appoyntment of the rest one of them translated it into latine which was sent to me and now is by him out of latine translated into English Now that the Reader may see how much he is abused by this false translation of that wrighting I will publish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the very wrighting it selfe verbatim without alteration of a syllable as I received it from them and then compare this translation with it The Latine copy word for word Nos infra-scripti Pastores Ecclesiae Belgicae in civitate Amsteldamensi a viro Reverendo D. Pageto fideli pastore in Ecclesiâ Anglicanâ ejusdem civitatis nec non a venerandis fratribus Senioribus ac Diaconis ejusdem Ecclesiae Anglicanae specialiter requisiti ac fraternè rogati ut privatum nostrum judicium in causa vocationis quae ab universâ Ecclesiâ praedictâ videtur expeti Reverendi Clarissimi Doctissimique viri D. DAVENPORTII sincerè declarare atque exponere non recusemus idque in casu illo unico particulari spectante Baptismum eorum infantium qui in Ecclesiâ Anglicanâ baptizandi offeruntur Re totâ utrinque benè intellectâ ritè perpensâ et ad normam Verbi Dei ordinemque receptum in Ecclesijs Reformatis harum Provinciarum in quibus praedicta Ecclesia Anglicana sese membrum profiretur sub Classe Amsteldamensi probè examinatâ sincerè ac coram Deo in bonâ conscientiâ responsum damus atque declaramus Nihil magis nobis in votis esse quam ut praedictus D. Davenportius cujus insignis eruditio et singularis pietas ab omnibus fratribus Anglicanis apprime probatur laudaturque quemque hoc ipso nomine nec non ob alias virtutes ejus laudabiles etiam ipsi D. Pageto charissimum esse intelligimus ad ministerium Ecclesiae Anglicanae praedictae legitime promoveatur Bonum insuper ipsius Zelum ac studium de parentum ac susccptorum istorum liberorum praeuiô aliquô examine privatô in religione Christianâ instituendô quam maximè quidem nobis probari de re ipsâ tamen ita nos statuere ut praedictum illud examen quantum Ecclesiae Anglicanae feret aedificatio instituatur sed si fortè vel parentes susceptoresve istud accedere ac subire renuant vel ob temporis brevitatem aut alijs justis de causis fieri illud non queat vel etiam qui accesserint fratris vel fratrum examinantium judicio non videbuntur pro isto tempore satisfacere ipse infans cujus parentes susceptoresve constat esse Christianos quique Christianam religionem ad lectionem liturgiae Sacramenti Baptismi publicè coram Ecclesia profitentur a Baptismo propterea minime arceatur aut baptizarì recusetur sed ut ejusmodi ignorantes parentes susceptoresve post infantem baptizatum ulterÄus postea quoad fieri potest edoceantur quoniam scilicet infantes Christianorum suorum parentum susceptorumve vel inscitiam vel etiam ejusmodi inobedientiam ferre ac luere non debent Si quis tamen casus ullus alius obveniat quo minus infans oblatus baptizandus videatur ut tum totius presbyterij Anglicani vel etiam si necesse fuerit aut commodè fieri possit Classis Amsteldamensis judicium interveniat audiatur atque in eo acquiescatur Sic actum et transactum in aedibus D. Pageti Die 20. Ianuarij 1634. Ioannes le Mairius Iacobus Triglandius Henricus Geldorpius Rudolphus Petri. Iacobus Laurentius 2. The translation word for word We the underwritten Ministers of the Dutch Church in the citty of Amsterdam being specially and lovingly requested and desired of the Reverend Mr. PAGET a faithfull Pastour iâ— the English Church of the same city as also the the Reverend brethren the Elders and Deacons of the same English Church that we would not refuse sincerely to declare shew our private judgment about the calling of the Reverend most famous learned Mr. DAVENPORT which seemes to be desired of the whole Church aforesaid and that in this particular case alone concerning the Baptisme of those infants which are offered to be baptised in the English Church having well understood and duely weighed the whole matter on both sides and having throughly examined it according to the rule of Gods word and the order received in the Reformed Churches of these Provinces in which the aforesaid English Church doth professe it selfe a member under the Classis of Amsterdam we doe sincerely and in the presence of God with good conscience answer and declare that we desire nothing more then that the foresaid Mr. DAVENPORT whose notable learning and singular piety is much approoved and commended of all the English our brethren whom also in this regard and for his other commendable gifts we understand to be most deare unto Mr. PAGET may be lawfully promoted unto the Ministry of the English Church aforesaid we doe also greatly approove of his good Zeale and care of having some precedent private examination of the parents and sureties of these children in the Christian Religion yet touching the matter it selfe we doe so judge that this aforesaid examination be ordained so farr as may stand with the edification of the English Church but if haply the parents or sureties shall refuse to come and undergoe this examination or if for the shortnes of time or for other just causes it can not be done or if those that doe come shall not seeme for that time to satisfye the judgment of the Brethren one or more that doe examine them that yet the infant whose pareÌ„ts sureties are manifest to be ChristiaÌ„s which publickly before the Church doe professe Christian