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cause_n bishop_n church_n rome_n 6,168 5 7.0527 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A00430 Catholique traditions. Or A treatise of the beliefe of the Christians of Asia, Europa, and Africa, in the principall controuersies of our time In fauour of the louers of the catholicke trueth, and the peace of the Church. Written in French by Th. A.I.C. and translated into English, by L.O.; Tradition catholique. English Eudes, Morton.; Owen, Lewis, 1572-1633. 1609 (1609) STC 10561; ESTC S101746 137,760 254

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upon_o which_o the_o ordinary_a bishop_n of_o city_n be_v constitute_v and_o withal_o tradition_n confirm_v this_o for_o there_o be_v no_o church_n in_o the_o world_n which_o name_v not_o the_o apostle_n before_o the_o bishop_n yea_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n prefer_v the_o apostle_n before_o the_o pope_n it_o remain_v then_o for_o we_o to_o search_v who_o be_v the_o successor_n of_o s._n john_n in_o the_o catholic_a primacy_n whether_o polycarpus_n be_v his_o successor_n in_o ephesus_n or_o simeon_n successor_n to_o s._n peter_n in_o jerusalem_n or_o albinus_n of_o alexandria_n successor_n of_o s._n mark_v successor_n and_o choose_v of_o s._n peter_n or_o ignatius_n successor_n of_o euodias_n and_o of_o s._n peter_n in_o antioch_n or_o euaristus_n successor_n of_o clement_n and_o of_o linus_n and_o of_o s._n peter_n in_o rome_n there_o be_v two_o church_n which_o have_v contend_v herein_o more_o than_o eight_o hundred_o year_n that_o be_v to_o say_v that_o of_o constantinople_n and_o that_o of_o rome_n the_o roman_a church_n say_v that_o s._n peter_n have_v ordain_v be_v from_o god_n that_o rome_n shall_v have_v the_o primacy_n and_o power_n to_o command_v and_o that_o for_o ever_o they_o of_o constantinople_n say_v on_o the_o contrary_a side_n that_o our_o lord_n never_o speak_v any_o such_o word_n much_o less_o saint_n peter_n himself_o and_o if_o any_o such_o thing_n have_v be_v some_o one_o of_o the_o apostle_n will_v have_v write_v of_o it_o this_o article_n be_v the_o foundation_n of_o all_o the_o doctrine_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n moreover_o saint_n peter_n himself_o will_v have_v preach_v the_o same_o and_o saint_n john_n who_o succeed_v and_o outlived_n s._n peter_n will_v not_o have_v stay_v in_o ephesus_n well_o then_o you_o see_v that_o all_o the_o church_n plant_v by_o the_o apostle_n not_o except_v any_o one_o do_v testify_v after_o many_o age_n that_o neither_o they_o nor_o their_o father_n never_o believe_v nor_o hold_v that_o the_o primacy_n by_o divine_a power_n be_v due_a to_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o rather_o that_o it_o appertain_v to_o whosoever_o shall_v be_v choose_v and_o elect_v by_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n alone_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v q_o believe_v much_o less_o in_o his_o own_o proper_a cause_n in_o like_a manner_n many_o learned_a man_n of_o the_o latin_a church_n do_v confess_v that_o the_o reason_n wherefore_o rome_n be_v hold_v to_o have_v the_o primacy_n in_o divine_a affair_n be_v a_o opinion_n of_o the_o vulgar_a sort_n so_o that_o rather_o to_o constantinople_n appertain_v the_o primacy_n see_v it_o be_v give_v she_o by_o the_o apostolic_a church_n which_o they_o give_v not_o then_o to_o rome_n be_v one_o of_o the_o last_o seat_n of_o saint_n peter_n but_o only_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o imperial_a seat_n well_o then_o to_o make_v this_o the_o more_o intelligible_a it_o be_v necessary_a to_o know_v how_o it_o happen_v that_o the_o city_n of_o rome_n now_o a_o day_n pretend_v that_o the_o primacy_n be_v due_a to_o she_o by_o divine_a right_n the_o above_o mention_a apostolic_a church_n do_v surmise_n as_o follow_v and_o say_v first_o that_o saint_n peter_n have_v the_o first_o place_n among_o the_o apostle_n for_o he_o be_v oftentimes_o demand_v many_o thing_n by_o the_o lord_n and_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o name_n of_o his_o fellow_n over_o who_o nevertheless_o he_o have_v no_o jurisdiction_n nor_o authority_n although_o that_o some_o do_v think_v that_o he_o resign_v it_o to_o saint_n james_n when_o they_o be_v together_o at_o jerusalem_n after_o that_o s._n james_n be_v institute_v bishop_n that_o be_v to_o say_v after_o that_o he_o be_v stay_v that_o he_o shall_v make_v his_o ordinary_a residence_n there_o second_o that_o saint_n john_n during_o his_o life_n after_o the_o time_n of_o s._n peter_n have_v the_o first_o place_n among_o all_o the_o evangelist_n and_o bishop_n three_o that_o he_o never_o teach_v that_o rome_n by_o divine_a right_n aught_o to_o be_v the_o mistress_n of_o the_o other_o church_n if_o he_o have_v s._n polycarpus_n his_o disciple_n and_o other_o his_o successor_n in_o ephesus_n have_v not_o debate_v so_o earnest_o and_o obstinate_o against_o the_o roman_a church_n touch_v the_o feast_n of_o easter_n four_o that_o after_o s._n john_n the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n obtain_v by_o just_a title_n the_o first_o place_n among_o the_o bishop_n which_o be_v under_o the_o roman_a empire_n for_o see_v that_o the_o citizen_n of_o rome_n then_o reign_v over_o the_o inhabitant_n of_o other_o city_n he_o have_v be_v both_o proud_a audacious_a and_o unreasonable_a which_o will_v have_v prefer_v himself_o before_o their_o bishop_n especial_o without_o any_o ordinance_n of_o a_o council_n five_o that_o the_o church_n of_o italy_n and_o other_o their_o neighbour_n through_o the_o lap_n of_o time_n