Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	according_a	law_n	person_n	1,451	5	4.8874	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88948	A reply to Mr. Rutherfurd, or A defence of the answer to Reverend Mr. Herles booke against the independency of churches. VVherein such objections and answers, as are returned to sundry passages in the said answer by Mr. Samuel Rutherfurd, a godly and learned brother of the Church of Scotland, in his boke entituled The due right of Presbyters, are examined and removed, and the answer justified and cleared. / By Richard Macher [sic] teacher to the church at Dorchester in New England. 1646.	Mather, Richard, 1596-1669.	1647 (1647)	Wing M1275; Thomason E386_9; ESTC R201478	144,474	133

judge_n and_o party_n too_o in_o the_o cause_n there_o can_v be_v no_o ceremony_n or_o type_n in_o this_o next_o of_o all_o i_o allege_v the_o word_n of_o the_o same_o reverend_a author_n in_o his_o page_n 10_o which_o be_v also_o allege_a in_o the_o forementioned_a place_n of_o the_o answer_n where_o the_o word_n be_v these_o what_o if_o a_o brother_n offend_v not_o a_o particular_a brother_n but_o the_o whole_a congregation_n what_o if_o ten_o brethren_n offend_v the_o whole_a or_o part_n shall_v we_o think_v the_o offence_n fall_v not_o within_o our_o saviour_n reme_v or_o complaint_n or_o appeal_v here_o that_o the_o offend_a party_n be_v not_o against_o all_o equity_n the_o sole_a and_o final_a judge_n of_o the_o offence_n in_o which_o place_n we_o see_v it_o be_v plain_a yet_o this_o reverend_a author_n count_v it_o against_o the_o very_a light_n of_o nature_n that_o the_o adverse_a party_n shall_v be_v judge_n and_o party_n too_o in_o the_o cause_n and_o that_o it_o be_v against_o all_o equity_n that_o the_o party_n offend_v shall_v be_v sole_a and_o final_a judge_n of_o the_o offence_n and_o therefore_o it_o be_v marvellous_a that_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v say_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v yea_o it_o be_v the_o more_o marvellous_a inasmuch_o as_o both_o these_o place_n of_o mr._n herle_n be_v express_o mention_v in_o that_o very_a page_n of_o the_o answer_n which_o here_o mr._n rutherford_n be_v dispute_v against_o and_o therefore_o it_o he_o have_v not_o remember_v that_o himself_o have_v read_v the_o same_o in_o mr_n herle_v as_o like_o enough_o he_o have_v yet_o find_v the_o same_o allege_a by_o we_o in_o that_o scripture_n of_o ou●s_n it_o be_v marvel_v he_o will_v not_o turn_v to_o the_o place_n allege_v to_o search_v and_o see_v whether_o the_o thing_n be_v so_o or_o no_o afore_o he_o have_v deny_v the_o same_o whereas_o on_o the_o contrary_a whether_o he_o search_v or_o search_v not_o this_o we_o see_v that_o he_o roundly_o affirm_v that_o none_o of_o they_o do_v so_o teach_v to_o which_o saying_n i_o know_v not_o how_o to_o assent_v our_o eye_n have_v so_o plain_o see_v and_o read_v the_o direct_a contrary_n yea_o and_o further_o it_o be_v yet_o more_o marvellous_a that_o mr._n rutherford_n shall_v thus_o write_v consider_v not_o only_o what_o have_v be_v already_o say_v but_o also_o what_o himself_o have_v write_v elsewhere_o i_o will_v mention_v a_o few_o of_o his_o own_o say_n and_o then_o himself_o shall_v be_v ●udge_n whether_o the_o thing_n we_o have_v now_o in_o hand_n be_v by_o he_o advise_o and_o well_o speak_v in_o his_o peaceable_a plea_n page_n 218_o he_o have_v these_o word_n when_o the_o grecian_a church_n offend_v the_o hebrew_n church_n the_o hebrew_n church_n can_v complain_v to_o the_o grecian_a church_n for_o the_o law_n forbid_v the_o party_n to_o be_v judge_n and_o what_o law_n he_o mean_v may_v be_v perceive_v by_o his_o word_n in_o page_n 208._o of_o the_o same_o treatise_n where_o he_o say_v if_o one_o man_n be_v wrong_v and_o see_v truth_n suffer_v by_o partiality_n the_o law_n of_o nature_n will_v warrant_v he_o to_o appeal_v to_o a_o assembly_n where_o there_o be_v more_o light_n and_o great_a authority_n as_o the_o weak_a may_v fly_v