o apostle_n aright_o &_o that_o the_o church_n of_o their_o time_n do_v intend_v that_o the_o creed_n shall_v contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n for_o if_o the_o church_n may_v err_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a may_v she_o not_o also_o err_v in_o the_o particular_n which_o i_o have_v specify_v can_v you_o show_v it_o to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n that_o the_o apostle_n intend_v to_o comprise_v all_o point_n of_o faith_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n in_o the_o creed_n yourself_o say_v no_o more_o than_o that_o it_o be_v very_o 241._o very_o pag._n 241._o probable_a which_o be_v far_o from_o reach_v to_o a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n your_o probability_n be_v ground_v upon_o the_o judgement_n of_o antiquity_n and_o even_o of_o the_o roman_a doctor_n as_o you_o say_v in_o the_o same_o place_n but_o if_o the_o catholic_a church_n may_v err_v what_o certainty_n can_v you_o expect_v from_o antiquity_n or_o doctor_n scripture_n be_v your_o total_a rule_n of_o faith_n cite_v therefore_o some_o text_n of_o scripture_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o apostle_n or_o the_o church_n of_o their_o time_n compose_v the_o creed_n and_o compose_v it_o with_o a_o purpose_n that_o it_o shall_v contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n of_o faith_n which_o be_v impossible_a to_o be_v do_v you_o must_v for_o the_o creed_n itself_o rely_v upon_o the_o infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n 4._o moreover_o the_o creed_n consist_v not_o so_o much_o in_o the_o word_n as_o in_o their_o sense_n and_o meaning_n all_o such_o as_o pretend_v to_o the_o name_n of_o christian_n recite_v the_o creed_n &_o yet_o many_o have_v err_v fundamental_o as_o well_o against_o the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n as_o other_o point_n of_o faith_n it_o be_v then_o very_a frivolous_a to_o say_v the_o creed_n contain_v all_o fundamental_a point_n without_o specify_v both_o in_o what_o sense_n the_o article_n of_o the_o creed_n be_v true_a and_o also_o in_o what_o true_a sense_n they_o be_v fundamental_a for_o both_o these_o task_n you_o be_v to_o perform_v who_o teach_v that_o all_o truth_n be_v not_o fundamental_a &_o you_o do_v but_o delude_v the_o ignorant_a when_o you_o say_v that_o the_o creed_n take_v in_o a_o catholic_a 216._o catholic_a pag._n 216._o sense_n comprehend_v all_o point_n fundamental_a because_o with_o you_o all_o catholic_a sense_n be_v not_o fundamental_a for_o so_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n that_o all_o christian_n shall_v know_v the_o whole_a scripture_n wherein_o every_o least_o point_n have_v a_o catholic_a sense_n or_o if_o by_o catholic_a sense_n you_o understand_v that_o sense_n which_o be_v so_o universal_o to_o be_v know_v and_o believe_v by_o all_o that_o whosoever_o fail_v therein_o can_v be_v save_v you_o trifle_v and_o say_v no_o more_o than_o this_o all_o point_n of_o the_o creed_n in_o a_o sense_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n or_o all_o point_v fundamental_a be_v fundamental_a after_o this_o manner_n it_o be_v a_o easy_a thing_n to_o make_v many_o true_a prognostication_n by_o say_v it_o will_v certain_o rain_v when_o it_o rain_v you_o say_v the_o creed_n 216._o creed_n pag._n 216._o be_v open_v and_o explain_v in_o some_o part_n in_o the_o creed_n of_o nice_a etc._n etc._n but_o how_o shall_v we_o understand_v the_o other_o part_n not_o explain_v in_o those_o creed_n 5._o for_o what_o article_n in_o the_o creed_n be_v more_o fundamental_a or_o may_v seem_v more_o clear_a then_o that_o wherein_o we_o believe_v jesus-christ_n to_o be_v the_o mediator_n redeemer_n and_o saviour_n of_o mankind_n and_o the_o founder_n and_o foundation_n of_o a_o catholic_a church_n express_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o yet_o about_o this_o article_n how_o many_o different_a doctrine_n be_v there_o not_o only_o of_o old_a heretic_n as_o arius_n nestorius_n eutiches_n etc._n etc._n but_o also_o of_o protestant_n partly_o against_o catholic_n and_o partly_o against_o one_o another_o for_o the_o say_v main_a article_n of_o christ_n be_v the_o only_a saviour_n of_o the_o world_n etc._n etc._n according_a to_o different_a sense_n of_o disagree_a sect_n do_v involve_v these_o and_o many_o other_o such_o question_n that_o faith_n in_o jesus-christ_n do_v justify_v alone_o that_o sacrament_n have_v no_o efficiency_n in_o justification_n that_o baptism_n do_v not_o avail_v infant_n for_o salvation_n unless_o they_o have_v a_o act_n of_o faith_n that_o there_o be_v no_o sacerdotal_a absolution_n from_o sin_n that_o good_a work_n proceed_v from_o god_n grace_n be_v not_o meritorious_a that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o satisfaction_n for_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n due_a to_o sin_n after_o the_o guilt_n or_o offence_n be_v pardon_v no_o purgatory_n no_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a no_o sacrifice_n of_o the_o mass_n no_o invocation_n no_o mediation_n or_o intercession_n of_o saint_n no_o inherent_a justice_n no_o supreme_a pastor_n yea_o no_o bishop_n by_o divine_a ordinance_n no_o real_a presence_n no_o transubstantiation_n with_o diverse_a other_o and_o why_o because_o forsooth_o these_o doctrine_n derogate_v from_o the_o title_n of_o mediator_n redeemer_n advocate_n foundation_n etc._n etc._n yea_o and_o be_v against_o the_o truth_n of_o our_o saviour_n humane_a nature_n if_o we_o believe_v diverse_a protestant_n write_v against_o transubstantiation_n let_v then_o any_o judicious_a man_n consider_v whether_o doctor_n potter_n or_o other_o do_v real_o satisfy_v when_o they_o send_v man_n to_o the_o creed_n for_o a_o perfect_a catalogue_n to_o distinguish_v point_n fundamental_a from_o those_o which_o they_o say_v be_v not_o fundamental_a if_o he_o will_v speak_v indeed_o to_o some_o purpose_n let_v he_o say_v this_o article_n be_v understand_v in_o this_o sense_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v fundamental_a that_o other_o be_v to_o be_v under_o stand_v in_o such_o a_o meaning_n yet_o according_a to_o that_o meaning_n it_o be_v not_o so_o fundamental_a but_o that_o man_n may_v disagree_v and_o deny_v it_o without_o damnation_n but_o it_o be_v no_o policy_n for_o any_o protestant_n to_o deal_v so_o plain_o 6._o but_o to_o what_o end_n shall_v we_o use_v many_o argument_n even_o yourself_o be_v force_v to_o limit_v your_o own_o doctrine_n and_o come_v to_o say_v that_o the_o creed_n be_v a_o perfect_a catalogue_n of_o fundamental_a point_n take_v as_o it_o be_v further_o open_v and_o explain_v in_o some_o part_n by_o occasion_n of_o emergent_a horisy_n in_o the_o other_o catholic_a creed_n of_o nice_a constantinople_n 216._o constantinople_n pag._n 216._o ephesus_n chalcedon_n and_o athanasius_n but_o this_o explication_n or_o restriction_n overthrow_v your_o assertion_n for_o as_o the_o apostle_n creed_n be_v not_o to_o we_o a_o sufficient_a catalogue_n till_o it_o be_v explain_v by_o the_o first_o council_n nor_o then_o till_o it_o be_v declare_v by_o another_o etc._n etc._n so_o now_o also_o as_o new_a heresy_n may_v arise_v it_o will_v need_v particular_a explanation_n against_o such_o emergent_a error_n and_o so_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o nor_o ever_o will_v be_v of_o itself_o alone_o a_o particular_a catalogue_n sufficient_a to_o distinguish_v betwixt_o fundamental_a and_o not_o fundamental_a point_n 7._o i_o come_v to_o the_o second_o part_n that_o the_o creed_n do_v not_o contain_v all_o main_a and_o principal_a point_n of_o faith_n and_o to_o the_o end_n we_o may_v not_o strive_v about_o thing_n either_o grant_v by_o we_o both_o or_o nothing_o concern_v the_o point_n in_o question_n i_o must_v premise_v these_o observation_n 8._o first_n that_o it_o can_v be_v deny_v but_o that_o the_o creed_n be_v most_o full_a and_o complete_a to_o that_o purpose_n for_o which_o the_o holy_a apostle_n inspire_v by_o god_n mean_v that_o it_o shall_v serve_v and_o in_o that_o manner_n as_o they_o do_v intend_v it_o which_o be_v not_o to_o comprehend_v all_o particular_a point_n of_o faith_n but_o such_o general_a head_n as_o be_v most_o befit_v and_o requisite_a for_o preach_v the_o faith_n of_o christ_n to_o jew_n and_o gentile_n and_o may_v be_v brief_o and_o compendious_o set_v down_o and_o easy_o learn_v and_o remember_v and_o therefore_o in_o respect_n of_o gentile_n the_o creed_n do_v mention_n god_n as_o creator_n of_o all_o thing_n and_o for_o both_o jew_n and_o gentile_n the_o trinity_n the_o messiah_n and_o saviour_n his_o birth_n life_n death_n resurrection_n and_o glory_n from_o who_o they_o be_v to_o hope_v remission_n of_o sin_n &_o life_n everlasting_a and_o by_o who_o sacred_a name_n they_o be_v to_o be_v distinguish_v from_o all_o other_o profession_n by_o be_v call_v christian_n according_a to_o which_o purpose_n s._n thomas_n of_o aquine_n 8._o aquine_n 2.2_o g._n 1._o art_n 8._o do_v distinguish_v all_o the_o
