appointment_n of_o the_o rest_n one_o of_o they_o translate_v it_o into_o latin_n which_o be_v send_v to_o i_o and_o now_o be_v by_o he_o out_o of_o latin_a translate_v into_o english_a now_o that_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v how_o much_o he_o be_v abuse_v by_o this_o false_a translation_n of_o that_o writing_n i_o will_v publish_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o very_a writing_n itself_o verbatim_o without_o alteration_n of_o a_o syllable_n as_o i_o receive_v it_o from_o they_o and_o then_o compare_v this_o translation_n with_o it_o the_o latin_a copy_n word_n for_o word_n nos_fw-la infrascripti_a pastor_n ecclesiae_fw-la belgicae_fw-la in_o civitate_fw-la amsteldamensi_fw-la a_o viro_fw-la reverendo_fw-la d._n pageto_o fideli_fw-la pastore_fw-la in_o ecclesiâ_fw-la anglicanâ_fw-la ejusdem_fw-la civitatis_fw-la nec_fw-la non_fw-la a_o venerandis_fw-la fratribus_fw-la senioribus_fw-la ac_fw-la diaconis_fw-la ejusdem_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la anglicanae_n specialiter_fw-la requisiti_fw-la ac_fw-la fraternè_fw-la rogati_fw-la ut_fw-la privatum_fw-la nostrum_fw-la judicium_fw-la in_o causa_fw-la vocationis_fw-la quae_fw-la ab_fw-la universâ_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la praedictâ_fw-la videtur_fw-la expeti_fw-la reverendi_fw-la clarissimi_fw-it doctissimiq_fw-la viri_fw-la d._n davenportii_fw-la sincerè_fw-la declarare_fw-la atque_fw-la exponere_fw-la non_fw-la recusemus_fw-la idque_fw-la in_o casu_fw-la illo_fw-la unico_fw-la particulari_fw-la spectante_fw-la baptismum_fw-la eorum_fw-la infantium_fw-la qui_fw-la in_o ecclesiâ_fw-la anglicanâ_fw-la baptizandi_fw-la offeruntur_fw-la re_fw-mi totâ_fw-la utrinque_fw-la benè_fw-la intellectâ_fw-la ritè_fw-la perpensâ_fw-la et_fw-la ad_fw-la normam_fw-la verbi_fw-la dei_fw-la ordinemque_fw-la receptum_fw-la in_o ecclesijs_fw-la reformatis_fw-la harum_fw-la provinciarum_fw-la in_fw-la quibus_fw-la praedicta_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la anglicana_n seize_v membrum_fw-la profiretur_fw-la sub_fw-la class_n amsteldamensi_fw-la 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in_o religione_fw-la christianâ_fw-la instituendô_o quam_fw-la maximè_fw-la quidem_fw-la nobis_fw-la probari_fw-la de_fw-fr re_fw-mi ipsâ_fw-la tamen_fw-la ita_fw-la nos_fw-la statuere_fw-la ut_fw-la praedictum_fw-la illud_fw-la examen_fw-la quantum_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la anglicanae_n feret_fw-la aedificatio_fw-la instituatur_fw-la sed_fw-la si_fw-la fortè_fw-la vel_fw-la parent_n susceptoresve_fw-la istud_fw-la accedere_fw-la ac_fw-la subire_fw-la renuant_fw-la vel_fw-la ob_fw-la temporis_fw-la brevitatem_fw-la aut_fw-la alijs_fw-la justis_fw-la de_fw-la causis_fw-la fieri_fw-la illud_fw-la non_fw-la queat_fw-la vel_fw-la etiam_fw-la qui_fw-la accesserint_fw-la fratris_fw-la vel_fw-la fratrum_fw-la examinantium_fw-la judicio_fw-la non_fw-la videbuntur_fw-la pro_fw-la isto_fw-la tempore_fw-la satisfacere_fw-la ipse_fw-la infans_fw-la cujus_fw-la parent_n susceptoresve_fw-la constat_fw-la esse_fw-la christianos_n quique_fw-la christianam_fw-la religionem_fw-la ad_fw-la lectionem_fw-la liturgiae_fw-la sacramenti_fw-la baptismi_fw-la publicè_fw-la coram_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la profitentur_fw-la a_o baptismo_fw-la propterea_fw-la minime_fw-la arceatur_fw-la aut_fw-la baptizarì_n recusetur_fw-la sed_fw-la ut_fw-la ejusmodi_fw-la ignorantes_fw-la parent_n susceptoresve_fw-la post_fw-la infantem_fw-la baptizatum_fw-la ulterÄus_fw-la postea_fw-la quoad_fw-la fieri_fw-la potest_fw-la edoceantur_fw-la quoniam_fw-la scilicet_fw-la infant_n christianorum_fw-la suorum_fw-la parentum_fw-la susceptorumve_fw-la vel_fw-la inscitiam_fw-la vel_fw-la etiam_fw-la ejusmodi_fw-la inobedientiam_fw-la far_o ac_fw-la luere_fw-la non_fw-la debent_fw-la si_fw-mi quis_fw-la tamen_fw-la casus_fw-la ullus_fw-la alius_fw-la obveniat_fw-la quo_fw-la minus_fw-la infans_fw-la oblatus_fw-la baptizandus_fw-la videatur_fw-la ut_fw-la tum_fw-la totius_fw-la presbyterij_fw-la anglicani_n vel_fw-la etiam_fw-la si_fw-la necesse_fw-la fuerit_fw-la aut_fw-la commodè_fw-la fieri_fw-la possit_fw-la classis_fw-la amsteldamensis_n