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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A06347 An excellent and plaine discourse of the church, whereby the godlie may knowe and discerne the true Church, from the Romish Church, and all other false and counterfet churches, as well for matters of doctrine, as discipline, &c. Written in Frenche by M. Bartrand de Loque, a godlie minister of Dolphenine. And faithfully translated into English, by M.T.W. Seene and allowed; Traité de l'eglise. English Loque, Bertrand de.; T. W. (Thomas Wilcox), 1549?-1608. 1582 (1582) STC 16813; ESTC S103377 172,896 422

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therefore_o in_o these_o place_n mat._n 18._o luk._n 10._o but_o the_o law_n &_o commandment_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o church_n voice_n wherefore_o it_o follow_v that_o we_o must_v obey_v the_o law_n &_o commandment_n of_o the_o church_n i_o answer_v as_o above_o be_v answer_v that_o we_o must_v obey_v the_o voice_n of_o the_o church_n when_o it_o come_v out_o of_o moses_n chair_n and_o seat_n that_o be_v to_o say_v when_o her_o commandment_n shall_v be_v take_v and_o set_v from_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o when_o also_o the_o question_n shall_v be_v of_o thing_n indifferent_a which_o she_o shall_v ordain_v and_o establish_v to_o keep_v good_a order_n &_o to_o serve_v for_o edification_n and_o the_o maintenance_n and_o uphold_v of_o the_o discipline_n for_o in_o the_o thing_n which_o be_v contrary_a to_o god_n word_n and_o in_o those_o also_o which_o of_o themselves_o be_v indifferent_a but_o yet_o become_v and_o make_v evil_a through_o superstition_n to_o wit_n because_o that_o in_o they_o they_o will_v place_v the_o service_n of_o god_n and_o that_o they_o will_v think_v by_o they_o to_o deserve_v god_n grace_n and_o the_o forgiveness_n of_o sin_n in_o these_o thing_n i_o say_v we_o ought_v not_o at_o any_o hand_n to_o obey_v 5.29_o acts._n 4.19_o 5.29_o but_o in_o such_o commandment_n of_o the_o church_n we_o ought_v to_o say_v that_o it_o be_v better_a to_o obey_v god_n then_o man_n the_o five_o reason_n 27_o ester_n 9.26_o 27_o as_o in_o ester_n it_o be_v ordain_v that_o beside_o the_o feast_n command_v in_o the_o law_n they_o shall_v celebrate_v every_o year_n the_o feast_n of_o lot_n which_o be_v call_v purim_n 4.59_o 1._o macha_n 4.59_o and_o in_o the_o history_n of_o the_o maccabee_n the_o feast_n of_o the_o dedication_n call_v in_o greek_a by_o saint_n john_n 10.22_o john_n 10.22_o encaenia_fw-la so_o the_o christian_a church_n may_v well_o at_o this_o day_n ordain_v feast_n as_o shall_v seem_v unto_o she_o to_o be_v expedient_a and_o profitable_a for_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n and_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o people_n as_o it_o have_v in_o time_n heretofore_o ordain_v the_o feast_n and_o holy_a day_n of_o saint_n peter_n of_o saint_n anthony_n of_o saint_n marcellus_n of_o saint_n margaret_n and_o all_o the_o rest_n i_o answer_v that_o there_o be_v no_o likeness_n at_o all_o between_o the_o feast_n of_o purim_n or_o lot_n and_o of_o the_o dedication_n and_o these_o of_o saint_n peter_n saint_n anthony_n and_o such_o other_o i_o deny_v not_o but_o that_o those_o two_o first_o be_v in_o former_a time_n establish_v by_o the_o church_n beside_o the_o feast_n ordain_v in_o the_o law_n but_o let_v we_o mark_v i_o pray_v you_o how_o and_o to_o what_o end_n certain_o this_o be_v for_o the_o glory_n of_o god_n &_o to_o bring_v to_o their_o remembrance_n his_o great_a benefit_n towards_o his_o church_n that_o they_o also_o may_v give_v he_o thanks_o therefore_o for_o in_o ester_n it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o