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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
england_n	bishop_n	king_n	place_n	2,822	5	4.2630	3	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A04434	The svmme and svbstance of the conference which, it pleased his excellent Maiestie to haue with the lords, bishops, and other of his clergie, (at vvhich the most of the lordes of the councell were present) in his Maiesties priuy-chamber, at Hampton Court. Ianuary 14. 1603. / Contracted by VVilliam Barlovv, Doctor of Diuinity, and Deane of Chester. Whereunto are added, some copies, (scattered abroad,) vnsauory, and vntrue.	Barlow, William, d. 1613.	1604 (1604)	STC 1456.5; ESTC S100949	36,617	118

any Then hee desireth that according to certaine Prouincial Constitutions they of the Clergy might haue meetinges once euery three weekes first in Rurall Deanries and therein to haue Prophecying according as the Reuerend Father Archbishoppe Grindal and other Bishops desired of her late Maiestie 2. that such things as could not be resolued vpon there might bee referred to the Archdeacons Uisitation and so 3. from thence to the Episcopall Synode where the Bishoppe with his Presbyteri should determine all such pointes as before could not be decided At which speech his Maiestie was somewhat stirred yet which is admirable in him without passion or shewe thereof thinking that they aymed at a Scottish Presbytery which saith hee as well agreeth with a Monarchy as God and the Diuell Then Iack and Tom and Will and Dick shall meete and at their pleasures censure me and my Councell and all our proceedings Then VVill shall stand vp and say it must bee thus then Dick shall reply and say nay mary but wee will haue it thus And therefore here I must once reiterate my former speech Le Roy s'auisera Stay I pray you for one seauen yeares before you demaunde that of mee and if then you finde mee purseye and fat and my winde pipes stuffed I will perhaps hearken to you for let that gouernment bee once vp I am sure I shall bee kept in breath then shall wee all of vs haue worke enough both our hands full But Doctor Reyn. til you finde that I grow lazy let that alone And here because D. Reyn. had twise before obtruded the Kings Supremacie 1. In the Article concerning the Pope 2. in the point of Subscription his Maiestie at those times saide nothing but now growing to an end he saide I shall speake of one matter more yet somewhat out of order but it skilleth not Doctor Rein. quoth the K. you haue often spoken for my Supremacie and it is well but knowe you any here or any elsewhere who like of the present Gouernement Ecclesiasticall that finde fault or dislike my Supremacie D. Rein. saide no why then saith his Maiestie I will tell you a tale After that the Religion restored by King Edwarde the sixt was soone ouerthrowne by the succession of Queene Marie here in England wee in Scotland felt the effect of it Whereupon Mas. Knoxe writes to the Queene Regent of whome without flattery I may say that she was a vertuous and moderate Lady telling her that she was Supreme head of the Church and charged her as shee would aunswere it before Gods Tribunall to take care of Christ his Euangil and of suppressing the Popish Prelates who vvithstoode the same But how long trovv yee did this continue euen so long till by her authority the popish Bishops were repressed hee himselfe and his adherents vvere brought in and well setled and by these meanes made strong enough to vndertake the matters of Reformation thēselues Then loe they began to make small account of her Supremacy nor vvould longer rest vpon her authoritie but tooke the cause into their ovvne hand according to that more light wherewith they were illuminated made a further reformation of Religion How they vsed that poore Lady my mother is not vnknowne and vvith griefe I may remember it vvho because shee had not beene otherwise instructed did desire only a priuate Chappell vvherein to serue God after her manner with some few selected persons but her Supremacy was not sufficient to obtaine it at their hands And howe they dealt with me in my Minoritie you all know it was not done secretly thogh I would I cannot conceale it I will apply it thus And then putting his hand to his hat his Maiestie saide my Lordes the Bishops I may thanke you that these men doe thus pleade for my Supremacie They thinke they cannot make their party good against you but by appealing vnto it as if you or some that adhere vnto you were not well affected towardes it But if once you were out and they in place I knowe what would become of my Supremacie No Bishop no King as before I sayd Neither doe I thus speake at randon without ground for I haue obserued since my comming into England that some Preachers before me can be content to pray for Iames King of England Scotland Fraunce and Ireland defendor of the faith but as for Supreme Gouernour in all causes and ouerall persons as well Ecclesiasticall as Ciuill they passe that ouer with silence what out they haue beene of I after learned After this asking them if they had any more to obiect and D. Reyn. aunswering Noe his Maiestie appointed the next Wednesday for both parties to meete before him and rising from his Chaire as hee was going to his inner Chamber If this bee all quoth he that they haue to say I shall make thē conforme themselues or I will harrie them out of the land or else do worse And this was the Summe of the second dayes Conference which raised such an admiration in the Lordes in respect of the King his singular readinesse and exact