vpon which the ordinarie Bishoppes of cities were constituted And withall Tradition confirmeth this for there is no Church in the world which nameth not the Apostles before the Bishops yea the Church of Rome preferreth the Apostles before the Popes It remaineth then for vs to search who was the successor of S. Iohn in the Catholike Primacy whether Polycarpus was his successor in Ephesus or Simeon successor to S. Peter in Ierusalem or Albinus of Alexandria successor of S. Marke successor and chosen of S. Peter or Ignatius successor of Euodias and of S. Peter in Antioch or Euaristus successor of Clement and of Linus and of S. Peter in Rome There are two Churches which haue contended herein more then eight hundred yeeres that is to say that of Constantinople and that of Rome The Romane Church saith that S. Peter hath ordained is from God that Rome should haue the Primacie and power to command and that for euer They of Constantinople say on the contrarie side that our Lord neuer spoke any such words much lesse Saint Peter himself and if any such thing had been some one of the Apostles would haue written of it this Article being the foundation of all the doctrine and gouernement of the Church Moreouer Saint Peter himselfe would haue Preached the same and Saint Iohn who succeeded and out-liued S. Peter would not haue stayed in Ephesus Well then you see that all the Churches planted by the Apostles not excepting any one doe testifie after many ages that neither they nor their fathers neuer beleeued nor held that the Primacie by diuine power was due to the Church of Rome but rather that it appertaineth to whosoeuer shall bee chosen and elected by the greater part of the Churches and that the Bishop of Rome alone ought not to be q beleeued much lesse in his owne proper cause In like maner many learned men of the Latine Church doe confesse that the reason wherefore Rome is helde to haue the Primacie in diuine affaires is an opinion of the vulgar sort So that rather to Constantinople appertaineth the Primacie seeing it was giuen her by the Apostolicke Churches which they gaue not then to Rome being one of the last seates of Saint Peter but onely in regard of the Imperiall seate Well then to make this the more intelligible it is necessarie to know how it happeneth that the Citie of Rome now a dayes pretendeth that the Primacie is due to her by diuine right The aboue mentioned Apostolicke Churches doe surmise as followeth and say First that Saint Peter had the first place among the Apostles for he was oftentimes demanded many things by the Lord and he answered in the name of his fellowes ouer whom neuerthelesse he had no iurisdiction nor authority although that some doe thinke that he resigned it to Saint Iames when they were together at Hierusalem after that S. Iames was instituted Bishoppe that is to say after that hee was staied that hee should make his ordinarie residence there Secondly that Saint Iohn during his life after the time of S. Peter had the first place amongst all the Euangelists and Bishoppes Thirdly that he neuer taught that Rome by Diuine right ought to be the Mistresse of the other Churches if he had S. Polycarpus his Disciple and others his successors in Ephesus had not debated so earnestly and obstinately against the Roman Church touching the feast of Easter Fourthly that after S. Iohn the Bishop of Rome obtained by iust title the first place among the Bishops which were vnder the Romane Empire for seeing that the Citizens of Rome then raigned ouer the Inhabitants of other Cities hee had been both proud audacious and vnreasonable which would haue preferred himselfe before their Bishop especially without any ordinance of a Councell Fiftly that the churches of Italy and other their neighbours through the laps of time gaue to the Bishop of Rome not only the first place but also the superintendancie ouer the Bishops neare them in particular for to giue his aduice in matters that happened till a Synode might be had Sixtly that the councell of Nice approued the same and ordained that Alexandria should in like manner haue the ouer-sight of the Churches of Egipt and of Affrica and that the church of Antioch should ouer-see those of the east And after a certaine time because the Emperiall seate was transported vnto Constantinople it was ordained that that Bishop should be ouer-seer of the Greeke Churches and the Bishop of Ierusalem should be admitted to be one of the fiue for Palestina and those fiue were called Patriarches Seuenthly that the Bishop of Rome all this while had the first seat but yet without any vniuersall iurisdiction but rather euery one of the foresaid fiue Patriarches iudged or rather gaue his aduise and opinion till a Councell might be had as euen to this day they of Constantinople although that they call themselues Oecumenicke are