feast_n of_o purim_n or_o lot_n be_v ordain_v by_o the_o church_n for_o remembrance_n of_o this_o that_o the_o people_n be_v deliver_v from_o the_o curse_a conspiracy_n of_o haman_n and_o judas_n machabeus_n with_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o whole_a church_n ordain_v the_o feast_n of_o the_o dedication_n otherwise_o call_v encaenia_fw-la in_o remembrance_n of_o the_o deliveraunce_n of_o the_o people_n and_o of_o the_o repair_n and_o hallow_v again_o as_o it_o be_v of_o the_o temple_n which_o have_v be_v pollute_v by_o antiochus_n and_o we_o deny_v not_o but_o that_o synod_n may_v ordain_v certain_a day_n and_o solemn_o keep_v they_o to_o the_o end_n that_o the_o people_n may_v cease_v from_o their_o own_o work_n to_o fast_o to_o pray_v unto_o god_n and_o to_o yield_v he_o thanks_n according_a as_o thing_n shall_v fall_v out_o &_o occasion_n be_v minister_v so_o that_o it_o be_v do_v without_o superstition_n idolatry_n or_o evil_a example_n but_o how_o can_v we_o by_o the_o example_n of_o the_o two_o feast_n aforesaid_a approve_v or_o allow_v the_o feast_n of_o the_o papacy_n or_o popedom_n first_o they_o be_v but_o two_o only_a but_o in_o the_o popedom_n there_o be_v a_o infinite_a number_n for_o what_o measure_n do_v they_o ever_o keep_v in_o the_o number_n thereof_o second_o the_o two_o above_o speak_v of_o be_v institute_v to_o the_o name_n of_o god_n and_o at_o no_o hand_n to_o the_o name_n of_o any_o dead_a saint_n but_o these_o be_v ordain_v to_o the_o name_n of_o creature_n and_o not_o to_o the_o name_n of_o god_n as_o we_o hear_v they_o call_v they_o the_o feast_n of_o s._n anthony_n of_o s._n francis_n of_o saint_n vincent_n of_o saint_n sebastian_n of_o saint_n agathon_n of_o the_o virgin_n mary_n and_o so_o of_o other_o three_o those_o have_v their_o foundation_n and_o beginning_n for_o the_o service_n of_o god_n and_o always_o serve_v to_o edification_n for_o they_o be_v establish_v and_o appoint_v as_o have_v be_v say_v to_o thank_v god_n &_o to_o give_v he_o praise_v for_o the_o benefit_n which_o he_o have_v bestow_v upon_o his_o church_n these_o have_v no_o foundation_n or_o beginning_n but_o in_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n &_o serve_v to_o no_o other_o purpose_n or_o matter_n either_o more_o or_o less_o than_o the_o feast_n and_o holy_a day_n of_o the_o pagan_n and_o ethnic_n for_o wherefore_o be_v it_o that_o the_o papist_n give_v the_o name_n of_o saint_n to_o their_o festival_n day_n but_o because_o they_o mean_v to_o sanctify_v the_o say_a feast_n in_o the_o honour_n of_o those_o saint_n as_o they_o call_v they_o who_o name_n they_o bear_v and_o in_o so_o do_v do_v they_o not_o set_v up_o the_o saint_n in_o god_n place_n because_o they_o serve_v &_o give_v that_o honour_n unto_o they_o which_o appertain_v to_o he_o alone_o as_o in_o old_a time_n the_o pagan_n do_v in_o the_o celebration_n of_o their_o feast_n and_o divine_a service_n these_o be_v the_o principal_a reason_n upon_o which_o the_o romishe_a catholic_n ground_n themselves_o thereby_o to_o prove_v that_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o church_n to_o make_v law_n to_o tie_v man_n conscience_n withal_o now_o it_o remain_v that_o we_o show_v and_o set_v down_o our_o reason_n to_o prove_v the_o contrary_n the_o first_o be_v this_o it_o be_v write_v in_o isaiah_n 33.22_o isaiah_n 33.22_o the_o lord_n be_v our_o judge_n the_o lord_n be_v our_o law_n giver_n the_o lord_n be_v our_o king_n 12._o jam._n 4._o 12._o and_o in_o saint_n james._n there_o be_v one_o law_n giver_n which_o be_v able_a to_o save_v and_o destroy_v whereby_o it_o be_v very_o clear_o see_v that_o it_o belong_v to_o god_n alone_o to_o make_v