article_n of_o the_o creed_n into_o these_o general_a head_n that_o some_o belong_v to_o the_o majesty_n of_o the_o godhead_n other_o to_o the_o mystery_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n humane_a nature_n which_o two_o general_a object_n of_o faith_n the_o holy_a ghost_n do_v express_v and_o conjoin_v joan._n 17._o haec_fw-la est_fw-la vita_fw-la aterna_fw-la etc._n etc._n this_o be_v life_n everlasting_a that_o they_o know_v thou_o true_a god_n and_o who_o thou_o have_v send_v jesus_n christ_n but_o it_o be_v not_o their_o meaning_n to_o give_v we_o as_o it_o be_v a_o course_n of_o divinity_n or_o a_o catechism_n or_o a_o particular_a expression_n of_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n leave_v those_o thing_n to_o be_v perform_v as_o occasion_n shall_v require_v by_o their_o own_o word_n or_o writing_n for_o their_o time_n and_o afterward_o by_o their_o successor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n our_o question_n then_o be_v not_o whether_o the_o creed_n be_v perfect_a as_o far_o as_o the_o end_n for_o which_o it_o be_v compose_v do_v require_v for_o we_o believe_v &_o be_v ready_a to_o give_v our_o life_n for_o this_o but_o only_o we_o deny_v that_o the_o apostle_n do_v intend_v to_o comprise_v therein_o all_o particular_a point_n of_o belief_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n as_o even_o by_o d._n potter_n own_o 235.215_o own_o pag._n 235.215_o confession_n it_o do_v not_o comprehend_v agenda_fw-la or_o thing_n belong_v to_o practice_v as_o sacrament_n commandment_n the_o act_n of_o hope_n and_o duty_n of_o charity_n which_o we_o be_v oblige_v not_o only_o to_o practice_v but_o also_o to_o beliene_n by_o divine_a infallible_a faith_n will_v he_o therefore_o infer_v that_o the_o creed_n be_v not_o perfect_a because_o it_o contain_v not_o all_o those_o necessary_a and_o fundamental_a object_n of_o faith_n he_o will_v answer_v no_o because_o the_o apostle_n intend_v only_o to_o express_v credenda_fw-la thing_n to_o be_v believe_v not_o practise_v let_v he_o therefore_o give_v we_o leave_v to_o say_v that_o the_o creed_n be_v perfect_a because_o it_o want_v none_o of_o those_o object_n of_o belief_n which_o be_v intend_v to_o be_v set_v down_o as_o we_o explicate_v before_o 9_o the_o second_o observation_n be_v that_o to_o satisfy_v our_o question_n what_o point_v in_o particular_a be_v fundamental_a it_o will_v not_o be_v sufficient_a to_o allege_v the_o creed_n unless_o it_o contain_v all_o such_o point_n either_o express_o &_o immediate_o or_o else_o in_o such_o manner_n that_o by_o evident_a and_o necessary_a consequence_n they_o may_v be_v deduce_v from_o article_n both_o clear_o and_o particular_o contain_v therein_o for_o if_o the_o deduction_n be_v doubtful_a we_o shall_v not_o be_v sure_a that_o such_o conclusion_n be_v fundamental_a or_o if_o the_o article_n themselves_o which_o be_v say_v to_o be_v fundamental_a be_v not_o distinct_o and_o particular_o express_v they_o will_v not_o serve_v we_o to_o know_v and_o distinguish_v all_o point_n fundamental_a from_o those_o which_o they_o call_v not_o fundamental_a we_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o all_o point_n of_o faith_n both_o fundamental_a and_o not_o fundamental_a may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v contain_v in_o the_o creed_n in_o some_o sense_n as_o for_o example_n implicit_o general_o or_o in_o some_o such_o involue_v manner_n for_o when_o we_o explicit_o believe_v the_o catholic_a church_n we_o do_v implicit_o believe_v whatsoever_o she_o propose_v as_o belong_v to_o faith_n or_o else_o by_o way_n of_o reduction_n that_o be_v when_o we_o be_v once_o instruct_v in_o the_o belief_n of_o particular_a point_n of_o faith_n not_o express_v nor_o by_o necessary_a consequence_n deducible_a from_o the_o creed_n we_o may_v afterward_o by_o some_o analogy_n or_o proportion_n and_o resemblance_n reduce_v it_o to_o one_o or_o more_o of_o those_o article_n which_o be_v explicit_o contain_v in_o the_o symbol_n thus_o s._n thomas_n the_o cherubin_n among_o divines_n teach_v 6._o teach_v 2._o 23_o q._n â—â—_o be_v 8._o ad_fw-la 6._o that_o the_o miraculous_a existence_n of_o our_o bless_a saviour_n body_n in_o the_o eucharist_n as_o likewise_o all_o his_o other_o miracle_n be_v reduce_v to_o god_n omnipotency_n express_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o doctor_n potter_n say_v the_o eucharist_n 2â—â—_n eucharist_n pag._n 2â—â—_n be_v a_o seal_n of_o that_o holy_a union_n which_o we_o have_v with_o christ_n our_o head_n by_o his_o spirit_n and_o faith_n and_o with_o the_o saint_n his_o member_n by_o charity_n be_v evident_o include_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n but_o this_o reductive_a way_n be_v far_o from_o be_v sufficient_a to_o infer_v out_o of_o the_o article_n of_o god_n omnipotency_n or_o of_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n that_o our_o saviour_n body_n be_v in_o the_o eucharist_n and_o much_o less_o whether_o it_o be_v only_o in_o figure_n or_o else_o in_o reality_n by_o transubstantiation_n or_o consubstantiation_n etc._n etc._n and_o least_o of_o all_o whether_o or_o no_o these_o point_n be_v fundamental_a and_o you_o hyperbolise_v in_o say_v the_o eucharist_n be_v evident_o include_v in_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n as_o if_o there_o can_v not_o have_v be_v or_o be_v not_o a_o communion_n of_o saint_n before_o the_o bless_a sacrament_n be_v institute_v yet_o it_o be_v true_a that_o after_o we_o know_v and_o believe_v there_o be_v such_o a_o sacrament_n we_o may_v refer_v it_o to_o some_o of_o those_o head_n express_v in_o the_o creed_n and_o yet_o so_o as_o s._n thomas_n refer_v it_o to_o one_o article_n and_o d._n potter_n to_o another_o and_o in_o respect_n of_o different_a analogy_n or_o effect_n it_o may_v be_v refer_v to_o several_a article_n the_o like_a i_o say_v of_o other_o point_n of_o faith_n which_o may_v in_o some_o sort_n be_v reduce_v to_o the_o creed_n but_o nothing_o to_o d._n potter_n purpose_n but_o contrary_o it_o show_v that_o your_o affirm_v such_o and_o such_o point_n to_o be_v fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a be_v mere_o arbitrary_a to_o serve_v your_o turn_n as_o necessity_n and_o your_o occasion_n may_v require_v which_o be_v a_o old_a custom_n among_o heretic_n as_o we_o read_v in_o 22._o in_o de_fw-fr peccat_fw-la orig._n count_v pelag._n l._n 2._o cap._n 22._o s._n augustine_n pelagius_n and_o celestius_fw-la desire_v fraudulent_o to_o avoid_v the_o hateful_a name_n of_o heresy_n affirm_v that_o the_o question_n of_o original_a sin_n may_v be_v dispute_v without_o danger_n of_o faith_n but_o this_o holy_a father_n affirm_v that_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o foundation_n of_o faith_n we_o may_v say_v he_o endure_v a_o disputant_n who_o err_v in_o other_o