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cause_n appeal_v bishop_n rome_n 1,804 5 7.3555 4 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A15511 Mercy & truth. Or Charity maintayned by Catholiques By way of reply vpon an answere lately framed by D. Potter to a treatise which had formerly proued, that charity was mistaken by Protestants: with the want whereof Catholiques are vniustly charged for affirming, that Protestancy vnrepented destroyes saluation. Deuided into tvvo parts. Knott, Edward, 1582-1656. 1634 (1634) STC 25778; ESTC S120087 257,527 520

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victor_n have_v excommunicate_v and_o so_o they_o come_v to_o be_v rank_v among_o heretic_n under_o the_o name_n of_o quartadecimam_fw-la you_o may_v know_v what_o opinion_n s._n irenaeus_n have_v of_o pope_n by_o these_o word_n every_o church_n ought_v to_o have_v recourse_n 3._o recourse_n adverse_a haeres_fw-la lib._n 3._o cap._n 3._o to_o rome_n by_o reason_n of_o she_o more_o powerful_a principality_n and_o even_o in_o this_o your_o instance_n eusebius_n do_v only_o say_v that_o irenaeus_n do_v fit_o exhort_v pope_n victor_n that_o he_o shall_v not_o cut_v off_o all_o the_o church_n of_o god_n which_o hold_v this_o ancient_a tradition_n which_o exhortation_n do_v necessary_o imply_v that_o pope_n victor_n have_v power_n to_o do_v it_o as_o i_o say_v already_o and_o now_o i_o pray_v you_o reflect_v upon_o your_o precipitation_n in_o say_v of_o vactor_n and_o stephen_n their_o censure_n 50._o censure_n pag._n 50._o be_v much_o slight_v and_o their_o pride_n and_o schism_n in_o 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you_o say_v that_o it_o be_v comfort_n enough_o for_o the_o church_n that_o the_o lord_n in_o mercy_fw-mi will_v secure_v she_o from_o all_o capital_a danger_n but_o she_o may_v not_o hope_v to_o triumph_v over_o all_o sin_n and_o error_n till_o she_o be_v in_o heaven_n now_o if_o it_o be_v comfort_n enough_o to_o be_v secure_v from_o all_o capital_a danger_n which_o can_v arise_v only_o from_o error_n in_o fundamental_a point_n why_o be_v not_o your_o first_o reformer_n content_a with_o enough_o but_o will_v needs_o dismember_v the_o church_n out_o of_o a_o pernicious_a greediness_n of_o more_o then_o enough_o for_o this_o enough_o which_o according_a to_o you_o be_v attain_v by_o not_o err_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a be_v enjoy_v before_o luther_n reformation_n unless_o you_o will_v now_o against_o yourself_o affirm_v that_o long_o before_o luther_n there_o be_v no_o church_n free_a from_o error_n in_o fundamental_a point_n moreover_o if_o as_o you_o say_v no_o church_n may_v hope_v to_o triumph_v over_o all_o error_n till_o she_o be_v in_o heau●n_n you_o must_v either_o grant_v that_o error_n not_o fundamental_a can_v yield_v sufficient_a cause_n to_o forsake_v the_o church_n or_o else_o you_o must_v affirm_v that_o all_o community_n may_v &_o aught_o to_o be_v forsake_v &_o so_o there_o will_v be_v no_o end_n of_o schism_n or_o rather_o indeed_o there_o can_v be_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o schism_n because_o according_a to_o you_o all_o community_n be_v subject_a to_o error_n not_o fundamental_a for_o which_o if_o they_o may_v be_v lawful_o forsake_v it_o follow_v clear_o that_o it_o be_v not_o schism_n to_o forsake_v they_o last_o since_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a to_o leave_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n for_o abuse_n in_o life_n and_o manner_n because_o such_o misery_n can_v be_v avoid_v in_o this_o world_n of_o temptation_n