ecclesiastical_a law_n appertein_v to_o his_o service_n the_o second_o reason_n there_o be_v none_o but_o god_n alone_o that_o can_v institute_v and_o ordain_v a_o lawful_a service_n which_o may_v be_v agreeable_a to_o himself_o and_o acceptable_a in_o his_o sight_n for_o this_o cause_n he_o himself_o say_v 12.8.32_o deut._n 12.8.32_o you_o shall_v not_o do_v after_o all_o these_o thing_n that_o you_o do_v here_o this_o day_n that_o be_v every_o man_n whatsoever_o seem_v good_a in_o his_o own_o eye_n but_o whatsoever_o i_o command_v you_o take_v heed_n you_o do_v it_o thou_o shall_v put_v nothing_o thereto_o nor_o take_v aught_o therefrom_o and_o in_o jeremiah_n 23._o jer._n 7.22_o 23._o i_o speak_v not_o say_v he_o unto_o your_o father_n nor_o command_v they_o when_o i_o bring_v they_o out_o of_o the_o land_n of_o egypt_n concern_v burn_v offering_n and_o sacrifice_n but_o this_o thing_n i_o command_v they_o say_v obey_v my_o voice_n and_o i_o will_v be_v your_o god_n and_o you_o shall_v be_v my_o people_n and_o walk_v you_o in_o all_o the_o way_n which_o i_o have_v command_v you_o that_o it_o may_v be_v well_o unto_o you_o he_o say_v also_o by_o his_o prophet_n samuel_n 15.22_o 1._o sam._n 15.22_o think_v thou_o that_o the_o lord_n have_v as_o great_a pleasure_n in_o burn_a offering_n and_o sacrifice_n as_o when_o his_o voice_n be_v obey_v behold_v to_o obey_v be_v better_a than_o sacrifice_n and_o to_o hearken_v be_v better_a than_o the_o fat_a of_o ram_n we_o may_v read_v many_o such_o or_o the_o like_a sentence_n but_o special_o this_o be_v notable_a and_o excellent_a that_o the_o son_n of_o aaron_n be_v horrible_o burn_v and_o consume_v with_o the_o fire_n which_o be_v send_v out_o from_o the_o lord_n etc._n levit._fw-la 10.1_o etc._n etc._n because_o they_o offer_v strange_a fire_n and_o which_o in_o deed_n be_v not_o command_v they_o but_o we_o add_v that_o the_o law_n which_o concern_v doctrine_n and_o by_o which_o man_n conscience_n be_v tie_v apperteine_a to_o the_o service_n of_o god_n and_o therefore_o it_o follow_v that_o there_o be_v none_o but_o god_n
and_o meet_v together_o when_o james_n be_v to_o take_v counsel_n of_o that_o which_o saint_n paul_n have_v to_o do_v 21.18_o act._n 21.18_o touch_v the_o purge_n and_o clear_n of_o himself_o from_o the_o slander_n that_o be_v lay_v upon_o he_o and_o give_v out_o against_o he_o and_o we_o see_v also_o whither_o jesus_n christ_n send_v the_o offender_n who_o be_v stiff_a &_o not_o yield_v to_o a_o confession_n of_o their_o fault_n when_o he_o say_v tell_v it_o unto_o the_o church_n 18.17_o mat._n 18.17_o for_o by_o the_o church_n there_o he_o mean_v no_o other_o thing_n but_o the_o consistory_n that_o be_v to_o say_v the_o governor_n and_o guider_n of_o the_o church_n even_o as_o chrysostome_n have_v expound_v it_o as_o we_o have_v before_o observe_v it_o and_o put_v it_o down_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n to_o be_v short_a it_o be_v very_o manifest_a &_o plain_a that_o there_o must_v be_v in_o the_o church_n ancient_n or_o overwatcher_n appoint_v to_o this_o end_n to_o watch_v over_o the_o manner_n of_o the_o people_n and_o who_o also_o together_o with_o the_o pastor_n must_v look_v to_o the_o exercise_n and_o execution_n of_o discipline_n that_o the_o church_n may_v be_v well_o guide_v and_o govern_v the_o four_o head_n or_o point_n be_v church_n of_o the_o correction_n and_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n touch_v the_o correction_n and_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n we_o have_v say_v that_o in_o every_o church_n there_o ought_v to_o be_v a_o consistory_n to_o exercise_v and_o execute_v the_o discipline_n now_o we_o add_v that_o this_o aught_o