question_n not_o yet_o diligent_o examine_v not_o yet_o diligent_o establish_v by_o the_o whole_a authority_n of_o the_o church_n their_o error_n may_v be_v bear_v with_o but_o it_o must_v not_o pass_v so_o far_o as_o to_o attempt_v to_o shake_v the_o foundation_n of_o the_o church_n we_o see_v s._n augustine_n place_v the_o be_v of_o a_o point_n fundamental_a or_o not_o fundamental_a in_o that_o it_o have_v be_v examine_v and_o establish_v by_o the_o church_n although_o the_o point_n of_o which_o he_o speak_v namely_o original_a sin_n be_v not_o contain_v in_o the_o creed_n 10._o out_o of_o that_o which_o have_v be_v say_v i_o infer_v that_o doctor_n potter_n pain_n in_o allege_v catholic_a doctor_n the_o ancient_a father_n and_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o creed_n contain_v all_o point_n of_o faith_n be_v needless_a since_o we_o grant_v it_o in_o manner_n aforesaid_a but_o doctor_n potter_n can_v not_o in_o his_o conscience_n believe_v that_o catholic_a divines_n or_o the_o council_n of_o trent_n and_o the_o holy_a father_n do_v intend_v that_o all_o point_n in_o particular_a which_o we_o be_v oblige_v to_o believe_v be_v contain_v explicit_o in_o the_o creed_n he_o know_v well_o enough_o that_o all_o catholic_n hold_v themselves_o oblige_v to_o believe_v all_o those_o point_n which_o the_o say_a council_n define_v to_o be_v believe_v under_o a_o anathema_n and_o that_o all_o christian_n believe_v the_o commandment_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v not_o express_v in_o the_o creed_n 11._o neither_o must_v this_o seem_v strange_a for_o who_o be_v ignorant_a that_o summary_n epitom'e_n &_o the_o like_a brief_a abstract_n be_v not_o intend_v to_o specify_v all_o particular_n of_o that_o science_n or_o subject_n to_o which_o they_o belong_v for_o as_o the_o creed_n be_v say_v to_o contain_v all_o point_n of_o faith_n so_o the_o decalogue_n comprehend_v all_o article_n as_o i_o may_v term_v they_o which_o concern_v charity_n and_o good_a life_n and_o yet_o this_o can_v be_v so_o understand_v as_o if_o we_o be_v disoblige_v from_o performance_n of_o any_o duty_n or_o the_o eschew_v of_o any_o vice_n unless_o it_o be_v express_v in_o the_o ten_o commandment_n for_o to_o omit_v the_o precept_n of_o receive_v
for_o example_n to_o consecrate_v the_o eucharist_n to_o ordain_v priest_n &c._n &c._n they_o can_v lawful_o exercise_v 7._o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o holy_a father_n schism_n be_v a_o most_o grievous_a offence_n s._n chrysostome_n ephes_n chrysostome_n hom._n 11._o in_o ep_n ad_fw-la ephes_n compare_v these_o schismatical_a devider_n of_o christ_n mystical_a body_n to_o those_o who_o sacrilegious_o pierce_v his_o natural_a body_n say_v nothing_o do_v so_o much_o incense_n god_n as_o that_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v divide_v although_o we_o shall_v do_v innumerable_a good_a work_n if_o we_o divide_v the_o full_a ecclesiastical_a congregation_n we_o shall_v be_v punish_v no_o less_o than_o they_o who_o tear_v his_o natural_a body_n for_o that_o be_v do_v to_o the_o gain_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n although_o not_o with_o that_o intention_n but_o this_o have_v no_o profit_n at_o all_o but_o there_o arise_v from_o it_o most_o great_a harm_n these_o thing_n be_v speak_v not_o only_o to_o those_o who_o bear_v office_n but_o also_o to_o those_o who_o be_v govern_v by_o they_o behold_v how_o neither_o a_o moral_a good_a life_n which_o conceit_n deceive_v many_o nor_o authority_n of_o magistrate_n nor_o any_o necessity_n of_o obey_v superior_n can_v excuse_v schism_n from_o be_v a_o most_o heinous_a offence_n optatus_n milevitanus_fw-la parmen_fw-la milevitanus_fw-la lib._n count_v parmen_fw-la call_v schism_n ingens_fw-la flagitium_fw-la a_o huge_a crime_n and_o speak_v to_o the_o donatist_n say_v that_o schism_n be_v evil_a in_o the_o high_a degree_n even_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o deny_v no_o less_o pathetical_a be_v s._n augustine_n upon_o this_o subject_n he_o reckon_v schismatic_n among_o pagan_n heretic_n and_o jew_n say_v religion_n be_v to_o be_v seek_v neither_o in_o the_o confusion_n of_o pagan_n nor_o 6._o nor_o lib._n de_fw-fr vera_fw-la relig._n cap._n 6._o in_o the_o filth_n of_o heretic_n nor_o in_o the_o languish_n of_o schismatic_n nor_o in_o the_o age_n of_o the_o jew_n but_o among_o those_o alone_a who_o be_v call_v christian_n catholic_n or_o orthodox_n that_o be_v lover_n of_o unity_n in_o the_o whole_a body_n and_o follower_n of_o truth_n nay_o he_o esteem_v they_o worse_o than_o infidel_n and_o idolater_n say_v those_o who_o the_o donatist_n 8._o donatist_n cont._n donatist_n l._n 1._o cap._n 8._o heal_n from_o the_o wound_n of_o infidelity_n and_o idolatry_n they_o hurt_v more_o grieous_o with_o the_o wound_n of_o schism_n let_v here_o those_o man_n who_o be_v please_v untrue_o to_o call_v we_o idolater_n reflect_v upon_o themselves_o and_o consider_v that_o this_o holy_a father_n judge_v schismatic_n as_o they_o be_v to_o be_v worse_o than_o idolater_n which_o they_o absurd_o call_v we_o and_o this_o he_o prove_v by_o the_o example_n of_o core_n dathan_n and_o abiron_n and_o other_o rebellious_a schismatic_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n who_o be_v convey_v alive_a down_o into_o hell_n and_o punish_v more_o open_o than_o idolater_n no_o doubt_n say_v this_o holy_a father_n but_o 6._o but_o ibid._n lib._n 2._o cap._n 6._o that_o be_v commit_v most_o wicked_o which_o be_v punish_v most_o severe_o in_o another_o place_n he_o yoak_v schism_n with_o heresy_n say_v upon_o the_o eight_o beatitude_n many_o 5._o many_o de_fw-fr serm_n dom._n in_o moute_n â—_o 5._o heretic_n under_o the_o name_n of_o christian_n deceive_v man_n soul_n do_v suffer_v many_o such_o thing_n but_o therefore_o they_o be_v exclude_v from_o this_o reward_n because_o it_o be_v not_o only_o say_v happy_a be_v they_o who_o suffer_v persecution_n but_o there_o be_v add_v for_o justice_n but_o where_o there_o be_v not_o sound_a faith_n there_o can_v be_v justice_n neither_o can_v schismatic_n promise_v to_o themselves_o any_o part_n of_o this_o reward_n because_o likewise_o where_o there_o be_v no_o charity_n there_o can_v be_v justice_n and_o in_o another_o place_n yet_o more_o effectual_o he_o say_v be_v out_o of_o 204_o of_o epist._n 204_o the_o church_n and_o divide_v from_o the_o heap_n of_o unity_n and_o the_o bond_n of_o charity_n thou_o shall_v be_v punish_v with_o eternal_a death_n though_o thou_o shall_v be_v burn_v alive_a for_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n and_o in_o another_o place_n he_o have_v these_o word_n if_o he_o hear_v not_o the_o church_n let_v he_o be_v to_o 17._o to_o count_v advers_a leg_n &_o prophet_n lib_n 2._o cap._n 17._o thou_o as_o a_o heathen_a or_o publican_n which_o be_v more_o grievous_a than_o if_o he_o be_v smite_v with_o the_o sword_n consume_v with_o flame_n or_o cast_v to_o wild_a beast_n and_o else_o where_o out_o of_o the_o catholic_a church_n say_v he_o one_o emerit_fw-la one_o de_fw-fr gest_n cum_fw-la emerit_fw-la may_v have_v faith_n sacrament_n order_n and_o in_o sum_n all_o thing_n except_o salvation_n with_o s._n augustine_n his_o country_n man_n and_o second_o self_n in_o sympathy_n of_o spirit_n s._n fulgentius_n agree_v say_v believe_v this_o pet._n this_o de_fw-fr fide_fw-la ad_fw-la pet._n steadfast_o without_o doubt_v that_o every_o heretic_n or_o schismatique_a baptize_v in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o father_n the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n if_o before_o the_o end_n of_o his_o life_n he_o be_v not_o reconcile_v to_o the_o catholic_a church_n what_o alm_n soever_o he_o give_v yea_o though_o he_o shall_v shed_v his_o blood_n for_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n he_o can_v obtain_v salvation_n mark_v again_o how_o no_o moral_a honesty_n of_o life_n no_o good_a deed_n no_o martyrdom_n