knowledge that one of them sayde hee was fully perswaded his Maiestie spake by the instinct of the spirite of God My L. Cecill acknowledged that very much we are bound to God who had giuen vs a King of an vnderstanding heart My Lord Chancelor passing out of the Priuy-Chamber said vnto the Deane of Chester standing by the dore I haue often hearde and read that Rex est mixta persona cum sacerdote but I neuer saw the truth thereof till this day Surely whosoeuer heard his Maiesty might iustly thinke that title did more properly fitte him which Eunapius gaue to that famous Rhetoritian in saying that he was 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Liuing Library and a walking Study Finis secundae diei THE THIRD DAYES Conference VPon Wednesday Ianuary 18. all the Bishops afore named attended at the Court and the Deanes who were all called into the Priuie Chamber and who so else my Lord Archbishop appointed for such was his Maiesties pleasure whereuppon the Knightes and Doctors of the Arches viz. Sir Daniel Dunne Sir Thomas Crompton Sir Richard Swale Sir Iohn Bennet and D. Drury entred As soone as the King was set the Lord Archbishoppe presented vnto him a note of those points which his Maiesty had referred to their consideration vpon the first day and the alteration or rather explanation of them in our Liturgie 1. Absolution or Remission of sinnes in the Rubrike of Absolution 2. In priuate Baptisme the lawfull Minister present 3. Examination with Confirmation of Children 4. Iesus sayd to them twise to bee put into the Dominicall Gospels in stead of Iesus sayd to his Disciples His Maiestie here taking the Common Prayer Booke and turning to Priuate Baptisme willed that where the wordes were in the Rubrike the second Paragraph They Baptize not Children Novv it should be thus read They cause not Children to be baptized and

shewed but that it was an Institution Apostolicall and one of the particular pointes of the Apostles Catechisme set downe and named in expresse wordes Hebr. 6. 2. and so did M. Caluin expound that very place who wished earnestly the restitution thereof in those reformed Churches where it had beene abolished Vpon which place the Bishop of Carlell also insisted and vrged it both grauely and learnedly His Maiestie called for the Bible read the place of the Hebrewes and approued the exposition Something also the Bishop of Durham noted out of the Gospell of S. Mathew for the imposition of handes vppon children The conclusion was for the fuller explanation that wee make it not a Sacrament or a corroboration to a former Sacrament that it should bee considered of by their Lordshippes whether it might not without alteration whereof his Maiestie was still very wary bee intituled an Examination with a Confirmation Next in order was the point of Absolution which the Lord Archbishop cleared from all abuse or superstition as it is vsed in our Church of England reading vnto his Maiestie both the Confession in the beginning of the Communion book and the Absolution following it wherein saith he the Minister doth nothing else but pronounce an Absolution in generall His Highnesse perused them both in the booke it selfe liking and approuing them finding it to be very true which my Lord Archbishop said but the Bishop of London stepping forward added it becōmeth vs to deale plainely with your Maiestie there is also in the Communion booke another more particular and personall forme of Absolution prescribed to be vsed in the order for the Visitation of the sicke this the King required to see and whilest Maister Deane of the Chappell was turning to it the sayd Bishop aledged that not onely the confessions of Augustia Boheme Saxon which he there cited doe retaine and allow it but that Maister Caluin did also approue such a generall kinde of Confession and Absolution as the Church of England vseth and withall did very well like of those which are priuate for so hee termes them The sayd particular Absolution in the Common prayer booke beeing read his Maiestie exceedingly well approued it adding that it was Apostolicall and a very godly ordinance in that it was giuen in the name of Christ to one that desired it and vpon the clearing of his conscience The conclusion was that it should be consulted of by the Bishops whether vnto the Rubrike of the generall Absolution these wordes Remission of sinnes might not be added for explanation sake In the third place the Lord Archbishop proceeded to speake of Priuate Baptisme shewing his Maiestie that the administration of Baptisme by women and Lay-persons was not allowed in the practise of the Church but enquired of by Bishoppes in their Visitations and censured neither doe the wordes in the booke inferre any such meaning whereunto the King excepted vrging and pressing the wordes of the Booke that they could not but intend a permission and suffering of women and priuate persons to baptize Here the Bishoppe of Worcester said that indeed the wordes were doubtfull and might bee pressed to that meaning but yet it seemed by the contrarie practise of our Church censuring women in this case that the compilers of the Booke did not so intend them and yet propounded them ambiguously because otherwise perhaps the Booke would not haue then passed in the Parliament and for this coniecture as I remember he cited the testimony of my Lord Archbishoppe of Yorke whereunto the Bishop of London replyed that those learned and reuerend men who framed the Booke of Common Prayer entended not by ambiguous termes to deceiue any but did indeede by those wordes entend a permission of