judicium_fw-la interveniat_fw-la audiatur_fw-la atque_fw-la in_o eo_fw-la acquiescatur_fw-la sic_fw-la actum_fw-la et_fw-la transactum_fw-la in_o aedibus_fw-la d._n pageti_fw-la die_v 20._o januarij_fw-la 1634._o joannes_n le_fw-fr mairius_n jacobus_n triglandius_n henricus_fw-la geldorpius_fw-la rudolphus_n petri._n jacobus_n laurentius_n 2._o the_o translation_n word_n for_o word_n we_o the_o underwritten_a minister_n of_o the_o dutch_a church_n in_o the_o city_n of_o amsterdam_n be_v special_o and_o love_o request_v and_o desire_v of_o the_o reverend_a mr._n paget_n a_o faithful_a pastor_n iâ—_n the_o english_a church_n of_o the_o same_o city_n as_o also_o the_o the_o reverend_a brethren_n the_o elder_n and_o deacon_n of_o the_o same_o english_a church_n that_o we_o will_v not_o refuse_v sincere_o to_o declare_v &_o show_v our_o private_a judgement_n about_o the_o call_n of_o the_o reverend_n most_o famous_a &_o learned_a mr._n davenport_n which_o seem_v to_o be_v desire_v of_o the_o whole_a church_n aforesaid_a and_o that_o in_o this_o particular_a case_n alone_o concern_v the_o baptism_n of_o those_o infant_n which_o be_v offer_v to_o be_v baptize_v in_o the_o english_a church_n have_v well_o understand_v and_o due_o weigh_v the_o whole_a matter_n on_o both_o side_n and_o have_v thorough_o examine_v it_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o god_n word_n and_o the_o order_n receive_v in_o the_o reform_a church_n of_o these_o province_n in_o which_o the_o aforesaid_a english_a church_n do_v profess_v itself_o a_o member_n under_o the_o classis_fw-la of_o amsterdam_n we_o do_v sincere_o and_o in_o the_o presence_n of_o god_n with_o good_a conscience_n answer_n and_o declare_v that_o we_o desire_v nothing_o more_o then_o that_o the_o aforesaid_a mr._n davenport_n who_o notable_a learning_n and_o singular_a piety_n be_v much_o approve_a and_o commend_v of_o all_o the_o english_a our_o brethren_n who_o also_o in_o this_o regard_n and_o for_o his_o other_o commendable_a gift_n we_o understand_v to_o be_v most_o dear_a unto_o mr._n paget_n may_v be_v lawful_o promote_v unto_o the_o ministry_n of_o the_o english_a church_n aforesaid_a we_o do_v also_o great_o approve_v of_o his_o good_a zeal_n and_o care_n of_o have_v some_o precedent_n private_a examination_n of_o the_o parent_n and_o surety_n of_o these_o child_n in_o the_o christian_a religion_n yet_o touch_v the_o matter_n itself_o we_o do_v so_o judge_v that_o this_o aforesaid_a examination_n be_v ordain_v so_o far_o as_o may_v stand_v with_o the_o edification_n of_o the_o english_a church_n but_o if_o haply_o the_o parent_n or_o surety_n shall_v refuse_v to_o come_v and_o undergo_v this_o examination_n or_o if_o for_o the_o shortness_n of_o time_n or_o for_o other_o just_a cause_n it_o can_v not_o be_v do_v or_o if_o those_o that_o do_v come_v shall_v not_o seem_v for_o that_o time_n to_o satisfy_v the_o judgement_n of_o the_o brethren_n one_o or_o more_o that_o do_v 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amsterdam_n be_v obtain_v and_o rest_v in_o so_o be_v it_o do_v and_o transact_v in_o the_o house_n of_o mr._n paget_n the_o 28._o day_n of_o january_n 1634._o here_o it_o must_v be_v noated_a that_o the_o answerer_n pretend_v to_o publish_v this_o writing_n 1._o so_o as_o it_o be_v do_v and_o transact_v in_o his_o house_n the_o 28._o day_n of_o january_n 1634._o 2._o so_o as_o it_o be_v write_v down_o and_o read_v before_o he_o when_o they_o inquire_v of_o he_o whether_o he_o for_o his_o part_n do_v rest_n therein_o and_o he_o signify_v his_o consent_n with_o they_o these_o thing_n be_v premise_v i_o demand_v by_o what_o pretence_n will_v the_o answerer_n defend_v or_o excuse_v this_o his_o translation_n let_v i_o without_o offence_n desire_v to_o know_v why_o he_o have_v translate_v quorum_n parent_n susceptoresve_fw-la constat_fw-la esse_fw-la christianos_n who_o parent_n and_o surety_n be_v