subiect to Synodes but yet of Greece onely Eightly that Maurice Emperour of Constantinople would haue taken away the primacie from Gregorie Bishoppe of Rome and giuen it to Iohn Bishop of Constantinople who for a Marke of his place desired to haue the Title of a generall Bishoppe and that Gregorie did oppose himselfe against him least he should loose his place vrging how insolent that Title was and saying that Iohn would vsurpe Dominion ouer the other Bishops which peraduenture was not the intention of Iohn but he on the contrary side to shew that he was contented with the ranke or place of his predecessors called himselfe Seruus seruorum Dei The seruant of the seruants of God Ninthly that Phocas hauing slaine Maurice gaue to the Bishop of Rome which was then Boniface the first seate and Title of Generall or Vniuersall Bishop and yet without any iurisdiction or Dominion ouer the other patriarches which notwithstanding the churches acknowledged him not in that quality Tenthly that Charles the great King of France hauing subdued with armes a great part of Europe The citie of Rome craued his ayde against the Lombards who being ouer come by the same King the Romanes proclaimed him their Emperour 11 That then the Emperors of the East with the consent of the Patriarchall and Apostolicke Churches tooke from Rome the primacy and gaue it to the said Church of Constantinople 12 That then the Romanes seeing that by the Ecclesiasticall law they should loose the primacie began to say that the primacy belonged as of Diuine right to them and to their Bishop and consequently that the whole Church together could not take away from them the first ranke because that Rome is the Sea of S. Peter 13 That after that they of the East had rightly said that hee is successor of S. Peter which is elected confirmed and approued by the greatest part of the Churches in what place soeuer he maketh his residence and that imitateth S. Peter in doctrine and humilitie That the Bishoppes of
Rome haue brought into their church many errours and haue innouated many things without and against the decrees of the councels withall they haue added to the Symbole of Nice of their priuate authority that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the Sonne euen as from the Father That although that the vniuersall councell hath giuen the first seate to the bishoppe of Rome yet did not they beleeue that the church in future time could not take from him this place especially if the church of Rome should fall into any errour as they say she is already fallen 14 That in the meane while the prouinces of the Empire of Charles the great to wit Fraunce Italy Germanie and Spaine remained vnder the bishoppe of Rome as being their nearest Patriark which is the reason that they now go about to perswade men that the Primacie appertaineth vnto him by Gods Law but this should bee no preiudice to other Churches nor to the trueth 15. That the Bishops of Rome enriched with the gifts and Donations of the Kings of France and per aduenture beleeuing themselues to be that which was repated of them haue ouerthrowne both Spirituall and Temporall Monarkes and haue caused to bee receiued in places vnder obedience to them as well the Lawes of their predecessors the Popes made by the Church of Rome as also those Lawes which they themselues from time to time doe adde thereunto in somuch that the Churches of the East South and North with good reason haue opposed themselues against these enterprises The confession and beliefe of the Apostolicke Churches about this Question here in controuersie is this That the first seate which is by diuine Law so farr as is necessarie for the order of Councels and is meete to shew vnitie is by the Ecclesiasticall Law as also the Sea that appertaineth to any such Bishop whome the Catholicke Church shall iudge to be fit and capable of such a charge QVESTION III. Whether Miracles are sufficient proofes that a Christian Nation ought to bee held for a true Church and without errour THE EAST CHVRCHES MArcus Paulus a Venetian The Citizens of the Citie of Tauris are Mahomets but there are some Christians that inhabit there to wit Nestorians and Iacobites Neere to which Towne is a Mountaine which was once remoued out of his place by the occasion that followeth The Sarrazins willing to scandale the Gospel said that it was written If you haue faith as much as a grine of Mustard-seede you shall say vnto this Mountaine remoue hence to yonder place it shall remoue Well said the Sarrazins mocking the Christians if your saith be so excellent cause this Mountaine to remoue out of his place Then one of the Christians feruent in faith spake to the Mountaine with a great confidence Get thee hence The which incontinently remoued in the presence and fight of all the people The very same Author maketh mention of a