give_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n not_o only_o the_o first_o place_n but_o also_o the_o superintendancie_n over_o the_o bishop_n near_o they_o in_o particular_a for_o to_o give_v his_o advice_n in_o matter_n that_o happen_v till_o a_o synod_n may_v be_v have_v six_o that_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a approve_a the_o same_o and_o ordain_v that_o alexandria_n 42._o shall_v in_o like_a manner_n have_v the_o oversight_n of_o the_o church_n of_o egypt_n and_o of_o africa_n and_o that_o the_o church_n of_o christian_n antioch_n shall_v oversee_v those_o of_o the_o east_n and_o after_o a_o certain_a time_n because_o the_o imperial_a seat_n be_v transport_v unto_o constantinople_n it_o be_v ordain_v that_o that_o bishop_n shall_v be_v overseer_n of_o the_o greek_a church_n and_o the_o bishop_n of_o jerusalem_n shall_v be_v admit_v to_o be_v one_o of_o the_o five_o for_o palestina_n and_o those_o five_o be_v call_v patriarch_n seven_o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n all_o this_o while_n have_v the_o first_o seat_n but_o yet_o without_o any_o universal_a jurisdiction_n but_o rather_o every_o one_o of_o the_o foresay_a five_o patriarch_n judge_v or_o rather_o give_v his_o advice_n and_o opinion_n till_o a_o council_n may_v be_v have_v as_o even_o to_o this_o day_n they_o of_o constantinople_n although_o that_o they_o call_v themselves_o oecumenicke_n be_v subject_a to_o synod_n but_o yet_o of_o greece_n only_o eight_o that_o maurice_n emperor_n of_o constantinople_n will_v have_v take_v away_o the_o primacy_n from_o dialoger_n gregory_n bishop_n of_o rome_n and_o young_a give_v it_o to_o john_n bishop_n of_o constantinople_n who_o for_o a_o mark_n of_o his_o place_n desire_v to_o have_v the_o title_n of_o a_o general_a oecumenicos_fw-la bishop_n and_o that_o gregory_n do_v oppose_v himself_o against_o he_o lest_o he_o shall_v loose_v his_o place_n urge_v how_o insolent_a that_o title_n be_v and_o say_v that_o john_n will_v usurp_v dominion_n over_o the_o other_o bishop_n which_o peradventure_o be_v not_o the_o intention_n of_o john_n but_o he_o on_o the_o contrary_a side_n to_o show_v that_o he_o be_v content_v with_o the_o rank_n or_o place_n of_o his_o predecessor_n call_v himself_o seruus_n seruorum_fw-la dei_fw-la the_o servant_n of_o the_o servant_n of_o god_n nine_o that_o phocas_n have_v slay_v maurice_n give_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n which_o be_v then_o boniface_n the_o first_o seat_n and_o title_n of_o general_n or_o universal_a bishop_n and_o yet_o without_o any_o jurisdiction_n or_o dominion_n over_o the_o other_o patriarch_v which_o notwithstanding_o the_o church_n acknowledge_v he_o not_o in_o that_o quality_n ten_o that_o charles_n the_o great_a king_n of_o france_n have_v subdue_v with_o arm_n a_o great_a part_n of_o europe_n the_o city_n of_o rome_n crave_v his_o aid_n against_o the_o lombard_n who_o be_v over_o come_v by_o the_o same_o king_n the_o roman_n proclaim_v he_o their_o emperor_n 11_o that_o than_o the_o emperor_n of_o the_o east_n with_o the_o consent_n of_o the_o patriarchall_a and_o apostolic_a church_n take_v from_o rome_n the_o primacy_n and_o give_v it_o to_o the_o say_a church_n of_o constantinople_n 12_o that_o than_o the_o roman_n see_v that_o by_o the_o ecclesiastical_a law_n they_o shall_v loose_v the_o primacy_n begin_v to_o say_v that_o the_o primacy_n belong_v as_o of_o divine_a right_n to_o they_o and_o to_o their_o bishop_n and_o consequent_o that_o the_o whole_a church_n together_o can_v not_o take_v away_o from_o they_o the_o first_o rank_n because_o that_o rome_n be_v the_o sea_n of_o s._n peter_n 13_o that_o after_o that_o they_o of_o the_o east_n have_v right_o say_v that_o he_o be_v successor_n of_o s._n peter_n which_o be_v elect_v confirm_v and_o approve_v by_o the_o great_a part_n of_o the_o church_n in_o what_o place_n soever_o he_o make_v his_o residence_n and_o that_o imitate_v s._n peter_n in_o doctrine_n and_o humility_n that_o the_o bishop_n of_o
rome_n have_v bring_v into_o their_o church_n many_o error_n and_o have_v innovate_v many_o thing_n without_o and_o against_o the_o decree_n of_o the_o counsel_n withal_o they_o have_v add_v to_o the_o symbol_n of_o nice_a of_o their_o private_a authority_n that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o son_n even_o as_o from_o the_o father_n that_o although_o that_o the_o universal_a council_n have_v give_v the_o first_o seat_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n yet_o do_v not_o they_o believe_v that_o the_o church_n in_o future_a time_n can_v not_o take_v from_o he_o this_o place_n especial_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n shall_v fall_v into_o any_o error_n as_o they_o say_v she_o be_v already_o fall_v 14_o that_o in_o the_o mean_a while_o the_o province_n of_o the_o empire_n of_o charles_n the_o great_a to_o wit_n france_n italy_n germany_n and_o spain_n remain_v under_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n as_o be_v their_o near_a patriarch_n which_o be_v the_o reason_n that_o they_o now_o go_v about_o to_o persuade_v man_n that_o the_o primacy_n appertain_v unto_o he_o by_o god_n law_n but_o this_o shall_v be_v no_o prejudice_n to_o other_o church_n nor_o to_o the_o truth_n 15._o that_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n enrich_v with_o the_o gift_n and_o donation_n of_o the_o king_n of_o france_n and_o per_fw-la adventure_n believe_v themselves_o to_o be_v that_o which_o be_v repated_a of_o they_o have_v overthrow_v both_o spiritual_a and_o temporal_a monarch_n and_o have_v cause_v to_o be_v receive_v