their Faith and forbearing all outward violence he sought by all policy to hinder their increase wherein he prevailed much more for that some through covetousness others through ambition suffered themselves to be perswaded to that whereunto they could not be forced by any violence or threats I will not compare here this new kind of Doctrine which is now in question with the Pagan Religion for it is not my intention to interpose my censure but I will onely conclude that in that which consisteth in the perswasion of the heart corporal violence prevaileth no more then the vapour of wind that blows to hinder the heat of the fire And daily experience hath taught us The means then to divert them from their opinions is to perswade them that their faith and belief is not conformable to the word of God To effect the which there is no other means then to give them free audience to the end that they may propound their reasons and motives with all liberty and that they be confuted of error and herefie by the Word of God If they remain obstinate yet when this disputation and instruction shall be performed in the eye of the World those that are weak shall by this means be perswaded not to follow their errors for as for the obstinate even as instruction would avail them little or nothing so much less would fire or death turn them from their resolved opinions But on the other side those which behold others to die with such constancy take a delight to seek the opinions and they which by this means came to fall in the like inconveniences should be wholy preserved when they should hear them vanquished by the word of God and by reasons which they cannot contradict If then Prelats and Bishops trust in the bounty of their cause as with all reason they ought There is not in the world a better means to attain unto the Kings intention and to prevent the multiplying of Sects then to confer together publickly that all the world may know that the others do falsly bragg that they have the word of God on their side for it is most certain that when truth is compared with falshood she must of necessity shew her beauty and obtaine the Victory discovering to the eye of all men what is false and counterfeit and by this means a great good shall rise for that they which now know not what to follow in so great a diversity of opinions may settle a firm judgment of the Truth after that they have heard the grounds of either side so as in conference all confusion and disorder all noise and rayling be laid aside As wee have seene in the disputations and conferences which Saint Paul hath made aswell with the Jews as against the Pagans then presently those which sought the truth knew that he had reason and that the other were in errour so in the Councels of Nicene the Arrians were admitted to propound their reasons and grounds with all liberty and being convicted by the word of God of error and heresie were forced for a time to desist from their enterprise but presently after when they presecuted them they had many disciples some moved by pittie some by their false perswasions the which was the cause of great mischiefs and inconveniences in the Church Yea in our time we have seene in all places where the Anabaptists have beene persecuted they have increased infinitely And contrariwise where they have been heard in publique conference and disputation and convicted of errour and heresie by the word of God they have had no more tredit in the world And therefore Mabomet hath so carefully forbidden that they should never dispute upon the points of Religion brought in by him knowing well that the truth being once confronted against his lyes his doctrine of necessity must goe to smoake It s a true marke and a badge of truth that it desires to be known made manifest and debated being like unto the Palm tree the more it is deprest and charged the higher and steighter it growes For this reason the ancients did appoint to hold free and generall Councels every yeare although by the corruption of time many abuses have beene brought in by the ambition and covetousnesse of those that should give their Voyces So it is that the Hereticks and Sectaries feare nothing in the World more then to be made manifest be it by a free and general councel or in any other place where as matters may be freely debated on either side the which we see at this day apparently in the Anabaptists who fly all disputations more then death If then those which desire to root out this new Religion which multiplies so fast are assured of the bounty and truth of their cause and of the falshood of their Adversaries There is no fitter means then to come publickly to field and to give their adversaries free audience and leave to dispute without doubt if they maintaine herefies there shall neede neither fire nor gibbets to hinder the course of their doctrine for that the more manifest it is the more it will decay It will be to no purpose to say that they have been often heard and confuted for admit it were so yet a great multitude of people which are inclined thereunto deserve so much paine as to bee instructed in hearing and examining their reasons but when you have said all they were never heard with patience for when as Luther began to preach this doctrine in Germany it was presently condemned by the Pope and persecuted by all the Kings and Princes of Christendome he was once called to be heard but it was to see if hee would recant or maintaine his writings and his doctrine And he on the other side protested nothing more then the desire hee had to bee better taught and instructed by the holy Scripture The like proceeding was held against