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ground_n faith_n scripture_n word_n 6,782 5 5.1236 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A81917 An epistolary discourse wherein (amongst other particulars) these following questions are briefly resolved. I. Whether or no the state should tolerate the independent Government? II.If they should tolerate it, how farre, and with what limitations? III. If they should tolerate it, what course should be taken to bring them to a conformity with the Presbyterials? Written by Mr. John Dury. To Mr. Tho. Goodwin. Mr. Philip Nye. Mr. Samuel Hartlib. Published by a friend, for more common use. Dury, John, 1596-1680. 1644 (1644) Wing D2859; Thomason E6_14; ESTC R11327 31,647 43

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i_o come_v to_o the_o three_o question_n wherein_o the_o remedy_n of_o the_o breach_n betwixt_o they_o and_o their_o brethren_n be_v to_o be_v think_v upon_o in_o case_n the_o state_n shall_v not_o yield_v unto_o that_o toleration_n which_o they_o do_v require_v in_o this_o case_n two_o thing_n must_v be_v suppose_v first_o that_o the_o state_n will_v find_v no_o such_o satisfaction_n in_o their_o way_n as_o to_o think_v indifferent_o of_o it_o second_o that_o they_o of_o the_o non-communion_n can_v find_v as_o little_a satisfaction_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n for_o if_o either_o of_o these_o be_v they_o will_v either_o get_v a_o toleration_n or_o need_v none_o the_o way_n must_v be_v then_o either_o to_o give_v satisfaction_n to_o their_o brethren_n or_o to_o receive_v it_o from_o they_o i_o will_v advise_v then_o that_o they_o shall_v labour_v to_o beget_v a_o good_a understanding_n betwixt_o they_o and_o their_o brethren_n for_o if_o their_o difference_n do_v arise_v from_o a_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n the_o state_n be_v no_o competent_a judge_n thereof_o but_o it_o shall_v be_v bring_v unto_o the_o tribunal_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o judge_v by_o his_o clear_a word_n among_o those_o that_o be_v officer_n in_o his_o kingdom_n and_o if_o it_o be_v no_o scruple_n of_o conscience_n than_o i_o see_v not_o why_o they_o shall_v stand_v so_o much_o upon_o it_o why_o the_o conscience_n of_o the_o state_n shall_v be_v trouble_v with_o it_o why_o the_o church_n keep_v in_o so_o dangerous_a uncertainty_n for_o it_o i_o suppose_v then_o that_o it_o be_v a_o scrupulositie_n of_o conscience_n rather_o than_o any_o worldly_a consideration_n which_o keep_v they_o at_o a_o distance_n from_o their_o brethren_n and_o if_o it_o be_v so_o the_o near_a way_n to_o receive_v satisfaction_n therein_o be_v to_o deal_v with_o man_n that_o make_v no_o less_o conscience_n of_o their_o way_n than_o they_o do_v who_o conscience_n be_v rule_v by_o the_o same_o principle_n 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godliness_n may_v be_v declare_v from_o the_o clear_a word_n of_o scripture_n which_o may_v be_v make_v a_o fundamental_a confession_n of_o faith_n as_o i_o have_v elsewhere_o in_o a_o epistle_n to_o the_o lord_n forbes_n advise_v and_o to_o this_o ground_n of_o all_o fundamental_n in_o christianity_n all_o the_o point_n of_o necessary_a doctrine_n and_o of_o duty_n of_o practice_n which_o be_v no_o less_o fundamental_a in_o the_o profession_n of_o christianity_n then_o the_o knowledge_n of_o truth_n wherein_o they_o also_o full_o agree_v may_v be_v refer_v for_o it_o be_v