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cause_n church_n pope_n rome_n 4,587 5 6.8117 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A14828 A dialogue betwixt a secular priest, and a lay gentleman. Concerning some points objected by the Iesuiticall faction against such secular priests, as haue shewed their dislike of M. Blackwell and the Iesuits proceedings.. Mush, John.; Watson, William, 1559?-1603. 1601 (1601) STC 25124.5; ESTC S101830 96,830 158

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his_o good_a pleasure_n what_o he_o will_v have_v we_o to_o do_v and_o to_o bring_v we_o word_n thereof_o gent._n these_o be_v good_a cause_n of_o go_v to_o rome_n if_o these_o be_v all_o they_o deserve_v neither_o imprisonment_n nor_o banishment_n nor_o in_o any_o sort_n shall_v they_o have_v be_v hardly_o use_v or_o deny_v audience_n sure_o they_o have_v commit_v some_o other_o fault_n priest_n none_o at_o all_o sure_o fa._n parson_n fear_v lest_o if_o they_o shall_v have_v have_v free_a audience_n they_o will_v have_v detect_v his_o cunning_a deal_n with_o the_o pope_n in_o procure_v the_o new_a authority_n &_o with_o our_o church_n in_o impose_v it_o so_o violent_o upon_o our_o clergy_n and_o have_v final_o overthrow_v all_o his_o plot_n lay_v for_o oppress_v our_o priest_n &_o the_o advancement_n of_o his_o soietie_n in_o england_n for_o this_o cause_n have_v cardinal_n caiet_fw-mi ready_a to_o inform_v and_o effect_v whatsoever_o he_o will_v move_v he_o to_o he_o malicious_o inform_v the_o pope_n against_o our_o priest_n shut_v up_o all_o the_o way_n of_o audience_n and_o get_v they_o take_v and_o commit_v to_o close_a prison_n before_o ever_o they_o be_v hear_v &_o at_o the_o last_o banish_v gent._n they_o be_v bring_v before_o the_o cardinal_n caietane_n and_o another_o cardinal_n in_o the_o english_a college_n and_o then_o hear_v what_o they_o can_v say_v pr._n after_o seven_o week_n close_a imprisonment_n they_o be_v call_v before_o they_o indeed_o their_o examination_n take_v by_o fa._n p._n of_o many_o impertinent_a matter_n be_v read_v and_o after_o there_o be_v a_o shameful_a slanderous_a libel_n exhibit_v against_o they_o and_o read_v by_o m._n haddock_n and_o m._n array_n two_o english_a priest_n suborn_v by_o fa._n p._n and_o ready_a for_o whatsoever_o he_o will_v bid_v they_o do_v to_o serve_v his_o turn_n which_o yet_o our_o priest_n can_v not_o be_v permit_v to_o have_v a_o copy_n of_o nor_o to_o answer_v unto_o and_o for_o their_o main_a 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divine_a peccatum_fw-la schismatis_fw-la tendit_fw-la contra_fw-la unitatem_fw-la sive_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la sive_fw-la capitis_fw-la formaliter_fw-la the_o crime_n of_o schism_n tend_v against_o the_o unity_n either_o of_o the_o church_n or_o head_n formal_o that_o be_v as_o it_o be_v the_o church_n under_o that_o head_n or_o the_o head_n of_o that_o church_n and_o therefore_o if_o one_o doubt_v reasonable_o whether_o this_o particular_a person_n be_v the_o pope_n or_o no_o and_o thereupon_o do_v not_o acknowledge_v himful_o for_o the_o pope_n he_o incur_v not_o thereby_o the_o crime_n of_o schism_n no_o though_o he_o err_v in_o judgement_n because_o there_o want_v the_o formality_n of_o schism_n which_o be_v this_o to_o refuse_v he_o as_o he_o be_v undoubted_o the_o pope_n 27._o c._n 27._o and_o final_o the_o famous_a lawyer_n navarre_n schisma_fw-la peccatum_fw-la est_fw-la quo_fw-la quis_fw-la se_fw-la