place_n act_n 6._o and_o 14_o which_o if_o he_o have_v diverse_a time_n teach_v they_o as_o he_o say_v the_o necessity_n of_o the_o free_a consent_n of_o the_o people_n unto_o the_o lawful_a call_n of_o a_o minister_n out_o of_o those_o text_n may_v be_v questionable_a yet_o will_v it_o thence_o follow_v that_o therefore_o they_o may_v be_v deprive_v of_o man_n who_o they_o have_v choose_v or_o desire_v to_o choose_v without_o just_a and_o sufficient_a cause_n i_o suppose_v not_o reply_n pag._n 22._o ans_fw-fr 8._o reply_n his_o eight_o and_o last_o answer_n be_v already_o examine_v and_o reply_v upon_o and_o declare_v to_o be_v contradictory_n to_o himself_o in_o my_o reply_n to_o the_o three_o answer_n concern_v their_o suppose_a silence_n if_o they_o can_v have_v bring_v i_o in_o according_a to_o this_o order_n thither_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n so_o much_o shall_v serve_v for_o the_o four_o section_n the_o answer_n to_o the_o five_o section_n examine_v in_o this_o section_n 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and_o bondage_n of_o this_o church_n these_o be_v his_o own_o word_n what_o have_v the_o complainant_n or_o i_o say_v more_o than_o this_o that_o be_v a_o burden_n which_o cause_v weariness_n to_o he_o that_o bear_v it_o weariness_n arise_v from_o the_o disproportion_n between_o the_o faculty_n and_o the_o object_n hence_o be_v pain_n in_o the_o subject_n and_o thence_o be_v complaint_n which_o be_v more_o grievous_a as_o the_o burden_n be_v more_o painful_a and_o as_o corporal_a burden_n be_v make_v intolerable_a to_o the_o body_n by_o addition_n of_o weight_n so_o be_v inward_a burden_n to_o the_o mind_n by_o accession_n of_o aggravate_v consideration_n and_o in_o this_o case_n the_o concurrence_n of_o many_o respect_n make_v the_o burden_n they_o complain_v of_o exceed_v grievous_a as_o their_o love_n to_o god_n to_o the_o church_n to_o our_o nation_n to_o their_o oppose_a brethren_n and_o to_o themselves_o first_o their_o love_n to_o god_n stir_v up_o indignation_n in_o they_o when_o they_o see_v his_o servant_n injury_v and_o according_a to_o the_o height_n of_o their_o esteem_n of_o the_o man_n be_v the_o deepens_n of_o their_o sense_n of_o their_o injury_n their_o injury_n they_o express_v to_o be_v his_o reject_v and_o oppose_v they_o their_o own_o esteem_n of_o the_o man_n they_o declare_v in_o still_v they_o the_o most_o worthy_a servant_n of_o god_n such_o superlative_a and_o exuperant_fw-la title_n the_o person_n to_o who_o they_o be_v apply_v dare_v not_o assume_v to_o themselves_o acknowledge_v themselves_o to_o be_v unproffitable_a servant_n and_o not_o worthy_a of_o that_o high_a honour_n to_o be_v call_v the_o servant_n of_o such_o a_o god_n yet_o the_o person_n who_o thus_o describe_v they_o show_v a_o great_a esteem_n of_o they_o to_o see_v such_o disgraceful_o use_v not_o by_o ammonite_n as_o david_n servant_n be_v 10.2.4.5_o 2._o sam._n 10.2.4.5_o through_o causeless_o jealousy_n but_o by_o israelite_n and_o to_o be_v smite_v by_o their_o fellow_n servant_n to_o the_o hindrance_n of_o the_o lord_n work_v and_o the_o furtherance_n of_o satan_n project_n be_v very_o grievous_a second_o their_o love_n to_o the_o church_n stir_v up_o zeal_n in_o they_o to_o promove_v the_o good_a thereof_o by_o all_o possible_a endeavour_n both_o for_o their_o brethren_n and_o companion_n sake_n 122._o psal_n 122._o and_o because_o of_o the_o house_n of_o the_o lord_n our_o god_n whence_o their_o grief_n be_v increase_v if_o in_o deavour_n prove_v success_n especial_o when_o they_o be_v deny_v those_o man_n who_o god_n seem_v to_o cast_v upon_o they_o and_o the_o church_n unanimous_o desire_v to_o the_o hindrance_n of_o the_o church_n peace_n and_o aedification_n and_o when_o that_o be_v do_v not_o against_o some_o one_o but_o against_o many_o nor_o once_o only_o but_o often_o three_o their_o love_n to_o their_o nation_n and_o country_n stir_v up_o emulation_n &_o cause_v much_o grief_n &_o discontentment_n in_o they_o at_o any_o thing_n that_o may_v reflect_v reproach_n or_o disgrace_n upon_o the_o same_o as_o contention_n among_o they_o which_o by_o these_o action_n be_v make_v unavoidable_a will_v do_v especial_o in_o such_o a_o place_n as_o amsterdam_n where_o so_o many_o nation_n live_v in_o concord_n among_o themselves_o and_o with_o other_o be_v observer_n and_o admirer_n at_o the_o unnaturalnes_n of_o some_o of_o we_o to_o their_o own_o countryman_n four_o their_o love_n to_o their_o reject_a and_o oppose_v brethren_n stir_v