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england_n act_n church_n zion_n 22 3 10.0850 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A30189 An answer to two treatises of Mr. Iohn Can, the leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam the former called, A necessitie of separation from the Church of England, proved by the Nonconformists principles : the other, A stay against straying : wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson, he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the ministers of the Church of England ... / by the late learned, laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ, John Ball. Ball, John, 1585-1640.; Ashe, Simeon, d. 1662. 1642 (1642) Wing B558; ESTC R3127 281,779 264

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what_o if_o you_o do_v not_o read_v that_o diotrephes_n be_v a_o unlawful_a and_o antichristian_a minister_n you_o read_v that_o he_o usurp_v over_o the_o faithful_a hinder_v the_o due_a execution_n of_o church-censure_n abuse_a excommunication_n prate_v against_o the_o brethren_n and_o practise_v a_o false_a government_n and_o if_o the_o want_n of_o discipline_n or_o neglect_n of_o due_a execution_n prove_v a_o church_n to_o be_v no_o church_n the_o faithful_a in_o that_o society_n be_v bind_v to_o separate_v if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o the_o power_n of_o government_n at_o this_o time_n if_o we_o may_v believe_v you_o or_o receive_v your_o position_n they_o be_v no_o church_n if_o they_o have_v power_n in_o their_o hand_n and_o suffer_v it_o to_o be_v abuse_v their_o sin_n be_v the_o great_a and_o if_o you_o take_v a_o view_n of_o your_o deal_n in_o this_o or_o other_o particular_n vilify_n what_o you_o be_v not_o able_a to_o confute_v and_o wrest_v man_n word_n contrary_a to_o their_o plain_a meaning_n if_o your_o paper_n blush_v not_o i_o can_v hardly_o think_v but_o your_o conscience_n will_v smite_v sect_n ii_o if_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v not_o christ_n key_n 154._o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 154._o she_o be_v not_o he_o say_v mr_n d._n but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v not_o christ_n key_n say_v mr_n brightman_n and_o 111._o and_o zion_n plea._n 111._o other_o therefore_o she_o be_v not_o his_o house_n and_o consequent_o to_o be_v separate_v from_o answer_n your_o former_a reason_n out_o of_o mr_n d._n i_o pass_v over_o because_o they_o have_v be_v answer_v already_o and_o be_v here_o thrust_v in_o to_o no_o purpose_n but_o only_o to_o cover_v the_o insufficiency_n of_o your_o reply_n his_o answer_n be_v the_o want_n of_o discipline_n though_o a_o integrall_a part_n be_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n of_o separation_n this_o 153._o this_o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a p._n 152_o 153._o you_o offer_v not_o to_o disprove_v by_o any_o substantial_a reason_n but_o with_o rail_v and_o reproach_n to_o disgrace_n wherein_o whether_o you_o more_o wound_v your_o own_o conscience_n or_o hurt_v your_o adversary_n be_v judge_v yourself_o 13.21_o yourself_o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 212._o 1_o pet._n 3.9_o rom._n 13.21_o you_o say_v true_o it_o be_v a_o christian_a part_n not_o to_o render_v rebuke_n for_o rebuke_n and_o a_o thousand_o time_n better_a be_v it_o to_o sustain_v even_o a_o legion_n of_o reproach_n than_o for_o a_o man_n by_o turn_v though_o but_o one_o to_o give_v cause_n of_o suspicion_n that_o evil_a have_v get_v some_o part_n of_o conquest_n over_o he_o but_o if_o you_o look_v into_o your_o own_o writing_n you_o shall_v find_v they_o stuff_v with_o insolent_a boast_n scornful_a taunt_n and_o reproach_n unbeseeming_a your_o place_n person_n and_o a_o good_a cause_n i_o dare_v say_v all_o the_o nonconformist_n that_o ever_o write_v in_o the_o cause_n of_o discipline_n 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matter_n not_o another_o stratagem_n 153._o stratagem_n can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 153._o you_o put_v in_o practice_n in_o the_o same_o place_n not_o very_o commendable_a you_o will_v seem_v to_o confute_v the_o d._n out_o of_o himself_o what_o