his good pleasure what he would haue vs to do and to bring vs word thereof Gent. These were good causes of going to Rome if these were all they deserued neither imprisonment nor banishment nor in any sort should they haue beene hardly vsed or denied audience Surely they had committed some other fault Priest None at all surely Fa. Parson feared least if they should haue had free audience they would haue detected his cunning dealing with the Pope in procuring the new authoritie with our Church in imposing it so violently vpon our Cleargie and haue finally ouerthrowne all his plots laid for oppressing our priests the aduancement of his soietie in England For this cause hauing Cardinall Caiet readie to enforme and effect whatsoeuer hee would mooue him to he maliciously informed the Pope against our priests shut vp all the wayes of audience and got them taken and committed to close prison before euer they were heard at the last banished Gent. They were brought before the Cardinall Caietane and another Cardinall in the English Colledge and then heard what they could say Pr. After seuen weekes close imprisonment they were called before them indeed their examinations taken by Fa. P. of many impertinent matters were read and after there was a shamefull slaunderous libell exhibited against them and read by M. Haddocke and M. Aray two English priests suborned by Fa. P. and readie for whatsoeuer he would bid them doe to serue his turne which yet our priests could not bee permitted to haue a copie of nor to aunswere vnto And for their maine businesse it was nothing at all to the purpose spoken of Gent. VVhy did not your priests deliuer their businesses to the Cardinals at that time Priest Because they were not called forth for that end but as malefactors to answere to whatsoeuer Fa. Par. had deuised against them And they saw neither time nor place fit to deliuer it where the iniquitie of Fa. P. so much preuailed and all justice and indifferencie was abandoned especially they perceiuing Fa. Parsons without discontenting Cardinall Caietane by so doing disposed to deride and make to seeme contemptible both the men and whatsoeuer they said in any thing that crossed his humour They asked the Cardinall if hee condemned their comming to the See Apostolicke about the affaires of their Church He said no it was lawfull VVhy then are we thus punished said they Not for your comming but because you haue thereby and by your contentions scandalized many in England And in the sentence of the Cardinals the crimes for which they were banished are specified to be neither schisme nor rebellion nor enormious disobedience to the Pope or Arch-priest but because they had had contentions in England with men of their owne order whether justly or injustly they had these contentions it is not declared that so vntrue a calumnie might goe more currant in those doubtfull speeches whereas no bad or vnjust dealings of theirs in Englād could be proued against them before those Cardinals but all matters were shuffled vp and done just as Fa. P. would haue them Gent. VVhereby it seemeth that this controuersie of yours was neuer at that time discussed or mentioned at all in Rome Pr. They there neuer had it in question or speech whether we were schismaticks or rebellious or enormiously disobedient for our bearing off to accept the authoritie before the comming of the Breue And therefore you may see by this what little truth is in the Iesuits words when they affirme that our cause was heard and sentence giuen against vs in Rome Gent. VVhy haue they tampered so much in these matters against you Pr. Oh they be Iesuits they must be stirring and the true causes are these They would not be subordinat in any manner to ordinary prelats in England as to Bishops Suffraganes c. but beare themselues the greatest sway in the gouernment of our Church and disposing of all things To exclude therefore all ordinarie prelates which were to bee chosen by voices and common consent of our cleargie they preuented vs secretly by getting an Archp. to rule ouer all except themselues This authoritie was of their owne deuising the man preferred thereto of their own election in whose gouernment also and actions they prouided that themselues should haue a principall stroke that forsooth in euery matter of importance the Archp. should haue the aduise and direction of the head Iesuit in England Thus their wils should be fulfilled without checke in all they listed to attempt or desire Now after they had by false suggestion by many wayes procured this new authoritie and brought vs all into their bondage it behooued them to hold it by violence and strong hand which they had contriued by such cunning for their owne particular without respect of conscience or charitie The end I told you of admaiorem dei gloriam which is cheefely by the aduancement of their societie salueth all odde dealings Gent. It were more time that wee proceeded to some other matter for I should vnderstand this more by reading the censure and letter you spoke of Pr. Let vs so doe what is the next The fourth Slaunder Gent. The report is all ouer That you bee aduersaries or enemies to the Iesuits which are known to be religious men of singular vertue and perfection and to whome aboue all men our nation is most bound and many things are said of your hard dealing against them Pr. I pray you let vs heare all and I shall satisfie you in euery point as well as I can Gent. I shall speake all as it commeth to my remembrance Priest Doe so but for this you haue said what ground haue they to proue vs their enemies or in what are wee their enemies say they I know some haue said and written That wee are enemies to their religious perfection Gent. I also haue heard the same of their dearest fauourites Priest This is a rash and vncharitable calumnie For no man can be an enemy to religious perfection but thereby he falleth from Gods grace For albeit no man out of vow be bound vnder mortall sinne to obserue the Euangelicall counsels yet can no Christian hate the obseruers of them or become their enemie for that respect but hee offendeth mortally thereby If therefore it be certaine that we be their enemies it is no lesse certain that the cause is not any part of religious perfection to be noted in them for otherwise should we be enemies also to the religious men of other orders as to Dominicans Franciscans Benedictines Carthusians and the rest in all the which no man except a Iesuit will denie as much religious perfection to bee found as is among the Iesuits yea we should be more enemies to all them than to Iesuits if this were the cause that mooueth vs in this case For all these haue the essentiall vows of pouertie chastitie and obedience as well as Iesuits and it is to bee supposed that they obserue
Divine Peccatum Schismatis tendit contra vnitatem siue Ecclesiae siue Capitis formaliter The crime of Schisme tendeth against the vnitie either of the church or head formally that is as it is the church vnder that head or the head of that church And therefore if one doubt reasonably whether this particular person be the Pope or no and thereupon do not acknowledge himfully for the Pope hee incurreth not thereby the crime of Schisme no though he erre in iudgement because there wanteth the formalitie of Schisme which is this to refuse him as hee is vndoubtedly the Pope C. 27. And finally the famous Lawyer Nauar Schisma peccatum est quo quis se seperat ab vnitate Ecclesiae nolendo subesse ei vel membris eius quatenus sunt eius Schisme is a sinne whereby one seperateth himselfe from the vnitie of the Church by refusing to be vnder it or the members thereof in regard they are the members thereof So that by the iudgement of all the learned this is an vndoubted veritie That a man cannot be a schismaticke vnlesse hee haue a voluntary or entended rebellion against the Pope and the Church with this formalitie as hee is the Pope or head and the church a body or members vnder him that is in one word vnlesse he refuse to acknowledg him for his head and to communicat with the members because they be vnder him perceiue you this Gent. Yea very well Priest Hereupon it is manifest that we could not possibly be Scismaticks by our delay Gent. I see no such consequence Priest Doe you not you know that our delay to accept of the authoritie and to submit our selues to the Archpr. was not because we denied the Pope to be Pope and our head nor that we refused to obey him as our head nor for that wee would not admit