in_o place_n under_o obedience_n to_o they_o as_o well_o the_o law_n of_o their_o predecessor_n the_o pope_n make_v by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o also_o those_o law_n which_o they_o themselves_o from_o time_n to_o time_n do_v add_v thereunto_o in_o somuch_o that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o east_n south_n and_o north_n with_o good_a reason_n have_v oppose_v themselves_o against_o these_o enterprise_n the_o confession_n and_o belief_n of_o the_o apostolic_a church_n about_o this_o question_n here_o in_o controversy_n be_v this_o that_o the_o first_o seat_n which_o be_v by_o divine_a law_n so_o far_o as_o be_v necessary_a for_o the_o order_n of_o counsel_n and_o be_v meet_v to_o show_v cl_o unity_n be_v by_o the_o ecclesiastical_a law_n as_o also_o the_o sea_n that_o appertain_v to_o any_o such_o bishop_n who_o the_o catholic_a church_n shall_v judge_v to_o be_v fit_a and_o capable_a of_o such_o a_o charge_n question_n iii_o whether_o miracle_n be_v sufficient_a proof_n that_o a_o christian_a nation_n ought_v to_o be_v hold_v for_o a_o true_a church_n and_o without_o error_n the_o east_n churches_n marcus_n paulus_n a_o 18._o venetian_a the_o citizen_n of_o the_o city_n of_o tauris_n be_v mahomet_n but_o there_o be_v some_o christian_n that_o inhabit_v there_o to_o wit_n nestorian_n and_o jacobite_n near_o to_o which_o town_n be_v a_o mountain_n which_o be_v once_o remove_v out_o of_o his_o place_n by_o the_o occasion_n that_o follow_v the_o sarrazin_n will_v to_o scandal_n the_o gospel_n say_v that_o it_o be_v write_v if_o you_o have_v faith_n as_o much_o as_o a_o groin_n of_o mustardseed_n 20._o you_o shall_v say_v unto_o this_o mountain_n remove_v hence_o to_o yonder_o place_n &_o it_o shall_v remove_v well_o say_v the_o sarrazin_n mock_v the_o christian_n if_o your_o say_v be_v so_o excellent_a cause_n this_o mountain_n to_o remove_v out_o of_o his_o place_n then_o one_o of_o the_o christian_n fervent_a in_o faith_n speak_v to_o the_o mountain_n with_o a_o great_a confidence_n get_v thou_o hence_o the_o which_o incontinent_o remove_v in_o the_o presence_n and_o fight_n of_o all_o the_o people_n the_o very_a same_o author_n make_v mention_n of_o a_o pillar_n hang_v in_o the_o air_n which_o sustain_v the_o vault_n of_o a_o church_n in_o sammarchan_n 4_o vilimont_n whosoever_o will_v see_v a_o thing_n worthy_a of_o memory_n must_v go_v to_o a_o little_a town_n call_v sardinale_n inhabit_v by_o the_o christian_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o syrian_n where_o turk_n sarrazin_n or_o moor_n can_v dwell_v but_o they_o die_v before_o the_o year_n end_n ferd._n faber_n not_o far_o from_o the_o city_n of_o muscovia_n there_o be_v a_o great_a monastery_n wherein_o be_v the_o sepulchre_n of_o one_o sergius_n a_o abbot_n which_o monastery_n be_v very_o much_o frequent_v of_o the_o people_n for_o it_o be_v hold_v very_o famous_a for_o many_o miracle_n that_o be_v there_o wrought_v whereof_o it_o shall_v be_v sufficient_a to_o produce_v one_o which_o be_v that_o two_o blind_a man_n be_v restore_v to_o their_o sight_n there_o the_o same_o ibidem_fw-la author_n it_o be_v a_o common_a thing_n among_o the_o muscovite_n to_o enchant_v serpent_n with_o word_n and_o chase_v away_o devil_n and_o deliver_v and_o help_v they_o that_o be_v possess_v thomas_n lopes_n lopes_n the_o people_n of_o mangalor_n say_v that_o they_o go_v very_o often_o to_o the_o sepulchre_n of_o s._n thomas_n which_o be_v in_o their_o country_n who_o wrought_v among_o they_o many_o miracle_n the_o ecclesiastical_a history_n of_o pach._n constantinople_n make_v mention_n that_o arsenius_n be_v institute_v bishop_n by_o the_o pope_n he_o be_v then_o become_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n for_o which_o cause_n he_o be_v excommunicate_v by_o the_o patriarcke_n pachomius_n a_o little_a after_o that_o he_o die_v and_o his_o soul_n go_v with_o the_o soul_n of_o arrius_n and_o eutiches_n heretic_n and_o his_o body_n be_v find_v black_a &_o swell_a which_o cause_v great_a fear_n to_o those_o that_o see_v he_o the_o meridian_n church_n aluares_n 16._o there_o be_v a_o sepulchre_n of_o one_o of_o the_o son_n of_o king_n abram_n which_o they_o say_v be_v a_o priest_n among_o other_o miracle_n which_o they_o attribute_v unto_o he_o they_o say_v that_o the_o angel_n do_v minister_v bread_n and_o wine_n unto_o he_o when_o he_o celebrate_v the_o same_o author_n 17._o they_o attribute_v the_o title_n of_o a_o saint_n to_o a_o certain_a king_n who_o name_n be_v balibeta_n towards_o who_o the_o people_n bear_v such_o great_a devotion_n that_o all_o ethiope_n do_v run_v thither_o where_o his_o body_n be_v bury_v which_o they_o report_v to_o work_v great_a miracle_n idem_fw-la 11._o there_o be_v a_o monastery_n call_v abba_n gariman_n retain_v this_o name_n of_o one_o which_o as_o they_o report_v reign_v in_o greece_n who_o have_v forsake_v his_o kingdom_n retire_v to_o this_o place_n to_o do_v penance_n for_o his_o sin_n where_o he_o finish_v his_o day_n very_o holy_o and_o they_o report_v that_o he_o at_o this_o present_a do_v miracle_n the_o catholic_a roman_n church_n gloss_n canon_n glorios_fw-la 22._o we_o must_v inquire_v of_o miracle_n do_v in_o the_o life_n time_n and_o after_o death_n and_o to_o the_o end_n that_o these_o may_v be_v true_a miracle_n four_o thing_n be_v requisite_a first_o that_o they_o be_v of_o god_n and_o not_o frame_v by_o art_n or_o by_o the_o devil_n for_o miracle_n be_v wrought_v by_o the_o wicked_a second_o that_o they_o be_v contrary_a to_o nature_n as_o that_o of_o the_o rod_n of_o moses_n turn_v into_o a_o