a_o cool_a conference_n between_o the_o scottish_a commissioner_n clear_v reformation_n and_o the_o holland_n minister_n apologetical_a narration_n bring_v together_o by_o a_o well-willer_n to_o both_o 1644._o reformat_fw-la while_o we_o the_o mean_a of_o many_o etc._n etc._n wait_v for_o uniformity_n in_o religion_n so_o much_o desire_v by_o all_o the_o godly_a in_o the_o three_o kingdom_n unto_o which_o a_o entrance_n be_v make_v by_o a_o solemn_a league_n and_o covenant_n apologet._n we_o approve_v worthy_a brethren_n your_o expectation_n as_o just_a and_o confess_v our_o own_o desire_n of_o it_o so_o as_o reformation_n be_v not_o take_v indebite_fw-la in_o a_o strict_a stint_a sense_n but_o according_a to_o your_o latitude_n express_v pag._n 15._o we_o be_v say_v you_o neither_o so_o ignorant_a nor_o so_o arrogant_a as_o to_o ascribe_v to_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n it_o be_v your_o own_o phrase_n such_o absolute_a purity_n and_o perfection_n as_o have_v not_o need_n or_o can_v admit_v of_o further_a reformation_n so_o you_o a_o golden_a peace_n signify_v speech_n as_o if_o drop_v from_o the_o mouth_n of_o some_o chrysostome_n or_o conceive_v by_o some_o ireneus_fw-la pluck_v you_o that_o end_n and_o we_o the_o other_o likewise_o and_o we_o shall_v be_v fasten_v with_o a_o cordian_a knot_n of_o which_o our_o endeavour_n you_o have_v a_o full_a testimony_n in_o our_o league_n and_o covenant_n wherein_o we_o swear_v to_o endeavour_v the_o preservation_n of_o the_o reform_a religion_n in_o scotland_n we_o say_v of_o religion_n and_o reform_a be_v or_o shall_v be_v and_o till_o further_a reformation_n we_o will_v preserve_v it_o against_o our_o common_a enemy_n that_o you_o be_v not_o make_v to_o retreat_v from_o that_o you_o have_v win_v and_o that_o we_o will_v endeavour_v the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n and_o ireland_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n discipline_n and_o government_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n &_o the_o example_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n so_o far_o the_o covenant_n wherein_o it_o be_v as_o evident_a as_o if_o write_v with_o a_o sun_n beam_n that_o the_o church_n of_o england_n have_v not_o engage_v themselves_o to_o come_v down_o to_o you_o or_o do_v bind_v you_o to_o come_v to_o we_o but_o the_o common_a rendezvous_n where_o we_o must_v all_o meet_v be_v the_o best_a refâ—â—â—ed_a church_n and_o that_o according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n which_o be_v that_o standard_n of_o perfection_n that_o must_v weigh_v and_o measure_v out_o unto_o we_o our_o uniformity_n reformat_fw-la we_o find_v ourselves_o bind_v against_o the_o prejudices_fw-la and_o mistake_n of_o some_o who_o in_o the_o dark_a be_v afraid_a of_o that_o which_o they_o know_v not_o and_o suffer_v their_o affection_n of_o love_n and_o hatred_n to_o run_v before_o their_o understanding_n and_o against_o the_o misrepresentation_n and_o indirect_a aspersion_n of_o other_o who_o do_v so_o commend_v their_o own_o way_n that_o the_o reform_a church_n thereby_o suffer_v disparagement_n to_o give_v that_o testimony_n unto_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o particular_o of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n which_o they_o do_v well_o deserve_v apologet._n ah_o dear_a brethren_n why_o will_v you_o speak_v thus_o do_v these_o expression_n in_o the_o judgement_n of_o candour_n suit_n with_o your_o profession_n pag._n 2._o where_o you_o promise_v that_o you_o endeavour_v nothing_o but_o a_o simple_a and_o innocent_a manifestation_n and_o defence_n without_o desire_n or_o intention_n to_o give_v the_o small_a offence_n to_o any_o who_o fear_n god_n love_v the_o truth_n and_o etc._n etc._n so_o you_o let_v a_o impartial_a angel_n speak_v whether_o multitude_n of_o gracious_a heart_n be_v not_o just_o offend_v at_o this_o bitterness_n so_o unreasonable_o administer_v and_o apply_v too_o to_o wrong_v party_n ah_o how_o easy_a be_v it_o by_o our_o self-mistasting_a heart_n like_o the_o sorry_a artificer_n that_o make_v two_o crack_n while_o he_o be_v patch_v and_o hammer_v up_o one_o rather_o to_o cause_n prejudices_fw-la then_o cure_v they_o you_o may_v be_v confident_a let_v all_o the_o world_n look_v upon_o the_o apology_n and_o judge_n that_o the_o five_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n cast_v no_o prejudices_fw-la upon_o you_o to_o who_o you_o have_v so_o hasty_o reply_v and_o for_o private_a barking_n of_o inconsiderate_a and_o inconsiderable_a man_n they_o be_v either_o unknown_a or_o un-owned_n as_o be_v suppose_v by_o man_n of_o your_o gravity_n all_o wise_a man_n general_o be_v silent_o intentive_a expect_v not_o paper_n reply_n but_o dispute_v position_n from_o the_o assembly_n ground_v on_o scripture_n and_o therefore_o this_o paper_n come_v abroad_o only_o to_o beseech_v that_o on_o either_o side_n there_o may_v be_v commit_v no_o more_o breach_n of_o the_o peace_n ecclesiastic_a and_o to_o leave_v the_o apology_n if_o it_o may_v be_v under_o the_o same_o