the authoritie and Man said to be instituted by him formally because they were sayd to be instituted by him Vpon these respects and formalities we delaied not and yet without these we could not possibly be Schismaticks But the whole controuersie stood in this That the authoritie was inconuenient for our Church and that it was doubtful VVhether in truth the authoritie was instituted by the Pope or not This was vncertaine I say the Iesuits and Archpriest on the one side had no Bull no Breue no Apostolick letters no authenticall Instrument as is vsuall in all matters both of great lesser moment proceeding from that See and which in graunts of extraordinarie Iurisdiction and Prelacie is absolutely necessarie before any bee bound in conscience to obey them they had no such thing to shewe for proofe of that they claimed and would violently inforce vpon vs as his Ho. fact and wee on the other side partly for want of this Apostolicke VVrit and Testimonie partly vpon other great reasons had good cause to doubt that his Hol. was not acquainted with it yea the particulars of the authoritie implied in them so many and so great inconueniences that we thought it needfull to delay the acceptance thereof till his Ho. should haue better information of our Churches estate and thereupon either recall the authoritie if it were his deed or in time reforme and change it into some other more commodious to our afflicted Church So that their propounding or promulgating this authoritie being insufficient no way binding vs in conscience we bare off to receiue it because it was vncertaine and very likely not to haue bene instituted by the Pope The inconueniences also which it brought with it were no little cause of our delay and we bare not off because we refused to be subject to the Pope as Pope or head of Christs Church or to this or any superioritie he should ordaine ouer us as our supreme Pastor which yet wee must haue done before we had incurred the crime of Schisme Perceiue you now how the case standeth and how farre off we were from being Schismaticks Gent. Very well Pr. Nay further we were so free from that crime and all the least disobedience to the See Apostolicke in that delay of ours and of this neither the Iesuits nor Archpr. could be ignorant for they were priuie to our whole course and actions in that matter and they had also our owne word and hand-writing for submission in al things which were certainly notified vnto vs to be his Ho. his deed that for men of their profession learning modestie and experience to condemne vs yea in the secrecic of their owne conscience to be guiltie of schisme or the least disobedience cannot bee defended by any reason from the grieuous sinne of temeritie and rash judgment But for them by their toungs penns and practise to display and cast abroad in the world the turpitude of this infamie for crimes faigned against vs by themselues and neuer once committed in thought by vs and this also before the Church had examined and censured our case this this fact of the Iesuits Archpriest as it cannot possibly bee excused nor escape the note of vncharitable audacitie extreame crueltie in them so of necessitie must it bring woonder to all posteritie and be horrible in the sight of all honest men VVhen they vrged the admittance of the authoritie with so many threats and in so violent a manner as they did all that yeare before the comming of the Popes Breue we alwaies told them this and we deliuered it them in writing First that we admitted of whatsouer the Pope had done already or would doe in time to come in our Church Againe that wee would presently and without delay receiue the new authoritie and submit our selues vnto the Archpriest if they could shew vnto vs the Popes letters and certainely make it knowne by any Apostolicall writ or authenticall instrument that the authoritie was instituted by him Thirdly we would in fact also doe the same without the shew of any Apostolicall letter if the Archp. and two of the Iesuits would sweare vnto vs and avow it vpon their priesthood that this authority was ordained ouer vs by the Pope or that his Ho. was acquainted with euery particular thereof Againe if they refused all these wee offered further presently to obey the authoritie vpon condition they would agree with vs to send one or two of either side to Rome which might informe his Ho. of the state of all and bring vs certaine word what his will was we should doe in every thing These proceedings and offers of ours will for euer yeeld a firm and irrefragable testimonie of our sinceritie priest-like comportment and innocencie in this cause moreouer protect and keepe safe our good names from the slaunders of our aduersaries in all degrees of schisme or disobedience wherewith their ill affected minds by many sleightie shifts and deceitfull pretences so earnestly labour to staine them and to bereaue vs of our credite a treasure without which we desire not to liue on earth Gent. Made you
in them So that it is nothing but your contentious spirits that moue you without any cause to stirre afresh in these matters for you can neuer be at rest because you are full of emulation and you cannot endure to obey your Archpriest because you are ambitious and desirous of authoritie your selues Pr. For our disobedience to the Arch-priest it is refuted before I need to say no more of that calumnie And touching the other That we are ambitious and would haue the authoritie our selues this is also an improbable deuised slaunder by our aduersaries How know they that we are ambitious Gent. Mary they say that M. Coll. should haue been Archbishop of Canterburie and M. Mush Archbishop of Yorke and the rest of you in like sort sought for other dignities Priest These truly be no other than malignant fictions of our aduersaries which respect not how they do it so they may detract vs and make vs more odious among priests and Catholickes in our nation But this onely reason quite confoundeth them That none of them is able to charge any of vs in particular with any such attempt that by word or deed we euer went about our owne preferment For in all things concerning these matters of procuring bishops or suffraganes or other prelates for gouerning our church after the death of Cardinall Allen when very scandalous contentions grew betweene the Iesuits and some seminarie priests at VVisbich our aduersaries cannot say that we went about it secretly did any thing or intended to do but by the general consents and concurrance of all our brethren priests and Iesuits referring all as well for the kind of gouernement as for the men to be preferred to the voices good liking and choise of euery one And onely wee propounded to our brethren what we judged fittest desiring euery one to giue their consent and opinion also that whatsoeuer should bee propounded to his Holinesse might be as from vs all or the most This being true as our aduersaries cannot denie it to bee what a wilfull peruersitie is it in them to charge vs with ambition and this the rather for that they are not ignorant how vnlikely it was that these whome they most note with this slaunder should bee chosen to these roomes if the election should haue passed by free voice generall consent of our whole cleargie For emulation it is a friuolous toy for admit any of vs were of that ambitious humour they report vs to bee yet is there no such good or pleasure in the Archp. his authoritie as any of vs should emulate him for it or desire to haue it from him neither since the beginning hath his carriage been in that office so commendable for discretion sinceritie vpright dealing among his bretheren moderation prudence compassion and other vertues requisit to bee in a superior especially in this afflicted state of ours that he hath giuen any man occasion to enuie his credit or couet the glorie of his actions But many he hath stirred vp to mislike him and his gouernment and to lament the wofull state of our Church mannaged by so vnfit a man For surely if I were deuoid of grace and if I were his mortall enemie I could not haue wished him to haue gouerned and behaued himselfe in worse sort than he hath done Gent. I haue heard of little good or none that he hath done since his first enterance into the office but sure I am our Church was neuer so harmed by contentions and scandals as it hath beene in these three yeares of his gouernment Priest No marueile when hee is wholly led by the Iesuits the principall authors and parties in these dissentions But now