Iohannes Husse at the councel of Constance who was never heard in his own defence but assoon as he was arrived there they laid before him certain Articles drawn by some adversary of his out of his books asking him if he would maintain those Articles which were reproved and condemned by the holy Church and thereupon they gave sentence that he was an heretick and damned the which the world sees to be against all right and reason To say that those were condemned by other Councels before is nothing to the purpose for if it be so as they say it will be the more easie to overthrow them now for that the ancients have never condemned any doctrine but that which they held contrary to the word of God the which they have alledged to that effect I say to confute errours and heresies So as now the way shall be traced and they shall need only to quote the same scriptures to confute these for that the word of God remaineth eternally and the scripture hath now as much force and vertue to confute heresies as ever But to
GOOD COVNSEL IN BAD TIMES Or a good motion among many bad ones Being a discovery of an old way to root out Sects and heresies and an earnest desire for a complyance with all men to settle Peace with Justice As also a Relation of a Remarkable piece of Justice done by Duke WILLIAM called the Good Likewise an Epistle to the Reader By John Musgrave a Lover of Peace and Justice Published according to Order 2 SAM 8.15 Thus David reigned over all Israel and executed judgement and justice unto all his people PROV 21.3 To do justice and judgement is more acceptable to the Lord then sacrifice LONDON Printed for Thomas Watson and are to be sold at his shop in Duck-Lane MDCXLVII To the Reader IN the beginning of these our late troubles and Civil warres I was imprisoned by the Justices of the Peace and Commissioners of Array in Cumberland maintaining the Parliamentary Protestations and opposing the Arbitrary and Tyrannicall Government of our corrupt Magistracy and Ministery there after a long and chargeable Imprisonment I was removed by an Habeas Corpus to London and freed by Parliament Authority but upon my returne back into my Countrey I was constrained to undergo a voluntary exile in Scotland most pâ—â—â— of two years even till the reducement of that Country to obedience of Parliament hoping to have found such placed in Authorities there as had beene of approved Integrity and men hating Covetousnesse I returned to my Country but contrary to my expectations finding the Militia and Authorities there setled in the hands of such as were the sworne and professed enemies of the Kingdome I and some other exiles for the Parliaments cause by certain Propositions represented our grievances and made knowne to the Parliament Commissioners how the Militia and Authorities with us were intrusted to declared Traitors but the Parliament Commissioners would not redresse our grievances Afterwards Mr Osmotherley and I were sent to London to petition the Parliament in the behalf of the well affected of Cumberland and Westmerland after we had attended the Parliament some four moneths upon a false report of the Chair-man of the Committee I was committed to the prison of the Fleet by an Order of the house of Commons where I have beene prisoner yet in all that time could I never have accesse unto Justice During my restraint here reading the History of the Netherlands I found the rise and growth of the warres and troubles of those Provinces was not so much from the dissenting Opinions in matters of Religion as from pride and covetousnesse of the King of Spaines evil Counsellours and worser Ministers of Justice who under a counterfeit zeale and pretext of setling Church Government abusing this their Princes favour and their authority went about to lay a foundation of their own greatnesse in the ruines of the people and to enrich themselves by impoverishing and subjecting those Provinces to their lawlesse wills and Tyranny and the more easie to bring that people under their Iron yoke they set up the Spanish Inquisition where-from to free themselves they were constrained to take up Arms in defence of themselves and for preservation of their almost overthrown Liberties but finding no reconciliation could be had relying upon the equity and justice of their cause by publique Edict did declare the King of Spain to bee fallen from the Seignory and authority he had in and over those Provinces a good crution for Princes by oppression not to lose the affection of their people In France a fire was kindled which the blood of millions could not quench till free exercise of Religion was granted The bloudy wars and fearful massacres and cruel murthers in Germany upon the denying the Protestants there their Liberty were so great and many as the same indangered the utter devastation of that great Empire If wee take a view of the hot persecutions of the Popish Prelates here in England in Queene Maries dayes wee shall finde the same the very cause and grounds of those severe Lawes enacted by her sister against Papists and their Priests our late Bishops and their Clergy were so puffed up with pride as they could not be contented with their great Lordships and large dominions without they might Lord it over the Consciences of others which proved to bee their ruine and now they be cast out with shame as an abhominable branch Our New Presbyters who so cryed downe their Fathers the Bishops and proclaimed against them for their cruelties and in forcing men to a blinde obedience Are they more moderate Nay These our pretended Reformers since they have beene backed by Authority and set up their great Idol Kingdomes-deviding