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A01540 A iust defence of certaine passages in a former treatise concerning the nature and vse of lots, against such exceptions and oppositions as have beene made thereunto to Mr. I.B. Wherein the insufficiencie of his answers giuen to the arguments brought in defence of a lusorious lot is manifested; the imbecillitie of his arguments produced against the same further discouered; and the point it selfe in controuersie more fully cleared; by Thomas Gataker B. of D. and author of the former treatise. Gataker, Thomas, 1574-1654.; Balmford, James, b. 1556. Modest reply to certaine answeres, which Mr. Gataker B.D. in his treatise of the nature, & use of lotts, giveth to arguments in a dialogue concerning the unlawfulnes of games consisting in chance. 1623 (1623) STC 11666; ESTC S102920 190,437 294

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o Notum illud Pythagoreorum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ipse dixit in quo per omnia acquiescebant his bare word be as authenticall as the best proofe that is Such p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Samijs Lacones Plut. apoph●…b great words might haue beene well spared vnlesse his proofes had beene more pregnant least it be said of him as he said sometime of the Athenians that they were like old men that q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Democrates apud Stob. c. 22. blew hard but did little I. B. For the better vnderstanding of the second part of the reason hasting to an end I onely desire an Answer to this Question Is any vse of a Lot lawfull where the circumstances of Time Place and Persons be not determined T. G. M r. B. weary it seemeth of arguing commeth now to asking The end of his Question he saith is for the better vnderstanding of the second part of my Reason Why admit my reason or some part of it were not worth a button how doth M r. B. make good the Proposition which all this while he should haue proued But to the Question I answer as the Spartans sometime in a word * Ad prolixam Philippi Maced qua quaedam ab eis deposcebat epistolam unica vocula an vocali respōdebant 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vel ut Scal. ad Euseb. ex Athen. itemque ad Auson ex Athen. Gell. Hinc Auson epist. 25. Vna suit quondam qua respondere Lacones Litera irato Regi placuere negantes Idem Dionysio rescripsit Philoxenus unde Prouerbium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Suidas No. And what then Are there no more circumstances to be obserued but these onely Or are there not generall Rules according to which I require the vse of such things to be regulated I. B. If M r. G. except an extraordinarie Vse I may as well except the lusorious vse of Lots T. G. Can any man liuing tell what this meaneth I answer as before and if M r. B. can picke ought our of mine Answer for his aduantage he may I. B. I answer to the exemplification of this reason granting that an Argument holdeth from the negatiue for the substance of Gods worship I yet make this Quaere whether onely because God hath determined it T. G. Whether M r. B. grant this part of mine Answer or no yea whether it be sound or vnsound is nothing materiall since that the strength of mine Answer for the disproofe of the Proposition resteth wholly vpon the other part to wit that from matter of fact not expressed in Scripture it is no good arguing to matter of right or wrong and that a thing may be lawfull without either precept or practise recorded in the word expresse or implicite and much lesse is it materiall what become of M r. B s. quaeres which I needed not therefore stand to answer nor doth ought therefore that followeth here at all touch our cause But let vs heare M r. B s. quaere He maketh it a Question Whether the Argument therefore onely holdeth from the negatiue for the substance of Gods worship because God hath determined it I answer It is enough for my purpose if it doe hold therefore Which M r. B. it seemeth doth not deny And in many cases it holdeth onely therefore For why we should vse water and not s Nam vino lavare gentibus quibusdam hodieque nō est insolens Quo forsan allusit Iacobus Gen. 49. 11. wine in Baptisme why bread rather than t As in the Passeouer Exod. 12. 9. rosted flesh in the Lords Supper and why bread onely and not cheese too as u Haeretici quidam Artotyritae hinc dicti Epiphan haeres 49. Aug. haeres 28. ex Isidor Grat. decr caus 24. quaest 3. some haue vsed no reason can be rendred but x Quia tibi sic placitum uti Christus ad Patrem Matth 11. 