candid_a opinion_n that_o ray_v forth_o upon_o it_o afore_o this_o cloud_n come_v and_o interpose_v sure_o if_o the_o house_n of_o 5._o so_o the_o ordinance_n for_o the_o assembly_n p._n 5._o parliament_n allow_v any_o of_o the_o assembly_n differ_v in_o opinion_n touch_v the_o matter_n propose_v to_o they_o whereof_o discipline_n be_v one_o to_o present_v their_o judgement_n with_o their_o reason_n unto_o the_o say_a house_n you_o can_v judge_v it_o a_o crime_n to_o send_v forth_o a_o prodromum_fw-la present_v to_o the_o parliament_n to_o tell_v they_o and_o you_o how_o far_o they_o close_v with_o you_o and_o other_o reform_a church_n and_o dissent_v from_o the_o separation_n and_o brownist_n and_o therefore_o have_v not_o deserve_v to_o be_v whip_v with_o a_o reply_n pardon_v the_o phrase_n for_o indeed_o it_o be_v a_o smart_a stroke_n upon_o the_o spirit_n of_o understand_a man_n and_o stand_v forth_o in_o and_o for_o a_o public_a ecclesiastical_a cause_n to_o be_v tax_v for_o those_o who_o in_o the_o dark_a be_v afraid_a of_o that_o which_o they_o know_v not_o and_o to_o suffer_v their_o affection_n etc._n etc._n to_o run_v before_o their_o understanding_n etc._n etc._n sweet_a brethren_n do_v you_o call_v your_o book_n frequent_a among_o we_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n the_o assertion_n of_o your_o government_n the_o peaceable_a plea_n darkness_n or_o do_v you_o think_v that_o the_o elder_n of_o the_o quinque_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la or_o other_o that_o study_v discipline_n to_o be_v dark_a be_v we_o not_o moral_a man_n voluntas_fw-la vult_fw-la ut_fw-la intellectus_fw-la intelligit_fw-la to_o understand_v first_o and_o affect_v after_o or_o wherein_o have_v appear_v this_o preposterousnesse_n towards_o you_o while_o the_o apology_n smile_v upon_o you_o and_o sweet_o call_v you_o and_o holland_n by_o name_n the_o more_o reform_a church_n 6._o apol_n p_o 6._o do_v you_o give_v they_o one_o such_o a_o kind_a word_n in_o all_o your_o reply_n and_o more_o than_o that_o you_o call_v not_o yourselves_o confess_v a_o need_n of_o further_a reformation_n as_o we_o note_v and_o quote_v afore_o if_o then_o they_o have_v commend_v your_o church_n according_a to_o your_o own_o judgement_n of_o yourselves_o how_o have_v their_o commendation_n of_o other_o church_n appear_v to_o discommend_v you_o especial_o while_o they_o commend_v not_o their_o own_o for_o so_o perfect_a but_o that_o they_o find_v a_o necessity_n of_o hold_v this_o for_o one_o of_o their_o three_o rule_n by_o which_o they_o walk_v in_o these_o word_n not_o to_o make_v our_o present_a judgement_n and_o practice_v a_o 11._o apol._n p._n 10._o 11._o bind_a law_n unto_o ourselves_o for_o future_a which_o we_o likewise_o make_v continual_a profession_n of_o upon_o all_o occasion_n we_o have_v too_o great_a a_o instance_n of_o our_o own_o frailty_n in_o the_o former_a way_n of_o conformity_n and_o therefore_o in_o a_o jealousy_n of_o ourselves_o we_o keep_v this_o reserve_n which_o we_o make_v open_a and_o constant_a profession_n of_o to_o alter_v and_o retract_v though_o not_o light_o what_o ever_o shall_v be_v discover_v to_o be_v take_v up_o out_o of_o a_o misunderstanding_n of_o the_o rule_n so_o far_o the_o apolog._n there_o be_v yet_o one_o thing_n more_o that_o make_v the_o apologist_n more_o confident_a of_o their_o candour_n in_o that_o it_o receive_v so_o great_a a_o approbation_n from_o so_o pious_a and_o learned_a a_o man_n of_o your_o judgement_n and_o a_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n as_o on_o the_o other_o side_n though_o the_o assembly_n vote_v you_o thanks_o yet_o be_v it_o only_o for_o the_o book_n you_o give_v they_o not_o for_o the_o reply_n as_o it_o be_v express_v to_o that_o effect_n in_o the_o vote_n if_o observation_n fail_v not_o reformat_fw-la pag._n 2._o our_o way_n since_o our_o come_n into_o this_o kingdom_n have_v be_v and_o so_o far_o as_o the_o truth_n will_v suffer_v we_o ever_o shall_v be_v
est_fw-la ordo_fw-la &_o unus_fw-la inquit_fw-la honour_n &_o una_fw-la digâ—itas_fw-la imponit_fw-la manus_fw-la episcopus_fw-la ita_fw-la etiam_fw-la presbyter_n etc._n etc._n epip_n contra_fw-la haeres_fw-la li._n 3._o to._n 1._o ca._n 75._o that_o to_o celebrate_v the_o passeover_n be_v jewish_n that_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o lâ—ving_n do_v not_o profit_v the_o dead_a that_o their_o ordain_a set_n fâ—â—sts_v qâ—â—rta_n &_o pro_fw-la sabbató_n be_v not_o to_o be_v observe_v yet_o the_o same_o epiphanius_n who_o flourish_v about_o the_o year_n 365._o after_o christ_n so_o long_o since_o confess_v that_o aerius_n be_v not_o alone_o in_o this_o opinion_n but_o multitude_n more_o keep_v 〈…〉_o magnum_fw-la mâ—ltituâ—iâ—ent_fw-la virorum_fw-la aâ—_n muliâ—â—um_fw-la allexit_fw-la 〈…〉_o aâ—_n fibrii_fw-la 〈…〉_o together_o inform_v of_o a_o particular_a church_n with_o the_o say_v aerius_n their_o teacher_n all_o of_o they_o live_v very_o sober_o for_o the_o two_o synod_n you_o mention_v for_o want_v of_o copy_n of_o they_o nor_o do_v we_o in_o this_o business_n desire_v