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england_n henry_n king_n richard_n 15,475 5 9.2713 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A93120 An argument of lavv concerning the bill of attainder of high-treason of Thomas Earle of Strafford at a conference in a committee of both Houses of Parliament. By Mr. St. John his Majesties Solicitor Generall. Published by order of the Commons House. St. John, Oliver, 1598?-1673. 1641 (1641) Wing S321; ESTC R203496 35,970 52

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wherein_o this_o statute_n be_v make_v so_o that_o my_o lord_n immediate_o before_o and_o at_o the_o time_n of_o the_o make_n of_o this_o statute_n there_o be_v war_n between_o those_o of_o the_o shire_n ground_n mention_v in_o this_o statute_n and_o the_o irish_a the_o conclude_a of_o war_n and_o act_n offensive_a and_o invasive_a there_o mention_v can_v be_v intend_v against_o no_o other_o but_o the_o irish_a enemy_n again_o the_o word_n of_o the_o statute_n be_v no_o captain_n shall_v assemble_v the_o people_n of_o the_o shire_n ground_n to_o conclude_v of_o peace_n or_o war_n be_v it_o to_o be_v presume_v that_o those_o of_o the_o shire_n ground_n will_v conclude_v of_o war_n against_o themselves_o nor_o say_v the_o statute_n shall_v carry_v those_o of_o the_o shire_n ground_n to_o do_v any_o act_n invasive_a by_o the_o construction_n which_o be_v make_v on_o the_o other_o side_n they_o must_v be_v carry_v to_o fight_v against_o themselves_o last_o the_o word_n be_v as_o captain_n none_o shall_v assume_v the_o name_n or_o authority_n of_o a_o captain_n or_o as_o a_o captain_n shall_v gather_v the_o people_n together_o or_o as_o a_o captain_n lead_v they_o the_o offence_n be_v not_o in_o the_o matter_n but_o in_o the_o manner_n if_o the_o act_n offensive_a be_v against_o the_o king_n good_a subject_n those_o that_o go_v under_o command_n be_v punishable_a as_o well_o as_o the_o commander_n but_o in_o respect_n the_o soldier_n know_v the_o service_n to_o be_v good_a in_o itself_o be_v against_o the_o enemy_n and_o that_o it_o be_v not_o for_o they_o to_o dispute_v the_o authority_n of_o their_o commander_n the_o penalty_n of_o a_o 100_o pound_n be_v lay_v only_o upon_o he_o that_o as_o captain_n shall_v assume_v this_o power_n without_o warrant_n the_o people_n command_v be_v not_o within_o the_o statute_n my_o lord_n the_o logic_n whereupon_o this_o argument_n have_v be_v frame_v stand_v thus_o because_o the_o statute_n of_o the_o eleven_o year_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n inflict_v a_o penalty_n of_o a_o 100_o pound_n and_o no_o more_o upon_o any_o man_n that_o as_o a_o captain_n without_o warrant_n and_o upon_o his_o own_o head_n shall_v conclude_v of_o or_o make_v war_n against_o the_o king_n enemy_n therefore_o the_o statute_n of_o the_o 18._o year_n of_o henry_n the_o six_o be_v repeal_v which_o make_v it_o treason_n to_o lay_v soldier_n upon_o or_o to_o levy_v war_n against_o the_o king_n good_a people_n but_o my_o lord_n observation_n have_v be_v make_v upon_o other_o word_n of_o this_o statute_n that_o be_v that_o without_o licence_n of_o the_o deputy_n these_o thing_n can_v be_v do_v this_o show_v that_o the_o deputy_n be_v within_o none_o of_o the_o statute_n my_o lord_n this_o argument_n stand_v upon_o the_o same_o reason_n with_o the_o former_a because_o he_o have_v the_o order_n of_o the_o army_n of_o ireland_n for_o the_o defence_n of_o the_o people_n and_o may_v give_v warrant_n to_o the_o officer_n of_o the_o army_n upon_o eminent_a occasion_n of_o invasion_n to_o resist_v or_o prosecute_v the_o enemy_n because_o of_o the_o danger_n that_o else_o may_v ensue_v