up_o compassion_n in_o they_o for_o who_o can_v look_v upon_o a_o silly_a sheep_n scratch_v in_o a_o hedge_n of_o thorn_n whither_o it_o flee_v for_o shelter_n without_o pity_n and_o if_o job_n complaint_n be_v able_a to_o affect_v any_o tender_a spirit_n when_o he_o say_v to_o he_o ehat_fw-la be_v afflict_v pity_n shall_v be_v show_v from_o his_o brethren_n 6.14.15_o job._n 6.14.15_o but_o my_o brethren_n have_v deal_v deceitful_o as_o a_o brook_n which_o be_v then_o empty_a when_o the_o season_n be_v hot_a and_o the_o weary_a travayler_n be_v in_o great_a thirst_n much_o more_o will_v this_o stir_v up_o sympathy_n in_o a_o merciful_a heart_n to_o see_v brethren_n not_o only_o like_a water_n that_o fail_v but_o as_o a_o violent_a stream_n that_o threaten_v to_o overflow_v and_o drown_v those_o that_o shall_v be_v refresh_v to_o reject_v and_o oppose_v those_o that_o shall_v be_v receive_v &_o cherish_v five_o their_o love_n to_o themselves_o and_o to_o those_o that_o depend_v upon_o they_o stir_v up_o great_a desire_n in_o they_o to_o enjoy_v those_o mean_n which_o they_o have_v find_v bless_v to_o they_o to_o some_o of_o they_o for_o their_o effectual_a call_n to_o the_o obedience_n of_o faith_n too_o other_o of_o they_o for_o their_o building_n up_o and_o strengthen_v in_o their_o most_o holy_a faith_n hence_o their_o grief_n be_v increase_v when_o they_o see_v themselves_o deprive_v of_o that_o which_o they_o have_v find_v so_o good_a &_o profitable_a as_o for_o his_o gird_v epithet_n in_o the_o next_o word_n against_o my_o person_n and_o their_o expression_n i_o pass_v it_o by_o pity_v his_o distemper_n whereas_o he_o say_v that_o in_o the_o reproof_n of_o these_o complainants_n mr._n d._n may_v in_o part_n read_v his_o own_o it_o concern_v i_o the_o more_o strict_o and_o particular_o to_o examine_v the_o follow_a passage_n that_o i_o may_v see_v how_o just_o he_o reprove_v i_o be_v prepare_v in_o some_o good_a measure_n i_o hope_v to_o bear_v patient_o and_o receive_v thanckful_o a_o just_a reproof_n and_o to_o hold_v forth_o the_o truth_n &_o my_o own_o innocency_n against_o unjust_a reproach_n not_o respect_v any_o man_n person_n in_o discharge_n of_o my_o bind_a duty_n we_o will_v therefore_o exact_o observe_v his_o method_n and_o examine_v his_o pretend_a answer_n 1_o to_o general_a assertion_n 2_o to_o the_o particular_a instance_n several_o consider_v and_o apart_o 1._o his_o pretend_a answer_n to_o that_o which_o be_v object_v concern_v these_o instance_n joint_o consider_v and_o in_o general_n the_o thing_n object_v or_o complain_v of_o be_v that_o the_o church_n be_v by_o the_o answerer_n deprive_v of_o her_o due_a liberty_n and_o power_n in_o the_o free_a choice_n of_o a_o pastor_n while_o man_n desire_v by_o the_o church_n general_o be_v by_o he_o reject_v and_o oppose_v without_o sufficient_a cause_n this_o we_o prove_v say_v they_o by_o his_o reject_v and_o oppose_v the_o most_o worthy_a servant_n of_o god_n who_o come_v out_o of_o england_n for_o the_o same_o cause_n he_o do_v who_o the_o church_n with_o one_o consent_n desire_a as_o mr._n h._n and_o mr._n d._n of_o late_a time_n as_o also_o mr._n pa_n dr._n a._n mr._n f._n mr._n p._n etc._n etc._n now_o let_v we_o see_v what_o he_o answer_v ans_fw-fr 1_o general_o concern_v they_o all_o joint_o consider_v and_o thereunto_o he_o seem_v to_o
8_o particular_n to_o which_o i_o will_v answer_v several_o and_o brief_o to_o the_o first_o that_o they_o charge_v he_o with_o press_v other_o upon_o the_o congregation_n in_o answer_n ans_fw-fr whereunto_o he_o say_v i_o do_v not_o claim_v any_o more_o to_o myself_o than_o one_o voice_n nor_o do_v they_o charge_v he_o to_o arrogate_v 2_o voice_n but_o who_o know_v not_o that_o some_o one_o voice_n may_v drown_v many_o voice_n reply_n as_o appear_v in_o sundry_a passage_n in_o their_o consistory_n ans_fw-fr to_o the_o second_o that_o he_o abuse_v his_o interest_n in_o the_o magistrate_n and_o classis_fw-la he_o answer_v reply_v not_o by_o deny_v it_o but_o by_o call_v for_o witness_n whereas_o what_o need_v witness_n when_o the_o fact_n itself_o prove_v it_o as_o the_o examination_n of_o the_o former_a sect_n evince_v ans_fw-fr to_o the_o three_o that_o he_o say_v reply_v they_o