separate_v ab_fw-la unitate_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la nolendo_fw-la subesse_fw-la ei_fw-la vel_fw-la membris_fw-la eius_fw-la quatenus_fw-la sunt_fw-la eius_fw-la schism_n be_v a_o sin_n whereby_o one_o seperate_v himself_o from_o the_o unity_n of_o the_o church_n by_o refuse_v to_o be_v under_o it_o or_o the_o member_n thereof_o in_o regard_n they_o be_v the_o member_n thereof_o so_o that_o by_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o learned_a this_o be_v a_o undoubted_a verity_n that_o a_o man_n can_v be_v a_o schismatic_n unless_o he_o have_v a_o voluntary_a or_o intend_a rebellion_n against_o the_o pope_n and_o the_o church_n with_o this_o formality_n as_o he_o be_v the_o pope_n or_o head_n and_o the_o church_n a_o body_n or_o member_n under_o he_o that_o be_v in_o one_o word_n unless_o he_o refuse_v to_o acknowledge_v he_o for_o his_o head_n and_o to_o communicate_v with_o the_o member_n because_o they_o be_v under_o he_o perceive_v you_o this_o gent._n yea_o very_o well_o priest_n hereupon_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o we_o can_v not_o possible_o be_v schismatic_n 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in_o they_o so_o that_o it_o be_v nothing_o but_o your_o contentious_a spirit_n that_o move_v you_o without_o any_o cause_n to_o stir_v afresh_o in_o these_o matter_n for_o you_o can_v never_o be_v at_o rest_n because_o you_o be_v full_a of_o emulation_n and_o you_o can_v endure_v to_o obey_v your_o archpriest_n because_o you_o be_v ambitious_a and_o desirous_a of_o authority_n yourselves_o pr._n for_o our_o disobedience_n to_o the_o archpriest_n it_o be_v refute_v before_o i_o need_v to_o say_v no_o more_o of_o that_o calumny_n and_o touch_v the_o other_o that_o we_o be_v ambitious_a and_o will_v have_v the_o authority_n ourselves_o this_o be_v also_o a_o improbable_a devise_a slander_n by_o our_o adversary_n how_o know_v they_o that_o we_o be_v ambitious_a gent._n mary_n they_o say_v that_o m._n coll._n shall_v have_v be_v archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n and_o m._n much_o archbishop_n of_o york_n and_o the_o rest_n of_o you_o in_o like_a sort_n seek_v for_o other_o dignity_n priest_n 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if_o i_o be_v his_o mortal_a enemy_n i_o can_v not_o have_v wish_v he_o to_o have_v govern_v and_o behave_v himself_o in_o worse_a sort_n than_o he_o have_v do_v gent._n i_o have_v hear_v of_o little_a good_a or_o none_o that_o he_o have_v do_v since_o his_o first_o entrance_n into_o the_o office_n but_o sure_o i_o be_o our_o church_n be_v never_o so_o harm_v by_o contention_n and_o scandal_n as_o it_o have_v be_v in_o these_o three_o year_n of_o his_o government_n priest_n no_o marvel_v when_o he_o be_v whole_o lead_v by_o the_o jesuit_n the_o principal_a author_n and_o party_n in_o these_o dissension_n but_o now_o concern_v that_o they_o say_v our_o cause_n have_v be_v hear_v already_o &_o judge_v at_o rome_n against_o we_o and_o thereupon_o our_o two_o messenger_n punish_v and_o we_o all_o in_o they_o it_o be_v a_o manifest_a untruth_n as_o appear_v by_o m._n doctor_n bishop_n answer_v to_o fa._n parson_n letter_n and_o by_o the_o censure_n of_o the_o same_o letter_n all_o in_o 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deal_n fa._n par._n plot_v and_o devise_v their_o miserable_a banishment_n the_o one_o into_o paris_n the_o other_o into_o mussipont_n in_o lorraine_n it_o be_v fa._n p._n that_o in_o rome_n