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england_n bishop_n king_n place_n 2,822 5 4.2630 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A04434 The svmme and svbstance of the conference which, it pleased his excellent Maiestie to haue with the lords, bishops, and other of his clergie, (at vvhich the most of the lordes of the councell were present) in his Maiesties priuy-chamber, at Hampton Court. Ianuary 14. 1603. / Contracted by VVilliam Barlovv, Doctor of Diuinity, and Deane of Chester. Whereunto are added, some copies, (scattered abroad,) vnsauory, and vntrue. Barlow, William, d. 1613. 1604 (1604) STC 1456.5; ESTC S100949 36,617 118

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majesty_n keep_v a_o even_a hand_n will_v that_o the_o word_n disciple_n shall_v be_v omit_v and_o the_o word_n jesus_n say_v to_o be_v print_v in_o a_o different_a letter_n that_o it_o may_v appear_v not_o to_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o text_n the_o three_o objection_n against_o subscripti_fw-la 3_o on_o be_v interogatories_n in_o baptism_n propound_v to_o infant_n which_o be_v a_o profound_a point_n be_v put_v upon_o m._n knewstubs_n to_o pursue_v who_o in_o a_o long_a and_o perplex_a speech_n say_v something_o out_o of_o s._n austen_n that_o baptizare_fw-la be_v credere_fw-la but_o what_o it_o be_v his_o majesty_n plain_o confess_v ego_fw-la non_fw-la intelligo_fw-la and_o ask_v the_o lord_n what_o they_o think_v he_o mean_v it_o seem_v that_o one_o present_a conceive_v he_o for_o he_o stand_v at_o his_o back_n bid_v he_o urge_v that_o punct_a urge_v that_o punct_a that_o be_v a_o good_a point_n my_o lord_n of_o winton_n aim_v at_o his_o meaning_n show_v he_o the_o use_n thereof_o out_o of_o s._n austen_n and_o add_v the_o father_n reason_n for_o it_o qui_fw-la peccavit_fw-la in_o altero_fw-la credat_fw-la in_o altero_fw-la which_o be_v second_v by_o his_o majesty_n who_o it_o please_v for_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o matter_n which_o follow_v himself_o alone_o to_o answer_v and_o just_o may_v he_o appropriate_v it_o to_o himself_o for_o none_o present_a be_v able_a with_o quick_a conceit_n to_o understand_v with_o a_o more_o singular_a dexterity_n to_o refute_v with_o a_o more_o judicious_a resolution_n to_o determine_v than_o his_o majesty_n herein_o be_v more_o admirable_a that_o these_o point_n wherein_o some_o think_v he_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o contrary_a all_o of_o we_o suppose_v he_o to_o have_v be_v but_o a_o stranger_n to_o they_o he_o can_v so_o intelligent_o apprehend_v and_o so_o ready_o argue_v about_o they_o it_o be_v i_o say_v second_v by_o his_o majesty_n by_o reason_n that_o the_o question_n shall_v be_v propound_v to_o the_o party_n who_o it_o 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bishop_n of_o the_o land_n his_o objection_n against_o the_o cross_n consist_v of_o three_o interrogatory_n 1._o whether_o 1_o the_o church_n have_v power_n to_o institute_v a_o external_a significant_a sign_n to_o which_o be_v reply_v first_o that_o he_o do_v mistake_v the_o use_n of_o the_o cross_n with_o we_o which_o be_v not_o use_v in_o baptism_n any_o otherwise_o then_o only_o as_o a_o ceremony_n second_o by_o their_o own_o example_n who_o make_v imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o their_o ordination_n of_o pastor_n to_o be_v a_o sign_n significant_a three_o in_o prayer_n say_v the_o bishop_n of_o winton_n the_o kneel_v on_o the_o ground_n the_o lift_v up_o of_o our_o hand_n the_o knock_n of_o our_o breast_n be_v ceremonic_n significant_a the_o first_o of_o our_o humility_n come_v before_o the_o mighty_a god_n the_o second_o of_o our_o confidence_n and_o hope_n the_o other_o of_o our_o sorrow_n &_o detestation_n of_o our_o sin_n and_o these_o be_v and_o may_v lawful_o be_v use_v last_o m._n deane_n of_o the_o chapel_n remember_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o