forthwith_o by_o stay_v for_o a_o warrant_n from_o his_o majesty_n out_o of_o england_n therefore_o it_o be_v no_o treason_n in_o the_o deputy_n to_o employ_v the_o army_n in_o ireland_n whensoever_o he_o please_v for_o the_o subversion_n of_o the_o king_n good_a people_n and_o of_o the_o law_n my_o lord_n the_o statute_n of_o the_o ten_o year_n of_o henry_n the_o seven_o the_o 17._o chapter_n touch_v upon_o for_o this_o purpose_n clear_v the_o business_n in_o both_o point_n for_o there_o it_o be_v declare_v that_o none_o ought_v to_o make_v war_n upon_o the_o irish_a rebel_n and_o enemy_n without_o warrant_n from_o the_o lieutenant_n the_o forfeiture_n a_o 100_o pound_n as_o here_o the_o statute_n be_v the_o same_o with_o this_o and_o may_v as_o well_o have_v be_v cite_v for_o repeal_n the_o statute_n of_o the_o eighteen_o year_n of_o henry_n the_o 6._o as_o this_o of_o the_o 11._o year_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n but_o if_o this_o have_v be_v insist_v upon_o it_o will_v have_v expound_v the_o other_o two_o clear_a against_o he_o object_n my_o lord_n it_o have_v be_v further_o say_v although_o the_o statute_n be_v in_o force_n and_o there_o be_v a_o treason_n within_o it_o yet_o the_o parliament_n have_v no_o jurisdiction_n the_o treason_n be_v commit_v in_o ireland_n therefore_o not_o triable_a here_o answ_n my_o lord_n sir_n john_n perrot_n his_o predecessor_n in_o the_o 24._o year_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n be_v try_v in_o the_o king_n bench_n for_o treason_n do_v in_o ireland_n when_o he_o be_v deputy_n orucke_v in_o the_o 33._o year_n of_o queen_n elizabeth_n judge_v here_o for_o treason_n do_v ireland_n object_n but_o it_o will_v be_v say_v these_o trial_n be_v after_o the_o statute_n of_o the_o 34._o year_n of_o henry_n the_o eight_o which_o enact_v that_o treason_n beyond_o sea_n may_v be_v try_v in_o england_n answ_n my_o lord_n his_o predecessor_n my_o lord_n grace_n be_v try_v and_o adjudge_v here_o in_o the_o king_n bench_n that_o be_v in_o trinity_n term_v in_o the_o 33._o year_n of_o henry_n the_o eight_o this_o be_v before_o the_o make_n of_o that_o statute_n object_n to_o this_o again_o will_v be_v say_v that_o it_o be_v for_o treason_n by_o the_o law_n and_o statute_n of_o england_n but_o this_o be_v not_o for_o any_o thing_n that_o be_v treason_n by_o the_o law_n of_o england_n but_o by_o a_o irish_a statute_n so_o that_o the_o question_n be_v only_o whether_o your_o lordship_n in_o parliament_n here_o have_v cognisance_n of_o a_o offence_n make_v treason_n by_o a_o irish_a statute_n in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n of_o judicature_n without_o bill_n for_o so_o be_v the_o present_a question_n for_o the_o clear_n of_o this_o i_o shall_v propound_v two_o thing_n to_o your_o lordship_n consideration_n 1._o whether_o the_o rule_n for_o expound_v the_o irish_a statute_n and_o custom_n be_v one_o and_o the_o same_o in_o england_n as_o in_o ireland_n 2._o that_o be_v admit_v whether_o the_o parliament_n in_o england_n have_v cognizance_n or_o jurisdiction_n of_o thing_n there_o do_v in_o respect_n of_o the_o place_n because_o the_o king_n writ_n run_v not_o there_o for_o the_o first_o if_o in_o respect_n of_o the_o place_n the_o parliament_n here_o have_v cognizance_n there_o and_o second_o if_o the_o rule_n for_o expound_v the_o irish_a statute_n and_o custom_n be_v the_o same_o here_o as_o there_o this_o exception_n as_o i_o humble_o conceive_v must_v fall_v away_o in_o england_n there_o be_v the_o common_a law_n the_o statute_n the_o act_n of_o parliament_n and_o custom_n peculiar_a to_o certain_a place_n differ_v from_o the_o common_a law_n