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christian_n church_n particular_a visible_a 3,187 5 9.2342 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A44093 A short examination of A Discourse concerning edification, by Dr. Hascard where it is inquired, how well the author of the said discourse hath proved that it is not lawful for a man to go from his parish church to meetings, that he might be better edifie [sic] / in a letter to a friend. Hody, Humphrey, 1659-1707. 1700 (1700) Wing H2345; ESTC R29483 16,353 30

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of_o the_o thing_n of_o god_n be_v the_o foundation_n of_o all_o faith_n love_n obedience_n or_o any_o sanctify_a affection_n that_o ordinance_n which_o most_o contribute_v to_o that_o must_v necessary_o must_v contribute_v to_o edification_n it_o be_v therefore_o the_o preach_a in_o most_o parish_n church_n which_o people_n look_v at_o as_o less_o tend_v to_o edification_n than_o what_o they_o hear_v elsewhere_o be_v less_o fit_v to_o their_o understanding_n and_o memory_n less_o awaken_n and_o operative_a upon_o their_o affection_n if_o any_o of_o they_o assign_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o public_a worship_n or_o the_o government_n of_o the_o church_n as_o give_v they_o cause_n to_o withdraw_v their_o presence_n from_o the_o former_a or_o concurrence_n with_o the_o latter_a it_o be_v ordinary_o of_o another_o nature_n not_o for_o further_a edification_n mere_o whereas_o sir_n our_o author_n say_v p._n 24._o that_o he_o do_v not_o understand_v what_o it_o be_v to_o be_v better_o save_v 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sir_n i_o have_v be_v young_a and_o now_o be_o old_a i_o never_o yet_o know_v a_o faithful_a and_o profitable_a preacher_n want_v a_o auditory_a i_o have_v indeed_o know_v many_o a_o learned_a and_o honest_a man_n want_v the_o company_n of_o his_o own_o parishioner_n but_o his_o church_n have_v be_v fill_v up_o with_o other_o i_o have_v also_o know_v many_o a_o learned_a and_o good_a man_n who_o want_v elocution_n or_o a_o happy_a method_n or_o be_v weak_a in_o preach_v part_n have_v want_v a_o auditory_a but_o let_v a_o man_n be_v conformi_v or_o nonconformist_n if_o he_o be_v a_o man_n sound_n in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n holy_a in_o his_o life_n and_o but_o of_o tolerable_a preach_a part_n and_o ability_n i_o never_o know_v he_o want_v a_o auditory_a i_o dare_v say_v no_o such_o person_n this_o day_n want_v none_o especial_o that_o be_v choose_v by_o the_o people_n either_o by_o a_o first_o election_n or_o a_o after_o submission_n there_o ever_o be_v and_o while_o this_o world_n stand_v there_o will_v ever_o be_v difference_n in_o the_o minister_n auditory_n till_o god_n make_v all_o minister_n equal_a in_o gift_n and_o ability_n neither_o do_v i_o much_o understand_v the_o discouragement_n of_o a_o small_a flock_n suppose_v the_o minister_n to_o have_v a_o livelihood_n the_o few_o soul_n a_o minister_n have_v under_o his_o charge_n the_o lesser_a his_o account_n will_v be_v at_o the_o day_n of_o judgement_n to_o who_o many_o soul_n be_v entrust_v of_o he_o will_v many_o be_v require_v but_o say_v our_o author_n what_o if_o our_o pastor_n be_v idle_a or_o remiss_a in_o his_o duty_n or_o corrupt_v in_o the_o faith_n and_o teach_v error_n instead_o of_o sound_a doctrine_n and_o we_o have_v no_o mean_n of_o edification_n what_o must_v we_o do_v must_v we_o take_v in_o poison_n instead_o of_o food_n or_o not_o be_v