labour_v to_o discredit_v they_o and_o all_o our_o clergy_n by_o carry_v about_o and_o show_v their_o linen_n sock_n their_o handkerchife_n their_o nightcoyfe_n very_o mean_v in_o respect_n of_o such_o as_o himself_o and_o his_o jesuit_n have_v wear_v in_o england_n and_o their_o silk_n point_v of_o 12._o penny_n the_o dozen_o fa._n p._n dismiss_v one_o many_o day_n after_o the_o other_o least_o travel_v together_o they_o shall_v have_v too_o much_o comfort_n and_o help_v in_o so_o long_a a_o journey_n fa._n p._n send_v they_o away_o without_o viaticum_fw-la or_o any_o farthing_n of_o provision_n and_o allowance_n to_o live_v upon_o how_o long_o soever_o the_o time_n of_o their_o banishment_n shall_v last_v and_o yet_o fa._n p._n charitable_o provide_v that_o they_o shall_v not_o for_o any_o cause_n depart_v from_o those_o place_n without_o incur_v the_o great_a censure_n gent._n this_o man_n seem_v to_o have_v a_o violent_a or_o rather_o a_o cruel_a spirit_n priest_n he_o have_v so_o no_o doubt_n where_o he_o be_v offend_v and_o can_v execute_v his_o will_n gent._n why_o do_v these_o two_o priest_n go_v to_o rome_n priest_n first_o to_o know_v assure_o whether_o the_o archp._n authority_n be_v institute_v by_o his_o holiness_n for_o it_o be_v bring_v without_o any_o apostolical_a writ_n again_o to_o declare_v unto_o his_o ho._n the_o difficulty_n and_o inconueniency_n thereof_o and_o the_o harm_n probable_o like_a to_o ensue_v to_o our_o whole_a church_n unless_o it_o be_v alter_v again_o true_o to_o inform_v his_o ho._n of_o the_o state_n of_o our_o church_n in_o all_o thing_n and_o last_o to_o know_v
glorious_a commendation_n for_o it_o be_v well_o know_v that_o the_o most_o of_o they_o be_v poor_a man_n child_n and_o never_o have_v patrimony_n able_a to_o maintain_v themselves_o much_o less_o able_a to_o relieve_v the_o necessity_n of_o other_o gent._n i_o ever_o think_v it_o to_o be_v a_o fiction_n pr._n let_v this_o pass_n and_o consider_v by_o the_o premise_n whether_o we_o have_v not_o good_a cause_n to_o exclaim_v against_o the_o jesuit_n as_o for_o their_o report_n of_o our_o disobedience_n it_o be_v reprove_v before_o and_o for_o our_o unmortified_a passion_n i_o will_v not_o much_o stand_n with_o they_o but_o think_v that_o neither_o we_o nor_o they_o be_v not_o so_o mortify_v i_o as_o can_v wish_v now_o by_o this_o which_o we_o have_v already_o say_v it_o be_v apparent_a enough_o that_o they_o have_v but_o overmuch_o deal_v in_o the_o affair_n of_o our_o secular_a clergy_n and_o for_o their_o entermedle_v in_o state_n matter_n it_o be_v needless_a that_o any_o accuse_v 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they_o be_v send_v into_o the_o realm_n and_o yet_o in_o the_o counsel_n hand_n for_o a_o testimony_n against_o he_o touch_v invasion_n and_o solicit_v of_o man_n by_o these_o vain_a hope_n to_o be_v in_o a_o readiness_n against_o his_o day_n and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o dangerous_a folly_n beside_o but_o touch_v in_o few_o word_n some_o of_o his_o other_o action_n that_o you_o may_v see_v whether_o he_o deal_v in_o state_n matter_n or_o no._n do_v he_o not_o earnest_o move_v our_o young_a student_n in_o spain_n to_o set_v their_o hand_n to_o a_o schedule_n that_o they_o will_v accept_v the_o lady_n infanta_n for_o queen_n of_o england_n after_o the_o decease_n of_o her_o majesty_n that_o now_o be_v yea_o and_o find_v they_o altogether_o unwilling_a to_o intermeddle_v with_o those_o great_a affair_n belong_v