and_o since_o according_a to_o your_o assertion_n no_o church_n may_v hope_v to_o triumph_v oner_o all_o sin_n and_o error_n you_o must_v grant_v that_o as_o she_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v leave_v by_o reason_n of_o sin_n so_o neither_o by_o reason_n of_o error_n not_o fundamental_a because_o both_o sin_n &_o error_n be_v according_a to_o you_o impossible_a to_o be_v avoid_v till_o she_o be_v in_o heaven_n 23._o furthermore_o i_o ask_v whether_o it_o be_v the_o quantity_n or_o number_n or_o quality_n and_o greatness_n of_o doctrinal_a error_n that_o may_v yield_v sufficient_a cause_n to_o relinquish_v the_o church_n communion_n i_o prove_v that_o neither_o not_o the_o quality_n which_o be_v suppose_v to_o be_v beneath_o the_o degree_n of_o point_n fundamental_a or_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n not_o the_o quantity_n or_o number_n for_o the_o foundation_n be_v strong_a enough_o to_o support_v all_o such_o unnecessary_a addition_n as_o you_o term_v they_o and_o if_o they_o once_o weigh_v so_o heavy_a as_o to_o overthrow_v the_o foundation_n they_o shall_v grow_v to_o fundamental_a error_n into_o which_o yourself_o teach_v the_o church_n can_v fall_v hay_o and_o stubble_n say_v you_o and_o such_o 153._o such_o pag._n 153._o unprofitable_a stuff_n lay_v on_o the_o roof_n destroy_v not_o the_o house_n while_o the_o main_a pillar_n be_v stand_v on_o the_o foundation_n and_o tell_v we_o i_o pray_v you_o the_o precise_a number_n of_o error_n which_o can_v be_v tolerate_v i_o know_v you_o can_v do_v it_o and_o therefore_o be_v uncertain_a whether_o or_o no_o you_o have_v cause_n to_o leave_v the_o church_n you_o be_v certain_o oblige_v not_o to_o forsake_v she_o our_o bless_a saviour_n have_v declare_v his_o will_n that_o we_o forgive_v a_o private_a offender_n seaventy_n seven_o time_n that_o be_v without_o limitation_n of_o quantity_n of_o time_n or_o quality_n of_o trespass_n and_o why_o then_o dare_v you_o allege_v his_o command_n that_o you_o must_v not_o pardon_v his_o church_n for_o error_n acknowledge_v to_o be_v not_o fundamental_a what_o excuse_n can_v you_o feign_v to_o yourselves_o who_o for_o point_v not_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n have_v be_v occasion_n cause_n and_o author_n of_o so_o many_o mischief_n as_o can_v not_o but_o unaucydable_o accompany_v so_o huge_a a_o breach_n in_o kingdom_n in_o common_a wealth_n in_o private_a person_n in_o public_a magistrate_n in_o body_n in_o soul_n in_o good_n in_o lise_fw-fr in_o church_n in_o the_o state_n by_o schism_n by_o rebellion_n by_o war_n by_o famine_n by_o plague_n by_o bloodshed_n by_o all_o sort_n of_o imaginable_a calamity_n upon_o the_o whole_a face_n of_o the_o earth_n wherein_o as_o in_o a_o map_n of_o desolation_n the_o heaviness_n of_o your_o crime_n appear_v under_o which_o the_o world_n do_v pant_v 24._o to_o say_v for_o your_o excuse_n that_o you_o leave_v not_o the_o church_n but_o her_o error_n do_v not_o extenuate_v but_o aggravate_v your_o sin_n for_o by_o this_o devise_n you_o sow_v seed_n of_o endless_a schism_n &_o put_v into_o the_o mouth_n of_o all_o separatist_n a_o ready_a answer_n how_o to_o avoid_v the_o note_n of_o schism_n from_o your_o protestant_a church_n of_o england_n or_o from_o any_o other_o church_n whatsoever_o they_o will_v i_o say_v answer_n as_o you_o do_v prompt_v that_o your_o church_n may_v be_v forsake_v if_o she_o fall_v into_o error_n though_o they_o be_v not_o fundamental_a and_o further_o that_o no_o church_n must_v hope_v to_o be_v free_a from_o such_o error_n which_o two_o ground_n be_v once_o