to_o the_o strong_a now_o let_v himself_o be_v judge_n whether_o in_o these_o testimony_n compare_v he_o do_v not_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n that_o party_n shall_v be_v judge●_n and_o that_o therefore_o man_n may_v appeal_v from_o they_o again_o those_o word_n page_n 27_o of_o the_o same_o book_n be_v so_o plain_a as_o that_o nothing_o can_v be_v more_o these_o word_n say_v he_o what_o soever_o you_o bind_v on_o earth_n etc._n etc._n must_v be_v mean_v only_o of_o the_o apostle_n and_o of_o the_o church_n verse_n 18._o yea_o and_o it_o must_v exclude_v peter_n and_o his_o offend_a brother_n suppose_v they_o be_v both_o believer_n because_o party_n by_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o nation_n can_v be_v judge_n las●ly_o those_o word_n be_v express_v in_o his_o due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n in_o his_o see_v ●nd_v p._n 338_o 339._o where_o he_o write_v thus_o if_o according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o nature_n and_o nation_n no_o man_n can_v be_v judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n then_o be_v appeal_n from_o the_o eldership_n of_o one_o congregation_n when_o they_o be_v a_o party_n to_o the_o cause_v person_n natural_a but_o the_o former_a be_v reason_n nature_n law_n of_o nation_n ergo_fw-la so_o be_v the_o latter_a in_o the_o assumption_n of_o which_o syllogism_n he_o plain_o affirm_v that_o it_o be_v reason_n nature_n and_o the_o law_n of_o nation_n that_o no_o man_n may_v be_v judge_n in_o his_o own_o cause_n and_o by_o all_o this_o i_o suppose_v t●_n be_v manifest_a that_o the_o thing_n which_o he_o say_v none_o of_o they_o do_v teach_v be_v express_o and_o plain_o teach_v by_o some_o of_o they_o and_o among_o other_o even_o by_o himself_o who_o therefore_o ought_v not_o to_o have_v deny_v the_o same_o nor_o can_v be_v clear_v from_o much_o forgetfulness_n in_o so_o do_v and_o if_o so_o great_a a_o oversight_n be_v find_v in_o he_o i_o hope_v himself_o may_v thereby_o be_v entreat_v to_o be_v tender_a of_o agravate_v matter_n against_o we_o or_o other_o at_o leastwise_o not_o so_o far_o to_o aggravate_v they_o as_o to_o impute_v unto_o we_o matter_n which_o we_o do_v not_o hold_v for_o a_o man_n own_o infirmity_n shall_v make_v he_o more_o equitable_a and_o favourable_a towards_o other_o and_o christian_a reader_n may_v be_v warn_v hereby_o not_o hasty_o to_o receive_v all_o that_o mr._n rutherford_n have_v write_v afore_o they_o have_v due_o examine_v and_o try_v the_o same_o whether_o the_o thing_n be_v so_o or_o not_o for_o we_o see_v through_o forgetfulness_n or_o otherwise_o he_o may_v great_o mistake_v himself_o and_o miss_v of_o the_o truth_n and_o give_v forth_o such_o say_n and_o expression_n for_o truth_n as_o be_v in_o no_o sort_n to_o be_v maintain_v but_o recall_v though_o nevertheless_o he_o be_v otherwise_o a_o man_n of_o great_a worth_n and_o so_o ever_o to_o be_v acknowledge_v we_o teach_v that_o it_o be_v not_o congruous_a to_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n nor_o to_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n that_o christ_n shall_v have_v appoint_v all_o the_o ordinary_a church_n court_v so_o many_o thousand_o congregation_n who_o may_v rather_o cry_v then_o extraordinary_a and_o high_a synod_n to_o be_v the_o only_a ordinary_a judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n answ_n these_o qualification_n and_o limitation_n of_o the_o matter_n of_o party_n be_v judge_n be_v such_o as_o to_o my_o remembrance_n i_o never_o hear_v give_v afore_o now_o now_o indeed_o it_o be_v say_v 1._o that_o all_o congregation_n be_v so_o many_o thousand_o 2._o may_v not_o be_v the_o only_a ordinary_a judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n but_o it_o will_v be_v against_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n and_o light_n of_o nature_n if_o it_o shall_v so_o be_v yet_o former_o it_o be_v deliver_v absolute_o and_o simple_o that_o it_o be_v