serpent_n three_o that_o they_o be_v not_o wrought_v by_o word_n but_o through_o the_o merit_n of_o a_o man_n four_a that_o they_o be_v for_o the_o confirmation_n of_o the_o faith_n annot._n whosoever_o will_v know_v more_o ample_o the_o miracle_n of_o the_o latin_a church_n may_v read_v the_o legend_n and_o life_n of_o the_o saint_n the_o reform_a church_n the_o confession_n of_o the_o frenchman_n 5._o we_o believe_v that_o the_o word_n contain_v in_o the_o canonical_a write_n proceed_v from_o god_n and_o forasmuch_o as_o it_o be_v the_o very_a rule_n of_o truth_n it_o follow_v that_o neither_o antiquity_n nor_o custom_n nor_o the_o multitude_n nor_o humane_a wisdom_n neither_o judgement_n nor_o vision_n nor_o miracle_n ought_v to_o be_v oppose_v to_o it_o annotation_n the_o east_n church_n do_v believe_v that_o the_o roman_a and_o ethiopian_a church_n do_v hold_v a_o erroneous_a and_o heretical_a opinion_n although_o there_o be_v miracle_n wrought_v among_o they_o in_o like_a manner_n the_o roman_n do_v pronounce_v a_o anathema_n against_o all_o christian_n that_o have_v not_o obey_v they_o as_o well_o against_o they_o of_o the_o east_n and_o south_n as_o also_o the_o north_n church_n notwithstanding_o their_o miracle_n the_o church_n of_o africa_n refuse_v nay_o scorn_v to_o go_v and_o submit_v or_o subject_v themselves_o either_o to_o the_o greek_a church_n or_o to_o the_o latin_a church_n notwithstanding_o their_o miracle_n the_o latin_a church_n in_o the_o foresay_a canon_n do_v confess_v that_o miracle_n be_v wrought_v by_o wicked_a person_n the_o reform_a church_n say_v that_o miracle_n or_o the_o bruit_n of_o miracle_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v take_v as_o a_o mark_n of_o the_o true_a church_n and_o which_o be_v more_o
greek_n and_o the_o latin_n in_o that_o point_n do_v only_o report_v the_o say_n and_o sentence_n of_o the_o ancient_a grecian_n who_o say_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o father_n and_o the_o son_n but_o that_o have_v not_o satisfy_v his_o follower_n which_o think_v that_o the_o modern_a grecian_n hold_v not_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o ancient_a beside_o some_o of_o the_o latin_a doctor_n do_v confess_v that_o they_o understand_v not_o well_o the_o intention_n and_o meaning_n of_o the_o grecian_n other_o do_v call_v they_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n the_o reform_a church_n do_v leave_v this_o question_n with_o the_o same_o irresolution_n we_o reject_v say_v tilenus_n the_o error_n or_o as_o other_o term_v it_o the_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o modern_a grecian_n this_o difference_n have_v be_v the_o cause_n or_o at_o least_o wise_a the_o pretext_n of_o the_o schism_n betwixt_o the_o east_n church_n and_o the_o west_n the_o east_n church_n who_o will_v transport_v the_o primacy_n to_o constantinople_n pretend_v that_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n abuse_v the_o church_n do_v take_v occasion_n to_o accuse_v the_o pope_n upon_o this_o article_n that_o pope_n be_v nicholas_n the_o first_o by_o the_o report_n of_o bellarmine_n who_o allege_v 21._o anthoninus_n or_o adrianus_n as_o some_o will_v have_v it_o because_o that_o he_o have_v be_v so_o bold_a as_o to_o add_v of_o his_o own_o authority_n to_o the_o symbol_n of_o nice_a that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o son_n and_o because_o peradventure_o he_o have_v not_o expound_v it_o full_o they_o of_o the_o east_n have_v accuse_v the_o latin_n of_o constitute_v two_o principle_n and_o the_o latin_n lay_v the_o fault_n upon_o they_o do_v impute_v unto_o they_o blasphemy_n say_v that_o they_o do_v derogate_v from_o the_o divinity_n of_o the_o son_n of_o god_n lombard_n and_o other_o say_v that_o the_o difference_n be_v in_o word_n and_o not_o in_o the_o matter_n 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person_n and_o that_o be_v it_o which_o s._n austen_n regard_v when_o he_o say_v that_o the_o son_n have_v from_o the_o father_n not_o only_o to_o be_v son_n but_o also_o to_o be_v or_o his_o be_v that_o be_v to_o say_v to_o be_v a_o distinct_a person_n not_o to_o be_v simple_o the_o divine_a essence_n for_o the_o son_n have_v the_o same_o of_o 19_o himself_o and_o the_o person_n beget_v not_o the_o essence_n but_o the_o essence_n beget_v the_o person_n and_o if_o the_o son_n produce_v not_o in_o this_o manner_n that_o be_v to_o say_v as_o a_o person_n than_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v not_o from_o the_o son_n in_o any_o wise_a for_o as_o it_o have_v be_v say_v the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v not_o from_o the_o sonn_n either_o as_o a_o essence_n or_o as_o a_o son_n well_o then_o if_o the_o grecian_n say_v not_o that_o he_o to_o wit_n the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o essence_n of_o the_o son_n be_v simple_o take_v neither_o from_o the_o son_n as_o a_o son_n the_o latin_n shall_v not_o take_v occasion_n to_o condemn_v they_o see_v that_o they_o say_v the_o same_o but_o because_o the_o grecian_n say_v and_o that_o according_a to_o the_o gospel_n that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o father_n it_o be_v manifest_a that_o they_o deny_v not_o the_o procession_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n to_o be_v from_o the_o son_n because_o he_o proceed_v not_o from_o he_o either_o as_o a_o essence_n or_o as_o a_o son_n for_o if_o that_o be_v so_o they_o shall_v deny_v in_o like_a manner_n his_o procession_n to_o be_v from_o the_o father_n for_o the_o father_n produce_v not_o the_o holy_a ghost_n as_o a_o essence_n simple_o for_o the_o