clear_a that_o all_o which_o we_o either_o need_v to_o know_v or_o do_v be_v only_o needful_a for_o this_o end_n to_o enable_v we_o to_o walk_v faithful_o and_o upright_o with_o god_n according_a to_o the_o tenor_n of_o his_o covenant_n make_v with_o we_o in_o christ_n this_o declaration_n be_v agree_v upon_o they_o shall_v acknowledge_v themselves_o therein_o and_o thereby_o brethren_n in_o christ_n and_o son_n of_o the_o same_o heavenly_a father_n servants_z of_o the_o same_o master_n set_v in_o his_o house_n and_o over_o his_o household_n to_o bring_v all_o man_n by_o their_o ministry_n through_o the_o tenor_n of_o that_o covenant_n unto_o he_o here_o than_o they_o shall_v take_v into_o consideration_n the_o duty_n of_o their_o ministry_n to_o agree_v upon_o that_o which_o they_o shall_v do_v in_o it_o for_o mutual_a and_o for_o public_a edification_n for_o see_v they_o take_v themselves_o to_o be_v servant_n of_o the_o same_o master_n send_v forth_o by_o he_o in_o the_o same_o commission_n to_o preach_v joint_o to_o the_o same_o people_n the_o same_o word_n i_o conceive_v that_o it_o will_v be_v no_o hard_a matter_n if_o they_o know_v their_o master_n will_v to_o agree_v upon_o the_o manner_n of_o do_v his_o work_n but_o to_o proceed_v orderly_o herein_o the_o first_o matter_n shall_v be_v concern_v the_o call_n of_o minister_n for_o you_o know_v that_o no_o man_n may_v take_v this_o honour_n unto_o himself_o but_o only_o he_o that_o be_v call_v by_o god_n unto_o it_o as_o aaron_z be_v heb._n 5.4_o therefore_o they_o shall_v determine_v from_o the_o word_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o church_n of_o all_o age_n what_o it_o be_v to_o be_v lawful_o call_v unto_o the_o ministry_n and_o what_o it_o be_v to_o be_v lawful_o call_v unto_o a_o particular_a congregation_n to_o exercise_v the_o ministry_n therein_o if_o they_o agree_v in_o this_o which_o i_o hope_v they_o will_v do_v by_o look_v to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n then_o their_o next_o care_n shall_v be_v to_o consider_v what_o rela●ion_n fellow-servant_n in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n shall_v have_v one_o to_o another_o and_o how_o they_o shall_v do_v to_o strengthen_v one_o another_o hand_n and_o to_o prevent_v the_o occasion_n of_o scandal_n and_o if_o they_o find_v that_o they_o ought_v as_o member_n or_o the_o same_o body_n to_o have_v the_o same_o care_n one_o for_o another_o and_o that_o to_o show_v this_o care_n to_o strengthen_v one_o another_o in_o their_o ministerial_a duty_n and_o to_o prevent_v scandal_n nothing_o be_v so_o necessary_a as_o to_o do_v all_o by_o mutual_a council_n and_o joint_a consent_n then_o they_o shall_v agree_v upon_o the_o form_n of_o such_o consultation_n and_o upon_o the_o authority_n which_o their_o decree_n ought_v to_o carry_v in_o matter_n of_o doubt_n wherein_o as_o i_o will_v have_v they_o who_o i_o call_v the_o non-communionists_a not_o to_o maintain_v any_o thing_n which_o may_v seem_v to_o exempt_v the_o spirit_n of_o prophet_n from_o be_v subject_n unto_o the_o prophet_n from_o whence_o confusion_n and_o trouble_n will_v inevitable_o arise_v in_o the_o church_n so_o i_o will_v not_o have_v the_o presbyterial_a brethren_n to_o press_v upon_o the_o other_o any_o obligation_n to_o make_v they_o subject_a unto_o such_o decree_n further_o than_o shall_v be_v necessary_a to_o make_v up_o breach_n and_o prevent_v scandalis_fw-la which_o otherwise_o will_v