to_o be_v find_v true_a and_o declare_v special_o in_o the_o correction_n and_o censure_n whereupon_o we_o have_v certain_a consideration_n to_o be_v observe_v and_o mark_v the_o first_o be_v that_o we_o must_v make_v a_o difference_n between_o secret_a fault_n &_o those_o which_o be_v public_a and_o open_a that_o we_o may_v apply_v thereto_o meet_a and_o convenient_a censure_n i_o call_v they_o secret_a fault_n which_o be_v know_v to_o one_o alone_a or_o to_o very_a few_o person_n and_o i_o call_v they_o public_a and_o open_a fault_n which_o be_v notorious_a and_o manifest_o know_v of_o every_o one_o or_o else_o of_o very_a many_o man_n if_o then_o the_o fault_n be_v secret_a we_o must_v follow_v in_o the_o correction_n and_o amendment_n thereof_o the_o rule_n which_o be_v prescribe_v by_o jesus_n christ_n 18.15_o mat._n 18.15_o in_o matthew_n 18._o where_o it_o be_v say_v if_o thy_o brother_n offend_v or_o sin_n against_o thou_o go_v tell_v he_o thereof_o between_o thou_o and_o he_o alone_o etc._n etc._n but_o if_o the_o fault_n be_v public_a and_o open_a we_o must_v follow_v the_o commandment_n and_o example_n of_o saint_n paul_n 5.20_o 1._o tim._n 5.20_o his_o commandment_n be_v this_o such_o as_o offend_v reprove_v open_o that_o the_o rest_n also_o may_v fear_v his_o example_n be_v in_o that_o when_o s._n peter_n have_v commit_v a_o offensive_a fault_n he_o do_v not_o warn_v he_o thereof_o apart_o 2.14_o gala._n 2.14_o or_o by_o himself_o but_o do_v reprove_v he_o open_o &_o that_o before_o the_o church_n the_o second_o consideration_n be_v that_o among_o open_a fault_n and_o offence_n there_o be_v some_o which_o be_v less_o than_o othersome_a be_v and_o therefore_o discretion_n and_o judgement_n ought_v to_o be_v use_v in_o the_o censure_v thereof_o but_o all_o the_o circumstance_n can_v be_v easy_o express_v wherefore_o the_o consistory_n ought_v to_o be_v wise_a &_o of_o good_a judgement_n to_o practice_v the_o admonition_n and_o warning_n of_o saint_n jude_n 22.23_o jude._n 22.23_o when_o he_o say_v have_v compassion_n of_o some_o in_o put_v difference_n &_o other_o some_o save_v with_o fear_n pull_v they_o out_o of_o the_o fire_n for_o amongst_o fault_n some_o deserve_v but_o simple_a or_o bare_a admonition_n alone_o othersom_a suspension_n from_o the_o holy_a supper_n other_o excommunication_n and_o other_o some_o other_o censure_n but_o we_o can_v be_v deceive_v in_o this_o what_o so_o ever_o it_o be_v in_o follow_v &_o do_v that_o which_o the_o word_n of_o god_n command_v we_o that_o be_v to_o say_v to_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n rebellious_a &_o impenitent_a person_n also_o faulty_a person_n 10._o mat._n 18.17_o 1._o cor._n 5.3.4_o tit._n 3._o 10._o which_o stand_v stiff_o in_o their_o fault_n and_o consequent_o heretic_n the_o third_o consideration_n be_v that_o when_o the_o question_n be_v of_o censure_n and_o namely_o of_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o use_n of_o the_o supper_n or_o of_o excommunication_n one_o alone_o shall_v not_o take_v upon_o he_o the_o knowledge_n thereof_o but_o it_o be_v necessary_a and_o meet_a that_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o church_n shall_v be_v interpose_v or_o come_v between_o for_o one_o man_n alone_o whatsoever_o grace_n he_o have_v receive_v from_o god_n can_v or_o ought_v not_o to_o attribute_v unto_o himself_o such_o a_o authority_n and_o therefore_o s._n paul_n be_v willing_a to_o excommunicate_v the_o incestuous_a person_n say_v thus_o 5.3.4.5_o 1_o cor._n 5.3.4.5_o i_o very_o as_o absent_v in_o body_n but_o present_a in_o spirit_n have_v determine_v already_o as_o though_o i_o be_v present_a that_o he_o that_o have_v thus_o do_v this_o thing_n when_o