Forefathers who never till then were admitted unto the sight of God he rose and instructing his Church 40. dayes in it's sight ascended into heaven whence after ten dayes he sent the Holy Ghost himself remaining there till the day of judgment when he will return to take accompt of his benefits he hath bestow'd upon us The Catechist ought to note out of the discourses pass'd of how sublime and unparalell'd an essence our God is who by his Nature which is purest most refin'd Quintessence of Substance or Being added to his perfections of Knowing and Loving himself obliges us to affirm truly of him thas he has in one Nature three Persons which is highest contradiction in the perfect est of all Creatures existent or even possible Also how God was so good as our nature being imperfect of it self supernaturally to help it with incomparable graces and gifts Secondly how death Sickness and all other mischiefs being excluded by God crept in by man's own fault and the procuring of the Devil How quickly our nature grew to that extremity that of the whole world hardly eight men were found righteous And presently again not five men in five Cities What a perpetual care God â—â—d of the family of Abraham by promises miracles punishments rewards yet could not by those means keep them from sin and damnation What 't is for God to be made Man the eternall impassible essentially-blisfull to become a child the most tender passive of all creatures and franght with miseries and griefs See his life nothing different from ours unless that it was more stuff'd with woes from one end to the other in poverty subjection contradiction affliction and in the end and last act the example of all indignity that human wit could invent and the shape of man endure think how all this was suffer'd for our sakes he knowing every one for whom he suffer'd and of so great a number excluding none for whom he did not undertake these pains as if there were no other as freely as the Sun shone on Adam when he was alone no less then upon the millions that now be And out of all these considerations let him strive to raise the Catechumen to admiration and love of so great Goodness a full resolution to make use of so many and so powerfull means to advance himself in virtue which is the fruit of all that went before SIXTH CONFERENCE M. HAving now learn'd that there is a God his properties how he created man how he conducted him through so many ages till the coming of himself into the world in the second Person of his blessed Deity Having also understood the oeconomy of his sacred Humanity till his bitter passion glorious resurrection wonderfull ascension and gracious sending of the Holy Ghost which was the first effect and chiefest of his whole peregrination It follows to consider the End of all which was the stating of mankind in that perfection to which he intended to conduct him Now then Child can you tell me what was the intention of Christ's coming S. Sir you have told me already that 't was to redeem Mankind from the deluge of sin wherein he was drown'd by the fall of Adam and give him a state by which he might attain to Paradise M. I but what is the immediat step by which a man comes to Heaven S. That also me thinks I have learn'd to bee the Love of God above all things For you told me this was Sanctity and I know we call those Saints who either are in Heaven or in the right way to it M. Well said But I would have you shew me that the Love of God makes a man go to Heav'n and because you cannot without help hearken a little unto me The Good of Heaven consists in seeing God Almighty not with the eyes by which you walls and trees and sun and stars but with the eyes by which you know you are this day and neither yesterday nor tomorrow by which you know you must have been yesterday yet it may happen you may nor be tomorrow and other Truths or things of this quality which the least of you is capable of Now he that loves God above all things especially if he have done it long cannot chuse but desire to know and see him whom he loves so much Wherefore when he dies and has no more any distraction by his senses he is wholy set upon that object and so extreamly miserable unless he can obtain it wherefore if God be not hard-hearted as Goodness it self cannot be what remains but that he must needs let himself be seen by him which is to be in heaven And this a Divine would tel you were to determin God of necessity to the giving of Bliss as the putting of all second causes requisit to the making a man determins him to the infusion of the rational soul But we must not be so learned Do you know how the Divines or rather all Christians do ordinarily term this Love of God S. Yes Sir I think this is the vertue they call Charity by which we love God for himself our neighbours for him and for both their sakes do all the rest of our actions and so order our whole lives to the service of God M. 