Selected quad for the lemma: church_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
church_n	catholic_n	particular_a	union_n	3,907	5	9.8315	5	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B04528	The lavvfulnes of hearing the publick ministers of the Church of England proved, by Mr. Philip Nye and Mr. John Robinson, two eminent Congregational divines. Together with the judgment of Dr. Goodwin, Dr. Owen, and other independents, as well ancient as modern, concerning forms of prayer, parish-churches, and communion with them: and the judgment of other nonconformists about kneeling at the sacrament.	Nye, Philip, 1596?-1672.; Robinson, John, 1575?-1625.	1683 (1683)	Wing N1496; ESTC R203023	37,350	46

for encouraging of such as shall be sent out to the several parts of the Nation in this great Work 2. There is a sum of Doctrinal Truths which in the Enlargement and Application are sufficient both for Conversion and Edification to which the Preachers are to assent and there is provision made by our Laws that such Persons only who are sound in the Faith be imployed therein 3. The Inhabitants of this Nation are required to be present and to give attendance to Instruction that they may Learn the Fear of the Lord. Assertion These things being so although some of us do enjoy the Instruction of our Pastors being in a Church-Relation yet it is a Duty that we and our Families frequent also as we have Liberty and Opportunity the more Publick and National Ministry for these Reasons Reason 1. Where the Lord hath appointed various Ways and Methods in which he will draw near to us and manifest himself we ought to make use of all in their place and season This is a several and distinct way or appointment of God not only in respect of God's Works and our Consciences but also in respect of the teachings of Church Officers as appears in these Particulars 1. The one is Cultus Naturalis from the first Commandment directed by the Light of Nature and the other is Cultus Institutus and a Duty of the second Commandment and our direction herein is only from Gospel Light 2. In respect of the Persons that are the primary Object of each Prophesying that is Church-Preaching serveth not for them that believe not but for them which believe It is principally for building for a Church-State supposeth them Believers though such preaching hath occasionally its efficacy in converting the Weak and more directly in relation to the Children of Members This National or Providential Preaching is principally for Conversion and hath for its primary and main Object Persons in their natural Condition such a Preacher was Noah 2 Pet. 2.5 1 Pet. 4.6 Mat. 16.3 Preaching is before Believing and Believing before any Church-Ordinance There were Preachers in all Nations and in every City before there were Churches in every City 3. The one is from Gifts only as necessarily requisite but Church-Instruction supposeth the Person to be not only of some eminency in Gifts but Grace also and set apart to Office according to Christ's appointment And now having seen the difference of these two Methods the Consequence will follow they ought to be attended with due reverence each of them Reason 2. As we are Members of Churches so we are Subjects and Members of this Common-Wealth and are obliged thereby to observe the lawful Command of our Governors and to be Examples therein to others As Members also of this Civil Body we ought to join with it in a thankful acknowledging this happy Providence of God by which we and our Children after us may be instructed which may be a means to have it continued and a neglect thereof would give just cause to fear the contrary Reason 3. If Church-Members or any one Godly Man hath a Warrant to forbear hearing such Ministers upon this account of unlawfulness then all Godly Men ought at all times so to do and if so the Examples of the Godly to the generality being very leading in the Matters of God this Ordinance thereby will be little frequented and of less efficacy to those that do come to it And by asserting it unlawful to hear such Ministers we imply it were better for the Nation there were no preaching but in particular Churches and if so what can we expect will become of many thousands in an ordinary way of Salvation that have no benefit at all by our Church-Instructions We are to walk wisely yea mercifully towards them that are without Objections Answered Object 1. Where there is no true Church there can be no true Ministry the Church of England is no true Church Ergo c. Answer There may be a Lawful and True Ministry or Administration of the saving Truths of God though the Nation or any parcels of it as yet be in no Church-State We say each particular Church materially considered is part of the Church Catholick The Matter must needs have being before the Form can be introduced No Man becomes a Member of the Catholick Church but by his effectual Calling and that is by preaching the Word I conclude therefore each particular Church to have its production from such an Administration and not this Ministry to have its original or state from the Church Object 2. The National Ministry is Antichristian derived from Rome Answer If Antichristian it 's either so from their Standing as deriving their Ordination thence of which in the third Consideration or from their Doctrine If any such Doctrine be preached it 's the miscarriage of particular Persons and contrary to the National Provision The Articles