can_v without_o repentance_n avail_v any_o schismatique_n for_o salvation_n let_v we_o also_o add_v that_o d._n potter_n say_v schism_n be_v no_o less_o 42._o less_o pag._n 42._o damnable_a than_o heresy_n 8._o but_o o_o you_o holy_a learned_a zealous_a father_n and_o doctor_n of_o god_n church_n out_o of_o these_o premise_n of_o the_o grievousnes_n of_o schism_n &_o of_o the_o certain_a damnation_n which_o it_o bring_v if_o unrepented_a what_o conclusion_n draw_v you_o for_o the_o instruction_n of_o christian_n s._n augustine_n make_v this_o wholesome_a inference_n there_o be_v â—2_n be_v cont._n parm._n lib._n 2._o cap._n â—2_n no_o just_a necessity_n to_o divide_v unity_n s._n ireneus_fw-la conclude_v they_o can_v 62._o can_v count_v haeres_fw-la lib._n 4._o c._n 62._o make_v any_o so_o important_a reformation_n as_o the_o evil_a of_o the_o schism_n be_v pernicious_a s._n denis_n of_o alexandria_n say_v certain_o 6._o certain_o apud_fw-la euseb_n hist_o eccles_n lib._n 6._o all_o thing_n shall_v rather_o be_v endure_v then_o to_o consent_v to_o the_o division_n of_o the_o church_n of_o god_n these_o martyr_n be_v no_o less_o glorious_a that_o expose_v themselves_o to_o hinder_v the_o dismember_n of_o the_o church_n then_o those_o that_o suffer_v rather_o than_o they_o will_v effer_fw-la sacrifice_n to_o idol_n will_v to_o god_n all_o those_o who_o divide_v themselves_o from_o that_o visible_a church_n of_o christ_n which_o be_v upon_o earth_n when_o luther_n appear_v will_v right_o consider_v of_o these_o thing_n and_o thus_o much_o of_o the_o second_o point_n 9_o point_n 1._o point_n we_o have_v just_a and_o necessary_a occasion_n eternal_o to_o bless_v almighty_a god_n who_o have_v vouchsafe_v to_o make_v we_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_a roman_a church_n church_n perpetual_a visibility_n of_o the_o church_n from_o which_o while_n man_n fall_v they_o precipitate_v themselves_o into_o so_o vast_a absurdity_n or_o rather_o sacrilegious_a blasphemy_n as_o be_v employ_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o total_a deficiency_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n which_o yet_o be_v maintain_v by_o diverse_a chief_a protestant_n as_o may_v at_o large_a be_v see_v in_o brereley_o and_o other_o out_o of_o who_o i_o will_v here_o name_v jewel_n say_v the_o truth_n be_v unknown_a 426._o unknown_a apolog._n part_n 4._o cap._n 4._o divis_fw-la 2_o and_o in_o his_o defence_n print_v ann._n 1571._o pagâ—_n 426._o at_o that_o time_n and_o unheard_a of_o when_o martin_n luther_n and_o vlderick_n zuinglius_fw-la first_fw-mi come_v unto_o the_o knowledge_n and_o preach_v of_o the_o gospel_n perkins_n say_v we_o say_v that_o 400._o that_o in_o his_o exposition_n upon_o the_o creed_n pag._n 400._o before_o the_o day_n of_o luther_n for_o the_o space_n of_o many_o hundred_o year_n a_o universal_a apostasy_n overspread_v the_o whole_a face_n of_o the_o earth_n and_o that_o our_o protestant_n church_n be_v not_o then_o visible_a to_o the_o world_n napier_n upon_o the_o revelation_n teach_v that_o from_o the_o year_n of_o 68_o of_o propost_n 37._o pag._n 68_o christ_n three_o hundred_o and_o sixteen_o the_o antichristian_a and_o papistical_a reign_n have_v begin_v reign_v universal_o and_o without_o any_o debatable_a contradiction_n one_o thousand_o two_o hundred_o sixty_o year_n that_o be_v till_o luther_n time_n and_o that_o from_o the_o year_n of_o 3._o of_o ibid._n in_o cap._n 12._o pag._n 161._o col_fw-fr
to_o our_o saviour_n christ_n high_a adoration_n be_v exhibit_v as_o to_o god_n or_o as_o bellarmine_n 9_o bellarmine_n de_fw-fr purg._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o say_v we_o distinguish_v saint_n from_o christ_n because_o we_o offer_v sacrifice_n of_o thanksgiving_a for_o saint_n but_o we_o do_v not_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o christ_n but_o to_o he_o together_o with_o the_o father_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n you_o likewise_o falsify_v s._n epiphanius_n while_o you_o say_v out_o of_o he_o that_o the_o live_a have_v hope_n for_o the_o decease_a as_o for_o those_o which_o be_v from_o home_n in_o another_o country_n and_o that_o at_o length_n they_o shall_v attain_v the_o state_n which_o be_v more_o perfect_a which_o last_o word_n be_v not_o in_o s._n epiphanius_n who_o never_o teach_v that_o we_o offer_v prayer_n for_o saint_n that_o they_o may_v attain_v a_o state_n which_o be_v more_o perfect_a and_o when_o s._n epiphanius_n say_v that_o those_o who_o pray_v for_o their_o brethren_n have_v hope_n of_o they_o as_o of_o those_o who_o be_v in_o another_o country_n you_o leave_v out_o pray_v and_o only_o put_v in_o hope_n and_o that_o you_o may_v be_v assure_v how_o contrary_a s._n epiphanius_n be_v to_o you_o not_o only_o in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a but_o also_o in_o the_o ground_n and_o reason_n for_o which_o he_o belâ—â—ues_v it_o namely_o tradition_n mark_v his_o word_n the_o church_n say_v he_o in_o the_o same_o place_n do_v necessary_o practice_v this_o by_o tradition_n receive_v from_o our_o ancestor_n and_o who_o can_v break_v the_o ordination_n of_o his_o mother_n and_o the_o law_n of_o his_o father_n as_o salomoâ—_n say_v hear_v o_o son_n the_o word_n of_o thy_o father_n and_o retect_v not_o the_o ordination_n of_o thy_o mother_n show_v by_o this_o that_o god_n the_o father_n the_o son_n and_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v teach_v both_o by_o writing_n and_o without_o writing_n behold_v divine_a tradition_n and_o our_o mother_n the_o church_n have_v also_o in_o herself_o ordinance_n inviolable_a which_o can_v be_v break_v behold_v ecclesiastical_a tradition_n since_o therefore_o there_o be_v ordinance_n set_v down_o in_o the_o church_n and_o that_o all_o be_v right_a and_o admirable_a this_o seducer_n aërius_n remain_v confute_v and_o together_o with_o he_o all_o those_o that_o follow_v his_o heresy_n and_o let_v we_o yet_o hear_v s._n epiphanius_n speak_v a_o little_a before_o of_o another_o point_n thus_o but_o who_o know_v most_o of_o these_o thing_n whether_o this_o delude_a fellow_n aërius_n who_o be_v yet_o aliuâ—â—_n etc._n etc._n or_o those_o who_o before_o we_o have_v yield_v testimony_n and_o have_v have_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n which_o also_o be_v deliver_v from_o their_o forefather_n as_o they_o likewise_o learn_v of_o those_o who_o be_v before_o they_o in_o which_o manner_n the_o church_n do_v still_o conserve_v the_o true_a faith_n receive_v from_o their_o forefather_n and_o also_o tradition_n consider_v now_o with_o what_o reason_n you_o allege_v s._n epiphanius_n as_o one_o who_o say_v that_o all_o heresy_n be_v to_o be_v confute_v by_o evidence_n of_o scripture_n whereas_o he_o do_v clear_o avouch_v tradition_n in_o general_a and_o do_v in_o particular_a consute_n the_o heresy_n of_o aerius_n without_o allege_v so_o much_o as_o one_o text_n of_o scripture_n 13._o and_o though_o s._n epiphanius_n alone_o may_v suffice_v both_o to_o assure_v we_o what_o be_v the_o heresy_n of_o aërius_n in_o who_o time_n he_o live_v and_o also_o to_o witness_v for_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o greek_a father_n yea_o &_o for_o the_o whole_a church_n because_o he_o avouch_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a to_o come_v from_o the_o tradition_n of_o god_n church_n yet_o i_o will_v add_v some_o more_o of_o the_o greek_a church_n as_o s._n dionysius_n areopagita_n who_o say_v then_o the_o venerable_a 1._o venerable_a eccles_n hierarch_n cap._n 1._o bishop_n do_v pray_v over_o the_o dead_a party_n that_o the_o divine_a goodness_n will_v pardon_v all_o his_o sin_n commit_v by_o humane_a frailty_n and_o transfer_v he_o to_o light_n and_o the_o country_n of_o the_o live_n i_o wonder_v then_o how_o in_o your_o text_n your_o can_v tell_v we_o that_o 37._o that_o pag._n 37._o conformable_o to_o your_o opinion_n the_o ancient_a