'T is well said but can you tell what reason you have to love God S. Yes For seing we naturally love that which is good as good meat good drink good cloaths c. and God is Algodness there can be no doubt but we have great reason to love God Besides he hath done us many singular benefits or rather hath given us all we have by which we know he loves us and for both these causes is to be loved by us M. Very well and you may add that we are like him being made wholy to his Image and things that are like one another are apt to love one another as we see all creatures love their own kind But seeing you call this Charity and know there 's a second part thereof which is to love your Neighbour or all other men as your self know you why you are to do so S. Sir not wel M. Why do you not see that all knives are to cut hammers to knock and therefore who would have a hammer to cut or knife to knock were out of â—â—ason So likewise al men being of one Nature are for one â—nd and fit for the same things He therefore that would wish one thing for himself because 't is fit for him and not wish the like to his neighbour were very unreasonable And if he wishes the like to his Neighbour as to himself he loves him as himself But tell me now he that loves God has he not reason to hope he shall see God S. Yes Sir since 't is necessary that who loves God shall see God no doubt but he has reason
a love as Adam had must needs have it 's effects in the Body also as indeed it had And as wee see the practice of memory makes men easy to learn without book the practice of discoursing fit to discourse and so in all actions and this by nothing but by the fitting of the bodily instruments and organs So this love did either fit the very corporeal disposition to such love or increase that fitness it found there already by this means making the very corporeall desires subject to Reason that this body being prevented with reason could not incline to any thing before Reason gave it leave and order But tell me farther have you not heard that children be like their fathers S. Yes Sir I know well 't is the ordinary complement of Gossips to say the child is like the father which shews that ordinarily 't is so M. And this likeness is it in the body onely or also in the Soul S. I cannot tell how one should be like another in the soul which has no parts M. Did you not say the Soul works upon the body if then you see those works which come from the soul to bee alike in two can you think but that their souls be alike alsâ— â—s if they discourse alike love like things jeâ—t write a poem or oration alike would you not judge their Souls alike So then 't is not ill conjectur'd that when the body of the Son is like the body of the Father also the Soul of the Son is like the Soul of the Father And I remember to have heard judicious men say of some persons that when they saw them jest or discourse they thought they saw their fathers S. How should the Soul which is made by God come to be like the Soul of the Father which had nothing to do with it M. If there were severall kinds of matter of diversâ— dispositions as wax wood aq a vit â— stuâ—ble brimstone c. of which you intended to make Fiâ—e or as wee say in the schools to introd â—cethe Form of Fire into them Though each would become indeed a thing able to burn or Fire yet would you expect in reason that this active Principle or power of burning call'd the Form of Fire should bee equally in each of them S. No Sir I see plainly by experience 't is not to bee expected each would have power to burn on a different fashion and in a different degree But I am not so wise as to see whence this difference sâ—rings M. You see it springs not from the Form of Fire in each for that has nothing else to do but to make it Fire or a thing able to burn S. True Sir for 't is one thing to bee apt to burn another to bee apt to burn differently I conceive therefore this difference arises from the severall dispositions in the Matter or severall Fuells you spoke of M. You see then 't is the way the All-wise orderer of Nature takes that a diversity in the disposition of the matter determins to a diversity in the active Principle or Form according to certain degrees within the same species or kind The Rational soul then being the Form of man's Body or that which makes him man you see 't is God's method to put like Souls into like bodies therefore the father making the body of the son like his own will not his soul also be made by God like to the father's soul and so the souls of like bodies be like of unlike bodies unlike S. Yes sure sir that must be so seeing the soul doth fit the body M. Then if the soul of Adam had that operation on it's body as to make a special disposition in it by which it was subject to reason and this disposition proceeded from the strong love of Almighty God as on the one side Adam would make a son like himself in that subjection to reason so God Almighty would give his son a soul fit to love God above all things the disposition of the soul proceeding from such a disposition of the body S. Yes Sir 't is evident hee would or else he should not put a fitting soul into the Son's body M. This prov'd you must know that our forefathers call the Love of God above all things Justice and Sanctity which because it was so given to Adam as to descend unto his Heyrs it was call'd Originall Iustice and said to bee a naturall gift and to come unto them by nature who were to bee born with it Besides this gift God Almighty fiâ—ted the place to the man that there should bee no evilâ— ayr or other occasion of harm unto him whence because wisedom kept him from mischance and the place from infection hee could not dy but of Age for remedy against which God had provided the tree of lâ—fe and so he would have