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church_n catholic_n particular_a union_n 3,907 5 9.8315 5 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
B04528 The lavvfulnes of hearing the publick ministers of the Church of England proved, by Mr. Philip Nye and Mr. John Robinson, two eminent Congregational divines. Together with the judgment of Dr. Goodwin, Dr. Owen, and other independents, as well ancient as modern, concerning forms of prayer, parish-churches, and communion with them: and the judgment of other nonconformists about kneeling at the sacrament. Nye, Philip, 1596?-1672.; Robinson, John, 1575?-1625. 1683 (1683) Wing N1496; ESTC R203023 37,350 46

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for_o encourage_v of_o such_o as_o shall_v be_v send_v out_o to_o the_o several_a part_n of_o the_o nation_n in_o this_o great_a work_n 2._o there_o be_v a_o sum_n of_o doctrinal_a truth_n which_o in_o the_o enlargement_n and_o application_n be_v sufficient_a both_o for_o conversion_n and_o edification_n to_o which_o the_o preacher_n be_v to_o assent_v and_o there_o be_v provision_n make_v by_o our_o law_n that_o such_o person_n only_o who_o be_v sound_a in_o the_o faith_n be_v employ_v therein_o 3._o the_o inhabitant_n of_o this_o nation_n be_v require_v to_o be_v present_a and_o to_o give_v attendance_n to_o instruction_n that_o they_o may_v learn_v the_o fear_n of_o the_o lord_n assertion_n these_o thing_n be_v so_o although_o some_o of_o we_o do_v enjoy_v the_o instruction_n of_o our_o pastor_n be_v in_o a_o church-relation_n yet_o it_o be_v a_o duty_n that_o we_o and_o our_o family_n frequent_v also_o as_o we_o have_v liberty_n and_o opportunity_n the_o more_o public_a and_o 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that_o church_n as_o he_o that_o swear_v by_o the_o altar_n swear_v by_o the_o offering_n upon_o it_o which_o it_o sanctify_v mat._n 23.19_o 20._o answ_n i_o partake_v not_o in_o the_o sin_n of_o any_o how_o great_a or_o manifest_a soever_o the_o sin_n be_v or_o how_o near_o unto_o i_o soever_o the_o person_n be_v except_o the_o same_o sin_n either_o be_v commit_v or_o remain_v unreformed_a by_o my_o fault_n otherwise_o christ_n our_o lord_n have_v be_v enwrap_v in_o the_o gild_n of_o a_o world_n of_o sin_n in_o the_o jewish_a church_n with_o which_o church_n he_o communicate_v in_o god_n ordinance_n live_v and_o die_v a_o member_n thereof_o if_o my_o brother_n sin_n a_o scandalous_a sin_n and_o i_o by_o just_a order_n make_v complaint_n thereof_o to_o the_o church_n i_o have_v do_v my_o duty_n it_o appertain_v to_o the_o church_n to_o excommunicate_v he_o if_o he_o repent_v not_o but_o not_o to_o i_o except_o pope-like_a i_o will_v make_v myself_o the_o church_n i_o be_o guilty_a of_o the_o evil_a in_o the_o commonwealth_n and_o family_n for_o redress_v whereof_o i_o do_v not_o my_o duty_n in_o my_o place_n which_o if_o i_o do_v in_o the_o church_n as_o i_o can_v i_o be_o free_a from_o the_o sin_n do_v and_o suffer_v there_o which_o sin_n and_o evil_n i_o can_v no_o more_o be_v say_v to_o suffer_v want_v power_n to_o reform_v they_o than_o to_o suffer_v it_o to_o blow_v or_o rain_n because_o i_o hinder_v it_o not_o but_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o assertion_n from_o mat._n 13._o be_v of_o admirable_a device_n how_o do_v the_o church_n sanctify_v the_o sin_n of_o the_o sinner_n as_o the_o altar_n do_v the_o offer_n of_o the_o offerer_n the_o altar_n make_v that_o to_o become_v actual_o a_o offer_v or_o holy_a gift_n which_o before_o be_v not_o a_o offer_v actual_o but_o only_a gold_n