against_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n for_o party_n to_o be_v judge_n without_o any_o such_o modification_n and_o qualification_n as_o now_o mr._n rutherf_n give_v to_o help_v the_o matter_n withal_o nevertheless_o by_o qualify_a the_o thing_n in_o this_o sort_n it_o seem_v thereby_o to_o be_v still_o grant_v that_o though_o so_o many_o thousand_o congregation_n may_v not_o ordinary_o be_v judge_n in_o their_o own_o cause_n but_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n will_v be_v against_o it_o yet_o for_o some_o congregation_n and_o at_o some_o time_n the_o thing_n may_v be_v allow_v well_o enough_o else_o why_o be_v the_o thing_n deny_v only_o to_o so_o many_o congregation_n and_o ordinary_o if_o it_o be_v not_o thereby_o employ_v that_o some_o congregation_n and_o at_o some_o time_n may_v thus_o practice_v now_o hereupon_o the_o question_n grow_v whether_o some_o at_o some_o time_n may_v be_v allow_v to_o do_v contrary_a to_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n though_o all_o may_v not_o or_o whether_o the_o light_n of_o nature_n be_v change_v when_o there_o come_v to_o be_v many_o congregation_n and_o be_v not_o the_o same_o that_o it_o be_v before_o when_o there_o be_v no_o more_o congregation_n but_o one_o whether_o i_o say_v some_o new_a light_n of_o nature_n do_v arise_v with_o the_o rise_n of_o new_a congregation_n so_o that_o when_o they_o be_v many_o it_o will_v be_v against_o this_o light_n for_o they_o thus_o to_o be_v judge_n though_o it_o be_v not_o so_o when_o there_o be_v but_o one_o or_o whether_o we_o must_v say_v the_o light_n of_o nature_n remain_v in_o the_o same_o one_o congregation_n remain_v alone_o may_v be_v allow_v to_o do_v contrary_a thereto_o but_o

such_o appeal_v because_o such_o assembly_n do_v more_o seldom_o err_v because_o many_o eye_n do_v see_v more_o and_o do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n then_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o the_o great_a assembly_n in_o as_o much_o as_o they_o have_v the_o most_o eye_n do_v of_o all_o other_o most_v seldom_o err_v and_o so_o to_o they_o there_o must_v be_v the_o most_o appeal_v for_o the_o learned_a author_n well_o know_v à_fw-la quatenùs_fw-la ad_fw-la omni●_n valet_fw-la consequentia_fw-la and_o so_o by_o this_o mean_v the_o true_a cause_n and_o reason_n of_o appeal_v lie_v according_a to_o mr._n rutherford_n his_o apprehension_n in_o the_o rareness_n and_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v in_o such_o assembly_n to_o who_o appeal_n be_v make_v and_o the_o cause_n of_o this_o seldomnesse_n of_o err_v lie_v in_o the_o multitude_n and_o great_a number_n of_o eye_n in_o such_o assembly_n it_o must_v needs_o thereupon_o follow_v that_o universal_a or_o general_a council_n as_o have_v in_o they_o the_o most_o eye_n be_v the_o assembly_n that_o do_v most_o seldom_o err_v and_o so_o un●o_v they_o there_o must_v be_v most_o appeal_v which_o if_o it_o be_v grant_v the_o classical_a 〈◊〉_d and_o national_n synod_n be_v all_o by_o this_o mean_v deprive_v and_o stri●t_v of_o 〈◊〉_d of_o ●●●●diction_n as_o well_o as_o the_o particular_a congregation_n the_o synod_n by_o 〈◊〉_d to_o general_a council_n as_o to_o those_o that_o do_v ra●iùs_fw-la c●rare_fw-la aswell_o as_o the_o 〈…〉_z appeal_v unto_o the_o synod_n and_o so_o thera_fw-la must_v be_v no_o entireness_n of_o 〈…〉_z only_o in_o the_o general_a council_n but_o from_o all_o other_o synod_n there_o must_v 〈◊〉_d liberty_n of_o appeal_v aswell_o as_o from_o the_o congregation_n this_o consequence_n for_o aught_o i_o see_v do_v unavoidable_o follow_v upon_o that_o which_o mr._n rutherford_n lay_v undowne_o as_o the_o cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o a_o particular_a congregation_n and_o so_o ou●_n brethren_n by_o this_o mean_n have_v spin_v a_o fine_a thread_n draw_v forth_o a_o conclusion_n which_o be_v every_o what_o as_o prejudicial_a to_o their_o own_o cause_n as_o to_o we_o if_o any_o ask_v why_o may_v not_o this_o