lay_v it_o will_v not_o be_v hard_a to_o infer_v the_o consequence_n that_o she_o may_v be_v forsake_v 25._o from_o some_o other_o word_n of_o d._n potter_n i_o like_v wise_a prove_v that_o for_o error_n not_o fundamental_a the_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v forsake_v there_o neither_o be_v say_v he_o nor_o can_v be_v 5._o be_v pag._n 5._o any_o just_a cause_n to_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n no_o more_o then_o from_o christ_n himself_o to_o depart_v from_o a_o particular_a church_n &_o namely_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o some_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n there_o may_v be_v just_a and_o necessary_a cause_n though_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n want_v nothing_o necessary_a to_o salvation_n mark_v his_o doctrine_n that_o there_o can_v be_v no_o just_a cause_n to_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o yet_o he_o teach_v that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n may_v err_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a therefore_o say_v i_o we_o can_v forsake_v the_o roman_a church_n for_o point_n not_o fundamental_a for_o than_o we_o may_v also_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n which_o yourself_o deny_v and_o i_o pray_v you_o consider_v whether_o you_o do_v not_o plain_o contradict_v yourself_o while_o in_o the_o word_n above_o recite_v you_o say_v there_o can_v be_v no_o just_a cause_n to_o forsake_v the_o catholic_a church_n and_o yet_o that_o there_o may_v be_v necessary_a cause_n to_o depart_v from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n since_o you_o grant_v that_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n may_v err_v in_o point_n not_o fundamental_a &_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n have_v err_v only_o in_o such_o point_n as_o by_o and_o by_o we_o shall_v see_v more_o in_o particular_a and_o thus_o much_o be_v say_v to_o disprove_v their_o chief_a answer_n that_o they_o leave_v not_o the_o church_n but_o her_o corruption_n 26._o another_o evasion_n d._n potter_n bring_v to_o avoid_v the_o imputation_n of_o schism_n and_o it_o be_v because_o they_o still_o acknowledge_v the_o church_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o not_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n and_o this_o say_v he_o clear_v we_o from_o 76._o from_o pag._n 76._o the_o imputation_n of_o schism_n who_o property_n it_o be_v to_o cut_v of_o from_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n the_o church_n from_o which_o it_o separate_v 27._o this_o be_v a_o answer_n which_o perhaps_o you_o may_v get_v some_o one_o to_o approve_v if_o first_o you_o can_v put_v he_o out_o of_o his_o wit_n for_o what_o prodigious_a doctrine_n be_v these_o those_o protestant_n who_o believe_v that_o the_o church_n err_v in_o point_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o for_o that_o cause_n leave_v she_o can_v be_v excuse_v from_o damnable_a schism_n but_o other_o who_o believe_v that_o she_o have_v no_o damnable_a error_n do_v very_o well_o yea_o be_v oblige_v to_o forsake_v she_o and_o which_o be_v more_o miraculous_a or_o rather_o monstrous_a they_o do_v well_o to_o forsake_v she_o formal_o and_o precise_o because_o they_o judge_v that_o she_o retain_v all_o mean_n necessary_a to_o salvation_n i_o say_v because_o they_o so_o judge_v for_o the_o very_a reason_n for_o which_o he_o acquit_v himself_o and_o condemn_v those_o other_o as_o schismatic_n be_v because_o he_o hold_v that_o the_o church_n which_o both_o of_o they_o forsake_v be_v