if_o any_o question_n arise_v concern_v either_o a_o custom_n or_o a_o act_n of_o parliament_n the_o common_a law_n of_o england_n the_o first_o the_o primitive_a and_o the_o general_a law_n that_o be_v the_o rule_n and_o expositour_n of_o of_o they_o and_o of_o their_o several_a extent_n it_o be_v so_o here_o it_o be_v so_o in_o ireland_n the_o common_a law_n of_o england_n be_v the_o common_a law_n of_o ireland_n likewise_o the_o same_o here_o and_o there_o in_o all_o the_o part_n of_o it_o it_o be_v introduce_v into_o ireland_n by_o king_n john_n and_o afterward_o by_o king_n henry_n the_o three_o by_o act_n of_o parliament_n hold_v in_o england_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o patent_n roll_v of_o the_o 30_o year_n of_o king_n henry_n the_o three_o the_o first_o membranâ_fw-la the_o word_n be_v quia_fw-la pro_fw-la communi_fw-la utilitate_fw-la terrae_fw-la hiberaniae_fw-la &_o unitate_fw-la terrarum_fw-la regis_fw-la rex_fw-la vult_fw-la &_o the_o common_a consilio_fw-la regis_fw-la provisum_fw-la est_fw-la quòd_fw-la omnes_fw-la leges_fw-la &_o consuetudines_fw-la quae_fw-la in_o regno_fw-la angliae_fw-la tenentur_fw-la in_o hibernia_n teneantur_fw-la &_o eadem_fw-la terra_fw-la eisdem_fw-la legibus_fw-la subjaceat_fw-la &_o per_fw-la easdem_fw-la regatur_fw-la sicut_fw-la dominus_fw-la johannes_n rex_fw-la cum_fw-la ultimò_fw-la esset_fw-la in_o hibernia_n statuit_fw-la &_o fieri_fw-la mandavit_fw-la quia_fw-la etc._n etc._n kex_n vult_fw-la quod_fw-la omne_fw-la brevia_fw-la de_fw-la communi_fw-la jure_fw-la quae_fw-la currunt_fw-la in_o angliae_fw-la similitèr_fw-la currant_n in_o hibernia_n sub_fw-la novo_fw-la sigillo_fw-la regis_fw-la mandatum_fw-la est_fw-la archiepiscopis_fw-la etc._n etc._n quod_fw-la pro_fw-la pace_fw-la &_o tranquillitate_fw-la ejusdem_fw-la terrae_fw-la per_fw-la easdem_fw-la leges_fw-la eos_fw-la regi_fw-la &_o deduci_fw-la permittant_fw-la &_o eas_fw-la in_o omnibus_fw-la sequantur_fw-la in_o cujus_fw-la etc._n etc._n testae_fw-la rege_fw-la apud_fw-la woodstock_n decimo_fw-la nono_fw-la die_fw-la septembris_fw-la here_o be_v a_o union_n of_o both_o kingdom_n and_o that_o by_o act_n of_o parliament_n and_o the_o same_o law_n to_o be_v use_v here_o as_o there_o in_o omnibus_fw-la my_o
lord_n that_o nothing_o may_v be_v leave_v here_o for_o a_o exception_n that_o be_v that_o in_o treason_n felony_n and_o other_o capital_a offence_n concern_v life_n the_o irish_a law_n be_v not_o the_o same_o as_o here_o therefore_o it_o be_v enact_v in_o a_o parliament_n hold_v in_o england_n in_o the_o 14._o year_n of_o edward_n the_o second_o it_o be_v not_o in_o print_n neither_o but_o be_v in_o the_o parliament_n book_n that_o the_o law_n concern_v life_n and_o member_n shall_v be_v the_o same_o in_o ireland_n as_o in_o england_n and_o that_o no_o exception_n may_v yet_o remain_v in_o a_o parliament_n hold_v in_o england_n the_o five_o year_n of_o edward_n the_o three_o it_o be_v enact_v quod_fw-la una_fw-la &_o eadem_fw-la lex_fw-la fiat_fw-la tam_fw-la hibernicis_n quam_fw-la anglicis_fw-la this_o act_n be_v enroll_v in_o the_o patent_n roll_v of_o the_o five_o year_n of_o ed._n the_o 3._o part_n 1._o membr_n 25._o the_o irish_a therefore_o receive_v their_o law_n from_o hence_o they_o send_v their_o student_n at_o law_n to_o the_o inn_n of_o court_n in_o england_n where_o they_o receive_v their_o degree_n and_o of_o they_o and_o of_o the_o common_a lawyer_n of_o this_o kingdom_n be_v the_o judge_n make_v the_o petition_n have_v be_v many_o from_o ireland_n to_o send_v from_o hence_o some_o judge_n more_o learned_a in_o the_o law_n than_o those_o they_o have_v there_o it_o have_v be_v frequent_a