26. Quanquam nolim ex hoc loco argumentum contexere prout supra D. B. voluit ad Arg. 6. because God so pleased to determine the elements in either It is true indeed that some sorts of Worship are in themselues y Deut. 12. 31. Talia Ethnicorum Sacra Taurica Cabirica sed Floralia Lupercalia Saturnalia Bacchanalia Aphrodisia Priapeia c. impious and are therefore also disallowed But let vs heare the reason why this Quaere is made I. B. For in those places of Ieremie God doth blame his people onely for vsing a worship which he commanded not without any intimation that he prescribed his owne worship T. G. Is there not an euident intimation that God had prescribed his owne worship vnlesse it be presupposed that he would not at all be worshipped when for this very cause he reiecteth some kinde of worship because he had not prescribed the same I. B. To the same purpose writeth Paul to the Colossians against the Traditions of men and will-will-worship not for M r. G s. cause but because in so worshipping they held not the Head vers 19. which is Christ King of his Church teaching and gouerning the same in all things T. G. The Apostle expresly condemneth one sort of the superstitious he there speaketh of because they were meere a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Col. 2. 22 23. will-worships and humane inuentions wherein let M r. B. take heed lest he be found faulty in denying vnto Christians the lawfull vse of Gods creatures vpon conceits meerely superstitious as those false teachers then did that is as Piscator well b Quum Deus istarum autor non sit Piscat because God was not the Author of them Which is in effect for the very same cause that I auerre As for that of c Col. 2. 19. not holding the Head it is not vrged by the Apostle for any such purpose as M r. B. here affirmeth confounding and blending together those things that are to be distinguished but against those that would haue brought in the d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Coloss. 2. 18. Adoration of Angels who in so doing the Apostle saith e Quod Christum isti dignitate sua spolient ut qui un toti suo corporitum fovendo tum augendo sufficiat Piscat relinquished Christ the Head who is of himselfe all-sufficient to foster and propagate his Church without such sending of his seruants to seeke assistance from any other I. B. But in Deut. M r. G s. cause is implied It is true that there God forbiddeth his people to inquire how other Nations serued their Gods and sendeth them to his word to obserue the same without putting anything to or taking ought from the same Surely I should not gather from hence M r. G s. cause Because I feare it would incourage Papists in their superstitious rites and ceremonies called Circumstances though indeed parts of the substance of outward worship For they are ready to take hold thereof and say God
are grounded on any principles of reason and nature or were learned by any course of naturall and ordinarie obseruation but were brought in either directly by Satan or by some lims and instruments of Satan c. persons addicted wholly to vanitie and to vngodly curiositie And hereupon asketh Why if this reason be good against one kinde of Lotterie it should not be of like validitie against all I make no doubt but the consequence is firme and good It remaineth for him to proue all kinde of Lotterie to be such and he shall haue my suffrage for the condemning of all Meane while I desire a little more faire dealing at M r. B s. hands in allegation of mine assertions Well it may be seene shortly how M r. G s. diligence I. B. vnderstanding and memorie haue serued him in defending lusorious Lots It is very likely that they haue all oft times T. G. failed mee u 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Greg. Naz. de pac 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Idem de plag grand There is no man but they may my selfe much more the meanest of so many In the meane while sufficiencie of his answering I. B. is but vpon the Triall and not yet adiudged And of M r. Bs. reply the like T. G. All these passages well reuiewed by M r. G. I I. B. should thinke he cannot wonder that a man of 64 yeeres compleat and therefore his wits may faile doth wonder that so godly wise and learned a man the faculties of whose minde are at the best did not say to himselfe before he preached much more before he penned this lusorious Doctrine a Iudg. 6. 31 3●… Let Baal plead for himselfe and These gamesters shall without any incouragement from me b Esai 5. 