Religion at the reading of the leiturgie of the Sacrament of Baptisme shall not therefore be excluded or deprived thereof but that such ignorant pareÌ„ts sureties be further instructed after the infaÌ„t be baptised to wit because the infaÌ„ts of ChristiaÌ„s ought not to beare suffer the punishmeÌ„t of the ignorance or yet of such disobedience of their pareÌ„ts or sureties If yet any other case fall-out whereby it may seeme that the infant presented should not be baptised that then the judgment of the whole English Presbytery or also if need be and if conveniently it may be done that the judgment of the Classis of Amsterdam be obtayned and rested in So was it done and transacted in the house of Mr. PAGET the 28. day of Ianuary 1634. Here it must be noated that the Answerer pretendeth to publish this wrighting 1. So as it was done and transacted in his house the 28. day of Ianuary 1634. 2. So as it was written downe and read before him when they enquired of him whether he for his part did rest therein and he signifyed his consent with them These things being premised J demand by what pretence will the Answerer defend or excuse this his translation Let me without offence desire to know why he hath translated quorum parentes susceptoresve constat esse Christianos whose parents and suretyes are
places Acts 6. and 14 which if he hath diverse times taught them as he sayth the necessity of the free consent of the people unto the lawfull calling of a Minister out of those texts may be questionable Yet will it thence follow that therefore they may be deprived of men whom they have chosen or desire to choose without just and sufficient cause J suppose not Pag. 22. Ans 8. Reply His eighth and last answer is already examined and replyed upon and declared to be contradictory to himselfe in my reply to the third answer concerning their supposed silence if they could have brought me in according to this order thither I referr the Reader So much shall serve for the fourth Section The answer to the fifth Section examined IN this Section they prove the justnes of their former complaint by instances of men desired by the Church but by him rejected and opposed whereunto he answereth This complaint is confirmed and aggravated by Mr. D. c. Ans Reply If this complaint be just it makes good the title which these complainants give themselves the burthened members and well might I say that they are over burthened with the losse of so many men so much desired by the Church The Answerer himselfe sayth If the complaints be just then is the title just being framed according to the contents and speciall subject of the booke And a litle after If this Church be deprived of that liberty and power which Christ hath given it c. then is there cause to complaine of the miserable slavery and bondage of this Church These be his owne words What have the complainants or I sayd more then this That is a burthen which causeth wearines to him that beareth it Wearines ariseth from the disproportion betweene the faculty and the object hence is paine in the subject and thence are complaints which are more greivous as the burthen is more painfull And as corporall burthens are made intolerable to the body by addition of weight so are inward burthens to the mind by accession of aggravating considerations And in this case the concurrence of many respects maketh the burthen they complaine of exceeding greivous as their love to God to the Church to our Nation to their opposed brethen and to themselves First Their love to God stirreth up indignation in them when they see his servants injuryed and according to the height of their esteeme of the men is the deepenes of their sense of their injuryes Their injury they expresse to be his rejecting and opposing them their owne esteeme of the men they declare in stiling them the most worthy servants of God Such superlative and exuperant titles the persons to whom they are applyed dare not assume to themselves acknowledging themselves to be unproffitable servants and not worthy of that high honour to be called the servants of such a God Yet the persons who thus describe them shew a great esteeme of them To see such disgracefully used not by Ammonites as Davids servants were 2. Sam. 10.2.4.5 thorough causeles jealousyes but by Israelites and to be smitten by their fellow servants to the hinderance of the Lords worke and the furtherance of Sathans projects is very greivous Secondly Their love to the Church stirreth up Zeale in them to promove the good thereof by all possible indeavours both for their brethren and companions sake Psal 122. and because of the house of the Lord our God Whence their greife is increased if in deavours prove successes especially when they are denyed those men whom God seemeth to cast upon them and the Church unanimously desireth to the hinderance of the Churches peace and aedification and when that is done not against some one but against many nor once only but often Thirdly Their love to their Nation and Country stirreth up aemulation causeth much greife discontentment in them at any thing that may reflect reproach or disgrace upon the same as Contentions amongst them which by these actions are made unavoydable will doe especially in such a place as Amsterdam where so many nations living in Concord amongst themselves and with others are observers and admirers at the