much_o to_o turn_v over_o book_n but_o take_v what_o be_v ready_a at_o hand_n unless_o hereafter_o we_o shall_v be_v force_v thereunto_o we_o shall_v speak_v but_o a_o word_n in_o general_a that_o as_o one_o of_o the_o best_a of_o our_o english_a article_n tâ—ll_v we_o 〈◊〉_d have_v and_o may_v err_v therefore_o synod_n if_o paphnutius_fw-la be_v alive_a he_o can_v tell_v we_o by_o experience_n christ_n enlighten_v and_o lead_v presence_n be_v much_o according_a to_o the_o orderly_a gather_n and_o manage_n of_o synod_n and_o for_o the_o protestant_a church_n in_o franâ—e_n if_o we_o may_v believe_v our_o ear_n hear_v the_o report_n of_o some_o of_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o french_a church_n here_o in_o england_n considerable_a too_o as_o the_o dutch_a or_o our_o eye_n in_o read_v the_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o france_n many_o material_a particular_n and_o passage_n be_v for_o we_o which_o we_o omit_v here_o as_o not_o intend_v a_o dispute_n or_o largeness_n in_o any_o thing_n so_o that_o if_o thing_n be_v weigh_v we_o be_v not_o so_o alone_o or_o heterogeneal_a as_o that_o we_o deserve_v the_o opinion_n that_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v for_o the_o reform_a church_n so_o far_o forth_o as_o they_o be_v reform_v at_o least_o as_o much_o as_o the_o presbyterian_o to_o those_o intimation_n of_o reform_v pag._n 19_o that_o the_o apologizers_n exile_n be_v voluntary_a they_o carry_v away_o church_n with_o they_o and_o leave_v the_o â—ther_n churchâ—s_v that_o stay_v behind_o expose_v to_o the_o enemy_n the_o apol._n have_v no_o more_o to_o say_v at_o this_o time_n but_o this_o that_o their_o exile_n at_o most_o be_v but_o as_o voluntary_a as_o the_o seman_n will_n seman_n voluntate_fw-la â—â—xta_fw-la semiplena_fw-la with_o a_o unwilling_a will_n cast_v their_o lade_n into_o the_o sea_n to_o save_v themselves_o from_o drown_v they_o take_v no_o more_o than_o christ_n give_v they_o when_o they_o persecute_v you_o in_o one_o place_n fly_v into_o another_o as_o christ_n and_o his_o parent_n do_v and_o they_o do_v no_o more_o expose_v the_o church_n to_o the_o enemy_n then_o as_o in_o all_o age_n other_o godly_a colony_n of_o saint_n have_v do_v in_o depart_v to_o francfort_n holland_n and_o new_a england_n lest_o they_o themselves_o also_o have_v be_v swallow_v up_o too_o and_o the_o other_o church_n never_o a_o iota_fw-la relieve_v by_o it_o but_o keep_v themselves_o for_o a_o reserve_n to_o assist_v the_o church_n at_o their_o return_n hope_v that_o if_o they_o be_v blame_v for_o their_o voluntary_a depart_n they_o shall_v not_o for_o their_o voluntary_a return_n to_o unexpose_v the_o church_n to_o the_o least_o claw_n or_o shadow_n of_o prelacy_n reformat_fw-la p._n 21._o tâ—_n limit_v the_o conâ—iere_n of_o excommunication_n in_o matter_n of_o opinion_n to_o the_o common_a and_o uncontroverted_a principle_n and_o in_o sentence_n the_o true_a copy_n of_o the_o apology_n be_v thus_o excommunication_n we_o judge_v shall_v be_v put_v in_o execution_n for_o no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n thâ—n_o may_v evident_o bâ—_n presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n as_o whâ—ther_o it_o be_v a_o siâ—_n in_o manner_n &_o conversaâ—â—n_n such_o as_o be_v commit_v agâ—nâ—t_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n or_o the_o common_a receâ—ved_a practice_n of_o christianity_n profess_v in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n or_o if_o in_o opinion_n than_o such_o as_o be_v likewise_o contrary_a to_o the_o receive_a principle_n of_o christianity_n &_o the_o power_n of_o godliness_n profess_v by_o the_o pâ—rty_n himself_o &_o universal_o acknowledge_v in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n and_o â—â—â—thâ—r_a sin_n to_o be_v the_o subâ—ect_n of_o that_o dreadful_a sentence_n the_o matter_n of_o manner_n to_o the_o common_a and_o universal_a practice_n of_o christianity_n and_o in_o both_o to_o the_o party_n know_v light_n be_v the_o dangerous_a doctrine_n of_o the_o arminian_o and_o socinian_o open_v a_o wide_a door_n and_o proclaim_v liberty_n to_o all_o other_o practice_n and_o error_n which_o be_v not_o fundamental_a 〈◊〉_d universal_o abhor_v by_o all_o christian_n and_o tend_v to_o the_o overthâ—â—w_n of_o the_o reform_a religion_n which_o we_o wish_v all_o sound_n and_o sober_a spirit_n tâ—_n abstain_v frâ—m_n lest_o it_o render_v they_o and_o their_o profession_n suspect_v of_o sâ—me_a suâ—â—â—â—â—panions_n 〈◊〉_d and_o practice_n as_o in_o chariâ—ie_n we_o judge_v to_o be_v faâ—_n from_o their_o mind_n and_o 〈◊〉_d apâ—lâ—g_v if_o pagan_n and_o infidel_n do_v not_o practice_v and_o papist_n prelate_n sâ—â—inians_n aâ—minians_n bâ—ownists_n separatist_n etc._n etc._n do_v not_o hold_v some_o common_a truth_n with_o christian_n as_o sense_n be_v common_a to_o man_n and_o be_v but_o condoll_n our_o condition_n that_o when_o we_o assert_v against_o mis-opinion_n of_o we_o that_o we_o give_v to_o magistrate_n as_o much_o as_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v we_o be_v compare_v