involve_v the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o same_o guilt_n with_o he_o 1._o their_o own_o word_n show_v that_o their_o complaint_n be_v against_o he_o not_o the_o magistrate_n and_o so_o the_o imputation_n of_o slander_n may_v be_v retort_v upon_o himself_o this_o will_v be_v more_o full_o clear_v in_o the_o reply_n to_o the_o 6._o answer_n where_o the_o difference_n between_o the_o magistrate_n require_v of_o this_o and_o his_o press_v of_o it_o will_v appear_v 2._o nor_o be_v it_o so_o rare_a a_o case_n as_o be_v pretend_v that_o man_n interest_n in_o good_a magistrate_n may_v be_v abuse_v be_v not_o the_o emperor_n constantius_n abuse_v by_o the_o arrian_n under_o their_o show_n of_o gravity_n to_o side_n with_o they_o against_o the_o orthodox_n though_o the_o great_a number_n by_o far_o in_o the_o synod_n at_o ariminum_n ans_fw-fr to_o the_o four_o that_o they_o extend_v this_o complaint_n to_o the_o classis_fw-la also_o what_o offence_n be_v there_o in_o this_o he_o add_v as_o if_o they_o be_v general_o so_o blind_a and_o corrupt_a as_o to_o suffer_v themselves_o to_o be_v abuse_v by_o i_o reply_n as_o though_o learned_a and_o godly_a man_n may_v not_o be_v abuse_v by_o their_o good_a persuasion_n of_o another_o good_a intention_n to_o take_v part_n with_o he_o against_o those_o that_o be_v godly_a without_o cause_n 6.9_o sozom._n 8.14_o socrat._v 6.9_o do_v not_o theophilus_n of_o alexandria_n by_o his_o policy_n prevail_v with_o epiphanius_n a_o man_n of_o much_o integrity_n to_o take_v his_o part_n against_o chrysostom_n whereby_o he_o prevayl_v to_o procure_v his_o banishment_n out_o of_o constantinople_n to_o the_o great_a grief_n of_o the_o godly_a which_o also_o cause_v much_o calamity_n in_o the_o church_n and_o civil_a state_n ans_fw-fr to_o the_o five_o that_o he_o say_v their_o reproach_n serve_v to_o the_o clear_n of_o he_o and_o that_o those_o that_o be_v unpartial_a and_o wise_a in_o heart_n may_v conceive_v hereby_o that_o he_o have_v obtain_v this_o interest_n in_o they_o not_o by_o abuse_v and_o corrupt_v they_o but_o by_o walk_v upright_o before_o they_o reply_n the_o complainants_n do_v not_o say_v that_o he_o get_v his_o interest_n either_o in_o magistrate_n or_o minister_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la by_o abuse_v &_o corrupt_v they_o but_z that_o he_o abuse_v the_o interest_n which_o he_o have_v get_v in_o they_o to_o the_o injury_n of_o the_o church_n 2._o nor_o be_v a_o interest_n in_o wise_a and_o godly_a man_n a_o infallible_a sign_n of_o upright_a walk_n indeed_o interest_n in_o god_n be_v a_o sign_n of_o uprightnes_n as_o in_o noah_n abraham_n job_n moses_n samuel_n david_n etc._n etc._n because_o the_o lord_n search_v the_o heart_n and_o know_v our_o thought_n afar_o off_o but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o in_o man_n acceptance_n who_o judge_v by_o the_o outward_a appearance_n be_v often_o deceive_v and_o may_v be_v delude_v by_o false_a pretence_n be_v not_o david_n a_o wise_a king_n and_o yet_o ziba_n abuse_v his_o interest_n in_o he_o and_z by_o misinform_v he_o cause_v he_o to_o do_v a_o injury_n to_o mephiboseth_n the_o church_n to_o who_o john_n the_o divine_a write_v be_v not_o destitute_a of_o wise_a man_n and_o of_o man_n able_a to_o judge_v yet_o diotrephes_n so_o far_o abuse_v his_o interest_n in_o they_o as_o the_o apostle_n describe_v 9.10_o 3._o john_n 9.10_o say_v i_o write_v unto_o the_o church_n but_o diotrephes_n that_o love_v to_o have_v the_o pre-eminence_n among_o they_o receive_v we_o not_o wherefore_o if_o i_o come_v i_o will_v remember_v his_o deed_n which_o he_o do_v prate_v against_o we_o with_o malicious_a word_n and_o not_o content_a therewith_o neither_o do_v he_o himself_o receive_v the_o brethren_n and_o forbid_v they_o that_o will_v and_o cast_v they_o out_o of_o the_o church_n boath_n those_o have_v a_o interest_n the_o one_o in_o the_o magistrate_n the_o other_o in_o the_o church_n which_o they_o abuse_v but_o i_o produce_v these_o example_n not_o to_o compare_v the_o answerer_n with_o they_o but_o only_o to_o show_v that_o a_o interest_n may_v be_v get_v with_o wise_a and_o good_a man_n without_o upright_o walk_v and_o therefore_o this_o be_v