feed_v at_o all_o a_o very_a considerable_a question_n to_o which_o may_v have_v be_v add_v what_o if_o he_o be_v of_o a_o unholy_a life_n who_o build_v with_o one_o hand_n and_o destroy_v with_o the_o other_o to_o who_o people_n be_v ready_a to_o say_v when_o he_o reprove_v one_o physician_n heal_v thyself_o how_o can_v we_o think_v you_o believe_v as_o you_o speak_v when_o we_o see_v you_o do_v not_o live_v as_o you_o speak_v but_o to_o the_o question_n as_o form_v by_o himself_o sir_n the_o author_n reply_v to_o be_v sure_a you_o must_v not_o run_v into_o schismatical_a separation_n it_o be_v more_o tolerable_a to_o go_v to_o other_o congregation_n of_o our_o communion_n that_o may_v be_v irregular_a but_o it_o be_v not_o schismatical_a what_o do_v he_o mean_v by_o a_o schismatical_a separation_n shall_v the_o follow_a word_n expound_v he_o it_o be_v more_o tolerable_a to_o go_v to_o other_o church_n of_o our_o communion_n what_o be_v the_o meaning_n of_o that_o be_v not_o all_o congregation_n where_o the_o same_o doctrine_n be_v preach_v and_o the_o same_o worship_n i_o mean_v act_n of_o worship_n perform_v of_o the_o same_o communion_n do_v the_o difference_n in_o the_o minister_n habit_n and_o word_n in_o prayer_n make_v a_o different_a communion_n but_o be_v it_o lawful_a to_o go_v to_o other_o parish-church_n no_o say_v our_o author_n that_o be_v irregular_a and_o if_o it_o be_v not_o so_o sure_o man_n shall_v not_o be_v make_v such_o deep_a sufferer_n for_o that_o venial_a sin_n but_o he_o thank_v god_n we_o have_v a_o government_n which_o upon_o a_o just_a and_o modest_a complaint_n will_v quicken_v the_o lazy_a and_o negligent_a correct_v the_o heretical_a pastor_n and_o restore_v to_o you_o true_a edification_n i_o have_v not_o a_o word_n sir_n to_o say_v against_o this_o judge_v as_o you_o see_v what_o be_v true_a or_o false_a in_o these_o thing_n be_v matter_n of_o demonstration_n and_o therefore_o there_o need_v no_o word_n about_o it_o the_o author_n sir_n conclude_v his_o discourse_n with_o the_o recommendation_n of_o two_o thing_n to_o we_o 1._o that_o if_o we_o fancy_v any_o defect_n in_o our_o government_n we_o shall_v not_o hence_o conclude_v that_o we_o have_v not_o sufficient_a edification_n in_o the_o church_n to_o save_v our_o soul_n i_o know_v sir_n you_o can_v but_o observe_v 1._o how_o the_o author_n have_v forget_v his_o question_n which_o he_o p._n 1._o state_v concern_v better_a edification_n sir_n i_o do_v not_o think_v any_o sober_a dissenter_n will_v deny_v that_o man_n and_o woman_n may_v be_v save_v in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o know_v many_o of_o they_o do_v think_v that_o many_o will_v be_v save_v in_o the_o popish_a communion_n where_o they_o have_v no_o better_a light_n to_o make_v use_n of_o than_o they_o have_v in_o spain_n and_o italy_n and_o live_v up_o to_o their_o light_n do_v it_o therefore_o follow_v that_o they_o must_v not_o withdraw_v communion_n from_o rome_n i_o do_v not_o here_o compare_v the_o church_n of_o england_n with_o the_o romish_a synagogue_n i_o only_o bring_v this_o as_o a_o instance_n that_o a_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o mean_n of_o grace_n to_o bring_v man_n to_o heaven_n be_v not_o enough_o for_o pious_a soul_n to_o look_v after_o if_o it_o be_v there_o need_v no_o exhortation_n to_o grow_v in_o grace_n how_o come_v the_o question_n to_o be_v alter_v here_o p._n 22._o or_o this_o to_o be_v use_v as_o a_o argument_n not_o to_o seek_v for_o further_a edify_v