liv'd for ever But to proceed yet a little farther If Adam left lovinâ— God would he have this disposition in his body S. No Sir for if the Love of God were the cause of this disposition the contrary would cause the loss of it M. You say well specially if you add that hee could not leave off loving God but because hee lov'd some other thing better which love having it's effect in the body must needs cross the o ther disposition left before and if this bee so that he left off loving God how would it fare with his children S. How but that they would bee born subject to such dispositions as the love of other things bâ—ed in them But Sir I have heard that Adam after his fall did pennance and began to love God a new wherefore me thinks he should again recover the disposition of loving God for himself and his posterity M. What you have heard is true but not the good effect you gather For his second love finding dispositions in the body contrary to it's proper nature cannot on the suddain extirpaâ—e them but with a great deal of pain and labour and as wee experience in our selves never wholly because these Affections are before Reason and alter the temperament of the Body due and req â—sit to Originall Justice which it lyes not in the power of Reason nor of other Bodies being of a different temper exactly to repair Whence it never comes to pass that the father can communicate his whole vertuous disposition to his child though wee see the likeness of a well practiz'd father to be naturally in the son And this is that which Christians call Originall Sin the missing of Grace or Originall Iustice in the child through the fault of our first father so that the want or privation is particular to every one the cause or actuall guilt onely in Adam FOURTH CONFERENCE M. THus far we have declar'd the nature of Originall Sin in it self can you tell me the
not so fully as I desir'd Know then that Vocal prayer has two excellencie over Mentall The first is that 't is made by some who have more skil then wee have and therefore is more perfect for the most part then one of our Mentall prayers Secondly it keeps from distraction much because by our eyes if we read them or our memories if we say them without book it holds our understanding to the matter better then when wee have no such determination But likewise on the other side it has two disadvantages one that it does not so weâ—l fill our souls being neither so much labour'd as what we make our selves nor so naturally proportionable to us as what we do our selves Thirdly for the most part it wants some of the three parts mention'd or rather wholy demurrs upon the last neglecting the two former But those which are call'd written meditations if they be wel done are very good for beginners that practise themselves sel me now which prayers you think the best S. I must needs say the beads and the Primer or Manuall for I have no other M. If you do those wel you are wel sped But what I would counsel you is to chuse such prayers as you understand rather then those you do not As I fear you understand but few in your Primer So that though that be best in it self yet those more befit you which you better understand And as for your beads I fear you attend but little when you say them you should therefore have some mystery of our Saviour's or our Lady's life to thank God for in every two or three Ave Maries which might make you think of what you did Two tens thus feelingly sayd were better then three payr of beads tumbled over with your mind upon your breakfast S. Sir I will endeavour to get them as you say M. But in the mean time tel mee what 's the necessity or profit of prayer S. Sir it pleases God spends our time well obtains all benefits of him and fulfils his commandments M. This is very true but I look yet for another at your hands which is that t is the very way or walk to Heaven S. Sir you said that Clarity was the way to Heaven M. And is not Prayer the consideration of things necessary to our salvation and not a dry consideration but a moving of our will out of them and lastly the excercising of our Affections towards God Almighty procur'd by the said consideration Now how do you think we journey to heaven but by our affections or come to affections but by consideration so that you see Meditation is nothing but the right way to Heaven in which other men are lead by sermons reading good books and the like but the meditatour goes of himself by his own pains and industry Moreover the use of Mentall praver being the thinking on or considering that which is the chiefest good wee have also our soul being ever carry'd backward unless by due consideration it bee forc'd against the stream of our naturall inclinations hence we must needs live blindly and go two steps back for one towards heaven without the use of Prayer or something equivalent to it And thus much may 〈◊〉 for the Utility and Necessity of Prayer EIGHTH CONFERENCE M. TO go on do you think hee loves you that beats you without a cause or keeps your own from you S. No Sir perhaps indeed a friend may beat one hee loves when there 's some reason for it but otherwise hee 's no friend and shews litle love M. Therefore if you love God your self and your Neighbour you must not hurt them but do them all the good you can especially if it be due unto them What can you do to God S. Good