of Religion to which the Ministers are to conform their Instructions are Orthodox framed for the casting and keeping out of Popery Object 3. It offends our weak Brethren it is a complying with the Corruption of the Times it 's an approbation and encouragement to Conformity Answer These and other Objections of the like nature have their weight and place in practice when the matter is indifferent and may be done or left undone without Sin and not in relation to any moral Duty Though I know gathering of Churches in a Congregational way preaching without Ordination Baptizing of Infants and the like as well as hearing a Conforming-Minister are a great offence to some that are truly Godly yet may I not say If such a Fellowship if such Baptizing and the rest offend my Brother I will do no such thing while the World standeth lest I should offend It were sin so to resolve because these are moral Duties and not left to my liberty as Meats and the rest 1 Cor. 8.13 and Acts 8. wherein the nature of indifferent things is laid down Consideration II. About refraining a Moral Duty for the Evil mixed with it or in the Persons performing it 1. As we are not to do Evil that Good may come of it no more ought we to leave what is morally Good undone for the Evil that is some-way mixed with it Zeal for Good is to be preferred to that which is against Evil. The greatest Good is better than the greatest Evil is back What-ever good thing we do tends towards our Union with the chiefest Good the refraining of Evil not so immediately 2. Betwixt things indifferent and what is morally good you have this difference If there be any mixture of evil with the one it becomes wholly evil there is nothing of good in it to give stop or preponderate but what is morally good will remain so still though mixed with evil We may allay the worth of it as baser Metals mixed with Gold but yet it is Gold still and may be perfectly severed 3. When I would do good saith the

People in his holy Ordinances and half imagining that they draw near enough to God if they can withdraw far enough from other Men. Great Zeal they have against the false Church Ministry and Worship so being or by them conceived so to be and against any appearing evil in the true but little for that which is true and good as their practice manifests But Evil is as contrary to Evil as Good is to Evil and so is that Zeal plainly carnal which carries a Man further against Evil than for Good seeing no Evil is so evil as Good is good Fourthly There are some to be found so sowred with moodiness and discontentment as they become unsociable and almost Lukanthropoi Werewolfs as they speak if they see nothing lamentable they are ready to lament if they take contentment in any it is in them alone whom they find discontented if they reade any Books they are only Invectives especially against Publick States and their Governours All things tending to accord and union any manner of way are unwelcome unto them They have their Portion in Ishmael's Blessing Gen. 16.12 Lastly There want not some who as Jehu in his fierce marching covered his Ambition Cruelty and Zeal for his own House under pretext of Zeal for God's think to cover and palliate their both grosser and more proper and personal Corruptions under a furious March not only against the Failings but the Persons also failing of Infirmity in matters of Church-Order and Ordinances Who if they were well acquainted and duly affected with their own both more voluntary and greater Sins would slack their Jehu's Peace yea turn their Course tho not to walk with others in Evil which God forbid yet to apply and accommodate themselves unto them in that which is good so far as possibly they could observe any way by the Lord opened unto them I could instance in and name divers particular Persons monstrously grown out of kind this way But that Course I leave unto them who rather desire the disgracing than the bettering of them against whom they deal Or perhaps conceive in their leavened Hearts that there is no other way of bettering specially Persons of mean Condition than by disgracing them But let not my Soul come in their Secret in whose Habitations are such Instruments of Cruelty Gen. 49.5 6. These things thus premised the Objections follow which I have either heard from others or can conceive of my self most colourable against the Practice by me propounded And they are of two sorts Some of them are framed upon Supposition that the Ministers in that Church are in themselves lawful and of God but now yet to be heard by reason of the Abuses and Evils to be found in their Ministrations Others withdraw herein and those the more upon the contrary Supposition To wit that the very Order and Constitution of that Church and Ministry is Papal and unlawful Now the Examination of the Grounds of the one or other I will not in this place meddle with but though both cannot be true will for the satisfying of the with-drawers on both Parts grant for the present to either Part their Ground and so examine distinctly what Exceptions they can or do build thereupon But first for the former Supposing a Church and the Ministry thereof essentially lawful it cannot but be lawful for the Members of other Churches in general Union and Association with it to communicate therewith in things lawful and lawfully done seeing the end of Union is Communion God hath in vain united Persons and States together if they may in nothing communicate together But he