consequence_n be_v own_v why_o may_v we_o not_o say_v there_o must_v be_v liberty_n of_o appeal_v from_o all_o synod_n and_o presbytery_n except_o only_o the_o general_a council_n the_o answer_n be_v th●t_v we_o may_v not_o so_o say_v because_o then_o cause_n will_v be_v too_o long_o depend_v a●ore_o they_o can_v come_v to_o issue_n yea_o perhaps_o will_v never_o come_v to_o issue_v as_o long_o as_o this_o world_n shall_v endure_v for_o by_o this_o rule_n they_o may_v by_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n be_v protract_v until_o they_o be_v bring_v to_o a_o general_a council_n to_o be_v determine_v there_o now_o as_o there_o have_v not_o be_v any_o such_o council_n for_o many_o age_n bypass_a so_o it_o be_v very_o uncertain_a when_o there_o will_v be_v one_o assemble_v whether_o ever_o or_o never_o whilst_o this_o world_n stand_v but_o we_o think_v christ_n jesus_n have_v provide_v better_a for_o his_o church_n then_o so_o and_o have_v not_o appoint_v such_o a_o necessity_n of_o appeal_v upon_o appeal_n but_o that_o cause_n may_v be_v determine_v afore_o any_o general_a council_n can_v be_v assemble_v beside_o if_o such_o assembly_n may_v be_v frequent_o attain_v yet_o it_o be_v not_o yet_o clear_v that_o when_o they_o be_v assemble_v they_o have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o but_o only_o a_o doctrinal_a power_n to_o clear_v up_o the_o rule_n the_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n remain_v in_o some_o other_o assembly_n sure_o it_o be_v mr._n rutherford_n thus_o teach_v express_o for_o his_o word_n be_v these_o very_o i_o profess_v i_o can_v see_v what_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_n scandal_n can_v be_v in_o a_o general_a council_n there_o may_v be_v some_o mere_o doctrinal_a power_n if_o such_o a_o council_n can_v be_v have_v and_o that_o be_v all_o due_a right_n etc._n etc._n pag._n 482._o and_o in_o the_o end_n of_o the_o same_o page_n and_o beginning_n of_o the_o next_o speak_v of_o those_o word_n math._n 18._o tell_v the_o church_n he_o say_v thus_o because_o ordinary_a communion_n fail_v when_o you_o go_v high_o than_o a_o national_n church_n and_o christ_n way_n suppose_v a_o ordinary_a communion_n therefore_o i_o deny_v that_o this_o remedy_n be_v needful_a in_o any_o church_n above_o a_o national_n church_n by_o which_o saying_n it_o appear_v that_o he_o count_v christ_n remedy_n to_o censure_n scandal_n not_o needful_a in_o a_o general_a council_n yea_o and_o he_o serious_o profess_v that_o he_o can_v see_v that_o such_o a_o council_n if_o it_o can_v be_v have_v have_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n at_o all_o to_o censure_v scandal_n which_o be_v so_o it_o must_v needs_o follow_v that_o scandal_n must_v be_v censure_v and_o cause_n end_v somewhere_o else_o afore_o they_o can_v come_v 〈◊〉_d such_o end_n to_o a_o general_a council_n and_o if_o this_o be_v so_o then_o how_o can_v that_o stand_v which_o here_o he_o affirm_v that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n to_o synod_n in_o this_o because_o they_o do_v rariùs_fw-la errare_fw-la more_fw-mi seldom_o err_v than_o the_o particular_a congregation_n and_o have_v many_o eye_n do_v more_o seldom_o miscarry_v in_o take_v up_o the_o right_a object_n for_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o appliable_a to_o the_o general_a council_n unto_o who_o notwithstanding_o he_o deny_v any_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o if_o they_o h●ve_v no_o such_o power_n there_o can_v be_v no_o appeal_v to_o they_o for_o such_o purpose_n and_o end_n and_o how_o these_o thing_n can_v stand_v together_o that_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v to_o such_o or_o such_o assemly_n do_v he_o in_o this_o that_o they_o do_v more_o seldom_o err_v as_o have_v many_o eye_n and_o yet_o that_o to_o general_a council_n there_o shall_v be_v no_o appeal_v at_o all_o as_o have_v no_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n though_o of_o all_o other_o