to_o pagan_n infidel_n prelate_n etc._n etc._n as_o bring_v the_o way_n of_o christ_n into_o hate_n with_o prince_n when_o we_o speak_v for_o a_o conform_v of_o church_n government_n to_o the_o close_a agreement_n with_o the_o scripture_n we_o be_v compare_v to_o brownâ—sts_n separatist_n independent_o and_o popular_a anarchy_n when_o we_o judge_v that_o excommunication_n shall_v not_o be_v but_o of_o person_n presume_v to_o sin_n against_o their_o own_o light_n etc._n etc._n we_o be_v compare_v to_o sâ—cinians_n and_o arminian_o if_o not_o semi-suspected_n to_o be_v such_o though_o not_o by_o any_o english_a heart_n if_o these_o be_v right_a form_n of_o confutation_n the_o common_a people_n will_v begin_v to_o pride_n up_o themselves_o as_o to_o have_v say_v somewhat_o to_o the_o question_n now_o in_o controversy_n while_o they_o assert_v instead_o of_o better_a argument_n that_o a_o bishop_n be_v a_o presbytery_n contract_v and_o a_o presbytery_n be_v a_o bishop_n diffuse_v the_o former_a be_v as_o a_o precedent_n the_o other_o as_o a_o commission_n exercise_v by_o many_o do_v not_o this_o very_a particular_a of_o excommunication_n testify_v for_o we_o that_o the_o congregational_a way_n do_v leave_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbytery_n do_v many_o offence_n be_v to_o be_v punish_v bodily_a by_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n that_o be_v not_o to_o be_v censure_v with_o that_o spiritual_a high_a censure_n of_o excommunication_n which_o be_v a_o shut_n out_o of_o heaven_n and_o a_o give_v up_o to_o satan_n have_v need_n of_o better_a ground_n than_o man_n sin_v of_o simplicity_n or_o ignorance_n the_o very_a prelate_n at_o least_o pretend_a wilful_a obstinacy_n for_o their_o excommunication_n and_o the_o great_a punishment_n of_o excommunication_n inflict_v for_o small_a fault_n will_v make_v the_o punishment_n at_o last_o small_a in_o the_o eye_n of_o man_n but_o if_o it_o be_v restrain_v to_o great_a fault_n against_o the_o party_n light_n man_n will_v think_v the_o punishment_n to_o be_v like_o the_o sin_n and_o yet_o no_o door_n set_v open_a to_o other_o vice_n which_o civil_a power_n may_v punish_v external_o for_o the_o fact_n while_o church_n look_v upon_o fault_n spiritual_o in_o relation_n to_o the_o mind_n with_o what_o will_v they_o be_v commit_v reformat_fw-la pag._n 23._o two_o main_a objection_n be_v make_v against_o the_o principle_n and_o practice_n of_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n one_o be_v that_o there_o be_v no_o need_n of_o authoritative_a power_n of_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n and_o that_o the_o exhortation_n of_o particular_a church_n one_o to_o another_o the_o protestati_fw-la noâ—_n one_o against_o another_o and_o the_o withdraw_n of_o communion_n one_o from_o another_o may_v be_v a_o sufficient_a remedy_n and_o no_o less_o effectual_a against_o all_o offence_n than_o excommunication_n itself_o especial_o if_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v vouchsafe_v his_o assistance_n
and_o interpose_v his_o authority_n for_o strengthen_v thâ—_n sentence_n of_o non_fw-fr communion_n apolog._n there_o be_v not_o one_o word_n in_o the_o apology_n discourse_n of_o this_o point_n to_o extenuate_v the_o power_n of_o synod_n which_o be_v according_o to_o the_o scripture_n they_o hold_v they_o in_o the_o high_a esteem_n that_o ever_o the_o scripture_n advance_v they_o to_o and_o on_o the_o other_o side_n they_o there_o give_v we_o a_o express_a that_o beside_o the_o say_a exhortation_n protestation_n and_o non_fw-fr communion_n that_o they_o profess_v themselves_o ever_o to_o submit_v and_o also_o to_o be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n interpose_v a_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n upon_o his_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n reformat_fw-la pag._n 21._o 22._o to_o the_o say_a objection_n we_o answer_v 1_o for_o there_o be_v 5_o answer_n by_o way_n of_o direct_a confutation_n that_o this_o objection_n suppose_v a_o case_n which_o have_v not_o be_v find_v in_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n for_o the_o space_n of_o eighty_o year_n and_o believe_v be_v never_o hear_v of_o in_o any_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n except_o those_o of_o the_o separation_n the_o pronounce_v of_o non_fw-fr communion_n or_o excommunication_n against_o a_o whole_a church_n our_o excommunication_n have_v be_v execute_v but_o seldom_o against_o particular_a member_n never_o against_o a_o whole_a church_n and_o we_o think_v never_o shall_v be_v and_o therefore_o this_o imaginary_a fear_n of_o that_o which_o never_o fall_v out_o be_v not_o considerable_a rule_n be_v make_v for_o ordinary_a and_o usual_a case_n apolog._n who_o that_o have_v serious_o read_v and_o weigh_v the_o apology_n and_o therein_o their_o disclaim_n of_o the_o separation_n proper_o so_o call_v their_o own_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n and_o many_o in_o england_n for_o true_a church_n their_o just_a account_n of_o their_o practice_n in_o holland_n