say_v you_o if_o it_o appear_v that_o mr_n d._n argument_n do_v lead_v rather_o to_o separation_n and_o that_o he_o speak_v one_o thing_n and_o practise_v another_o will_v not_o this_o be_v a_o strange_a sight_n especial_o to_o himself_o now_o whether_o this_o be_v so_o we_o will_v here_o try_v by_o some_o reason_n in_o his_o own_o mood_n and_o figure_n but_o though_o the_o mood_n and_o figure_n be_v his_o the_o reason_n be_v your_o own_o and_o not_o he_o and_o the_o conclusion_n unjust_o draw_v from_o the_o premise_n as_o the_o d._n answer_v and_o we_o have_v show_v before_o perhaps_o in_o war_n stratagem_n may_v be_v of_o use_n but_o in_o the_o cause_n of_o god_n such_o cunning_a device_n be_v dangerous_a symptom_n this_o i_o note_v to_o entreat_v your_o serious_a reexamination_n of_o what_o you_o have_v do_v and_o now_o i_o come_v to_o the_o argument_n here_o propound_v whereunto_o i_o make_v answer_n as_o you_o relate_v it_o for_o i_o have_v not_o the_o d._n book_n to_o search_v out_o what_o he_o have_v write_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n be_v twofold_a conciovalis_fw-la &_o judicialis_fw-la as_o it_o be_v usual_o call_v the_o first_o consist_v in_o the_o preach_n of_o the_o gospel_n wherein_o the_o kingdom_n of_o heaven_n be_v open_v to_o the_o penitent_a sin_n remit_v life_n promise_v and_o heaven_n shut_v to_o the_o obstinate_a which_o be_v the_o sword_n and_o the_o sceptre_n of_o christ_n whereby_o he_o save_v his_o people_n 1.16_o 2_o cor._n 1.21_o 2_o cor._n 10.4_o isa_n 11.4_o rom._n 1.16_o and_o conquer_v his_o enemy_n beat_v down_o every_o strong_a hold_n p●ireeth_v to_o the_o division_n of_o foul_a and_o spirit_n and_o of_o the_o joint_n and_o marrow_n and_o judge_v the_o very_a cogitation_n and_o thought_n of_o the_o heart_n these_o effect_n christ_n execute_v by_o his_o word_n even_o when_o it_o be_v not_o assist_v by_o the_o 9_o the_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v to_o remove_v the_o wicked_a &_o irrepentant_a from_o participation_n of_o the_o lord_n supper_n lest_o by_o sacrilegious_a presume_v to_o violate_v that_o table_n the_o ungodly_a shall_v condemn_v themselves_o and_o defile_v other_o bilson_n perpet_n gov_fw-mi cap._n 9_o discipline_n speak_v of_o now_o if_o it_o be_v right_o understand_v the_o church_n of_o god_n can_v be_v without_o this_o key_n for_o the_o church_n be_v gather_v by_o the_o word_n and_o be_v a_o company_n or_o society_n which_o have_v receive_v the_o word_n in_o profession_n at_o least_o and_o do_v possess_v it_o and_o among_o who_o it_o dwell_v the_o judicial_a power_n of_o the_o 52._o the_o excommunication_n be_v a_o mere_a spiritual_a punishment_n &_o reach_v no_o further_o by_o god_n word_n than_o to_o take_v from_o offender_n the_o remission_n of_o their_o sin_n by_o want_v the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n until_o they_o repent_v bilson_n christian._n part_n 3._o pag._n 52._o key_n be_v the_o power_n of_o government_n which_o consist_v principal_o in_o the_o right_a order_n and_o dispensation_n of_o church_n censure_n and_o so_o of_o the_o manner_n and_o necessity_n of_o all_o man_n which_o agree_v not_o to_o any_o one_o member_n nor_o to_o the_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a nor_o to_o any_o one_o singular_a governor_n but_o to_o the_o ecclesiastical_a senate_n yet_o with_o due_a respect_n have_v to_o the_o community_n of_o the_o faithful_a in_o the_o first_o sense_n the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n 123._o key_n cyp._n lib._n 1._o epist_n 3._o i_o hardly_o persuade_v the_o people_n yea_o i_o be_o force_v to_o wrest_v it_o from_o they_o before_o they_o will_v suffer_v such_o to_o be_v admit_v bilson_n perpet_n gov_fw-mi c._n 9_o great_a reason_n have_v those_o godly_a father_n to_o see_v the_o whole_a church_n satisfy_v before_o they_o release_v the_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n etc._n etc._n and_o so_o do_v they_o show_v not_o what_o right_n the_o multitude_n have_v to_o sit_v judge_n with_o the_o bishop_n but_o what_o ●●e_v themselves_o have_v to_o remove_v from_o the_o people_n all_o occasion_n of_o stumble_v id._n pag._n 113._o if_o you_o take_v excommunication_n for_o remove_v the_o unruly_a from_o the_o civil_a society_n of_o the_o faithful_a until_o they_o conform_v themselves_o unto_o a_o more_o christian_a course_n of_o life_n i_o be_o not_o altogether_o averse_a that_o the_o whole_a church_n shall_v concur_v in_o that_o action_n etc._n etc._n see_v august_n contr_n par_fw-fr ep._n 1_o l._n 2._o ca._n 1._o can._n stay_v sect._n 12._o pag._n 123._o not_o so_o much_o as_o be_v to_o be_v desire_v but_o in_o a_o eminent_a sort_n and_o that_o with_o god_n