church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n remember_v all_o those_o that_o sleep_v in_o hope_n of_o the_o resurrection_n of_o everlasting_a life_n and_o particular_o the_o patriarch_n prophet_n apostle_n martyr_n &c._n &c._n beseech_v god_n to_o give_v they_o rest_n and_o to_o bring_v they_o you_o put_v in_o a_o parenthesis_n at_o the_o resurrection_n to_o the_o place_n where_o the_o light_n of_o his_o countenance_n shall_v shine_v upon_o they_o for_o evermore_o and_o in_o your_o margin_n you_o cite_v s._n dionysius_n as_o favour_v you_o who_o nevertheless_o in_o the_o very_a chapter_n which_o you_o cite_v for_o your_o opinion_n be_v direct_o against_o you_o in_o the_o word_n even_o now_o allege_v the_o like_a fincerity_n you_o show_v in_o the_o very_a same_o margin_n in_o cite_v s._n cyril_n who_o do_v clear_o affirm_v that_o in_o the_o sacrifice_n we_o remember_v some_o that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o other_o that_o they_o may_v be_v relieve_v by_o our_o prayer_n and_o sacrifice_n in_o these_o word_n when_o we_o offer_v this_o sacrifice_n 5._o sacrifice_n catech._n 5._o we_o make_v mention_n of_o those_o who_o be_v decease_v of_o patriarch_n etc._n etc._n that_o god_n will_v receyve_v our_o prayer_n by_o their_o intercession_n and_o we_o pray_v for_o all_o who_o be_v decease_v believe_v that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o great_a help_n to_o those_o for_o who_o the_o obsecration_n of_o that_o holy_a and_o dreadful_a sacrifice_n be_v offer_v s._n gregory_n nyssen_n say_v he_o can_v after_o his_o departure_n mortuis_fw-la departure_n in_o orat._n pro_fw-la mortuis_fw-la from_o the_o body_n be_v make_v partaker_n of_o the_o divinity_n unless_o the_o purge_a fire_n shall_v cleanse_v the_o stain_n of_o his_o soul_n 14._o among_o the_o latin_a father_n protestant_n pretend_v to_o esteem_v none_o more_o than_o s._n augustine_n and_o yet_o none_o can_v speak_v more_o plain_o against_o they_o in_o this_o point_n than_o he_o do_v who_o beside_o that_o he_o rank_n aenrius_n among_o the_o heretic_n in_o another_o place_n he_o say_v purge_v i_o 37._o i_o in_o psal_n 37._o in_o this_o life_n in_o such_o sort_n as_o that_o i_o may_v not_o need_v the_o correct_v or_o amend_v fire_n and_o afterward_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v be_v save_v as_o if_o it_o be_v by_o fire_n and_o because_o it_o be_v say_v he_o shall_v be_v save_v that_o fire_n grow_v to_o be_v contemn_v but_o so_o it_o be_v though_o he_o shall_v be_v save_v yet_o the_o pain_n of_o that_o fire_n be_v more_o grievous_a than_o whatsoever_o a_o man_n can_v suffer_v in_o this_o life_n and_o elsw_o where_o some_o suffer_v 13._o suffer_v de_fw-fr civet_n lib._n 21._o c._n 13._o temporal_a punishment_n only_o in_o this_o life_n other_o after_o death_n other_o both_o now_o and_o then_o of_o which_o place_n fulke_n be_v enforce_v to_o say_v augustine_n conclude_v very_o clear_o 110._o clear_o consut_fw-la of_o purg._n pag._n 110._o that_o some_o suffer_v temporal_a pain_n after_o this_o life_n this_o may_v not_o be_v deny_v and_o in_o another_o place_n s._n augustine_n say_v we_o ought_v not_o 34._o not_o de_fw-fr verbis_fw-la apost_n serm_n 34._o to_o doubt_v but_o that_o the_o dead_a be_v holpen_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o holy_a church_n and_o by_o the_o wholesome_a sacrifice_n and_o by_o ailrne_n give_v for_o their_o soul_n that_o our_o lord_n will_v avale_fw-mi with_o they_o more_o merciful_o than_o their_o sin_n have_v deserve_v for_o the_o whole_a church_n observe_v this_o as_o deliver_v from_o our_o father_n neither_o can_v you_o avoid_v these_o authority_n by_o fly_v to_o the_o request_n of_o god_n mercy_n that_o they_o may_v have_v their_o 39_o their_o pag._n 39_o serfect_a consummation_n in_o body_n and_o soul_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o god_n at_o the_o last_o judgement_n as_o you_o speak_v for_o beside_o that_o all_o they_o who_o depart_v this_o life_n in_o god_n favour_n be_v most_o assure_v of_o a_o perfect_a consummation_n independant_o of_o our_o almsdeed_n prayer_n &c._n &c._n s._n augustine_n as_o you_o have_v hear_v speak_v of_o a_o purge_v fire_n of_o temporal_a punlishment_n after_o this_o life_n etc._n etc._n and_o do_v elsewhere_o write_v as_o if_o he_o have_v purposely_o intend_v to_o prevent_v this_o your_o evasion_n say_v at_o the_o altar_n joan._n altar_n tract_n 84._o in_o joan._n we_o do_v not_o remember_v martyr_n as_o we_o do_v other_o decease_a who_o rest_n in_o peace_n by_o pray_v for_o they_o but_o rather_o that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o us._n which_o difference_n between_o martyr_n and_o other_o
decease_a can_v stand_v with_o your_o mere_a commemoration_n of_o thanksgiving_n or_o your_o request_n for_o a_o perfect_a consummation_n both_o which_o according_a to_o your_o doctrine_n concern_v martyr_n no_o less_o than_o other_o the_o same_o difference_n be_v express_v by_o s._n cyprian_n say_v it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o be_v purge_v 52._o purge_v lib._n 4._o ep_n 2._o alias_o epist_n 52._o after_o long_a torment_n for_o one_o sin_n and_o to_o be_v long_o cleanse_v with_o the_o fire_n and_o another_o thing_n to_o have_v wipe_v away_o all_o the_o sin_n by_o suffer_v s._n hierome_n say_v if_o origen_n affirm_v that_o pelagianos_fw-la that_o lib._n 1._o cont_n pelagianos_fw-la all_o creature_n endue_v with_o reason_n be_v not_o to_o be_v lose_v and_o grant_v repentance_n to_o the_o devil_n what_o belong_v that_o to_o we_o who_o affirm_v that_o the_o devil_n and_o all_o his_o officer_n and_o all_o sinful_a and_o wicked_a man_n do_v eternal_o perish_v and_o that_o christian_n if_o they_o be_v take_v away_o in_o sin_n be_v to_o be_v save_v after_o punishment_n more_o father_n may_v be_v see_v in_o bellarmine_n and_o other_o catholic_a writer_n these_o may_v suffice_v to_o show_v what_o be_v that_o belief_n &_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n which_o aërius_n oppose_v in_o his_o time_n as_o you_o do_v at_o this_o day_n 15._o last_o your_o own_o brethren_n bear_v witness_v thus_o against_o you_o caluin_n say_v more_o than_o a_o thousand_o three_o hundred_o â—â—_o hundred_o instit._fw-la l._n 3._o c._n 5._o sect._n â—â—_o year_n ago_o it_o be_v a_o custom_n to_o pray_v for_o the_o dead_a but_o i_o confess_v they_o be_v all_o drive_v into_o error_n bucer_n his_o word_n be_v because_o 12._o because_o in_o his_o enarrat_fw-la in_o sacra_fw-la quatuor_fw-la euang._n print_v basil_n 1536._o in_o matt._n â—_o 12._o almost_o from_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o church_n prayer_n and_o almsdeed_n be_v offer_v for_o the_o dead_a that_o opinion_n which_o s._n augustine_n set_v down_o in_o his_o enchiridio_fw-la cap._n 110._o creep_v in_o by_o little_a &_o little_a neither_o ought_v we_o to_o deny_v that_o soul_n be_v release_v by_o the_o piety_n of_o their_o live_a friend_n when_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o our_o mediator_n be_v offer_v for_o they_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o that_o from_o hence_o arise_v that_o duty_n of_o pray_v and_o offer_v sacrifice_n for_o they_o fulke_n speak_v plain_o aërius_n teach_v that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a 44._o dead_a in_o his_o answer_n to_o a_o counterfeit_v cath._n pag._n 44._o be_v unprofitable_a as_o witness_v both_o epiphanius_n and_o augustine_n which_o they_o count_v for_o a_o error_n he_o likewise_o acknowledge_v that_o ambrose_n chrysostome_n &_o augustine_n allow_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a that_o tertullian_n augustine_n cyprian_n hierome_n and_o a_o great_a many_o more_o do_v witness_n that_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a be_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o that_o fulke_n understand_v these_o father_n in_o the_o sense_n of_o satisfy_v for_o temporal_a pain_n after_o this_o life_n i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o