silver_n or_o other_o material_n so_o do_v not_o the_o church_n make_v any_o man_n sin_n to_o become_v his_o sin_n which_o it_o be_v not_o before_o but_o only_o suffer_v the_o sin_n that_o be_v but_o to_o strain_v the_o string_n of_o this_o imagine_a proportion_n to_o make_v they_o meet_v and_o to_o suppose_v the_o church_n in_o a_o sense_n to_o be_v as_o the_o altar_n yet_o this_o only_a follow_v thereupon_o that_o as_o he_o who_o partake_v with_o the_o altar_n in_o the_o uphold_v of_o the_o offer_n partake_v with_o the_o offer_n so_o he_o that_o partake_v with_o the_o church_n in_o the_o uphold_v of_o any_o evil_n have_v his_o part_n in_o the_o evil_a also_o and_o this_o i_o grant_v willing_o but_o deny_v as_o a_o most_o vain_a imagination_n that_o every_o one_o that_o partake_v with_o a_o church_n in_o thing_n lawful_a join_v with_o it_o in_o uphold_v the_o thing_n unlawful_a to_o be_v find_v in_o it_o christ_n our_o lord_n join_v with_o the_o jewish_a church_n in_o thing_n lawful_a and_o yet_o uphold_v nothing_o unlawful_a in_o it_o object_n 3._o but_o this_o course_n of_o hear_v will_v offend_v weak_a brethren_n not_o persuade_v of_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o it_o answ_n 1._o it_o will_v offend_v more_o and_o many_o of_o they_o weak_a and_o that_o more_o grievous_o if_o it_o be_v not_o perform_v 2._o it_o be_v a_o offence_n take_v and_o not_o give_v see_v the_o thing_n be_v in_o itself_o good_a in_o its_o kind_n command_v by_o god_n and_o in_o that_o particular_a by_o man_n in_o authority_n and_o direct_o tend_v to_o my_o edification_n and_o not_o like_a unto_o eat_v of_o flesh_n or_o drink_v of_o wine_n or_o the_o like_a thing_n of_o indifferent_a nature_n and_o leave_v to_o my_o free_a liberty_n to_o use_v or_o not_o to_o use_v and_o these_o be_v the_o principal_a objection_n upon_o the_o former_a ground_n they_o upon_o the_o latter_a follow_v there_o be_v in_o the_o hand_n of_o many_o a_o treatise_n publish_v by_o a_o man_n of_o note_n contain_v certain_a reason_n to_o prove_v it_o unlawful_a to_o hear_v or_o have_v spiritual_a communion_n with_o the_o present_a ministry_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n this_o have_v be_v answer_v but_o indeed_o sophistical_o and_o in_o passion_n neither_o have_v the_o answerer_n much_o regard_v what_o he_o say_v or_o unsay_v so_o he_o may_v gainsay_v his_o adversary_n with_o that_o answer_n be_v join_v another_o direct_v to_o myself_o and_o the_o same_o double_a pretend_v to_o prove_v public_a communion_n upon_o private_a but_o not_o press_v at_o all_o in_o the_o body_n of_o the_o discourse_n that_o consequence_n but_o proceed_v upon_o other_o ground_n and_o in_o truth_n consist_v of_o a_o continue_a equivocation_n in_o the_o term_n public_a licence_n government_n ministry_n and_o the_o like_a draw_v to_o another_o sense_n than_o either_o i_o intend_v they_o or_o than_o the_o matter_n in_o question_n will_v permit_v whereas_o he_o that_o will_v refute_v another_o shall_v religious_o take_v and_o hold_v to_o his_o adversary_n meaning_n and_o if_o in_o any_o particular_a it_o be_v not_o so_o plain_o set_v down_o shall_v spell_v it_o as_o it_o be_v out_o of_o his_o word_n but_o it_o be_v no_o new_a thing_n even_o for_o learned_a and_o godly_a man_n to_o take_v more_o than_o lawful_a liberty_n in_o deal_v with_o they_o against_o who_o they_o have_v the_o advantage_n of_o the_o time_n favour_v they_o like_o the_o wind_n on_o their_o back_n but_o