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ground_n	faith_n	scripture_n	word_n	6,782	5	5.1236	4	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A81917	An epistolary discourse wherein (amongst other particulars) these following questions are briefly resolved. I. Whether or no the state should tolerate the independent Government? II.If they should tolerate it, how farre, and with what limitations? III. If they should tolerate it, what course should be taken to bring them to a conformity with the Presbyterials? Written by Mr. John Dury. To Mr. Tho. Goodwin. Mr. Philip Nye. Mr. Samuel Hartlib. Published by a friend, for more common use.	Dury, John, 1596-1680.	1644 (1644)	Wing D2859; Thomason E6_14; ESTC R11327	31,647	43

I come to the Third Question wherein the Remedie of the breach betwixt them and their Brethren is to be thought upon in case the State should not yield unto that Toleration which they doe require In this Case two things must be supposed First that the State will finde no such satisfaction in their Way as to thinke indifferently of it Secondly that they of the Non-Communion can finde as little satisfaction in the Presbyteriall Government For if either of these were they would either get a Toleration or need none The way must be then either to give satisfaction to their Brethren or to receive it from them I would advise then that they should labour to beget a good understanding betwixt them and their Brethren For if their difference doth arise from a scruple of Conscience the State is no competent Judge thereof but it should be brought unto the Tribunall of Jesus Christ and judged by his cleere Word amongst those that are Officers in his kingdome and if it be no scruple of Conscience then I see not why they should stand so much upō it why the conscience of the State should be troubled with it why the Church kept in so dangerous uncertainties for it I suppose then that it is a Scrupulositie of Conscience rather then any worldly Consideration which keeps them at a distance from their Brethren and if it be so the neerest way to receive satisfaction therein is to deale with Men that make no lesse Conscience of their wayes then they doe whose Consciences are ruled by the same Principles that theirs are who are every way alike and equall with them in the Kingdome of Christ and who seeme to be offended at their cariage in the Gospel as they seeme to be offended at theirs therefore they are bound mutually to take notice of and to give satisfaction unto each other not should the Civill Magistrate be troubled with a Judicature of meere Spirituall Matters Now the best Way to deale with one another for an Agreement in my opinion is this that either should propose to the other a faithfull Promise of mutuall love and willingnes to yield one to another in that wherein they shal see the will of God directing them to further the means of Mutuall and of Publike Edification This Promise being made they should intend to declare each to other their Sense of that wherein they conceive the Meanes of Mutuall and of Publike Edification to stand Now then give me leave to lay open my thoughts unto you that if by the Grace of God I may be able to let them see that they really agree in all those Meanes which are any way Fundamentall and that the way of making use of the same may be intended Uniformally by both sides each toward other then their difference may be composed and their hearts joyned in the Lord for the advancement of his glorie through the Unitie of the spirit in the bond of Peace I am perswaded then that they have both the same Sence of the New-Covenant of Grace whereby the Soules of believers are joyned to God in Christ This their Sence of this Fundamentall mysterie of Godlines may be declared from the cleare Words of Scripture which may be made a Fundamentall Confession of Faith as I have elsewhere in an Epistle to the Lord Forbes advised And to this ground of all Fundamentalls in Christianity all the points of necessary Doctrine and of duties of Practice which are no lesse Fundamentall in the profession of Christianity then the knowledge of Truths wherein they also fully agree may be referred For it is cleare that all which we either need to know or doe is onely needfull for this end to enable us to walke faithfully and uprightly with God according to the Tenour of his Covenant made with us in Christ This Declaration being agreed upon they should acknowledge themselves therein and thereby Brethren in Christ and Sonnes of the same heavenly Father Servants of the same Master set in his House and over his Houshold to bring all men by their Ministry through the Tenour of that Covenant unto him Here then they should take into consideration the duties of their Ministry to agree upon that which they should doe in it for Mutuall and for Publike Edification For seeing they take themselves to be Servants of the same Master sent forth by him in the same Commission to preach joyntly to the same people the same Word I conceive that it will be no hard matter if they know their Masters will to agree upon the Manner of doing his work But to proceed orderly herein the first Matter should be concerning the calling of Ministers for you know that no man may take this Honour unto himselfe but only he that is called by God unto it as Aaron was Heb. 5.4 Therefore they should determine from the Word and the Practice of the Churches of all Ages What it is to be lawfully called unto the Ministry and What it is to be lawfully called unto a Particular Congregation to exercise the Ministery therein If they agree in this which I hope they will doe by looking to the Word of God and following the Practice of the best Reformed Churches then their next care should be to consider what Rela●ion Fellow-servants in one and the same Worke of the Ministry should have one to another and how they should doe to strengthen one anothers hands and to prevent the occasion of scandalls And if they finde that they ought as Members or the same Body to have the same care one for another and that to shew this care to strengthen one another in their Ministeriall duties and to prevent scandalls nothing is so necessary as to doe all by mutuall Councell and joynt consent then they should agree upon the Forme of such Consultations and upon the Authority which their decrees ought to carry in matters of doubt Wherein as I would have them whom I call the Non-Communionists not to maintaine any thing which may seeme to exempt the Spirits of Prophets from being subject unto the Prophets from whence confusion and trouble will inevitably arise in the Churches So I would not have the Presbyteriall Brethren to presse upon the other any obligation to make them subject unto such decrees further then shall be necessary to make up breaches and prevent scandalis which otherwise will be unavoidable And this I make no doubt they will yeeld unto that the joynt Consent of many in a Spirituall Senate should sway the Spirit of one or of a few to submit it selfe in Circumstantiall Matters which are not precisely determined by the Word but left unto the generall Rules of Christian discretion because the Apostle saith that the wisdome which is from above is peaceable gentle and easie to be entreated Jam. 3.17 from whence it followeth that such as are endued with this wisdome will easily be entreated and not selfe conceited but yeelding to the Common advice of their Brethren in matters