deny_v for_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o what_o we_o say_v out_o of_o he_o above_o nay_o even_o in_o the_o communion_n book_n allow_v and_o establish_v by_o act_n of_o parliament_n in_o the_o second_o year_n of_o edward_n the_o six_o and_o print_v in_o london_n by_o edward_n whitchurch_n anno_fw-la â—549_n there_o be_v prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a and_o in_o the_o year_n 1547._o the_o first_o year_n of_o edward_n the_o six_o his_o reign_n stow_n recount_v that_o on_o the_o 19_o of_o june_n a_o dirige_fw-la be_v sing_v in_o every_o parish_n church_n in_o london_n for_o the_o french_a king_n late_o decease_v and_o a_o dirige_fw-la be_v also_o sing_v in_o the_o church_n of_o s._n paul_n in_o the_o same_o city_n &_o on_o the_o next_o morrow_n the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n assist_v of_o eight_o bishop_n all_o in_o rich_a mitre_n &_o other_o their_o pontifical_n do_v sing_v a_o mass_n of_o requiem_n and_o to_o say_v this_o by_o the_o way_n there_o be_v in_o the_o same_o communion_n book_n offer_v up_o of_o our_o prayer_n by_o angel_n as_o likewise_o in_o the_o first_o year_n of_o that_o king_n reign_n communion_n in_o one_o kind_a in_o time_n of_o necessity_n be_v approve_v as_o also_o in_o the_o collection_n in_o english_a of_o statute_n etc._n etc._n the_o reason_n hereof_o be_v add_v because_o at_o that_o time_n the_o opinion_n of_o the_o real_a presence_n as_o the_o collector_n say_v be_v not_o remove_v from_o us._n which_o ingenuous_a confession_n suppose_v that_o communion_n in_o one_o kind_n can_v be_v disallow_v if_o we_o believe_v the_o real_a presence_n because_o indeed_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n be_v both_o under_o the_o species_n of_o bread_n and_o under_o the_o species_n of_o wine_n 16._o you_o say_v the_o ancient_a church_n 37._o church_n pag._n 37._o in_o her_o liturgy_n remember_v all_o those_o that_o sleep_v in_o hope_n of_o the_o resurrection_n of_o ever_o last_a life_n and_o particular_o the_o patriarch_n prophet_n apostle_n etc._n etc._n beseech_v god_n to_o give_v unto_o they_o rest_n and_o to_o bring_v they_o at_o the_o resurrection_n as_o you_o add_v to_o the_o place_n where_o the_o light_n of_o his_o countenance_n shall_v shine_v upon_o they_o for_o evermore_o 17._o but_o read_v 9_o read_v de_fw-fr purg._n lib._n 1._o cap._n 9_o bellarmine_n and_o you_o shall_v find_v a_o far_o different_a thing_n in_o the_o greek_a liturgy_n of_o which_o s._n epiphanius_n make_v mention_v who_o you_o also_o cite_v in_o your_o margin_n we_o offer_v sacrifice_n to_o thou_o o_o lord_n for_o all_o the_o patriarch_n apostle_n martyr_n and_o especial_o for_o the_o most_o bless_a mother_n of_o god_n and_o that_o the_o sacrifice_n be_v offer_v for_o those_o saint_n only_o in_o thanksgiving_a the_o word_n follow_v do_v show_v by_o who_o prayer_n o_o god_n look_v upon_o us._n but_o for_o other_o faithful_a decease_a the_o speech_n be_v alter_v thus_o and_o be_v mindful_a of_o all_o the_o faithful_a decease_a who_o have_v sleep_v in_o hope_n of_o the_o resurrection_n and_o grant_v they_o to_o rest_v where_o the_o light_n of_o thy_o countenance_n be_v see_v which_o last_o word_n you_o untrue_o apply_v to_o patriarch_n etc._n etc._n and_o add_v at_o the_o resurrection_n whereas_o they_o be_v refer_v only_o to_o other_o faithful_a people_n for_o who_o sacrifice_n be_v offer_v that_o they_o may_v come_v to_o see_v the_o light_n of_o god_n countenance_n even_o before_o the_o resurrection_n that_o be_v as_o soon_o as_o they_o have_v satisfy_v for_o their_o sin_n and_o now_o how_o many_o way_n be_v the_o greek_a liturgy_n repugnant_a to_o you_o it_o speak_v of_o sacrifice_n which_o you_o turn_v to_o remembrance_n it_o speak_v of_o some_o person_n who_o we_o entreat_v to_o pray_v for_o we_o &_o other_o for_o who_o we_o pray_v it_o teach_v prayer_n to_o saint_n it_o teach_v that_o saint_n do_v already_o enjoy_v the_o beatifical_a vision_n and_o therefore_o that_o sacrifice_n only_o of_o thanksgiving_a be_v offer_v for_o they_o and_o as_o for_o the_o latter_a schismatical_a and_o heretical_a crecian_o although_o their_o authority_n weigh_v not_o much_o yet_o even_o they_o profess_v in_o the_o council_n of_o florence_n that_o they_o believe_v a_o purgatory_n &_o only_o deny_v that_o the_o soul_n be_v there_o torment_v by_o fire_n teach_v nevertheless_o that_o it_o be_v a_o dark_a place_n and_o full_a of_o pain_n and_o your_o own_o 11._o own_o with_fw-mi apol_n prot._n tract_n 1._o sect._n 7._o subd_v 12._o at_o 11._o brethren_n spark_n osiander_n and_o crispinus_n affirm_v that_o about_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a they_o conform_v themselves_o to_o rome_n and_o sr._n edwin_n etc._n edwin_n in_o his_o relation_n etc._n etc._n sands_n say_v that_o the_o greek_a church_n do_v concur_v with_o rome_n in_o the_o opinion_n of_o transubstantiation_n in_o pray_v to_o saint_n in_o offer_v sacrifice_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a purgatory_n etc._n etc._n and_o a_o treatise_n publish_v by_o the_o protestant_a divine_n of_o wittemberge_n anno_fw-la 1584._o entitle_v acta_fw-la theologorum_fw-la wittembergensium_fw-la etc._n etc._n affirm_v that_o the_o greek_a church_n at_o this_o day_n believe_v invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o prayer_n for_o the_o dead_a as_o heretofore_o i_o note_v all_o which_o consider_v with_o what_o modesty_n can_v you_o say_v the_o general_a opinion_n of_o 36._o of_o pag._n 36._o the_o ancient_a doctor_n greeke_n and_o latin_a down_o almost_o to_o these_o last_o age_n be_v and_o be_v the_o opinion_n of_o the_o greek_a church_n at_o this_o day_n that_o all_o the_o spirit_n of_o the_o righteous_a decease_a be_v in_o abraham_n bosom_n or_o in_o some_o outward_a court_n of_o heaven_n etc._n etc._n and_o to_o mend_v the_o matter_n you_o
you_o can_v possible_o be_v save_v but_o we_o have_v no_o such_o dependence_n upon_o you_o nay_o the_o same_o confession_n which_o acquit_v we_o condemn_v yourselves_o for_o while_o you_o confess_v a_o reformation_n of_o the_o old_a church_n and_o neither_o do_v nor_o can_v specify_v any_o visible_a church_n which_o in_o your_o opinion_n need_v no_o reformation_n you_o must_v affirm_v that_o the_o church_n which_o you_o intend_v to_o reform_v be_v indeed_o the_o visible_a catholic_a church_n if_o so_o than_o you_o can_v deny_v but_o that_o you_o depart_v from_o the_o catholic_a church_n &_o be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n yea_o and_o of_o heresy_n for_o if_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v infect_v with_o erroneous_a doctrine_n which_o need_v reformation_n it_o follow_v that_o the_o error_n be_v universal_a and_o that_o the_o reformation_n conm_v after_o those_o error_n must_v want_v universality_n of_o place_n and_o time_n and_o therefore_o be_v brand_v with_o the_o mark_n of_o heresy_n for_o in_o true_a divinity_n a_o new_a and_o no_o church_n be_v all_o one_o moreover_o the_o very_a nature_n &_o essence_n of_o the_o church_n require_v true_a faith_n it_o be_v impossible_a to_o alter_v any_o least_o point_n of_o faith_n without_o change_v the_o substance_n of_o the_o church_n and_o religion_n and_o therefore_o to_o reform_v the_o church_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n be_v as_o if_o you_o shall_v reform_v a_o man_n by_o deprive_v he_o of_o a_o reasonable_a soul_n whereby_o he_o be_v a_o man_n and_o a_o reform_a catholic_n be_v term_n no_o less_o repugnant_a than_o a_o reasonable_a unreasonable_a creature_n or_o a_o destroy_v exist_v thing_n wherefore_o to_o say_v the_o reformation_n do_v not_o change_v the_o substance_n of_o religion_n but_o only_o cleanse_v it_o from_o corrupt_a and_o impure_a quality_n be_v mere_a word_n to_o deceive_v simple_a soul_n and_o it_o be_v a_o lamentable_a case_n that_o you_o can_v never_o be_v bring_v from_o such_o ridiculous_a similitude_n as_o here_o you_o bring_v