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A16910 Demands to be propounded of Catholickes to the heretikes by Richard Bristow ... ; taken partly out of his late English booke of Motiues to the Catholicke faith, partely out of his printed Latin booke of the same matter. Bristow, Richard, 1538-1581. 1623 (1623) STC 3801.5; ESTC S1528 47,404 192

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Seeing you acknowledge in your Confession of faith that the Sacraments ought only to be ministred by such as are called therunto by ordinary vocation I demand if your vocation vnto the ministrie be like vnto the calling of all others who haue gone before you in the Church of Christ since the time of the Apostles whom both yee and wee repute and hould to haue been Iawfull pastors and teachers of his flock as S. Cyprian S. Augustin S. Ambrose and diuers others wishing you to shewin al points the conformitie of your vocation with that of theirs 5. who their Doctors Seing after the discours of the election of your Ministers Elders and Deacons yee acknowledge that the Scriptures make mention of a fourth kind of Ministers lest vnto the Church of Christ which also are very necessarie profitable Ephes 4. 1. Cor. 12. and are called by the name of teachers and doctors whose office it is to teach and instruct the faithfull in sound doctrine prouiding with all diligence that the puritie of the gospel be not corrupted ether throgh ignorance or false opinion I pray you to shew at what time any Doctors of such calling haue bene in your Church before Iohn Caluin because the places of Scripture noted by you teach and declare that God hath appointed such meanes in his church that it should neuer be left desolate nor yet his Doctrine to decay for wāt of Doctors other teachers 6. Their admission of Tinkers c. And seeing yee confes in the same place that men cannot profit so well in the knowledge aforesayd vnles they be first instructed in the learned tongues humane sciences for now God doth not commonly worke by miracles and that therefore it is necessary that seed be sowen for the tyme to come to the end that the Church be not left barren wast vnto posterity and also that for this effect schooles be erected wherin youth may be trayned vp in the knowledge and feare of God I demand why yee admitted at the first entry of your doctrine into Scotland and yet doe Taylors Skinars and other Artificers who were neuer instructed but in their owne craft and occupation which they left and abiured and out of their owne heades without any further calling vnto the ministery began to teach the people hauing for all their learning and forme of preaching some English books only which yet themselues very hardly vnderstood 7. If the only written word be Iudge Seeing that among other heads of your alleadged fayth this is one principall that nothing is to be beleeued Cal. l. 4. Inst c. 8. sect 8. but what is found in the written word I demaund what testimony yee haue in the same for assurance of your faith in this point And whether the fayth of the Apostles was groūded on the written word or not 8. S. Thomas Ghospell Where is it written that there is only foure Ghospels and that the Ghospell of S. Matthew with the other three ought to be recea ued and not the Ghospell of S. Thomas Or what authority hath moued you to receaue som books or chapters for canonical scriptur and to refuse or reiect others Or if any man deny any booke of the new Testament as Martin Luther doth the epistle of S. Iames what argumentes haue yee from the Scripture to condemne him Praef. in nou Test 9. VVhy Iewes credited Seeing yee giue so great authority to the Synagogue of the Iewes that according to their canon yee admit reiect sundry bookes of holy Scripture why giue yee not the like authority to the Christian church which hath gone before you in receauing such bookes as are approued by her for canonicall Scripture And if the only cause which moues you to reiect such bookes be because they were not approued by the Synagogue of the Iewes why by the same reason reiect yee not Christ himselfe seeing that Synagogue would not admit him for their Messias 10. Churches authoritie If it be the office of the church to discerne betwixt canonicall Scripture and not canoniall as a De capt Bab Luther b In prologo cont Pet. à Soto Brentius and other of your owne masters doe confes why should not the same church be heard of you in giuing her interpretation vpon any doubtfull place therof called in question Or why