express_o condemn_v as_o erroneous_a or_o in_o the_o next_o degree_n to_o heresy_n but_o because_o it_o be_v a_o vanity_n to_o muster_v a_o number_n of_o writer_n in_o a_o question_n impertinent_a to_o our_o present_a design_n which_o be_v only_o against_o heresy_n or_o schism_n both_o which_o exclude_v invincible_a ignorance_n i_o hold_v it_o best_a to_o pass_v they_o over_o in_o silence_n 30._o your_o say_n that_o a_o man_n may_v be_v a_o true_a visible_a membër_fw-la 47._o membër_fw-la pag._n 47._o of_o the_o holy_a catholic_a church_n who_o be_v not_o actual_o otherwise_o then_o in_o vow_n a_o member_n of_o any_o true_a visible_a church_n destroy_v itself_o for_o in_o the_o same_o manner_n and_o degree_n neither_o more_o nor_o less_o a_o man_n be_v a_o visible_a member_n in_o act_n or_o in_o desire_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n as_o he_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o true_a catholic_a church_n which_o be_v visible_a and_o bellarmine_n who_o you_o cite_v for_o yourself_o be_v direct_o against_o you_o for_o he_o teach_v that_o a_o man_n may_v respondeo_fw-la may_v de_fw-fr eccles_n milit_fw-la cap._n 6._o respondeo_fw-la be_v in_o the_o church_n in_o desire_n which_o be_v sufficient_a for_o salvation_n when_o he_o be_v involuntary_o hinder_v from_o be_v actual_o of_o the_o church_n and_o yet_o not_o in_o the_o church_n by_o external_a comunion_n which_o proper_o make_v he_o to_o be_v of_o the_o visible_a church_n which_o be_v direct_o to_o deny_v what_o you_o affirm_v i_o may_v reflect_v what_o a_o pretty_a connection_n you_o make_v in_o say_v who_o be_v not_o actual_o otherwise_o then_o in_o vow_n etc._n etc._n you_o may_v as_o well_o have_v say_v who_o be_v not_o actual_o otherwise_o than_o not_o in_o act_n etc._n etc._n but_o such_o small_a matter_n as_o these_o i_o willing_o dissemble_v the_o poor_a man_n in_o the_o gospel_n be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o synagogue_n by_o notorious_a injustice_n and_o therefore_o still_o remain_v a_o member_n of_o the_o jewish_a church_n not_o only_o in_o desire_n but_o also_o in_o act_n you_o say_v athanasius_n stand_v single_a in_o defence_n of_o divine_a truth_n all_o his_o brethren_n the_o other_o patriarch_n not_o he_o of_o rome_n except_v have_v subscribe_v to_o arianisme_n and_o cast_v he_o out_o of_o their_o communion_n and_o you_o refer_v we_o to_o baronius_n cite_v in_o your_o margin_n to_o what_o purpose_n i_o know_v not_o except_o to_o display_v your_o own_o bad_a proceed_n for_o baronius_n in_o the_o place_n by_o you_o allege_v spond_n allege_v anno_fw-la 357._o num_fw-la 44._o apud_fw-la spond_n do_v not_o incident_o or_o only_o by_o the_o way_n but_o industrious_o and_o of_o set_a purpose_n clear_a pope_n libertu●_n from_o have_v ever_o subscribe_v to_o arianisme_n he_o subscribe_v indeed_o to_o the_o condemnation_n of_o s._n athanasius_n which_o be_v not_o for_o matter_n of_o faith_n but_o of_o fact_n to_o wit_n for_o certain_a crime_n object_v against_o he_o as_o bellarmine_n 9_o bellarmine_n de_fw-fr rom._n port_n lib._n 4._o cap._n 9_o affirm_v which_o be_v false_a s._n athanasius_n do_v not_o therefore_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n if_o the_o error_n of_o tertullian_n be_v in_o themselves_o so_o small_a as_o you_o will_v make_v they_o it_o may_v serve_v for_o a_o example_n that_o not_o so_o much_o the_o matter_n as_o the_o manner_n and_o obstinacy_n be_v that_o which_o make_v a_o heretic_n which_o overthrow_v your_o distinction_n of_o point_n fundamental_a etc._n etc._n 31._o the_o proof_n which_o you_o bring_v from_o the_o