of_o naaman_n who_o be_v still_o the_o same_o man_n before_o and_o after_o he_o be_v cure_v of_o his_o leprosy_n of_o a_o field_n overgrow_v with_o weed_n thistle_n &c._n &c._n and_o your_o brethren_n be_v full_a of_o twenty_o such_o childish_a pretend_a illustration_n whereas_o every_o body_n know_v that_o leprosy_n be_v accidental_a to_o a_o man_n and_o weed_n to_o a_o field_n but_o faith_n be_v essential_a to_o the_o church_n and_o that_o affirmation_n or_o negation_n of_o any_o one_o reveal_v truth_n whatsoever_o be_v difference_n no_o less_o essential_a in_o faith_n then_o reasonable_a and_o unreasonable_a in_o live_a creature_n and_o faith_n itself_o be_v a_o accident_n and_o quality_n consist_v in_o affirmation_n or_o negation_n to_o cleanse_v it_o from_o the_o corrupt_a and_o impure_a quality_n of_o affirm_v or_o deny_v be_v to_o cleanse_v it_o from_o its_o own_o nature_n and_o essence_n which_o be_v not_o to_o reform_v but_o to_o destroy_v it_o last_o from_o this_o your_o force_a confession_n not_o to_o erect_v a_o new_a church_n but_o to_o purge_v the_o old_a we_o must_v infer_v that_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o you_o seek_v to_o purge_v be_v the_o old_a church_n and_o the_o catholic_a church_n of_o christ_n for_o if_o you_o find_v any_o other_o old_a visible_a catholic_a church_n which_o need_v no_o reformation_n than_o you_o neither_o intend_v to_o erect_v a_o new_a church_n nor_o to_o purge_v the_o old_a 2._o you_o say_v the_o thing_n which_o protestant_n 61._o protestant_n pag._n 61._o believe_v on_o their_o part_n and_o wherein_o they_o judge_v the_o life_n and_o substance_n of_o religion_n to_o be_v comprise_v be_v most_o if_o not_o all_o of_o they_o so_o evident_o and_o indisputable_o true_a that_o their_o adversary_n themselves_o do_v avow_v and_o receive_v they_o as_o well_o as_o they_o if_o this_o be_v true_a and_o that_o the_o say_v verity_n make_v up_o the_o faith_n of_o protestant_n as_o you_o speak_v than_o what_o need_v you_o a_o reformation_n to_o teach_v man_n the_o faith_n of_o protestant_n which_o they_o believe_v before_o protestant_n appear_v or_o how_o can_v you_o be_v excuse_v from_o schism_n who_o divide_v yourselves_o from_o that_o visible_a church_n which_o believe_v those_o verity_n which_o make_v up_o your_o faith_n you_o say_v if_o all_o other_o christian_n can_v be_v content_n 61.62_o content_n pag._n 61.62_o to_o keep_v within_o these_o general_a bound_n the_o woeful_a schism_n and_o rupture_n of_o christendom_n may_v be_v more_o easy_o heal_v o_o word_n most_o powerful_a to_o condemn_v yourselves_o who_o be_v not_o content_a to_o keep_v within_o those_o general_a bound_n which_o you_o confess_v we_o believe_v but_o will_v attempt_v new_a reformation_n although_o with_o so_o woeful_a schism_n and_o rupture_n of_o christendom_n as_o you_o hold_v worthy_a to_o be_v lament_v with_o tear_n of_o blood_n if_o our_o error_n be_v not_o fundamental_a your_o reformation_n can_v not_o be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n as_o when_o the_o wound_n or_o disease_n be_v know_v not_o to_o be_v deadly_a the_o cure_n can_v be_v necessary_a to_o the_o conservation_n of_o life_n 3._o the_o reformation_n which_o zealous_a catholic_n do_v desire_v and_o with_o who_o word_n you_o vain_o load_v your_o margin_n be_v not_o in_o faith_n but_o manner_n for_o which_o if_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o forsake_v a_o church_n no_o church_n shall_v remain_v unforsaken_a but_o of_o this_o i_o have_v speak_v in_o the_o first_o part._n luther_n be_v just_o cut_v of_o by_o excommunication_n as_o a_o pernicious_a member_n which_o yet_o be_v not_o do_v till_o the_o pope_n have_v use_v all_o mean_n to_o reclaim_v he_o provincial_a or_o nationall_n synod_n may_v seek_v to_o reform_v abuse_n in_o manner_n and_o endeavour_v that_o the_o faith_n already_o establish_v be_v conserve_v but_o if_o they_o go_v about_o to_o reform_v the_o catholic_a church_n in_o any_o one_o point_n they_o deserve_v the_o name_n of_o conventicle_n and_o not_o of_o counsel_n 4._o what_o mean_v you_o when_o you_o say_v that_o you_o leave_v the_o 67._o the_o pag._n 67._o church_n of_o rome_n in_o nothing_o she_o hold_v of_o christ_n or_o of_o apostolic_a tradition_n do_v you_o admit_v tradition_n be_v they_o fallible_a or_o infallible_a for_o if_o they_o be_v infallible_a then_o may_v they_o be_v part_n of_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n if_o fallible_a they_o be_v not_o apostolic_a 5._o you_o go_v then_o about_o to_o prove_v that_o our_o doctrine_n be_v first_o doubtful_a and_o perplex_a opinion_n 2._o doctrine_n unnecessary_a and_o foreign_a to_o the_o faith_n and_o 3._o novelty_n unknown_a to_o antiquity_n 6._o you_o pretend_v they_o be_v doubtful_a and_o say_v the_o roman_a doctor_n do_v not_o full_o and_o absolute_o agree_v in_o any_o one_o point_n among_o themselves_o but_o only_o in_o such_o point_n wherein_o they_o agree_v with_o us._n if_o a_o manifest_a untruth_n be_v a_o good_a proof_n your_o argument_n convince_v if_o you_o think_v that_o disagreement_n in_o matter_n not_o define_v by_o the_o church_n argue_v difference_n in_o matter_n of_o faith_n you_o show_v small_a read_n in_o our_o divines_n who_o even_o in_o all_o those_o article_n wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o have_v many_o different_a and_o contrary_a opinion_n concern_v point_n not_o define_v as_o about_o some_o speculative_a question_n concern_v the_o deity_n the_o bless_a trinity_n incarnation_n yea_o there_o be_v more_o dispute_n about_o those_o high_a mystery_n wherein_o you_o agree_v with_o we_o then_o in_o other_o wherein_o we_o disagree_v and_o yet_o you_o grant_v that_o such_o dispute_n do_v not_o argue_v those_o main_a point_n to_o be_v doubtful_a and_o so_o you_o must_v answer_v your_o own_o instance_n by_o which_o you_o may_v as_o well_o prove_v that_o philosopher_n do_v not_o agree_v whether_o there_o be_v such_o thing_n as_o time_n motion_n quantity_n heaven_n element_n etc._n etc._n because_o in_o many_o particular_n concern_v those_o thing_n they_o can_v agree_v 7._o in_o the_o second_o place_n you_o affirm_v our_o doctrine_n to_o be_v unnecessary_a and_o superfluous_a because_o a_o very_a small_a measure_n of_o explicit_a knowledge_n be_v of_o absolute_a necessity_n but_o this_o be_v very_o clear_o nothing_o at_o all_o to_o the_o purpose_n for_o our_o question_n be_v not_o what_o every_o one_o be_v oblige_v explicit_o to_o believe_v but_o whether_o every_o one_o be_v not_o oblige_v not_o to_o disbelieve_v or_o deny_v any_o one_o point_n sufficient_o propound_v by_o the_o church_n as_o a_o divine_a truth_n neither_o do_v we_o treat_v of_o ignorance_n of_o some_o point_n but_o of_o plain_a opposition_n and_o contradiction_n both_o between_o you_o and_o we_o and_o also_o among_o your_o self_n you_o cite_v bellarmine_n say_v the_o apostle_n never_o use_v 11._o use_v de_fw-fr verb._n dei_fw-la lib._n 4._o cap._n 11._o to_o preach_v open_o
