of the Things of God being the Foundation of all Faith Love Obedience or any sanctified Affection that Ordinance which most contributes to that must necessarily most contribute to Edification It is therefore the Preaching in most Parish Churches which People look at as less tending to Edification than what they hear elsewhere being less fitted to their Understandings and Memories less awakening and Operative upon their Affections if any of them assign any thing in the Publick Worship or the Government of the Church as giving them Cause to withdraw their Presence from the former or Concurrence with the latter it is ordinarily of another Nature not for further Edification meerly Whereas Sir our Author saith p. 24. That he doth not understand what it is to be better saved or more saved We cannot help that the Apostle 1 Cor. 3. 15. Will teach him what he pretends to be so unintelligible His next Councel is p. 24. Let Edification be placed in the substantial Parts of Religion Sir We have our Religion yet to seek if Faith and Holiness be not the substantial Parts of it There is none that denieth that a right Faith and an honest Conversation is taught in our Church The Question is Whether they be ordinarily taught in all Parish Churches in the best Manner for Peoples Understanding either or Improvement in either They are certainly taught in the best manner with Reference to Edification when they are taught so plainly as all the Hearers may understand them and what is said is so proved and justified from Holy Writ that their Faith whose Object 't is not possible should be any Thing but a Divine Revelation can be founded not in the Wisdom of Mens fine Words or fallible Ratiocinations but in the Power of God and in the Wisdom of the Divine Will revealed in his Word If the Author Sir means that these Things are taught in our Thirty Nine Articles and in some particular Churches all that he can infer is That it is not lawful for us to divide our selves from the Doctrine of Faith in those Articles nor from such Places where we dwell where those Doctrines are so Preached if ever we were united to them If he means that in all Parish Churches Faith and Holiness are so pressed and preached he will find it denied by many and impossible by himself to be proved I see Sir nothing more in all the Book you sent me unless Words To draw up all in short Sir If all the Ministers and Christians on the Earth not apostatized to Idolatry be but one Church her Doctrine and Worship one and the same how is it possible that any should separate from it who adhereth to the Doctrine of it and lives in the performance of the same Acts of Worship that God is honoured by in every Part of it For it is certain that all such Persons as are Members of it neither do nor ever did Worship God in the same Place nor by the same Numerical Acts nor are under the same external Form of Church-Government and Order So as there is no pretence of Separation from the Catholick Visible Church I know no other Church but the particular Church of which an individual Person is a Member Let us consider that as signifying the whole Body of Christians wherein we live upon which Account we sometimes speak of a National Church how can a Person more separate from that than from the Catholick Church Sir who adhereth to the Doctrine of Faith owned in it and serveth God in any Part or corner of it by the same specifical Acts of Worship that whole Body of People serveth God by and in For neither do all the People in any Nation meet in the same Place to Worship God nor do the Ministers use the same Words in all their Prayers or Sermons nor do People use the same Habits and Postures in their Acts of Worship Do they mean the Particular Congregation of which Men are Members It is impossible a Man should separate from a Church in that Sense who never was a Member of it and as impossible that any should sinfully withdraw Communion from a Church in that lowest Notion that cannot without Sin have Communion with it in that or those Acts in which he withdraweth his Communion Neither is he to be called a Separatist that only withdraweth his Communion from it as to an human Tradition and is yet ready to have Communion with it in every Divine Institution It is most certain that Christ did so as to the Jews and also kept a Communion distinct from them though he did not wholly cast off Communion with them John Baptist kept a Communion with the Jewish Church yet sufficiently reflected on the Corruptions of it and neither restrained his Preaching nor Baptizing to the Synagogues or Temple This same thing so clamour'd on under the Notion of the black Sin of Schism and Separation if it signifieth any thing more than a withdrawing frome some Rites and Ceremonies of no Divine Institution no Necessity the Imposition of which and a Compliance with which some Persons judge sinful I must profefs my self not in