no_o necessary_a consequence_n to_o the_o six_o and_o seven_o where_o he_o show_v what_o order_n the_o magistrate_n set_v down_o about_o have_v one_o that_o can_v speak_v dutch._n the_o story_n which_o here_o he_o relate_v clear_v three_o point_n 1._o that_o it_o be_v no_o slander_n when_o they_o say_v that_o none_o of_o our_o nation_n that_o come_v immediate_o from_o england_n though_o never_o so_o fit_a and_o able_a shall_v be_v admit_v but_o they_o must_v be_v force_v to_o take_v one_o that_o can_v speak_v dutch._n himself_o in_o relate_v the_o story_n confess_v this_o to_o be_v no_o slander_n but_o a_o truth_n 2._o that_o it_o be_v no_o slander_n when_o they_o complain_v of_o he_o as_o guilty_a of_o this_o injury_n for_o beside_o what_o he_o have_v do_v towards_o the_o procure_n of_o this_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o he_o be_v so_o far_o from_o plead_v or_o stir_v up_o the_o elder_n to_o join_v with_o he_o in_o petition_n for_o the_o alter_n of_o this_o order_n as_o that_o he_o plead_v for_o it_o though_o they_o say_v it_o be_v to_o the_o unspeakeakle_n injury_n and_o grief_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o that_o it_o be_v no_o slander_n that_o they_o complain_v of_o the_o answerer_n for_o this_o and_o not_o of_o the_o magistrate_n see_v he_o urge_v it_o more_o vehement_o than_o they_o seem_v to_o do_v for_o they_o propound_v it_o as_o a_o matter_n only_o in_o some_o respect_n convenient_a that_o the_o english_a preacher_n speak_v dutch_a but_o he_o press_v it_o as_o necessary_a the_o former_a appear_v three_o way_n 1._o in_o that_o caution_n which_o they_o give_v if_o it_o be_v possible_a wherein_o i_o suppose_v they_o mean_v with_o the_o consent_n and_o approbation_n of_o the_o church_n for_o otherwise_o if_o they_o will_v obtrude_v one_o upom_n they_o they_o need_v not_o put_v in_o that_o proviso_n 2._o in_o the_o reason_n which_o they_o give_v for_o that_o they_o be_v desire_n which_o do_v imply_v only_o a_o expediency_n viz_o that_o he_o may_v debate_v matter_n with_o the_o classis_fw-la and_o treat_v with_o the_o magistrate_n on_o the_o church_n behalf_n as_o occasion_n shall_v require_v which_o a_o man_n may_v do_v by_o learn_v the_o language_n after_o he_o be_v settle_v though_o he_o have_v no_o dutch_a before_o 3._o in_o they_o be_v indulgence_n to_o i_o which_o the_o answerer_n acknowledge_v in_o sa_v that_o they_o be_v content_a to_o dispense_v with_o my_o want_n of_o the_o dutch_a language_n which_o show_v that_o they_o account_v it_o but_o a_o expediency_n with_o which_o they_o will_v dispense_v in_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n the_o latter_a viz_o 31.6_o p._n 31.6_o that_o the_o answerer_n press_v it_o as_o a_o matter_n necessary_a appear_v in_o his_o own_o word_n when_o he_o say_v that_o a_o minister_v call_v to_o this_o place_n which_o can_v not_o speak_v dutch_a be_v in_o great_a measure_n no_o better_a than_o a_o dumb_a minister_n in_o respect_n of_o one_o special_a work_n of_o his_o call_n which_o be_v to_o give_v advise_v etc._n etc._n in_o the_o classis_fw-la if_o to_o sit_v in_o the_o dutch_a classis_fw-la etc._n etc._n be_v one_o special_a work_n of_o the_o english_a minister_n call_v then_o indeed_o his_o ability_n to_o speak_v dutch_a be_v a_o necessary_a requisite_a without_o which_o he_o be_v but_o a_o dumb_a minister_n but_o how_o will_v this_o be_v prove_v for_o 1._o paul_n in_o his_o epistle_n to_o timothy_n and_o titus_n and_o in_o the_o rest_n of_o his_o epistle_n speak_v nothing_o of_o this_o property_n or_o duty_n nor_o be_v it_o any_o where_o else_o in_o scripture_n reveal_v to_o be_v necessary_a how_o then_o be_v it_o a_o special_a work_n of_o his_o call_n 2._o the_o magistrate_n do_v not_o press_v this_o sit_v in_o