concerning that they say our cause hath been heard alreadie judged at Rome against vs and thereupon our two messengers punished and we all in them it is a manifest vntruth as appeareth by M. Doctor Bishops answere to Fa. Parsons letter and by the censure of the same letter all in print for by Fa. Parsons wicked false information our two priests could neuer haue accesse to his Ho. nor audience but were shortly after their arriuall apprehended as notable malefactors shut vp seuerally in very close prison vnder Fa Par. custodie Fa. P. was the misinformer to his Ho. Fa. P. was the guide to the officers that apprehended them Fa. P. was their jaylor their examiner the appointer of his brother Iesuit to bee the scribe notarie Fa. P. was the framer of libels against them the procurer instructer of two English priests his deputies to preferre his libels against them Fa. P. was the inuentor whisperer and soother of all bad matters which might bring them in hatred the disposer of the time and maner of their audience before two Cardinals seuen weekes after their taking the contriuer and moderator in all those actions the ransacker of all their writings and stuffe Fa. P. would neuer permit them to conferre together nor the one to see the other till they appeared before the Cardinall Fa. P. prohibited them to haue a copie of the slaunderous libels which hee had caused to bee read in the Cardinals presence for their disgrace or to answer to them Fa. P. depriued them of all aduise and helpes of learned counsell Fa. P. shut thē vp again for other seuen or eight weekes more vntil he had procured the Popes Breue for confirmation of the authority which himselfe had by collusion obtained a yeare before And after least they should returne to England and tell tales of his crueltie and corrupt dealings Fa. Par. plotted and deuised their miserable banishment the one into Paris the other into Mussipont in Lorraine It was Fa. P. that in Rome laboured to discredit them and all our Cleargie by carrying about and shewing their linnen sockes their handkerchifes their nightcoyfes very meane in respect of such as himselfe and his Iesuits haue worne in England and their silke points of 12. pence the dozen Fa. P. dismissed one many daies after the other least trauelling together they should haue too much comfort and helpe in so long a journey Fa. P. sent them away without viaticum or any farthing of prouision and allowance to liue vpon how long soeuer the time of their banishment should last and yet Fa. P. charitably prouided that they should not for any cause depart from those places without incurring the greatest censures Gent. This man seemeth to haue a violent or rather a cruell spirit Priest He hath so no doubt where he is offended and can execute his will Gent. VVhy did these two Priests goe to Rome Priest First to know assuredly whether the Archp. authoritie was instituted by his Holinesse for it was brought without any Apostolicall writ Againe to declare vnto his Ho. the difficulties and inconueniencies thereof and the harmes probably like to ensue to our whole Church vnlesse it were altred Againe truely to enforme his Ho. of the state of our Church in all things and lastly to know
glorious commendation For it is well knowne that the most of them are poore mens children and neuer had patrimonie able to maintaine themselues much lesse able to relieue the necessities of others Gent. I euer thought it to be a fiction Pr. Let this passe and consider by the premisses whether we haue not good cause to exclaime against the Iesuits As for their report of our disobedience it is reproued before and for our vnmortified passions I will not much stand with them but thinke that neither ours nor theirs are not so mortified I as could wish Now by this which we haue alreadie said it is apparent ynough that they haue but ouermuch dealing in the affaires of our secular Cleargie and for their entermedling in state matters it is needlesse that any accuse them or go about to proue it seeing their owne publicke actions giue assured testimonie against them If they would denie it Fa. P. owne handie worke is extant the booke of succession wherein vnder the counterfeit name of Robert Doleman hee rippeth vp the titles of all competitors to the crowne of England disgraceth and weakeneth in what hee may the claimes of some extolleth and highly aduaunceth others renuing the mortall dissentions betweene the families of Yorke and Lancaster laying perillous grounds for most cruell workes and bloudshead in time to come and drawing all to some particular person whome hee affecteth aboue the rest VVe will not speake of his bitter and disgracefull libels against the deceased L. Treasurer and L. of Leicester nor of his letters and Fa. Creswels intercepted as they were sent into the realme and yet in the Counsels hands for a testimony against him touching inuasions and solliciting of men by these vaine hopes to be in a readinesse against his day and I know not what daungerous follies besides But touch in few words some of his other actions that you may see whether he deale in state matters or no. Did hee not earnestly moue our young students in Spaine to set their hands to a schedule that they would accept the Ladie Infanta for Queen of England after the decease of her Majestie that now is yea and finding them altogether vnwilling to intermeddle with those greatest affaires belonging nothing vnto them and most hurtfull to both their cause and persons vsed he not this cunning shift to draw on the innocent and simple youths to pretend forsooth to them of Valladolid that the students in Seuill had done it already no remedie then but they must follow and hauing thus craftily gotten their names hee shewed them to the students of Seuill for an example of their fact and forwardnesse which he required them to imitate that would bee well taken that they all did thus shew themselues desirous of the L. Infanta for their Queen Some more stout and better experienced than the rest withstood the daungerous attempts and would not yeeld but they felt Fa. P. heauy hand vpon them euer after VVas it not his vsuall persuasion to our students when he would haue them to concurre with him in matters of state That by the laws of England they were alreadie traitors for their religion then for tampering with him about any other the greatest affaires they could be no more Goe to then beeing once ouer shoes be ouer boots also step in as farre as you can and spare not VVhen hee had printed his booke of Succession and was come to Rome would hee not haue it publickely read in the Refectorie at such times as the students minds customarily were fed with spirituall lectures VVhich vaine-glorious and prophane desire when some of the schollers resisted because they thought it very inconuenient and hurtfull vnto them to be acquainted with his plots in princes titles and affaires the good Fa. was exceeding wroth with them and they could neuer after haue his fauourable countenance VVas it not Fa. Pa. and Fa. Creighton Iesuits that with such vehemencie bitternesse contended each against other in Spain about disposing of the kingdome and crown of England Fa. Par. striuing to bring all to the Ladie Infanta and Fa. Creighton to his king of Scotland in which controuersie Fa. Parsons preuailed in that place and frustrated and defeated all the desires plots which his brother Iesuit had laied in his suits VVere they not Iesuits which laied the plot with the late deceased duke of Parma for surprising or stealing away the Ladie Arbella and sending her into Flaunders VVho employed the messenger into England about that affaire but Fa. Holt Iesuit VVho but the same Iesuit was consenting with Sir William Stanley to the sending in of Richard Hesket for solliciting Ferdinando the late Earle of Darbie to rise against her Majestie and to claime the crowne VVas it not the same Iesuit that entertained Yorke and Yong in the plot of firing her Majesties store-houses That set on worke M. Francis Dickonson and others to persuade watermen to flie with ships and all into the seruice of the Spaniard VVho but Iesuits feed the world dayly with fresh newes expectation of warres alteration of the State by forrainers But what is this peculiar only to our English Iesuits or haue not the Scottish fathers also in like manner bestirred themselues in that kingdome VVhereupon were the three Catholicke Earls Anguis Arroll and Huntley conuicted of high treason by acte of Parlement about eight