essence_n produce_v not_o neither_o as_o a_o father_n for_o if_o he_o have_v produce_v he_o as_o a_o father_n the_o holy_a ghost_n shall_v be_v then_o his_o son_n the_o grecian_n do_v hold_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o father_n in_o such_o a_o sort_n as_o he_o can_v be_v say_v to_o proceed_v from_o the_o son_n and_o they_o have_v reason_n to_o say_v so_o because_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v in_o the_o person_n and_o from_o the_o person_n of_o the_o son_n the_o which_o the_o father_n have_v beget_v as_o a_o son_n and_o the_o father_n beget_v not_o a_o son_n which_o have_v not_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o his_o productive_a grace_n and_o fertility_n likewise_o the_o father_n be_v the_o cause_n the_o greek_a doctor_n do_v use_v this_o word_n 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n both_o as_o a_o person_n primo_fw-la &_o per_fw-la se_fw-la and_o as_o a_o father_n per_fw-la filium_fw-la but_o the_o son_n inspire_v not_o as_o a_o son_n primo_fw-la &_o per_fw-la se_fw-la neither_o in_o produce_v another_o person_n which_o shall_v produce_v the_o holy_a ghost_n this_o observation_n remain_v obscure_a if_o it_o be_v take_v without_o distinction_n that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o father_n and_o from_o the_o son_n also_o the_o grecian_n shall_v seem_v to_o speak_v more_o proper_o than_o the_o latin_n the_o ancient_a doctor_n confess_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o father_n proprie_fw-la as_o he_o speak_v more_o proper_o which_o say_v the_o king_n command_v than_o he_o that_o say_v the_o king_n go_v for_o the_o commandment_n proceed_v from_o the_o king_n as_o a_o king_n but_o the_o king_n go_v as_o he_o be_v a_o man_n if_o then_o the_o son_n be_v a_o inspirer_n the_o father_n be_v the_o cause_n even_o as_o a_o father_n but_o because_o that_o the_o grecian_n do_v absolute_o deny_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o the_o son_n deny_v thereby_o that_o his_o person_n be_v a_o inspirer_n a_o man_n must_v take_v heed_n lest_o he_o fall_v into_o a_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d for_o if_o by_o the_o word_n proceed_v they_o understand_v to_o have_v his_o original_n or_o beginning_n they_o say_v not_o ill_o consider_v the_o father_n alone_o be_v the_o beginning_n the_o divine_n do_v confess_v as_o much_o when_o they_o call_v the_o son_n principium_fw-la quasi_fw-la secundarium_fw-la this_o word_n secundarium_fw-la spy_v the_o name_n of_o principium_fw-la and_o the_o word_n quasi_fw-la show_v that_o it_o be_v to_o speak_v improper_o yet_o here_o one_o can_v speak_v proper_o enough_o therefore_o you_o may_v see_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v say_v to_o proceed_v from_o the_o father_n alone_o in_o diverse_a sort_n the_o which_o the_o church_n of_o the_o east_n do_v regard_n but_o they_o regard_v not_o the_o reason_n wherefore_o he_o may_v be_v say_v to_o proceed_v from_o the_o son_n as_o also_o it_o be_v very_o hard_a to_o express_v how_o the_o person_n of_o the_o son_n be_v a_o inspirer_n without_o consider_v he_o either_o as_o a_o essence_n simple_o or_o as_o beget_v for_o in_o this_o person_n be_v consider_v but_o the_o essence_n and_o the_o relation_n as_o those_o school_n divine_v affirm_v the_o which_o relation_n have_v the_o place_n of_o form_n from_o which_o the_o action_n ought_v to_o proceed_v it_o be_v likewise_o very_o hard_o to_o say_v how_o the_o father_n inspire_v as_o a_o person_n without_o inspire_v neither_o as_o a_o father_n nor_o as_o a_o essence_n nevertheless_o we_o must_v so_o say_v see_v the_o son_n of_o god_n himself_o have_v say_v and_o teach_v so_o as_o his_o belove_a disciple_n saint_n john_n testify_v unto_o we_o which_o hear_v it_o of_o himself_o but_o because_o he_o have_v not_o say_v that_o the_o holy_a ghost_n proceed_v from_o himself_o the_o church_n of_o the_o east_n will_v not_o say_v so_o but_o do_v consider_v the_o father_n as_o father_n and_o the_o son_n as_o son_n and_o they_o say_v with_o their_o great_a doctor_n saint_n damascenus_n 13._o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d the_o father_n
not_o absolute_o promise_v but_o to_o those_o which_o have_v perfect_a righteousness_n the_o catholic_a conclusion_n in_o this_o question_n be_v that_o a_o man_n merit_v not_o proper_o eternal_a life_n by_o his_o good_a work_n although_o that_o they_o be_v worthy_a of_o reward_n that_o be_v to_o say_v that_o they_o make_v a_o man_n fit_a to_o receive_v a_o recompense_n through_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n question_n xvi_o whether_o that_o there_o be_v a_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n or_o other_o torment_n where_o the_o soul_n be_v purify_v or_o punish_v and_o whether_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_a do_v help_v to_o deliver_v they_o the_o east_n church_n nicholas_n 36._o the_o grecian_n do_v deny_v purgatory_n affirm_v that_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_a do_v nothing_o profit_v the_o dead_a villamont_n 21._o the_o grecian_n do_v deny_v purgatory_n but_o you_o make_v they_o amaze_v if_o you_o ask_v they_o this_o question_n see_v that_o they_o believe_v not_o that_o there_o be_v a_o purgatory_n wherefore_o then_o do_v they_o pray_v for_o the_o forgiveness_n of_o their_o offence_n they_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v to_o the_o end_n god_n will_v put_v they_o in_o a_o more_o glorious_a place_n and_o that_o they_o be_v in_o mansion_n where_o the_o angel_n visit_v they_o often_o sacranus_fw-la 2._o the_o moscovite_n affirm_v that_o there_o