jew_n who_o unto_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o passeover_n prescribe_v unto_o they_o by_o moses_n have_v as_o the_o rabbin_n witness_v add_v both_o sign_n and_o word_n eat_v sour_a herb_n and_o drink_v wine_n with_o these_o word_n to_o both_o take_v and_o eat_v these_o in_o remembrance_n etc._n etc._n drink_v this_o in_o remembrance_n etc._n etc._n upon_o which_o addition_n and_o tradition_n of_o they_o our_o saviour_n institute_v the_o sacrament_n of_o his_o last_o supper_n in_o celebrate_v it_o with_o the_o same_o word_n and_o after_o the_o same_o manner_n thereby_o approve_v that_o fact_n of_o they_o in_o particular_a and_o general_o that_o a_o church_n may_v institute_v and_o retain_v a_o sign_n significant_a which_o satisfy_v his_o majesty_n exceed_v well_o and_o here_o the_o king_n desire_v to_o have_v himself_o make_v acquaint_v about_o the_o antiquity_n of_o the_o use_n of_o the_o crosse._n which_o doctor_n reynalde_v confess_v to_o have_v be_v ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n time_n but_o this_o be_v the_o difficulty_n to_o prove_v it_o of_o that_o ancient_a use_n in_o baptism_n for_o that_o at_o their_o go_v abroad_o or_o enter_v into_o the_o church_n or_o at_o their_o prayer_n and_o benediction_n it_o be_v use_v by_o the_o ancient_n desire_v no_o great_a proof_n but_o whether_o in_o baptism_n antiquity_n approve_v it_o be_v the_o doubt_n cast_v in_o by_o m._n deane_n of_o sarum_n who_o his_o majesty_n single_v out_o with_o a_o special_a encomion_n that_o he_o be_v a_o man_n well_o travel_v in_o the_o ancient_n which_o doubt_n be_v answer_v obsignatis_fw-la tabulis_fw-la by_o the_o dean_n of_o westminster_n who_o the_o king_n majesty_n upon_o my_o lord_n of_o london_n his_o motion_n will_v to_o speak_v to_o that_o point_n out_o of_o tertullian_n cyprian_n origen_n and_o other_o that_o it_o be_v use_v in_o immortali_fw-la lavacro_fw-la which_o word_n be_v a_o little_a descant_v it_o fall_v from_o one_o i_o think_v it_o be_v my_o lord_n of_o winchester_n obiter_fw-la to_o say_v that_o in_o constantine_n his_o time_n it_o be_v use_v in_o baptism_n what_o quoth_v the_o king_n and_o be_v it_o now_o come_v to_o that_o pass_n that_o we_o shall_v appeach_v constantine_n of_o popery_n and_o superstition_n if_o then_o it_o be_v use_v say_v his_o majesty_n i_o see_v no_o reason_n but_o that_o still_o we_o may_v continue_v it_o m._n knewstubs_n his_o second_o question_n be_v 2_o that_o put_v case_n the_o church_n have_v such_o power_n to_o add_v significant_a sign_n whether_o it_o may_v there_o add_v they_o where_o christ_n have_v already_o ordain_v one_o which_o he_o say_v be_v no_o less_o derogatory_n to_o christ_n institution_n as_o he_o think_v then_o if_o any_o potentate_n of_o this_o land_n shall_v presume_v to_o add_v his_o seal_n unto_o the_o great_a seal_n of_o england_n to_o which_o his_o majesty_n answer_v that_o the_o case_n be_v not_o alike_o for_o that_o 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at_o his_o hand_n in_o give_v we_o such_o a_o king_n as_o since_o christ_n his_o time_n the_o like_a he_o think_v have_v not_o be_v whereunto_o the_o lord_n with_o one_o voice_n do_v yield_v a_o very_a affectionate_a acclamation_n the_o civilian_n present_v confess_v that_o they_o can_v not_o in_o many_o hour_n warning_n have_v so_o judicious_o plain_o and_o accurate_o in_o such_o a_o brief_a describe_v it_o after_o this_o his_o majesty_n commit_v some_o weighty_a matter_n to_o be_v consult_v of_o by_o the_o lord_n and_o bishop_n 1._o for_o excommunication_n in_o cause_n of_o less_o moment_n the_o name_n or_o censure_n to_o be_v alter_v 2._o for_o the_o high_a commission_n the_o quality_n of_o the_o person_n to_o be_v name_v and_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o cause_n to_o be_v handle_v therein_o 3._o for_o recusant_n communicant_n for_o there_o be_v 3._o sort_n say_v his_o majesty_n of_o the_o papist_n some_o 1._o