yeares agoe to the confiscation of their liuelihoods and their expulsion out of the kingdome if not vpon certaine plots layde them by father Creighton father Gordon and vpon hopes giuen them of succours from Spaine VVhy was the lard of Fentry executed but by reason of the same designs imparted to him by Fa. R◠Abercromie a Iesuit was it not the principall cause of father Iam. Gordions trauaile to Rome about eyght yeares ago to sollicit the Pope and other princes to assist the king of Scots if hee would enterprise any thing either against England or in his own country in which simple and indiscreet action of his hee both deceiued the Pope pretēding great matters to be in hand which were not was the quite ouerthrower of those three earls in their present estates These politicke courses and this busie and dangerous entermedling by the Scottish Iesuits in Scotland grew odious euen to the best there and ruinated thereby the good estates of many without hope of reaping benefit in any time to come And yet forsooth the Iesuits are falsly slaundered when they are sayd to deale in state matters I know there be some of them which mislike these courses and either through their owne vertuous disposition or for respect of their owne quiet safetie or disabilitie or finally for their studie or a religious life shun in what they can al this kind of profane intermedling yet the vertuous and temperat demeanour of these can no more justifie nor excuse the dangerous stickling of their fellowes than the presumptions of these busie heads can blemish or deface their vertuous
then these offers Priest Yea truly neither can they denie it Gent. VVhat answere did they returne to this Priest Marry they rejected them with much disdaine and answered that we should absolutely subscribe to the authoritie without any conditions at all or further delay or else we should haue the censures of the Church laid vpon vs for our refusall and the word was confirmed by the effect for presently after the Archp. without scruple or blushing to execute any act of jurisdiction whiles his authoritie as yet not confirmed by his Ho. stood doubtfull solemnely in writing with complements of a new seale and all his titles suspended M. Coll. M. Heb. and M. Mu. Gent. It is possible these men should thus foulely forget their profession and the rules of morall honestie for it seemeth if this relation be true that their principall drift and endeuour was to harme and discredite you without respect of your good or ill deseruing Priest For my relation our aduersaries themselues cannot denie it to be very true For the articles were written and deliuered them and tossed in the hands of all Catholickes about London they and their adherents condemning them wee and ours defending them to be just and indifferent Touching their disposition in this doing I shall need to say no more but this It had more be seemed religious men not vnwilling perhaps to bee esteemed singular among others for good zeale charitie mortification and wisedome and it had more graced an Archp. newly chosen to be a Superior a Father and a Patterne of vertues to vs all suppose his authority had been confirmed firmed by the Pope to haue had patience with vs a while and to haue expected the censure and judgement of his Ho. to whom only it belongeth to decide the controuersie before they had disgraced and defamed vs for schismaticks and rebels against the See-Apostolick throughout the realm and many parts of Christendome also And this I say they should haue done for preuenting scandal in case we had vndoubtedly been guiltie of those crimes and that our fault could not haue been couered by any handsome excuse or diminished by some fauourable interpretation But for them to faigne and forge these crimes against vs for them to be the first authors and divulgers of these horrible infamies which wee neuer deserued in the least sort that a sincere mind can deuise for them to be the cheefest authors in the practise of their owne erronious paradox and this also before the Church had heard our cause and condemned vs as I said even now I cannot perceiue how this could become them or how it may bee justified by any meanes it arguing a spirit as farre differing from charitie and discretion as vices are opposit vnto vertues They are not ignorant neither which greatly augmenteth their fault and cleareth vs from all disobedience that it is an vsuall thing observed in all the particular churches and countries of Christendome and by the light of naturall reason thoght necessary for the good gouernment of Gods people that when any grace benefite office or dignitie is granted by the people to any man or when any authoritie is instituted by him which either was obtained by surreption and wrong information or containeth in it things prejudiciall and inconuenient to their church and people the Pastors Cleargie and people doe deferre the admittance thereof vntill they haue better informed his Ho. of all matters and none thinke themselues bound in such a case to receiue it though it should come as instituted and confirmed by his Hol. authenticall Breues or Buls before he had vnderstood their difficulties and the reasons of their fact Gent. Did they not know this to be vsuall in Catholicke Churches Priest Yea and more than this for they knew that many princes in Christendome haue made lawes and decreed that nothing shall be admitted or put in execution within their States that commeth from the Pope we speake not now of matters of faith or manners generally propounded and commanded by his Ho. to be obserued in the Church before it be seene and approoued by men appointed for that purpose as well to haue been rightly obtained and to be authenticall as to bee without injurie or prejudice to any Variar resol c. This is obserued to let goe the rest in Fraunce and Spaine as Couarruuias noteth in his booke Gent. Me thinkes it is very necessarie it should so be for otherwise one badly disposed man might by collusion and wrong information obtaine that of the See Apostolicke which would disturbe and annoy a whole Nation Priest In such cases their laws are not thought unlawfull nor they which make or execute them any way rebellious or disobedient The Iesuits and Archpriest in a far lesse case haue condemned vs of schisme and disobedience when they could shew vs for this authoritie neither Breue nor Bull nor any authenticall writ from the See Apostolicke Gent. And for my part also it driueth strange conceits into my head and among the rest this is one that I thinke the world will shortly haue an end But now I clearely perceiue these reports that you were schismatickes and disobedient to the See Apostolick by your delay to accept the authoritie to haue been meerely vntrue slaunders and calumnies and these the more intollerable injurious in that they were inuented cast abroad maintained and put in execution by the Iesuits and Arch-priest whose fame and bare name of religion and authoritie would induce almost all men to beleeue them to condemn you Priest So it is indeed but yet if an Angell should proclaime a true man to bee a theefe and vpon the Angels word all men should beleeue him so to bee the just man were no theefe for all the multitude of beleeuers the Angels proclamation were no lesse than an vntrue slaunder and infamie The like is in our case yet with this notable disparitie that the inuentors and setters abroad and defenders of this infamie against vs bee but Iesuits and an Arch-priest which we know to be no Angels But to conclude this part our appealing at that time and our sending to Rome to know his Ho. his good pleasure least in any thing wee might offend through ignorance in these vncertainties manifestly sheweth vs to haue beene free from all spot of schisme and disobedience to the See Apostolicke For schismatickes not acknowledging the Pope to bee their head make no recourse nor refuge to him as to their superiour and rebellious and disobedient persons to the Pope seeke not with so great paines and charges as we did to know his will that they may conforme themselues therunto VVherefore this part of their report deserueth no better name nor place than the title predicament of an vntrue slaunder Now if yet you rest unsatisfied with this that I haue said touching schisme and disobedience I referre you to our reasons and to the letter which maister Champney writ to his friend concerning this matter