unnaturalnes of some of ours to their owne countrimen Fourthly Their love to their rejected and opposed brethren stirreth up compassion in them For who can looke upon a silly sheepe scratched in a hedge of thornes whither it fled for shelter without pitty And if Iobs complaint is able to affect any tender spirit when he sayth To him ehat is afflicted pitty should be shewed from his brethren Iob. 6.14.15 but my brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brooke which is then emptyest when the season is hottest and the wearied travayler is in greatest thirst much more will this stirr up Sympathy in a mercifull heart to see brethren not only like waters that fayle but as a violent streame that threatens to overflow and drowne those that should be refreshed to reject and oppose those that should be received cherished Fifthly Their love to them selves and to those that depend upon them stirreth up great desire in them to injoy those meanes which they haue found blessed to them to some of them for their effectuall calling to the obedience of Fayth to others of them for their buylding up and strengthning in their most holy Fayth Hence their greife is increased When they see themselves deprived of that which they haue found so good proffitable As for his girding Epithites in the next words against my person and theire expression I passe it by pittying his distemper Whereas he sayth that in the reproofe of these Complainants Mr. D. may in part read his owne it concerneth me the more strictly and particularly to examine the following passages that I may see how justly he reproveth me being prepared in some good measure I hope to beare patiently and receive thanckfully a just reproofe and to hold forth the truth myne owne innocency against unjust reproaches not respecting any mans person in discharge of my bounden duety We will therefore exactly observe his method and examine his pretended answer 1 To generall assertions 2 To the particular instances severally considered and apart 1. His pretended answer to that which is objected concerning these instances joyntly considered and in generall The thing objected or complained of is that the Church is by the Answerer deprived of her due liberty and power in the free choyse of a Pastor whilest men desired by the Church generally are by him rejected and opposed without sufficient cause This we prove say they by his rejecting and opposing the most worthy servants of God who came out of England for the same cause he did whom the Church with one consent desired as Mr. H. and Mr. D. of later times as also Mr. Pa Dr. A. Mr. F. Mr. P. c. Now let us see what he answereth Ans 1 generally concerning them all joyntly considered And thereunto he seemeth to
8 particulars to which I will answer severally and breifly To the first That they charge him with pressing others upon the Congregation In answer Ans whereunto he sayth I doe not clayme any more to my selfe then one voyce Nor doe they charge him to arrogate 2 voyces But who knoweth not that some one voyce may drowne many voyces Reply As appeareth in sundry passages in theyr Consistory Ans To the second That he abuseth his interest in the Magistrates and Classis he answereth Reply not by denying it but by calling for witnesses whereas what need witnesses when the fact it selfe proveth it As the examination of the former Sect evinceth Ans To the third That he sayth Reply they involve the Magistrates in the same guilt with him 1. Theyr owne wordes shew that theyr complaint is against him not the Magistrate and so the imputation of slander may be retorted upon himselfe This will be more fully cleared in the reply to the 6. answer where the difference betweene the Magistrates requiring of this and his pressing of it will appeare 2. Nor is it so rare a case as is pretended that mens interest in good Magistrates may be abused Was not the Emperour Constantius abused by the Arrians under theyr shew of gravity to side with them against the Orthodox though the greater number by farr in the Synod at Ariminum Ans To the fourth That they extend this complaint to the Classis also What offence is there in this he addeth as if they were generally so blind and corrupt as to suffer themselves to be abused by me Reply As though learned and godly men may not be abused by theyr good perswasion of anothers good intentions to take part with him against those that are godly without cause Sozom. 8.14 Socrat. 6.9 Did not Theophilus of Alexandria by his policy prevayle with Epiphanius a man of much integrity to take his part against Chrysostom whereby he prevayled to procure his banishment out of Constantinople to the great greife of the godly which also caused much calamity in the Church and civill State Ans To the fifth that he sayth theyr reproach serveth to the clearing of him and that those that are unpartiall and wise in heart may conceive hereby that he hath obtayned this interest in them not by abusing and corrupting them but by walking uprightly before them Reply The Complainants doe not say that he got his interest either in Magistrates or Ministers of the Classis by abusing corrupting them but that he abuseth the interest which he hath gotten in them to the injury of the Church 2. Nor is an interest in wise and godly men an infallible signe of upright walking Indeed interest in God is a signe of uprightnes as in Noah