be_v unavoidable_a and_o this_o i_o make_v no_o doubt_n they_o will_v yield_v unto_o that_o the_o joint_a consent_n of_o many_o in_o a_o spiritual_a senate_n shall_v sway_v the_o spirit_n of_o one_o or_o of_o a_o few_o to_o submit_v itself_o in_o circumstantial_a matter_n which_o be_v not_o precise_o determine_v by_o the_o word_n but_o leave_v unto_o the_o general_a rule_n of_o christian_a discretion_n because_o the_o apostle_n say_v that_o the_o wisdom_n which_o be_v from_o above_o be_v peaceable_a gentle_a and_o easy_a to_o be_v entreat_v jam._n 3.17_o from_o whence_o it_o follow_v that_o such_o as_o be_v endue_v with_o this_o wisdom_n will_v easy_o be_v entreat_v and_o not selfe_o conceit_v but_o yield_v to_o the_o common_a advice_n of_o their_o brethren_n in_o matter_n
a_o epistolary_a discourse_n wherein_o among_o other_o particular_n these_o follow_a question_n be_v brief_o resolve_v i._o whether_o or_o no_o the_o state_n shall_v tolerate_v the_o independent_a government_n ii_o if_o they_o shall_v tolerate_v it_o how_o far_o and_o with_o what_o limitation_n iii_o if_o they_o shall_v not_o tolerate_v it_o what_o course_n shall_v be_v take_v to_o bring_v they_o to_o a_o conformity_n with_o the_o presbyterials_n write_a by_o mr._n john_n dury_n to_o mr._n tho._n goodwin_n mr._n philip_n nye_n mr._n samuel_n hartlib_n publish_a by_o a_o friend_n for_o more_o common_a use_n jul●_n 27._o 1644._o imprimatur_fw-la ja_fw-la cranford_n london_n print_v for_o charles_n greene_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v at_o his_o shop_n in_o lvie_n lane_n 1644._o the_o copy_n of_o letter_n to_o mr._n tho._n goodwin_n and_o mr._n philip_n nye_n worthy_a sir_n although_o i_o be_o not_o yet_o settle_v here_o nor_o can_v promise_v unto_o myself_o any_o leisure_n and_o freedom_n of_o spirit_n from_o other_o necessary_a thought_n which_o my_o present_a condition_n do_v oblige_v i_o unto_o and_o although_o i_o may_v imagine_v that_o there_o be_v little_a use_n as_o yet_o to_o be_v make_v among_o you_o of_o any_o thing_n that_o i_o can_v propose_v tend_v to_o moderation_n in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a by_o reason_n of_o the_o distract_a condition_n of_o the_o civil_a state_n nevertheless_o because_o i_o do_v promise_v you_o that_o i_o will_v put_v something_o to_o paper_n concern_v the_o scope_n of_o my_o negotiation_n and_o the_o argument_n which_o i_o have_v use_v to_o persuade_v man_n spirit_n unto_o mutual_a forbearance_n and_o because_o i_o know_v that_o if_o one_o will_v observe_v the_o wind_n very_o narrow_o he_o shall_v hardly_o ever_o sow_v his_o seed_n eccles_n 11.4_o or_o if_o he_o regard_v the_o cloud_n reap_v his_o corn_n therefore_o i_o will_v not_o delay_v any_o long_o the_o performance_n of_o that_o which_o i_o undertake_v which_o that_o i_o may_v do_v in_o some_o order_n i_o will_v branch_v out_o this_o discourse_n into_o these_o particular_n first_o i_o will_v relate_v unto_o you_o the_o true_a state_n of_o my_o negotiation_n with_o the_o lutheran_n to_o bring_v they_o to_o moderation_n towards_o we_o second_o i_o will_v set_v down_o the_o head_n of_o reason_n which_o induce_v i_o to_o this_o endeavour_n and_o which_o i_o use_v to_o persuade_v other_o to_o that_o duty_n which_o i_o have_v press_v upon_o they_o three_o i_o will_v let_v you_o know_v my_o opinion_n concern_v you_o case_n for_o which_o you_o desire_v to_o know_v these_o matter_n that_o you_o may_v understand_v how_o