and_o their_o proceed_n towards_o the_o church_n mistake_v will_v after_o all_o this_o call_v the_o apologizers_n church_n church_n of_o the_o separation_n unless_o withal_o they_o express_v they_o mean_v separation_n from_o the_o prelate_n way_n as_o scotland_n and_o england_n now_o do_v but_o what_o ever_o true_a church_n be_v name_v we_o see_v no_o reason_n though_o other_o believe_v quod_fw-la factum_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la nec_fw-la fieri_fw-la potest_fw-la that_o which_o never_o have_v be_v never_o shall_v be_v but_o that_o they_o may_v be_v incident_a and_o liable_a to_o fall_v into_o that_o case_n of_o have_v to_o do_v with_o a_o whole_a particular_a church_n err_v especial_o till_o those_o swarm_n of_o anabaptist_n antinomian_o etc._n etc._n which_o have_v be_v so_o oft_o intimate_v and_o sound_v in_o our_o ear_n be_v allay_v you_o brethren_n yourselves_o suppose_v more_o and_o therefore_o you_o may_v suppose_v the_o less_o for_o in_o your_o second_o answer_n to_o this_o objection_n as_o you_o call_v it_o you_o suppose_v that_o two_o or_o more_o church_n may_v mutual_o protest_v and_o pronounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non_fw-fr communiâ—â—_n one_o against_o another_o in_o which_o case_n say_v you_o pronounce_v of_o non_fw-fr comâ—â—â—ion_n will_v prove_v rather_o a_o mean_a of_o division_n then_o of_o union_n and_o there_o wouâ—d_v be_v no_o remedy_n where_o the_o censure_n be_v mutual_a to_o compose_v this_o difference_n unless_o there_o be_v a_o common_a presbytery_n or_o synod_n make_v up_o of_o the_o whole_a to_o which_o we_o answer_v that_o this_o case_n have_v befall_v province_n and_o national_a prelatical_a church_n in_o matter_n of_o excommunication_n too_o each_o of_o they_o have_v a_o several_a pope_n in_o they_o have_v excommunicate_v one_o another_o and_o we_o see_v not_o that_o antidote_n in_o one_o of_o the_o way_n you_o mention_v namely_o a_o classical_a provincial_n presbytery_n but_o that_o one_o provincial_a presbytery_n may_v protest_v against_o and_o excommunicate_v the_o other_o for_o the_o other_o way_n for_o you_o propound_v two_o and_o we_o be_v willing_a to_o take_v the_o best_a namely_o a_o nationall_n synod_n gather_v and_o guide_v according_a to_o the_o scripture_n we_o willing_o embrace_v and_o they_o that_o will_v not_o take_v the_o judgement_n of_o such_o a_o synod_n have_v no_o scripture_n to_o allege_v just_o against_o their_o resolution_n let_v they_o fall_v into_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o magistrate_n the_o preserver_n of_o the_o public_a peace_n this_o same_o reply_n serve_v to_o your_o three_o and_o four_o answer_n we_o need_v add_v but_o a_o word_n in_o reply_n to_o your_o five_o answer_n wherein_o you_o demand_v by_o what_o probability_n it_o can_v be_v make_v to_o appear_v to_o any_o rational_a man_n and_o indifferent_a mind_n that_o no_o authority_n shall_v be_v as_o valid_a as_o authority_n against_o the_o obstinate_a that_o via_fw-la admonitionis_fw-la &_o requisitionis_fw-la be_v equal_a with_o via_fw-la citationis_fw-la &_o publicae_fw-la authoritatis_fw-la to_o which_o we_o answer_v that_o if_o it_o be_v state_v that_o that_o be_v authority_n which_o be_v scripture_n authority_n and_o not_o else_o and_o that_o to_o be_v most_o valid_a that_o convince_v and_o conquer_v actus_fw-la elicitos_fw-la the_o mind_n rather_o than_o that_o which_o do_v only_a manacle_n and_o constrain_v actus_fw-la imperatâ—s_fw-la the_o outward_a carriage_n the_o demand_n be_v soon_o answer_v be_v the_o way_n of_o admonition_n protestation_n and_o non_fw-fr communion_n no_o authority_n be_v that_o no_o authority_n that_o tell_v we_o we_o must_v give_v no_o offence_n better_a a_o millstone_n be_v hang_v about_o one_o neck_n and_o he_o cast_v into_o the_o sea_n then_o to_o offend_v a_o weak_a brother_n that_o we_o be_v better_a not_o eat_v flesh_n then_o to_o offend_v etc._n etc._n or_o be_v it_o no_o authority_n when_o a_o whole_a church_n after_o fast_v and_o prayer_n and_o clear_a disputation_n shall_v tell_v the_o obstinate_a err_a that_o upon_o those_o ground_n they_o will_v withdraw_v from_o they_o as_o from_o heathen_n and_o publican_n the_o truth_n be_v that_o the_o prelatical_a man_n have_v make_v much_o use_n of_o this_o your_o case_n allege_v to_o plead_v for_o bishop_n as_o most_o necessary_a to_o keep_v church_n in_o union_n but_o god_n authority_n hold_v forth_o to_o we_o in_o the_o judgement_n of_o nationall_n synod_n according_a to_o the_o word_n will_v prove_v more_o effectual_a than_o any_o humane_a institute_v way_n whatsoever_o to_o unite_v church_n reformat_fw-la pag._n 24._o the_o other_o objection_n be_v that_o by_o this_o authority_n and_o order_n of_o government_n one_o church_n have_v power_n over_o another_o which_o be_v contrary_a to_o that_o liberty_n and_o equality_n christ_n have_v endue_v his_o church_n with_o and_o be_v no_o other_o but_o a_o nâ—w_o prelatical_a dominion_n set_v over_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n to_o this_o say_v you_o we_o answer_v 1_o that_o we_o be_v