to_o the_o people_n other_o thing_n than_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o ten_o commaundment_n and_o some_o of_o the_o sacrament_n because_o these_o be_v simple_o necessary_a and_o profitable_a for_o all_o man_n the_o rest_n beside_o such_o as_o a_o man_n may_v be_v save_v without_o they_o here_o you_o stop_v leave_v out_o the_o word_n immediate_o follow_v which_o be_v direct_o against_o you_o so_o that_o say_v bellarmine_n he_o have_v ibid._n have_v ibid._n a_o will_n ready_a to_o embrace_v and_o believe_v they_o whensoever_o they_o shall_v be_v sufficient_o propound_v to_o he_o by_o the_o church_n beside_o you_o falsify_v bellarmine_n when_o you_o make_v he_o say_v that_o the_o apostle_n never_o use_v to_o preach_v to_o the_o people_n other_o thing_n than_o the_o article_n of_o the_o apostle_n creed_n the_o commandment_n and_o some_o of_o the_o sacrament_n because_o these_o be_v simple_o necessary_a and_o profitable_a for_o all_o man_n but_o he_o say_v direct_o the_o contrary_a namely_o that_o the_o apostle_n preach_v to_o all_o some_o thing_n which_o be_v not_o necessary_a but_o only_o profitable_a to_o all_o and_o therefore_o not_o superfluous_a as_o you_o say_v whereas_o yet_o he_o express_o affirm_v the_o knowledge_n of_o the_o creed_n commandment_n and_o some_o sacrament_n to_o be_v necessary_a to_o all_o i_o wonder_v what_o pleasure_n you_o can_v take_v in_o corrupt_a author_n to_o your_o own_o discredit_n now_o since_o we_o must_v have_v as_o bellarmine_n right_o teach_v a_o will_n ready_a to_o embrace_v whatsoever_o be_v propound_v by_o the_o church_n it_o follow_v that_o notwithstanding_o your_o confidence_n to_o the_o contrary_a we_o can_v but_o except_v against_o your_o public_a service_n or_o liturgy_n i_o have_v neither_o will_n nor_o leisure_n to_o examine_v particular_n but_o exception_n enough_o offer_v themselves_o to_o any_o man_n first_o consideration_n the_o very_a occasion_n and_o end_n for_o which_o it_o be_v frame_v proceed_v out_o of_o a_o heretical_a spirit_n to_o oppose_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n it_o be_v turn_v into_o english_a upon_o a_o heretical_a persuasion_n and_o a_o popular_a insinuation_n and_o a_o crafty_a affectation_n to_o inveigle_v the_o humour_n of_o the_o people_n that_o public_a prayer_n be_v unlawful_a in_o a_o unknown_a tongue_n it_o leave_v out_o prayer_n both_o for_o decease_a sinner_n and_o to_o glorious_a saint_n blot_v diverse_a of_o they_o out_o of_o their_o calendar_n and_o have_v abrogate_a their_o festival_n day_n and_o the_o like_a they_o have_v do_v concern_v fast_n except_o those_o few_o which_o they_o vouchsafe_v to_o like_v it_o abolish_v all_o memory_n of_o s._n peter_n successor_n it_o treat_v only_o of_o two_o sacrament_n exclude_v the_o rest_n and_o in_o the_o one_o it_o omit_v most_o of_o our_o ceremony_n as_o superstitious_a in_o the_o other_o it_o profess_v not_o to_o give_v any_o thing_n but_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n it_o administer_v to_o lay_v people_n both_o kind_n as_o necessary_a by_o the_o institution_n of_o christ_n our_o lord_n mass_n or_o sacrifice_v it_o have_v none_o it_o read_v and_o believe_v scripture_n heretical_o translate_v it_o mention_v no_o relic_n of_o saint_n and_o in_o a_o word_n it_o be_v both_o in_o the_o whole_a body_n and_o design_n and_o in_o every_o point_n a_o profession_n of_o a_o church_n and_o faith_n contrary_a to_o catholic_n and_o imply_v a_o condemnation_n of_o our_o liturgy_n as_o superstitious_a &_o yourself_o bold_o say_v we_o can_v we_o 68_o we_o pag._n 68_o dare_v not_o communicate_v with_o rome_n in_o her_o public_a liturgy_n which_o be_v manifest_o pollute_v with_o gross_a superstition_n and_o therefore_o wee_a catholic_n also_o can_v no_o more_o approve_v your_o practice_n and_o liturgy_n than_o we_o can_v embrace_v your_o doctrine_n and_o faith_n i_o say_v that_o i_o have_v no_o desire_n to_o examine_v the_o particular_n of_o your_o liturgy_n neither_o be_v it_o needful_a for_o we_o may_v judge_v of_o the_o rest_n by_o the_o very_a first_o word_n or_o introite_fw-la of_o your_o service_n begin_v with_o a_o text_n for_o which_o you_o cite_v ezech._n 18._o at_o what_o time_n soever_o a_o sinner_n do_v repent_v he_o of_o his_o sin_n from_o the_o bottom_n of_o his_o heart_n i_o will_v put_v all_o his_o wickedness_n out_o of_o my_o remembrance_n say_v the_o lord_n but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o sentence_n in_o ezechiel_n who_o word_n be_v these_o even_o in_o the_o bible_n of_o the_o protestant_n but_o if_o the_o wicked_a will_v turn_v from_o all_o his_o sin_n which_o he_o have_v commit_v and_o keep_v all_o my_o statute_n and_o do_v that_o which_o be_v lawful_a and_o right_a he_o shall_v sure_o live_v he_o shall_v not_o die_v all_o his_o transgression_n which_o he_o have_v commit_v they_o shall_v not_o be_v mention_v unto_o he_o in_o the_o righteousness_n which_o he_o have_v do_v he_o shall_v live_v your_o first_o reformer_n the_o soul_n of_o who_o church_n be_v solifidian_n justification_n be_v loath_a to_o hear_v of_o possibility_n to_o keep_v all_o the_o commandment_n of_o work_a righteousness_n or_o live_v in_o the_o righteousness_n which_o he_o have_v wrought_v as_o also_o they_o be_v unwilling_a to_o particularize_v with_o the_o prophet_n what_o be_v require_v to_o true_a repentance_n know_v full_a well_o the_o different_a opinion_n of_o their_o first_o progenitor_n about_o this_o point_n of_o repentance_n and_o therefore_o they_o think_v best_a to_o corrupt_v this_o text._n and_o which_o be_v more_o strange_a in_o your_o seruice-booke_n translate_v into_o latin_a and_o print_v in_o london_n per_fw-la assignationem_fw-la francisci_fw-la florae_n the_o sentence_n be_v cite_v at_o large_a as_o it_o be_v in_o the_o prophet_n and_o therefore_o the_o corruption_n still_o remain_v in_o the_o english_a to_o deceive_v the_o unlearned_a be_v more_o inexcusable_a neither_o in_o the_o same_o introite_fw-la be_v the_o allegation_n of_o joel._n 2._o much_o more_o true_o make_v rend_v your_o heart_n &_o not_o your_o garment_n and_o turn_v to_o the_o lord_n your_o god_n etc._n etc._n out_o of_o which_o place_n you_o know_v man_n be_v wont_a to_o declaim_v against_o our_o corporal_a penance_n of_o fast_v watch_a hayre-cloth_n discipline_n etc._n etc._n but_o even_o according_a to_o your_o own_o translation_n the_o word_n be_v turn_v you_o even_o to_o i_o with_o all_o your_o heart_n and_o with_o fast_v and_o with_o weep_v and_o with_o mourning_n and_o rend_v your_o heart_n and_o not_o your_o garment_n etc._n etc._n where_o i_o believe_v you_o will_v confess_v that_o your_o omission_n be_v not_o use_v to_o no_o purpose_n 8._o you_o speak_v among_o other_o thing_n of_o image_n &_o we_o grant_v that_o god_n may_v be_v worship_v without_o a_o image_n but_o we_o say_v that_o he_o can_v be_v true_o worship_v by_o any_o one_o who_o deni_v worship_n of_o image_n because_o true_a worship_n of_o god_n can_v stand_v with_o any_o one_o heresy_n it_o be_v high_o good_a &_o lawful_a and_o a_o most_o holy_a thing_n to_o pray_v to_o god_n but_o yet_o if_o one_o shall_v believe_v that_o we_o may_v not_o also_o pray_v to_o live_a man_n yourself_o will_v i_o think_v condemn_v he_o for_o a_o heretic_n because_o all_o christian_n entreat_v their_o brethren_n to_o pray_v for_o they_o by_o which_o example_n all_o your_o instance_n pag._n 72._o may_v be_v answer_v your_o say_n out_o of_o bellarminine_n that_o the_o worship_n and_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v bring_v into_o the_o church_n rather_o by_o custom_n then_o any_o precept_n be_v answer_v hereafter_o n._n 12._o and_o i_o will_v glad_o know_v by_o what_o authority_n your_o church_n can_v enjoin_v secret_a confession_n in_o some_o case_n as_o here_o pag._n 72._o you_o say_v she_o do_v if_o christ_n have_v leave_v it_o free_a can_v a_o humane_a law_n oblige_v man_n to_o reveal_v their_o secret_a sin_n in_o confession_n especial_o since_o they_o know_v not_o whether_o your_o minister_n will_v not_o think_v themselves_o oblige_v to_o acquaint_v some_o officer_n therewith_o in_o case_n the_o penitent_n disclose_v any_o crime_n punishable_a by_o the_o law_n of_o the_o realm_n to_o which_o propose_v i_o can_v tell_v you_o strange_a and_o true_a story_n as_o contrary_o because_o catholic_n believe_v the_o sacrament_n of_o confession_n to_o have_v be_v institute_v by_o our_o saviour_n christ_n as_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n they_o consequent_o teach_v that_o the_o seal_n and_o secret_n thereof_o be_v so_o sacred_a and_o inviolable_a that_o the_o pope_n himself_o can_v dispense_v therein_o though_o it_o be_v to_o save_v his_o own_o life_n and_o now_o to_o follow_v your_o wander_n you_o may_v know_v that_o we_o do_v not_o hinder_v but_o give_v free_a leave_n to_o unlearned_a person_n to_o say_v their_o prayer_n in_o a_o know_a language_n but_o the_o church_n do_v celebrate_v public_a service_n