18. draw on their iniquitie with their cords of vanitie and the rather because he acknowledgeth that accompt is to be giuen vnto God of gaming p. 261. If of the act much more of iustifying it From which accompt good Lord deliuer me For I feare that in iustifying lusorious Lots I should put false spectacles on a gamesters nose whereby the bridge seemeth broader than it is and so he falleth in without feare to use M r. G s. similitude p. 264. Surely either M r. G. is a wonderfull strange T. G. man or else M r. B. is very prone to wonder at things that are not very wonderfull For here is nothing with him but wondering and wonder vpon wonder He telleth his Reader againe and againe that he doth wonder he demandeth of him whether he may not wonder he would not haue me nay he thinketh I cannot wonder that he doth thus wonder Some Heathen wisemen haue held it c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Zeno apud Laert. Nil admirari prope res est una Numici Solaque quae possit facere servare beatum Horat. epist. 6. a point of the highest wisdome for a man to wonder at nothing I am not of their mindes Yet as another saith that d V●…rumque vitium est omnibus nulli credere sed alterum honestius alterum tutius Sen. epist. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hesiod it is as well reproueable in a man for him e Prov. 14. 15. inde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fatuus dicitur Sirac 19. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Epicharm to trust euery one as f Butleri Contabr epigraphe Be faithfull to all but trust no man liuing not to trust any so I hold it an vnwise part in any man as well g Vt pavere sic Mirari cuncta infantile insanum nihil to wonder at euery thing as to wonder at nothing as well to wonder where iust cause of such wonderment is not as not to wonder where it is Now all that hath by M r. B. beene said being well considered I leaue it to others to iudge what iust cause of so much wonderment he hath produced hitherto out of my writings 2. But let vs heare what further matter M r. B. hath here found for this his wondring humor to worke vpon for the former passages haue already beene examined That a man of 64. yeeres complete should see more than one some fourteene or fifteene yeeres younger than himselfe as M r. B. perswadeth himselfe that hee doth it is no wonder h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plut. paedag 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Eurip. Phoeniss 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Idem Beller●…ph non omnia grandi●…r aetas Quae fugiamus habet seris venit usus ab annis Ovid. met l. 6. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sophocl Oedip. Knowledge gathered by experience and continuance of studie is wont to grow together with yeeres in i Senectus eorū qui adolescentiam suam honestis artibus instruxerunt aetate fit doctior usu tritior processis temporis sapientior Hieron ad Nepot Talis Solen qui se quotidiè aliquid addiscentem senem fieri gloriabatur Cic. senect 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Solon those that be industrious as I beleeue M r. B. to be It is not that therefore I presume that M r. B. so much wondreth at But that which he wondreth at and I must not wonder that hee doth wonder at is this that so godly wise and learned a man c. I would intreat M r. B. k Genus inimicorū pessimum est laudantium Tacit. Agric Callidum nocendi artificium accusatoriam dir●…atē laudum titulis peragere Mamert panegyr no more thus to commend me I like not his manner of commendation I obserue it to be euer but a foile to what here followeth to be but a shooing horne still the more smoothly to draw on some disgracefull aspersion or other and to make my supposed failing therein the fouler as before so here that such an one forsooth should plead for Baal and giue incouragement to gamesters for that is apparantly implied Which whether I be guilty of I appeale to my Booke and to all that will vouchsafe the reading of it Must he needs be held to plead for Baal that should maintaine that the trees growing in Baals groue which l Iudg. 6. 28. Gedeon cut downe were naturall trees indeed as others are and not enchanted m Quales Heliadas fabulantur in arbores versas exclamasse nostrum laceratur in arbore corpus Ovid. met l. 2. Fairies in the likenesse of trees against some fantastique that were possest with some such senslesse conceit or that should haue defended the lawfulnesse of vsing the wood of them either for sewell or fence contrary to the n In quo genere adeò superstitiosi Iudaeuli ut si arbor prope Idolum consita sit nefas ducant sub umbra ejus considere vel etiam per umbram ejus transire nisi alia nulla via patu●…rit in quo casu cursu incitatissimo transire praecipiunt Praecept Mosaic affirm 45. Commodum nullum ab idolis aut eorum supellectili percipiendum Ibid.