and disobedient to God the authour of Natures law and to the constitutions of holy Church Pr. It is so indeed but yet the very word and sinne of disobedience imputed to vs by men of their calling entereth farre and euen at the first hearing taketh deepe root in the hearts of the most vertuously disposed moouing them to great aversions and zealous invectiues against vs albeit they know little or nothing how the case standeth And our aduersaries play vpon this aduantage to stir vp all sorts of people against vs For who is he that will not vtterly mislike a disobedient priest Gent. Disobedience truely is a foule crime discommendable and very odious in a Catholike priest if he be infected therewith and this almost in the eyes of all persons as well bad as good But yet if a Catholike priest shall be falsly charged or slaundered with this sinne the calumnie cannot disgrace him when the truth shall come to light Pr. I grant all this yet in the meane season whiles truth is by violence suppressed the best that is may sustain great losse in his good name For there be few which either know or consider how far a superior is to be obeyed and the most take euery opposition and repugnance to a knowne Superiours will or precept to be the sinne of disobedience without further discussion of things and this the rather in cases where the Superiour and his Adherents are holden to be good men and the marke they shoot at is pretended to be some speciall good thing as the glory of God peace and the like Gent. For pretences of good ends no superiour will fail to haue great store no not in the worst things he commaundeth and therefore me thinketh it necessary that before any man be defamed especially by priests and religious men of disobedience and rebellion to his superior because he resisteth his commaundement first the thing commaunded bee looked into and tried whether it bee good or euill if good then againe it be considered whether the superior haue authoritie or eommission to commaund that thing or no. For if a superiour commaund an ill thing as to kill or defame an innocent to steale or any thing against the law of God of Nature or of holy Church he is not to be obeyed neither is his repugnance to be condemned for disobedience And againe if he commaund a good thing the which yet exceedeth the limits of his authoritie a man is no way bound to obey and his refusall cannot justly bee called disobedience For otherwise I know not how our refusall to obey our temporall princes commaundement for going to Church and for practise of our religion or any other magistrats injust commaundement may be excused or defended from the crime of disobedience and rebellion in the Iesuits and Arch-priest themselues Pr. If men had considered and obserued this we had not been slaundered nor generally condemned for disobedient persons as we are for refusing to obey the Arch-priest in his decrees some of which were against the law of God and Nature others against the lawes and liberties of holy Church as I said before But the authors of these infamies and the leaders of this vngracious daunce to the headie and ignorant Laitie Maius peccatum habent haue the greater sinne Gent. I will not judge these men to haue any spice of that disease which our Saviour noted to bee in some men That could spie a mote in their neighbors eye but not discerne a beame in their owne or that in censuring other mens actions could excolare culicem make bones of a Gnat Camclum deglutire and in their owne case easily swallow vp a Cammell I will not condemne them for such I say But I remember that once a Iesuit told mee how the Pope vpon some great cause consideration doubtlesse sent a precept or a decree to the religious houses in Rome thereby prohibiting vnder great penalties That any should vse the knowledge gotten of a mans estate in the Sacrament of confession to any polliticke end or matter in any externall affaire whatsoeuer Thus much I remember he told me for the rest contained in the Apostolical writ let it passe VVhen it was brought to the Iesuits they singularly among all other orders would not presently accept thereof but required that their generall might haue accesse and licence to deale with his Ho. before they receiued it the answer being brought to the Pope forthwith hee commaunded his decree or precept to bee receiued by them without further delay vnder paine of excommunication ipso facto to be incurred In this case loe when the matter concerned their owne particular they thought it no disobedience to refuse for the time to accept and to submit themselues to this commaundement or decree of his Ho. in a matter of so great importance No it was no fault neither in their conceits for them only to shew singularitie in thadmittance of this decree of their superior and to make delaies in receiuing that which all other orders willingly admitted at the first But in this case controuersied betweene them and you the good men I perceiue are more zealous and forward and would bee loath to let escape any shew of disobedience in you against which they should not exclaime and write to your greatest discredite that may be Pr. I also haue heard of some thing like to this which you relate from the mouth of a Iesuit be it true or false but this which I will tell you is known to all Christendome to be true About eight yeares agoe it happened that the Iesuits had some discontentments with their Generall and were desirous to haue some things reformed in their order for which causes they of Spaine labored to haue generall congregation The Generall with the Italian Iesuits resisted their endeuors and did what they might to hinder it for such a capitulo or congregation had neuer been used among them but at the election of a new Generall This strife was great and continued long And at the last the Spaniards assisted by the old king of Spaine prevailed and thereupon a generall congregation was holden at Rome by commaundement of the Pope Now this contention was betweene the Iesuits and their Superiour and they enforced him against his will no doubt but vpon sufficient cause to haue this vnusuall conuention They had vowed obedience in the strictest manner their Superiours will should haue been an Oracle yet notwithstanding they proceeded against him and procured the thing they thought convenient for their societie whether hee would or no by which practise of the best of their order it is manifest that euen where obedience is vowed the subjects may resist their Superiour his will and commandement vpon a just and reasonable cause much more when there is no such vow to bind but if some of our English Iesuits or their whole societie for our disgrace will condemne vs of disobedience for resisting the Archpriest in any sort or for
refusing to obey his decrees of what qualitie soeuer they shall be we must return vpon themselues the same reproch but in a higher degree for contending with their Fa. Generall in any sort or for any cause Or if againe for credite of their societie they list to excuse their brethren and free them from disobedience in that contention because in many cases the subjects may resist their Superiours will or commaundement if they doe this for loue to their owne credite wee may entreat them for Christian charities sake to excuse our fact or to cleare vs of this horrible crime and slaunder of disobedience for our refusing to obey the Archp. in his decrees opposit to the lawes of nature and holy church Gent. It were good reason they should so doe in this matter of his vnjust decrees But how can you excuse your selues from disobedience when you vse your faculties after hee hath depriued you of them and yee celebrate notwithstanding he hath suspended you Doe you not acknowledge him to haue jurisdiction ouer you in these cases Priest Yes we doe but yet in such wise prescribed vnto him and limitted as if hee attempt to doe any thing beyond his commission it is of no effect nor validitie Gent. This must needs bee true for it were an vnreasonable and disorderly authoritie if it left all at his libertie especially to inflict punishments at his pleasure without more Priest His authoritie is to punish priests for crimes committed either by suspending the vse of their faculties or by depriuing them altogether as for suspending from the aulter we thinke hee wanteth authoritie But where there is no crime committed where no crime is proued against a priest nor he manifestly convicted thereof the Archp. hath no authoritie in any sort to punish him Now touching our case he hath suspended some others he hath quite bereaued of their faculties but for what crimes hath he done it and in what manner Hee hath not conuented nor cōvicted any of our priests of those faults which he and the Iesuits haue faigned against them without proofe of the crime without hearing the accused without citing them to aunswere vpon meere fictions and vncharitable surmises of his owne and theirs he hath proceeded against some as men guiltie of schisme rebellion enormious disobedience to the See Apostolicke and his owne authoritie against others for defending their good name in this slander against others for asking satisfaction others he afflicteth for setting their hand to the appeale without his licence others for persuading both parts to send two priests to Rome quietly with the state of the controuersie that so it might be ended by his Holinesse others for that they will not recall their appeale and yeeld to his opinion no lesse injurious to them than erronious in diuinitie and learning yea if any defend the censure of the Vniuersitie of Paris hee also tasteth of his whip Gent. These proceedings are the most disorderly and injust that euer I haue heard Priest They are no better than I tell you Gent. Surely it were impietie to thinke that his Ho. would giue him authoritie to afflict and punish innocent priests in this manner Priest So it were And therfore proceeding against vs without authoritie all his suspentions and depriuations are of no valliditie but to be contemned as friuolous proceeding from an vncharitable disposition in him and the Iesuits his counsellors Thus you see that in truth we are not justly to be touched with any note of schism rebellion or disobedience against either the See Apostolicke or the Arch-priest and that these reports are manifest calumnies and vntrue slaunders purposely deuised by our emulous aduersaries to delude mens eyes and to stirre vp the world against vs to our discredite Now if you be satisfied in these points of schisme rebellion and disobedience let vs goe to another report Gent. For these things mee thinke you haue said sufficiently and I know not what to reply more than I haue done Pr. VVell go to then what is the next slaunder The second Slaunder Gent. They giue it out all ouer that you be daungerous men because you are extraordinarily fauoured by the priuie Counsell and State by whom they say you are maintained and diuers of you haue free accsse and familiaritie with them and the Bishop of London M. Waid and others which are great presumptions that you be scarse honest men or to bee trusted by Catholickes For say they these with whom you deale and of whom you find these singular fauours are professed aduersaries to Gods holy Church and to all Catholickes and therefore it cannot but yeeld probable and very pregnant suspition of bad dealing and of treason to the common cause that you onely should haue friendly entertainment conference and accesse at your pleasures Pr. They be our aduersaries no maruell then if they speake the worst of vs they can and vpon their euill affection take hold of every occasion to surmise and report the euill we neuer did nor thought You see how vpon their own priuat opinion only against all right and conscionable proceeding where many as learned and judiciall as they held the contrarie they condemned and defamed vs of schisme rebellion and disobedience all Diuines and Canonists reproue their fact and all posteritie will admire their impudencie their want of charitie or skill or both and in the rest also their zeale spurneth them forward to deuise and vomit out any thing that may defile our credites Indeed their slaunders carie a great shew of probabilitie because they are in an odious matter and seeme to proceed from an honest mind zealous and sincere but let the particulars bee once discussed and the vizard of deceit taken away and then foorthwith the surmise and report will appeare in it owne likenesse to be a meere calumnie and vntrue slaunder First therefore where they say that we bee men of daunger it is the slaunder of an enemie deseruing no more credite than their reason is of force to proue VVhat is their reason then Because we are singularly fauored by the priuie Counsell and state Admit it bee so is this sufficient to prooue vs daungerous If it be not then is it a pernitious calumnie to account vs daungerous for a cause which is not sufficient to conuince vs to be daungerous If it be then must it follow that not only some of themselues but many also of their best lay friends in England haue beene and are in the same predicament with vs. Had not Fa. Hawood Iesuit such extraordinary fauour of the lord of Leicester that besides the secret plottings conferences which were betweene them before the Iesuits apprehension when the Father was in durance in the tower he only had there more libertie and found more friendly vsage than all the priests in the other prisons throughout England yea when many Catholicke priests were closely shut vp rigorously vsed and cruelly executed Fa. Hawood lay at ease and safetie in the
spending their mouths in condemning and defaming priests for their conferences with the Counsell and Bishop than these religious men haue done and their disciples by their example and onsetting VVhat then auaileth a name and boast of religious perfection when in obseruing this ordinarie precept of not judging or not condemning rashly they are so farre short of matching the most of our imperfect priests that they haue scarsely gotten one step before the baddest Christians Could not their charitie find any one cause or reason for excuse of M. Bluet and M. Clarkes indifferent action till some worse effect appeared VVas it needfull for their charitie to preuent their ill doing which perhaps will neuer fall out with most reprochfull slaunders Infamies in the conceits of humble and charitable men come timely ynough vpon Catholicke priests after they haue certainely done the fault and in no wise ought to be cast vpon them before the crime bee committed It is no hainous trespasse in these extremities and wants of necessary releefe in prison which by the Iesuits and the Archpr. their meanes is vncharitably brought vpon them to sollicite the Counsell or Bishop for more enlargement or for continuance of the libertie they haue alreadie or to procure the like to their afflicted brethren If in this onely they haue found a little fauor why then might not a Iesuits charitie haue pretended or imagined this to bee the cause of their going and conference Again it is no crime to sue for their owne and their brethrens banishment if thē in these great and most grieuous miseries inflicted vpon them by the Iesuits and Arch-priest as slaunders penurie losse of faculties suspensions and the like vndeserued cruelties aboue the common persecution by their aduersaries in faith they seeke for their owne deliuerance by banishment might not the religious Iesuits and Archp. by this reason justifie or at least excuse their going to the Bishop YVhat if their intentions be to worke some good of these magistrats either for their conuersion or to make them more fauourable to afflicted Catholickes and better conceited of Catholicke courses yea or to procure some tolleration or other good to our church All these be lawfull ends and might be more easily and with lesse daunger of sinne supposed by charitable men to bee their businesse till some worse matter appeared than the baddest disposition and affair that emulous heads can deuise These and many moe causes of their conferences and accesse may bee without much labour thought vpon all or any one of which might be sufficient ynough to induce a timerous conscience to deeme the best or at least to stay it from the downefall of rash suspition judgement and defamation And to tell what I thinke I should not marueile any whit if her Majestie and her Counsell should doe M. Bluet M. Doctor Bag. M. Clarke and many of our seminarie priests more singular fauours and good turnes than these they haue done or they doe to the Iesuits considering they know we hope in the end our priests simply to deale in matters of religion only and no whit to entermeddle in state affaires nor to concurre with Fa. Parsons and his associates in their plotting about titles successors inuasions and disposing of the crowne and realme either in her Majesties time or after her decease An odious and vnfit occupation for religious men which by profession should haue left the world Gent. Left the world Nay Gods pitie I feare me rather that Saint