Pillar hanging in the ayre which sustaineth the Vault of a Church in Sammarchan Vilimont Whosoeuer would see a thing worthy of memorie must goe to a little Towne called Sardinale inhabited by the Christians of the Church of the Syrians where Turkes Sarrazins or Moores cannot dwell but they die before the yeeres end Faber Not farre from the Citie of Muscouia there is a great Monasterie wherein is the Sepulchre of one Sergius an Abbot which Monasterie is very much frequented of the people for it was holden very famous for many miracles that were there wrought whereof it shall be sufficient to produce one Which is that two blind men were restored to their sight there The same Author It is a common thing amongst the Muscouits to enchant Serpents with words and chase away Diuels and deliuer and helpe them that are possessed Thomas Lopes The people of Mangalor say that they went very often to the Sepulchre of S. Thomas which is in their Countrey who wrought among them many miracles The Ecclesiasticall Historie of Constantinople maketh mention that Arsenius was instituted Bishop by the Pope hee being then become a member of the Church of Rome for which cause hee was Excommunicated by the Patriarcke Pachomius a little after that hee died and his soule went with the soules of Arrius and Eutiches hereticks and his body was found black swollen which caused great feare to those that saw him THE MERIDIAN CHVRCH ALuares There is a Sepulchre of one of the Sons of King Abram which they say was a Priest Amongst other miracles which they attribute vnto him they say that the Angels did minister bread and wine vnto him when he celebrated The same Author They attribute the title of a Saint to a certaine King whose name was Balibeta towards whom the people beare such great deuotion that all Ethiope doth runne thither where his body is buried which they report to worke great miracles Idem There is a Monastery called Abba Gariman retaining this name of one which as they report raigned in Greece who hauing forsaken his Kingdome retired to this place to do penance for his sinnes where he finished his daies very holily and they report that he at this present doth miracles THE CATHOLIKE ROMAN CHVRCH GLoss Canon glorios We must enquire of miracles done in the life time and after death And to the end that these may be true miracles foure things are requisite first that they be of God and not framed by arte or by the diuell for miracles are wrought by the wicked secondly that they be contrary to nature as that of the Rodde of Moses turned into a Serpent thirdly that they be not wrought by wordes but thorough the merites of a man fourthly that they be for the confirmation of the faith Annot. Whosoeuer would know more amply the Miracles of the Latin Church may reade the Legends and liues of the Saints THE REFORMED CHVRCH THe confession of the French-men We beleeue that the word conteined in the Canonicall Writings proceeded from God And forasmuch as it is the very rule of trueth it followeth that neither antiquity nor customes nor the multitude nor humane wisedome neither iudgements nor visions nor Miracles ought to be opposed to it ANNOTATION THe East Churches doe beleeue that the Roman and Ethiopian Churches doe holde an erroneous and Hereticall opinion although there are Miracles wrought amongst them In like manner the Romanes doe pronounce an Anathema against all Christians that haue not obeyed them as well against them of the East and South as also the North Church notwithstanding their Miracles the Church of Affricke refuse nay scorne to goe and submit or subiect themselues eyther to the Greeke Church or to the Latine Church notwithstanding their Miracles the Latin church in the foresaid Canon dooth confesse that Miracles are wrought by wicked persons The reformed Church saith that Miracles or the bruite of Miracles ought not to be taken as a Marke of the true church And which is more
Greekes and the Latins in that point doth onely report the sayings and sentences of the ancient Grecians who say that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father and the Sonne But that hath not satisfied his followers which thinke that the modern Gretians hold not the beleefe of the ancient besids some of the Latin Doctors doe confesse that they vnderstand not well the intention and meaning of the Grecians others doe call them Heretickes and Schismatikes The reformed Churches doe leaue this question with the same irresolution We reiect saith Tilenus the errour or as others tearme it the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the moderne Grecians This difference hath beene the cause or at least wise the pretext of the Schisme betwixt the East Churches and the VVest The East Churches who would transport the Primacie to Constantinople pretending that the Pope of Rome abuseth the