chrism_n and_o exorcism_n although_o ancient_a be_v well_o abolish_v we_o will_v desire_v also_o that_o not_o only_o superfluous_a but_o also_o unfit_a question_n be_v omit_v also_o although_o augustine_n in_o a_o certain_a epistle_n will_v excuse_v it_o with_o a_o certain_a interpretation_n but_o he_o call_v it_o infirmum_fw-la commentum_fw-la and_o that_o fit_o and_o therefore_o the_o practice_n of_o those_o church_n in_o put_v the_o question_n to_o the_o father_n of_o the_o child_n be_v more_o suitable_a to_o the_o rule_n because_o in_o the_o covenant_n which_o god_n make_v with_o the_o parent_n the_o right_a of_o the_o infant_n to_o baptism_n be_v found_v and_o the_o power_n and_o care_n of_o educate_v the_o child_n in_o that_o faith_n lie_v upon_o they_o to_o let_v pass_v this_o digression_n the_o custom_n of_o those_o time_n concern_v man_n of_o year_n though_o it_o do_v not_o every_o way_n touch_v the_o case_n of_o infant_n yet_o it_o show_v the_o piety_n of_o those_o time_n and_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o ancient_n concern_v the_o point_n in_o question_n de_fw-fr suscipientibus_fw-la baptismum_fw-la and_o howsoever_o in_o those_o time_n some_o superstitious_a rite_n be_v use_v in_o baptism_n and_o some_o error_n in_o doctrine_n be_v to_o be_v find_v concern_v the_o absolute_a necessity_n of_o baptism_n to_o salvation_n yet_o not_o one_o of_o they_o so_o far_o as_o my_o small_a read_n have_v enable_v i_o to_o discover_v defend_v such_o a_o promiscuous_a administration_n of_o it_o as_o that_o writing_n of_o the_o five_o minister_n require_v as_o necessary_a or_o lawful_a but_o if_o any_o man_n will_v wrest_v that_o conclusion_n of_o those_o ancient_n in_o cyprian_a to_o patronize_v this_o course_n whereof_o cyprian_n speak_v thus_o 10._o cyprian_a lib._n 3._o epist_n 10._o haec_fw-la fuit_fw-la in_o concilio_fw-la nostra_fw-la sententia_fw-la a_o baptismo_fw-la atque_fw-la a_o gratiâ_fw-la dei_fw-la qui_fw-la omnibus_fw-la misericors_fw-la &_o benignus_fw-la &_o pius_fw-la est_fw-la neminem_fw-la per_fw-la nos_fw-la debere_fw-la prohiberi_fw-la let_v he_o know_v that_o those_o word_n if_o they_o be_v take_v apart_o from_o the_o rest_n may_v seem_v to_o favour_v the_o error_n of_o universal_a grace_n as_o well_o as_o promiscuous_a baptise_v and_o indeed_o they_o countenance_v boath_n alike_o that_o be_v neither_o of_o they_o at_o all_o be_v consider_v in_o cyprian_n intendment_n in_o that_o epistle_n which_o be_v to_o answer_v fidus_n who_o hold_v that_o infant_n of_o two_o or_o three_o day_n old_a ought_v not_o to_o be_v baptize_v argue_v from_o circumcision_n which_o be_v not_o administer_v till_o the_o eight_o day_n and_o from_o the_o bodily_a uncleanenes_n of_o infant_n at_o that_o age_n cyprian_a in_o answer_n to_o his_o first_o argument_n show_v he_o that_o circumcision_n be_v a_o shadow_n which_o be_v now_o vanish_v and_o in_o answer_n to_o the_o second_o use_v those_o word_n act_n 10.15_o and_o conclude_v thus_o si_fw-mi etiam_fw-la gravissimis_fw-la delictoribus_fw-la etc._n etc._n if_o remission_n of_o sin_n be_v give_v to_o the_o most_o grievous_a sinner_n when_o they_o afterward_o believe_v and_o repent_v and_o baptism_n be_v not_o deny_v to_o they_o how_o much_o more_o ought_v it_o not_o to_o be_v deny_v such_o infant_n they_o that_o know_v how_o straight_o cyprian_n be_v in_o nullify_a the_o baptism_n of_o those_o who_o have_v be_v baptize_v by_o heretic_n and_o such_o as_o be_v out_o of_o the_o church_n can_v imagine_v that_o any_o help_n may_v be_v expect_v from_o he_o for_o warrant_v the_o administer_a of_o baptism_n to_o their_o infant_n who_o be_v out_o of_o the_o covenant_n now_o if_o any_o think_v that_o there_o be_v some_o colour_n for_o the_o justify_n of_o this_o course_n to_o be_v find_v in_o the_o capitulation_n of_o charles_n king_n of_o sicily_n with_o the_o saracen_n 1._o speed_n chron_n lib._n 9_o cap._n 10._o in_o the_o life_n of_o edw._n 1._o at_o the_o siege_n of_o tunis_n in_o africa_n the_o three_o article_n whereof_o be_v that_o such_o as_o be_v willing_a might_n free_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n let_v he_o understand_v that_o that_o agreement_n be_v only_o to_o establish_v the_o free_a excercise_n of_o christian_a religion_n not_o to_o warrant_v promiscuous_a baptise_v which_o be_v not_o at_o all_o in_o question_n at_o that_o time_n thus_o the_o record_n of_o ancient_a time_n be_v against_o this_o disorderly_a custom_n and_o concern_v the_o judgement_n of_o late_a time_n since_o the_o reformation_n if_o enough_o have_v not_o be_v say_v already_o more_o shall_v be_v add_v in_o answer_n to_o the_o seven_o pretence_n only_o that_o i_o may_v omit_v