breaking Covenant by this new forgery they endeavour and threaten to enslave all men to their lawlesse lusts Doe they not cry out No Covenant No Parliament as the Prelates did No Bishop No King every Parish Priest more Lording it then any Prelate ever did surely their destruction will be sudden if they longer persist in these Godlesse courses with our Priests our new State Politicks comply by this new devised Covenant they to hold up their faction have cast off or kept out of all place and office such as bee conscientious or honest but left their Fathers the Prelates in case ever should recover their former power and credit should condemne them in their convocation house for Hereticks these pretenders and great Reformers as they retain their old Names and Offices of Parsons and Vicars so are they zealous observers and maintainers of the old Popish Ceremonies as swearing upon a Book ringing of Bells for the dead sermons reading and praying for and over the dead which to do their dear brethren of Scotland do abhominate having rejected the same as Antichristian But left any should think what I have said touching our Covenanting Magistracy and Ministery to bee out of disaffection to their Cause and not of Truth I know that the great masters of this City who so cry up the Covenant will not admit any the freedome thereof notwithstanding they have served seven years for the same without submitting to Book-swearing the other day the Major and Chamberlaine of this Metropolis put backe and denyed one his freedome because bee would not take the Freemans Oath upon a booke Depositions of witnesses are now disalowed and rejected by our new Reforming Justices without the same be sworn upon a Book as I can prove These our Reformers doe they not discover how ready they will be to face about and willing to bow againe under the Episcopall yoak by their continuing the Statutes in force for not repairing to the Book of Common Prayer the English Masse as the Scots calls it for not repairing to the Common Prayer Booke 34. persons in Cumberland at Midsomer Sessions last were indicted by Order of our Parliaments Justices there In Yorkshire the 15. of June 1647. Mr Worsley had his Oxen and Cowes taken from him for his recusancy in not comming to the Common
condemne them by the very name and authority of some Councels without alledging the scriptures and reasons of the said Councels were out of reason for they submit themselves to prove that the Councels by the which their doctrine hath beene condemned were but petty Councels assembled and allowed by the tyranny of some who alone have decreed what they pleased against the authority of the scriptures without hearing or admitting of their adverse parties And doubtlesse in the ancient primative Church there were many Bishops which have rejected some Councels as suspect and not lawfull nor grounded upon the authority of the word of God but upon the authoritie of men as we read of Maximus Bishop of Ierusalem and of St Hillary Bishop of Poictiers yea and of St Athanasias Chrisestonie and Photinus so it is not without reason if many ages after them there have been Councels suspected to these men But as for the most Ancient and Received on either side they are content to allow of them so far forth as they prove their sayings by the word of God There resteth then nothing but that their reasons may be heard that the truth may be known and their heresies and errours avoided seeing there is no other means to procure a publick peace and to draw all the subjects to one Religion that if their adversaries as if there were no controversie in this point challenge the name of the Church and without hearing their reasons examined by the scriptures will that all that they shall ordaine or decree shall bee infallibly kept as an ordinance of the Church and so of God as they have done in the last Councel of Trent where the Pope was head and the adverse party not called but to be condemned and judged according to the ordinance of the Church that is to say of the Pope and Prelates or els to recant and then to bee receive into favour Without doubt there will be never any means to draw them from their beliefe seeing this Maxime will alwayes remaine graven in their hearts that they must in all things follow the word of God which alone hath authority to judge all Controversies and to define which is the true and the false Church which Maxime can never be wrested away by the authority of any man much lesse that the Pope and Prelats have any such Credit not by fire nor sword so as if their adversaries would not give them free audience as it is said but use violence they should but impaire their own Cause and make theirs better and more favourable whom they seek to root out Seeing then it is a Maxime or point resolved upon among all men of Judgement that touching the Faith and inward Beliefe no Corporall violence can command and that men must be confuted of errour in their Consciences we must examine the second point which wee have propounded which is Whether it were not possible to hinder the outward exercise of their Religion forbidding them to assemble preach teach nor to make any outward profession of that which they beleeve in heart And first In it were feasible whether it were fit and convenient to do it No religion whatsoever can subsist if it hath not some exterior exercises or ceremonies by the which it may be entertained whereupon the Emperor Gratian was wont to say that it was necessary the people should be maintained in some outward discipline of some Religion whatsoever it were good or bad For as man by nature is enclined to reject the yoke of