be_v no_o purgatory_n but_o that_o there_o be_v only_o two_o receptacle_n or_o place_n of_o receipt_n for_o soul_n that_o be_v to_o say_v heaven_n and_o hell_n the_o book_n of_o a_o grecian_a touch_v purgatory_n say_v nilum_n thus_o we_o have_v not_o receive_v by_o tradition_n from_o our_o teacher_n that_o there_o be_v any_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n or_o any_o temporal_a punishment_n beside_o and_o we_o know_v that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o east_n do_v believe_v so_o the_o same_o author_n our_o lord_n in_o the_o gospel_n according_a to_o s._n luke_n teach_v what_o shall_v be_v the_o condition_n both_o of_o the_o one_o and_o the_o other_o say_v that_o lazarus_n as_o soon_o as_o he_o be_v dead_a be_v carry_v by_o angel_n into_o abraham_n bosom_n and_o that_o the_o soul_n of_o the_o rich_a man_n as_o soon_o as_o he_o be_v dead_a be_v carry_v into_o hell_n and_o there_o torment_v and_o also_o by_o the_o bosom_n of_o abraham_n he_o signify_v the_o final_a estate_n of_o the_o belove_a of_o god_n in_o bless_a rest_n and_o by_o hell_n and_o torment_n final_a damnation_n and_o eternal_a pain_n and_o have_v leave_v no_o other_o place_n between_o both_o have_v any_o temporal_a pain_n and_o say_v that_o there_o be_v but_o one_o bottomless_a pit_n beyond_o the_o which_o none_o can_v pass_v which_o separate_v the_o one_o from_o the_o other_o and_o ordain_v a_o extreme_a and_o utter_a contrariety_n between_o they_o the_o south_n church_n aluares_n 5._o be_v arrive_v in_o the_o church_n they_o lay_v not_o the_o body_n within_o the_o grave_n but_o lay_v it_o near_o to_o it_o without_o sing_v any_o part_n of_o any_o service_n for_o the_o dead_a nor_o any_o of_o the_o psalm_n of_o david_n much_o less_o those_o of_o job_n whereupon_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o they_o say_v they_o answer_v i_o that_o they_o sing_v that_o be_v to_o say_v they_o pronounce_v aloud_o the_o gospel_n of_o s._n john_n entire_o annot._n by_o this_o it_o appear_v that_o the_o church_n of_o the_o south_n believe_v not_o that_o there_o be_v a_o purgatory_n because_o they_o themselves_o do_v not_o make_v prayer_n at_o the_o bury_n of_o their_o dead_a damianus_n a_o go_v report_v by_o hearsay_n that_o they_o bury_v their_o dead_a with_o cross_n and_o prayer_n but_o aluares_n who_o dwell_v many_o year_n in_o that_o place_n deny_v it_o peradventure_o the_o same_o damianus_n take_v the_o lecture_n of_o the_o gospel_n for_o a_o prayer_n david_n emperor_n of_o ethiope_n david_n we_o have_v cause_v a_o church_n to_o be_v build_v in_o honour_n of_o the_o most_o holy_a trinity_n where_o the_o bone_n of_o our_o decease_a father_n be_v bury_v who_o enjoy_v as_o we_o hope_v eternal_a felicity_n annot._n our_o prince_n of_o the_o latin_a church_n which_o believe_v that_o there_o be_v a_o purgatory_n be_v wont_a to_o say_v speak_v of_o their_o decease_a parent_n god_n have_v mercy_n on_o their_o soul_n the_o reform_a church_n the_o confession_n of_o the_o switzer_n we_o believe_v that_o the_o faithful_a be_v transport_v to_o jesus_n christ_n straight_o after_o corporal_a death_n and_o that_o they_o have_v no_o need_n of_o the_o prayer_n and_o suffrage_n of_o the_o live_n we_o believe_v also_o that_o the_o wicked_a be_v straightway_o cast_v into_o hell_n from_o whence_o they_o can_v come_v forth_o and_o that_o same_o which_o some_o man_n teach_v touch_v the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n be_v contrary_a to_o christian_a faith_n i_o believe_v the_o forgiveness_n of_o sin_n and_o the_o al-sufficient_a purgation_n make_v by_o jesus_n christ_n and_o his_o word_n very_o very_o i_o say_v unto_o you_o that_o whosoever_o hear_v my_o word_n and_o believe_v in_o he_o that_o send_v i_o have_v everlasting_a life_n and_o shall_v not_o come_v into_o judgement_n but_o pass_v from_o death_n to_o life_n the_o roman_z church_n the_o council_n of_o trent_n 9_o forasmuch_o as_o the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n guide_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n have_v teach_v according_a to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o the_o ancient_a tradition_n of_o the_o father_n in_o the_o holy_a counsel_n and_o last_o in_o that_o holy_a universal_a council_n that_o there_o be_v a_o purgatory_n and_o that_o the_o soul_n which_o be_v there_o detain_v be_v help_v by_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o faithful_a and_o principal_o by_o the_o acceptable_a sacrifice_n of_o the_o altar_n the_o holy_a council_n do_v command_v the_o bishop_n that_o they_o take_v pain_n and_o study_v diligent_o that_o the_o good_a and_o holy_a doctrine_n of_o purgatory_n which_o the_o holy_a father_n and_o counsel_n have_v deliver_v be_v receive_v hold_v teach_v and_o preach_v every_o where_o annotation_n this_o point_n here_o have_v no_o difficulty_n for_o as_o touch_v the_o prayer_n which_o they_o make_v in_o the_o east_n for_o the_o dead_a we_o will_v entreat_v in_o that_o question_n where_o it_o shall_v be_v debate_v whether_o it_o be_v lawful_a to_o pray_v for_o the_o saint_n which_o be_v in_o heaven_n only_o it_o be_v to_o be_v note_v that_o the_o councelle_n of_o trent_n do_v fain_o that_o the_o holy_a scripture_n do_v warrant_v purgatory_n which_o the_o church_n of_o the_o east_n do_v deny_v and_o if_o the_o true_a interpretation_n of_o scripture_n ought_v to_o be_v take_v out_o of_o the_o apostolic_a church_n which_o have_v retain_v it_o from_o hand_n to_o hand_n from_o their_o father_n it_o follow_v that_o those_o place_n of_o scripture_n which_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v allege_v