Abraham Iob Moses Samuell David c. Because the Lord searcheth the heart and knoweth our thoughts afarre off but it is not so in mens acceptance who judging by the outward appearance are often deceived and may be deluded by false pretences Was not David a wise King And yet Ziba abused his interest in him and by misinforming him caused him to doe an iniury to Mephiboseth The Church to whom Iohn the Divine wrote was not destitute of wise men and of men able to judge yet Diotrephes so farr abused his interest in them as the Apostle describeth 3. Iohn 9.10 saying I wrote unto the Church but Diotrephes that loveth to have the preheminence amongst them received us not wherefore if I come I will remember his deeds which he doeth prating against us with malicious words and not content therewith neither doeth he himselfe receive the brethren and forbiddeth them that would and casteth them out of the Church Boath those had an interest the one in the Magistrate the other in the Church which they abused But I produce these examples not to compare the Answerer with them but only to shew that an interest may be gotten with wise and good men without upright walking and therefore this is no necessary consequence To the sixth and seventh where he sheweth what order the Magistrates set downe about having one that can speake Dutch The story which here he relateth cleareth three points 1. That it is no slander when they say that none of our Nation that come immediatly from England though never so fit and able shall be admitted but they must be forced to take one that can speake Dutch Himselfe in relating the story confesseth this to be no slander but a trueth 2. That it is no slander when they complaine of him as guilty of this injury For besides what he hath done towards the procuring of this it is evident that he was so farr from pleading or stirring up the Elders to joyne with him in petition for the altering of this order as that he pleadeth for it though they say it is to the unspeakeakle injury and greife of the Church 3. That it is no slander that they complaine of the Answerer for this and not of the Magistrate seing he urgeth it more vehemently then they seeme to doe For they propound it as a matter only in some respects convenient that the English preacher speake Dutch but he presseth it as necessary The former appeareth three wayes 1. in that caution which they give If it were possible wherein I suppose they meane with the consent and approbation of the Church for otherwise if they would obtrude one upom them they need not put in that proviso 2. In the reasons which they give for that they re desire which doe imply only an expediency viz that he may debate matters with the Classis and treate with the Magistrate on the Churches behalfe as occasion shall require which a man may doe by learning the language after he is setled though he have no Dutch before 3. Jn they re indulgence to me which the Answerer acknowledgeth in sayng that they were content to dispense with my want of the Dutch language which sheweth that they accounted it but an expediency with which they would dispense in a case of necessity The latter viz P. 31.6 that the Answerer presseth it as a matter necessary appeareth in his owne words when he sayth that a minister called to this place which can not speake Dutch is in great measure no better then a Dumbe Minister in respect of one speciall worke of his calling which is to give advise c. In the Classis If to sit in the Dutch Classis c. Be one speciall worke of the English Ministers calling then indeed his ability to speake Dutch is a necessary requisite without which he is but a dumb minister But how will this be proved For 1. Paul in his Epistles to Timothy and Titus and in the rest of his Epistles speaketh nothing of this property or duety nor is it any where else in Scripture revealed to be necessary how then is it a speciall worke of his calling 2. The Magistrates doe not presse this sitting in
Chrisme and exorcisme although ancient are well abolished we would desire also that not only superfluous but also unfit questions were omitted also although Augustine in a certaine epistle would excuse it with a certaine interpretation but he calleth it infirmum commentum and that fitly And therefore the practise of those Churches in putting the question to the father of the child is more suitable to the rule because in the Covenant which God maketh with the parents the right of the infant to baptisme is founded and the power and care of educating the child in that fayth lyeth upon them To let passe this digression The custom of those times concerning men of yeares though it doe not every way touch the case of infants yet it sheweth the piety of those times and the judgment of the Ancients concerning the point in question de suscipientibus baptismum And howsoever in those times some superstitious rites were used in baptisme and some errours in Doctrine are to be found concerning the absolute necessity of baptisme to salvation yet not one of them so farr as my small reading hath inabled me to discover defended such a promiscuous administration of it as that wrighting of the five Ministers required as necessary or lawfull But if any man will wrest that conclusion of those Ancients in Cyprian to patronize this course whereof Cyprian speaketh thus Cyprian lib. 3. epist 10. haec fuit in