that_o in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n there_o be_v sufficient_a edification_n mean_n of_o edification_n i_o presume_v he_o mean_v to_o save_v soul_n have_v christian_n no_o more_o to_o do_v do_v this_o author_n think_v than_o to_o look_v just_a to_o get_v to_o heaven_n sure_o their_o business_n be_v in_o the_o first_o place_n to_o glorify_v god_n and_o that_o can_v be_v no_o otherwise_o than_o by_o bring_v forth_o much_o fruit_n john_n 15._o 8._o herein_o say_v our_o saviour_n be_v my_o father_n glorify_v if_o you_o bear_v much_o fruit._n there_o be_v some_o who_o work_n shall_v be_v burn_v and_o they_o shall_v suffer_v loss_n but_o yet_o they_o themselves_o shall_v be_v save_v yet_o so_o as_o by_o fire_n 2_o cor._n 3._o 15._o every_o good_a christian_a will_v think_v himself_o concern_v so_o to_o live_v so_o to_o walk_v as_o he_o may_v most_o glorify_v god_n and_o be_v save_v yet_o not_o so_o as_o by_o fire_n he_o go_v on_o if_o upon_o a_o nice_a search_n and_o critical_a enquiry_n they_o think_v they_o have_v find_v some_o little_a flaw_n and_o defect_n improper_a phrase_n doubtful_a sentence_n and_o some_o small_a omission_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o our_o prayer_n and_o discipline_n yet_o let_v they_o not_o conclude_v that_o these_o can_v weigh_v in_o the_o balance_n against_o the_o black_a sin_n of_o schism_n and_o separation_n and_o all_o its_o sad_a consequent_n which_o be_v excuse_v by_o nothing_o else_o but_o term_n of_o communion_n plain_o sinful_a sir_n we_o must_v give_v they_o leave_v to_o load_v practice_n they_o do_v not_o like_o hard_a name_n when_o they_o be_v not_o able_a to_o convince_v the_o author_n of_o they_o of_o any_o sin_n i_o can_v wish_v that_o we_o can_v hear_v more_o of_o the_o black_a sin_n of_o drunkenness_n and_o whoredom_n and_o profane_a curse_v and_o swear_v but_o they_o can_v never_o name_v schism_n and_o separation_n but_o they_o must_v represent_v that_o as_o a_o black_a sin_n yet_o they_o will_v never_o tell_v we_o in_o any_o intelligible_a dialect_n what_o this_o same_o sin_n unto_o death_n be_v wherein_o it_o lie_v which_o of_o the_o ten_o commandment_n it_o oppose_v &_o c_o let_v they_o first_o tell_v we_o what_o the_o church_n be_v and_o open_v how_o we_o ever_o be_v unite_v to_o it_o and_o then_o show_v as_o plain_o how_o we_o be_v separate_v from_o it_o and_o we_o will_v cry_v peccavimus_fw-la if_o we_o can_v show_v they_o that_o the_o term_n upon_o which_o we_o must_v have_v have_v communion_n with_o it_o be_v such_o as_o we_o have_v just_a reason_n to_o believe_v sinful_a but_o sir_n when_o dissenter_n plead_v separation_n lawful_a for_o better_a edification_n it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o with_o respect_n to_o the_o worship_n and_o government_n as_o to_o the_o preach_v most_o ordinary_a in_o it_o not_o that_o there_o be_v not_o excellent_a preacher_n that_o do_v conform_v to_o the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o with_o all_o there_o be_v other_o many_o of_o which_o also_o may_v be_v very_o learned_a and_o good_a man_n but_o yet_o not_o have_v the_o gift_n of_o preach_v edification_n be_v much_o more_o concern_v in_o the_o doctrine_n and_o preach_v which_o man_n ordinary_o hear_v and_o attend_v than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o form_n of_o a_o church_n government_n and_o in_o the_o prayer_n use_v there_o though_o they_o also_o influence_n it_o in_o a_o much_o low_a degree_n do_v for_o a_o knowledge_n