to_o prove_v purgatory_n be_v wrest_v by_o they_o to_o another_o sense_n as_o the_o grecian_n have_v show_v in_o their_o apology_n in_o the_o council_n of_o basil_n and_o the_o author_n of_o the_o treatise_n of_o the_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n before_o allege_v do_v prove_v it_o very_o slender_o moreover_o many_o roman_a catholic_a doctor_n and_o of_o very_o good_a estimation_n do_v confess_v that_o purgatory_n can_v be_v prove_v by_o the_o scripture_n among_o the_o rest_n alphonsus_n de_fw-fr castro_n avouch_v not_o only_o that_o it_o be_v not_o prove_v by_o the_o scripture_n but_o also_o that_o the_o father_n do_v seldom_o make_v mention_n of_o it_o especial_o the_o greek_a father_n from_o thence_o say_v he_o it_o come_v that_o even_o until_o this_o present_a time_n the_o grecian_n do_v deny_v purgatory_n the_o catholic_a conclusion_n thererefore_o here_o be_v this_o that_o there_o be_v no_o fire_n of_o purgatory_n nor_o any_o other_o torment_n where_o soul_n be_v purge_v and_o punish_v and_o that_o prayer_n serve_v not_o to_o deliver_v they_o but_o rather_o be_v superfluous_a and_o unprofitable_a 11_o if_o that_o they_o be_v make_v to_o that_o intention_n question_n xvii_o whether_o the_o pope_n or_o any_o other_o can_v give_v indulgence_n or_o pardon_n to_o deliver_v man_n from_o temporal_a punishment_n the_o east_n church_n ieremie_n patriarch_n gener._n resp_n all_o these_o thing_n ought_v to_o be_v do_v free_o for_o god_n cause_n and_o not_o for_o any_o hope_n of_o gain_n consider_v that_o there_o be_v nothing_o more_o agreeable_a to_o god_n than_o that_o sacranus_fw-la 2_o the_o moscovite_n do_v condemn_v order_n blessing_n priesthood_n prayer_n fast_n indulgence_n jubile_n and_o ecclesiastical_a office_n and_o all_o that_o which_o the_o church_n to_o wit_n of_o rome_n do_v dispense_v with_o by_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o key_n in_o like_a manner_n they_o mock_v at_o the_o obedience_n and_o authority_n ecclesiastical_a and_o yield_v no_o more_o to_o excommunication_n then_o to_o indulgence_n the_o church_n of_o the_o
not_o well_o then_o see_v that_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n in_o the_o sacrament_n be_v change_v we_o must_v examine_v their_o discourse_n to_o find_v who_o do_v swerve_v from_o the_o catholic_a faith_n there_o be_v four_o thing_n in_o a_o true_a body_n first_o the_o matter_n second_o the_o accident_n and_o essential_a property_n three_o the_o form_n which_o the_o philosopher_n hold_v to_o give_v life_n or_o be_v to_o a_o thing_n four_o the_o hide_a property_n which_o depend_v upon_o the_o form_n as_o touch_v the_o accident_n and_o essential_a property_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o lord_n all_o do_v confess_v that_o they_o be_v not_o in_o the_o sacrament_n but_o rather_o the_o accident_n and_o property_n of_o the_o bread_n as_o concern_v the_o matter_n of_o the_o say_a body_n the_o latin_n do_v believe_v that_o it_o be_v invisible_o contain_v under_o the_o accident_n of_o bread_n and_o that_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o bread_n become_v nothing_o but_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o church_n of_o the_o east_n and_o south_n seem_v to_o be_v quite_o contrary_a to_o that_o first_o the_o patriarch_n jeremie_n absolute_o say_v that_o the_o flesh_n of_o our_o saviour_n which_o he_o carry_v be_v not_o give_v to_o his_o apostle_n to_o eat_v from_o whence_o it_o follow_v that_o they_o do_v eat_v some_o other_o matter_n which_o nevertheless_o be_v also_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n moreover_o he_o expound_v it_o say_v that_o it_o be_v as_o iron_n or_o wood_n burn_v which_o be_v call_v fire_n because_o that_o the_o fire_n surmount_v or_o overcom_v and_o the_o mater_fw-la of_o the_o iron_n be_v not_o reduce_v to_o nothing_o as_o concern_v the_o three_o he_o say_v in_o like_a manner_n that_o those_o that_o do_v communicate_v the_o sacrament_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o that_o the_o church_n be_v the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n nevertheless_o every_o one_o confess_v that_o the_o matter_n of_o humane_a body_n be_v not_o reduce_v or_o bring_v to_o nothing_o likewise_o one_o may_v see_v that_o the_o church_n be_v call_v the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n or_o else_o if_o the_o bread_n be_v call_v the_o true_a body_n of_o christ_n this_o word_n true_a be_v put_v as_o opposite_a even_o as_o the_o same_o author_n do_v expound_v it_o to_o the_o bare_a similitude_n figure_n or_o proportion_n and_o not_o as_o refer_v to_o the_o identity_n of_o the_o matter_n the_o church_n of_o the_o south_n say_v the_o very_a same_o they_o do_v pray_v in_o their_o liturgy_n or_o service_n that_o god_n will_v change_v the_o bread_n and_o wine_n of_o the_o sacrament_n as_o he_o change_v the_o water_n into_o wine_n in_o cana_n for_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o water_n be_v not_o reduce_v to_o nothing_o to_o give_v place_n to_o other_o wine_n create_v a_o new_a but_o the_o water_n lose_v his_o form_n and_o that_o matter_n which_o be_v before_o water_n receive_v the_o internal_a form_n and_o all_o the_o quality_n and_o property_n of_o wine_n these_o consideration_n and_o many_o other_o the_o which_o will_v be_v too_o tedious_a to_o recite_v do_v make_v some_o latin_a writer_n and_o among_o the_o rest_n durandus_fw-la to_o believe_v that_o the_o bread_n lose_v his_o form_n and_o not_o his_o matter_n no_o more_o than_o the_o accident_n and_o property_n thereof_o it_o be_v also_o to_o be_v note_v what_o the_o foresay_a jeremie_n