I can do none to him but my duty is to be carefull in such things as concern his honour such as be all things which belong to prayers the Church M. You say well and in Latin the rites of serving God are call'd Religiones whence this virtue is by Divines call'd Religion Priests specially Bishops and Curats and such as have care of the publik ceremonies of the Church entitled Religiosi as also such men as binde themselves to certain pious observations are call'd Religiosi or Religions for the same reason Wel tel mee first what do you ow to your self S. Nothing Sir for I can forgive my self if I did ow any thing to my self and so it would be no debt or duty M. Now you speak beyond your skil for seing you are made by God of a determinate nature in so making you hee has directed you to some actions which you by your own free-will must not transgress but second and so you are bound to the conservation of your self and ow to your self the endeavours conformable to such actions and the principles of these actions are not to prefer a lesser good before a greater nor to chuse a greater harm before a lesser And this is done by two vertues Temperance by which you abstain from a less good to get the greater and Fortitude or Valour by which you undergo the less harm that you may avoid the greater What do you ow your Neighbour S. I have borrow'd nothing but those who have ow what they have borrow'd or taken otherwayes from him M. Do you not know your Neighbours are either your Equalls your Betters or your Inferioors To your Inferiours you ow love and to be ready to do them any good you can as others your betters have done and daily are ready to do for you To your Equalls the same in substance although in an other degree To your Superiours and Betters Duty or Obedience and Respect All this you ow to your Neighbours the vertue wheâ—eof is ordinarily call'd Justice So have you found three vertues call'd morall or Cardinall Concerning which you are to know two things The first that wee ought to exercise them for the Love of God if we will have them profit us for going to heaven although they have in them selves a kind of good For as you see in a fair picture garden or castle or any such thing an impression of Reason call'd Art which is delightsome and conformable to our nature so also in the morall actions of man there is a decorum or honestas which gives content both to the doer and the spectatour which entices morall men to do such actions The other is that every one of these is divided into diverse sorts and kinds according to severall matters in which they are imploy'd For example Fortitude in an action full of difficulty is called Courage in suffering Patience in length Perseverance in warr Valour c. Temperance towards women is call'd Chastity in drink Sobriety in action Modesty c. Iustice towards God Religion or devotion towards your Country Parents Piety
that some-thing is made by God therefore seeing God can do whatever any thing made by him 't is clear he can do all things which is to be Almighty But tell me now do you think when God does a thing he knows what he does S. It were a shame to doubt of that since we accompt him a fool who knows not what he does besides since God makes us know what we do and is himself perfecter than we he must needs know what he does even better than we M. And he that knows a thing does not he know what that thing can do for example can a man know a knife or a clock without knowing that the one can cut and the other tell the hour of the day S. That 's impossible as also that God should not know what any work of his can do M. See again how you shew that God knows all things for since he knows what himself made and what all the things he made can do and nothing is or can be done but what himself and they do it follows that God knows all and every thing that is done great and little to the number of the thoughts of men and angells to the division of dust and sands and whatever els is done nay and what can be done though it neither be nor ever will be done But now tell me do you know by your body or by your soul S. By my soul M. And wherein differs your soul from your body is 't not in this that your body has many parts takes up room or place your soul on the contrary is indivisible and wants no place nor has any parts but is a Spirit S. Al this I remember to have learnt now you put me in mind of it M. Then seeing you sind that God knows all things what do judge him to be S. Certainly a Spirit but yet I know not well what a Spirit is nor what conceit or apprehension to make of it M. Do you conceive what 's meant by these words Mind Understanding Wit Thought Knowledge c. If you do you have made some apprehension of a spirit It suffices then at present to conceive God to be such a thing that he is a Knowledge and works by it But tell me is God a Spirit joyn'd with a body as our soul is or a pure Spirit without any Body S. Methinks if God were made up of Spirit and body there were no impossibility iâ— him but his Spirit might be without his Body and so God might dy or not be which makes against the necessity of his being alwayes formerly prov'd M. But yet this Mind or Spirit must have the perfection of all Bodies in it since as is already shown It can do whatever all Bodies can S. This is very clear in my minde M. Then you see that God