nothing_o unto_o they_o and_o most_o hurtful_a to_o both_o their_o cause_n and_o person_n use_v he_o not_o this_o cunning_a shift_n to_o draw_v on_o the_o innocent_a and_o simple_a youth_n to_o pretend_v forsooth_o to_o they_o of_o valladolid_n that_o the_o student_n in_o seville_a have_v do_v it_o already_o no_o remedy_n then_o but_o they_o must_v follow_v and_o have_v thus_o crafty_o get_v their_o name_n he_o show_v they_o to_o the_o student_n of_o seville_a for_o a_o example_n of_o their_o fact_n and_o forwardness_n which_o he_o require_v they_o to_o imitate_v that_o will_v be_v well_o take_v that_o they_o all_o do_v thus_o show_v themselves_o desirous_a of_o the_o l._n infanta_n for_o their_o queen_n some_o more_o stout_a and_o better_o experience_v than_o the_o rest_n withstand_v the_o dangerous_a attempt_n and_o will_v not_o yield_v but_o they_o feel_v fa._n p._n heavy_a hand_n upon_o they_o ever_o after_o be_v it_o not_o his_o usual_a persuasion_n to_o our_o student_n when_o he_o will_v have_v they_o to_o concur_v with_o he_o in_o matter_n of_o state_n that_o by_o the_o law_n of_o england_n they_o be_v already_o traitor_n for_o their_o religion_n 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each_o against_o other_o in_o spain_n about_o dispose_v of_o the_o kingdom_n and_o crown_n of_o england_n fa._n par._n strive_v to_o bring_v all_o to_o the_o lady_n infanta_n and_o fa._n creighton_n to_o his_o king_n of_o scotland_n in_o which_o controversy_n fa._n parson_n prevail_v in_o that_o place_n and_o frustrate_v and_o defeat_v all_o the_o desire_n &_o plot_n which_o his_o brother_n jesuit_n have_v lay_v in_o his_o suit_n be_v they_o not_o jesuit_n which_o lay_v the_o plot_n with_o the_o late_a decease_a duke_n of_o parma_n for_o surprise_v or_o steal_v away_o the_o lady_n arbella_n and_o send_v she_o into_o flaunders_n who_o employ_v the_o messenger_n into_o england_n about_o that_o affair_n but_o fa._n holt_n jesuit_n who_o but_o the_o same_o jesuit_n be_v consent_v with_o sir_n william_n stanley_n to_o the_o send_n in_o of_o richard_n hesket_n for_o solicit_v ferdinando_n the_o late_a earl_n of_o derby_n to_o rise_v against_o her_o majesty_n and_o to_o claim_v the_o crown_n 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then_o these_o offer_n priest_n yea_o true_o neither_o can_v they_o deny_v it_o gent._n what_o answer_n do_v they_o return_v to_o this_o priest_n marry_o they_o reject_v they_o with_o much_o disdain_n and_o answer_v that_o we_o shall_v absolute_o subscribe_v to_o the_o authority_n without_o any_o condition_n at_o all_o or_o further_a delay_n or_o else_o we_o shall_v have_v the_o censure_n of_o the_o church_n lay_v upon_o we_o for_o our_o refusal_n and_o the_o word_n be_v confirm_v by_o the_o effect_n for_o present_o after_o the_o archp._n without_o scruple_n or_o blush_v to_o execute_v any_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n while_o his_o authority_n as_o yet_o not_o confirm_v by_o his_o ho._n stand_v doubtful_a solemn_o in_o write_v with_o compliment_n of_o a_o new_a seal_n and_o all_o his_o title_n suspend_v m._n coll._n m._n heb._n and_o m._n mu._n gent._n it_o be_v possible_a these_o man_n shall_v thus_o foul_o forget_v their_o profession_n and_o the_o rule_n of_o moral_a honesty_n for_o 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from_o the_o pope_n we_o speak_v not_o now_o of_o matter_n of_o faith_n or_o manner_n general_o propound_v and_o command_v by_o his_o ho._n to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o