Church doe take occasion to accuse the Pope vpon this Article that Pope was Nicholas the first by the report of Bellarmine who alledgeth Anthoninus or Adrianus as some will haue it because that he had beene so bolde as to adde of his owne authoritie to the Symbole of Nice that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the sonne and because peraduenture he hath not expounded it fully they of the East haue accused the Latines of constituting two principles and the Latines laying the fault vpon them doe impute vnto them blasphemie saying that they did derogate from the Diuinity of the Sonne of God Lombard and others say that the difference is in words and not in the matter it selfe Peraduenture the Grecians doe denie the procession of the holy Ghost to be from the sonne in one consideration and the Latines do affirme it in another for to know if it be so wee are constrained to enter into very curious considerations of Diuinitie It is therefore necessary to marke that the sonne is considered three manner of waies First as being the Diuine essence and the very same essence with the Father hoc sensu filius non spirat for the actions are of the persons and not of the essence considered apart Secondly the Sonne is to be considered as a Sonne and that formally So the Sonne produceth not the holy Ghost for he which is produced so farre as hee is produced produceth not In the third place the Sonne is to be considered as a person and that is it which S. Austen regarded when he saide that the Sonne hath from the father not onely to be sonne but also to be or his being that is to say to be a distinct person not to be simply the Diuine essence for the Sonne hath the same of himselfe and the person begetteth not the essence but the essence begetteth the person and if the sonne produce not in this maner that is to say as a person then the holy Ghost proceedes not from the Sonne in any wise for as it hath beene said the holy Ghost proceeds not from the Sonn eyther as an essence or as a Sonne Well then if the Grecians say not that he to wit the holy Ghost proceedeth from the essence of the Sonne being simply taken neyther from the Sonne as a Sonne the Latines should not take occasion to condemne them seeing that they say the same But because the Grecians say and that according to the Gospell that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father it is manifest that they denie not the procession of the holy Ghost to be from the Sonne because he proceedeth not from him either as an essence or as a Sonne for if that were so they should denie in like manner his procession to be from the father for the father produced not the holy Ghost as an essence simply for the essence produceth not neither as a father for if he had produced him as a father the holy Ghost should be then his sonne The Grecians doe hold that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the father in such a sort as he cannot be saide to proceede from the sonne And they haue reason to say so because the holy Ghost is in the person and from the person of the Sonne the which the father hath begotten as a sonne and the father begot not a Sonne which had not the holy Ghost and his productiue grace and fertility Likewise the father is the cause the Greeke Doctors do vse this word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 of the holy Ghost both as a person primo per se and as a father per filium But the Sonne inspireth not as a sonne primo per se neyther in producing another person which should produce the holy Ghost This obseruation remaineth obscure if it be taken without distinction that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the Father and from the Sonne also the Grecians should seeme to speake more properly then the Latines The auncient Doctors confesse that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the father proprie as hee speaketh more properly which saith the King commandeth then he that saith the King goeth for the commandement proceedeth from the King as a King but the King goeth as he is a man If then the Sonne be an inspirer the Father is the cause euen as a father But because that the Grecians do absolutely denie that the holy Ghost proceedeth from the Sonne denying thereby that his person is an inspirer a man must take heede least he fall into a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for if by the word proceede they vnderstand to haue his originall or beginning they say not ill considering the Father alone is the beginning The Diuines doe confesse as much when they call the Sonne Principium quasi Secundarium This word Secundarium destroieth the name of Principium and the word quasi sheweth that it is to speake improperly Yet here one cannot speake properly enough Therefore you may see that the holy Ghost is sayd to proceed from the