Barnard toucheth them not a little when speaking of religious men hee sayth Itane mundum sibi semundo crucifixerunt vt qui antea vix in suo vico aut oppido cogniti suerāt modo circumeuntes provincias curias frequentantes regum noticias principumque familiaritates assecuti sunt Haue they so crucified the world to themselues themselues to the world that they which before were knowne scarsely in their owne street or towne now wandering about prouinces haunting courts they haue gotten the acquaintance of kings and the familiaritie of princes And againe Video post spretam seculi pompam nonnullos in schola humilitatis superbiam magis addiscere ac sub alis mitis humilisque magistri grauius insolescere impatientes amplius fieri in claustro quam fuissent in seculo quodque magis peruersum est plerumque in domo Dei non patiuntur habere contemptui qui in sua non nisi contemptibiles esse potuerunt I see some after they haue despised the pompe of the world to learne rather pride in the schoole of humilitie and vnder the wings of a mild and humble master to wax more proud and to become more impatient in the cloister than they had been in the world and which is most peruerse of all for the most part they disdaine to bee had in contempt in Gods house which in their owne estates could not be but contemptible If this concerne them let them looke to it and if it doe he telleth them from whence their euill springeth saying Nec aliunde haec omnia mala contingunt nisi quod illam qua seculum deseruerunt descrentes humilitatem dum per hoc cognitur inepta denuo sectari studia secularium canes efficiuntur reuertentes ad vomitum Neither proceed these euils from any other but that forsaking that humility wherwith they left the world whiles hereby they are enforced to follow again the vnfit studies of secular persons they become dogs returning againe to their vomit Pr. For these sayings of S. Barnard how it toucheth the Iesuits I will not trouble my selfe but as I said our not intermedling in matters of Estate may be a very great motiue to her Maiestie her Counsell why they should do vs moe pleasures and shew vs greater fauours than the Iesuits and such as runne their courses which cause being no fault in vs but a laudable thing and conformable to our function if we should reape fauours therfore they ought not in conscience to be turned to our reproch and infamie as though we were fauoured by them for some lewde demeanour and the Iesuits ought to blame themselues if for their dangerous tampering in things which belong them not they should finde some extraordinarie affliction or not the like fauours that three or foure semenarie Priests haue done Gent. Indeed there is no reason to the contrarie the jelousie of our magistrates and the State of our Countrey considered Pr. But now what benefits and fauours be these which any of ours receiue so extraordinarily aboue the Iesuits and their adherents Gent. The report flyeth That besides this libertie and fauour which M. Bluet and M. Clarke find that you all are maintained by the Lords of the Counsell that you want nothing and therefore are not to haue allowance or a part out of any common almes or money giuen for reliefe of poore Catholike Priests and prisoners Pr. VVhat thinke you of this report Gent. I thinke it very false Pr. I assure you
not depriued of Catholicke almes for another mans fault if perhaps these good religious Fathers judge it a fault for any of vs in these extreame wants of releefe brought vpon vs by their vncharitable dealings to receiue almes at the hands of our aduersaries in Faith when we are denied it of Catholickes Gent. They name M. Doctor Bag. and the report runneth generally of you all Pr. For vs all it is needlesse to say more now for Doctor Bagsha of whom by likelyhood Father Parsons had informed the Pope and Cardinals to haue yearly anuitie of the Queene it is no better than a malicious calumnie purposely deuised and cast abroad to make the good man odious to all honest minds In the tower indeed while he was prisoner for his Faith hee had the Queenes ordinarie allowance graunted before to Fa. Campion Fa. Hawood after to Father Iohn Gerrard Iesuits and denied to no poore prisoner there In the gate-house also in his last troubles which were procured to him as many probably affirme by some busie plotting Iesuits beyond when they tampered with Squire about doing violence to her Majesties person he had the Queenes allowance during his abode there as they say and it may perhaps bee that finding him guiltlesse of all those treasonable practises the Counsell bestowed some thing on him towards his charges in that trouble or surely it had ben a deed of charitie to haue been done so But what is all this to Fa. Parsons information of an anuitie or to the report that now flieth currant against him and all the rest of being maintained by the Counsell Gent. Nothing at all Priest It is a worlds wonder therefore to behold how forward and how eagre these religious men be to make all our friends and benefactours to forsake vs both for entertainment and reliefe And besides these reports all vntrue as you see they vse another prettie meane to withdraw our Catholike friends from vs. Gent. VVhat may this be I pray you Pr. Mary when no other deuise will serue to work this feat the religious Fathers turne themselues to terrifie our friends and benefactors from releeuing vs by dreadfull threats as that whosoeuer standeth with vs in these controuersies against them shall haue all confiscated before the twelue moneths end and be left not worth a groat Gent. Belike they haue laid their plot and thinke it sure to haue their desired effect Priest I know not what nor how they haue plotted but this bugge flyeth all ouer Gent. How know you that it proceedtth from the Iesuits Pr. I doubt not but the originall is from them because their intierest friends adherents prattle it euery where Againe it hath beene long the fashion of the religious Fathers to put men into great expectation of fauour and aduancement when their day shall come and to ring euery yeare fresh larums of forraine preparations and I know not what that by these vaine hopes and hurtfull bables they may retaine their old friends and win new and withall driue fearefull conceits into the minds of all such as run not their courses Gent. Truly I thinke this to be so and my selfe haue heard some priests familiar with them which yet exceedingly misliked their doings busie tampering say These Iesuits looke one day to haue the dealing of all Bishoprickes and Ecclesiasticall liuings vnlesse we flatter them and feed their humors wee shall get nothing Pr. These were base-minded priests Gent. They be so indeed yet they are highly esteemed of by the Iesuits for seeming forward men for them Pr. I abhorre such collouging But to put you out of doubt whence these threats haue their origine I assure you it was a famous father of the Iesuits that in plaine words said to a gentlewoman of good calling which charitably respected the disgraced priests and was resolued to stand indifferent to all vntill the controuersie were decided by the Church Now said he is the time of triall they that are not with vs are against vs the good man would haue had her neither to releeue nor harbour any of vs but to shun vs all as rebellious schismatickes if you forsake them not now you will ouerthrow your selfe and all your posteritie for euer This he said to affright the charitable gentlewoman as though the state of her posteritie should be vtterly ouerthrowne vnlesse she adhered to the Iesuits for who must not stand at their deuotion when all commeth to their sharing and doe bad offices against vs priests her knowne Catholicke and sincere friends VVhat more was it not another Iesuit with his assistant which caused a Gentleman either to promise or to sweare that hee should stand fast vnto them and informe whatsoeuer hee saw or heard by priests and others done against them and the Archp. his proceedings They made the lay gentleman their spie as they haue euery where many such as well lay men as women priests vpon promise on their side againe to him that he should bee restored to all his lands forfeited by his auncestors in a commotion by an attainder when the world should fall on their side The silly Gentleman mooued with this hope vndertooke the disgracefull office and said to his friends that he had wrought a very good daies worke when he entred this couenant yet comming among his old acquaintance he would now and then