is a pure Spirit or Minde containing in it self the natures and perfections of all things that is all Being and all Goodness Here the Catechist ought to exhart the Cathecumen or person he catechizes to the admiration and reverence of God out of his plenitude of Perfection To the fear of God out of his Omniscience and Omnipotence And to the love of him out of his All-goodness SECOND CONFERENCE M. YOU remember you told me that God Almighty made Adam Can you tell mee why he made him and first whether he wanted him S. No Sir he could not want him for seeing hee 's All-goodness he could want no good thing and for what 's bad or naught there can bee no want or need of that M. At least did he get any thing by him or was he richer after then before S. No Sir he that hath all can get nothing M. At least as you have pleasure when your hear your self commended or see your self honour'd and serv'd so did God get any new content S. Sir without doubt it could not but please him For so I am taught that my good works please God and my sins displease him M. 'T is very true that he is pleas'd with our good works and displeas'd with our bad But not so that he conceiv's new pleasure or displeasure but with the pleasure of good which hee had for ever and the displeasure of bad likewise he had for ever For if hee could receive new pleasure or displeasure he would get some thing he had not before which you told me he could not But now if he got neither profit nor content by making Adam why did he make him S. Sir I cannot tell you that for I never do good but I get something that contents me M. If you should finde a poor wretch in a wilderness ready to starve and you had store of victuals would you not give him some S. Yes sir and should think my self unworthy to live unless I did M. And why for you should neither have honour nor profit neither though peradventure afterwards you would have pleasure would you think of that when you did it S. I know not Sir why but good nature would make me do it M. And now you have told me why For 't is the nature of Goodness to do good as of heat to heat and of cold to cool And so God being all Goodness needs no other cause why to do good then that himself by nature is Goodness or as you call it of a good nature But tell me again did God Almighty make you S. No Sir my Father and my Mother made me M. Think you so and I pray if your Master should whip you or make the Stationer give you a fine new book would you thank the Stationer or be angry at the rod or rather be thankfull or displeas'd towards your Master S. Towards my Master Sir But I do not see that God Almighty either bad my Father or Mother make me or used them to that end M. No Did you not tell me that God made Adam Adam his Son and so till it came to your father and mother S. Yes Sir but this is a great way off from God's making me M. It will come nearer You told me also that God knew all that was to be done or could be done by the things he made And again that what he did he did out of his Goodness you see then that hee knew your Father and Mother would make you and would have it so and out of his Goodness put the causes which should make you What does your Master more when he either rewards or punishes you but onely puts the causes out of which hee intends and knows your good or harm will follow Well if this bee agreed on that God made you tell me now whether you have any thing that God did not bestow upon you S. No Sir for what ever I should say I had from my self or from any other you will in the same manner shew
that the causes coming from God hee uses them to make mee have those things and so bestow'd them on mee M. 'T is well sayd But to whether are you more beholding for the thing you have to God or to him that immediatly gives it you for example for your life and being to God or your parents for your learning to God or your master S. Hitherto Sâ—r I am sure I have given more thanks to my Parents and Masters but now I know not what I ought to do M. How soon have you forgot you own saying did you not tell mee that your affection was not at all towards the Stationer or rod to which your father and master are compar'd but onely to your Master that rewarded or corrected you how then are you so soon ignorant whom you are most to thank God or the next causes of your good S. By that rule I should ow nothing to my parents and master but onely to God M. Not so neither but to every one according to the good will he bears you and the share he has in the good deed Now as for God Almighty you know there is no cause concurring nor any least part of the work which belongs not totally to him on all sides and from the very beginning Therefore how much the good is 't is wholy and entirely due unto him but your Parents and Master are not the thousandth part of the Causes and therefore though thanks be due to them in respect they are the immediate causes yet in comparison of what 's due to God you are not one thousandth part beholding to them Again you told mee God knew perfectly all things belonging to this good you possess and the best owing of it But the next cause understands not perfectly what himself does but is bent to his work beyond his own understanding as you may easily see by this that your self when you walk know not how you do it and we may be pos'd in twenty things which belong to walking which nevertheless our selves do But amongst all things you have are not works some as singing playing understanding eating and the rest and therefore also whatsoever you do comes likewise from Aâ—mighty God S. Yes Sir I see well enough that because my self and all other causes of my action come from God it must needs follow that my actions come from him But I dare not say so for fear I should make him author of my sins which I have been taught he is not M. 