god_n forbid_v i_o shall_v follow_v they_o herein_o i_o will_v on_o the_o contrary_a use_n all_o plainness_n and_o simplicity_n as_o in_o the_o sight_n of_o god_n that_o so_o i_o may_v make_v the_o naked_a truth_n appear_v as_o it_o be_v to_o the_o christian_a reader_n be_v eye_v what_o in_o i_o lie_v and_o for_o the_o treatise_n mention_v it_o must_v be_v observe_v how_o both_o in_o the_o title_n and_o body_n of_o the_o book_n the_o author_n confound_v as_o one_o hear_v of_o and_o have_v spiritual_a communion_n with_o the_o ministry_n etc._n etc._n which_o as_o it_o be_v true_a of_o such_o as_o stand_v in_o spiritual_a and_o political_a church-union_n with_o a_o church_n and_o the_o ministry_n thereof_o who_o according_o have_v church-communion_n in_o the_o public_a act_n and_o exercise_n of_o that_o church_n so_o be_v it_o not_o true_a of_o other_o which_o be_v not_o member_n of_o nor_o in_o ecclesiastical_a union_n and_o combination_n with_o the_o say_a church_n for_o the_o better_a clear_n of_o thing_n let_v we_o in_o a_o few_o word_n consider_v distinct_o of_o religious_a action_n according_a to_o the_o several_a rank_n in_o which_o they_o may_v right_o and_o orderly_o be_v set_v some_o such_o action_n be_v religious_a only_o as_o they_o be_v perform_v by_o religious_a person_n and_o of_o this_o sort_n be_v hear_v and_o so_o read_v of_o god_n word_n the_o scripture_n teach_v and_o all_o confess_v that_o hear_v of_o the_o word_n of_o god_n go_v before_o faith_n for_o faith_n come_v by_o hear_v as_o by_o a_o outward_a mean_n rom._n 10.7_o hear_v then_o be_v before_o faith_n and_o faith_n before_o all_o other_o act_n of_o religion_n inward_a or_o outward_a it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o hear_v be_v not_o simple_o or_o of_o itself_o a_o work_n of_o religion_n and_o so_o not_o of_o religious_a communion_n hear_v be_v proper_o and_o of_o itself_o a_o natural_a action_n though_o it_o be_v the_o hear_n the_o very_a word_n of_o god_n and_o i_o call_v it_o a_o natural_a action_n in_o itself_o in_o a_o double_a respect_n first_o for_o that_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n teach_v every_o man_n to_o hear_v and_o listen_v to_o another_o that_o can_v and_o will_v teach_v and_o inform_v he_o in_o any_o thing_n for_o his_o good_a divine_a or_o humane_a second_o for_o that_o a_o mere_a natural_a man_n jew_n turk_n infidel_n or_o idolater_n lawful_o may_v yea_o necessary_o aught_o to_o hear_v god_n word_n that_o so_o of_o natural_a he_o may_v become_v spiritual_a in_o the_o second_o rank_n i_o place_v preach_v and_o prayer_n which_o be_v proper_o act_v religious_a and_o spiritual_a as_o be_v to_o be_v perform_v the_o one_o by_o a_o gift_n the_o other_o by_o a_o grace_n of_o god_n spirit_n psal_n 50.16_o 17._o prov._n 15.8_o john_n 9.31_o of_o a_o three_o sort_n be_v the_o paricipation_n in_o the_o sacrament_n which_o ordinary_o at_o least_o require_v a_o membership_n in_o some_o particular_a and_o misterial_a church_n in_o the_o participant_a they_o be_v public_a church-ordinance_n in_o a_o four_o order_n i_o set_v the_o power_n of_o suffrage_n and_o voice-giving_a in_o elect_v of_o officer_n and_o cesure_v of_o offender_n for_o which_o there_o be_v requisite_a a_o interest_n of_o the_o person_n so_o vote_v in_o that_o particular_a church_n as_o a_o member_n thereof_o of_o the_o last_o sort_n be_v the_o ministration_n of_o sacrament_n which_o require_v with_o the_o rest_n forementioned_a a_o public_a state_n of_o ministry_n in_o the_o person_n administer_a they_o