Father alone in diuers sorts the which the Churches of the East doe regard But they regard not the reasons wherefore he may be said to proceed from the Sonne as also it is very hard to expresse how the person of the Sonne is an inspirer without considering him either as an essence simply or as begotten for in this person is considered but the essence and the relation as those schoole diuines affirme the which relation hath the place of forme from which the action ought to proceed It is likewise very hard to say how the Father inspireth as a person without inspiring neither as a Father nor as an Essence Neuerthelesse we must so say seeing the sonne of God himselfe hath sayd and taught so as his beloued Disciple Saint Iohn testifieth vnto vs which heard it of himselfe But because he hath not said that the holy Ghost proceeds from himselfe the Churches of the East will not say so but do consider the Father as Father and the Sonne as Sonne and they say with their great Doctor Saint Damascenus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the Father
not absolutely promised but to those which haue perfect righteousnesse The Catholike conclusion in this Question is That a man meriteth not properly eternall life by his good workes although that they be worthy of reward that is to say that they make a man fit to receiue a recompence through the grace of God QVESTION XVI Whether that there be a fire of Purgatory or other torment where the soules are purified or punished and whether the prayers of the liuing doe helpe to deliuer them THE EAST CHVRCH NIcholas The Grecians doe denie purgatory affirming that the prayers of the liuing doe nothing profite the dead Villamont The Grecians doe denie purgatorie but you make them amased if you aske them this question seeing that they beleeue not that there is a purgatorie wherefore then doe they pray for the forgiuenes of their offences They answere that it is to the ende God would put them in a more glorious place and that they are in Mansions where the Angels visite them often Sacranus The Moscouites affirme that there is no purgatorie but that there is onely two receptacles or places of receit for soules that is to say heauen and hell The booke of a Grecian touching purgatory saith thus We haue not receiued by Tradition from our Teachers that there is any fire of purgatorie or any temporall punishment besides and wee knowe that the Church of the East doth beleeue so The same Authour Our Lord in the Gospell according to S. Luke teaching what shall bee the condition both of the one and the other saith that Lazarus as soone as he was dead was carried by Angels into Abrahams bosome and that the soule of the rich man as soone as he was dead was carried into hell and there tormented And also by the bosome of Abraham hee signifieth the finall estate of the beloued of God in blessed rest and by hell and torments finall damnation and eternall paine And hath left no other place betweene both hauing any temporall paine and saith that there is but one bottomlesse pit beyond the which none can passe which seperateth the one from the other and ordained an extreame and vtter contrariety betweene them THE SOVTH CHVRCH ALuares Being ariued in the Church they lay not the body within the graue but lay it neare to it without singing any part of any seruice for the dead nor any of the Psalmes of Dauid much lesse those of Iob whereupon I desiring to know what they said they answered me that they sang that is to say they pronounced aloud the Gospell of S. Iohn intirely Annot. By this it appeareth that the Churches of the South beleeue not that there is a purgatorie because they themselues do not make praiers at the burying of their dead Damianus a Goes reporteth by heare-say that they bury their dead with Crosse and praiers but Aluares who dwelt many yeares in that place denyeth it Peraduenture the same Damianus tooke the lecture of the Gospell for a prayer Dauid Emperour of Ethiope We haue caused a Church to be built in honour of the most holy Trinity where the bones of our deceased fathers are buried who enioyes as we hope eternall felicity Annot. Our Princes of the Latine Church which beleeue that there is a Purgatorie are wont to say speaking of their deceased parents God haue mercy on their soules THE REFORMED CHVRCH THe confession of the Swizers We beleeue that the faithfull are transported to Iesus Christ straight after corporall death and that they haue no neede of the prayers and suffrages of the liuing We beleeue also that the wicked are straight-way cast into hell from whence they cannot come forth And that same which some men teach touching the fire of purgatorie is contrary to Christian faith I beleeue the forgiuenes of sinnes and the al-sufficient purgation made by Iesus Christ and his word Verily verily I say vnto you that