this_o cause_n be_v most_o proper_o ●ound_v in_o they_o i_o for_o my_o part_n do_v confess_v i_o do_v not_o understand_v if_o any_o shall_v say_v that_o as_o mr._n ruthe●ford_n do_v make_v that_o which_o i_o have_v mention_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v so_o he_o do_v also_o hold_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n even_o in_o general_a council_n and_o shall_v therefore_o doubt_v whether_o i_o do_v true_o report_v he_o 〈◊〉_d touch_v the_o contrary_a i_o will_v wish_v no_o more_o favour_n of_o such_o a_o one_o but_o to_o peruse_v the_o place_n which_o i_o have_v here_o above_o allege_a and_o then_o i_o hope_v he_o will_v ●nd_v the_o word_n to_o be_v no_o otherwise_o but_o as_o i_o have_v set_v they_o down_o i_o know_v indeed_o there_o be_v some_o place_n in_o he_o which_o do_v look_v another_o way_n as_o that_o where_o he_o say_v it_o be_v by_o accident_n and_o not_o through_o want_n of_o invat●_n and_o intrinsical_v power_n that_o the_o court_n of_o a_o catholic_n council_n can_v not_o in_o a_o ordinary_a and_o constant_a way_n exercise_v that_o power_n which_o now_o we_o be_v speak_v of_o due_a right_n page_n 308._o and_o a_o little_a after_o he_o say_v he_o see_v nothing_o to_o prove_v that_o a_o general_a council_n have_v not_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v a_o national_n church_n yea_o and_o further_o that_o if_o there_o be_v a_o general_a council_n at_o this_o d●y_n they_o may_v lawful_o in_o a_o juridical_a way_n so_o be_v his_o word_n do_v that_o to_o the_o faction_n of_o romish_a pretend_v catholic_n which_o he_o say_v be_v excommunication_n in_o the_o essence_n and_o substance_n of_o th●_n act._n and_o in_o the_o page_n next_o ensue_v he_o say_v this_o of_o our_o saviour_n tell_v the_o church_n be_v necessary_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o all_o church_n and_o court_n of_o christ_n even_o to_o a_o catholic_n council_n these_o place_n i_o confess_v do_v seem_v to_o i_o not_o very_o well_o to_o agree_v with_o the_o either_o afore_o allege_v for_o in_o the_o one_o he_o plain_o affirm_v there_o be_v in_o general_a council_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n to_o censure_v scandal_n and_o in_o the_o other_o he_o do_v as_o plain_o deny_v the_o same_o but_o it_o be_v the_o former_a place_n and_o not_o these_o latter_a which_o i_o do_v stand_v upon_o in_o which_o former_a as_o i_o conceive_v he_o to_o hold_v the_o truth_n so_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v that_o which_o he_o say_v in_o this_o place_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n about_o the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_n from_o congregation_n to_o synod_n be_v much_o infirm_v thereby_o for_o how_o can_v that_o be_v take_v to_o be_v the_o true_a cause_n of_o appeal_v which_o be_v most_o

against_o the_o answer_n it_o in_o his_o pag._n 410._o where_o he_o propose_v a_o object_n to_o this_o effect_n to_o wit_n paul_n exercise_v the_o key_n of_o knowledge_n upon_o barbarian_n and_o may_v have_v preach_v to_o indian_n and_o do_v to_o scoff_a athenian_n yea_o paul_n by_o this_o power_n dogmatic_a rebuke_v the_o athenian_n act._n 17._o 22._o yet_o paul_n have_v no_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v the_o athenian_n and_o then_o he_o subjoin_v my_o name_n and_o cite_v in_o the_o margin_n the_o 43_o and_o 44_o page_n of_o the_o answer_n answ_n this_o objection_n be_v take_v from_o paul_n rebuke_v the_o athenian_n our_o brother_n have_v no_o reason_n to_o propose_v it_o under_o mr._n tompsons_n 〈◊〉_d and_o i_o for_o as_o much_o as_o in_o all_o that_o discourse_n of_o we_o the_o athenian_n to_o my_o remembrance_n be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o once_o mention_v sure_o in_o the_o page_n by_o he_o allege_v there_o be_v no_o mention_n of_o the_o athenian_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o why_o this_o objection_n shall_v be_v propose_v and_o report_v by_o he_o as_o we_o we_o do_v not_o