concilio nostra sententia A baptismo atque a gratiâ Dei qui omnibus misericors benignus pius est neminem per nos debere prohiberi Let him know that those words if they be taken apart from the rest may seeme to favour the errour of universall grace as well as promiscuous baptising And indeed they countenance boath alike that is neither of them at all being considered in Cyprians intendment in that epistle which was to answer Fidus who held that infants of two or three dayes old ought not to be baptised arguing from Circumcision which was not administred till the eight day and from the bodily uncleanenes of infants at that age Cyprian in answer to his first Argument sheweth him that Circumcision was a shadow which is now vanished and in answer to the second used those words Acts 10.15 and concludeth thus Si etiam gravissimis delictoribus c. If remission of sinnes be given to the most greivous sinners when they afterwards beleive and repent and baptisme is not denyed to them how much more ought it not to be denyed such infants They that know how streight Cyprian was in nullifying the baptisme of those who had bene baptised by haereticks and such as were out of the Church cannot imagine that any helpe may be expected from him for warranting the administring of baptisme to their infants who are out of the Covenant Now if any thinck that there is some colour for the justifying of this course to be found in the capitulation of Charles King of Sycily with the Sarazens Speed Chron lib. 9. cap. 10. in the life of Edw. 1. at the seidge of Tunis in Africa the third Article whereof was that such as were willing might freely receive the Sacrament of Baptisme Let him understand that that agreement was only to establish the free excercise of Christian Religion not to warrant promiscuous baptising which was not at all in question at that time Thus the records of ancient times are against this disorderly custom and concerning the judgment of later times since the reformation if enough have not bene said already more shall be added in answeare to the seventh pretence Only that I may omitt nothing that I meet with in my reading which may seeme to carry any colour of favouring that custom though but in the letter I have produced those two instances of former times and will now add to them two or three of latter times In whom I purpose not to examine or censure their expressions but onely to shew that this evill custom is not maintained nor to be defended by what they have written First I will beginne with that question which excercised the Ministers that met in the Classis at Neocomum Beza epist 9. Whether the infants of excommunicates are to be baptised and in whose fayth seing their parents are not members of the Church The occasion whereof was this A certayne man of a very wicked life having 4 bastards and thrise deceived the Church with hypocriticall confession and promises was excommunicated together with his harlot The question was whether the fourth bastard begotten after their excommunication should be baptised The Ministers of that Classis declared their judgment which they sent in a letter to Beza thus we are of opinion that the infant being borne of such desperate parents is not included in the promise of blessing and therefore should not be baptised till it come to that age wherein it may make profession of its owne fayth unlesse the parents returning againe to God by true repentance be againe received into the bosome of the Church or it be presented by certaine godly persons who will bind themselves by promise to performe the duety of parents to the child Vnlesse perhaps because it is borne within the Church it should be baptised for the fayth of the Church Thus they Epist 10. Beza wrighting to them his judgment in this matter distributeth those who are not to be accounted members of the Church into fowre sorts farr different one from another To omit the former three as being not in question the fourth sort is of those who being elect of God and ingrafted into Christ yet falling through infirmity and giving offence unto others are delivered unto Sathan that godly sorrow may worke in them repentance Of this last sort sayth he is the question Concerning whom he first supposeth diverse things 1. That they are such of whom we may judge in charity that their estate is not desperate 2. That though they are great sinners yet they are not Apostates which forsake the Church nor joyne themselves with adversaryes in persecuting the truth 3. That some difference is to be made betweene Turkes and excommunicate Christians or Papists 4. It is hard to judge whether infants belong to the Covenant in respect of their first parents profession or not Secondly Vpon these suppositions he concludeth that the infants of excummunicates that remaine in the Church may not lawfully be denied baptisme But this he delivereth with two provisoes or caveats 1. That a fit surety bind himselfe to the Church for the holy education of the child 2. That upon this occasion the Minister doe at that time seriously exhort the father being present to repentance in the presence of the Church before he baptise the child Which he sayth was frequently done in their Churches viz in Geneva Thus he Concerning whose answer I will propound two or three considerations First Though Beza was a very Reverend judicious Divine yet in matters of faith