which_o come_v to_o sermon_n but_o not_o to_o service_n and_o prayer_n 2._o some_o which_o come_v to_o both_o they_o but_o not_o to_o the_o communion_n 3._o a_o number_n which_o abstain_v from_o all_o that_o inquiry_n may_v be_v make_v of_o all_o those_o who_o be_v of_o the_o first_o second_o or_o three_o rank_n conclude_v therein_o that_o the_o weak_a be_v to_o be_v inform_v the_o wilful_a to_o be_v punish_v here_o my_o lord_n chancellor_n mention_v the_o writ_n de_fw-fr excommunicato_fw-la capiendo_fw-la which_o his_o hon._n say_v do_v most_o affright_v the_o papist_n of_o all_o other_o punishment_n because_o by_o reason_n of_o that_o they_o be_v many_o way_n disable_v in_o law_n therefore_o he_o will_v take_v order_n if_o his_o m_n tie_v so_o please_v to_o send_v that_o write_v out_o against_o they_o free_o without_o charge_n and_o if_o they_o be_v not_o execute_v his_o lordship_n will_v lay_v the_o undershiriffe_n in_o prison_n and_o to_o this_o the_o king_n assent_v the_o 4._o thing_n to_o be_v consult_v of_o be_v for_o the_o send_n and_o appoint_v of_o preacher_n into_o ireland_n whereof_o say_v his_o majesty_n i_o be_o but_o half_a a_o king_n be_v lord_n over_o their_o body_n but_o their_o soul_n seduce_v by_o popery_n he_o much_o pity_v affirm_v that_o where_o there_o be_v no_o true_a religion_n there_o can_v be_v no_o continue_a obedience_n nor_o for_o ireland_n only_o but_o for_o some_o part_n of_o wales_n and_o the_o northern_a border_n so_o once_o call_v though_o now_o no_o border_n the_o man_n to_o be_v send_v not_o to_o be_v factious_a or_o scandalous_a for_o weed_n will_v be_v weed_n wheresoever_o they_o be_v and_o be_v good_a for_o nothing_o but_o to_o be_v pike_a over_o the_o wall_n therefore_o they_o shall_v single_v out_o man_n of_o sincerity_n of_o knowledge_n of_o courage_n the_o last_o be_v for_o provision_n of_o sufficient_a maintenance_n for_o the_o clergy_n and_o withal_o for_o the_o plant_n of_o a_o learned_a and_o painful_a minister_n in_o every_o parish_n as_o time_n shall_v serve_v to_o every_o of_o those_o his_o majesty_n will_v that_o several_a commissioner_n of_o his_o council_n and_o bishop_n shall_v be_v appoint_v by_o the_o lord_n upon_o the_o dissolve_v the_o assembly_n present_a and_o thus_o have_v confer_v of_o these_o point_n with_o his_o bishop_n and_o refer_v othersome_a of_o they_o as_o you_o hear_v to_o special_a committee_n his_o majesty_n will_v that_o d._n reyn_n and_o his_o associate_n shall_v be_v call_v in_o to_o who_o he_o present_o signify_v what_o be_v do_v and_o cause_v the_o alteration_n or_o explication_n before_o name_v to_o be_v read_v unto_o they_o a_o little_a dispute_v there_o be_v about_o the_o word_n in_o marriage_n with_o my_o body_n i_o thou_o worship_n &_o argue_v no_o other_o thing_n to_o be_v mean_v by_o the_o word_n worship_n then_o that_o which_o s._n paul_n will_v 1._o cor._n 7._o 4._o the_o man_n thereby_o acknowledge_v that_o hereby_o he_o worship_v his_o wife_n in_o that_o he_o appropriate_v his_o body_n unto_o her_o alone_a nor_o any_o more_o then_o that_o which_o s._n peter_n councel_v 1._o peter_n 3._o 7._o that_o the_o man_n shall_v give_v honour_n to_o his_o wife_n as_o to_o the_o weak_a vessel_n yet_o for_o their_o satisfaction_n shall_v be_v put_v in_o with_o my_o body_n i_o thou_o worship_n &_o honour_n if_o it_o be_v think_v fit_a &_o so_o his_o m_n tie_v shut_v up_o all_o with_o a_o most_o pithy_a exhortation_n to_o both_o side_n for_o unity_n persuade_v diligence_n in_o each_o man_n place_n without_o violence_n on_o the_o one_o party_n or_o disobedience_n on_o the_o other_o and_o will_v they_o to_o deal_v with_o their_o friend_n abroad_o to_o that_o purpose_n for_o his_o majesty_n fear_v and_o have_v some_o experience_n that_o many_o of_o they_o be_v ticklish_a and_o humorous_a nor_o that_o only_o but_o labourer_n to_o pervert_v other_o to_o their_o fancy_n he_o now_o see_v that_o the_o exception_n against_o the_o communion_n