know_v which_o i_o do_v not_o say_v 〈◊〉_d though_o i_o think_v the_o objection_n so_o weak_a as_o though_o the_o author_n of_o it_o may_v not_o well_o own_v it_o for_o from_o whosoever_o the_o objection_n come_v for_o aught_o that_o i_o yet_o perceive_v there_o be_v good_a weight_n therein_o for_o which_o cause_n and_o because_o in_o one_o of_o those_o page_n we_o have_v deliver_v something_o concern_v a_o minister_n power_n to_o preach_v to_o pagan_n in_o general_a though_o nothing_o concern_v the_o athenians_n in_o particular_a as_o he_o report_v therefore_o i_o be_o willing_a to_o consider_v what_o mr._n rutherfor●_n say_v for_o the_o satisfy_n of_o the_o objection_n propose_v as_o not_o willing_a to_o pass_v by_o any_o thing_n without_o consideration_n wherein_o ourselves_o may_v seem_v to_o be_v concern_v or_o aim_v at_o i_o deny_v not_o say_v he_o but_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_n betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v by_o way_n of_o preach_v which_o may_v be_v and_o be_v always_o perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a rebuke_v by_o a_o power_n jurididicall_a of_o the_o key_n which_o be_v perform_v only_o by_o a_o church_n society_n answ_n if_o all_o this_o be_v grant_v you_o the_o objection_n be_v not_o satisfy_v nor_o his_o purpose_n gain_v thereby_o for_o the_o clear_n whereof_o it_o be_v good_a to_o consider_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n and_o how_o this_o objection_n come_v in_o and_o whereto_o it_o tend_v and_o then_o we_o may_v better_o discern_v how_o the_o objection_n be_v remove_v by_o mr._n rutherford_n answer_v the_o thing_n in_o question_n be_v whether_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n of_o jurisidiction_n and_o excommunication_n mr._n rutherford_n his_o scope_n in_o that_o place_n be_v to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o for_o a_o dozen_o or_o 14_o page_n together_o he_o have_v these_o word_n in_o the_o top_n of_o every_o lease_n the_o power_n of_o a_o synod_n a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o his_o medium_n to_o prove_v this_o tenent_n be_v this_o because_o a_o synod_n have_v power_n to_o rebuke_v whereupon_o ensue_v the_o objection_n that_o paul_n may_v rebuke_v the_o athenian_n and_o yet_o may_v not_o excommunicate_v they_o and_o therefore_o enough_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v this_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o dispute_n as_o be_v plain_o to_o be_v seem_v by_o p●●●sing_v the_o place_n and_o now_o come_v in_o the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o the_o objection_n to_o wit_n that_o there_o be_v a_o great_a odds_o betwixt_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a the_o one_o be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o the_o other_o by_o many_o which_o answer_v i_o conceive_v be_v not_o sufficient_a because_o this_o difference_n may_v he_o grant_v and_o many_o more_o may_v be_v add_v if_o he_o please_v and_o yet_o the_o thing_n in_o question_n not_o gain_v nor_o the_o objection_n remove_v at_o all_o for_o what_o though_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o and_o a_o juridical_a by_o many_o yet_o still_o it_o remain_v clear_a that_o there_o may_v be_v rebuke_v where_o there_o be_v no_o jurisdiction_n and_o therefore_o though_o a_o synod_n may_v rebuke_v it_o follow_v not_o that_o they_o may_v excommunicate_v nor_o have_v power_n of_o jurisdiction_n if_o our_o brother_n will_v have_v satisfy_v the_o objection_n he_o shall_v not_o have_v satisfy_v himself_o with_o allege_v the_o difference_n mention_v between_o a_o concionall_a rebuke_v and_o a_o juridical_a or_o synodical_a but_o shall_v have_v prove_v that_o there_o can_v be_v any_o concionall_a rebuke_v at_o all_o at_o least_o wise_a not_o any_o rebuke_v of_o athenian_n who_o be_v not_o subject_a to_o excommunication_n and_o if_o this_o have_v be_v prove_v the_o objection_n have_v be_v full_o remove_v but_o