who would have us receive the weak in Faith whom God hath received would not have us refuse the Fellowship of Churches in that which is good for any Weakness in them of one sort or other And this we have so plainly and plentifully commended unto us both by the Prophets yea by Christ himself in the Jewish Church and Apostles and Apostolical Men in the first Christian Churches in which many Errors and Evils of all kinds were more than manifest and the same oft-times both so far spread and deeply rooted as the reforming of them was rather to be wished than hoped for As that no place is left for doubting in that case by any who desire to follow their holy Steps in Faith towards God and Charity towards Men and effectual Desire of their own Edification The Objections of the former sort follow Object 1. There is danger of being seduced and misled by the Errors taught in the Assemblies Answ 1. We must not lose the Benefit of many main Truths taught for danger of some few Errors specially in lesser matters This were to fear the Devil more than to trust God 2. There were in the Jewish Church in Christ's time and in divers of the Apostolical Churches afterwards more and greater Errors taught than are in any or all the Churches in England of which also there are not a few which if their Ministers did as fully and faithfully teach and practise all Truths as they keep themselves carefully from Errors might compare in this Business with any reformed Church in Europe 3. This Exception hath its weight against the hearing of Priests and Jesuits specially by the weaker sort and less able to discern of things that differ But not against many Ministers of the Church of England Object 2. He that in any thing partakes with that Church in which Sins known are suffered unreformed partakes in all the Sins of that Church as he that swears by the Altar swears by the Offerings upon it which it sanctifies Mat. 23.19 20. Answ I partake not in the Sins of any how great or manifest soever the Sins be or how near unto me soever the Persons be except the same Sins either be committed or remain unreformed by my Fault Otherwise Christ our Lord had been inwrapped in the Guilt of a world of Sins in the Jewish Church with which Church he communicated in God's Ordinances living and dying a Member thereof If my Brother sin a scandalous Sin and I by just order make Complaint thereof to the Church I have done my Duty It appertains to the Church to excommunicate him if he repent not but not to me except Pope-like I would make my self the Church I am guilty of the Evil in the Commonwealth and Family for redressing whereof I do not my duty in my place which if I do in the Church as I can I am free from the Sins done and suffered there which Sins and Evils I can no more be said to suffer wanting power to reform them than to suffer it to blow or rain because I hinder it not But the proof of the Assertion from Mat. 13. is of admirable device How doth the Church sanctify the Sin of the Sinner as the Altar doth the Offering of the Offerer The Altar makes that to become actually an Offering or holy Gift which before was not an Offering actually but only Gold

Silver or other materials So doth not the Church make any Man's Sin to become his Sin which it was not before but only suffers the Sin that was But to strain the strings of this imagined proportion to make them meet and to suppose the Church in a sense to be as the Altar yet this only follows thereupon that as he who partakes with the Altar in the upholding of the Offering partakes with the Offering So he that partakes with the Church in the upholding of any Evil hath his part in the Evil also And this I grant willingly but deny as a most vain imagination that every one that partakes with a Church in things lawful joyns with it in upholding the things unlawful to be found in it Christ our Lord joyned with the Jewish Church in things lawful and yet upheld nothing unlawful in it Object 3. But this course of Hearing will offend weak Brethren not perswaded of the lawfulness of it Answ 1. It will offend more and many of them weaker and that more grievously if it be not performed 2. It is an Offence taken and not given seeing the thing is in it self good in its kind commanded by God and in that particular by Men in Authority and directly tending to my Edification and not like unto eating of Flesh or drinking of Wine or the like things of indifferent nature and left to my free liberty to use or not to use And these are the principal Objections upon the former Grounds They upon the latter follow There is in the hands of many a Treatise published by a Man of Note containing certain Reasons to prove it unlawful to hear or have Spiritual Communion with the present Ministry of the Church of England This hath been answered but indeed sophistically and in passion Neither hath the Answerer much regarded what he said or unsaid so he might gainsay his Adversary With that Answer was joyned another directed to my self and the same doubled pretending to prove Publick Communion upon Private but not pressing at all in the body of the Discourse that Consequence but proceeding upon other Grounds and in truth consisting of a continued Equivocation in the terms Publick Licence Government Ministry and the like drawn to another sense than either I intended them or than the matter in question will permit Whereas he that will refute another should religiously take and hold to his Adversaries