far_o from_o impose_v any_o such_o collateral_a power_n the_o power_n which_o we_o maintain_v be_v aggregative_a of_o the_o officer_n of_o many_o congregation_n over_o the_o particular_a member_n in_o which_o as_o in_o the_o natural_a and_o politic_a body_n one_o member_n be_v not_o subject_a to_o another_o but_o be_v to_o the_o whole_a 2_o it_o be_v say_v you_o a_o miserable_a mistake_n to_o compare_v presbytery_n and_o prelate_n together_o for_o the_o court_n of_o prelate_n be_v altogether_o foreign_a and_o extrinsecall_v in_o the_o congregation_n over_o which_o they_o rule_v but_o the_o power_n of_o presbytery_n be_v intrinsical_v and_o natural_a they_o be_v constitute_v of_o the_o pastor_n and_o elder_n of_o the_o particular_a congregation_n â—ver_o which_o they_o be_v set_v so_o that_o another_o without_o themselves_o do_v not_o bear_v rule_n over_o they_o but_o all_o of_o they_o by_o common_a consent_n do_v rule_n over_o every_o one_o which_o be_v no_o more_o than_o â—â—r_a a_o membâ—â—â—f_a a_o particular_a congregation_n to_o be_v rule_v by_o his_o own_o particular_a eldership_n fâ—r_o they_o discern_v no_o sentence_n of_o excommunication_n of_o any_o member_n without_o the_o knowledge_n and_o consent_n of_o the_o particular_a congregation_n that_o be_v particular_o concern_v therein_o apolog._n you_o say_v you_o impose_v nâ—t_v a_o collateral_a power_n sure_o your_o law_n do_v impose_v that_o one_o congregation_n shall_v be_v subject_a to_o the_o elder_n suppose_v of_o twenty_o congregation_n and_o the_o authority_n of_o 19_o of_o they_o be_v as_o collateral_a the_o congregation_n every_o one_o choose_v their_o own_o officer_n to_o rule_v over_o themselves_o in_o the_o lord_n but_o we_o hear_v not_o you_o say_v that_o they_o choose_v their_o officer_n to_o rule_v over_o themselves_o and_o other_o though_o we_o hear_v you_o say_v that_o the_o officer_n themselves_o be_v ready_a enough_o to_o consent_v so_o to_o rule_v which_o be_v as_o extrinsecall_v as_o episcopacy_n if_o episcopacy_n be_v as_o intrinsical_v as_o presbytery_n for_o be_v not_o bishop_n choose_v by_o the_o people_n at_o their_o instalment_n where_o customary_o people_n be_v allow_v to_o make_v any_o just_a exception_n and_o have_v in_o part_n be_v practise_v in_o england_n though_o with_o little_a success_n in_o their_o domineer_a time_n just_o as_o ancient_o as_o hieronimus_fw-la tell_v we_o vnus_fw-la eligebatur_fw-la qui_fw-la caeteris_fw-la preponoretur_fw-la etc._n etc._n to_o avoid_v schism_n one_o of_o the_o classical_a presbytery_n be_v choose_v to_o be_v as_o chairman_n over_o they_o all_o in_o their_o consistory_n who_o from_o be_v so_o annual_o at_o last_o become_v so_o for_o his_o life_n time_n and_o so_o hence_o be_v bear_v episcopacy_n beside_o we_o know_v that_o the_o bishop_n and_o his_o chaplain_n chancellor_n archdeacon_n register_n etc._n etc._n be_v parishioner_n within_o their_o own_o diocese_n if_o not_o elder_n or_o officer_n in_o their_o several_a congregation_n and_o people_n former_o have_v be_v as_o willing_a they_o shall_v reign_v as_o ever_o any_o people_n be_v in_o your_o kingdom_n to_o have_v the_o presbytery_n over_o they_o and_o the_o bishop_n on_o the_o other_o side_n do_v as_o cunning_o comply_v with_o the_o congregation_n they_o ground_v their_o court_n proceed_n upon_o the_o churchwarden_n or_o parish_n elder_n presentment_n upon_o the_o people_n complaint_n and_o testimony_n and_o do_v not_o pass_v a_o excommunication_n without_o the_o subscription_n of_o the_o hand_n of_o a_o minister_n or_o two_o of_o that_o archdeaconry_n or_o countie-presbyterie_n and_o last_o of_o all_o the_o excommunication_n be_v not_o pronounce_v without_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o particular_a congregation_n so_o that_o it_o be_v clear_a it_o be_v not_o people_n consent_n only_o but_o if_o according_a to_o the_o word_n that_o make_v a_o government_n lawful_a god_n have_v chalk_v out_o to_o we_o pattern_n of_o people_n choose_v officer_n for_o the_o congregation_n and_o congregation_n choose_v man_n for_o synod_n or_o counsel_n but_o not_o as_o we_o conceive_v of_o choose_v man_n to_o make_v a_o middle_n classical_a presbytery_n what_o ever_o plausible_a show_v of_o reason_n may_v seem_v to_o commend_v a_o way_n yet_o only_o god_n way_n shall_v have_v the_o blessing_n of_o god_n upon_o it_o and_o if_o it_o can_v be_v resolve_v on_o all_o hand_n as_o yet_o clear_o which_o be_v it_o let_v that_o your_o golden_a speech_n be_v write_v upon_o all_o your_o action_n that_o thâ—se_a that_o be_v mâ—st_o averse_a to_o 26._o ☜_o reform_v p._n 26._o presbytery_n if_o they_o allow_v no_o material_a difference_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n or_o practice_v may_v enjoy_v their_o peace_n and_o all_o comfort_n of_o their_o ministry_n and_o profession_n under_o it_o without_o controlment_n of_o that_o authoritative_a power_n which_o they_o so_o much_o apprehend_v we_o have_v be_v of_o late_o make_v to_o fear_v the_o contrary_a by_o the_o report_n of_o some_o not_o of_o mean_a rank_n of_o your_o own_o nation_n but_o now_o