call yee more in dout the interpretation of the Scripture giuen by the Church then the very bookes themselues Or why prefer yee the priuat opiniō of Iohn Caluin and your selues before the vniuersall and vniforme consent of all Christian people before you 11. Citing only the written word Why esteeme yee Calu. l. 4 Inst c. 8. num 13. that yee haue an infallible marke of the true religion because yee cite only the written word seeing this hath beene common to all heretiques from the beginning Or what haue you more to say for your felues then they had for themselues in this point 12. If Scripture be easy If the Scripture be so easy as yee teach it to be c Luth de ser arbit what hath moued your owne writers to make so many cōmentaryes therupon Or what is the cause that ther is so great controuersy in religiō as we see at this day Yea euē vpon the expresse wordes of the last Testament of our Lord which according to the nature of a Testament should be most cleere 13. Conference of places If the priuate iudgment of euery one conferring Scripture with Scripture be a certaine and infallible rule of right interpretatiō as yee say how is it that so many grosse contradictions are foūd in your writinges gayn-saying not only one another but your selues also as is euident in your owne bookes 14. No meanes to be resolued Seeing that the Lutherans the Zuinglians and the Caluinists besides an infinite number of other sectes doe euery one alleage the written word for cōfirmation of their contrarie opinions how shall it be knowen to any man that would resolue himselfe in matters of religion which of them haue the true word sith it is the true vnderstanding that maketh the word and not the outward sounding of the voice as Christ himselfe saith who obiected to the Saduces Mat. 12. that they mistooke the Scriptures because they vnderstood not the meaning of them 15. Traditions Why deny yee any credit to be giuen to Traditions contrary to a Cal. l. 4. iust c. 10. the expres commandment of the Apostle writing to the Thessalonians in this maner b 2. Thes 2. Stand and keepe the Traditions which yee haue receiued whither by word or by our epistle And also contrary to the doctrne of all the auncient doctors of the church Or how haue yee the Scripture it selfe but by Tradition And seeing yee will giue no place vnto Traditions what assurance haue yee that since the Natiuitie of Christ there is only 1623. yeares Or whither it be lawfull for Christian men to call this point in
Succession And whether our church cannot shew in plaine authenticall writing the continuall Succession of her Bishopes and Pastors with their flockes euer since the Apostles time Or whether the Protestants Church can doe the like Yea whether they can in our Countrey referre them selues any further then to the letters patents of the Prince And whether this haue not bene e Opt. l. 2. f. 15. Hier. in Mic. 1. Aug. in Psa con par Do. nat alwaies vsed as a marke most certaine to knowe the true Church from Schismatikes and Heretikes euen in the f 3. Reg. 12. g. 31. Olde Testament also The 44. Demaund Apostolike Church VHHETHER in the Creede that we in our Masse and they in their Communion do vse this word Apostolicall were or could be put in as a plaine marke to know the Church which we must beleeue but only as it directeth vs to the Church of Rome seeing by experience that all other Apostolicall Churches Trent de praes Har. are now fayled Or whether the Roman Church be not Apostolicall as being the Sea of the two most glorious chiefe Apostles Iren. l. 3. c. 3. Opt l. 2. Aug ep 165. S. Peter and S. Paul Or whether in tyme of schisme and heresy the Fathers in their tymes hauing many Seas Apostolike did not chiefly looke themselues and direct others to the Apostolike Sea of Rome shewing therby that the Truth was theirs because the Bishop of Rome that came of the Apostles by lineall succession was theirs And therfore whether we haue not iust cause to followe their example specially seeing that Sea still hold on and continue as the Fathers said it should to the number now of two hundred and thirtie Bishopes Aug. in ps cont part Don. wheras to those Fathers time there were not fourtie The 45. Demaund Changinge VVHETHER we haue not yet againe iuste cause to keepe vs with the Churche of Rome seeing that the Romanes neuer changed their Faith which a Act. 2. g. 31. Rom. 10 c. 12. 6. 17. 