in_o case_n of_o difficulty_n there_o to_o send_v some_o time_n to_o the_o parliament_n here_o sometime_o to_o the_o king_n by_o advice_n from_o the_o judge_n here_o to_o send_v they_o resolution_n of_o their_o doubt_n among_o many_o i_o will_v cite_v your_o lordship_n only_o one_o because_o it_o be_v in_o a_o case_n of_o treason_n upon_o a_o irish_a statute_n and_o therefore_o full_a to_o this_o point_n by_o a_o statute_n there_o make_v in_o the_o five_o year_n of_o edward_n the_o four_o there_o be_v provision_n make_v for_o such_o as_o upon_o suggestion_n be_v commit_v to_o prison_n for_o treason_n that_o the_o party_n commit_v if_o he_o can_v procure_v 24._o compurgator_n shall_v be_v bail_v and_o let_v out_o of_o prison_n two_o citizen_n of_o dublin_n be_v by_o a_o grand_a jury_n present_v to_o have_v commit_v treason_n they_o desire_v the_o benefit_n of_o this_o statute_n that_o they_o may_v be_v let_v out_o of_o prison_n upon_o tender_a of_o their_o compurgator_n the_o word_n of_o the_o statute_n of_o the_o 5._o year_n of_o ed._n the_o four_o in_o ireland_n be_v obscure_a the_o judge_n there_o not_o be_v satisfy_v what_o to_o do_v send_v the_o case_n over_o to_o the_o queen_n desire_v the_o opinion_n of_o the_o judge_n here_o which_o be_v do_v according_o the_o judge_n here_o send_v over_o their_o opinion_n which_o i_o have_v out_o of_o the_o book_n of_o justice_n anderson_n one_o of_o the_o judge_n consult_v withal_o the_o judge_n here_o deliver_v opinion_n upon_o a_o irish_a statute_n in_o case_n of_o treason_n if_o it_o be_v object_v that_o in_o this_o case_n the_o judge_n here_o do_v not_o judge_v upon_o the_o party_n their_o opinion_n be_v only_o ad_fw-la informandam_fw-la conscientiam_fw-la of_o the_o judge_n in_o ireland_n that_o the_o judgement_n belong_v to_o the_o judge_n there_o my_o lord_n with_o submission_n this_o and_o the_o other_o authority_n prove_v that_o for_o which_o they_o be_v cite_v that_o be_v that_o no_o absurdity_n no_o failer_z of_o justice_n will_v ensue_v if_o this_o great_a judicatory_a shall_v judge_v of_o treason_n so_o make_v by_o a_o irish_a statute_n the_o common_a law_n the_o rule_n of_o judge_v upon_o a_o irish_a statute_n the_o plea_n of_o the_o crown_n for_o thing_n of_o life_n and_o death_n be_v the_o same_o here_o and_o there_o this_o be_v all_o that_o have_v yet_o be_v offer_v for_o the_o second_o point_n that_o england_n have_v no_o power_n of_o judicature_n for_o thing_n do_v in_o ireland_n my_o lord_n the_o constant_a practice_n of_o age_n prove_v the_o contrary_a writ_n of_o error_n in_o plea_n of_o the_o crown_n as_o well_o as_o in_o civil_a cause_n have_v in_o all_o king_n reign_v be_v bring_v here_o even_o in_o the_o inferior_a court_n of_o westminster_n hall_n upon_o judgement_n give_v in_o the_o court_n of_o ireland_n the_o practice_n be_v so_o frequent_a and_o so_o well_o know_v as_o that_o i_o shall_v cite_v none_o of_o they_o to_o your_o lordship_n no_o precedent_n will_v i_o believe_v be_v produce_v to_o your_o lordship_n that_o ever_o the_o case_n be_v remand_v back_o again_o into_o ireland_n because_o the_o question_n rise_v upon_o a_o irish_a statute_n or_o custom_n object_n but_o it_o will_v be_v say_v that_o writ_n of_o error_n be_v only_o upon_o a_o failer_z of_o justice_n in_o ireland_n and_o that_o suit_n can_v original_o be_v commence_v here_o for_o thing_n do_v in_o ireland_n because_o the_o king_n writ_n run_v not_o in_o ireland_n answ_n this_o may_v be_v a_o good_a plea_n in_o the_o king_n bench_n and_o inferior_a court_n at_o westminster_n hall_n the_o question_n be_v whether_o it_o be_v so_o in_o parliament_n the_o king_n writ_n run_v not_o within_o the_o county_n