the least Degree to understand it and if it signifies no more which of the Ten Commandments it is opposed to I cannot understand nor how to excuse him from it who did the like yet was Holy Undefiled Separate from Sinners But Sir as to what is said in this Discourse That it is sinful for a Man agreeing in all the Points of Faith in all the substantial Parts and Acts of Worship with all Christians in the World and more especially with all those in the Nation or in the Parish wherein he Lives not ordinarily to join in those Numerical Acts of Worship which the rest of the Parishioners or many of them join in because the Preaching and Praying or other Administrations of Holy Things in that Place is not such as he by Experience findeth most conducive to the Profit of his Soul either to convey to him the Knowledge of the Things of God or to affect his Heart with Love to and Zeal for God It is of all Things that which I least understand And Sir I hope it is the last Thing any shall beat into my Head If any hath a Design upon me Sir let him attempt if he can to prove that I have Soul or if any yet that Soul or Thing called so is but the Crâ—sis of my Body no distinct Being from it but shall with it Die and Putrifie and never with it rise more to hear of what I have done in the Flesh. Or let him attempt if he can to perswade me that I am not with this Soul to endeavour to my utmost to Glorifie God But I hope he shall never so long as I believe that there is a God or that I have an Immortal Being within me with which I ought to glorifie this God the Eternal Concern of which I am above all Things to mind and in Order to it
doth Preach as soundly intelligibly and profitably for Peoples remembrance in Order to their Knowledge Faith Love Holiness Zeal as Ministers do in Private Meetings Indeed Sir I am of his Mind for I am for a nearness of Members of the same Church in Cohabitation where it can be without a Prejudice to Edification but if Christians cannot ordinarily communicate in all Ordinances with their Parish Ministers and be equally instructed in the Truths of God or Hear what they understand or in such Methods as they can remember or so confirm'd in Scripture that they can search the Scriptures and find that Truth which they say or cannot hear the whole Counsel of God or be warmly pressed by Arguments to a truly holy Life in all Conversation as they can at another Meeting I think it is worth their while and no Sin against God to go where they may The saving and edifying Souls is of more Consequence than keeping the Limits of Parishes Now as to this Sir It is matter of Demonstration that every one must judge for himself for who preacheth most profitably for one must be determined of by him who knows the Capacity of the Hearer which I am sure none doth but himself we need not judge of the Learning and Abilities of any Person For he that preacheth most learnedly usually preacheth least to the Capacity of three Parts of his Hearers and to a Learned Auditory the plain Preacher preacheth most unprofitably as to his Improvement in Knowledge I remember Sir a Story out of Chrysostome who tells us that he heard a Christian and an Heathen disputing ridiculously The Matter in debate was whether Paul or Plato was the best Schollar The Christian maintain'd Paul was the Heathen maintained Plato was Thus saith Chrysostom The Christian stood to prove what was the Pagans Part and the Pagan undertook to prove the Christians Part For the Christian might have said if Plato were the best Schollar it is no wonder he had more Disciples then Paul and the Heathen might have said if Paul were so much the best Schollar it is no wonder he made the Gospel abound so far The Excellency of a Preacher or his fitness to edifie Souls is not to be determined from his Learning but from his Pains and Diligence and Eye to the End of his Work as to those People or the generality of them to whom he preacheth and his wise accommodating Means fit for his End This requireth the Knowledge of the Circumstances of the generality of his Auditory and none but the particular Person can judge of him who preacheth most to his particular Edification plain Scriptural practical Preaching is undoubtedly for most general Edification because Nine Parts of Ten of the most Auditories are unlearned and understand not rational Deductions unless made easie nor Scholastical Niceties or Criticisms and for those few that can they are more edified by them in their Head than in their Heart but he that preacheth solidly plainly scripturally and practically may edifie the best Hearers in their Faith Love and Obedience and Zeal which is the best Edification for Men may have a great deal of Notion and yet perish eternally Sir That there is generally in our Parish-Churches more solid plain scriptural and practical Preaching fitted for the Capacity and Remembrance of the generality of Men