meaning And if in any particular it be not so plainly set down should spell it as it were out of his words But it is no new thing even for Learned and Godly Men to take more than lawful Liberty in dealing with them against whom they have the Advantage of the Times favouring them like the Wind on their Backs But God forbid I should follow them herein I will on the contrary use all plainness and simplicity as in the sight of God that so I may make the naked Truth appear as it is to the Christian Reader 's Eye what in me lieth And for the Treatise mentioned it must be observed how both in the Title and body of the Book the Author confounds as one hearing of and having Spiritual Communion with the Ministery c. Which as it is true of such as stand in spiritual and political Church-Union with a Church and the Ministry thereof who accordingly have Church-Communion in the publick Acts and Exercises of that Church so is it not true of others which are not Members of nor in Ecclesiastical Union and Combination with the said Church For the better clearing of things let us in a few words consider distinctly of Religious Actions according to the several Ranks in which they may rightly and orderly be set Some such Actions are Religious only as they are performed by Religious Persons And of this sort is Hearing and so Reading of God's Word The Scriptures teach and all confess that Hearing of the Word of God goes before Faith For Faith comes by Hearing as by an outward means Rom. 10.7 Hearing then being before Faith and Faith before all other Acts of Religion inward or outward it must needs follow that Hearing is not simply or of it self a work of Religion and so not of Religious Communion Hearing is properly and of it self a natural Action though it be the hearing the very Word of God And I call it a natural Action in it self in a double respect First for that the Light of Nature teacheth every Man to hear and listen to another that can and will teach and inform him in any thing for his good divine or humane Secondly for that a meer natural Man Jew Turk Infidel or Idolater lawfully may yea necessarily ought to hear God's Word that so of natural he may become spiritual In the second rank I place Preaching and Prayer which are properly Acts religious and spiritual as being to be performed the one by a Gift the other by a Grace of God's Spirit Psal 50.16 17. Prov. 15.8 John 9.31 Of a third sort is the Paricipation in the Sacraments which ordinarily at least requires a Membership in some particular and Misterial Church in the Participant they being publick Church-Ordinances In a fourth Order I set the Power of Suffrage and Voice-giving in electing of Officers and cesuring of Offenders for which there is requisite an Interest of the Person so voting in that particular Church as a Member thereof Of the last sort is the Ministration of Sacraments which requires with the rest fore-mentioned a publick State of Ministry in the Person administring them Now for Preaching by some and Hearing by others which two always go together they may be and oft are performed without any Religious or Spiritual Communion at all passing between the Persons Preaching or Hearing When Paul preached to the superstitious Athenians shall we conceive he had Spiritual Communion with that Heathenish Assembly How much less had they Spiritual and Religious Communion with him who performed not so much as a Religious Work in their hearing As God gave any of them to believe they came into invisible or inwardly Spiritual Personal Communion with him as they came to make Personal Manifestation and Declaration of their Faith they came into outward Personal Communion with him Lastly as they came to joyn in or unto some particular Church into Church-Communion with him else not So when there comes into the Church-Assembly Vnbelievers Heathens Turks Jews Atheists Excommunicates Men of all Religions Men of none at all and there hear what spiritual Communion have they with the Church or State of the Teacher or one with another either in regard of the nature of the Act done or by God's Ordination and Institution Hearing simply is not appointed of God to be a Mark and Note either of Union in the same Faith or Order amongst all that hear or of differencing of Christians from no Christians or of Members from no Members of the Church as the Sacraments are Notes of both in the Participants The hearing

receiving to which they are sent by them And so I profess I hear them as the Ministers of the Bishop's sending and of the Parishes sent to but not as my Ministers either sending or sent to except I be of those Parishes or at least in Ecclesiastical Union with them Every one whether of a false Church or no Church or excommunicated from the Church that hears me hears me as the Pastor of the Church which I serve but not as his Pastor I suppose nor in way of any his spiritual Communion with mine Office of Pastorship Secondly By hearing and receiving there Christ's means properly the hearking to believing and obeying the Doctrine taught by the Apostles which many despised unto whom he opposeth the former that heard it Now the Ministers in the Parishes have not the Doctrines of the Gospel from the Bishops as they have their Office but from God in his Word and so far forth as a Man hears that is hearkens to and receives them by receiving it he so far hearkens to and receives Christ Object 5. Yet such as hear them have Communion with their Office of