african_n and_o other_o that_o communion_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v not_o always_o hold_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n have_v be_v a_o thousand_o time_n answer_v by_o catholic_a writer_n and_o they_o be_v such_o as_o you_o can_v not_o have_v choose_v any_o more_o disaduantagious_a to_o your_o cause_n heretofore_o i_o show_v that_o communion_n with_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v by_o antiquity_n judge_v to_o be_v the_o mark_n of_o a_o true_a believer_n and_o indeed_o see_v you_o speak_v of_o those_o time_n wherein_o rome_n stand_v in_o her_o purity_n as_o you_o say_v how_o can_v any_o be_v divide_v from_o her_o faith_n and_o yet_o believe_v aright_o do_v not_o yourself_o say_v whosoever_o profess_v himself_o to_o forsake_v 76._o forsake_v pag._n 76._o the_o communion_n of_o any_o one_o member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n must_v confess_v himself_o consequent_o to_o forsake_v the_o whole_a how_o then_o can_v any_o divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o roman_a church_n while_o she_o be_v in_o her_o purity_n even_o s._n cyprian_n who_o example_n you_o allege_v faith_n they_o 33._o they_o ad_fw-la cornel_n ep_v 33._o presume_v to_o sail_v to_o the_o roman_a church_n which_o be_v the_o chair_n of_o peter_n and_o to_o the_o principal_a chair_n from_o whence_o priestly_a unity_n have_v spring_v neither_o do_v they_o consider_v that_o they_o be_v roman_n who_o faith_n be_v commend_v 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african_a bishop_n the_o milevitan_a council_n refer_v they_o final_o to_o the_o pope_n say_v we_o hope_v by_o the_o 92_o the_o ep._n conc._n mileu_n ad_fw-la innocent_n inter_fw-la epist_n aug._n epist_n 92_o mercy_n of_o our_o lord_n jesus-christ_n who_o vouchsafe_v to_o govern_v thou_o consult_v with_o he_o and_o to_o hear_v thou_o pray_v to_o he_o that_o those_o who_o hold_v these_o doctrine_n so_o perverse_a and_o pernicious_a will_v more_o easy_o yield_v to_o the_o authority_n of_o thy_o holiness_n draw_v out_o of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n behold_v the_o pope_n prerogative_n draw_v out_o of_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o it_o be_v very_o strange_a that_o you_o will_v allege_v the_o authority_n of_o s._n cyprian_n and_o other_o bishop_n of_o africa_n against_o pope_n stephen_n who_o oppose_v himself_o to_o they_o in_o the_o question_n of_o rebaptisation_n wherein_o they_o agree_v with_o the_o heresy_n of_o the_o donatist_n which_o be_v condemn_v not_o only_o by_o the_o pope_n 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contra_fw-la ruff._n apol._n 1._o style_v the_o ensign-bearer_n of_o the_o arian_n sect_n and_o who_o be_v a_o profess_a enemy_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n do_v relate_v that_o s._n irenaeus_n 24._o irenaeus_n hist._n eccles_n lib._n 5._o c._n 24._o reprehend_v victor_n for_o have_v excommunicate_v the_o church_n of_o asia_n for_o the_o question_n about_o keep_v easter_n yet_o even_o he_o dare_v not_o say_v that_o irenaeus_n blame_v the_o pope_n for_o want_v of_o power_n but_o for_o misapply_v it_o which_o suppose_v a_o power_n to_o do_v it_o if_o the_o cause_n have_v be_v sufficient_a and_o the_o success_n show_v that_o even_o in_o the_o use_n of_o his_o power_n pope_n victor_n be_v in_o the_o right_n for_o after_o his_o death_n the_o counsel_n of_o nice_a constantinople_n and_o ephesus_n which_o you_o receive_v as_o lawful_a general_n counsel_n excommunicate_v those_o who_o hold_v the_o same_o custom_n with_o the_o province_n which_o