God it is necessary he should be kept in awe and discipline else hee would bee like an untamed horse rejecting the fear of God and man Being then impossible to root out the Faith which they have in their hearts it were not convenient although it were possible to hinder their exteriour discipline and exercises by the which the people are maintained in their Religion and in the feare of God and of the Magistrate unless whereas in their Assemblies they are taught to be good men and to fear God and honour the King and his officers they will make them wicked Atheists Libertines and seditious perturbers of all good order and policy as we see plainly by daily experience For we see a number which have cast off the yoke of the Romish Church mocking at the Masse and Priests yet fear to lose their goods or honours refuse to apply themselves to discipline and exercise of any other Religion have become very Atheists without faith or law Yet there are no small number of villanous Libertines which make fects of themselves teaching that we must not serve God outwardly with any exterior form or discipline but onely in spirit and under this pretext they give themselves to all villany and abhomination to murthers rapes incests and adulteries holding that the outward things serve to no end so as the heart be cleer as they perswade themselves Yea some have been so audacious as to vaunt themselves to be Christ himself Others the Spirit of God And others Charity To conclude they are prophane people and contemners of God and the Magistrate maintaining that there ought not to be any sword or superiority used among men but that the spirit should rule govern and guide the heart of man as it pleaseth The which groweth through no other occasion but seing the great abuses which have reigned and do still reign in the Church and not being suffered on the other side to joyn themselves to any discipline and exercise of Religion they are grown to that pass as to think that dissimulation is not bad so as the heart be good and so mocking at Religion whereof they make a shew they must needs fall into wicked Atheism And there are none in the world more seditious and greater disturbers of all good order then these people as hath been seen in the Anabaptists of Munster and their like For the rooting out of which there were no better means whoso would consider all things without passion then to suffer them yea to command them expresly that all them which make profession of the Religion which they call Reformed should assemble in view of all the world and keep good discipline fit for the obedience which they owe unto God and the Magistrate correcting vices and excess for although there were no other good yet by this means they should get thus much which is of great importance for the preservation of the publick quiet That whereas we daily see spring up new and abhominable sects full of sedition and mutinies yea and of horrible blasphemies against the Majesty of God when as there should be but two publick kinds of profession in the view of all the world either of them performing the obedience which they owe unto God and the King when as any new one should spring up it would be easie to suppress it by the word of God But forasmuch as this seemeth strange to some to give Hereticks leave to sow their heresies let us
his Majesties intention they thrust the Countrey into great desolation and almost apparant danger of a ruine yet it is plainly to bee seene that the Arts Occupations and trades by meanes whereof this Countrey was wont to flourish above the rest do now decay and are transported to their neighbours the ancient enemies to the house of Burgoign and Austria It is almost incredible what prejudice the persecutions have brought within these forty yeares to the making of Cloth and Sayes and Tapestry which trades being as it were proper and peculiar to the Netherlands they have chased away by this means to the French English and other Nations I forbeare to speak of an infinite number of other good and profitable trades which are retired into forraigne Countryes to enjoy the liberty 〈◊〉 â—â—eir Consciences For in generall all the trafique of Marchandize hath been wonderfully interessed as many good men can witnesse In Antwerp Lillee Torney Valenciens and other such Townes and this hath beene one of the chiefe occasions why of late years the English have beene perswaded to leave Antwerp and goe to Embden that is to say from the flower of all Marchants townes full of infinite Commodities to a petty Towne obscure and of no commoditie Yea they are grown so proud by reason if this Drapery the spoiles of his Majesties Netherlands as they seeme to have no care to compound thinking that we have more need of them then they of us The French in like sort bragg that they are clothed with our spoils by reason of the Marchants that are fled for Religion so as that which did serve them as a bridle to bring them the sooner unto reason in time of warre will now make them more proud and untractable Besides It is well known that within the Countrey there be many sufficient Marchants which upon this occasion refuse to contribute in time of necessity fearing that this question of religion will be a subject unto their enemies to make them confiscable But above all It is to be considered That the profession of Armes and Warre which hath beene flourishing in these parts hath and will be greatly interessed if it be not other wayes prevented I will not speak of many Gentlemen good and faithfull subjects which might doe good service to his Majesty which are now retired to their houses fearing for this onely occasion to employ themselves in any occasion whatsoever Neither will I say that many others who desired to doe the King good service yea even of those which knew the seats and scituations of Countries are forced to leave their native soyle and to retire to their enemies prefering the liberty of their Consciences before all things in the world Without doubt there must a care be had for if any war should happen either against the English French or any other neighbour Countrie wee know not whom to trust and without doubt the enemies will not forget to make their profit upon 〈◊〉 occasion by all manner of practises to the great prejudice of his Majesty and all his Countrey and it is to be feared that among so many men there will bee some which under colour to seeke their Liberties will bee perswaded to attempt some Innovations The desire to live and serve God in Liberty of Conscience is of so great force as it makes men forget all other affections and passions how vehement soever for it not only maketh the subject neglect the duty which he oweth to his naturall King and Prince but it doth even estrange the hearts and withdraw the affections of Fathers and Mothers from their Children yea it maketh them forget themselves so as they make no difficulty to expose their bodies to the burning flames and to all sort of torments and to abandon wife and children leaving them nothing but poverty and famine rather then to lose this good in regard whereof there is nothing in this world that they esteem So that it is no wonder which some report for a truth that many among the Gascoignes and Provencials during the persecutions in France for matter of Religion have treated to yeild themselves tributary to the Turk hoping that by that meanes they would suffer them to live in liberty which they valued above all things and it may be they had put it in execution to the great prejudice of all Christendom if one onely respect had not restrained them which was that they held it too grievous to give their first borne children to the great Turk to be bred up in Mahomet's Religion for this affection is incredible and exceedeth all others the which being well considered with the great diversity of humours and conditions of men it were no strange thing if in so great a multitude of them that are persecuted for their Conscience some should be found more suddaine or more revengefull or impatient then the rest who would make no difficulty to attempt such exploits yea if it were but to revenge the grievous wrongs and injuries that were done for that Cause unto their kinsfolks and friends wherein it is greatly to be considered that there are no forts nor castles that maintain Kings in their greatnesse so much as the faithfull love of their subjects So contrarywise the King doth but provoke their hatred against his Majesty yea who otherwise are good and wel-governed men and live without reproach If the Inquisitors and their adherents feare not the Hugonots for that as they say they have not the wit to revenge themselves who maintain that they must do good for evil yet they may well have heard the common Proverb that patience too much urged in the end turneth to fury And if they be not void of all sense they must thinke that all the Kinsfolks friends and allies of them that they persecute are not of one minde and equall patience that they can so easily passe over the wrong which they thinke they have received so although there were no danger they should attempt any thing against his Majesty or his estates yet will they carry an irreconcileable hatred against his Officers whereby there will grow bad intelligence amongst his subjects which is a matter as every man knowes of very great importance as we may well see by the troubles of France the which partly took their beginning from such occasions and it is most manifest that if King Henry or his Father King Francis had in their times granted free exercise of Religion restraining them with good Lawes and Ordinances without doubt they had left their Realme much more happy and flourishing and had prevented so many calamities which have ensued I know there is some will say the like is not to be feared here considering the small numbers there is and therefore it were no reason that for a handfull of men and of the baser sort they should bring in any innovation But they that use such speeches discover their grosse ignorance or their unsupportable malice If there be any question to
yet they held it good and holy as the King holds his and it was the Religion which they received from their Ancestors above three thousand years past But wee finde also that Christian Emperours have endured alse Religions as it appears by the example of Theodosius Horatius and Arcadius who gave Temples to the Arrians and Novaâ—â—â—ns sometime within and sometime without the City as the necessity of the time and place required In the Ecclesiasticall History It is reported for a remarkable thing that Valentianus the Emperour was Orthodox and a good Christian yet he suffered the Arrians though he favoured them not so much as the others Vallens his Colleague or Companion in the Empire was an Arrian and would by no means suffer the Christians in his Government but did persecute them in all sorts whereby we may easily gather that in all well-governed common weales to avoid sedition and tumults it is sometimes necessary to grant Temples unto Hereticks not to the intent they should disperse their Heresies more but that the people hearing â—he truth confronted with falshood might without mutinies or tumults apply themselves quietly unto the true and right Religion But our Lord and Saviour saith that