whosoeuer heareth my wordes and beleeueth in him that sent me hath euerlasting life and shall not come into iudgement but passeth from death to life THE ROMAN CHVRCH THe Councell of Trent Forasmuch as the holy Catholicke Church guided by the holy Ghost hath taught according to the holy Scriptures and the ancient Traditions of the Fathers in the holy Councels and lastly in that holy vniuersall Councell that there is a purgatory and that the soules which are there deteined are helped by the praiers of the faithfull and principally by the acceptable sacrifice of the Altar The holy Councell doth commaund the Bishops that they take paines and study diligently that the good and holy doctrine of Purgatory which the holy fathers and Councels haue deliuered be receiued held taught and preached euery where ANNOTATION THis point here hath no difficultie for as touching the praiers which they make in the East for the dead wee will intreat in that question where it shall be debated whether it be lawfull to praie for the Saints which are in heauen Onely it is to be noted that the Councelle of Trent doth faine that the holy Scriptures doe warrant Purgatorie which the Churches of the East doe denie And if the true Interpretations of Scripture ought to be taken out of the Apostolicke Churches which haue retained it from hand to hand from their Fathers it followeth that those places of Scripture which the Church of Rome doth alleadge to proue Purgatorie are wrested by them to another sense as the Grecians haue shewed in their Apologie in the Councell of Basil And the Author of the Treatise of the fire of Purgatory before alleadged doth proue it very slenderly Moreouer many Romane Catholike Doctors and of very good estimation doe confesse that Purgatorie cannot be proued by the Scripture Amongst the rest Alphonsus de Castro auoucheth not onely that it is not proued by the Scripture but also that the Fathers doe seldome make mention of it especially the Greeke Fathers From thence saith he it commeth that euen vntill this present time the Grecians doe denie Purgatorie The Catholicke Conclusion thererefore here is this That there is no fire of Purgatorie nor any other torment where soules are purged and punished and that prayers serue not to deliuer them but rather are superfluous and vnprofitable if that they be made to that intention QVESTION XVII Whether the Pope or any other can giue Indulgences or Pardons to deliuer men from temporall punishment THE EAST CHVRCH IEremie Patriarch Gener. All these things ought to be done freely for Gods cause and not for any hope of gaine considering that there is nothing more agreeable to God then that Sacranus The Moscouites doe condemne Orders Blessings Priesthood Praiers Fastings Indulgences Iubiles and Ecclesiasticall offices and all that which the Church to wit of Rome doth dispence with by the authoritie of the Keyes In like manner they mocke at the obedience and authority Ecclesiasticall and yeelde no more to excommunication then to Indulgences THE CHVRCH OF THE
not Well then seeing that the bread and wine in the Sacrament are changed wee must examine their discourse to find who doth swarue from the Catholike faith There are foure things in a true bodie First the matter Secondly the accidents and essentiall properties Thirdly the forme which the Philosophers hold to giue life or being to a thing Fourthly the hidden properties which depend vpon the forme As touching the accidents and essentiall properties of the body of the Lord all doe confesse that they are not in the Sacrament but rather the accidents and properties of the bread As concerning the matter of the said body the Latins doe beleeue that it is inuisibly contained vnder the accidents of bread and that the matter of the bread becomes nothing but the beleefe of the Churches of the East and South seemeth to be quite contrary to that First the Patriarch Ieremie absolutely saith that the flesh of our Sauiour which he carried was not giuen to his Apostles to eate From whence it followeth that they did eate some other matter which neuerthelesse was also the body of Christ Moreouer hee expoundeth it saying that it is as Iron or Wood burnt which is called fire because that the fire surmounteth or ouercommeth and the mater of the Iron is not reduced to nothing As concerning the third he saith in like manner that those that doe communicate the Sacrament are chaunged into the body of Christ and that the Church is the true body of Christ Neuerthelesse euery one confesseth that the matter of humane bodies is not reduced or brought to nothing Likewise one may see that the Church is called the true body of Christ or else if the bread be called the true body of Christ this word True is put as opposite euen as the same Author doth expound it to the bare similitude figure or proportion and not