with_o the_o triumphant_a church_n and_o not_o by_o all_o sort_n as_o in_o outward_a society_n and_o profession_n be_v link_v together_o who_o yet_o be_v not_o exclude_v from_o the_o society_n in_o respect_n of_o profession_n nor_o deny_v to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n in_o their_o kind_n or_o in_o a_o sort_n such_o as_o be_v call_v only_o by_o external_a vocation_n be_v member_n in_o their_o kind_n of_o that_o company_n call_v or_o external_o select_v but_o not_o true_a member_n of_o the_o church_n militant_a nor_o militant_a member_n of_o the_o church_n catholic_a whereof_o christ_n be_v the_o head_n and_o thus_o the_o church_n be_v a_o company_n of_o faithful_a people_n sincere_a upright_a walk_v with_o god_n which_o be_v mix_v with_o hypocrite_n and_o wicked_a liver_n not_o as_o live_a member_n of_o jesus_n christ_n but_o as_o member_n in_o a_o sort_n of_o the_o visible_a society_n as_o member_n in_o the_o church_n by_o outward_a profession_n but_o not_o of_o the_o true_a militant_a church_n sect_n v._o before_o i_o end_v this_o point_n 34._o neces_fw-la of_o separate_a p._n 179_o 180_o 181._o babel_n no_o bethel_n pag._n 108._o shall_fw-mi ca._n 1._o pag_n 33_o 34._o i_o will_v here_o lay_v down_o some_o few_o syllogism_n entire_o make_v up_o between_o the_o inconformists_n and_o conformist_n all_o conclude_a the_o forename_a position_n that_o church_n which_o have_v not_o a_o lawful_a ministry_n be_v not_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v not_o a_o true_a lawful_a ministry_n ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o a_o true_a visible_a church_n the_o proposition_n be_v affirm_v of_o the_o conformist_n 65._o sutcl_n chal._n pa._n 40._o and_o answ_o to_z the_o except_z pag._n 65._o as_o burton_n sutcliffe_n the_o assumption_n be_v grant_v by_o the_o nonconformist_n as_o we_o have_v in_o the_o first_o chapter_n large_o show_v the_o true_a visible_a church_n of_o christ_n be_v a_o society_n of_o believe_v and_o faithful_a people_n and_o a_o communion_n of_o saint_n so_o say_v the_o conformist_n but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o a_o society_n of_o believe_v and_o faithful_a people_n a_o communion_n of_o saint_n thus_o write_v the_o nonconformist_n see_v page_n 169._o ergo_fw-la the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o the_o true_a visible_a church_n the_o true_a church_n be_v the_o king_n daughter_n describe_v in_o psalm_n 45._o but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o the_o king_n daughter_n so_o describe_v therefore_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n 100_o burton_n answer_v to_o hicholia_n pag._n 100_o the_o proposition_n be_v lay_v down_o by_o the_o conformist_n whereby_o they_o prove_v rome_n a_o false_a church_n the_o assumption_n be_v the_o nonconformist_n for_o if_o they_o say_v the_o truth_n their_o member_n have_v not_o those_o quality_n belong_v to_o the_o king_n daughter_n neither_o the_o priest_n nor_o people_n see_v pag._n 15.16_o 39.137_o ●●_o 69.170_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n be_v the_o flock_n of_o christ_n 〈◊〉_d the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o the_o true_a flock_n of_o christ_n therefore_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ._n the_o proposition_n say_v the_o conformist_n be_v undeniable_a 99_o burton_n in_o the_o same_o book_n pag._n 99_o song_n 1.6_o 7_o act_n 20.28_o joh_n 10.16_o the●e_n assumption_n be_v prove_v by_o the_o nonconformist_n principle_n compare_v with_o joh._n 10.3_o 4.27_o christ_n flock_n hear_v his_o voice_n and_o live_v it_o and_o follow_v it_o but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n submit_v to_o a●_n unlawful_a minisstery_n worship_n and_o