Ministry what in them lies Answ That is they have no Communion at all with it if it lie not in them to have any as it doth not If I hold up my Hand as high as I can I touch Heaven with my Finger what in me lies Do I therefore at all touch it If such think to have any such Communion it is their Error and Ignorance but makes not the thing to be the more than if they thought not so Object 6. Is there then no Communion at all between the Teacher and taught What Profit then comes there by such Hearing Answ The Church-Officer feeds the Flock and Church over which he is set as the Object of his Ministry such as come in being not in church-Church-Union therewith hear him so doing and as a Stander-by hearing me talk to or dispute with another tho I speak not a word to him may reap as much and more Fruit by my Speech than he to whom I direct it so may and doth it often come to pass with him that hears the Minister feed the Flock whose Minister he is tho he be no part of it He may reap Fruit by hearing him feed his Flock or seeing him minister Baptism to any Member thereof Here is Communion only in the effects of the Truths taught It were Usurpation in any to partake in a Church-Priviledg which the Office of Ministry is that were not in a Church-State first and so if hearing simply imported Church-Communion none but Church-Members might lawfully hear Object 7. In the true Church indeed is Order that the Church-Covenant go before Church-Communion but not so in the false Answ In the true Church there may be unlawful Church-Communion without a preceeding Church-Covenant as well as in the other to wit if an Act of Communion properly pass between the Church and him that is no Church-Member as for Example Participation in the Sacraments but hearing being not properly an Act of Communion cannot import Communion necessarily with the one or other not otherwise then according to a fore-going church-Church-Union whereas to partake in the Lord's Supper imports Communion in both lawful in him that is a lawful Church-Member and unlawful in him that is not in such a Church-State Object 8. But it is the Order of the Church of England that all that hear are and so are reputed Members of that Church Answ I deny that there is any such Order let the Law or Canon either be shewed that so orders things Excommunicates are permitted to hear Sermons tho not Divine Service as they call it 2. What if there were such an Order It no more either made or declared me to be a Member there than doth my dwelling in such or such a Parish make me a Member of that Parish-Church which latter is indeed the Law and Order there If the Church with me should make a Law Canon or Order that all that come in and hear me preach should thereby become Members of it we were the more foolish in making such an Order but they never a whit the nearer either for Membership or Communion Object 9. He that hears appears to have Communion with the Church and Ministry and all Appearance of Evil is to be avoided 1 Thess 5.22 Answ The Scripture is not to be understood of all that appears Evil to Others out of an erroneous and deceived Judgment for then we must abstain from almost all Good seeing there are some to whom almost all Good seems Evil but it is meant either of the Doctrine in Prophesy of which I have some probable Suspicion of which the Apostle seems properly to speak or of that which appears Evil to a rightly discerning eye By this imagined Exposition I might not hire a House in a Parish where I were not known seeing thereby I appear a Parish-member Object 10. None can hear without a Preacher nor Preach except he be sent Rom. 10.14 15. Therefore I cannot lawfully hear him that hath nat a lawful sending Answ That conclusion is neither in Text nor sound I may lawfully hear him that hath no lawful Calling as I have formerly shewed 2. The Apostle's meaning there is not to shew what is unlawful but what is impossible It is impossible to believe without hearing and impossible to hear without preaching and impossible to preach without the sending there intended that is without God's gracious work of Providence in raising up of Men by enabling and disopsing them to preach for the effectual calling of the Elect of God of which he there speaks If any make a Question Whether Faith come by the hearing of the Preachers there It is more questionable whether they themselves want not Faith which are so barren of Charity in which true Faith is fruitful If Faith come by the Preaching in England to any it follows thereupon that such Preachers are sent in the Apostle's sense Object 11. The Sheep of Christ hear his Voice but strangers they will not hear John 10.3 8 27. Answ Christ does not there speak of the outward Hearing but of the hearkning unto that is as he expounds himself ver 3 4 5 14 15 16 17. of the knowing and beieving of his Voice and following it So Chap. 9. I told you before and ye did not hear that is not believe ver 27. And God hears not Sinners ver 31. that is approves not of them and their Prayers So Chap. 11. I know that thou hearest me always and a thousand times in the Scriptures The drift of Christ in the place is without question to shew the difference between such as were his Sheep and such as were not his Sheep His Sheep heard his Vioce and they which were not his Sheep heard not his Voice But they which were not his Sheep nor heard his Voice as there he speaks heard him preach outwardly as well as the rest which were his Sheep