church_n before_o it_o be_v see_v and_o approve_v by_o man_n appoint_v for_o that_o purpose_n as_o well_o to_o have_v be_v right_o obtain_v and_o to_o be_v authentical_a as_o to_o be_v without_o injury_n or_o prejudice_n to_o any_o c._n variar_n resol_fw-it c._n this_o be_v observe_v to_o let_v go_v the_o rest_n in_o france_n and_o spain_n as_o covarrwias_n note_v in_o his_o book_n gent._n i_o think_v it_o be_v very_o necessary_a it_o shall_v so_o be_v for_o otherwise_o one_o bad_o dispose_v man_n may_v by_o collusion_n and_o wrong_a information_n obtain_v that_o of_o the_o see_v apostolic_a which_o will_v disturb_v and_o annoy_v a_o whole_a nation_n priest_n in_o such_o case_n their_o law_n be_v not_o think_v unlawful_a nor_o they_o which_o make_v or_o execute_v they_o any_o way_n rebellious_a or_o disobedient_a 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all_o man_n to_o believe_v they_o &_o to_o condemn_v you_o priest_n so_o it_o be_v indeed_o but_o yet_o if_o a_o angel_n shall_v proclaim_v a_o true_a man_n to_o be_v a_o thief_n and_o upon_o the_o angel_n word_n all_o man_n shall_v believe_v he_o so_o to_o be_v the_o just_a man_n be_v no_o thief_n for_o all_o the_o multitude_n of_o believer_n &_o the_o angel_n proclamation_n be_v no_o less_o than_o a_o untrue_a slander_n and_o infamy_n the_o like_a be_v in_o our_o case_n yet_o with_o this_o notable_a disparity_n that_o the_o inventor_n and_o setter_n abroad_o and_o defender_n of_o this_o infamy_n against_o we_o be_v but_o jesuit_n and_o a_o archpriest_n which_o we_o know_v to_o be_v no_o angel_n but_o to_o conclude_v this_o part_n our_o appeal_n at_o that_o time_n and_o our_o send_n to_o rome_n to_o know_v his_o ho._n his_o good_a pleasure_n least_o in_o any_o thing_n we_o may_v offend_v through_o ignorance_n in_o these_o uncertainty_n manifest_o show_v we_o to_o have_v be_v free_a from_o all_o spot_n of_o schism_n and_o disobedience_n to_o the_o see_v apostolic_a for_o schismatickes_n not_o acknowledge_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v their_o head_n make_v no_o recourse_n nor_o refuge_n to_o he_o as_o to_o their_o superior_a and_o rebellious_a and_o disobedient_a person_n to_o the_o pope_n seek_v not_o with_o so_o great_a pain_n and_o charge_n as_o we_o do_v to_o know_v his_o will_n that_o they_o may_v conform_v themselves_o thereunto_o wherefore_o this_o part_n of_o their_o report_n deserve_v no_o better_a name_n nor_o place_n than_o the_o title_n &_o predicament_n of_o a_o untrue_a slander_n now_o if_o yet_o you_o rest_v unsatisfied_a with_o this_o that_o i_o have_v say_v touch_v schism_n and_o disobedience_n i_o refer_v you_o to_o our_o reason_n and_o to_o the_o letter_n which_o master_n champney_n write_v to_o his_o friend_n concern_v this_o matter_n
and_o disobedient_a to_o god_n the_o author_n of_o nature_n law_n and_o to_o the_o constitution_n of_o holy_a church_n pr._n it_o be_v so_o indeed_o but_o yet_o the_o very_a word_n and_o sin_n of_o disobedience_n impute_v to_o we_o by_o man_n of_o their_o call_n enter_v far_o and_o even_o at_o the_o first_o hear_n take_v deep_a root_n in_o the_o heart_n of_o the_o most_o virtuous_o dispose_v move_v they_o to_o great_a aversion_n and_o zealous_a invective_n against_o we_o albeit_o they_o know_v little_a or_o nothing_o how_o the_o case_n stand_v and_o our_o adversary_n play_v upon_o this_o advantage_n to_o stir_v up_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n against_o we_o for_o who_o be_v he_o