we_o desire_v rather_o to_o hope_v upon_o your_o word_n here_o give_v under_o your_o own_o hand_n then_o fear_v by_o reason_n of_o they_o trust_v also_o that_o as_o you_o be_v kind_o invite_v to_o our_o assembly_n so_o you_o will_v be_v as_o helpful_a to_o our_o poor_a church_n as_o your_o army_n by_o godâ—_n blessing_n be_v like_a to_o be_v the_o commonwealth_n according_a as_o both_o nation_n have_v vow_v to_o endeavour_v the_o reformation_n of_o religion_n in_o the_o kingdom_n of_o england_n and_o ireland_n in_o doctrine_n worship_n discipline_n and_o government_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n 26._o 〈◊〉_d p._n 26._o we_o crave_v leave_v to_o conclude_v with_o your_o own_o word_n hope_v we_o may_v as_o confident_o speak_v they_o as_o you_o do_v namely_o that_o so_o much_o for_o the_o present_n have_v we_o say_v not_o for_o confutation_n but_o mere_o for_o justify_v our_o own_o and_o other_o reform_a church_n against_o such_o misrepresentings_a and_o mistake_n as_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n be_v too_o frequent_a in_o this_o place_n aâ—_n this_o time_n etc._n etc._n finis_fw-la
and_o practice_n which_o in_o effect_n you_o profess_v pag._n 15._o saying_n that_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n may_v admit_v of_o further_a reformation_n therefore_o it_o be_v suppose_v that_o for_o the_o present_a you_o only_o practice_v some_o thing_n of_o reformation_n and_o that_o for_o future_a when_o you_o have_v more_o light_n and_o power_n you_o will_v advance_v from_o your_o present_a practice_n to_o a_o further_o reformat_fw-la pag._n 6._o they_o do_v honour_n luther_n and_o calvin_n etc._n etc._n who_o have_v a_o heart_n or_o band_n etc._n etc._n in_o the_o bless_a work_n of_o reformation_n etc._n etc._n but_o for_o this_o to_o call_v we_o calvinians_n and_o the_o reform_a churches_n calvinian_a reform_v church_n be_v to_o disgrace_v the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o symbolize_v with_o the_o papist_n who_o call_v themselves_o the_o catholic_n church_n etc._n etc._n the_o separation_n may_v be_v well_o allow_v to_o be_v call_v brownist_n apologet._n ah_o brethren_n from_o what_o spirit_n come_v all_o this_o the_o whole_a design_n of_o frame_v a_o confutation_n of_o a_o plain_a simple_a modest_a single_a heart_a narration_n relish_v bitter_a upon_o multitude_n of_o godly_a and_o judicious_a palate_n but_o here_o we_o have_v meet_v if_o we_o mistake_v not_o the_o drug_n with_o the_o coloquintida_n or_o if_o it_o be_v intend_v for_o a_o better_a recipe_n it_o be_v scald_a hot_a if_o our_o taste_n fail_v we_o not_o can_v the_o apology_n possible_o be_v conceive_v in_o the_o word_n calvinian_a to_o intend_v the_o least_o grain_n of_o disgrace_n to_o any_o be_v it_o not_o the_o term_n use_v in_o all_o the_o true_a christian_a church_n for_o distinction_n sake_n from_o the_o more_o corrupt_a lutheran_n be_v it_o not_o in_o opposition_n to_o they_o more_o corrupt_a a_o term_n of_o honour_n be_v it_o not_o use_v of_o purpose_n to_o decline_v the_o word_n presbiterian_a that_o less_o offence_n may_v be_v take_v while_o the_o term_n now_o in_o controversy_n be_v wave_v do_v not_o the_o apology_n deep_o profess_v that_o multitude_n of_o church_n in_o england_n be_v true_a church_n and_o yet_o for_o honour_n of_o you_o call_v the_o church_n of_o scotland_n more_o reform_v but_o you_o object_n that_o this_o be_v to_o symbolize_v with_o the_o papist_n who_o call_v themselves_o the_o catholic_n church_n we_o take_v your_o objection_n to_o be_v our_o full_a answer_n as_o sure_o as_o the_o papist_n do_v not_o intend_v to_o disgrace_v themselves_o in_o call_v themselves_o catholic_n so_o sure_o be_v it_o believe_v that_o the_o apologist_n who_o be_v calvinian_n in_o doctrine_n at_o least_o if_o not_o more_o do_v not_o intend_v to_o disgrace_v themselves_o and_o the_o brethren_n hold_v the_o same_o doctrine_n and_o truth_n with_o the_o term_n clavinian_a yet_o as_o if_o in_o revenge_n you_o ding_v 5._o apol._n p._n 5._o the_o word_n separation_n and_o brownist_n against_o the_o apologist_n who_o have_v so_o clear_o renounce_v that_o rigid_a opinion_n and_o way_n in_o their_o apology_n as_o if_o you_o have_v forget_v or_o do_v intend_v to_o misapply_v what_o you_o have_v say_v but_o the_o next_o line_n afore_o quote_v out_o of_o hierom._n viz._n if_o any_o where_o we_o find_v man_n profess_v christianity_n call_v by_o the_o particular_a name_n of_o man_n know_v they_o to_o be_v the_o synagogue_n of_o antichrist_n and_o not_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n oh_o unhappy_a conjunction_n oh_o heavy_a application_n oh_o coal-black_a term_n quod_fw-la ego_fw-la sed_fw-la motos_fw-la praestat_fw-la componere_fw-la fluctus_fw-la be_v it_o not_o for_o patience_n nay_o that_o will_v hardly_o do_v it_o be_v it_o not_o for_o reverence_n of_o you_o and_o your_o nation_n a_o home_n answer_n will_v be_v shape_v to_o such_o a_o misshapen_v misprision_n but_o to_o love_n be_v to_o live_v the_o kingdom_n be_v on_o fire_n we_o need_v not_o hold_v coal_n to_o one_o another_o peace_n