palatine_n of_o chester_n and_o durham_n nor_o within_o the_o five_o port_n neither_o do_v it_o in_o wales_n before_o the_o union_n in_o henry_n the_o eighth_n time_n after_o the_o law_n of_o england_n be_v bring_v into_o wales_n in_o king_n edward_n the_o first_o be_v time_n suit_n be_v not_o original_o commence_v in_o westminster_n hall_n for_o thing_n do_v in_o they_o yet_o this_o never_o exclude_v the_o parliament_n suit_n for_o life_n land_n and_o good_n within_o those_o jurisdiction_n be_v determinable_a in_o parliament_n as_o well_o as_o in_o any_o other_o part_n of_o the_o realm_n ireland_n as_o appear_v by_o the_o statute_n of_o the_o thirty_o year_n of_o henry_n the_o three_o before_o mention_v be_v unite_v to_o the_o crown_n of_o england_n by_o the_o statute_n of_o the_o eight_o and_o twenty_o year_n of_o henry_n the_o six_o in_o ireland_n it_o be_v declare_v in_o these_o word_n that_o ireland_n be_v the_o proper_a dominion_n of_o england_n and_o unite_v to_o the_o crown_n of_o england_n which_o crown_n of_o england_n be_v of_o itself_o and_o by_o itself_o full_o whole_o and_o entire_o endow_v with_o all_o power_n and_o authority_n sufficient_a to_o yield_v to_o the_o subject_n of_o the_o same_o full_a and_o plenary_a remedy_n in_o all_o debate_n and_o suit_n whatsoever_o by_o the_o statute_n of_o the_o 33._o year_n of_o henry_n the_o eight_o the_o first_o chapter_n when_o the_o king_n of_o england_n first_o assume_v the_o title_n of_o king_n of_o ireland_n it_o be_v there_o enact_v that_o ireland_n still_o be_v to_o be_v hold_v as_o a_o crown_n annex_v and_o unite_v to_o the_o crown_n of_o england_n so_o that_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n from_o this_o that_o the_o king_n writ_n run_v not_o in_o ireland_n it_o may_v aswell_o be_v hold_v that_o the_o parliament_n can_v original_o hold_v plea_n of_o thing_n do_v within_o the_o county_n palatine_n of_o chester_n and_o durham_n nor_o within_o the_o five_o port_n and_o wales_n ireland_n be_v part_n of_o the_o realm_n of_o england_n as_o appear_v by_o those_o statute_n as_o well_o as_o any_o of_o they_o this_o be_v make_v good_a by_o constant_a practice_n in_o all_o the_o parment_n roll_v from_o the_o first_o to_o the_o last_o there_o be_v receiver_n and_o tryer_n of_o petition_n appoint_v for_o ireland_n for_o the_o irish_a to_o come_v so_o far_o with_o their_o petition_n for_o justice_n and_o the_o parliament_n not_o to_o have_v cognizance_n when_o from_o time_n to_o time_n they_o have_v in_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o parliament_n appoint_v receiver_n and_o tryer_n of_o they_o be_v a_o thing_n not_o to_o be_v presume_v a_o appeal_n in_o ireland_n bring_v by_o william_n lord_n vescye_n against_o john_n fitz_n thomas_n for_o treasonable_a word_n there_o speak_v before_o any_o judgement_n give_v in_o the_o case_n there_o be_v remove_v into_o the_o parliament_n in_o england_n and_o there_o the_o defendant_n acquit_v as_o appear_v in_o the_o parliament_n plea_n of_o the_o two_o and_o twenty_o year_n of_o edward_n the_o first_o the_o suit_n for_o land_n office_n and_o good_n original_o begin_v here_o be_v many_o and_o if_o question_n grow_v upon_o matter_n in_o fact_n a_o jury_n usual_o order_v to_o try_v it_o and_o the_o verdict_n return_v into_o parliament_n as_o in_o the_o case_n of_o one_o balliben_fw-ge in_fw-ge the_o parliament_n of_o the_o five_o and_o thirty_o year_n of_o edward_n the_o first_o if_o doubt_n arise_v upon_o a_o matter_n tryable_a by_o record_n a_o writ_n go_v to_o the_o officer_n in_o who_o custody_n the_o record_n remain_v to_o certify_v the_o record_n as_o be_v in_o the_o case_n of_o robert_n bagot_n the_o