nothing_o that_o i_o meet_v with_o in_o my_o read_n which_o may_v seem_v to_o carry_v any_o colour_n of_o favour_v that_o custom_n though_o but_o in_o the_o letter_n i_o have_v produce_v those_o two_o instance_n of_o former_a time_n and_o will_v now_o add_v to_o they_o two_o or_o three_o of_o latter_a time_n in_o who_o i_o purpose_v not_o to_o examine_v or_o censure_v their_o expression_n but_o only_o to_o show_v that_o this_o evil_a custom_n be_v not_o maintain_v nor_o to_o be_v defend_v by_o what_o they_o have_v write_v first_o i_o will_v begin_v with_o that_o question_n which_o exercise_v the_o minister_n that_o meet_v in_o the_o classis_fw-la at_o neocomum_n 9_o beza_n epist_n 9_o whether_o the_o infant_n of_o excommunicate_n be_v to_o be_v baptize_v and_o in_o who_o faith_n see_v their_o parent_n be_v not_o member_n of_o the_o church_n the_o occasion_n whereof_o be_v this_o a_o certain_a man_n of_o a_o very_a wicked_a life_n have_v 4_o bastard_n and_o thrice_o deceive_v the_o church_n with_o hypocritical_a confession_n and_o promise_n be_v excommunicate_v together_o with_o his_o harlot_n the_o question_n be_v whether_o the_o four_o bastard_n beget_v after_o their_o excommunication_n shall_v be_v baptize_v the_o minister_n of_o that_o classis_fw-la declare_v their_o judgement_n which_o they_o send_v in_o a_o letter_n to_o beza_n thus_o we_o be_v of_o opinion_n that_o the_o infant_n be_v bear_v of_o such_o desperate_a parent_n be_v not_o include_v in_o the_o promise_n of_o blessing_n and_o therefore_o shall_v not_o be_v baptize_v till_o it_o come_v to_o that_o age_n wherein_o it_o may_v make_v profession_n of_o its_o own_o faith_n unless_o the_o parent_n return_v again_o to_o god_n by_o true_a repentance_n be_v again_o receive_v into_o the_o bosom_n of_o the_o church_n or_o it_o be_v present_v by_o certain_a godly_a person_n who_o will_v bind_v themselves_o by_o promise_n to_o perform_v the_o duty_n of_o parent_n to_o the_o child_n unless_o perhaps_o because_o it_o be_v bear_v within_o the_o church_n it_o shall_v be_v baptize_v for_o the_o faith_n of_o the_o church_n thus_o they_o 10._o epist_n 10._o beza_n wright_v to_o they_o his_o judgement_n in_o this_o matter_n distribute_v those_o who_o be_v not_o to_o be_v account_v member_n of_o the_o church_n into_o four_o sort_n far_o different_a one_o from_o another_o to_o omit_v the_o former_a three_o as_o be_v not_o in_o question_n the_o four_o sort_n be_v of_o those_o who_o be_v elect_a of_o god_n and_o ingraft_v into_o christ_n yet_o fall_v through_o infirmity_n and_o give_v offence_n unto_o other_o be_v deliver_v unto_o satan_n that_o godly_a sorrow_n may_v work_v in_o they_o repentance_n of_o this_o last_o sort_n say_v he_o be_v the_o question_n concern_v who_o he_o first_o suppose_v diverse_a thing_n 1._o that_o they_o be_v such_o of_o who_o we_o may_v judge_v in_o charity_n that_o their_o estate_n be_v not_o desperate_a 2._o that_o though_o they_o be_v great_a sinner_n yet_o they_o be_v not_o apostate_n which_o forsake_v the_o church_n nor_o join_v themselves_o with_o adversary_n in_o persecute_v the_o truth_n 3._o that_o some_o difference_n be_v to_o be_v make_v between_o turk_n and_o excommunicate_a christian_n or_o papist_n 4._o it_o be_v hard_o to_o judge_v whether_o infant_n belong_v to_o the_o covenant_n in_o respect_n of_o their_o first_o parent_n profession_n or_o not_o second_o upon_o these_o supposition_n he_o conclude_v that_o the_o infant_n of_o excummunicate_n that_o remain_v in_o the_o church_n may_v not_o lawful_o be_v deny_v baptism_n but_o this_o he_o deliver_v with_o two_o proviso_n or_o caveat_n 1._o that_o a_o fit_a surety_n bind_v himself_o to_o the_o church_n for_o the_o holy_a education_n of_o the_o child_n 2._o that_o upon_o this_o occasion_n the_o minister_n do_v at_o that_o time_n serious_o exhort_v the_o father_n be_v present_a to_o repentance_n in_o the_o presence_n of_o the_o church_n before_o he_o baptise_v the_o child_n which_o he_o say_v be_v frequent_o do_v in_o their_o church_n viz_o in_o geneva_n thus_o he_o concern_v who_o answer_n i_o will_v propound_v two_o or_o three_o consideration_n first_o though_o beza_n be_v a_o very_a reverend_n &_o judicious_a divine_a yet_o in_o matter_n of_o faith_n