now_o for_o preach_v by_o some_o and_o hear_v by_o other_o which_z two_o always_o go_v together_o they_o may_v be_v and_o oft_o be_v perform_v without_o any_o religious_a or_o spiritual_a communion_n at_o all_o pass_n between_o the_o person_n preach_v or_o hear_v when_o paul_n preach_v to_o the_o superstitious_a athenian_n shall_v we_o conceive_v he_o have_v spiritual_a communion_n with_o that_o heathenish_a assembly_n how_o much_o less_o have_v they_o spiritual_a and_o religious_a communion_n with_o he_o who_o perform_v not_o so_o much_o as_o a_o religious_a work_n in_o their_o hear_n as_o god_n give_v any_o of_o they_o to_o believe_v they_o come_v into_o invisible_a or_o inward_o spiritual_a personal_a communion_n with_o he_o as_o they_o come_v to_o make_v personal_a manifestation_n and_o declaration_n of_o their_o faith_n they_o come_v into_o outward_a personal_a communion_n with_o he_o last_o as_o they_o come_v to_o join_v in_o or_o unto_o some_o particular_a church_n into_o church-communion_n with_o he_o else_o not_o so_o when_o there_o come_v into_o the_o church-assemble_o unbeliever_n heathen_n turk_n jew_n atheist_n excommunicate_n man_n of_o all_o religion_n man_n of_o none_o at_o all_o and_o there_o hear_v what_o spiritual_a communion_n have_v they_o with_o the_o church_n or_o state_n of_o the_o teacher_n or_o one_o with_o another_o either_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o act_n do_v or_o by_o god_n ordination_n and_o institution_n hear_v simple_o be_v not_o appoint_v of_o god_n to_o be_v a_o mark_n and_o note_n either_o of_o union_n in_o the_o same_o faith_n or_o order_n among_o all_o that_o hear_v or_o of_o difference_v of_o christian_n from_o no_o christian_n or_o of_o member_n from_o no_o member_n of_o the_o church_n as_o the_o sacrament_n be_v note_n of_o both_o in_o the_o participant_n the_o hear_n
receive_v to_o which_o they_o be_v send_v by_o they_o and_o so_o i_o profess_v i_o hear_v they_o as_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o bishop_n send_v and_o of_o the_o parish_n send_v to_o but_o not_o as_o my_o minister_n either_o send_v or_o send_v to_o except_o i_o be_v of_o those_o parish_n or_o at_o least_o in_o ecclesiastical_a union_n with_o they_o every_o one_o whether_o of_o a_o false_a church_n or_o no_o church_n or_o excommunicate_v from_o the_o church_n that_o hear_v i_o hear_v i_o as_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n which_o i_o serve_v but_o not_o as_o his_o pastor_n i_o suppose_v nor_o in_o way_n of_o any_o his_o spiritual_a communion_n with_o my_o office_n of_o pastorship_n second_o by_o hear_v and_o receive_v there_o christ_n mean_n proper_o the_o heark_n to_o believe_v and_o obey_v the_o doctrine_n teach_v by_o the_o apostle_n which_o many_o despise_a unto_o who_o he_o oppose_v the_o former_a that_o hear_v it_o now_o the_o minister_n in_o the_o parish_n have_v not_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n from_o the_o bishop_n as_o they_o have_v their_o office_n but_o from_o god_n in_o his_o word_n and_o so_o far_o forth_o as_o a_o man_n hear_v that_o be_v hearken_v to_o and_o receive_v they_o by_o receive_v it_o he_o so_o far_o hearken_v to_o and_o receive_v christ_n object_n 5._o yet_o such_o as_o hear_v they_o have_v communion_n with_o their_o office_n of_o ministry_n what_o in_o they_o lie_v answ_n that_o be_v they_o have_v no_o communion_n at_o all_o with_o it_o if_o it_o lie_v not_o in_o they_o to_o have_v any_o as_o it_o do_v not_o if_o i_o hold_v up_o my_o hand_n as_o high_a as_o i_o