say_v against_o consubstantiation_n that_o there_o be_v not_o two_o thing_n in_o the_o holy_a sacrament_n to_o wit_n the_o bread_n and_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o one_o only_a to_o wit_n the_o body_n of_o christ_n give_v to_o note_v thereby_o that_o that_o matter_n which_o remain_v be_v no_o more_o the_o matter_n of_o bread_n but_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n as_o in_o the_o miracle_n of_o cana_n that_o matter_n which_o be_v then_o the_o matter_n of_o water_n when_o it_o have_v the_o form_n of_o water_n be_v the_o matter_n of_o wine_n when_o it_o have_v the_o form_n of_o wine_n and_o which_o be_v more_o there_o be_v no_o change_n wherein_o the_o matter_n continue_v not_o the_o same_o and_o if_o one_o well_o weigh_v the_o say_n of_o the_o father_n who_o believe_v some_o miracle_n to_o be_v in_o the_o sacrament_n he_o shall_v find_v that_o they_o do_v accord_v herein_o also_o they_o say_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o our_o flesh_n be_v augment_v by_o the_o eucharist_n and_o that_o there_o be_v two_o sort_n of_o the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n we_o must_v then_o observe_v how_o they_o conceive_v that_o the_o bread_n be_v change_v into_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n it_o seem_v that_o they_o will_v only_o have_v it_o a_o matter_n be_v it_o that_o it_o loose_v his_o form_n as_o durandus_fw-la say_v or_o loose_v it_o not_o which_o shall_v receive_v the_o form_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o hide_a property_n which_o do_v proceed_v from_o that_o form_n and_o that_o that_o form_n be_v join_v to_o the_o matter_n it_o be_v no_o more_o bread_n neither_o the_o matter_n of_o bread_n but_o it_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n for_o as_o the_o philosopher_n say_v forma_fw-la that_fw-mi esse_fw-la rei_fw-la some_o will_v say_v it_o be_v a_o dangerous_a curiosity_n to_o sound_v these_o mystery_n but_o i_o answer_v that_o of_o two_o inconvenience_n the_o lesser_a be_v to_o be_v choose_v and_o that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o dangerous_a carelessness_n to_o leave_v the_o church_n in_o division_n and_o to_o cause_n christian_n to_o be_v wound_v and_o slay_v for_o want_v of_o teach_v that_o the_o difference_n be_v not_o so_o great_a as_o it_o be_v imagine_v moreover_o the_o learned_a man_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v a_o thousand_o time_n more_o curious_o search_v this_o point_n and_o have_v leave_v themselves_o nothing_o to_o say_v in_o such_o sort_n that_o that_o will_v suffice_v to_o make_v up_o a_o peace_n which_o they_o have_v search_v out_o by_o debate_n among_o themselves_o this_o than_o may_v likely_o be_v gather_v out_o of_o the_o liturgy_n of_o christian_a people_n that_o the_o bread_n take_v the_o form_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o lord_n which_o for_o the_o matter_n and_o accident_n thereof_o be_v but_o only_o in_o heaven_n or_o that_o it_o receive_v the_o hide_a property_n of_o the_o form_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n although_o that_o this_o form_n be_v not_o without_o his_o matter_n these_o faculty_n and_o property_n serve_v as_o the_o say_v jeremie_n note_v to_o sanctify_v a_o man_n and_o to_o make_v he_o capable_a of_o everlasting_a life_n if_o it_o be_v demand_v what_o this_o form_n be_v the_o prince_n of_o philosopher_n answer_v that_o man_n understanding_n be_v as_o fit_o dispose_v for_o the_o knowledge_n of_o natural_a thing_n as_o the_o eye_n of_o a_o owl_n to_o behold_v the_o brightness_n of_o the_o sun_n and_o that_o learned_a fernelius_n begin_v his_o book_n of_o physic_n thus_o when_o the_o spirit_n be_v free_a and_o unbound_a see_v the_o naked_a and_o clear_a substance_n of_o thing_n it_o enjoy_v a_o most_o perfect_a and_o clear_a knowledge_n but_o while_o it_o be_v wrap_v within_o the_o body_n it_o remain_v in_o extreme_a ignorance_n the_o philosopher_n and_o physician_n see_v in_o nature_n sundry_a admirable_a effect_n have_v judge_v that_o they_o can_v not_o proceed_v from_o the_o matter_n which_o be_v one_o in_o all_o thing_n but_o have_v be_v constrain_v to_o confess_v that_o the_o form_n or_o essence_n be_v the_o beginning_n and_o foundation_n of_o those_o effect_n but_o if_o they_o acknowledge_v man_n understanding_n unfit_a to_o judge_v of_o those_o form_n much_o less_o can_v divine_n determine_v this_o effect_n which_o they_o confess_v to_o proceed_v of_o the_o body_n of_o jesus_n christ_n also_o that_o which_o we_o do_v attribute_n to_o the_o christian_n of_o the_o east_n and_o south_n touch_v the_o form_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o lord_n come_v upon_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o bread_n we_o can_v determine_v that_o their_o belief_n be_v such_o for_o they_o resolve_v upon_o nothing_o say_v that_o a_o thousand_o head_n be_v not_o able_a to_o express_v it_o which_o be_v nothing_o else_o but_o to_o signify_v that_o the_o sacrament_n may_v be_v say_v to_o be_v the_o true_a body_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus_n christ_n although_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o matter_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v only_o in_o heaven_n for_o it_o suffice_v for_o a_o change_n even_o in_o thing_n preaexistent_a that_o there_o be_v a_o identity_n of_o form_n or_o else_o of_o quality_n and_o hide_a virtue_n as_o for_o the_o protestant_n though_o they_o hold_v not_o the_o belief_n of_o the_o same_o people_n yet_o they_o have_v not_o write_v against_o they_o but_o much_o against_o the_o latin_n who_o do_v