book_n be_v matter_n of_o weakness_n therefore_o if_o the_o person_n reluctant_a be_v discreet_a they_o will_v be_v win_v betimes_o &_o by_o good_a persuasion_n if_o undiscreete_a better_a they_o be_v remove_v for_o many_o by_o their_o factious_a behaviour_n be_v drive_v to_o be_v papist_n now_o then_o of_o their_o fruit_n he_o shall_v judge_v they_o obedience_n and_o humility_n be_v mark_n of_o honest_a and_o good_a man_n those_o he_o expect_v of_o they_o and_o by_o their_o example_n and_o persuasion_n of_o all_o their_o sort_n abroad_o for_o if_o hereafter_o thing_n be_v thus_o well_o order_v they_o shall_v be_v unquiet_a neither_o his_o majesty_n nor_o the_o state_n have_v any_o cause_n to_o think_v well_o of_o they_o to_o which_o they_o all_o give_v their_o unanimous_a assent_n take_v exception_n against_o nothing_o that_o be_v say_v or_o do_v but_o promise_v to_o perform_v all_o duty_n to_o the_o bishop_n as_o their_o reverend_a father_n and_o to_o join_v with_o they_o against_o the_o common_a adversary_n &_o for_o the_o quiet_a of_o the_o church_n only_o m._n chatterton_n of_o emanuel_n college_n kneel_v request_v that_o the_o wear_n of_o the_o surplis_n and_o the_o use_n of_o the_o cross_n in_o baptism_n may_v not_o be_v urge_v upon_o some_o honest_a godly_a and_o painful_a minister_n in_o some_o part_n of_o lancashire_n who_o fear_v that_o if_o they_o shall_v be_v force_v unto_o they_o many_z who_o they_o have_v win_v to_o the_o gospel_n will_v slide_v back_o and_o revolt_v unto_o popery_n again_o and_o particular_o instance_a the_o vicar_n of_o ratesdale_n he_o can_v not_o have_v light_n upon_o a_o worse_a for_o not_o many_o year_n before_o he_o be_v prove_v before_o my_o lord_n archbishop_n as_o his_o grace_n there_o testify_v and_o my_o l._n chancellor_n by_o his_o unseemly_a and_o unreverent_a usage_n of_o the_o eucharist_n deal_v the_o bread_n out_o of_o a_o basket_n every_o man_n put_v in_o his_o hand_n &_o take_v out_o a_o piece_n to_o have_v make_v many_o loath_a the_o holy_a communion_n and_o whole_o refuse_v to_o come_v to_o church_n his_o majesty_n answer_v that_o it_o be_v not_o his_o purpose_n and_o he_o dare_v answer_v for_o the_o bishop_n that_o it_o be_v not_o their_o intent_n present_o and_o out_o of_o hand_n to_o enforce_v those_o thing_n without_o fatherly_a admonition_n conference_n and_o persuasion_n premise_v but_o wish_v that_o it_o shall_v be_v examine_v if_o those_o man_n by_o their_o pain_n and_o preach_v have_v convert_v any_o from_o popery_n and_o be_v withal_o man_n quiet_a of_o disposition_n honest_a of_o life_n and_o diligent_a in_o their_o call_n if_o so_o letter_n shall_v be_v write_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o chester_n of_o who_o his_o majesty_n give_v a_o very_a good_a testimony_n to_o that_o purpose_n if_o not_o but_o that_o they_o be_v of_o a_o turbulent_a and_o opposite_a spirit_n both_o they_o and_o other_o of_o that_o unquiet_a humour_n shall_v present_o be_v enforce_v to_o a_o conformity_n and_o so_o for_o that_o point_n it_o be_v conclude_v that_o my_o lord_n archbishop_n shall_v write_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o chester_n his_o letter_n for_o that_o matter_n my_o lord_n of_o london_n reply_v that_o if_o this_o be_v grant_v the_o copy_n of_o these_o letter_n especial_o if_o his_o majesty_n have_v write_v as_o at_o first_o it_o be_v purpose_v will_v fly_v over_o all_o england_n and_o then_o other_o for_o their_o confine_n will_v make_v the_o same_o request_n and_o so_o no_o fruit_n shall_v follow_v of_o this_o conference_n but_o thing_n will_v be_v worse_o than_o they_o be_v before_o therefore_o he_o humble_o desire_v his_o majesty_n that_o a_o time_n shall_v be_v limit_v within_o which_o compass_n they_o shall_v conform_v themselves_o to_o which_o his_o majesty_n ready_o assent_v &_o will_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o diocese_n shall_v set_v they_o down_o the_o time_n and_o