priuate persons to baptize in case of necessitie whereof their letters were witnesses some partes whereof hee then read and withall declared that the same was agreeable to the practise of the auncient Church vrging to that purpose both Actes 2. where 3000. were baptized in one day which for the Apostles alone to doe was impossible at least improbable and besides the Apostles there were then no Bishoppes or Priestes And also thee authoritie of Tertullian and Saint Ambrose in the fourth to the Ephesians plaine in that point laying also open the absurdities and impieties of their opinion who thinke there is no necessitie of Baptisme which word Necessitie he so pressed not as if God without Baptisme could not saue the child but the case put that the state of the Infant dying vnbaptized being vncertaine and to God only known but if it dye baptized there is an euident assurance that it is saued who is hee that hauing any Religion in him would not speedily by any meanes procure his Child to be baptized and rather ground his action vpon Christs promise then his omission thereof vppon Gods secret iudgement His Maiestie replied first to that place of the Actes that it was an Acte extraordinary neither is it sound reasoning from thinges done before a Church bee setled and grounded vnto those which are to be performed in a Church stablished and flourishing That hee also maintained the necessitie of Baptisme and alwayes thought that the place of Saint Iohn Nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua c. was ment of the Sacrament of Baptisme and that hee had so defenced it against some Ministers in Scotland and it may seeme strange to you my Lords saith his Maiestie that I who now think you in England giue too much to Baptism did 14. moneths ago in Scotland argue with my Diuines there for ascribing too litle to that holy Sacrament In somuch that a pert Minister asked me if I thought Baptism so necessary that if it were omitted the child should be damned I answered him no but if you being called to baptize the child though priuately should refuse to come I think you shall be damned But this necessitie of Baptisme his Maiestie so expounded that it was necessarie to be had where it might be lawfully had id est ministred by lawfull Ministers by whom alone by no priuate person hee thought it might not in any case be administred and yet vtterly disliked all rebaptization although either women or Laikes had baptized Heere the Bishop of VVinchester spake very learnedly and earnestly in that point affirming that the denying of priuate persons in cases of necessitie to baptize were to crosse all antiquitie seeing that it had bene the ancient and common practize of the Church When Ministers at such times could not be got and that it was also a rule agreed vpon among Diuines that the Minister is not of the Essence of the Sacrament His Maiestie answered though hee be not of the Essence of the Sacrament yet is he of the Essence of the right and lawfull ministrie of the Sacrament taking for his ground the commission of Christ to his Disciples Mat. 28. 20. Go preach and baptize The issue was a consultation whether into the

Maiestie keeping an euen hand willed that the worde Disciples shoulde bee omitted and the wordes Iesus said to bee Printed in a different letter that it might appeare not to be a part of the text The third obiection against Subscripti on were Interogatories in baptisme propounded to Infantes which being a profound point was put vpon M. Knewstubs to pursue who in a long and perplexed speech saide something out of S. Austen that baptizare was credere but what it was his Maiestie plainely confessed Ego non intelligo and asked the Lords what they thought hee meant it seemed that one present conceiued him for hee standing at his backe bid him vrge that punct vrge that punct that is a good point my Lord of VVinton aiming at his meaning shewed him the vse thereof out of S. Austen and added the Fathers reason for it Qui peccauit in altero credat in altero which was seconded by his Maiestie whome it pleased for the rest of the matters which followed him selfe alone to answere and iustly might hee appropriate it to himselfe for none present were able with quicker conceit to vnderstand with a more singular dexteritie to refute with a more iudicious resolution to determine then his Maiestie herein being more admirable that these points wherein some thought him preiudiciall to the contrarie all of vs supposed him to haue beene but a stranger to them he could so intelligently apprehend and so readily argue about them it was I say seconded by his Maiesty by reason that the question should bee propounded to the party whome it principally concerned secondly by example of himselfe to whom interrogatories were propounded when he was crowned in his infancie king of Scotland And here his Maiestie as hereafter at the end of euery obiection hee did asked them whether they had any more to say M. Knewstubs tooke exceptions to the Crosse in Baptisme which were in number two First the offence of Weake brethren grounded vpon the words of Saint Paule Rom. 14. and 1. Cor. 8. viz the Consciences of the weake not to bee offended which places his excellent Maiestie aunswered most acutely beginning with that generall rule of the Fathers Distingue tempora concordabunt Scripturae shewing heere the difference of those times and ours then a Church not fully planted nor settled but ours long stablished and flourishing then Christians newely called from Paganisme and not throughly grounded which is not the case of this Church