and Women that come to hear than there is in the Nonconformists Meetings will not easily be allowed by any that commonly heareth both Let Sir Men be never so learned if in popular Discourses where they are speaking to Five hundred Men will speak to Five that is to the Understanding of a very few I do not believe but the rest may go away and hear such as they understand better and remember what they say But there need no more words in this Case it is most apparent that he must know another very well that can know what Discourse will edifie him best and that no Body can possibly understand or judge that but himself so as this Argument is at its length Sir he cometh p. 13. to what he calls his Second Argument to prove this Proposition p. 2. That it is unlawsul for any Men to forsake the Communion of the Church of England and go to the separate Meetings because he can better edifie there Because that those who usually make this pretence for Separation do commonly mistake better Edification This is Sir a way of Reasoning which I cannot understand I cannot imagine how any Person should ever be able to prove that a Man may not go to another Church that he may better edifie Because some or many mistake the nature of Edification doth it follow Sir that because some mistake it therefore none knoweth it or none can know it or none that truly know the Nature of it may pursue it But really Sir the Author of that Discourse seemeth to know it so well that I think we may all take his own Notion of it and agree with him p. 2. That it is an improvement of our spiritual Condition in its full latitude Let us build a little Sir upon so good a Foundation The Edification of a Soul Sir is as a noble so a very large Building and comprehends an increase in Faith Love Obedience to the Will of God with an increase in holy Affections c. The Foundation of this large Building must be Knowledge a knowledge of the Will of God revealed in Scripture both as to things to be believed and to be done Hence the wise Man Prov. 19. 2. tells us That the Soul should be without knowledge is not good The Apostle saith Rom. 20. 14. How shall they call upon him in whom they have not believed And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard And Col. 3. 10. he tells us The new Man is renewed in knowledge And 1 Col. 9. the Apostle prayeth That Men may be filled with the knowledge of the Will of God in all Wisdom and spiritual Understanding And this to that end that they may walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God And we are commanded in 2 Pet. 3. 18. to grow in Grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. How Sir Men should mistake an increase in knowledge which is the first Stone in this Spiritual Building for an healing of Fancy and a stirring of Humours I leave to you Sir to judge It is as bad a Mistake as that of an Apple for an Oyster In his thirteenth Page he seemeth to think that the Duty of keeping an ordinary Communion with the Parish-Minister for that or nothing he must mean by his Phrase of our Church-Communion is a plainer and greater Duty than attending our Edification because he thinks that is disputable doubtful c. Of this Sir I hope he shall never perswade me nor you until he hath perswaded us that it is better for
Sir I have been young and now am old I never yet knew a faithful and profitable Preacher want an Auditory I have indeed known many a learned and honest Man want the Company of his own Parishioners but his Church hath been filled up with others I have also known many a learned and good Man who wanting Elocution or an happy Method or being weak in preaching Parts hath wanted an Auditory but let a Man be Conformist or Nonconformist if he were a Man sound in Matters of Doctrine holy in his Life and but of tolerable Preaching Parts and Abilities I never knew him want an Auditory I dare say no such Person this Day wants none especially that is chosen by the People either by a first Election or an after Submission There ever was and while this World stands there will ever be difference in the Ministers Auditories 'till God makes all Ministers equal in Gifts and Abilities Neither do I much understand the Discouragement of a small Flock supposing the Minister to have a Livelihood the fewer Souls a Minister hath under his Charge the lesser his Account will be at the Day of Judgment To whom many Souls are entrusted of him will many be required But saith our Author what if our Pastor be idle or remiss in his Duty or corrupt in the Faith and teacheth Error instead of sound Doctrine and we have no means of Edification What must we do Must we take in Poison instead of Food or not be fed at all A very considerable Question to which might have been added What if he be of an unholy Life who builds with one Hand and destroyeth with the other To whom People are ready to say when he reproveth one Physitian heal