'T is well thought on But if you knew that Sâ—n were but want of doing or not-doing you would not fear that consequence For as you see when a man takes a knife to cut with the cutting pâ—oceed from the man but that it cuts not so well as it should proceeds from the bluntness or want of edge in the knife and likewise the writing proceeds from the Scrivener but that the pen gives not ink well or blots comes from the evill fashioning or slitting of the pen so what a man does is from God but that he does not so well as he ought which is to sin proceeds from some defect in the man For as from fire cold cannot proceed nor from water driness so from the Fountain of Being and Goodness the want of goodness and being cannot spring By this you easily gather that God is the Governour of this world seeing all things are done by his disposition and government Here the Catechist ought to exhort his Catechumen to remember and perform his duty towards God who as he gives us all things freely so he deserves that we offer independently from reward all our works and wills to him As he made us so as creatures wee are his slaves As he gave us every thing we have all our goods are his As he is more cause then the next causes so is hee to be preferr'd before all As he does all our works in us so requires hee the honour of all be attributed to him As he is not author of sin so is he not to be charg'd with any fault or want on his side And as hee 's Governour of the world so is he to be pray'd to fear'd and respected THIRD CONFERENCE M. VVEll now Adam's made what did God give him S. Sir I know not that for I have not read the Scripture whence that is co be known M. But you know what things make a man and doubt not but God gave them perfectly to Adam for a good workman makes his work good and would be asham'd if it should come out of his hands otherwâ—se than perfect according to that saying that a good tree cannot breed ill fruit S. I know a man is made of Body and Soul and so Adam had those M. What are the perfections of the Bâ—dy are they not Health which consists in the integrity of all parts of our body and ability to use them well Strength to carry heave draw push and and the like Nimbleness or agility by which wee do our actions with life and quickness and lastly Beauty which graces both body and actions Likewise in the Soul wee see Understanding and Will Understanding comprehends Memory of things past Judgment of the present and Forecast of things to come Can you doubt whether these things were given to Adam S. No Sir for seeing wee have them from Adam sure Adam could not fail to have had them and to have receiv'd them from God M. But do you think Adam had no more then wee have either in body or soul in our birth S. Yes sir yet I am not well able to imagin what t is M. Do you think he knew and lov'd God above all things S. Yes sure for knowing hee was not from himself but had receiv'd all from God hee could not chuse but love him above all things M. True and God dispos'd all things fit for this for having fram'd his body â—f red clay hee stood in a visible shape before him that when hee first look'd up the first thing he saw was Almighty God finishing the creation of all things in him so that his heart being rightly set for this purpose free from all other affections most passive by the daintiness of the mould as yet not mingled with any others it could not bee but that this sight should make a most deep apprehension which must needs carry the whole powers of the soul with it and totally subject it to Almighty God But do you think this wrought any thing in the Body S. I know not Sir M. Do you not finde that good news makes your body light and jocond have you not seen boys rid of the hiccock by an apprehension of fear nay some speak of those that have been freed from agues by fears or angers and does not in all this the soul work upon the body why then should you doubt but so strong
you M. You answer well for Seeing specially by our understanding is the pleasure of the Minde which must needs be greater than the pleasure of the Body since the body has pleasure by the minde and the minde is deaded by the body But the Understanding infinitly surpasses the body because as Philosophers say it sees at once all particulars as who knows this universall that all men do such a thing knows what Sense can never reach But bee your self judge do you remember that ever at the sight of a dish of meat or news of a play day you burst out in laughter S. No Sir M. But if you heard a quick jest could you contain your self S. Many times I could not although I bit my lip and us'd al means to restrain my self M. Then the pleasure of a jest being intellectuall of the others corporeall which kinde of pleasure is most strong and efficacious S. I doubt not but the pleasure of the minde is stronger M. Now of all sorts of knowledge that by