can_v i_o touch_v heaven_n with_o my_o finger_n what_o in_o i_o lie_v do_v i_o therefore_o at_o all_o touch_n it_o if_o such_o think_v to_o have_v any_o such_o communion_n it_o be_v their_o error_n and_o ignorance_n but_o make_v not_o the_o thing_n to_o be_v the_o more_o than_o if_o they_o think_v not_o so_o object_n 6._o be_v there_o then_o no_o communion_n at_o all_o between_o the_o teacher_n and_o teach_v what_o profit_n then_o come_v there_o by_o such_o hear_n answ_n the_o church-officer_n feed_v the_o flock_n and_o church_n over_o which_o he_o be_v set_v as_o the_o object_n of_o his_o ministry_n such_o as_o come_v in_o be_v not_o in_o church-union_n therewith_o hear_v he_o so_o do_v and_o as_o a_o stander-by_n hear_v i_o talk_v to_o or_o dispute_v with_o another_o though_o i_o speak_v not_o a_o word_n to_o he_o may_v reap_v as_o much_o and_o more_o fruit_n by_o my_o speech_n than_o he_o to_o who_o i_o direct_v it_o so_o may_v and_o do_v it_o often_o come_v to_o pass_v with_o he_o that_o hear_v the_o minister_n feed_v the_o flock_n who_o minister_n he_o be_v though_o he_o be_v no_o part_n of_o it_o he_o may_v reap_v fruit_n by_o hear_v he_o feed_v his_o flock_n or_o see_v he_o minister_v baptism_n to_o any_o member_n thereof_o here_o be_v communion_n only_o in_o the_o effect_n of_o the_o truth_n teach_v it_o be_v usurpation_n in_o any_o to_o partake_v in_o a_o church-priviledg_n which_o the_o office_n of_o ministry_n be_v that_o be_v not_o in_o a_o church-state_n first_o and_o so_o if_o hear_v simple_o import_v church-communion_n none_o but_o church-member_n may_v lawful_o hear_v object_n 7._o in_o the_o true_a church_n indeed_o be_v order_n that_o the_o church-covenant_n go_v before_o church-communion_n but_o not_o so_o in_o the_o false_a answ_n in_o the_o true_a church_n there_o may_v be_v unlawful_a church-communion_n without_o a_o precede_a church-covenant_n as_o well_o as_o in_o the_o other_o to_o wit_n if_o a_o act_n of_o communion_n proper_o pass_v between_o the_o church_n and_o he_o that_o be_v no_o church-member_n as_o for_o example_n participation_n in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o hear_v be_v not_o proper_o a_o act_n of_o communion_n can_v import_v communion_n necessary_o with_o the_o one_o or_o other_o not_o otherwise_o then_o according_a to_o a_o foregoing_a church-union_n whereas_o to_o partake_v in_o the_o lord_n supper_n import_v communion_n in_o both_o lawful_a in_o he_o that_o be_v a_o lawful_a church-member_n and_o unlawful_a in_o he_o that_o be_v not_o in_o such_o a_o church-state_n object_n 8._o but_o it_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n that_o all_o that_o hear_v be_v and_o so_o be_v repute_v member_n of_o that_o church_n answ_n i_o deny_v that_o there_o be_v any_o such_o order_n let_v the_o law_n or_o canon_n either_o be_v show_v that_o so_o order_n thing_n excommunicate_n be_v permit_v to_o hear_v sermon_n though_o not_o divine_a service_n as_o they_o call_v it_o 2._o what_o if_o there_o be_v such_o a_o order_n it_o no_o more_o either_o make_v or_o declare_v i_o to_o be_v a_o member_n there_o than_o do_v my_o dwell_n in_o such_o or_o such_o a_o parish_n make_v i_o a_o member_n of_o that_o parish-church_n which_o latter_a be_v indeed_o the_o law_n and_o order_n there_o if_o the_o church_n with_o i_o shall_v make_v a_o law_n canon_n or_o order_n that_o all_o that_o come_v in_o and_o hear_v i_o preach_v shall_v thereby_o become_v member_n of_o it_o we_o be_v the_o more_o foolish_a in_o make_v such_o a_o order_n but_o they_o