be_v upon_o the_o son_n of_o peace_n but_o let_v not_o that_o imputation_n fall_v upon_o we_o to_o set_v our_o house_n on_o fire_n to_o roast_v our_o own_o egg_n reformat_fw-la pag._n 10._o nothing_o be_v far_a from_o their_o thought_n and_o intention_n then_o to_o frame_v in_o their_o own_o forge_n a_o lesbian_a rule_n answerable_a to_o any_o particular_a form_n of_o civil_a policy_n or_o compliable_a with_o state_n end_v apolog._n whether_o these_o word_n in_o the_o apology_n pag._n 3._o for_o you_o tread_v upon_o the_o heel_n of_o the_o apology_n step_v after_o step_n we_o have_v no_o nâ—w_a commonwealth_n to_o rear_v to_o frame_v church_n government_n unto_o do_v provoke_v to_o any_o such_o answer_n let_v all_o indifferent_a man_n judge_v for_o who_o do_v not_o know_v that_o you_o have_v no_o new_a commonwealth_n to_o rear_v this_o may_v far_o easy_o be_v understand_v of_o new_a england_n and_o yet_o without_o surmise_n of_o any_o blame_n lay_v upon_o they_o who_o have_v the_o king_n patent_n for_o what_o they_o do_v in_o policy_n as_o god_n word_n for_o church_n government_n which_o they_o have_v follow_v close_o with_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o judgement_n reformat_fw-la pag._n 11._o nor_o do_v we_o know_v any_o reason_n why_o education_n in_o sâ—und_a doctrine_n and_o true_a worship_n shall_v be_v account_v a_o matter_n of_o thanksgiving_n to_o god_n and_o yet_o shall_v glory_v in_o this_o that_o we_o be_v not_o by_o education_n engage_v iâ—_n any_o one_o form_n of_o discipline_n and_o church_n government_n but_o leave_v to_o ourselves_o to_o be_v mould_v by_o our_o own_o private_a thought_n apolog._n there_o be_v no_o such_o doxology_n in_o the_o apology_n as_o to_o thank_v god_n for_o their_o disengagednesse_n from_o or_o non_fw-fr education_n in_o true_a reform_a church_n they_o express_v their_o sorrow_n that_o the_o defilement_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n cause_v their_o exilement_n oâ—t_v of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n their_o naked_a word_n be_v only_o these_o we_o be_v not_o engage_v by_o education_n or_o otherwise_o to_o any_o other_o of_o the_o 4._o apol._n p._n 4._o reform_a church_n and_o for_o your_o intimate_v charge_n of_o be_v leave_v to_o themselves_o to_o be_v mould_v by_o their_o own_o private_a thought_n touch_v church_n government_n their_o own_o word_n do_v most_o transparent_o clear_v they_o wâ—_n be_v not_o engage_v say_v they_o by_o education_n etc._n etc._n to_o other_o of_o the_o reform_a 4._o apol._n p._n 4._o church_n yet_o we_o consult_v with_o reverence_n what_o they_o hold_v forth_o both_o in_o writing_n and_o practice_n we_o have_v the_o advantage_n of_o all_o that_o light_n which_o the_o conflict_n of_o our_o divine_n the_o good_a old_a no_o conformist_n have_v strike_v forth_o in_o their_o time_n and_o the_o dâ—â—ughts_n of_o discipline_n which_o they_o have_v draw_v we_o have_v likewise_o the_o fatal_a miscarriage_n and_o shipwreck_n of_o the_o separation_n who_o you_o call_v brownist_n as_o landmark_n to_o forewarn_v we_o of_o those_o rock_n and_o 〈◊〉_d they_o run_v upon_o and_o tâ—_n inquire_v into_o the_o principle_n that_o may_v be_v the_o câ—â—ses_n â—f_o their_o division_n last_o of_o all_o we_o have_v the_o recent_a and_o late_a example_n of_o the_o way_n and_o practice_n and_o those_o improve_v to_o a_o better_a edition_n and_o great_a reâ—â—â—ement_n etc._n etc._n of_o those_o multiâ—udes_n of_o godly_a man_n of_o our_o own_o natiâ—â—_n 〈◊〉_d to_o the_o number_n of_o mother_n nation_n and_o among_o they_o some_o as_o holy_a and_o judicious_a diviâ—es_n as_o this_o kingdom_n have_v breed_v all_o which_o we_o look_v upon_o naked_o according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n thus_o the_o apology_n out_o of_o which_o word_n the_o venomous_a spider_n of_o envy_n can_v much_o less_o you_o brethren_n that_o be_v man_n of_o a_o better_a spirit_n extract_v and_o draw_v just_o this_o conclusion_n that_o the_o apologist_n intend_v to_o mould_v a_o government_n in_o and_o by_o their_o own_o private_a thought_n they_o be_v not_o so_o leave_v to_o themselves_o by_o the_o opposition_n of_o the_o time_n but_o that_o they_o carry_v with_o they_o the_o golden_a measure_v reed_n of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o do_v with_o all_o the_o judgement_n and_o divine_a assistance_n they_o have_v measure_n and_o square_v every_o inch_n as_o they_o build_v nor_o do_v it_o yet_o appear_v to_o some_o that_o wishly_o look_v after_o these_o thing_n in_o what_o material_a thing_n their_o building_n differ_v from_o other_o unless_o about_o the_o general_a and_o common_a roof_n whether_o it_o shall_v be_v the_o monstrous_a arch_n of_o episcopacy_n or_o the_o cement_v vault_n of_o a_o classical_a presbytery_n or_o of_o jerusalem_n work_n of_o a_o apostolical_a council_n and_o this_o main_a question_n be_v now_o among_o they_o quos_fw-la penes_fw-la arbitrium_fw-la est_fw-la &_o vis_fw-la &_o norma_fw-la loquendi_fw-la reformat_fw-la pag._n 11._o the_o church_n plant_v by_o the_o apostle_n if_o not_o at_o