that_o will_v not_o utter_o mislike_v a_o disobedient_a priest_n gent._n disobedience_n true_o be_v a_o foul_a crime_n discommendable_a and_o very_o odious_a in_o a_o catholic_a priest_n if_o he_o be_v infect_v therewith_o and_o this_o almost_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o all_o person_n as_o well_o bad_a as_o good_a 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thing_n the_o which_o yet_o exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o his_o authority_n a_o man_n be_v no_o way_n bind_v to_o obey_v and_o his_o refusal_n can_v just_o be_v call_v disobedience_n for_o otherwise_o i_o know_v not_o how_o our_o refusal_n to_o obey_v our_o temporal_a princess_n commandment_n for_o go_v to_o church_n and_o for_o practice_v of_o our_o religion_n or_o any_o other_o magistrate_n injust_a commandment_n may_v be_v excuse_v or_o defend_v from_o the_o crime_n of_o disobedience_n and_o rebellion_n in_o the_o jesuit_n and_o archpriest_n themselves_o pr._n if_o man_n have_v consider_v and_o observe_v this_o we_o have_v not_o be_v slander_v nor_o general_o condemn_v for_o disobedient_a person_n as_o we_o be_v for_o refuse_v to_o obey_v the_o archpriest_n in_o his_o decree_n some_o of_o which_o be_v against_o the_o law_n of_o god_n and_o nature_n &_o other_o against_o the_o law_n and_o liberty_n of_o holy_a church_n as_o i_o say_v before_o but_o the_o author_n of_o these_o infamy_n and_o the_o leader_n of_o this_o ungracious_a dance_n to_o the_o heady_a and_o ignorant_a laity_n maius_n peccatum_fw-la habent_fw-la have_v the_o great_a sin_n gent._n i_o will_v not_o judge_v these_o man_n to_o have_v any_o spice_n of_o that_o disease_n which_o our_o saviour_n note_v to_o be_v in_o some_o man_n that_o can_v spy_v a_o mote_n in_o their_o neighbour_n eye_n but_o not_o discern_v a_o beam_n in_o their_o own_o or_o that_o in_o censure_v other_o man_n action_n can_v excolare_fw-la culicem_fw-la make_v bone_n of_o a_o gnat_n &_o camclum_n deglutire_fw-la and_o in_o their_o own_o case_n easy_o swallow_v up_o a_o camel_n i_o will_v not_o condemn_v they_o for_o such_o i_o say_v but_o i_o remember_v that_o once_o a_o jesuit_n tell_v i_o how_o the_o pope_n upon_o some_o great_a cause_n &_o consideration_n doubtless_o send_v a_o precept_n or_o a_o decree_n to_o the_o religious_a house_n in_o rome_n thereby_o prohibit_v under_o great_a penalty_n that_o any_o shall_v use_v the_o 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heretical_a or_o a_o evil_a prince_n what_o can_v they_o say_v to_o the_o bishop_n and_o pastor_n in_o the_o low_a country_n and_o the_o university_n of_o douai_n who_o they_o reckon_v to_o be_v their_o adversary_n by_o reason_n of_o the_o great_a contention_n have_v between_o they_o about_o eight_o year_n ago_o what_o to_o the_o university_n of_o louvain_n with_o who_o they_o have_v have_v bicker_n since_o what_o to_o the_o whole_a order_n of_o dominican_n let_v pass_n other_o religious_a between_o who_o and_o they_o there_o have_v be_v of_o long_a as_o be_v continual_a bitter_a strife_n in_o spain_n as_o all_o the_o world_n know_v and_o all_o these_o include_v in_o fa._n parson_n ugly_a beadroll_n if_o all_o these_o be_v of_o bad_a disposition_n and_o graceless_a because_o they_o be_v the_o jesuit_n adversary_n then_o have_v we_o also_o good_a cause_n to_o dread_v but_o if_o contrariwise_o these_o be_v report_v to_o be_v their_o adversary_n and_o be_v indeed_o no_o less_o than_o we_o 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