which wee understand why a thing is so or what makes it so which Logicians call demonstratio à priori is that which gives greatest pleasure and content and the higher the Cause is the greater proportionably the pleasure is too Now God being so high a Cause that hee 's beyond al causes and considerd as hee is in himself a more sublime notion comprehending both to be Cause and Effect and that in so noble and transcendent a manner as al the rest put together are incomparably and infinitly short of Him what pleasure must wee imagin it to see Him as hee is in himself As for your dâ—fficulty note that you do not desire change or variety til you have a satiety of what you enjoy and have a time of rest and quiet in it so that you have perfectly known it and found it less than your desires Now seeing God is beyond not onely the capacity of our desires but of millions of millions better then us and is sufficient to satisfy and fill the boundless extent of his own immense will 't is not possible that who sees God should complain of want of Variety Besides if variety were desirable in him is alâ— that can be desir'd not onely because hee contains every thing but because in him may be discern'd the essences and reasons of every particular thing from the creation of the heav'ns to the division of the least grain of dust in the high way what they are all their particular conditions that they are and why they are so that nothing can be sought for which is not to be found in God S. Truly Sir I must confess this is a pleasure greater than eye hath seen or ear heard or heart can conceive Nevertheless me thinks we should have some content also of our friends in the next life M. You shal of all their good but especially every one shal have particular contentment of his own good actions above all of those great ones Martyrdome Teaching and Virginity also of the good of every saint and creature in the world and of the punishment of euery damned soul in hel and the joy shal be greater according to every lawfull cause of content that nature affords us as kindred acquaintance and the like But not to forget our comparison le ts see what the wicked shal have shal they enjoy their desires can you tell me first what their desires be S. Their desires were wealth Authority meat drink and carnall pleasures which sure are then past and cannot be enjoy'd M. You say wel and in case they do not enjoy them how wil they be contented with the want of them S. They must needs be extremely afflicted if they vehemently desire and cannot obtain them and you say'd that if by choice of reason they took them for absolutely good they must needs desire them M. Tell me then are they in pain or no S. In Grief sir I understand they are but I do not see how they can be in Pain M. True 't is wee ordinarily take pain for corporall grief whereas indeed 't is but grief inflicted by another onely because we see none grieve but such as might leave of if they would we think no grief pain But after this life when the wicked cannot chuse but grieve if you remember that all comes from Gods hand you will see that their grief is also pain But do you judge it equall to that pain which the Body feels S. I know the pains of hell are far the greater though I know not well why M. If pleasure come from the soul to the body must not grief do the like and if the body dull the edge of pleasure must it not necessarily dull that also If then pleasure of minde infinitely exceed pleasure of body must not the like be sayd of grief But when shall this grief have an end S. I know that neither heaven nor hel have end but I know not well the reason more then that it so befits God's goodness and justice M. You are of a short memorâ— did you not tel mee God could not chuse but give him bliss that lov'd him above all things and that who saw him being All-goodness it ielf could not but love him above all things S. Now I see that since neither the blessed can leave to love nor God to bless those who love him their happiness can have no end M. And do you think the wicked can lose the misery unless they change their mind from loving what they cannot obtain S. No Sir but I know not why they should not change their minds M. Can they change their minds unless they see some thing of new which they saw not before or leave seeing somewhat which they did see and know S. No certainly but methinks they can think of what they wil M. Is not their souls indivisible and it 's actions without motion and so whatever they go about as soon done as 't is doing you see then necessarily that al they can do is already done al perpetually present and they see at once al they can see wherefore they can never change their minds but are to be everlastingly miserable which God defend us from But is there think you no middle condition between thâ—se two and some in that condition S. Yes Sir there 's a third state of those that dy in venial sin who aae in Purgatory and thence go to Heaven M. You are wel taught For some being in such a state at their death as though they firmly think God their greatest good and are content to forgo al other goods for him nevertheless they love worldly things withal something irregularly so as they are loath to leave them These therefore cannot have perpetual bliss til such desires be taken off and like gold in the fiâ—e purifi'd from all