he came to bring war and not peace into the world so as in one house there shall bee dissentiou betwixt the Father and the Son the Brother and the brother How can we then maintain the Religion of Jesus Christ if they will reduce all the world to one faith and to one Law seeing that for the ordering thereof hee doth not command the faithfull to kill the rest but contrary wise he saith that the Apostles and faithfull should bee betrayed excommunicated and put to death for their faith and Religion and therefore he will have them win the field through patience and the vertue of his word So as I cannot wonder sufficiently at the impudency of these men who making a shew to be well read in all ancient Histories do maintain that there were never two different Religions in one Common weale for what will they say or answer to the diversity already alleadged betwixt the Pharisees Sadduces and â—â—â—sses without doubt they shall never finde that by reason of these Sects there was any great difficulty in the Government nor that Jesus Christ nor his Apostles did ever command to burne them for their Law What shall we say of the diversity of Religions that were among the heathen whereof one did not know anothers Gods No not the Names And some also maintained publiquely that God did not care for humane things And yet wee finde not that the Government of the Romanes was troubled for this cause But who doth not see at this day under the great Turk a great diversity of Religions so as among the Christians alone there are fifteen or twenty Sects and sundry Religions besides the Jewes Persians and Mahumatists all subjects to his Empire the which are more contrary the one to the other for matter of Religion then water is contrary unto fire Without doubt if these diversities were the true cause of seditions and tumults It were not possible that the Turks power should grow so great It is then a great ignorance to think that subjects cannot be maintained in quiet when they are of divers Religions for who so will look neerly to the spring and beginnings of tumults and seditions he shall find that they proceed not so much from the diversity of Religions as through private passions as through covetousness ambition revenge hatred and such like from the which small quarrels may grow and when the Magistrate prevents it not in time then by little and little they inflame and are cause of tumults and publike seditions witness the troubles and seditions in Italy betwixt the Guelphs and Gibellines the which continued four hundred years and was the cause of infinite murthers rapes wars and all sorts of violence and yet there was no difference in the Religion but all did grow for that the Magistrate did feed the private passions of their Subjects instead of suppressing them by Justice And as for controversies touching Religion it is not two hundred years since that the controversies betwixt the Franciscans and the Iacobines for the Conception of the Virgin Mary had caused great troubles throughout all Christendom Not that the controversie was of any great importance but through the negligence of the Magistrate who nourished these factions and became partisans Seing then it appeareth that whereas good order hath been setled people of divers sects and Religions have been quietly governed without any sedition or tumult and contrariwise whereas no order was not onely diversity of Religion but even small quarrels have bred horrible seditions and tumults any man of Judgement may gather thereby that seditions and tumults take not their increase from the importance of the quarrel whereupon they are grounded but rather through the want of good order for that the Magistrates neglect to punish them that entertain them or else themselves maintain one party the which is confirmed by many ancient and modern examples And who so will examine strictly the last troubles of France shall find that the greatest part have hapned for that some mighty men or Governours themselves having no regard to the publick good nor to the ordinances of the States have at their own pleasures plaid the Kings and insulted of their own authorities over them of the Religion I think no man is so ignorant but knows that the murther committed at Vassey by the Duke of Guise against the laws of the King and State hath been the true and onely cause of the Civil Wars which followed to the ruine of the whole Realm for whilest the Kings proceeded by their authority there was no newes of any sedition how grievous soever the persecution were but when as Governours of their owne authorities offered violence to those of the Religion presently all these tumults grew the which may serve us for a good example whereby we may learn to avoid the like inconveniences and take some good course for the benefit of the King and of all his good subject which seek onely to obey him It is then easie to resolve that good order would be setled if liberty should be granted to them of the Religion to assemble and exercise their discipline restraining and bridling them with such laws as shall be thought good and that the Kings Magistrates and Officers be careful to execute his Majesties intention foreseeing above all things that the people usurp not the autority of the sword under colour of the factions of great men so as above all things there must be a prevention that all violence be forborn on either side and that those which proceed by any other unlawful means as by taxing and slandring shall be well punished which doubtless will be a most assured means and the subjects shall live in good unity and concord together and will carry a perfect obedience unto his