seeing that Heathenish doctrine for manie yeares hath beene hence abandoned Secondly with a question vnanswerable asking them how long they woulde bee weake whether 45. yeares were not sufficient for them to growe strong 3. Who they were that pretended this weaknesse for wee saith the King require not now Subscription of Laikes Idiots but Preachers and Ministers who are not still I trow to be fed with milke but are enabled to feede others 4. That is was to bee doubted some of them were strong enough if not headstrong and howsoeuer they in this case pretended weakenesse yet some in whose behalfe they nowe spake thought themselues able to teach him and all the Bishops of the land His obiection against the Crosse consisted of three Interrogatories 1. Whether the Church had power to institute an externall significant signe to which was replyed first that hee did mistake the vse of the Crosse with vs which was not vsed in Baptisme any otherwise then onely as a ceremonie Secondly by their owne example who make imposition of handes in their ordination of Pastors to be a signe significant Thirdly in prayer saieth the Bishoppe of Winton the kneeling on the grounde the lifting vp of our handes the knocking of our breastes are Ceremonics significant the first of our humilitie comming before the mightie God the second of our confidence and hope the other of our sorrow detestation of our sins and these are and may lawfully bee vsed Lastly M. Deane of the Chappell remembred the practise of the Iewes who vnto the institution of the Passeouer prescribed vnto them by Moses had as the Rabbines witnesse added both signes and words eating sowre hearbs and drinking wine with these words to both Take and eate these in remembrance c. Drinke this in remembrance c. Vpon which addition and tradition of theirs our Sauiour instituted the Sacrament of his last Supper in celebrating it with the same wordes and after the same manner thereby approuing that fact of theirs in particular and generally that a Church may institute and retaine a signe significant which satisfied his Maiestie exceeding well And here the king desired to haue himselfe made acquainted about the antiquitie of the vse of the Crosse. Which Doctor Reynaldes confessed to haue beene euer since the Apostles times but this was the difficulty to proue it of that auncient vse in Baptisme For that at their going abroad or entering into the Church or at their Prayers and benedictions it was vsed by the Auncients desired no greate proofe but whether in Baptisme Antiquitie approued it was the doubt cast in by M. Deane of Sarum whome his Maiestie singled out with a speciall Encomion that hee was a man well trauelled in the Auncients which doubt was answered obsignatis tabulis by the Deane of Westminster whome the Kings Maiestie vpon my Lord of London his motion willed to speake to that poynt out of Tertullian Cyprian Origen and others that it was vsed in Immortali lauacro which wordes being a little descanted it fell from one I thinke it was my Lord of VVinchester obiter to say that in Constantine his time it was vsed in Baptisme What quoth the King and is it now come to that passe that wee shall appeach Constantine of Popery and superstition if then it were vsed saith his Maiesty I see no reason but that still wee may continue it M. Knewstubs his second question was that put case the Church had such power to adde significant signes whether it might there adde them where Christ had already ordayned one which hee saide was no lesse derogatorie to Christes institution as he thought then if any Potentate of this land should presume to adde his seale vnto the great seale of England To which his Maiesty answered that the case was not alike for that no signe or thing was added to the Sacrament which was fully and perfectly finished before any mention of the Crosse is made for confirmation whereof hee willed the place to be read Lastly if the Church had that power also yet the greatest scruple to their Conscience was how farre such an ordinance of the Church was to binde them without impeaching their Christian Libertie whereat the King as it seemed was much moued and tolde him hee would not argue that point with him but aunswere therein as Kinges are wont to speake in Parliament Le Roy J'auiserá adding withall that it smelled very rankly of Anabaptisme comparing it vnto the vsage of a beardlesse boy

at his handes in giuing vs such a King as since Christ his time the like he thought hath not beene whereunto the Lords with one voice did yeeld a verie affectionate acclamation The Ciuilians present confessed that they could not in many houres warning haue so iudiciously plainely and accurately in such a briefe described it After this his Maiesty committed some weightie matters to be consulted of by the Lords and Bishops 1. for Excommunication in causes of lesse moment the name or censure to bee altered 2. for the High Commission the qualitie of the persons to be named and the nature of the causes to be handled therein 3. for recusant Communicants for there are 3. sortes saith his Maiestie of the Papistes some 1. which come to Sermons but not to seruice and prayer 2. some which come to both them but not to the Communion 3. a number which abstaine from all That inquirie might bee made of al those who were of the first second or third ranke concluding therein that the weake were to be informed the wilfull to bee punished Here my Lord Chancelor mentioned the writ de Excōmunicato capiendo which his Hon. saide did most affright the Papists of al other punishmēts because by reasō