you_o be_v gather_v together_o and_o my_o spirit_n in_o the_o name_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n that_o such_o a_o one_o i_o say_v by_o the_o power_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n be_v deliver_v unto_o satan_n etc._n etc._n although_o he_o be_v a_o apostle_n yet_o he_o alone_o and_o of_o his_o own_o authority_n do_v not_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n this_o incestuous_a person_n but_o communicate_v his_o advice_n &_o order_n to_z &_o with_o the_o church_n to_o the_o end_n that_o the_o matter_n may_v be_v do_v by_o common_a authority_n and_o consent_n and_o indeed_o in_o old_a time_n this_o be_v the_o common_a and_o usual_a manner_n to_o wit_n that_o the_o ecclesiastical_a censure_n shall_v be_v execute_v 39_o tertul._n apologeti_n ca._n 39_o by_o the_o consistory_n for_o as_o it_o appear_v by_o the_o apologetike_n or_o defensive_a writing_n of_o tertullian_n if_o question_n shall_v be_v have_v touch_v they_o that_o ought_v to_o be_v excommunicate_v or_o of_o they_o that_o have_v commit_v certain_a fault_n whether_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v receive_v or_o no_o this_o authority_n appertain_v to_o the_o minister_n and_o elder_n of_o the_o church_n who_o ordinary_o and_o common_o assemble_v and_o meet_v together_o for_o that_o purpose_n and_o matter_n but_o the_o denounce_v or_o publish_v of_o the_o excommunication_n or_o the_o cast_n of_o one_o our_o or_o the_o public_a receive_n of_o he_o again_o before_o the_o church_n be_v do_v by_o the_o pastor_n in_o this_o sort_n origen_n ordain_v 7._o origen_n in_o johan._n hom._n 7._o that_o he_o which_o have_v be_v three_o time_n admonish_v and_o yet_o afterwards_o amend_v not_o shall_v be_v cut_v off_o from_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n by_o the_o governor_n of_o the_o church_n and_o saint_n cyprian_n 27._o cypri_n lib._n 3._o epist_n 10._o 14._o &_o 27._o make_v mention_n of_o the_o custom_n and_o manner_n use_v in_o his_o time_n touch_v the_o public_a and_o open_a censure_n of_o the_o church_n say_v that_o nothing_o at_o all_o be_v do_v by_o the_o bishop_n without_o the_o counsel_n of_o the_o clergy_n and_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o people_n wherefore_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n declare_v himself_o to_o be_v a_o false_a dealer_n and_o indeed_o a_o tyrant_n when_o snatch_v away_o and_o that_o by_o violence_n from_o the_o church_n the_o right_a and_o power_n that_o belong_v thereto_o he_o arrogate_v to_o himself_o and_o to_o he_o power_n &_o authority_n to_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n and_o to_o excommunicate_v who_o so_o ever_o he_o or_o any_o of_o they_o shall_v think_v good_a the_o four_o consideration_n be_v touch_v the_o end_n which_o man_n ought_v to_o set_v before_o they_o in_o the_o correction_n of_o the_o church_n &_o namely_o in_o excommunication_n now_o there_o be_v three_o special_a end_n thereof_o the_o first_o be_v that_o those_o which_o be_v of_o wicked_a life_n and_o conversation_n may_v not_o have_v any_o place_n amongst_o true_a christian_n to_o the_o contempt_n of_o god_n name_n the_o second_o be_v that_o good_a people_n may_v not_o be_v corrupt_v by_o the_o conversation_n of_o the_o wicked_a 6.6_o 1._o cor._n 6.6_o for_o a_o little_a leaven_n leaven_v the_o whole_a lump_n the_o third_o be_v that_o they_o which_o have_v fall_v and_o offend_v may_v be_v confound_v and_o ashamed_a in_o themselves_o and_o aftewardes_o lift_v up_o again_o comfort_v and_o reconcile_v to_o the_o church_n that_o be_v it_o which_o s._n paul_n set_v out_o and_o mean_v 3.14_o 2._o thes_n 3.14_o when_o he_o say_v if_o any_o man_n obey_v not_o our_o