as referred to the identitie of the matter The Churches of the South say the very same they do pray in their Liturgie or seruice that God would chaunge the bread and wine of the Sacrament as he changed the water into wine in Cana for the matter of the water was not reduced to nothing to giue place to other wine created a new but the water lost his forme and that matter which was before water receiued the internall forme and all the qualities and properties of wine These considerations and many others the which would bee too tedious to recite doe make some Latin writers and amongst the rest Durandus to beleeue that the bread looseth his forme and not his matter no more then the accidents and properties thereof It is also to be noted what the foresaid Ieremie saith against consubstantiation that there is not two things in the holy Sacrament to wit the bread and the body of Christ but one onely to wit the body of Christ giuing to note thereby that that matter which remaineth is no more the matter of bread but the matter of the body of Christ as in the miracle of Cana that matter which was then the matter of water whē it had the forme of water was the matter of wine when it had the form of wine And which is more there was no chaunge wherin the matter continued not the same And if one well waigh the sayings of the Fathers who beleeued some miracle to be in the Sacrament hee shall find that they doe accord heerein also they say that the substance of our flesh is augmented by the Eucharist and that there be two sorts of the flesh of Christ We must then obserue how they conceiue that the bread is chaunged into the body of Christ It seemes that they would onely haue it a matter be it that it loosed his forme as Durandus saith or loosed it not which should receiue the forme of the body of Christ and the hidden properties which doe proceede from that forme and that that forme being ioyned to the matter it is no more bread neither the matter of bread but it is the bodie of Christ and the matter of the body of Christ for as the Philosophers say forma dat esse rei Some wil say it is a dangerous curiositie to sound these mysteries but I aunswere that of two inconueniences the lesser is to be chosen and that it is a most dangerous carelesnesse to leaue the Church in diuision and to cause Christians to be wounded and slaine for want of teaching that the difference is not so great as it is imagined Moreouer the learned men of the Church of Rome haue a thousand times more curiously searched this point and haue left themselues nothing to say in such sort that that will suffice to make vp a peace which they haue searched out by debate amongst themselues This then may likely bee gathered out of the Liturgie of Christian people that the bread taketh the forme of the body of the Lord which for the matter and accidents thereof is but onely in heauen or that it receiueth the hidden properties of the forme of the body of Christ although that this forme be not without his matter These faculties and properties serue as the said Ieremie noteth to sanctifie a man and to make him capable of euerlasting life If it be demaunded what this forme is The Prince of Philosophers answereth that mans vnderstanding is as fitly disposed for the knowledge of naturall things as the eyes of an Owle to behold the brightnesse of the sunne And that learned Fernelius beginneth his booke of Physicke thus When the Spirit is free and vnbound seeing the naked and cleere substances of things it enioyeth a most perfect and cleere knowledge but whilest it is wrapped within the body it remaines in extreame ignorance The Philosophers and Phisitians seeing in nature sundry admirable effects haue iudged that they could not proceede from the matter which is one in all things but haue beene constrained to confesse that the forme or essence was the beginning and foundation of those effects But if they acknowledged mans vnderstanding vnfit to iudge of those formes much lesse can Diuines determine this effect which they confesse to proceede of the body of Iesus Christ Also that which we doe attribute to the Christians of the East and South touching the forme of the body of the Lord comming vpon the matter of the bread we cannot determine that their beleefe is such for they resolue vpon nothing saying That a thousand heads are not able to expresse it which is nothing else but to signifie that the Sacrament may bee sayd to bee the true bodie of our Lord Iesus Christ although it be graunted that the matter of the bodie of Christ is onely in heauen For it sufficeth for a change euen in things praeexistent that there be an identitie of form or else of qualities and hidden vertues As for the Protestants though they hold not the beleefe of the same people yet they haue not written against them but much against the Latins who doe