thy self How can we think you believe as you speak when we see you do not live as you speak But to the Questions as formed by himself Sir the Author replies To be sure you must not run into Schismatical Separation It is more tolerable to go to other Congregations of our Communion that may be irregular but it is not schismatical What doth he mean by a schismatical Separation Shall the following Words expound him It is more tolerable to go to other Churches of our Communion What is the meaning of that Are not all Congregations where the same Doctrine is preached and the same Worship I mean Acts of Worship performed of the same Communion Doth the Difference in the Ministers Habits and Words in Prayer make a different Communion But is it lawful to go to other Parish-Churches No saith our Author that is irregular and if it were not so surely Men should not be made such deep Sufferers for that venial Sin But he thanks God We have a Government which upon a just and modest Complaint will quicken the Lazy and Negligent correct the heretical Pastor and restore to you true Edification I have not a Word Sir to say against this Judge as you see what is true or false in these Things is Matter of Demonstration and therefore there need no Words about it The Author Sir concludes his Discourse with the Recommendation of two things to us 1. That if we fancy any Defects in our Government we should not hence conclude that we have not sufficient Edification in the Church to save our Souls I know Sir you cannot but observe 1. How the Author hath forgot his Question which he p. 1. stated concerning better Edification Sir I do not think any sober Dissenter will deny that Men and Women may be saved in the Church of England I know many of them do think that many will be saved in the Popish Communion where they have no better Light to make use of than they have in Spain and Italy and live up to their Light doth it therefore follow that they must not withdraw Communion from Rome I do not here compare the Church of England with the Romish Synagogue I only bring this as an Instance that a Sufficiency of the Means of Grace to bring Men to Heaven is not enough for pious Souls to look after if it were there needed no Exhortations to grow in Grace How comes the Question to be altered here p. 22. Or this to be used as an Argument not to seek for further Edifying that in the Church of England there is sufficient Edification Means of Edification I presume he means to save Souls have Christians no more to do doth this Author think than to look just to get to Heaven Surely their Business is in the first place to glorifie God and that can be no otherwise than by bringing forth much Fruit John 15. 8. Herein saith our Saviour is my Father glorified if you bear much Fruit. There are some whose Work shall be burnt and they shall suffer loss but yet they themselves shall be saved yet so as by Fire 2 Cor. 3. 15. Every good Christian will think himself concerned so to live so to walk as he may most glorifie God and be saved yet not so as by Fire He goeth on If upon a nice search and critical enquiry they think they have found some little Flaws and Defects improper Phrases doubtful Sentences and some small Omissions in the Matter of our Prayers and Discipline yet let them not conclude that these can weigh in the Ballance against the black Sin of Schism and Separation and all its sad Consequents which is excused by nothing else but Terms of Communion plainly sinful Sir We must give them leave to load Practices they do not like hard Names when they are not able to convince the Authors of them of any Sin I could wish that we could hear more of the black Sins of Drunkenness and Whoredom and prophane Cursing and Swearing but they can never Name Schism and Separations but they must represent that as a black Sin yet they will never tell us in any intelligible Dialect what this same Sin unto Death is Wherein it lies Which of the Ten Commandments it opposeth c Let them first tell us What the Church is and open how we ever were united to it and then shew as plainly how we are separated from it and we will cry Peccavimus if we cannot shew them that the Terms upon which we must have had Communion with it were such as we had just Reason to believe sinful But Sir when Dissenters plead Separation lawful for better Edification it is not so much with respect to the Worship and Government as to the Preaching most ordinary in it not that there are not excellent Preachers that do Conform to the Church of England but with all there are others many of which also may be very Learned and good Men but yet not have the Gift of Preaching Edification is much more concerned in the Doctrine and Preaching which Men ordinarily hear and attend than it is in the Form of a Churches Government and in the Prayers used there though they also influence it in a much lower Degree doth for a Knowledge