16. c. 19. they receiued of S. Peter S. Paul Which is so plaine that I appeale to the Protestants them selues whether the Romans did not for example Pray for the dead euen then when those Fathers aforesaid did auouch that they were vnchāged yea so wondēring euen thē also at Aerius for denying the same that togeather with all other Churches they condemned him as an Heretike for going about to change that which alwaies vnitll then they had keapte vnchanged as they doe keepe it stil both that all the rest and that by the Protestantes owne confession these thousād or twelue hūdred years Whereby no wise man can doubt but that they remaine also the rest vp to the Apostles time also without change Yea to consider no more but that since Luthers time the Popes haue not changed one iote and that the Heretickes on the other side haue not since then lefte nor do not leaue changing euery daye may to any man of indifferent iudgement seeme a demonstration that the Popes neuer at all did chang And as for one or two amongst all the Popes whom they charge with erring first we deny it for it is most false as the learned Catholikes haue well declared Secondly we say supposing some Popes had erred yet neuer did any Pope goe about to chang the Romans faith with his error Thirdely we say and let the wise consider it well that were it so those Popes did erre also goe aboute to infect the Romans with those errors yet is it not those errors wherewith the Protestantes do now charge the Pope the Romanes And therefore whē they blasphemously burden S. Liberius with Arrianisme or any other with the like they might better holde their peace then so to lie yet their lye nothing at all vnto the purpose The 46. Demaund Our Auncestors saued THEN whether al this while that they cōfesse our church to haue bene at least 12 hundred yeeres they will say that all our and their fathers mothers grād fathers and grandmothers and other Anncestors Kinsefolke Countreimen and all others that haue gonne so long for Christian men Iustin. l. 4. cap. 2 in fine c are all dāned in Hell yea whether Caluine him selfe do not confesse the contrarie that our Church I say serued well the turne all this while to saue men from Hell and to bringe men to Heauen Aske them then why it cannot serue still that turne as wel Or if they say that ignorāce afore did excuse now because of their preaching it cannot aske them why they do confesse that S. Augustine and such like are of all most surely saued who yet had not this ignorance but knew right well their new doctrine as in Aerius Iouinianus Vigilantius c and condēned it for most wicked Heresie And therefore whether it be not wisdome for al men to hold thē still in our chuch or to returne againe vnto it The 47. Demaund Communion of Saintes ALSO whether their church as it neuer was in the world before now so now at theire first appearing haue not cōmitted many most foule absurdities in pinching vp it selfe so narowly into the streightes of one small Countrey that in it one Christian man to another euen in spirituall affaires is a stranger that in it an Ecclesiasticall and Apostolicall power erected by Christ is deemed a foreiner that in it any Generall Councell that euer was or euer can be gathered of the Bishops of other Nations of al christēdom yea or of their owne confederats can take beare or haue no whit of authoritie that in it Epistles directed frō beyond the Sea by S. Paule himselfe if he were aliue such as his Epistles to the Romanes Corinthians c could beare no sway that in it all the Apostles togither writing frō their Synode of Hierusalem as they did to the Antiochians Act. 15. might beare no stroake that in it Christ himselfe without the King and the Parliaments consent might not dispose of his own churches but hold his peace and leaue his medling like a Foreiner as he was vnlesse he would say that he were the naturall King of Englande and displace the lawefull heires of the Kinges afore time because by their saying that headship cannot be separated from the kingshipe being as they say a real naturall and essential parte therof and therfore they shoulde not write the King of Englande Head of the Church of England no not vnder Christ vnlesse they wold write him also King of England vnder Christ. Of many other their absurdities Conf. l. 9 c. 12.24 as that S. Augustine there with our Priestes doeing his request should forfeite an hundred Markes for saying Masse for his Mothers soule c. I here say nothing The 33. Demaund VVhere Christ worketh VVHETHER it be not our Church onely which now and euer is so blessed of God and so embrued with Christes Blood that she hath grace in