reueale the secret and forewarne them to speake nothing which they were not willing to haue carried further for he had vndertaken and promised to informe what he heard Gent. This was a very bad office for a Gentleman surely he was some foole Pr. Nay no foole for want of wit but in truth the polliticke practises and the cunning deuises vsed by Iesuits in our nation these late yeares haue not only much impeached the due estimation honour and reuerent respect which the laitie carried towards Catholicke priests before they entered among vs and some while after but it hath more ouer exceedingly decaied the naturall sincere condition of our people and there the most where these fathers haue had most conuersation and dealing many of modest and temperat constitution are become imperious brasen faced and furious men against priests they that were lowly and humble peremptorie rash in their judgements and disdainefull the simple and sincere are growne to bee cunning and double dealers full of equiuocations in their words dissembling in their behauior But to come to the slaunderous report wee haue in hand what say you Haue you any more to object for them or you rest satisfied Gent. I haue no more to say but am sorie that vpon so slender grounds the Iesuits with the Archp. and their adherents raise vp such slaunderous buildings Pr. VVell then shal we passe to some other points Gent. VVith a good will Priest Go to then what is the next The third slaunder Gent. They report that your cause hath been tried already at Rome and the two messengers you sent heard condemned and punished all you
hereticall or an euill prince VVhat can they say to the Bishops and Pastours in the Low countries and the Vniuersities of Doway whom they reckon to be their aduersaries by reason of the great contentions had betweene them about eight yeares ago VVhat to the Vniuersities of Louaine with whome they haue had bickering since VVhat to the whole order of Dominicans letting passe other religious betweene whom and them there hath been of long as is continuall bitter strifes in Spaine as all the world knoweth And all these included in Fa. Parsons ougly beadroll If all these be of bad disposition and gracelesse because they be the Iesuits aduersaries then haue we also good cause to dread but if contrariwise these be reported to be their aduersaries and are indeed no lesse than we and yet knowne to be good Catholick men Vniuersities and orders it is no true cause of disgrace vnto vs if we be reported also their aduersaries for defending our selues against their violent injuries and for resisting their other courses manifestly hurtfull to our whole church Gent. VVhat is the cause that they make these troubles and giue such discontent almost in euery place where they come Pr. Surely not any perfection of vertue that is in them aboue other religious men but their polliticke tampering and their busie stirring both in temporall states and Ecclesiasticall For they being not tied to keepe the quire with diuine offices as other religious orders bee they haue more leisure and libertie than any other to occupie themselues in matters impertinent vnto them It is their glorie to bee euer stirring in the greatest affaires and with the greatest personages where they come yea they delight so much in the actiue life that their young men are no sooner out of their nouiceship or course in learning but if there be ought in them they begin to tamper and to become polliticke and must be thought sufficient to mannage any businesse I remember I haue read in an Italian hystorie written by a gentleman of Genua touching the late king of Portugall Sebastian and the competitors to that crowne after his death how the Iesuits greatly fauoured by that king disturbed not a little the peace of that kingdome by their tampering in the princes affaires where the author noteth how with great indiscretion as vpon a head and suddainely they would haue reformed the corrupt manners of the countrey Againe how by the Cardinals meanes they procured the displacing of some auncient officers about the king and brought in such as depended on themselues to no small discontentment of many And lastly how especially vpon the Iesuits motion and persuasion the king entertained the Affricane affaires and resolued to vndertake that fatall voyage from which yet they could not afterwards dissuade him when it was misliked and thought daungerous by all his friends This Historie is now in English See page 9. 10. 11. c. because they had set him too farre in liking therwith before But at the last they wrought themselues out of fauour with the king as he sayth for they would ouerrule all Gent. I would see that hystorie Pr. I thinke you may haue it in England it is in Octauo and printed in Italie as I remember Gent. By likelyhood then this busie intermeddling of theirs in Vniuersities in kingdomes in the charges of Bishops and Pastours c. is the cheefe cause why they worke these troubles euery where Pr. Verely I thinke it be For among them he is most esteemed that can shew himself most politicke most stirring and vndertaking especially with greatest estates and highest matters Gent. These humours are not in them all For I know diuers of them very good simple and vertuous men which trouble their heads with nothing except their studie and deuotion Pr. There be some of them no doubt such as you say continuing in the simplicitie and good zeale wherewith they first entered and encreasing their spirituall graces These though they must sooth the humors of the rest and in all things defend their actions yet delight not to be busie and stickling in others mens affaires and indeed these be the glorie of their societie and deserue loue and honour aboue the rest But there be few of this sort considering it is a credit among themselues to be actiue and politick and no small contention who may bee thought most to excell in these Gent. Yet many good men thinke much and marvell what should be the cause why you secular priests should be aduersaries to the Iesuits haue contentions with them and especially with Fa. Parsons who is most esteemed of among the Iesuits for his wisdome and other good parts and who also hath wrought great good to our Nation by his booke of Resolution which argueth him to bee a vertuous man and by erecting Semenaries for the education of our yong men And generally the Iesuits seek not their owne temporall benefit but bestow themselues onely for the good of others many say that without them our Church had bene in worse case than it is Againe that it is but a slaunder that they entermeddle in the mattets of you secular priests or that they haue any dealings in the affaires of temporall estates It is no just cause giuen you by them but your own vnmortified passions and disobedient minds to your lawfull superiors which make you to repine and mammer and to exclaime against them Priest For the Iesuits in generall I neuer said nor thought other but that if they keepe themselues onely at these good exercises of preaching of ministring sacraments without prejudice to the ordinarie Pastors of catechising of teaching in schooles of visiting the sicke and liuing as brethren and fellow labourers in Gods worke seeke the estimation of the secular cleargie among their people I neuer thoght I say but that they be very profitable coadjutors in Christs church and deserue loue and reuerence of all sorts But if withall they become officious sticklers in princes affaires Ecclesiasticall or temporall or busie themselues with entermedling in the secular Cleargies matters which belong not to them and seeke to aduaunce themselues in credit and otherwise aboue the priests as in England they haue done I then thinke them very dangerous and noysome members in any church for the subuersion of peace and good order because vpon that disposition forthwith they bring in great deuisions and draw both priests and people into lamentable factions as is manifest in this poore realme At VVisbich you haue heard how they made very scandalous contentions about establishing a superioritie in one of theirs aboue all the other prisoners You haue heard also how they hindered the vnion of secular priests in a confraternitie how they withstood our endeuors touching Bishops or Suffraganes how without our consents or priuitie they procured an Arch-priest to be ordained ouer all English priests in England and Scotland they onely appointing what kind of superioritie and gouernement our Church should haue and