AN EPISTOLARY DISCOURSE Wherein amongst other particulars these following Questions are briefly resolved I. Whether or no the State should tolerate the Independent Government II. If they should tolerate it How farre and with what Limitations III. If they should not tolerate it what course should be taken to bring them to a conformity with the Presbyterials Written by Mr. JOHN DURY To Mr. THO. GOODWIN Mr. PHILIP NYE Mr. SAMUEL HARTLIB Published by a Friend for more common use Iul● 27. 1644. Imprimatur JA CRANFORD LONDON Printed for Charles Greene and are to be sold at his shop in lvie Lane 1644. The copies of Letters to Mr. THO. GOODWIN and Mr. PHILIP NYE Worthy Sirs ALthough I am not yet setled here nor can promise unto my selfe any leasure and freedome of spirit from other necessary thoughts which my present condition doth obliege me unto and although I might imagine that there is little use as yet to be made amongst you of any thing that I can propose tending to moderation in matters Ecclesiasticall by reason of the distracted condition of the Civill State Neverthelesse beause I did promise you that I would put something to paper concerning the scope of my Negotiation and the Arguments which I have used to perswade mens spirits unto mutuall forbearance and because I know that if one will observe the winde very narrowly he shall hardly ever sow his seed Eccles 11.4 or if he regard the clouds reap his corne therefore I will not delay any longer the performance of that which I undertooke Which that I may doe in some order I will branch out this Discourse into these particulars First I will relate unto you the true state of my negotiation with the Lutherans to bring them to moderation towards us Secondly I will set down the heads of Reasons which induced me to this endeavour and which I used to perswade others to that duty which I have pressed upon them Thirdly I will let you know my opinion concerning you case for which you desire to know these matters that you may understand how far I take it to be agreeing or disagreeing with that which hitherto I have agitated and what I would advise you to doe in it for the advancement of Christs kingdome and the publique edification of your Brethren The true state of my Negotiation is this That I have endeavored to bring the Lutherans to some orderly treatie with us and joynt resolution amongst themselves concerning the wayes of Peace and Unity in the publique and private profession of Christianitie that the scandalous and unconscionable effects of our divisions being taken out of the way some joynt course might be se●led to set forward the Reformation of Protestant Churches unto that period whereunto it may by Gods assistance be brought To this effect having first dealt with our own side and gotten their consent unto this Aime I have offered my selfe also unto the rest as a Sollicitor of the Councels of Peace and a Servant of the Communion of Saints in this matter In this posture I have taken the freedome to provoke all unto the duties of love and of good workes either by proposing or asking councell of them or making motions tending to the composure of differences For having made my spirit voyd of partiality and laid aside all private aimes I took up universall rules which I thought app●●●●e unto all mens understandings in Theoreticis and to their con●●●●●●es in Practicis that by this meanes we might be brought to f●llow the Apostles councell unto the Philippians chap. 3.15.16 which is that so far as we are come we should mind the same things and walke by the same rule as it becommeth those that i●deed are brethren in Jesus Christ For I did not aime so m●ch at a ●are Toleration betwixt us and Lutherans as at a pub i●ue prof●ssion of Brotherhood whereupon I conceived a Toleration would follow of it selfe in matters of lesser difference which c●uld be no just occasion of a breach and as for things of greater importance wherein some did seeme to find sufficient cause of breaking of Brotherhood from us I supposed these might be removed two wayes first by a fundamentall confession of faith and of duties requisite unto salvation which might be common to all and openly professed as the summe and substance of our Religion and badge of our fraternall union Secondly by a common and infallible rule of interpreting the Text of holy Scripture by which all Doubts incident in other matters not fundamentall may be cleered and decided and as the fundamentall Confession should serve for all in common so this Rule of interpretation should be a meanes to joyne the more learned sort in one sense and meaning lest their differences about matters of lesser moment might rent the body in pieces notwithstanding the former tye of Union in fundamentall truths For seeing we see daily that amongst men of good repute otherwise for godlines in their life and conversation and for zeale in their profession of Religion great disputes fall out for small matters as for the different acception of a word in a place of Scripture or for the meaning of a sentence which may be diversly interpreted according to the different relations which it hath unto the matters precedent and consequent and these disputes oft-times come to such a height betwixt them that they not onley lose all charitable affections and amicablenesse of conversation one towards another but also involve others their hearers into the same breaches of Christian love from whence Schismes and Seperations at last arise and increase in the Churches although there be no just cause thereof in respect of the substantiall and materiall points of Faith and Practice seeing I say we daily see that this doth fall out and that this alone is able to breed many divisions amongst the Learned notwithstanding all other tyes of brotherly union and friendship betwixt them therefore I thought it would be expedient if not necessary to find some remedy for this inconvenient which at last I suppose is found and if God would be pleased to enable me to propose it I hope it would prove effectuall towards Men that are not self-conceited but tractable either by the grounds of Reason or of Conscience led in aspirituall way which is above but not contrary unto Reason for spirituall Truths are rationally delivered in the Scripture although men that are naturally rationall are not able to c●mprehend the sense thereof In a word I conceive the remedie to be this That when we have agreed upon the substance of Faith and Practice we may have also some undoubted Rules whereby to reduce all matters which are extra-substantiall unto their owne Principles that the doubts which arise concerning the same may be decided according to the Analogie of that Faith which is out of all doubt and according to the cleere sense of the Word regularly analysed So that the Rules first of determining Fundamentalls in Faith and