this_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v at_o all_o nor_o once_o attempt_v to_o prove_v it_o but_o plain_o yield_v the_o contrary_a and_o therefore_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v the_o objection_n remain_v in_o its_o strength_n and_o so_o the_o strength_n of_o his_o argument_n remove_v thereby_o who_o will_v prove_v the_o synod_n power_n of_o jurisdiction_n from_o their_o power_n of_o rebuke_v but_o let_v as_o hear_v what_o he_o answer_v in_o the_o word_n ensue_v it_o can_v be_v deny_v say_v he_o but_o the_o rebuke_v of_o man_n because_o they_o subvert_v soul_n verse_n 24._o be_v not_o a_o mere_a concionall_a rebuke_v which_o may_v be_v perform_v by_o one_o first_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v verse_n 24._o second_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o by_o a_o whole_a synod_n 6._o 22._o three_o it_o be_v perform_v by_o a_o political_a society_n answ_n and_o what_o of_o all_o this_o may_v it_o not_o nevertheless_o be_v deny_v that_o this_o rebuke_v be_v any_o other_o then_o in_o a_o doctrinal_a way_n be_v it_o grant_v that_o it_o be_v a_o rebuke_v and_o a_o rebuke_v perform_v by_o many_o and_o if_o be_v grant_v by_o a_o political_a society_n too_o must_v it_o need_v follow_v that_o therefore_o it_o be_v juridical_a or_o in_o way_n of_o jurisdiction_n i_o see_v no_o necessity_n of_o such_o consequence_n nay_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o do_v confess_v as_o we_o hear_v afore_o in_o his_o page_n 393._o that_o the_o specification_n of_o this_o rebuke_n must_v not_o be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n because_o one_o apostle_n might_n himself_o alone_o have_v rebuke_v these_o obtruder_n of_o circumcision_n if_o therefore_o it_o be_v grant_v that_o many_o person_n a_o whole_a synod_n a_o political_a society_n or_o what_o ever_o else_o he_o will_v call_v they_o be_v the_o efficient_a cause_n of_o this_o rebuke_n yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v that_o the_o rebuke_n be_v juridical_a unless_o the_o specification_n of_o it_o must_v be_v fetch_v from_o the_o efficient_a cause_n which_o master_n rutherford_n himself_o disclayme_v moreover_o i_o will_v put_v this_o case_n suppose_v a_o pagan_a or_o a_o christian_a of_o another_o nation_n and_o kingdom_n shall_v come_v into_o a_o church_n assembly_n whether_o the_o assembly_n be_v a_o congregationall_a church_n or_o a_o synod_n and_o in_o the_o assembly_n shall_v open_o and_o scandalous_o misbehave_v himself_o in_o one_o kind_n or_o other_o to_o the_o dishonour_n of_o god_n and_o grieve_v of_o the_o godly_a and_o the_o danger_n of_o corrupt_v other_o that_o shall_v behold_v such_o bad_a example_n i_o will_v glad_o know_v whether_o this_o assembly_n be_v it_o synod_n or_o other_o may_v not_o lawful_o rebuke_v this_o scandalous_a practice_n and_o behaviour_n and_o if_o they_o may_v whether_o it_o will_v follow_v thereupon_o that_o they_o may_v also_o lawful_o excommunicate_v the_o man_n if_o his_o sin_n and_o impenitency_n shall_v deserve_v the_o same_o if_o it_o be_v say_v they_o may_v i_o will_v know_v quo_fw-la jure_fw-la and_o who_o give_v they_o such_o authority_n to_o excommunicate_a pagan_n or_o man_n of_o another_o nation_n be_v only_o there_o present_a at_o that_o time_n occasional_o and_o if_o they_o may_v not_o so_o proceed_v against_o such_o a_o person_n than_o the_o answer_n to_o master_n rutherford_n alledgement_n in_o the_o case_n we_o have_v in_o hand_n be_v ready_a and_o plain_a for_o as_o he_o allege_v first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o a_o rebuke_v of_o many_o even_o a_o whole_a synod_n three_o of_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n even_o so_o the_o same_o may_v be_v say_v in_o this_o case_n in_o all_o the_o particular_n for_o first_o here_o be_v a_o rebuke_v second_o rebuke_v of_o many_o three_o by_o a_o political_a society_n and_o body_n and_o yet_o all_o this_o be_v too_o little_a to_o prove_v a_o power_n of_o jurisdiction_n and_o