of that they were many wayes disabled in law therfore he would take order if his M tie so pleased to sēd that writ out against them freely without charge and if they were not executed his Lordship would lay the Undershiriffes in prison and to this the King assented The 4. thing to be consulted of was for the sending and appointing of Preachers into Ireland whereof saieth his Maiestie I am but halfe a King being Lord ouer their bodies but their soules seduced by Popery he much pittied affirming that where there is no true Religion there can be no continued obedience nor for Ireland onely but for some parts of Wales and the Northerne borders so once called though now no borders the men to bee sent not to be factious or scandalous for weeds will be weedes wheresoeuer they be and are good for nothing but to bee piked ouer the wall therefore they should single out men of sinceritie of knowledge of courage The last was for prouision of sufficient maintenance for the Clergy and withall for the planting of a learned and painfull minister in euery parish as time shall serue To euery of those his Maiestie willed that seuerall Cōmissioners of his Councell and bishops should be appointed by the Lords vpon the dissoluing the assembly present And thus hauing conferred of these points with his Bishops and referred othersome of them as you heard to speciall Committies his Maiestie willed that D. Reyn and his associates should bee called in to whom he presently signified what was done and caused the alterations or explications before named to bee read vnto them A little disputing there was about the wordes in mariage With my body I thee worship arguing no other thing to be ment by the word Worship then that which S. Paule willeth 1. Cor. 7. 4. the man thereby acknowledging that hereby he worshippeth his wife in that he appropriateth his body vnto her alone nor any more then that which S. Peter councelleth 1. Peter 3. 7. That the man should giue Honour to his Wife as to the weaker vessell yet for their satisfaction shold be put in With my body I thee worship honor if it were thoght fit so his M tie shut vp all with a most pithy exhortation to both sides for vnity perswading diligēce in each mans place without violence on the one party or disobedience on the other and willed them to deale with their friendes abroad to that purpose for his Maiestie feared and had some experience that many of them were ticklish and humorous nor that onely but labourers to peruert others to their fancies hee now saw that the exceptions against the Communion Booke were matters of weakenes therfore if the persons reluctant be discreet they will be wonne betimes by good perswasions if vndiscreete better they were remoued for many by their factious behauiour were driuen to be Papists Now then of their fruites he shall iudge them Obedience and Humilitie being markes of honest and good men Those he expected of them and by their example and perswasion of all their sorte abroade for if hereafter thinges being thus well ordered they should be vnquiet neither his Maiestie nor the state had any cause to thinke well of them To which they all gaue their vnanimous assent taking exception against nothing that was saide or done but promised to performe all dutie to the Bishoppes as their Reuerend fathers and to ioyne with them against the common aduersaries for the quiet of the Church Onely M. Chatterton of Emanuel Colledge kneeling requested that the wearing of the Surplis and the vse of the Crosse in Baptisme might not be vrged vpō some honest godly and painefull ministers in some partes of Lancashire who feared that if they should be forced vnto them many whome they had wonne to the Gospell would slide backe and reuolte vnto Popery againe and particularly instanced the Vicar of Ratesdale hee coulde not haue light vppon a worse for not many years before he was proued before my Lord Archbishop as his Grace there testified and my L. Chancelor by his vnseemely and vnreuerent vsage of the Eucharist dealing the bread out of a Basket euery man putting in his hand taking out a peece to haue made many loath the holy Communion and wholy refuse to come to Church his Maiesty aunswered that it was not his purpose and hee durst answere for the Bishops that it was not their intent presently and out of hād to inforce those things without fatherly admonitions conferences and perswasions premised but wished that it should be examined if those men by their paines and preaching had conuerted any from Popery and were withall men quiet of disposition honest of life and diligent in their calling if so letters should be written to the Bishoppe of Chester of whome his Maiestie gaue a very good testimony to that purpose if not but that they were of a turbulent and opposite spirite both they and others of that vnquiet humor should presently be enforced to a conformity and so for that point it was concluded that my Lord Archbishop should write to the Bishop of Chester his letters for that matter My Lord of London replyeth that if this were graunted the copy of these letters especially if his Maiestie had writtē as at first it was purposed would flye ouer al England and then other for their confines would make the same request and so no fruite should follow of this Conference but thinges would bee worse then they were before Therefore he humbly desired his Maiesty that a time shoulde bee limited vvithin vvhich compasse they should conforme themselues To vvhich his Maiestie readily assented willed that the Bishoppe of the Diocesse should set them dovvne the time and