far_o i_o take_v it_o to_o be_v agree_v or_o disagree_v with_o that_o which_o hitherto_o i_o have_v agitate_a and_o what_o i_o will_v advise_v you_o to_o do_v in_o it_o for_o the_o advancement_n of_o christ_n kingdom_n and_o the_o public_a edification_n of_o your_o brethren_n the_o true_a state_n of_o my_o negotiation_n be_v this_o that_o i_o have_v endeavour_v to_o bring_v the_o lutheran_n to_o some_o orderly_a treaty_n with_o we_o and_o joint_a resolution_n among_o themselves_o concern_v the_o way_n of_o peace_n and_o unity_n in_o the_o public_a and_o private_a profession_n of_o christianity_n that_o the_o scandalous_a and_o unconscionable_a effect_n of_o our_o division_n be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o way_n some_o joint_a course_n may_v be_v se●led_v to_o set_v forward_o the_o reformation_n of_o protestant_a church_n unto_o that_o period_n whereunto_o it_o may_v by_o god_n assistance_n be_v bring_v to_o this_o effect_n have_v first_o deal_v with_o our_o own_o side_n and_o get_v their_o consent_n unto_o this_o aim_n i_o have_v offer_v myself_o also_o unto_o the_o rest_n as_o a_o solicitor_n of_o the_o counsel_n of_o peace_n and_o a_o servant_n of_o the_o communion_n of_o saint_n in_o this_o matter_n in_o this_o posture_n i_o have_v take_v the_o freedom_n to_o provoke_v all_o unto_o the_o duty_n of_o love_n and_o of_o good_a work_n either_o by_o propose_v or_o ask_v council_n of_o they_o or_o make_v motion_n tend_v to_o the_o composure_n of_o difference_n for_o have_v make_v my_o spirit_n void_a of_o partiality_n and_o lay_v aside_o all_o private_a aim_n i_o take_v up_o universal_a rule_n which_o i_o think_v app●●●●e_v unto_o all_o man_n understanding_n in_o theoreticis_fw-la and_o to_o their_o con●●●●●●es_n in_o practicis_fw-la that_o by_o this_o mean_v we_o may_v be_v bring_v to_o f●llow_n the_o apostle_n council_n unto_o the_o philippian_n chap._n 3.15.16_o which_o be_v that_o so_o far_o as_o we_o be_v come_v we_o shall_v mind_v the_o same_o thing_n and_o walk_v by_o the_o same_o rule_n as_o it_o become_v those_o that_o indeed_o be_v brethren_n in_o jesus_n christ_n for_o i_o do_v not_o aim_v so_o m●ch_o at_o a_o ●are_a toleration_n betwixt_o we_o and_o lutheran_n as_o at_o a_o pub_fw-la i●ue_fw-la profession_n of_o brotherhood_n whereupon_o i_o conceive_v a_o toleration_n will_v follow_v 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towards_o another_o but_o also_o involve_v other_o their_o hearer_n into_o the_o same_o breach_n of_o christian_a love_n from_o whence_o schism_n and_o separation_n at_o last_o arise_v and_o increase_v in_o the_o church_n although_o there_o be_v no_o just_a cause_n thereof_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o substantial_a and_o material_a point_n of_o faith_n and_o practice_n see_v i_o say_v we_o daily_o see_v that_o this_o do_v fall_v out_o and_o that_o this_o alone_a be_v able_a to_o breed_v many_o division_n among_o the_o learned_a notwithstanding_o all_o other_o tie_v of_o brotherly_a union_n and_o friendship_n betwixt_o they_o therefore_o i_o think_v it_o will_v be_v expedient_a if_o not_o necessary_a to_o find_v some_o remedy_n for_o this_o inconvenient_a which_o at_o last_o i_o suppose_v be_v find_v and_o if_o god_n will_v be_v please_v to_o enable_v i_o to_o propose_v it_o i_o hope_v it_o will_v prove_v effectual_a towards_o man_n that_o be_v not_o self-conceited_a but_o tractable_a 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