never_o a_o whit_n the_o near_o either_o for_o membership_n or_o communion_n object_n 9_o he_o that_o hear_v appear_v to_o have_v communion_n with_o the_o church_n and_o ministry_n and_o all_o appearance_n of_o evil_n be_v to_o be_v avoid_v 1_o thess_n 5.22_o answ_n the_o scripture_n be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o all_o that_o appear_v evil_a to_o other_o out_o of_o a_o erroneous_a and_o deceive_v judgement_n for_o than_o we_o must_v abstain_v from_o almost_o all_o good_a see_v there_o be_v some_o to_o who_o almost_o all_o good_a seem_v evil_a but_o it_o be_v mean_v either_o of_o the_o doctrine_n in_o prophecy_n of_o which_o i_o have_v some_o probable_a suspicion_n of_o which_o the_o apostle_n seem_v proper_o to_o speak_v or_o of_o that_o which_o appear_v evil_a to_o a_o right_o discern_v eye_n by_o this_o imagine_a exposition_n i_o may_v not_o hire_v a_o house_n in_o a_o parish_n where_o i_o be_v not_o know_v see_v thereby_o i_o appear_v a_o parish-member_n object_n 10._o none_o can_v hear_v without_o a_o preacher_n nor_o preach_v except_o he_o be_v send_v rom._n 10.14_o 15._o therefore_o i_o can_v lawful_o hear_v he_o that_o have_v not_o a_o lawful_a send_n answ_n that_o conclusion_n be_v neither_o in_o text_n nor_o sound_n i_o may_v lawful_o hear_v he_o that_o have_v no_o lawful_a call_v as_o i_o have_v former_o show_v 2._o the_o apostle_n meaning_n there_o be_v not_o to_o show_v what_o be_v unlawful_a but_o what_o be_v impossible_a it_o be_v impossible_a to_o believe_v without_o hear_v and_o impossible_a to_o hear_v without_o preach_v and_o impossible_a to_o preach_v without_o the_o send_n there_o intend_v that_o be_v without_o god_n gracious_a work_n of_o providence_n in_o raise_v up_o of_o man_n by_o enable_v and_o disopse_v they_o to_o preach_v for_o the_o effectual_a call_n of_o the_o elect_a of_o god_n of_o which_o he_o there_o speak_v if_o any_o make_v a_o question_n whether_o faith_n come_v by_o the_o hear_n of_o the_o preacher_n there_o it_o be_v more_o questionable_a whether_o they_o themselves_o want_v not_o faith_n which_o be_v so_o barren_a of_o charity_n in_o which_o true_a faith_n be_v fruitful_a if_o faith_n come_v by_o the_o preach_a in_o england_n to_o any_o it_o follow_v thereupon_o that_o such_o preacher_n be_v send_v in_o the_o apostle_n sense_n object_n 11._o the_o sheep_n of_o christ_n hear_v his_o voice_n but_o stranger_n they_o will_v not_o hear_v john_n 10.3_o 8_o 27._o answ_n christ_n do_v not_o there_o speak_v of_o the_o outward_a hear_v but_o of_o the_o harken_v unto_o that_o be_v as_o he_o expound_v himself_o ver_fw-la 3_o 4_o 5_o 14_o 15_o 16_o 17._o of_o the_o know_v and_o beieve_v of_o his_o voice_n and_o follow_v it_o so_o chap._n 9_o i_o tell_v you_o before_o and_o you_o do_v not_o hear_v that_o be_v not_o believe_v ver_fw-la 27._o and_o god_n hear_v not_o sinner_n ver_fw-la 31._o that_o be_v approve_v not_o of_o they_o and_o their_o prayer_n so_o chap._n 11._o i_o know_v that_o thou_o hear_v i_o always_o and_o a_o thousand_o time_n in_o the_o scripture_n the_o drift_n of_o christ_n in_o the_o place_n be_v without_o question_n to_o show_v the_o difference_n between_o such_o as_o be_v his_o sheep_n and_o such_o as_o be_v not_o his_o sheep_n his_o sheep_n hear_v his_o vioce_fw-mi and_o they_o which_o be_v not_o his_o sheep_n hear_v not_o his_o voice_n but_o they_o which_o be_v not_o his_o sheep_n nor_o hear_v his_o voice_n as_o there_o he_o speak_v hear_v he_o preach_v outward_o as_o well_o as_o the_o rest_n which_o be_v his_o sheep_n