discipline_n hear_v not_o christ_n voice_n nor_o know_v nor_o acknowledge_v nor_o follow_v it_o but_o the_o voice_n of_o antichrist_n the_o church_n of_o god_n do_v keep_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n without_o addition_n alteration_n or_o corruption_n thus_o the_o conformist_n 9_o sutcl_n chal._n cap._n 1._o pag._n 6._o arg_n 9_o but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n keep_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o prophet_n without_o addition_n alteration_n and_o corruption_n say_v the_o nonconformist_n sec_n pag_n 108_o ergo_fw-la she_o be_v not_o the_o church_n of_o god_n no_o society_n can_v be_v term_v god_n church_n which_o retain_v not_o god_n true_a worship_n this_o the_o conformist_n but_o the_o church_n of_o england_n do_v not_o retaire_n god_n true_a worship_n say_v the_o nonconformist_n see_v pag._n 78_o to_o the_o 213._o ergo_fw-la 19_o the_o same_o book_n pag._n 13._o arg_n 19_o she_o can_v be_v term_v god_n church_n the_o true_a church_n consist_v not_o of_o fierce_a lion_n wolf_n tiger_n and_o such_o like_a wild_a and_o fierce_a beast_n but_o of_o sheep_n and_o lamb_n which_o learn_v of_o christ_n and_o be_v meek_a humble_a gentle_a etc._n etc._n so_o say_v the_o conformist_n but_o the_o english_a church_n do_v consist_v of_o lion_n 〈◊〉_d id._n pag._n 27._o arg_n 〈◊〉_d wolf_n tiger_n and_o such_o like_a wild_a and_o fierce_a beast_n and_o not_o of_o sheep_n and_o lamb_n which_o learn_v of_o christ_n and_o be_v meek_a humble_a and_o gentle_a etc._n etc._n thus_o the_o nonconformist_n see_v pag._n 31._o etc._n etc._n 145.169_o therefore_o it_o be_v not_o the_o true_a church_n here_o the_o reader_n see_v clear_o how_o the_o conformist_n major_n and_o the_o nonconformist_n minor_n make_v up_o entire_a syllogism_n of_o separation_n and_o how_o they_o will_v be_v able_a to_o loose_v these_o knot_n i_o know_v not_o except_o by_o revoke_v utter_o their_o own_o ground_n which_o if_o either_o of_o they_o do_v yet_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o we_o shall_v be_v well_o enough_o able_a to_o maintain_v they_o against_o man_n answer_n you_o please_v yourself_o with_o the_o same_o song_n which_o here_o we_o have_v over_o again_o and_o again_o tune_v with_o the_o same_o art_n but_o that_o which_o you_o talk_v of_o the_o conformist_n major_n and_o the_o inconformists_n minor_n your_o slander_n set_v aside_o be_v idle_a and_o toyish_a for_o in_o that_o matter_n there_o be_v no_o difference_n betwixt_o the_o conformist_n and_o the_o inconsormists_n the_o conformist_n major_n as_o they_o be_v true_o mean_v the_o inconformists_n do_v assent_n unto_o and_o the_o abuse_n of_o ignorance_n idleness_n profaneness_n both_o of_o minister_n &_o people_n whereof_o the_o nonconformist_n complain_v the_o conformist_n do_v acknowledge_v and_o bewail_v and_o your_o self_n a_o little_a after_o in_o a_o matter_n of_o the_o same_o nature_n affirm_v that_o herein_o you_o say_v no_o more_o than_o what_o in_o effect_n be_v full_o acknowledge_v 193._o can._n neces_fw-la of_o separate_a pag._n 193._o by_o the_o nonconformist_n conformist_n the_o church_n of_o england_n the_o learned_a general_o and_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n upon_o earth_n and_o for_o proof_n you_o quote_v the_o same_o author_n 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fail_v or_o frustrate_v expectation_n may_v be_v call_v a_o idol_n a_o thing_n of_o no_o worth_n vain_a and_o fruitless_a so_o a_o hypocrite_n be_v a_o idol_n the_o husband_n wife_n father_n friend_n who_o be_v not_o faithful_a do_v not_o their_o office_n 1.16_o job_n 13.4_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d nihist_o as_o merar_n montan._n tremel_n &_o jun._n render_v it_o job_n 6.15_o 1_o cht._n 16.26_o heb._n sept._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d hieron_n idola_fw-la psal_n 96.5_o sept._n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d hieron_n vers_fw-la ex_fw-la hebr._fw-la sculptile_fw-la eph._n 5.3_o col._n 3.5_o with_o hal._n 1.16_o may_v be_v call_v idol_n job_n say_v to_o his_o friend_n you_o be_v physician_n of_o no_o value_n because_o they_o have_v deceive_v he_o as_o david_n say_v all_o the_o